DUST Search - Theorycrafting the Amarr Scout

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Luther Mandrix wrote:

Is it possible to give a suit a Bonus that only can be applied to one class of suits?
Amarr scout bonus plus whatever to Scan Precision to seeing light suits only and a General scan percison to the other classes of suits.That way it could be a scout killer without being a killer of all dropsuits.

Strong Scan Precision is as much about detecting/avoiding threats as it is sniffing out infiltrators. Fit to maximize their strength at EWAR, these units weigh in at 250HP-350HP. They must choose every fight very carefully, and their survival depends largely upon detecting and assessing threats before they themselves are detected.

Restricting the AM Scout's scans to focus only on other Scouts would hurt the AM Scout more than it'd help.

I'd say "torch" rather than reduce.

I've managed to get a sentinel really low on the damps (compared to normal, and there's no guarantee that a bonus to only pick up scouts would spot that fatfit. Adipem, you know the baseline scout stuff better than me.

And if my triple-damped amsent can't get under that baseline, then an assault surely can.

Not sure what you're saying, Breakin. In case I was unclear, Luther's idea above would do more harm than good to the AM Scout. You can't hunt scouts if you're dead, and if you're blind to everything but Scouts, you'll definitely be dead.

As for your heavy, 3 complex damps will get your scan profile under 28dB Active Scans as well as all outer-ring passive scans. If you're interested in passive scan values, here's breakdown: Google Doc. To the right of the first sheet is a summary of scan profiles for all unit types.

WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.


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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.28 18:50:00 - [1] - Quote This is a simple question. Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work? Not trolling, and not judging. Put your two cents here. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.28 20:52:00 - [2] - Quote I am absolutely not thinking of using this thread as a jump-off point to exclude Amscouts from scout/assassin roles. Being able to overlap various roles seems to be more beneficial to play than the removal. For example: In my opinion the Minsent plays a lot like an assault with an HMG. Your Mileage may vary but it doesn't quite have that same level of brick and slow the other sentinels have. The amarr assault fitted a certain way often resembles something more akin to a sentinel with laser weapons. I've seen Gallente assauts that move nearly as fast as scouts to nova knife people. Saying I don't want the Amscout to be able to fill that role would be shortsighted. I'm asking if shifting the primary focus of the amscout away from roles it doesn't seem to fit in well with and towards a primary role more suited to a slower, heavier and bluntly more durable scout. I want to add to. not take away. If the bonuses for the amscout seem to fall flat, what bonuses would give the amscout a viable and interesting role on the field without being a carbon copy or mirror of one of the other scouts? When it works, the minscout is an excellent assassin/Speed skirmisher. Galscout is a nightmare to detect and such. Calscout is sort of the evil twin of the galscout only cooler looking. Do we want to try and shoehorn the Amscout fully into a niche solidly occupied or do we want to carve it a new niche that others can mimic, though it excels? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.29 09:46:00 - [3] - Quote Theoretically to add to this. I'm kicking around a frame skill bonus bit. Were it accepted the frame skills would have a racial flavor with the bonus carrying to specialist suits. So for the sake of moving forward, for the sake of the argument assume that the amarr scout can't be pushed to catch up to minmatar sprint because of mitigating factors. No guarantees of course. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.29 11:43:00 - [4] - Quote Sums up my original thoughts pretty well actually. I hadn't set my heart on biotics but that seems a solid option. Do we have any other suggestions for how the amscout might better perform? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.29 17:57:00 - [5] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: This is a simple question. Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work? Not trolling, and not judging. Put your two cents here. Gal scout is dampening and low power, high range scans. Caldari is dampening and high power, short range scans. Minmatar is speed and dampening. Amarr is durability and dampening. Personally, I like the idea of the Amarr scout being the go to "Low profile slayer". If you want to slap dampeners on an assault, it should be emulating the Amarr scout. That being said, you need to be VERY CAREFUL with HP values. If you aren't careful, Amarr scout will literally replace assaults. I'm actually thinking about pushing the utility for killing lightly-defended targets over any sort of HP buff honestly. I'd like to keep most of what is already there. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.30 20:28:00 - [6] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Luther Mandrix wrote: Is it possible to give a suit a Bonus that only can be applied to one class of suits? Amarr scout bonus plus whatever to Scan Precision to seeing light suits only and a General scan percison to the other classes of suits.That way it could be a scout killer without being a killer of all dropsuits. Strong Scan Precision is as much about detecting/avoiding threats as it is sniffing out infiltrators. Fit to maximize their strength at EWAR, these units weigh in at 250HP-350HP. They must choose every fight very carefully, and their survival depends largely upon detecting and assessing threats before they themselves are detected. Restricting the AM Scout's scans to focus only on other Scouts would hurt the AM Scout more than it'd help. I'd say "torch" rather than reduce. I've managed to get a sentinel really low on the damps (compared to normal, and there's no guarantee that a bonus to only pick up scouts would spot that fatfit. Adipem, you know the baseline scout stuff better than me. And if my triple-damped amsent can't get under that baseline, then an assault surely can. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.30 20:46:00 - [7] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Luther Mandrix wrote: Is it possible to give a suit a Bonus that only can be applied to one class of suits? Amarr scout bonus plus whatever to Scan Precision to seeing light suits only and a General scan percison to the other classes of suits.That way it could be a scout killer without being a killer of all dropsuits. Strong Scan Precision is as much about detecting/avoiding threats as it is sniffing out infiltrators. Fit to maximize their strength at EWAR, these units weigh in at 250HP-350HP. They must choose every fight very carefully, and their survival depends largely upon detecting and assessing threats before they themselves are detected. Restricting the AM Scout's scans to focus only on other Scouts would hurt the AM Scout more than it'd help. I'd say "torch" rather than reduce. I've managed to get a sentinel really low on the damps (compared to normal, and there's no guarantee that a bonus to only pick up scouts would spot that fatfit. Adipem, you know the baseline scout stuff better than me. And if my triple-damped amsent can't get under that baseline, then an assault surely can. Not sure what you're saying, Breakin. In case I was unclear, Luther's idea above would do more harm than good to the AM Scout. You can't hunt scouts if you're dead, and if you're blind to everything but Scouts, you'll definitely be dead. As for your heavy, 3 complex damps will get your scan profile under 28dB Active Scans as well as all outer-ring passive scans. If you're interested in passive scan values, here's breakdown: Google Doc. To the right of the first sheet is a summary of scan profiles for all unit types. I was saying that an amscout that only got a bonus to fighting scouts would be dead meat against anyone who even partially took EWAR seriously. and with ranges for scanning being absolute crap, the Amscout has excellent base sensory range... Within the optimal of a Breach Assault Rifle. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.09.02 04:08:00 - [8] - Quote what if the amscout's bonusing was for precision and range rather than dampening? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.09.02 14:06:00 - [9] - Quote Let's look at the triangle here. The scout skills are range, dampening and precision. so why not put range and precision to Amarr, Dampening and precision to gallente, dampening and range to Caldari, and Melee and biotics to minmatar? Gallente: Dampening and Precision Caldari: Range and Dampening Amarr: Precision and Range Minmatar: Hack and Slash/ Biotics WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.09.02 14:48:00 - [10] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: This is a simple question. Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work? Not trolling, and not judging. Put your two cents here. Not judging, what alternate universe is this? The one where beer falls into my lap from the sky when I desire it, and the world ceases to exist save when I deign to acknowledge it. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.09.02 15:52:00 - [11] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Let's look at the triangle here. The scout skills are range, dampening and precision. so why not put range and precision to Amarr, Dampening and precision to gallente, dampening and range to Caldari, and ~~Melee and biotics to minmatar~~? Gallente: Dampening and Precision Caldari: Range and Dampening Amarr: Precision and Range ~~Minmatar: Hack and Slash/ Biotics~~ My two cents: First and foremost, please don't mess with the MinScout unless you're giving it a better scan profile. This one's particularly delicate, as I believe performance statistics will indicate, and I believe it best left alone if at all possible. As for the AM Scout, a few more meters of Scan Range wouldn't hurt anything. Trading it stamina bonus (on the other hand) for those few more meters of scan range would definitely hurt more than help. Hence Why I'm asking things before I run my mouth about them. My problem is that base ranges are ass anyway, and IMHO if you can't see a target outside your center ring, there's not much point. that center ring is basically AR optimal. This is why I'm asking, really. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.09.02 17:55:00 - [12] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: ... I'm with you, Varoth. My thinking is simply that if the Devs are going to spend time and effort fixing the AM Scout, that their time and effort would be best spent on a fix which sets it apart. Otherwise, we'll remain without a clear and succinct answer to the very reasonable question, "What's the AM Scout the best at?" Devs haven't promised to touch the amscout. I'm doing this on my own to see if I can bring something focused and complete to the devs. I actually like to see things be used, not sitting in a corner by themselves WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.09.04 14:39:00 - [13] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: This is a simple question. Rather than shoehorning the Amscout into the recon role and assassination role (which is better handled by the other scouts) would it be better suited as a "Light Assault" intended for Fast Attack and Counter-Reconnaisance work? Not trolling, and not judging. Put your two cents here. Not judging, what alternate universe is this? The one where beer falls into my lap from the sky when I desire it, and the world ceases to exist save when I deign to acknowledge it. Can you send some of that beer to this universe please. It can only happen when the stars align, and I am able to afford a ticket to fanfest. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.