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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.28 18:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is a simple question.
Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work?
Not trolling, and not judging.
Put your two cents here.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
5
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Posted - 2015.08.28 18:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:This is a simple question.
Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work?
Not trolling, and not judging.
Put your two cents here.
Very interested in seeing the feedback this thread gets.
CPM mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19
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Posted - 2015.08.28 19:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
I don't want to visit problems caused by the Amarr logistics for a class >< as a slot issue. Rather that the toolbox be shaped for the various tools in the field already.
Former CPM 0, CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
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Maximus Mobius
1
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Posted - 2015.08.28 19:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
This looks like a CPM thing...
All hail our lord and videogame saviour Godd Howard
Bernie Sanders for president 2016
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Spytenn Mallus
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
54
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Posted - 2015.08.28 19:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
It was bandied about elsewhere that the AmScout should get a general buff to all biotics to complement its passive scans and render it a scout hunter, but I'd like to see its passive scan (unshared) to have better range.
I'm probably asking too much.
In 4 days: Old Testament.
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Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
915
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Posted - 2015.08.28 19:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
I like the idea of them being a fast assault unit that can move around the battlefield quickly, shoring up the Amarrian front line at the points where it's beginning to buckle, and when they have the upper hand they can act as a potent harrassing force, hitting flanks and rears to break up the enemy's lines even further.
From a practical stand point, then, we should be looking at bonuses that increase the effacacy of fitted biotics and reduce the fitting costs of damage/weapon mods. They should be durable, tireless and hard-hitting, relatively quick too; perhaps a bonus to the HP gain ferro plates to help promote a combat scout that can actually survive on the front lines? I think that would be a really solid improvement to the suit.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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Spytenn Mallus
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
54
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Posted - 2015.08.28 19:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I don't want to visit problems caused by the Amarr logistics for a class >< as a slot issue. Rather that the toolbox be shaped for the various tools in the field already.
Did anyone other than me hear that one sail far overhead?
In 4 days: Old Testament.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2015.08.28 19:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
My two cents:
Change the AM Scout bonus to a flat efficacy bonus to biotics. The Triathlete Scout. The Biotic Man.
CPM Sgt Kirk - On Community
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
26
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Posted - 2015.08.28 19:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:My two cents:
Change the AM Scout bonus to a flat efficacy bonus to biotics. The Triathlete Scout. The Biotic Man.
Seconding this one.
EWAR needs a lot of work as it is and the passive scanning role is already occupied by both Gal and Cal scouts.
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/230/771
Truly, let the Amscout be the bench press scout.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19
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Posted - 2015.08.28 19:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Spytenn Mallus wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I don't want to visit problems caused by the Amarr logistics for a class >< as a slot issue. Rather that the toolbox be shaped for the various tools in the field already. Did anyone other than me hear that one sail far overhead?
More like I am cautioning to not repeat stupid undo-able mistakes again. You shove an idea into peoples heads in manner that makes it impossible to dislodge and you wind up with a half ass class for all eternity; again...
See Fig 1-1
Assault Dropship
See Fig 1-2
Amarr Logistics
Former CPM 0, CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.28 20:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Can it not do either, depending on how you fit it? There is more than one way to fit a scout suit.
Amarr counter recon light assault
Amarr assassin
The main thing the Amarr scout does better than other scouts is it's passive scan precision. It has the ability to scan at greater precision at medium range than a Gallente logi with an active scanner (non-focussed). It will pick up most scouts further out than any other passive scan, making it a deadly opponent for enemy scouts.
With the exception of a speed hack Min scout, scouts in general are played in roughly the same ways. The various bonuses give them advantages in different areas, but essentially they are all scouts. The Amarr scout is no different. It's precision bonus will just give it an advantage in passive scanning, and a capability to scan scouts beyond what other suits can do. All scouts can be fit as a light assault.
Reasons it is considered underpowered compared to other scouts:
Scan range amps were nerfed hard when the scan falloff was introduced. This was to prevent suits from buffing their hyper precise inner scan rings out too far and turning themselves into walking super radars for their squad.
Unfortunately, this nerf hit Amarr scouts hard, as they were left with little way to buff their diminished medium range scans. This combined with inner scan rings allowing mediums to scan even heavily damped scouts, the massive buff to logi scan range, and the existence of the very powerful Gal logi focussed scans, all diminished the value of the Amarr scout.
The other bonus the Amarr scout has is to stamina. Originally this was the only bonus the suit had. This is not considered terribly good, as the suit already has reasonably good stamina.
Suggestions to improve the situation:
Buff range extenders to 10/15/20%. This moderate buff would improve the Amarr scout's scanning without allowing logi's to become OP at it. If logis remain a concern, perhaps nerf the logi scan range down to be equal with scouts and assaults.
Perhaps swap the stamina bonus for a bonus to biotic modules. This will allow the suit to excel in a variety of ways such as running, jumping and melee. Module bonuses have the advantage of requiring the user to actually equip the right module, rather than just stacking a load of hp.
Maybe look at active scanning. Some proposals have put been forward, such as beam scanning, snapshot scanning, swapping the Gal logi bonus to cooldown rather than precision. I suggest nerfing the focussed scanner range to 50m would be an idea. The impetus for this would be to improve the EWAR situation for medium (and possibly heavy) suits, who currently find it very difficult to avoid Gal logi active scans. The knock-on effect would be that passive scanning would have more of a role.
I suggest trying just the buffs first (20% range amps), and seeing how it goes. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19
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Posted - 2015.08.28 20:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Can it not do either, depending on how you fit it? There is more than one way to fit a scout suit. Amarr counter recon light assaultAmarr assassinThe main thing the Amarr scout does better than other scouts is it's passive scan precision. It has the ability to scan at greater precision at medium range than a Gallente logi with an active scanner (non-focussed). It will pick up most scouts further out than any other passive scan, making it a deadly opponent for enemy scouts. With the exception of a speed hack Min scout, scouts in general are played in roughly the same ways. The various bonuses give them advantages in different areas, but essentially they are all scouts. The Amarr scout is no different. It's precision bonus will just give it an advantage in passive scanning, and a capability to scan scouts beyond what other suits can do. All scouts can be fit as a light assault. Reasons it is considered underpowered compared to other scouts: Scan range amps were nerfed hard when the scan falloff was introduced. This was to prevent suits from buffing their hyper precise inner scan rings out too far and turning themselves into walking super radars for their squad. Unfortunately, this nerf hit Amarr scouts hard, as they were left with little way to buff their diminished medium range scans. This combined with inner scan rings allowing mediums to scan even heavily damped scouts, the massive buff to logi scan range, and the existence of the very powerful Gal logi focussed scans, all diminished the value of the Amarr scout. The other bonus the Amarr scout has is to stamina. Originally this was the only bonus the suit had. This is not considered terribly good, as the suit already has reasonably good stamina. Suggestions to improve the situation: Buff range extenders to 10/15/20%. This moderate buff would improve the Amarr scout's scanning without allowing logi's to become OP at it. If logis remain a concern, perhaps nerf the logi scan range down to be equal with scouts and assaults. Perhaps swap the stamina bonus for a bonus to biotic modules. This will allow the suit to excel in a variety of ways such as running, jumping and melee. Module bonuses have the advantage of requiring the user to actually equip the right module, rather than just stacking a load of hp. Maybe look at active scanning. Some proposals have put forward, such as beam scanning, snapshot scanning, swapping the Gal logi bonus to cooldown rather than precision. I suggest nerfing the focussed scanner range to 50m would be an idea. The impetus for this would be to improve the EWAR situation for medium (and possibly heavy) suits, who currently find it very difficult to avoid Gal logi active scans. The knock-on effect would be that passive scanning would have more of a role. I suggest trying just the buffs first (20% range amps), and seeing how it goes.
I love you.
Former CPM 0, CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
397
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Posted - 2015.08.28 20:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Can it not do either, depending on how you fit it? There is more than one way to fit a scout suit. Amarr counter recon light assaultAmarr assassinThe main thing the Amarr scout does better than other scouts is it's passive scan precision. It has the ability to scan at greater precision at medium range than a Gallente logi with an active scanner (non-focussed). It will pick up most scouts further out than any other passive scan, making it a deadly opponent for enemy scouts. With the exception of a speed hack Min scout, scouts in general are played in roughly the same ways. The various bonuses give them advantages in different areas, but essentially they are all scouts. The Amarr scout is no different. It's precision bonus will just give it an advantage in passive scanning, and a capability to scan scouts beyond what other suits can do. All scouts can be fit as a light assault. Reasons it is considered underpowered compared to other scouts: Scan range amps were nerfed hard when the scan falloff was introduced. This was to prevent suits from buffing their hyper precise inner scan rings out too far and turning themselves into walking super radars for their squad. Unfortunately, this nerf hit Amarr scouts hard, as they were left with little way to buff their diminished medium range scans. This combined with inner scan rings allowing mediums to scan even heavily damped scouts, the massive buff to logi scan range, and the existence of the very powerful Gal logi focussed scans, all diminished the value of the Amarr scout. The other bonus the Amarr scout has is to stamina. Originally this was the only bonus the suit had. This is not considered terribly good, as the suit already has reasonably good stamina. Suggestions to improve the situation: Buff range extenders to 10/15/20%. This moderate buff would improve the Amarr scout's scanning without allowing logi's to become OP at it. If logis remain a concern, perhaps nerf the logi scan range down to be equal with scouts and assaults. Perhaps swap the stamina bonus for a bonus to biotic modules. This will allow the suit to excel in a variety of ways such as running, jumping and melee. Module bonuses have the advantage of requiring the user to actually equip the right module, rather than just stacking a load of hp. Maybe look at active scanning. Some proposals have put forward, such as beam scanning, snapshot scanning, swapping the Gal logi bonus to cooldown rather than precision. I suggest nerfing the focussed scanner range to 50m would be an idea. The impetus for this would be to improve the EWAR situation for medium (and possibly heavy) suits, who currently find it very difficult to avoid Gal logi active scans. The knock-on effect would be that passive scanning would have more of a role. I suggest trying just the buffs first (20% range amps), and seeing how it goes.
This is pretty much spot on...atlhough I disagree with the scaling you have proposed on range extenders...would rather see 15%/18%/20% (I like the idea of narrowing the gap between Standard and Complex/PRO wherever possible)
Another possible solution to helping the Amarr scout is a bonus to mitigate the speed penalty on armor plates (similar to the Vehicle Armor Composition Skill)
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.28 20:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kierkegaard Soren wrote:I like the idea of them being a fast assault unit that can move around the battlefield quickly, shoring up the Amarrian front line at the points where it's beginning to buckle, and when they have the upper hand they can act as a potent harrassing force, hitting flanks and rears to break up the enemy's lines even further.
From a practical stand point, then, we should be looking at bonuses that increase the effacacy of fitted biotics and reduce the fitting costs of damage/weapon mods. They should be durable, tireless and hard-hitting, relatively quick too; perhaps a bonus to the HP gain ferro plates to help promote a combat scout that can actually survive on the front lines? I think that would be a really solid improvement to the suit.
How about this:
Amarr Speed Light Assault
I've used shields because, whilst I agree with the biotic module bonus, I think damage is in the realm of the commando and assault (in a way). Also scouts have great innate shield stats, regardless of race.
Also of note, is that even without any EWAR mods, the Amarr scout can scan undamped assaults (the most common opponent) out to 30m. This is further than any other suit not fitted with EWAR mods. (Obviously discounting active scans). A useful attribute on a light assault. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.28 20:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
I am absolutely not thinking of using this thread as a jump-off point to exclude Amscouts from scout/assassin roles.
Being able to overlap various roles seems to be more beneficial to play than the removal.
For example: In my opinion the Minsent plays a lot like an assault with an HMG. Your Mileage may vary but it doesn't quite have that same level of brick and slow the other sentinels have. The amarr assault fitted a certain way often resembles something more akin to a sentinel with laser weapons. I've seen Gallente assauts that move nearly as fast as scouts to nova knife people.
Saying I don't want the Amscout to be able to fill that role would be shortsighted.
I'm asking if shifting the primary focus of the amscout away from roles it doesn't seem to fit in well with and towards a primary role more suited to a slower, heavier and bluntly more durable scout.
I want to add to. not take away. If the bonuses for the amscout seem to fall flat, what bonuses would give the amscout a viable and interesting role on the field without being a carbon copy or mirror of one of the other scouts?
When it works, the minscout is an excellent assassin/Speed skirmisher.
Galscout is a nightmare to detect and such. Calscout is sort of the evil twin of the galscout only cooler looking.
Do we want to try and shoehorn the Amscout fully into a niche solidly occupied or do we want to carve it a new niche that others can mimic, though it excels?
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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RedBleach LeSanglant
0.P.
875
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Posted - 2015.08.28 21:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Been playing scouts recently too. I overall like Varoth Drac's remarks about Amarr Biotics specialization. The Min is nice for jumping like a maniac. but those are highs, and the AM scout only has 2. Little room for the original specialization of scout hunting and throwing all reds and greens to chase them down does help it overcome its speed limitations, but any other scout will currently be faster with the same setup, thus the bonus would need to be significant enough to put it on better footing than its fellow scouts.
But will an increase in the biotics bonus push an Amarr Scouts speed past the limit? The speed limit that the servers can handle for tracking targeting and hit registers? Will the New Biotic Scout break the speed limit? There would need to be some numbers involved.... I cant at this time, but I'm certain we would need an answer to such a change before it could move forward. If a general percentage breaks the limit of one biotic module but not others is it probable to split the bonus to apply to diff. modules at different rates?... unlikely. -That would breed further contention. But a general percentage that is placed just below the breaking point of one module could diminish the appropriate effective bonus of the other modules that make the bonus competitive.
Therefore a hard cap on speed (as an example - any stat affected may need to have a limit put in place) - just a thought. With that in mind it may not be worth the fitting to equip 3 modules if 2 or 1 hits the cap. Just sayin
Otherwise I like it. The feel of nothing but the wrath of God empowering and protecting the small scout as all I would equip is biotics and knives (maybe a pistol too - Templar issue to be sure  ). Sprinting around on the front lines and from the flanks to die in manic glory - "the colors are just so bright"... sure they are a little drugged up, but many cultures of our past and present do the same before battle.
Full support.
The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.28 21:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
I've put forward suggestions for improving the status quo with minor tweaks.
If bonuses were to be changed more drastically, like Breakin suggests, I've seen other ideas kicking around.
We could accept that stealth is the key purpose of the scout. Well, really I mean operations behind enemy lines, which requires stealth. After all, the cloak is pretty much the only thing a scout can do that an assault can't.
We could then change scout bonuses to the following:
Role bonuses: 75% reduction to cloak fitting. 10% efficiency to profile dampeners per level.
Caldari scout: 5% duration and recharge rate of cloak per level (more racially aligned).
Gallente scout: 10% bonus to scan range amplifier efficiency per level (racially aligned).
Minmatar scout: 10% bonus to codebreaker efficiency per level.
Amarr scout: 10% bonus to biotic module efficiency per level.
Increase nova knife damage by 25%.
So all scouts get decent stealth. The Amarr's precision is ditched, the stamina is replaced with biotics. Caldari and Gallente bonuses are more racially aligned.
Just another thought. |
Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
RUST415
625
|
Posted - 2015.08.28 22:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:This is a simple question.
Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work?
Not trolling, and not judging.
Put your two cents here.
Sounds good
If the Amarr scout was a scout Killer!!!!!!!!! but was not a (OP Cal logi of old)
(So how about a damage bonus against light suits only!)
And a bonus to scan percision against light suits.
This way It would be The scout Killer! |
Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
RUST415
625
|
Posted - 2015.08.28 22:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Luther Mandrix wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:This is a simple question.
Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work?
Not trolling, and not judging.
Put your two cents here. Sounds good If the Amarr scout was a scout Killer!!!!!!!!! but was not a (OP Cal logi of old) (So how about a damage bonus against light suits only!) And a bonus to scan percision against light suits. This way It would be The scout Killer!
The Apex Version of This scout should have a
Contact Gernade
Bolt Pistol
Assault Scrambler Rifle
Compact NanoHive
Cloak |
Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
8
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Posted - 2015.08.28 22:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Return Range Amplifiers to their former glory and Amarr Scouts will be good (like the old Caldari Scout, but slower and with slightly more health).
EDIT: I was originally going to agree with the biotic bonus, but if handled improperly, you might get Amarrians how can run faster and further than Minmatar Scouts, hit harder (possibly jump higher).
With an Ak.0 and a CPX Regulator, you already run forever and adding a CPX kincat brings it up to decent speed. This leaves two slots open, which you can use for two range Amplifiers of old and have a very good scout setup to host hunt scouts (even though they might see you coming).
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
8
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Posted - 2015.08.28 23:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Can it not do either, depending on how you fit it? There is more than one way to fit a scout suit. Amarr counter recon light assaultAmarr assassinThe main thing the Amarr scout does better than other scouts is it's passive scan precision. It has the ability to scan at greater precision at medium range than a Gallente logi with an active scanner (non-focussed). It will pick up most scouts further out than any other passive scan, making it a deadly opponent for enemy scouts. With the exception of a speed hack Min scout, scouts in general are played in roughly the same ways. The various bonuses give them advantages in different areas, but essentially they are all scouts. The Amarr scout is no different. It's precision bonus will just give it an advantage in passive scanning, and a capability to scan scouts beyond what other suits can do. All scouts can be fit as a light assault. Reasons it is considered underpowered compared to other scouts: Scan range amps were nerfed hard when the scan falloff was introduced. This was to prevent suits from buffing their hyper precise inner scan rings out too far and turning themselves into walking super radars for their squad. Unfortunately, this nerf hit Amarr scouts hard, as they were left with little way to buff their diminished medium range scans. This combined with inner scan rings allowing mediums to scan even heavily damped scouts, the massive buff to logi scan range, and the existence of the very powerful Gal logi focussed scans, all diminished the value of the Amarr scout. The other bonus the Amarr scout has is to stamina. Originally this was the only bonus the suit had. This is not considered terribly good, as the suit already has reasonably good stamina. Suggestions to improve the situation: Buff range extenders to 10/15/20%. This moderate buff would improve the Amarr scout's scanning without allowing logi's to become OP at it. If logis remain a concern, perhaps nerf the logi scan range down to be equal with scouts and assaults. Perhaps swap the stamina bonus for a bonus to biotic modules. This will allow the suit to excel in a variety of ways such as running, jumping and melee. Module bonuses have the advantage of requiring the user to actually equip the right module, rather than just stacking a load of hp. Maybe look at active scanning. Some proposals have put been forward, such as beam scanning, snapshot scanning, swapping the Gal logi bonus to cooldown rather than precision. I suggest nerfing the focussed scanner range to 50m would be an idea. The impetus for this would be to improve the EWAR situation for medium (and possibly heavy) suits, who currently find it very difficult to avoid Gal logi active scans. The knock-on effect would be that passive scanning would have more of a role. I suggest trying just the buffs first (20% range amps), and seeing how it goes.
You covered everything I was going to say 
MOAR Ladders
SpadeGǪ Remember your Warbarge
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
12
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Posted - 2015.08.28 23:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
Had a thread about this last month. Feel free to peruse it for feedback.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2854690#post2854690
Thanks for all the support guys, let's fix Dust 514
:D
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Vell0cet
OSG Planetary Operations
3
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Posted - 2015.08.28 23:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
My preference is to fill the scout hunter role. The largest impediment to this was the nerf of the range amps. You can get high precision passive scans, but the range is so poor that enemy scouts are practically ontop of you before you can detect them. If you gimp your fit to increase your passive scan radius, you should be able to detect/react to enemy scouts (who aren't damped like crazy) with enough range that you can take them down outside of shotgun range.
I have an Amarr scout fit for anti-scout, and you have to get pretty close to your targets (you can't cloak yourself obviously) and you have very low survivability. It's pretty weak at the role it should be strong in given how many drawbacks the fit has.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
7
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Posted - 2015.08.28 23:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Beating a dead horse...
"The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.08.29 01:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Amarr are all about endurance. They sit there and fire all the laz0rs they can while soaking up damage with their armor. In recent years they've added speedy ships to counter the fast Minmatar fleets, but these are by far the exception instead of the rule.
The problem with giving them a bonus to biotics is A) if they improve kincats, you will likely be able to run as fast if not faster than a MinScout, if they improve myros, my GOD I would love to see the crazy jumping they could do. And if they improve cardiac regs, their bonus will go mostly unused. It's an interesting idea, but Amarr are not about quick movement. They are about stand-and-deliver.
Therefore, I vote for making them a hunter-killer role. Let them be the anti-scout, with passives to detect them, and a more tankier less stealthy design. As it is, they have passive precision, which is good for their hunter role. So I would give them a bonus to range as well, but not as strong as the Caldari Scout. Say 5% per level.
Whatever the bonus, they should be what you call in when you have a scout problem.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
936
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Posted - 2015.08.29 02:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:My two cents:
Change the AM Scout bonus to a flat efficacy bonus to biotics. The Triathlete Scout. The Biotic Man. Seconding this one. EWAR needs a lot of work as it is and the passive scanning role is already occupied by both Gal and Cal scouts. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/230/771Truly, let the Amscout be the bench press scout.
I would like to argue against this, the Am scout is just as capable at its scanning role as the other two in fact it surpasses the gal scout by having stronger passive scans and that also holds true against the cal scout but with less range
now the biotic bonus it has should in my opinion be to both stamina and sprint speed adding a 1% bonus to kincats would complete it and make it a better suit if not the best at hunting scouts or as a pure pseudo assault with tons of mobility
the cal scout has to use up all its high slots to be able to pick up scouts in its middle ring while the am scout still has the option to tank with its highs filled up and can still damp well enough to avoid passive and active scans as damps are naturally stronger then precision mods
if the bonuses were as I proposed you could fit it with two damps two precision mods and one of each low slot biotic mod and have the best scans avoid scans yourself and be comparably mobile to the min scout
the am scouts weakness is arguably its low speed as it is the slowest scout out there but it has the best base stamina and better with its existing bonus adding some speed to it would make it be more desirable for multiple roles as well as possibly allowing it to be as fast as a min scout and with its stamina it could arguably be the best running scout allowing it to do multiple things one such being uplink deployment, with a single complex cardio regulator this suit can run around an entire map and do so very quickly if you put some kincats on it with an extra 5% bonus to kincats it would get it closer to 10m/s with two kincats allowing it to travel further quickly and with 800+ stamina and a recovery that's just as good 80+ this suit can go from one end of a map to another very quickly and it only takes about 10 seconds for its stamina to be back to full
the way people tend to play an am scout baffles me sometimes as many don't take advantage of its strong points being stamina and precision mainly, having the precision allows you to stay away from danger or set up ambushes or trap and its high mobility allows for quick easy fast mobility
personally my favorite scout is the cal scout but what it lacks is exactly what the am scout has mainly being mobility and the ability to tank while maintaining good scans and it can still very well damp up if need be, that in itself makes it my second favorite scout with the gal coming in third and min last as I only ever really use it for three main things being NK's speed hacks and point to point defense
the am scout is capable of so much but mainly I find it the best suit to use if you find yourself having to move around a lot especially at long distances, this can be the case if your team happens to lose uplinks at a vital spot that's far away or you need to go the long way around if there's a major fight going on, the mobility can also be vary useful for a sniper allowing them to switch positions quickly and move from one vantage point to the next easily
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
936
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Posted - 2015.08.29 02:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Amarr are all about endurance. They sit there and fire all the laz0rs they can while soaking up damage with their armor. In recent years they've added speedy ships to counter the fast Minmatar fleets, but these are by far the exception instead of the rule.
The problem with giving them a bonus to biotics is A) if they improve kincats, you will likely be able to run as fast if not faster than a MinScout, if they improve myros, my GOD I would love to see the crazy jumping they could do. And if they improve cardiac regs, their bonus will go mostly unused. It's an interesting idea, but Amarr are not about quick movement. They are about stand-and-deliver.
Therefore, I vote for making them a hunter-killer role. Let them be the anti-scout, with passives to detect them, and a more tankier less stealthy design. As it is, they have passive precision, which is good for their hunter role. So I would give them a bonus to range as well, but not as strong as the Caldari Scout. Say 5% per level.
Whatever the bonus, they should be what you call in when you have a scout problem.
a 5% bonus to range on the amarr scout allows it to far surpass it in range as it can already stack more range amps
currently the ewar bonuses are such that every scout is capable of close to the same thing with the exception of the min scout which is semi good at almost everything with its main focus being on speed and hacking making it the best hit and run with its bonus to NK's and speed hack scout being able to far surpass all the other scouts in those simple roles
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
936
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 02:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:My preference is to fill the scout hunter role. The largest impediment to this was the nerf of the range amps. You can get high precision passive scans, but the range is so poor that enemy scouts are practically ontop of you before you can detect them. If you gimp your fit to increase your passive scan radius, you should be able to detect/react to enemy scouts (who aren't damped like crazy) with enough range that you can take them down outside of shotgun range.
I have an Amarr scout fit for anti-scout (2 complex precisions & 2 complex range), and you have to get pretty close to your targets (you can't cloak yourself obviously) and you have very low survivability. It's pretty weak at the role it should excel in given how many drawbacks the fit has.
at max ranks for ewar you should be able to detect any scout that has a single damp on at 15m and everything else in under 6m
allowing you to tank while having this visibility is what makes it a great scout hunter, the range would only serve to give squad mates more vision as the cal scout can do but keep in mind that the cal scout has to give up all of its hp to be able to do this meaning they have to rely more on it and their squad to keep them alive
the only scouts that should be able to even get close without you noticing are double damped gal and cal scouts as a min scout needs three damps just to go under the middle ring
a gal scout that is double damped loses most of its main tank and a cal scout is easy to deal with as it can easily be destroyed by anti shiled weapons in under half a second and you will likely see it before it sees you, the gal scout is really the only thing you have to sorta worry about but even then you should have enough tank to be able to survive any ranged attacks and if it gets too close for knifing or to use a shotgun you should be able to pick him up and react fast enough to eliminate it
you can use an AScR and BP combo or CR and BScP combo to hunt scouts any of the scouts that are damped well enough should have very low eHP and those that aren't should easily be picked up and picked off quickly
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 07:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
So long as CCP are careful with any changes to scanning. I suggested just a +5% to range mods. More of a buff than this would likely be OP. |
WyrmHero1945
Finesse Soldiers
597
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 07:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
I like the bonus as it is. I can be either a light assault or a scout hunter. I don't care for biotics on this suit as my highs are 2 precision enhancers while my lows are a dampener, a repairer and 2 ferroscales. So biotics bonus would be pretty much useless for me. The max stamina/stamina regen is nice and it helps for the hunting more as I never get tired and can trace my enemy without losing track.
If anything needs to be looked at is the general scout Cloak Field bonus. The Cloak Field needs to have lower CPU so that I'm able to fit it! In any way, the general bonus should be aimed at Active Scanners instead. Imo it's the main scout equipment, you literally SCOUT the field. I like the proposition of making the GalLogi bonus that instead increases the scanner's duration. For Scouts, either a CPU/PG reduction, a range bonus or angle of view. Scan precision shouldn't be included in the bonus. Scan profile should be dictated more in module fit decisions.
If a GalScout doesn't want to be hunted by me, he should better have 2 dampeners then. But scouts should be the only ones hunting other scouts, not logis with scanners. So yeah plz consider changing that general scout bonus and the GalLogi's. |
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Vell0cet
OSG Planetary Operations
3
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Posted - 2015.08.29 08:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:Vell0cet wrote:My preference is to fill the scout hunter role. The largest impediment to this was the nerf of the range amps. You can get high precision passive scans, but the range is so poor that enemy scouts are practically ontop of you before you can detect them. If you gimp your fit to increase your passive scan radius, you should be able to detect/react to enemy scouts (who aren't damped like crazy) with enough range that you can take them down outside of shotgun range.
I have an Amarr scout fit for anti-scout (2 complex precisions & 2 complex range), and you have to get pretty close to your targets (you can't cloak yourself obviously) and you have very low survivability. It's pretty weak at the role it should excel in given how many drawbacks the fit has. at max ranks for ewar you should be able to detect any scout that has a single damp on at 15m and everything else in under 6m allowing you to tank while having this visibility is what makes it a great scout hunter, the range would only serve to give squad mates more vision as the cal scout can do but keep in mind that the cal scout has to give up all of its hp to be able to do this meaning they have to rely more on it and their squad to keep them alive the only scouts that should be able to even get close without you noticing are double damped gal and cal scouts as a min scout needs three damps just to go under the middle ring a gal scout that is double damped loses most of its main tank and a cal scout is easy to deal with as it can easily be destroyed by anti shiled weapons in under half a second and you will likely see it before it sees you, the gal scout is really the only thing you have to sorta worry about but even then you should have enough tank to be able to survive any ranged attacks and if it gets too close for knifing or to use a shotgun you should be able to pick him up and react fast enough to eliminate it you can use an AScR and BP combo or CR and BScP combo to hunt scouts any of the scouts that are damped well enough should have very low eHP and those that aren't should easily be picked up and picked off quickly
6m is basically worthless. By the time you detect them, and react, they're shotgunning/NKing you. Scouts can close that distance very quickly. An enemy scout will see you before you see them (because you can't cloak and be useful). This means they can approach very quickly from behind. Extra tank in this situation is pretty useless because you are still a squishy target (as all scouts should be).
IMO an Amarr scout fit with double complex precision and double complex range should be able to detect a double damped Gal Scout at around 20m. That's the bar IMO for having enough time to react and kill one while you still have a range advantage. I'm not sure how to get there and still have everything else balanced.
Perhaps it may be possible to expand the detection circles for the Amarr scout while keeping the same max range? In other words, at max skills the inner and middle rings would be a lot closer to the outer rings? I don't know what the exact math might be like but instead of 25% - 75% - 100% maybe it would be more like 70% - 85% - 100% with Amar Scout 5? I'm pulling those percents from my ass, but hopefully the general idea is clear. This approach (if even possible from a technical standpoint) would allow for the Amarr Scout to excel in killing other scouts without stepping on the toes of the Caldari Scout's role.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Klubba Dkc2
Atmospheric Pollution
43
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Posted - 2015.08.29 09:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
If only range extender were good as they used to be, am scout would be quite useful.
Klubba pay Toll
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.29 09:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
Theoretically to add to this. I'm kicking around a frame skill bonus bit.
Were it accepted the frame skills would have a racial flavor with the bonus carrying to specialist suits.
So for the sake of moving forward, for the sake of the argument assume that the amarr scout can't be pushed to catch up to minmatar sprint because of mitigating factors.
No guarantees of course.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.08.29 10:02:00 -
[34] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:This is a simple question.
Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work?
Not trolling, and not judging.
Put your two cents here.
With the amarr relentlessness is the theme.
Precision bonus means it is a counter recon suit. the problem is, the gallente logi is much better at it than the amarr scout.
Amarr scout a has stamina and prescion, and nothing inhernetly high about it.
I would lose the stamina as a suit bonus and just grant it native high stamina from the beginning.
Now lets broaden its horizons and give it an across the board bonus to efficacy with Biotics.
Kincats, Myros, Cardiac regs get a 25% bonus maxed out.
2-4 layout suit.
Now your myrofibs would be just as usefull as having it on the minmatar scout suit. Cardiac regs bonsu means it can run for far longer and kincat bonus means it can keep up with the faster scout suits. Since it will need some damps, or at least one low slot for HP, it wont be as glass cannon.
It keeps the amarr theme of relentlessness. It can relelentlessly keep up with the ewar and assasination scouts. It would also be the first suit on the point to dropup links, the amarrian way.Prescision bonus means it can find and kill the others. Yet, any fit focusing soley on biotics will be a glass cannon unable to go toe to toe with the assaults.
That would be one hell of a usefull suit. Fast, durable, jumpy if need be, and the precision to detect and beat the other sneaky scouts.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.29 11:43:00 -
[35] - Quote
Sums up my original thoughts pretty well actually.
I hadn't set my heart on biotics but that seems a solid option. Do we have any other suggestions for how the amscout might better perform?
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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xavier zor
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.08.29 12:07:00 -
[36] - Quote
I say keep it as a recon/E-war scout...first we need our old E-war back; the current E-war nerf is really bad, forcing us to use cloaks which we shouldn't have to (cloaks make E-war bad, if amarr scout wants to help his team by sharing his passives he can't run a cloak). Bring back the old statistics, the current E-war is horrible; my logi can see as far as my scout which SHOULD NOT HAPPEN!
second, range amps need a buff, bigtime. They suck, period. Gal logi = active scan king, am scout = passive scan king (well, use to be anyway)
third, give passive scan intel kill assists.
sLaYeR
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Haerr
Ancient Exiles.
3
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Posted - 2015.08.29 13:13:00 -
[37] - Quote
New Amarr scout bonus:
* No hud chevron (ever)
^ I would spec into that **** right away |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2015.08.29 13:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
Klubba Dkc2 wrote:If only range extender were good as they used to be, am scout would be quite useful.
Buffing Range Extenders will benefit CA Scout and Logis more than the AM Scout.
CPM Sgt Kirk - On Community
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Dont-be-a-D1CK
Dead Man's Game
56
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Posted - 2015.08.29 14:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Sums up my original thoughts pretty well actually.
I hadn't set my heart on biotics but that seems a solid option. Do we have any other suggestions for how the amscout might better perform?
It's biotics ability is already one of the best in the Scout Class..
I run Am.Scout second to my Min, and enjoy the suit for carrying a SG, and it does well in Scout V Scout
I think a solid fix would be move the Scout bonus (Cloak cost reduction) over to the Cloak Field Skill..
Freeing up a Scout bonus which I would ideally set as X% bonus to Profile Dampeners OR all EWAR modules
This would step on CA/GA Scouts, but their damp bonus could be set to a Cloaking bonus..
- reduction to Cloak cooldown / duration / passive scan penalty possibly..
The Am Scout would be rivaling the best if it did not have a red blip on it's head saying "shoot me"
Tweaking the AmScout (I feel is already balanced) is just asking for a new FOTM imo and any changes made should be to the Scout class entirely not just the Amarr Scout, as all of them could use some changes as the meta is clearly..
MN (Assault) > GA > CA > MN > AM Scouts.
most of all, a Scanned Scout is a dead Scout and defeats the purpose of wearing a low hp frame in the first place.
Ban me once, shame on me
Ban me twice, shame on you !!!
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2015.08.29 14:22:00 -
[40] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Sums up my original thoughts pretty well actually.
I hadn't set my heart on biotics but that seems a solid option. Do we have any other suggestions for how the amscout might better perform?
Discussed Ideas:
* Find a way to improve his short-range / high-intensity scans
* Recast as "biotic scout" by changing bonus to biotic efficacy
Other Old Barbershop Ideas:
* Ferro / Reactive Efficacy Bonus - The idea at the time was to give Scouts who like to tank armor a go-to option.
* Uplink Bonus - This could work, but it potentially steps on Logi toes.
* ScP Headshot and Dmg Bonus - Shoehorns the unit, but could be a fun and effective suit for pistol lovers
An Aeon Amadi Idea:
AM Scout gets to hack hostile equipment for +X WP per flip. I like it and Aeon likes it, which (if nothing else) makes it rare. 
CPM Sgt Kirk - On Community
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
12
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Posted - 2015.08.29 17:13:00 -
[41] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:This is a simple question.
Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work?
Not trolling, and not judging.
Put your two cents here.
Gal scout is dampening and low power, high range scans.
Caldari is dampening and high power, short range scans.
Minmatar is speed and dampening.
Amarr is durability and dampening.
Personally, I like the idea of the Amarr scout being the go to "Low profile slayer". If you want to slap dampeners on an assault, it should be emulating the Amarr scout. That being said, you need to be VERY CAREFUL with HP values.
If you aren't careful, Amarr scout will literally replace assaults.
Currently listening to: Tsukihime OST
Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.29 17:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:This is a simple question.
Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work?
Not trolling, and not judging.
Put your two cents here. Gal scout is dampening and low power, high range scans. Caldari is dampening and high power, short range scans. Minmatar is speed and dampening. Amarr is durability and dampening. Personally, I like the idea of the Amarr scout being the go to "Low profile slayer". If you want to slap dampeners on an assault, it should be emulating the Amarr scout. That being said, you need to be VERY CAREFUL with HP values. If you aren't careful, Amarr scout will literally replace assaults.
I'm actually thinking about pushing the utility for killing lightly-defended targets over any sort of HP buff honestly. I'd like to keep most of what is already there.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
RUST415
632
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Posted - 2015.08.30 19:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
Is it possible to give a suit a Bonus that only can be applied to one class of suits?
Amarr scout bonus plus whatever to Scan Precision to seeing light suits only and a General scan percison to the other classes of suits.That way it could be a scout killer without being a killer of all dropsuits. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2015.08.30 19:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
Luther Mandrix wrote:Is it possible to give a suit a Bonus that only can be applied to one class of suits?
Amarr scout bonus plus whatever to Scan Precision to seeing light suits only and a General scan percison to the other classes of suits.That way it could be a scout killer without being a killer of all dropsuits.
Strong Scan Precision is as much about detecting/avoiding threats as it is sniffing out infiltrators. Fit to maximize their strength at EWAR, these units weigh in at 250HP-350HP. They must choose their fights very carefully, and their survival depends largely upon detecting and assessing threats before they themselves are detected.
Restricting the AM Scout's scans to focus only on other Scouts would hurt the AM Scout more than it'd help. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.30 20:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Luther Mandrix wrote:Is it possible to give a suit a Bonus that only can be applied to one class of suits?
Amarr scout bonus plus whatever to Scan Precision to seeing light suits only and a General scan percison to the other classes of suits.That way it could be a scout killer without being a killer of all dropsuits. Strong Scan Precision is as much about detecting/avoiding threats as it is sniffing out infiltrators. Fit to maximize their strength at EWAR, these units weigh in at 250HP-350HP. They must choose every fight very carefully, and their survival depends largely upon detecting and assessing threats before they themselves are detected. Restricting the AM Scout's scans to focus only on other Scouts would hurt the AM Scout more than it'd help.
I'd say "torch" rather than reduce.
I've managed to get a sentinel really low on the damps (compared to normal, and there's no guarantee that a bonus to only pick up scouts would spot that fatfit. Adipem, you know the baseline scout stuff better than me.
And if my triple-damped amsent can't get under that baseline, then an assault surely can.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2015.08.30 20:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Luther Mandrix wrote:Is it possible to give a suit a Bonus that only can be applied to one class of suits?
Amarr scout bonus plus whatever to Scan Precision to seeing light suits only and a General scan percison to the other classes of suits.That way it could be a scout killer without being a killer of all dropsuits. Strong Scan Precision is as much about detecting/avoiding threats as it is sniffing out infiltrators. Fit to maximize their strength at EWAR, these units weigh in at 250HP-350HP. They must choose every fight very carefully, and their survival depends largely upon detecting and assessing threats before they themselves are detected. Restricting the AM Scout's scans to focus only on other Scouts would hurt the AM Scout more than it'd help. I'd say "torch" rather than reduce. I've managed to get a sentinel really low on the damps (compared to normal, and there's no guarantee that a bonus to only pick up scouts would spot that fatfit. Adipem, you know the baseline scout stuff better than me. And if my triple-damped amsent can't get under that baseline, then an assault surely can.
Not sure what you're saying, Breakin. In case I was unclear, Luther's idea above would do more harm than good to the AM Scout. You can't hunt scouts if you're dead, and if you're blind to everything but Scouts, you'll definitely be dead.
As for your heavy, 3 complex damps will get your scan profile under 28dB Active Scans as well as all outer-ring passive scans. If you're interested in passive scan values, here's breakdown: Google Doc. To the right of the first sheet is a summary of scan profiles for all unit types. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.30 20:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Luther Mandrix wrote:Is it possible to give a suit a Bonus that only can be applied to one class of suits?
Amarr scout bonus plus whatever to Scan Precision to seeing light suits only and a General scan percison to the other classes of suits.That way it could be a scout killer without being a killer of all dropsuits. Strong Scan Precision is as much about detecting/avoiding threats as it is sniffing out infiltrators. Fit to maximize their strength at EWAR, these units weigh in at 250HP-350HP. They must choose every fight very carefully, and their survival depends largely upon detecting and assessing threats before they themselves are detected. Restricting the AM Scout's scans to focus only on other Scouts would hurt the AM Scout more than it'd help. I'd say "torch" rather than reduce. I've managed to get a sentinel really low on the damps (compared to normal, and there's no guarantee that a bonus to only pick up scouts would spot that fatfit. Adipem, you know the baseline scout stuff better than me. And if my triple-damped amsent can't get under that baseline, then an assault surely can. Not sure what you're saying, Breakin. In case I was unclear, Luther's idea above would do more harm than good to the AM Scout. You can't hunt scouts if you're dead, and if you're blind to everything but Scouts, you'll definitely be dead. As for your heavy, 3 complex damps will get your scan profile under 28dB Active Scans as well as all outer-ring passive scans. If you're interested in passive scan values, here's breakdown: Google Doc. To the right of the first sheet is a summary of scan profiles for all unit types.
I was saying that an amscout that only got a bonus to fighting scouts would be dead meat against anyone who even partially took EWAR seriously. and with ranges for scanning being absolute crap, the Amscout has excellent base sensory range... Within the optimal of a Breach Assault Rifle.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
RUST415
632
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Posted - 2015.08.31 01:28:00 -
[48] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Luther Mandrix wrote:Is it possible to give a suit a Bonus that only can be applied to one class of suits?
Amarr scout bonus plus whatever to Scan Precision to seeing light suits only and a General scan percison to the other classes of suits.That way it could be a scout killer without being a killer of all dropsuits. Strong Scan Precision is as much about detecting/avoiding threats as it is sniffing out infiltrators. Fit to maximize their strength at EWAR, these units weigh in at 250HP-350HP. They must choose every fight very carefully, and their survival depends largely upon detecting and assessing threats before they themselves are detected. Restricting the AM Scout's scans to focus only on other Scouts would hurt the AM Scout more than it'd help. I'd say "torch" rather than reduce. I've managed to get a sentinel really low on the damps (compared to normal, and there's no guarantee that a bonus to only pick up scouts would spot that fatfit. Adipem, you know the baseline scout stuff better than me. And if my triple-damped amsent can't get under that baseline, then an assault surely can. Not sure what you're saying, Breakin. In case I was unclear, Luther's idea above would do more harm than good to the AM Scout. You can't hunt scouts if you're dead, and if you're blind to everything but Scouts, you'll definitely be dead. As for your heavy, 3 complex damps will get your scan profile under 28dB Active Scans as well as all outer-ring passive scans. If you're interested in passive scan values, here's breakdown: Google Doc. To the right of the first sheet is a summary of scan profiles for all unit types. I was saying that an amscout that only got a bonus to fighting scouts would be dead meat against anyone who even partially took EWAR seriously. and with ranges for scanning being absolute crap, the Amscout has excellent base sensory range... Within the optimal of a Breach Assault Rifle.
Just because it has a greater bonus to looking for scouts doesn't mean it can't have any bonus to finding other suit.
Just give it two bonuses % to light suits detection(greater)
And % to finding all the other suits detection(not as great as light suit bonus) |
Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
798
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 13:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
Long ago before the damage mod nerfs I used to run a glass cannon scr scout, I'd like to see the Amarr Scout fill this role. So following the light assault doctrine give it a small heat reduction bonus or able to hold a higher charge shot In the scr
But if not biotics sounds good, give me something to spend my LP on
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
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Carmine Lotte
Talon Havocs
19
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Posted - 2015.09.01 04:00:00 -
[50] - Quote
Just wondering(since I'm skilling into AmScout) what about removing the bio bonus and give it a EWAR falloff bonus instead?
5% or 8% per level? |
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.09.01 16:12:00 -
[51] - Quote
I don't see how biotics man gives it a role. What will that bring to the table? What role needs lots of biotics? I mean it could be a nice lolfit suit, but what place would it have in competitive gameplay?
I support the scout hunter role because that is a role that needs filling, is clearly defined, and is useful in competitive play.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
14
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Posted - 2015.09.02 01:02:00 -
[52] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I don't see how biotics man gives it a role. What will that bring to the table? What role needs lots of biotics? I mean it could be a nice lolfit suit, but what place would it have in competitive gameplay?
Think Lightning xVx. |
ROMULUS H3X
research lab
676
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 02:18:00 -
[53] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:This is a simple question.
Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work?
Not trolling, and not judging.
Put your two cents here.
I think I might have met 3 REAL scouts in this game... ALL the rest that I have encountered were "Light-Assaults"
FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS
PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH
ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.09.02 04:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
what if the amscout's bonusing was for precision and range rather than dampening?
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 08:38:00 -
[55] - Quote
I still think biotics man is pointless. 1. It doesn't fit lore since the Amarr only have cardiac regs for biotics. 2. Giving it biotics either a. doesn't give it anything another suit can't do just as well or B. Steps on another scout suits role.
We could have the base precision on Amarr scouts be lower than they're counterparts. Or buff the bonus to precision to 7.5% per level. Scout hunter is a viable role. Although honestly I think the Caldari Scout should be the scout hunter, but as it is Amarr Scout can sufficiently fill the role.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
14
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 12:44:00 -
[56] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:what if the amscout's bonusing was for precision and range rather than precision and stamina?
^ FTFY. Back in HF Charlie, Rattati shuffled around Scout Bonuses to (1) help the under-utilized and lackluster AM Scout find a role, (2) ease pressure on the oft scanned and underperforming MinScout and (3) reign in the abundant and overperforming Caldari and Gallente Scouts.
Pre-Charlie Scout Bonuses
Gallente: Dampening and Range
Caldari: Precision and Range
Amarr: Stamina
Minmatar: Hack and Slash
Post-Charlie Scout Bonuses
Gallente: Dampening and Precision
Caldari: Range and Dampening
Amarr: Precision and Stamina
Minmatar: Hack and Slash
The specific values of EWAR bonuses were set such that the former extremes achieved through min-maxing would yield more normalized results. For example, an AM or GA Scout running straight range extenders would now scan just shy of the best-in-class CA Scout fit with the same. The counter-infiltration function and the passive scan precision baseline -- now at a less potent 18dB -- were taken away from from the CA Scout and ceded to the shorter-range AM Scout. Lastly, profiles values were tuned such that all Scouts could reasonably beat this new precision baseline.
Ultimately, Rattati's plan was to split the "Passive Scan Pie" between the AM and CA Scout; the AM would excel at short-range / high-intensity scans and the CA at long-range / low-intensity scans. His plan worked exceptionally well ... up until Falloff changed how scans work. Today, the AM Scout shares his diluted domain (short-range / high-intensity scans) with any unit which fits a precision enhancer or two.
To answer your question -- "why not give the AM Scout a bonus to precision and range" -- well, we probably could but we'd have to find something new for the CalScout to do. I personally think it'd be a better idea to assign this role to the CA Scout and a new role to the AM Scout. Today's passive scans are no where near as strong as yesterday's; I'm of the opinion that we could safely give one a unit a bonus to both precision and range without upsetting balance or competitive meta. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
14
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 13:12:00 -
[57] - Quote
The Ultimate Fix!
Scout Class Bonuses
* Fitting Reduction to Cloak
* Efficacy Bonus to Dampeners
Scout Racial Bonuses
* Gallente - Immune to "action penalties" to scan profile
* Caldari - Range & Precision
* Minmatar - Hack & Slash
* Amarr - Base Stamina & Bonus to Biotics
(work in progress ... subject to tweaks ) |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 14:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
Let's look at the triangle here. The scout skills are range, dampening and precision. so why not put range and precision to Amarr, Dampening and precision to gallente, dampening and range to Caldari, and Melee and biotics to minmatar?
Gallente: Dampening and Precision
Caldari: Range and Dampening
Amarr: Precision and Range
Minmatar: Hack and Slash/ Biotics
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
|
Tebu Gan
0uter.Heaven
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 14:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:This is a simple question.
Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work?
Not trolling, and not judging.
Put your two cents here.
Not judging, what alternate universe is this? |
Carmine Lotte
Talon Havocs
21
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 14:29:00 -
[60] - Quote
Just replace AmScout biotics bounus for a EWAR falloff bounus
So it does not interfere with CalScout bounus. |
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 14:48:00 -
[61] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:This is a simple question.
Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work?
Not trolling, and not judging.
Put your two cents here. Not judging, what alternate universe is this?
The one where beer falls into my lap from the sky when I desire it, and the world ceases to exist save when I deign to acknowledge it.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
|
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 15:16:00 -
[62] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
The "AM Scout Edge" translates to the ability to detect four loadouts ...
* 3x damped Assaults
* 4x damped Assaults
* 2x damped MN Scouts
* 2x damped AM Scouts
... and only between 7 and 15 meters (a little more if you're stacking range extenders).
Actually, unless you count non-existant 4x precision Cal scouts, you need to add 1x damps Cal and Gal scouts to this list.
So effectively the majority of all competitively fit scouts, as this is the level of dampening required to hide from Gal logi scans.
The fact that passive scans don't give enemies an on screen warning like actives do, increases the chance of catching unsuspecting scouts. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 15:38:00 -
[63] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Let's look at the triangle here. The scout skills are range, dampening and precision. so why not put range and precision to Amarr, Dampening and precision to gallente, dampening and range to Caldari, and Melee and biotics to minmatar?
Gallente: Dampening and Precision
Caldari: Range and Dampening
Amarr: Precision and Range
Minmatar: Hack and Slash/ Biotics
Please don't change the Minmatar hacking bonus. Also, counter-intuitively, it's quite difficult to fit many biotic modules on a Min scout due to the low PG and reliance on shield tanking. So it's not a great fit.
Combining precision and range has the potential to be OP, as it was when the Caldari scout had it. Passive scans may have been nerfed, but they were nerfed because they were considered OP. This is a change that many have been happy with. We don't see GD spammed with threads saying "make scans stronger".
For example, Caldari scouts can scan assaults very well at relatively long range, if they fit a precision mod. If they had a bonus to precision as well as range they would not have to fit any scanning mods to achieve this advantage.
You could give Amarr scouts a watered down version of the Caldari range bonus, but it still may cause problems.
Range amps are still a weak module. If they were buffed, but Amarr scanning had been buffed previously, we would end up with OP Amarr scouts.
By giving three of the four scouts bonuses to EWAR you have actually reduced the variety, as at the moment we have only 2.5 scouts with these bonuses. You would have to remove one of the bonuses from the variety of scout bonuses to make room for this idea.
In summary, I think combining range and precision bonuses is dangerous, and reducing the variety of scout bonuses would be bad. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
14
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 15:39:00 -
[64] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
The "AM Scout Edge" translates to the ability to detect four loadouts ...
* 3x damped Assaults
* 4x damped Assaults
* 2x damped MN Scouts
* 2x damped AM Scouts
... and only between 7 and 15 meters (a little more if you're stacking range extenders).
Actually, unless you count non-existant 4x precision Cal scouts, you need to add 1x damps Cal and Gal scouts to this list. So effectively the majority of all competitively fit scouts, as this is the level of dampening required to hide from Gal logi scans. The fact that passive scans don't give enemies an on screen warning like actives do, increases the chance of catching unsuspecting scouts.
Absolutely fair, Varoth. Still, the point remains:
The AM Scout's "competitive edge" is limited to a very narrow middle ring. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
14
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 15:50:00 -
[65] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Let's look at the triangle here. The scout skills are range, dampening and precision. so why not put range and precision to Amarr, Dampening and precision to gallente, dampening and range to Caldari, and Melee and biotics to minmatar?
Gallente: Dampening and Precision
Caldari: Range and Dampening
Amarr: Precision and Range
Minmatar: Hack and Slash/ Biotics
My two cents:
First and foremost, please don't mess with the MinScout unless you're giving it a better scan profile. This one's particularly delicate, as I believe performance statistics will indicate, and I believe it best left alone if at all possible.
As for the AM Scout, a few more meters of Scan Range wouldn't hurt anything. Trading it stamina bonus (on the other hand) for those few more meters of scan range would definitely hurt more than help. I believe this unit would stand to benefit more from added mobility than it would sharing a bonus with the CalScout. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 15:52:00 -
[66] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
Absolutely fair, Varoth. Still, the point remains:
The AM Scout's "competitive edge" is limited to a very narrow middle ring.
I still think the Amarr scout's unique ability to detect assaults at 30m, without fitting any mods, is an advantage that many don't consider.
If fit with damage mods, shields or myos, scanning assaults at 30m is pretty nice. Here are other suits by comparison:
Unmodded range to detect undampened assaults (max skills):
Am scout - 30m
Min scout - 15m
Gal scout - 15m
Cal scout - 23m
Logi - 19m
Assault - 15m
Commando - 6m
Sentinel - 5m
I'm not saying they are in a great place. However I don't want to see passive scans becoming OP again. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 15:52:00 -
[67] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Let's look at the triangle here. The scout skills are range, dampening and precision. so why not put range and precision to Amarr, Dampening and precision to gallente, dampening and range to Caldari, and Melee and biotics to minmatar?
Gallente: Dampening and Precision
Caldari: Range and Dampening
Amarr: Precision and Range
Minmatar: Hack and Slash/ Biotics
My two cents: First and foremost, please don't mess with the MinScout unless you're giving it a better scan profile. This one's particularly delicate, as I believe performance statistics will indicate, and I believe it best left alone if at all possible. As for the AM Scout, a few more meters of Scan Range wouldn't hurt anything. Trading it stamina bonus (on the other hand) for those few more meters of scan range would definitely hurt more than help.
Hence Why I'm asking things before I run my mouth about them. My problem is that base ranges are ass anyway, and IMHO if you can't see a target outside your center ring, there's not much point. that center ring is basically AR optimal.
This is why I'm asking, really.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
|
Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 15:56:00 -
[68] - Quote
*** NUMBERING EDITS MINE FOR CLARITY ***
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Sums up my original thoughts pretty well actually.
I hadn't set my heart on biotics but that seems a solid option. Do we have any other suggestions for how the amscout might better perform? Already Discussed Ideas: (1) * Find a way to improve his short-range / high-intensity scans. (2) * Recast him as "biotic scout" by changing bonus to biotic efficacy. Other Old Barbershop Ideas: (3) * Ferro / Reactive Efficacy Bonus - The idea at the time was to give Scouts who like to tank armor a go-to option. (4) * Uplink Bonus - This could work, but it'd also potentially step on Logi toes. (5) * ScP Headshot and Dmg Bonus - Shoehorns the unit, but could be a fun and effective suit for pistoleers. An Aeon Amadi Idea: (6) * AM Scout gets to hack hostile equipment for +X WP per flip. I like it and Aeon likes it, which -- if nothing else -- makes it a rare gem.
1. yes
2. yes
3. nah, might as well go assault then
4. YES, links only and logis can keep the bonii to hives and reps and needles
5. YES
6. YES, but only up to X=.5 or so. No need to be greedy.
There are four main races in DUST514: The Amarr, bla, bla, and bla.
|
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
14
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 15:59:00 -
[69] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
Absolutely fair, Varoth. Still, the point remains:
The AM Scout's "competitive edge" is limited to a very narrow middle ring.
I still think the Amarr scout's unique ability to detect assaults at 30m, without fitting any mods, is an advantage that many don't consider. If fit with damage mods, shields or myos, scanning assaults at 30m is pretty nice. Here are other suits by comparison: Unmodded range to detect undampened assaults (max skills): Min scout - 15m Gal scout - 15m Cal scout - 23m Logi - 19m Assault - 15m Commando - 6m Sentinel - 5m I'm not saying they are in a great place. However I don't want to see passive scans becoming OP again.
Perhaps, but I don't know that I'd call that a competitive strength or unique advantage. Once EWAR modules are in play, GA and CA Scouts can do the same if not better. Competitively speaking, long range passives are inferior to actives, and if shared passives are disabled (which seems to be a possibility), they'll be even more inferior than they are now.
If we were to move the AM Scout bonus away from passive scans, his new-found role(s) would be insulated against upcoming EWAR changes. This is another good reason, in my opinion, to be looking at reasonable alternatives. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 16:19:00 -
[70] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:If we were to move the AM Scout bonus away from passive scans, his new-found role(s) would be insulated against upcoming EWAR changes. This is another good reason, in my opinion, to be looking at reasonable alternatives. Would you promote moving all racial suit bonuses away from eWar? Or just for that one suit?
I haven't made up my mind, so I'm just asking.
My personal stance is that the current AmScout bonus may become very useful once the active scans have received a tweak. You are right in saying that right now active scans are quite simply superior. Until I know how actives are going to change I have trouble deciding what should be done. Subjectively I wouldn't advocate discussing both changes at once. |
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 16:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
Perhaps, but I don't know that I'd call that a competitive strength or unique advantage. Once EWAR modules are in play, GA and CA Scouts can do the same if not better. Competitively speaking, long range passives are inferior to actives, and if shared passives are disabled (which seems to be a possibility), they'll be even more inferior than they are now.
If we were to move the AM Scout bonus away from passive scans, his new-found role(s) would be insulated against upcoming EWAR changes. This is another good reason, in my opinion, to be looking at reasonable alternatives.
Plenty of people run without precision mods, and undampened assaults are probably the most common suit. So it is a competitive advantage.
It's not a unique advantage, but that wasn't my point.
I'm not saying Amarr scouts are fine. Whilst I don't think they are terrible, I agree they are less desirable than the other scouts. I just don't want the scans to be buffed to OP levels, when I don't consider them too bad in the first place.
It's difficult for the Amarr scout's unique scanning advantage to very significant, when both Gallente and Caldari scouts also have bonuses to scanning.
I agree that moving away from scanning would be good. This is another reason. Although I don't think it would do any harm to leave it's scanning the way it is now.
What makes you think shared passives can be removed? I don't think Rattati's table of detection is evidence of a change of stance. Notice how all his scenarios have squad shared passives. I'm not even sure that I want this to change anyway.
At the end of the day, in a world where active scans (and logi passives) are so effective, you would have to have very powerful passives for it to be a worthwhile unique advantage on the battlefield, and I don't think that more powerful scanning is on many Dust player's list of desires. |
Carmine Lotte
Talon Havocs
22
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 16:36:00 -
[72] - Quote
No need for removal of EWAR on AmScout just replace biotics with falloff penalties reduction.
in needs to passive scan damped scouts at least 20 meters any less and any scout with a kinkat will be within range of a shotgun blast or Nova knife-by. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
14
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 16:40:00 -
[73] - Quote
I'm with you, Varoth. My thinking is simply that if the Devs are going to spend time and effort fixing the AM Scout, that time and effort would be best spent on a fix which sets it apart. Otherwise, we'll remain without a clear and succinct answer to the very reasonable question, "What's the AM Scout the best at?" |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
14
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 16:49:00 -
[74] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:If we were to move the AM Scout bonus away from passive scans, his new-found role(s) would be insulated against upcoming EWAR changes. This is another good reason, in my opinion, to be looking at reasonable alternatives. 1. Would you promote moving all racial suit bonuses away from eWar? Or just for that one suit? I haven't made up my mind, so I'm just asking. 2. My personal stance is that the current AmScout bonus may become very useful once the active scans have received a tweak. You are right in saying that right now active scans are quite simply superior. Until I know how actives are going to change I have trouble deciding what should be done. 3. Subjectively I wouldn't advocate discussing both changes at once.
1. No, I don't think so. I believe that EWAR and Mobility should both remain strengths associated with the Scout class. I don't think that we could successfully split Mobility alone across four unique archetypes.
2. Very possible. If passives were sufficiently buffed and actives sufficiently nerfed, the AM Scout could very well reemerge as a competitive recon unit. Whether or not that'd be good for balance is debatable.
3. Agreed. Though I think we'd do well to recognize that any fix we propose today might prove a wash tomorrow. If Fix A (for instance) is insulated against upcoming "sweeping changes", I believe it preferable to Fix B as it is less likely a waste of developer time and resources. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
14
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 17:38:00 -
[75] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Hence Why I'm asking ...
Understood. Some suggestions:
Quick and Dirty Band-Aid Fix
Set AM Scout base scan range equal to Logi base scan range. Would help the AM Scout a little; wouldn't hurt anything else. Wouldn't make Scouts any less grumpy about Logi base scan range, but that's beside the point and an altogether separate issue :P
Alternative
If Rattati's set on keeping the AM Scout EWAR bonus, I'd propose holding off on a "proper fix" until after the EWAR changes.
Alternative
If Rattati's open to moving the AM Scout bonus away from EWAR, I'd propose the following:
* Precision Bonus ----> Biotic Bonus
* Precision Bonus ----> Uplink Bonus
* Precision Bonus ----> ScP Headshot and Dmg Bonus |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 17:55:00 -
[76] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:I'm with you, Varoth. My thinking is simply that if the Devs are going to spend time and effort fixing the AM Scout, that their time and effort would be best spent on a fix which sets it apart. Otherwise, we'll remain without a clear and succinct answer to the very reasonable question, "What's the AM Scout the best at?"
Devs haven't promised to touch the amscout. I'm doing this on my own to see if I can bring something focused and complete to the devs.
I actually like to see things be used, not sitting in a corner by themselves
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
|
Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 18:32:00 -
[77] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:I'm with you, Varoth. My thinking is simply that if the Devs are going to spend time and effort fixing the AM Scout, that their time and effort would be best spent on a fix which sets it apart. Otherwise, we'll remain without a clear and succinct answer to the very reasonable question, "What's the AM Scout the best at?"
Hear, hear!
There are four main races in DUST514: The Amarr, bla, bla, and bla.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
14
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 21:44:00 -
[78] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:
Hear, hear!
Haerr here? |
Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
834
|
Posted - 2015.09.03 01:25:00 -
[79] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I still think biotics man is pointless. 1. It doesn't fit lore since the Amarr only have cardiac regs for biotics. 2. Giving it biotics either a. doesn't give it anything another suit can't do just as well or B. Steps on another scout suits role.
We could have the base precision on Amarr scouts be lower than they're counterparts. Or buff the bonus to precision to 7.5% per level. Scout hunter is a viable role. Although honestly I think the Caldari Scout should be the scout hunter, but as it is Amarr Scout can sufficiently fill the role.
I used that suit for one purpose: Hunting. I relied heavily on my ability to keep up with any and every suit, thus the reason why I used Biotics. I relied more so on my experience in CQC as opposed to long range or medium. Granted during the time I was active it was by far, the most gimped and under-powered suit but that's what I loved about it, no one dared used it. So I sat down crunched some numbers on proto-fits.com and got to work. I wanted something that can go just as fast if not keep up at least with a Mini. I followed lore as best as I could, I hunt them down with maxed passives and what-ever I didn't pick up on my suit I used what I was taught.
I encompass every single aspect of that suit to Survive. I had in total about 400+ health (200 ish shields and 242 armor) the suit was meant for balancing mobility, offense and defense all in one. I still to this day EXCLUSIVELY on that suit when it was released have received a 5.0+ KDR. You can make ANYTHING work in this game, if you are committed to trial and errors in return. 11.21 is the fastest you can make a Scout run, but it SEVERELY gimps the suit, so everyone would slap E-War or Armor instead to give them some confidence but, unfortunately it always slows them down. Scouts run fast, but I was always right their behind them. |
XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.03 02:05:00 -
[80] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:I still think biotics man is pointless. 1. It doesn't fit lore since the Amarr only have cardiac regs for biotics. 2. Giving it biotics either a. doesn't give it anything another suit can't do just as well or B. Steps on another scout suits role.
We could have the base precision on Amarr scouts be lower than they're counterparts. Or buff the bonus to precision to 7.5% per level. Scout hunter is a viable role. Although honestly I think the Caldari Scout should be the scout hunter, but as it is Amarr Scout can sufficiently fill the role. I used that suit for one purpose: Hunting. I relied heavily on my ability to keep up with any and every suit, thus the reason why I used Biotics. I relied more so on my experience in CQC as opposed to long range or medium. Granted during the time I was active it was by far, the most gimped and under-powered suit but that's what I loved about it, no one dared used it. So I sat down crunched some numbers on proto-fits.com and got to work. I wanted something that can go just as fast if not keep up at least with a Mini. I followed lore as best as I could, I hunt them down with maxed passives and what-ever I didn't pick up on my suit I used what I was taught. I encompass every single aspect of that suit to Survive. I had in total about 400+ health (200 ish shields and 242 armor) the suit was meant for balancing mobility, offense and defense all in one. I still to this day EXCLUSIVELY on that suit when it was released have received a 5.0+ KDR. You can make ANYTHING work in this game, if you are committed to trial and errors in return. 11.21 is the fastest you can make a Scout run, but it SEVERELY gimps the suit, so everyone would slap E-War or Armor instead to give them some confidence but, unfortunately it always slows them down. Scouts run fast, but I was always right their behind them. yep
Yo Lightning, you may not know me by this character, but want to run scouts together sometime?
Bittervet
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Protected Void
Nos Nothi
456
|
Posted - 2015.09.03 11:25:00 -
[81] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Hence Why I'm asking ... Understood. Some suggestions: Quick and Dirty Band-Aid FixSet AM Scout base scan range equal to Logi base scan range. Would help the AM Scout a little; wouldn't hurt anything else. Wouldn't make Scouts any less grumpy about Logi base scan range, but that's beside the point and an altogether separate issue :P AlternativeIf Rattati's set on keeping the AM Scout EWAR bonus, I'd propose holding off on a "proper fix" until after the EWAR changes. AlternativeIf Rattati's open to moving the AM Scout bonus away from EWAR, I'd propose the following: * Precision Bonus ----> Biotic Bonus * Precision Bonus ----> Uplink Bonus * Precision Bonus ----> ScP Headshot and Dmg Bonus
My preference would be the Quick and dirty fix, at least until active scans receive a nerf. After that, passive scans can be revisited.
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Dont-be-a-D1CK
Dead Man's Game
174
|
Posted - 2015.09.03 11:47:00 -
[82] - Quote
Make Range Amplifiers a viable option and the AM Scout is set in a good place...
- best scanning + hp + stamina .. it's in a much better place than it is given credit for
With better range it would be spot on
Ban me once, shame on me
Ban me twice, shame on you !!!
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
14
|
Posted - 2015.09.03 12:40:00 -
[83] - Quote
Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote:Make Range Amplifiers a viable option and the AM Scout is set in a good place...
* Better AM Scout
But also ...
* Major Buff to CA Scout
* Major Buff to Logi, Blobs, Sentinels, HMG Efficiency
* Major Nerf to MN Scout and Backstab / NK Efficiency |
Odin The Allfather
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
No Context
0
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Posted - 2015.09.03 16:46:00 -
[84] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:My two cents:
Change the AM Scout bonus to a flat efficacy bonus to biotics. The Triathlete Scout. The Biotic Man.
Why so My Sent Ak.0 with 1867 eHP can get one shot with a melee.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
14
|
Posted - 2015.09.03 16:52:00 -
[85] - Quote
Odin The Allfather wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:My two cents:
Change the AM Scout bonus to a flat efficacy bonus to biotics. The Triathlete Scout. The Biotic Man. Why so My Sent Ak.0 with 1867 eHP can get one shot with a melee.
No. How would that even be possible? The AM Scout has two high slots and base melee of 80. Even if its biotic bonus were ridiculously high (which wouldn't happen), the Commando would still make for a better melee fit and MedFrame for a better mariobro. |
axis alpha
Neural Union
925
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Posted - 2015.09.03 17:03:00 -
[86] - Quote
What ever you do don't take away the precision.
I say the best way to help the amarr scout is buff range amps by a small amount
Stamina and precision is a keeper in my book. People just need to learn how to fit it.
Hullaballo and howdy doo! Musty prawns, and Timbucktu.
Yeltsibee and hibbertyhoo
Kick 'em in the dishpan. Hoo hoo hoo!
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.03 17:42:00 -
[87] - Quote
Protected Void wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Hence Why I'm asking ... Understood. Some suggestions: Quick and Dirty Band-Aid FixSet AM Scout base scan range equal to Logi base scan range. Would help the AM Scout a little; wouldn't hurt anything else. Wouldn't make Scouts any less grumpy about Logi base scan range, but that's beside the point and an altogether separate issue :P AlternativeIf Rattati's set on keeping the AM Scout EWAR bonus, I'd propose holding off on a "proper fix" until after the EWAR changes. AlternativeIf Rattati's open to moving the AM Scout bonus away from EWAR, I'd propose the following: * Precision Bonus ----> Biotic Bonus * Precision Bonus ----> Uplink Bonus * Precision Bonus ----> ScP Headshot and Dmg Bonus My preference would be the Quick and dirty fix, at least until active scans receive a nerf. After that, passive scans can be revisited.
Giving them bonuses to both range and precision would be a less dirty way of achieving the same thing (but with less stamina). I just don't see why we need a third scout with a scanning bonus, especially when scouts aren't even that good at scanning. Nerfing scout's scanning relative to other suits was a major part of the design of the last EWAR changes. It seems a bit foolish to reverse this. We don't need more scout scanning. Better to come up with something more unique I think. |
Tebu Gan
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.09.03 21:10:00 -
[88] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:This is a simple question.
Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work?
Not trolling, and not judging.
Put your two cents here. Not judging, what alternate universe is this? The one where beer falls into my lap from the sky when I desire it, and the world ceases to exist save when I deign to acknowledge it.
Can you send some of that beer to this universe please. |
maybe deadcatz
the nomercs
643
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Posted - 2015.09.03 23:19:00 -
[89] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:My two cents:
Change the AM Scout bonus to a flat efficacy bonus to biotics. The Triathlete Scout. The Biotic Man. Seconding this one. EWAR needs a lot of work as it is and the passive scanning role is already occupied by both Gal and Cal scouts. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/230/771Truly, let the Amscout be the bench press scout.
Thirding this one. Though that fit is dumber than a box of rocks.
The biotics thing would be better than the current capabilities the am scout has(I am a AM scout)
And maybe give it a sidearm reload speed bonue per level
Because you know. The amarr are just flashy that way.
Seeing as I run mostly biotics on my fits.(to take advantage of the stamina)
A armour rep(that heavy armour reps slow and fall damage is horrible with only 75 sheild.
And the all important cardiac regulator.
Because the longer I last the better I am.
'Perhaps fate will bless us,before this world opens its maw and swallows us'-space pirate encrypted log.
They all died.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.09.04 14:39:00 -
[90] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:This is a simple question.
Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work?
Not trolling, and not judging.
Put your two cents here. Not judging, what alternate universe is this? The one where beer falls into my lap from the sky when I desire it, and the world ceases to exist save when I deign to acknowledge it. Can you send some of that beer to this universe please.
It can only happen when the stars align, and I am able to afford a ticket to fanfest.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
980
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Posted - 2015.09.04 16:06:00 -
[91] - Quote
so I finally caved in and skilled a single point into it, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that it is simply not UP like most people would have you believe
I use two main setups both with 2 proto precision mods
the first fit I use as a long distance running suit with a single damp for stealth 2 if I start to get scanned I switch out an enhanced reactive plate for the extra damp while I reserve two lows for enhanced cardio regs
this fit I use uplinks on to get behind enemy lines or to get to a long distance point first, it has enough stamina to run well over 500m running at 7.64m/s with biotics at max it has 739 stamina and 127 recovery rate with cardio regs skill at only level 3 and only a single point into the am scout, it also has a precision of 23 for the middle ring with the two complex scan mods with max core skills my middle ring is at 15m
the second fit I use has stacked enhanced reactive armor mods, I use this mainly to hunt for other scouts especially those that are double damped with cloaks if they get in my inner ring which is withing 6m I will detect them keeping me safe from NK users while most shotgun users will get this close as well the extra HP helps me survive a few stray hits and a few direct hits from a far meaning I can react quickly against scouts even if I don't happen to pick them up right away and it gives me enough health and regen to pick off unsuspecting targets and with a base stamina of about 330 and a regen of 39 I can still run for a reasonable amount of time while only losing about 0.2 base speed from the reactive extenders
the weapons and equipment used vary sometimes depending on what exactly I am trying to do but usually I use an AR or ACR anything automatic that can do at least 300 dps to either shields or armor is good against most scouts and can still be used at range against other targets
taking what I have learned into account the only thing the AM scout lacks is speed as it is the slowest of the scouts so a simple 1% or 2% increase to kinetic catalyzer module efficiency would be enough to make it a better runner but it would still certainly fall short of a min scout except it makes up for it in stamina a 5% bonus would be a 0.6% increase on a proto kincat while a 10% increase would be 1.2% increase, if it rounds the number to the closest integer then 12.6% that it currently has would not benefit from a .6% increase it would remain as 13% rounded down but a 10% increase would make it 13.8 rounding it up to 14% total however if it is not rounded and it calculates the number as is then a 5% increase would be enough
click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
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