DUST Search - The Issue With Shields

All Channels

General Discussions

The Issue With Shields

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Echo 1991 Corrosive Synergy No Context 940	Posted - 2015.09.22 23:49:00 - [91] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: [ But don't you get more out of a weapon with a higher starting damage stat. So wouldn't a damage mod on a rail rifle actually be more effective than say an AR. An AR does more dps, so if anything you get more value from pairing the damage mod with the AR. It benefits Alpha damage weapons more than it does sustained fire. Wanna play eve?
NextDark Knight Hellstorm LLC 858	Posted - 2015.09.23 00:38:00 - [92] - Quote I don't mind the shields where they are : Sramblers are out of controls. Maybe a new shield tool?? Wouldn't mind seeing some kind of triage like tool that removes recharge delay when active. Like a caldari Logi LAV that glows and removes all shield delay while active in a small area. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
Larkson Crazy Eye WarRavens Imperium Eden 309	Posted - 2015.09.23 06:47:00 - [93] - Quote I have to say when I'm not being a logi I play quite a bit Mim commando. I mostly do mid range support/suppressive fire with an assault mass driver and switch to the combat riffle to pick off close range targets. My standard 20k apex suit has something like 440 or so shields with two complex regs for low slots it gives it about a 2 second delay for recharge and just under 4 second depleted delay. I can constantly poke out of corners, pop a few shots off and reload. Within a few seconds my shields are full and I can keep fighting. Admittedly the suit being a heavy variant has a lot more armor, around 380 or so without any plates, than most shield drop suites normally have. That allows commando variants to soak a little dmg above what their shields can take and gives me the time to get to cover. That said without any armor repair mods you get something like 2.5 armor per second on the suite. This kind of means while my shields might be full in under 20 seconds no matter what, my armor takes almost 2 and half minutes to recover the smaller value. Even with just one complex regulator the shields recover is pretty good, while one armor repair mod doesn't really make a huge difference, making repairs still take close to a minute for the 400ish armor. Not to mention regulators are 2k cheaper than armor rep mods and easier to fit. Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician: "Everybody but me--CHARGE!"
Arirana Ancient Exiles. 1	Posted - 2015.09.23 08:00:00 - [94] - Quote Shield tankers shouldn't have a depleted recharge delay, just a recharge delay. This encourages shield tanking on shield tank suits, while the armor tankers are left with the increased depleted recharge delay penalty for trying to dual tank. This will help shield suits at least recover from getting fluxed faster. CPU/PG:HP ratio for shield extenders and ferroscale plates need to be balanced. Currently ferroscales offer more HP, for less CPU/PG cost and no penalty. Not good. Damage mods should become both a high slot module and a low slot module. Reasoning is balance, this is the forums logic is irrelevant. All HP modules, damage mods, kin cats, and code breakers (essentially most of the really useful modules) are PG heavy, the armor suits have much more PG than the shield suits. This combined with OP armor modules and dmg mods in highs give armor tankers too much of a fitting advantage. Either do something about the modules themselves, or the PG on shield suits. The Official Ari QQ Thread
Larkson Crazy Eye WarRavens Imperium Eden 309	Posted - 2015.09.23 08:14:00 - [95] - Quote Arirana wrote: Damage mods should become both a high slot module and a low slot module. Reasoning is balance, this is the forums logic is irrelevant. If such a thing was done armor users should get something in compensation. After all a shield user can at least put a regulator in a low slot, armor users havning nothing useful to put into high slots in terms of armor tanking. All they can do is put in dmg mods, PG extenders or try to buffer themselves better with their weak shields. Something like a regulator for armor users should go into the high slot. Not to mention there are several other mods that are restricted to high or low slots. Myro's are high only, kin cat and stamina mods are low only. Which means armor users are infinitely slower than shield users not just because of the penalty but because they have to sacrifice their HP to put on any speed boosting mods. If shield users feel Dmg mods are unfair because they would have to sacrifice high slots to use them, what about low slots to armor users? And honestly I doubt many shield users would even use dmg mods if they were in low slots. After all you don't get many on most shield drop suites. A dmg mod in a low slot would take away from what regulators you can equip and your potential speed and speed has always been the key to shield users survival. Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician: "Everybody but me--CHARGE!"
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 258	Posted - 2015.09.23 13:20:00 - [96] - Quote Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Arirana wrote: Damage mods should become both a high slot module and a low slot module. Reasoning is balance, this is the forums logic is irrelevant. If such a thing was done armor users should get something in compensation. After all a shield user can at least put a regulator in a low slot, armor users havning nothing useful to put into high slots in terms of armor tanking. All they can do is put in dmg mods, PG extenders or try to buffer themselves better with their weak shields. Something like a regulator for armor users should go into the high slot. Not to mention there are several other mods that are restricted to high or low slots. Myro's are high only, kin cat and stamina mods are low only. Which means armor users are infinitely slower than shield users not just because of the penalty but because they have to sacrifice their HP to put on any speed boosting mods. If shield users feel Dmg mods are unfair because they would have to sacrifice high slots to use them, what about low slots to armor users? And honestly I doubt many shield users would even use dmg mods if they were in low slots. After all you don't get many on most shield drop suites. A dmg mod in a low slot would take away from what regulators you can equip and your potential speed and speed has always been the key to shield users survival. I disagree, if you have both highs and lows capable of having damage mod's, guess what? That's a fourth damage mod you can fit, hell, you could probably fit 8 damage mod's on 1 armor suit for the giggles. Why compensate a suit that'll clearly get more out of something than what was proposed for the shield suits originally? Why BUFF an armor suit that's clearly more powerful at both CQC AND range than a shield suit? When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.23 13:52:00 - [97] - Quote Low slot damage mods is a bad idea as it opens up the whole issue of which side mods are fitted. Everyone that can't make the fit they want is going to be crying for their chosen mod to be on both sides. I can see it now. Armour tankers going "but it's not fair that I have to lose tank to fit kinkcats. Shield tankers are so much faster, I can't even hit them, they just run away and come back with full shields in seconds." Or how about "Armour tankers are completely underpowered because they get permascanned the whole time, and we can't fit dampeners without losing hp. But Shield tankers can run around completely invisible!" It will never end. There is more to the game than fitting tank + damage. Or shall we just declare any complaint anyone's ever had about scouts as meaningless, because, since all that matters is tank and damage, a scout's better scan precision, profile, speed and stamina is worthless? And finally, if you really only care about tank and damage, some shield tank modules go in low slots anyway! Fit your regulators, fit your damage mods in the high slots the regulators don't take up. Deal with it.
Solar Qoio Kang Lo Directorate 259	Posted - 2015.09.23 14:23:00 - [98] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Everytime I post in one of those CPM threads about shields before it gets locked...my point gets glossed over. Does anyone else agree that shield regen/recharge is not the problem with the shield tanking? Shield tanking is not viable cause you are melted by the double & triple damage modded amarr and gallente suits. Not to mention throwing flux grenades are like nukes to shield tankers and they are easier to use than a locus grenade. I'm not familiar with all of the CPM's style of play or preferences but I do know one has been a longtime advocate for armor and has expressed many times that he felt that shields are in a great place (before he became CPM). Now, in Aeon's threads, everyone is agrees on what the problem with shield tanking is? I don't undersand at all. It is a simple thing to understand. Armor suit maintain their primary tank and can stack double or triple damage mods on ARs or laser based weapons (20% damage bonus to shields). How can a shield tanker compete with the damage output if we have to sacrifice our primary tank to keep up with their damage output? In even clearer terms....amarr assault gets to don 700hp of armor with damage mods on a weapon that has a 20% damage bonus to shields. Caldari assault would have a bit over 500 shields if we sacrifice two highs for damage mods. In order to compensate, you see cal assaults with armor plates. Armor tanking on a cal assault defeats the purpose of shield tanking. One plate may be ok but I see 400 hp of armor on cal assaults regularly. Does everyone disagree with this being the big issue or do people agree that the focus needs to lie here? They just need to finally nerf the Overpowered shield based weapons and the Assault RailRifle. Then ppl won't be complaining about being destroyed so when using shield based suits. "If you trip in a hallway you get a nosebleed, if you trip in life you cry." Winner of the Solar's Par-8 Flaylock pistol
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 720	Posted - 2015.09.23 14:52:00 - [99] - Quote All this madness inspired me to try a new take on caldari. Ck0 ass x5 dm x2 ferro x1 reactive Ishukone Never have I seen people melt so fast... Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.23 14:58:00 - [100] - Quote Devadander wrote: All this madness inspired me to try a new take on caldari. Ck0 ass x5 dm x2 ferro x1 reactive Ishukone Never have I seen people melt so fast... Do you know about stacking penalties?

Devadander Woodgrain Atari 720	Posted - 2015.09.23 15:01:00 - [101] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Devadander wrote: All this madness inspired me to try a new take on caldari. Ck0 ass x5 dm x2 ferro x1 reactive Ishukone Never have I seen people melt so fast... Do you know about stacking penalties? No. What are those? /sarcasm Lol don't hate cause I'm rockin 1.31 +5% +15% Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 258	Posted - 2015.09.23 15:12:00 - [102] - Quote Solar Qoio wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Everytime I post in one of those CPM threads about shields before it gets locked...my point gets glossed over. Does anyone else agree that shield regen/recharge is not the problem with the shield tanking? Shield tanking is not viable cause you are melted by the double & triple damage modded amarr and gallente suits. Not to mention throwing flux grenades are like nukes to shield tankers and they are easier to use than a locus grenade. I'm not familiar with all of the CPM's style of play or preferences but I do know one has been a longtime advocate for armor and has expressed many times that he felt that shields are in a great place (before he became CPM). Now, in Aeon's threads, everyone is agrees on what the problem with shield tanking is? I don't undersand at all. It is a simple thing to understand. Armor suit maintain their primary tank and can stack double or triple damage mods on ARs or laser based weapons (20% damage bonus to shields). How can a shield tanker compete with the damage output if we have to sacrifice our primary tank to keep up with their damage output? In even clearer terms....amarr assault gets to don 700hp of armor with damage mods on a weapon that has a 20% damage bonus to shields. Caldari assault would have a bit over 500 shields if we sacrifice two highs for damage mods. In order to compensate, you see cal assaults with armor plates. Armor tanking on a cal assault defeats the purpose of shield tanking. One plate may be ok but I see 400 hp of armor on cal assaults regularly. Does everyone disagree with this being the big issue or do people agree that the focus needs to lie here? They just need to finally nerf the Overpowered shield based weapons and the Assault RailRifle. Then ppl won't be complaining about being destroyed so when using shield based suits. Now hold on a second, why does the ARR have to take a hit with the nerf bat? It's already got a charge up time and a low ROF in comparison to every other weapon except the RR itself. Not to mention the ARR is one of the anti armor weapon's, nerfing that nerf's anti armor weapon's which are pretty insufficient unless your enemies are standing completely still. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.23 15:17:00 - [103] - Quote Devadander wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Devadander wrote: All this madness inspired me to try a new take on caldari. Ck0 ass x5 dm x2 ferro x1 reactive Ishukone Never have I seen people melt so fast... Do you know about stacking penalties? No. What are those? /sarcasm Lol don't hate cause I'm rockin 1.31 +5% +15% Fair enough, just checking. I think you mean 1.21 + 5% + 15% then.
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.09.23 15:17:00 - [104] - Quote Arirana wrote: Shield tankers shouldn't have a depleted recharge delay, just a recharge delay. This encourages shield tanking on shield tank suits, while the armor tankers are left with the increased depleted recharge delay penalty for trying to dual tank. This will help shield suits at least recover from getting fluxed faster. CPU/PG:HP ratio for shield extenders and ferroscale plates need to be balanced. Currently ferroscales offer more HP, for less CPU/PG cost and no penalty. Not good. Damage mods should become both a high slot module and a low slot module. Reasoning is balance, this is the forums logic is irrelevant. All HP modules, damage mods, kin cats, and code breakers (essentially most of the really useful modules) are PG heavy, the armor suits have much more PG than the shield suits. This combined with OP armor modules and dmg mods in highs give armor tankers too much of a fitting advantage. Either do something about the modules themselves, or the PG on shield suits. Good stuff here. Basically, all suits should have the ability to fit for shield tank or armor tank. Then, base stats could fill the void and make shield or armor tanking on a suit more viable over others. So while you could armor tank a cal assault, it wouldn't be nearly as effective as it would shield tanking it. IE, less emphasis on PG/CPU and utility slot placements as a balancing point, and more on the getting base stats where they need to be to emphasis strengths and weaknesses.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.23 15:19:00 - [105] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: Now hold on a second, why does the ARR have to take a hit with the nerf bat? It's already got a charge up time and a low ROF in comparison to every other weapon except the RR itself. Not to mention the ARR is one of the anti armor weapon's, nerfing that nerf's anti armor weapon's which are pretty insufficient unless your enemies are standing completely still. Judging by the fact everyone is using it, it seems the ARR is the best weapon in the game at the moment. Might just be because there is more armour tanking going on though.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 720	Posted - 2015.09.23 15:20:00 - [106] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Devadander wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Devadander wrote: All this madness inspired me to try a new take on caldari. Ck0 ass x5 dm x2 ferro x1 reactive Ishukone Never have I seen people melt so fast... Do you know about stacking penalties? No. What are those? /sarcasm Lol don't hate cause I'm rockin 1.31 +5% +15% Fair enough, just checking. I think you mean 1.21 + 5% + 15% then. 1.31 I'm at work so I can't check, but I'm 99% sure. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.23 15:22:00 - [107] - Quote Devadander wrote: 1.31 I'm at work so I can't check, but I'm 99% sure. Stacking penalty calculator Five 7% bonus modules gives you a bonus of 21%.
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 193	Posted - 2015.09.23 15:28:00 - [108] - Quote Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Arirana wrote: Damage mods should become both a high slot module and a low slot module. Reasoning is balance, this is the forums logic is irrelevant. If such a thing was done armor users should get something in compensation. After all a shield user can at least put a regulator in a low slot, armor users havning nothing useful to put into high slots in terms of armor tanking. All they can do is put in dmg mods, PG extenders or try to buffer themselves better with their weak shields. Something like a regulator for armor users should go into the high slot. Not to mention there are several other mods that are restricted to high or low slots. Myro's are high only, kin cat and stamina mods are low only. Which means armor users are infinitely slower than shield users not just because of the penalty but because they have to sacrifice their HP to put on any speed boosting mods. If shield users feel Dmg mods are unfair because they would have to sacrifice high slots to use them, what about low slots to armor users? And honestly I doubt many shield users would even use dmg mods if they were in low slots. After all you don't get many on most shield drop suites. A dmg mod in a low slot would take away from what regulators you can equip and your potential speed and speed has always been the key to shield users survival. No in many cases shield users don't "get to" put a regulator in their low slot... they have to, and regs are pretty expensive to fit. Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion. I bring the light.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 258	Posted - 2015.09.23 15:47:00 - [109] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Zan Azikuchi wrote: Now hold on a second, why does the ARR have to take a hit with the nerf bat? It's already got a charge up time and a low ROF in comparison to every other weapon except the RR itself. Not to mention the ARR is one of the anti armor weapon's, nerfing that nerf's anti armor weapon's which are pretty insufficient unless your enemies are standing completely still. Judging by the fact everyone is using it, it seems the ARR is the best weapon in the game at the moment. Might just be because there is more armour tanking going on though. But even then, the ACR, as I've used, is just as capable, if not more so, as an anti armor weapon, simply because it can shoot on the dime and rip through shield's just as fast as ARR. Rather not get stuck with the ACR as my only viable option against armor fit's. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 217	Posted - 2015.09.23 17:19:00 - [110] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Everytime I post in one of those CPM threads about shields before it gets locked...my point gets glossed over. Does anyone else agree that shield regen/recharge is not the problem with the shield tanking? Shield tanking is not viable cause you are melted by the double & triple damage modded amarr and gallente suits. Not to mention throwing flux grenades are like nukes to shield tankers and they are easier to use than a locus grenade. I'm not familiar with all of the CPM's style of play or preferences but I do know one has been a longtime advocate for armor and has expressed many times that he felt that shields are in a great place (before he became CPM). Now, in Aeon's threads, everyone is agrees on what the problem with shield tanking is? I don't undersand at all. It is a simple thing to understand. Armor suit maintain their primary tank and can stack double or triple damage mods on ARs or laser based weapons (20% damage bonus to shields). How can a shield tanker compete with the damage output if we have to sacrifice our primary tank to keep up with their damage output? In even clearer terms....amarr assault gets to don 700hp of armor with damage mods on a weapon that has a 20% damage bonus to shields. Caldari assault would have a bit over 500 shields if we sacrifice two highs for damage mods. In order to compensate, you see cal assaults with armor plates. Armor tanking on a cal assault defeats the purpose of shield tanking. One plate may be ok but I see 400 hp of armor on cal assaults regularly. Does everyone disagree with this being the big issue or do people agree that the focus needs to lie here? Got to agree. The basic shield mechanic feels fine. The Getting melted by Scramblers and CRs really does feel like the issue. There is a reason the kill feed if full of three guns, Carthium/Viziam/Boundless. They are the current OP selection. You would think with all the armor that RRs would be on top of the world. The issue is that those three are so OP for the moment that they get ran over dedicated Armor shredders. I would like to see the threshold increased, but otherwise the regen seems fine. In truth, all I have seen from the options presented so far are basically ways to make the Min suit even more broken. PG/CPU costs are out of line and armor tanking is much more beneficial because you get damage and HPs. Plus with a scrambler you get range. I find myself running a lot more Am suits these days because of it. If I run my cal it just gets melted faster than I can step back into a doorway. The regen does not matter if you are dead in 0.5 seconds. It only matters if you can actually survive an encounter, and right not the armor tankers have time to turn around and melt you before you can even kill them from behind. You take almost a full clip of ARR to kill an Am Assault. They take less than 20% of a clip to do the same to a Cal assault. That's the issue. Not regen rates. I want to survive the first fight. Then I can worry about hiding to regen.

Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.09.23 17:32:00 - [111] - Quote I agree with Aeon. The fact that shield stats are all over the place needs correcting. Look at the Amarr sentinel: it has a better depleted recharge delay than the Minmatar sentinel, a dedicated shield suit. And it has better delays than the Gallente Assault. Why? It really looks like numbers were just drawn out of a hat when it comes to recharge delays and recharge rate. Aeon's proposal smooths that all out into something logical that we can build on. Just like Rattati did with the speed/ehp scale. Remember all the crying about that? Remember how unfounded it all was? Same thing here. This gives us a logical progression with which we can redo modules and we can more easily predict how they will function on various suits. When a shield regulator is of more benefit on an Amarr Sentinel then a Minmatar Sentinel, there is a huge problem. Seriously, someone show me how the proposal is going to make any armor suit better at shield tanking than an equivalent shield suit. Put your money where your mouth is: I want to see numbers. Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.23 18:29:00 - [112] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I agree with Aeon. The fact that shield stats are all over the place needs correcting. Look at the Amarr sentinel: it has a better depleted recharge delay than the Minmatar sentinel, a dedicated shield suit. And it has better delays than the Gallente Assault. Why? It really looks like numbers were just drawn out of a hat when it comes to recharge delays and recharge rate. Aeon's proposal smooths that all out into something logical that we can build on. Just like Rattati did with the speed/ehp scale. Remember all the crying about that? Remember how unfounded it all was? Same thing here. This gives us a logical progression with which we can redo modules and we can more easily predict how they will function on various suits. When a shield regulator is of more benefit on an Amarr Sentinel then a Minmatar Sentinel, there is a huge problem. Seriously, someone show me how the proposal is going to make any armor suit better at shield tanking than an equivalent shield suit. Put your money where your mouth is: I want to see numbers. This is one thing that immediately annoyed me about the CPM shield proposal. It starts by saying there is no pattern or order to the current shield regen stats. This is not true, there is a clear pattern, just some weird anomalies. So the Amarr shield depleted delay being 1 second shorter than Minmatar doesn't make sense. I agree. That doesn't mean the whole system is random. The weird bits can be sorted out, but the whole current pattern doesn't necessarily need to be changed. About the speed/hp scale. Rattati changed this considerably based on community feedback. Yes, a lot of the feedback was unfounded panic. However, one thing that was argued well and voiced by a lot of the community was opposition to having assault suits nerfed onto the speed/hp scale. Consequently Rattati nerfed assault speed far less than originally proposed so that assaults alone sit above the speed/hp curve. A situation that most people are happy with, and finally demonstrates a specific attribute that assaults have over other suits. So community based feedback on stat relationships are not always unfounded. People aren't worried about armour suits shield tanking better than shield suits. They are worried about armour suits armour tanking on top of a reasonable shield tank, without even fitting any shield modules. It's not something I'm too concerned about myself. Though I am a little worried that we may see more dual tanking due to better shields on armour suits, and a diminished need for regulators on shield suits. Though I can't say for sure that will happen.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.23 18:36:00 - [113] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Got to agree. The basic shield mechanic feels fine. The Getting melted by Scramblers and CRs really does feel like the issue. There is a reason the kill feed if full of three guns, Carthium/Viziam/Boundless. They are the current OP selection. You would think with all the armor that RRs would be on top of the world. The issue is that those three are so OP for the moment that they get ran over dedicated Armor shredders. I would like to see the threshold increased, but otherwise the regen seems fine. In truth, all I have seen from the options presented so far are basically ways to make the Min suit even more broken. PG/CPU costs are out of line and armor tanking is much more beneficial because you get damage and HPs. Plus with a scrambler you get range. I find myself running a lot more Am suits these days because of it. If I run my cal it just gets melted faster than I can step back into a doorway. The regen does not matter if you are dead in 0.5 seconds. It only matters if you can actually survive an encounter, and right not the armor tankers have time to turn around and melt you before you can even kill them from behind. You take almost a full clip of ARR to kill an Am Assault. They take less than 20% of a clip to do the same to a Cal assault. That's the issue. Not regen rates. I want to survive the first fight. Then I can worry about hiding to regen. Weapon damage profiles ARRs are seem to be the most used weapon by the top slayers. The ARR has the second most damage per mag after the AScR. Combat rifles OP? The fact that nobody seems to be able to agree which weapons are OP or not, let alone what damage profiles things have, suggests concerns about unbalanced weapons are best ignored until Rattati posts the latest kill/spawn or usage data.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 225	Posted - 2015.09.23 19:44:00 - [114] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Got to agree. The basic shield mechanic feels fine. The Getting melted by Scramblers and CRs really does feel like the issue. There is a reason the kill feed if full of three guns, Carthium/Viziam/Boundless. They are the current OP selection. You would think with all the armor that RRs would be on top of the world. The issue is that those three are so OP for the moment that they get ran over dedicated Armor shredders. I would like to see the threshold increased, but otherwise the regen seems fine. In truth, all I have seen from the options presented so far are basically ways to make the Min suit even more broken. PG/CPU costs are out of line and armor tanking is much more beneficial because you get damage and HPs. Plus with a scrambler you get range. I find myself running a lot more Am suits these days because of it. If I run my cal it just gets melted faster than I can step back into a doorway. The regen does not matter if you are dead in 0.5 seconds. It only matters if you can actually survive an encounter, and right not the armor tankers have time to turn around and melt you before you can even kill them from behind. You take almost a full clip of ARR to kill an Am Assault. They take less than 20% of a clip to do the same to a Cal assault. That's the issue. Not regen rates. I want to survive the first fight. Then I can worry about hiding to regen. Weapon damage profiles ARRs are seem to be the most used weapon by the top slayers. The ARR has the second most damage per mag after the AScR. Combat rifles OP? The fact that nobody seems to be able to agree which weapons are OP or not, let alone what damage profiles things have, suggests concerns about unbalanced weapons are best ignored until Rattati posts the latest kill/spawn or usage data. Top slayers are slaying the armor tankers..so they use the ARR, but in truth I see more of them with Scramblers than ARR. The kill feed in any game I am in has 4x the scramblers than ARRs. As for which guns are OP, I agree it seems to be based on which suits you prefer. I will say that when I run my scramblers I can see the power level over my RRs. The ARR takes much more time to melt any suit. If they have a shield it is painfully slow. On the other hand if I catch an armor tanker in the open its GG for them. The issue is that I have to catch them in the open. The scrambler does more work in a charge shot and two trigger pulls than half the ARR's clip. They simply don't have time to hide when I use the Scramblers. The ARR is not even in a class with the charge shot of a Viziam or the sustained fire of a Carhium. As a player that has both maxed and uses both I will tell you the ARR is not half he gun the AScR is. It is good, but not by ant means broken, and in the current meta the ASCR is beasty as well. As for being OP, I'm not so sure it is. It's probably just the current metagame.
Vesta Opalus Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.09.23 19:53:00 - [115] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Does everyone disagree with this being the big issue or do people agree that the focus needs to lie here? I agree with you that regen is not the only issue causing shield suits to be weak, however it is a big issue for some suits (caldari commando in particular is very poor mainly due to the inherent weaknesses of the commando but also particularly for that suit, the shield regen is critically underpowered). Overall though the regen of shield suits themselves is not a big deal in the armor v. shield balance. Other problems that cause issues in the meta: Armor regen is actually far better than shield regen with team support (equipment is a huge spoiler here, and allows armor regen at rediculous rates even under fire). HP pools are generally higher and have lower fitting requirements compared to shield HP. Shield suits secondary tank (aka armor HP) regens incredibly slow without fitting some armor rep modules, this is not the case for shields on armor based suits, which get their shields back in ~20 seconds or so. You have to fit shield regen in low slots, which makes it harder to fit dampening, speed, cardiac, etc modules. You dont see this mirrored on the armor suit side, they never have trouble fitting myos, dmg mods, precision, etc. Shield energizer and recharger modules have absolutely bullshit CPU requirements. **** this crap. Tactical weapons are overpowered. Particularly the Scrambler rifle on Amarr Assault, but also the tactical AR on any suit. These weapons in addition to being overpowered in general, also have profile bonus to damaging shield HP, so they are disproportionately overpowered against shield suits. This means even my 700 shield HP Cal Sentinel can have his primary tank blown away in half a second, with enough shots before overheat to blast away the 500 or so armor HP left over before you can even turn around and react. Laser Rifle is kind of OP against shields as well, though this is not even remotely as bad as the tactical weapons, it can make long distance skirmishing, which shield suits are supposed to accel at, a complete non-starter. There might be more issues but I cant think of the rest at this point, enjoy! OH I remembered another one: CPU heavy fitting on shield suits results in inefficient suits because there are no PG heavy/CPU light modules to fit to fill out a fitting. So you end up downgrading modules you dont want to downgrade so you can fill out those last few slots. Meanwhile on armor suits you have PG nill modules like precision, dampeners, and some very PG light modules as well that can all be fitted once you get close to maxing your PG out. This results in a general fitting imbalance between shield and armor suits, and its particularly bad for low tier shield suits since they dont have large quantities of CPU to lessen the impact.
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 1	Posted - 2015.09.23 19:53:00 - [116] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Got to agree. The basic shield mechanic feels fine. The Getting melted by Scramblers and CRs really does feel like the issue. There is a reason the kill feed if full of three guns, Carthium/Viziam/Boundless. They are the current OP selection. You would think with all the armor that RRs would be on top of the world. The issue is that those three are so OP for the moment that they get ran over dedicated Armor shredders. I would like to see the threshold increased, but otherwise the regen seems fine. In truth, all I have seen from the options presented so far are basically ways to make the Min suit even more broken. PG/CPU costs are out of line and armor tanking is much more beneficial because you get damage and HPs. Plus with a scrambler you get range. I find myself running a lot more Am suits these days because of it. If I run my cal it just gets melted faster than I can step back into a doorway. The regen does not matter if you are dead in 0.5 seconds. It only matters if you can actually survive an encounter, and right not the armor tankers have time to turn around and melt you before you can even kill them from behind. You take almost a full clip of ARR to kill an Am Assault. They take less than 20% of a clip to do the same to a Cal assault. That's the issue. Not regen rates. I want to survive the first fight. Then I can worry about hiding to regen. Weapon damage profiles ARRs are seem to be the most used weapon by the top slayers. The ARR has the second most damage per mag after the AScR. Combat rifles OP? The fact that nobody seems to be able to agree which weapons are OP or not, let alone what damage profiles things have, suggests concerns about unbalanced weapons are best ignored until Rattati posts the latest kill/spawn or usage data. Iv'e always used the ARR because it gets the job done at long, medium, and close range compared to the other rifles that are "supposed to be superior" to one another at different ranges. A slayer will run the things that are able to do everything with out giving a hindrace to different play styles. To me all rifles should have long ranges. If you want to be a close quarters guy get yourself a shotgun or a submachine gun. That is how all FPS have always been. Since this game has to follow a certain lore that is incompatible with FPS gameplay we can not advance anywhere. K+öL.2013.ae.SEP. Slayer of baby snakes.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.23 20:09:00 - [117] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: Iv'e always used the ARR because it gets the job done at long, medium, and close range compared to the other rifles that are "supposed to be superior" to one another at different ranges. A slayer will run the things that are able to do everything with out giving a hindrace to different play styles. To me all rifles should have long ranges. If you want to be a close quarters guy get yourself a shotgun or a submachine gun. That is how all FPS have always been. Since this game has to follow a certain lore that is incompatible with FPS gameplay we can not advance anywhere. The ARR's clearly a good weapon. So are the scramblers. The AScr is probably a bit OP. I really don't think rifle balance is much of an issue at the moment. And the AR does actually have quite good range. Just not compared to the other rifles. It's much longer than a shotgun or even an SMG.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 12	Posted - 2015.09.23 21:43:00 - [118] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: People aren't worried about armour suits shield tanking better than shield suits. They are worried about armour suits armour tanking on top of a reasonable shield tank, without even fitting any shield modules. It's not something I'm too concerned about myself. Though I am a little worried that we may see more dual tanking due to better shields on armour suits, and a diminished need for regulators on shield suits. Though I can't say for sure that will happen. What bothers me, and has always bothered me about HP mods, is that they are set on opposite sides of the Slot layout. To my mind, they should have been on the same side. This would have lead to more of a sacrifice in terms of what kind of role you wanted to play. If you wanted to dual tank, you couldn't significantly do so. I think this should have been a design consideration from the get go for all related modules as well, like Precision and Profile as well, but primarily with regard to HP modules. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.23 22:40:00 - [119] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: People aren't worried about armour suits shield tanking better than shield suits. They are worried about armour suits armour tanking on top of a reasonable shield tank, without even fitting any shield modules. It's not something I'm too concerned about myself. Though I am a little worried that we may see more dual tanking due to better shields on armour suits, and a diminished need for regulators on shield suits. Though I can't say for sure that will happen. What bothers me, and has always bothered me about HP mods, is that they are set on opposite sides of the Slot layout. To my mind, they should have been on the same side. This would have lead to more of a sacrifice in terms of what kind of role you wanted to play. If you wanted to dual tank, you couldn't significantly do so. I think this should have been a design consideration from the get go for all related modules as well, like Precision and Profile as well, but primarily with regard to HP modules. I completely agree with this. If we could rewrite the whole system, I'd definitely want all tank and damage modules on the same side. It would even make sense to put them all in the high slots. I'm mean, they are referred to as "high powered" and "low powered" slots (I believe). Surely it makes sense that tank and damage mods use high levels of power. You could even make it so that the high slot modules all take up a lot of PG. These are all the sorts of things that help the new player experience by making suit fitting more intuitive. There would be no need for racial slots layouts either. And you could do stuff like emphasise roles by giving assaults more highs than lows, and scouts and logis more lows than highs, for example. Stuff to consider for the next iteration of the game perhaps. Probably too much of a rewrite for Dust on PS3.
Genral69 death RAT PATROL INC. 745	Posted - 2015.09.23 22:42:00 - [120] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: [img]http://i.imgur.com/wIXicea.png[/img] This would be true if flux w worked all the time , half the time they hit the target and only tale a very small amount of there shield off https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread



Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.