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hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
398
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Posted - 2015.08.02 09:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
By transferring the clone pack from the people that didn't show to the people that did. Its only fair for wasting everyone's time.
I understand you're all (CCP) worried about PC farming, but on the other side of the coin people are getting screwed out of an hour setting up and then having to play through, because the other team might pull in with a full 16 at any time. So, sitting there with no isk reward, no sp, and only 200 DK(without a DK market to spend it on), is a crap waste of time.
Stop wasting everyone's time, until theres a fix I refuse to PC.
"Make America Great Again"
Donald Trump 2016
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
785
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Posted - 2015.08.02 10:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
That's really annoying I agree..
But you know, I think it's only if the team who attacks that no show that the defenders should get their clones. Some corporations sometimes get attacked 3-4 times in 30min and they can't defend all battles. They might lose a district that way so it's already an important loss.
WON'T YOU PLEASE TAKE ME HOME !
-Sequal Rise
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jett it
MONSTER SYNERGY
142
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Posted - 2015.08.02 10:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
I agree to both of your post's Its a bunch of BS when they no show, big waste of time and effort setting up. Not just 1 persons time but 16 people. No shows should be fix to a point where it makes sense for the team fighting zero enemies to stay in that pc.
jettGaming - Youtube
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hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
398
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Posted - 2015.08.02 10:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:That's really annoying I agree..
But you know, I think it's only if the team who attacks that no show that the defenders should get their clones. Some corporations sometimes get attacked 3-4 times in 30min and they can't defend all battles. They might lose a district that way so it's already an important loss.
. I was thinking about that earlier,but you've solved it. Only attackers that no show forfeit their clones. Thats a complete idea that can be implemented that would totally solve no shows.
. Also if you happen to have a full 450 clone pack already, the clone pack can be divided equally between players, whatever the isk cost of that pack was. Or just do that normally and forget the clone pack transfer, but I like my 1st idea better.
"Make America Great Again"
Donald Trump 2016
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.08.02 11:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:That's really annoying I agree..
But you know, I think it's only if the team who attacks that no show that the defenders should get their clones. Some corporations sometimes get attacked 3-4 times in 30min and they can't defend all battles. They might lose a district that way so it's already an important loss.
Too easy to abuse, unfortunately.
What I can see happening is someone making an alt corp, inviting some new bros in and then using the resulting CP earnings to fund the free Clone Packs (provided they don't have districts) and then using those clone packs to attack the defending turf belonging to the main corporation. At which point, providing a no show, the clones would transfer and the defending corp just got a DK paycheck.
Alternatively, if it can only transfer clones to the district if it isn't at clone capacity, it'd just be used as a regeneration + locking mechanism for the district itself. Just got out of a really hard battle with low clones on the district? Attack it with your alt corp's clone pack and lock it up, aid in the regeneration.
And if you're being attacked 3-4 times in the span of 30m and can't defend all battles, you probably need to re-evaluate your timers or how much turf you have =P That sort of situation is one of the reasons PC 2.0 was put in place: Holding only what you can feasibly defend.
Aeon Amadi for CPM 2
Design A SKIN 2
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
786
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Posted - 2015.08.02 11:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well Aeon.. I'm not quiet use to PC 2.0 stuffs yet x) I just threw this idea out of my mind reading what the OP said. Unfortunatly, you're right, people will exploit this once again..
WON'T YOU PLEASE TAKE ME HOME !
-Sequal Rise
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.08.02 13:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:Well Aeon.. I'm not quiet use to PC 2.0 stuffs yet x) I just threw this idea out of my mind reading what the OP said. Unfortunatly, you're right, people will exploit this once again..
And they rightfully should, because unfortunately that's the only way to get CCP to fix things most of the time 
Aeon Amadi for CPM 2
Design A SKIN 2
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Sgt Kirk
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.08.02 13:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Sequal's Back wrote:Well Aeon.. I'm not quiet use to PC 2.0 stuffs yet x) I just threw this idea out of my mind reading what the OP said. Unfortunatly, you're right, people will exploit this once again.. And they rightfully should, because unfortunately that's the only way to get CCP to fix things most of the time
You make a good point Cat Merc.
-A vote for me is a vote for us
You can vote for CPM 2 [here]
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.08.02 13:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Sequal's Back wrote:Well Aeon.. I'm not quiet use to PC 2.0 stuffs yet x) I just threw this idea out of my mind reading what the OP said. Unfortunatly, you're right, people will exploit this once again.. And they rightfully should, because unfortunately that's the only way to get CCP to fix things most of the time You make a good point Cat Merc.
UK is best K.
Aeon Amadi for CPM 2
Design A SKIN 2
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MockHolliday
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
51
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Posted - 2015.08.02 13:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
How easy is it for an alt corp to collect CP? If the CP is hard to earn these attacks would dry up rather quickly. I think a real solution is no show corps will be frozen for 'x' amount of days. Maybe 3?
You no show, you cant attack, maybe even have a progressive punishment. Chasing CP with alt corps is annoying and a time drain. it would subside. |
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
194
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Posted - 2015.08.02 14:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Why are people touchy about no shows?
It is, and should remain an effective way to harass a larger, stronger group.
If a corp wants to earn and then spend their CP, why should they be restricted from it because it works at making big groups salty?
BTW, if you form up an hour before a PC, its your own fault for getting bored. Get better organized.
General Butt Naked - Biomassed
The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned
Only 9 more alts to go.
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.08.02 14:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:Why are people touchy about no shows?
It is, and should remain an effective way to harass a larger, stronger group.
If a corp wants to earn and then spend their CP, why should they be restricted from it because it works at making big groups salty?
BTW, if you form up an hour before a PC, its your own fault for getting bored. Get better organized.
I'm in agreement with you here.
Aeon Amadi for CPM 2
Design A SKIN 2
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Alaika Arbosa
No Context
2
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Posted - 2015.08.02 14:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Weaponized Boredom, deal with it
I <3 introducing reddots to ragdoll physics!
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
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Posted - 2015.08.02 14:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Eh, except a mechanic that only has the effect of "wasting time" is bad design really. This is an FPS game built around instances of matches. If a defender no shows they loose their district. If an attacker no shows? No consequence really at all except for wasted CP.
Mechanics should encourage players to actually fight and generate content. Defenders no showing and forcing an attacker to take three days to flip a district used to be the "boredom" punishment back in PC 1.0 and it was rightly fixed with the reup mechanic.
You no show a defense? You loose your district. There should be a similar incentive for an attacker to at least deploy a minimal amount of forces to a PC match.
If a corp completely no shows the CP wallet should be frozen for a period of X days (no CP in and no ability to spend CP) or a CP penalty to the wallet equivalent to the CP cost of the attack launched or a set amount that gives pause to leaving a battle completely empty.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
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Posted - 2015.08.02 15:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
MockHolliday wrote:How easy is it for an alt corp to collect CP? If the CP is hard to earn these attacks would dry up rather quickly. I think a real solution is no show corps will be frozen for 'x' amount of days. Maybe 3?
You no show, you cant attack, maybe even have a progressive punishment. Chasing CP with alt corps is annoying and a time drain. it would subside.
That penalty is avoidable by one dude visiting the battle.
A CPM2 Candidate!
More info
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
194
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Posted - 2015.08.02 15:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Eh, except a mechanic that only has the effect of "wasting time" is bad design really.
If a corp is making a strategic play to weaken your resolve, it isn't about just wasting time, its about burning out your people. If they can't do it through direct combat, but they can because people won't sit around in a loud chat channel that has no controlling figures in it to get a slot, then so be it.
You could always stop these multi stacked no shows if you held less territory.
Kain Spero wrote:
This is an FPS game built around instances of matches. If a defender no shows they loose their district. If an attacker no shows? No consequence really at all except for wasted CP.
Which is a consequence, because those CP could have been spent attacking someone they think they can beat in a straight up fight. They made a choice to send an attack, and then no show. You have choices as well.
Kain Spero wrote:
Mechanics should encourage players to actually fight and generate content. Defenders no showing and forcing an attacker to take three days to flip a district used to be the "boredom" punishment back in PC 1.0 and it was rightly fixed with the reup mechanic.
Risk aversion is never going to be beaten out of people through mechanics changes. But if you really wanted to increase competition, you would put in an arbitrary corp size limit, so that people couldn't pool together out of fear of losing. Not that it would work, but you don't increase competition by telling the weaker groups they are not allowed to harass the bigger corps because it bores them.
Kain Spero wrote:
You no show a defense? You loose your district. There should be a similar incentive for an attacker to at least deploy a minimal amount of forces to a PC match.
If a corp completely no shows the CP wallet should be frozen for a period of X days (no CP in and no ability to spend CP) or a CP penalty to the wallet equivalent to the CP cost of the attack launched or a set amount that gives pause to leaving a battle completely empty.
So you're ok with just having one person show up to a PC? They sit in their redline, no one on your team ever sees them, but at least its not a no show right?
General Butt Naked - Biomassed
The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned
Only 9 more alts to go.
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.08.02 15:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:
If a corp completely no shows the CP wallet should be frozen for a period of X days (no CP in and no ability to spend CP) or a CP penalty to the wallet equivalent to the CP cost of the attack launched or a set amount that gives pause to leaving a battle completely empty.
Why...? Because they made you field sixteen people in the hopes that they'd show? I don't see a problem with it. I'm sure the argument will be 'stacked timers' but If you can't field 16 people to defend the district in a real attack than you don't deserve the district anyway.
Aeon Amadi for CPM 2
Design A SKIN 2
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
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Posted - 2015.08.02 16:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
MockHolliday wrote:How easy is it for an alt corp to collect CP? If the CP is hard to earn these attacks would dry up rather quickly. I think a real solution is no show corps will be frozen for 'x' amount of days. Maybe 3?
You no show, you cant attack, maybe even have a progressive punishment. Chasing CP with alt corps is annoying and a time drain. it would subside.
Perhaps put the corp on "probation" and charge normal clone pack prices for repeated no shows.
I think we are stuck with this now though, perhaps getting the DK market open would have shown the peasants something worth fighting for. |
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
496
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Posted - 2015.08.02 16:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
My corp is grinding out cp faster than we can use it.
As a result we have begun playing "which battle is the real battle?" A tactic you will soon see commonplace.
Nobody needs 20 districts, I don't even want one. But if I can make it hell on the ones who find it fun to hold all that land. Guess what? It becomes fun for us.
On a side note, I've thought about selling our attacks. Win win.
Prolly charge 40 mil a pop.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Cody Sietz
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
4
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Posted - 2015.08.02 16:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
I like it, it's like the attacking team dropped CRUs but never bothered to activate the clones inside.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
501
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Posted - 2015.08.02 16:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Just think, after 7 no shows in a row, I field a 1.4b sp team.
Profit. 
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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deezy dabest
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
2
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Posted - 2015.08.02 17:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:Why are people touchy about no shows?
It is, and should remain an effective way to harass a larger, stronger group.
If a corp wants to earn and then spend their CP, why should they be restricted from it because it works at making big groups salty?
BTW, if you form up an hour before a PC, its your own fault for getting bored. Get better organized.
^^^ I do not believe it could be said any better.
Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
3
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Posted - 2015.08.02 18:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:MockHolliday wrote:How easy is it for an alt corp to collect CP? If the CP is hard to earn these attacks would dry up rather quickly. I think a real solution is no show corps will be frozen for 'x' amount of days. Maybe 3?
You no show, you cant attack, maybe even have a progressive punishment. Chasing CP with alt corps is annoying and a time drain. it would subside. That penalty is avoidable by one dude visiting the battle.
Yes but you assume a no show is simply catagorized as no enemy players on the other team, a more exact definition could be exacted so that the no-showing team would have to go out of their way to qualify as a no-show but still inflict boredom.
It should more or less consist of
the team having less than 8 players
and/or
the team fails to hack any objectives
In both cases the enemy team is required to show up in force and even if a full team shows they must take some action they can't AFK in the MCC. I would have included a death by the agressors but if the defending team no-shows I wouldn't want the possibility of the attackers taking the penalty for the defenders no-show. |
Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
3
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Posted - 2015.08.02 18:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Since some of you believe this is working as intended I will tell you why it is flawed since the first step to solving a problem is identifying it. The whole idea of PC is huge risk huge reward, so why is their a no risk huge reward aspect put into the game.
No showing requires:
no isk
no players
no planning
no financial reprecussions
and since the no-showing corp has no districts their is no risk of retaliation
Reward:
Potential timer stack
Wearing down your opponent
Preventing clones from being moved which prevents
reinforcing weak districts and
launching attacks
if a corp wins a battle but has insufficient clones for an immediate re-up and their district to launch the re-up is tied up w/ a no-show they must either start over letting them regen essentially voiding a battle or lose 30mil by throwing a clone pack at it.
the no-show may prevent the sale of clones at a more tactical time
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MockHolliday
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
52
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Posted - 2015.08.02 18:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
A healthy fact would be to post what CCP wants PC to be. Then try to obtain that goal. Fact or not I always saw PC as a large game of Risk. A highly competitive option for players to feel part of a bigger "game". Is this accurate?
I am not sure how prevalent no shows are but CCP does. Maybe it is small. Maybe the CP mechanism is working as intended. |
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
502
|
Posted - 2015.08.02 18:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Omg the tear collection factor in this thread is impossible to gauge!
My HAV are fueled for the next millennium.
Honestly. All I see is "why are so tuff to hold 20 districts? Stahp making us du theengs. QQ QQ NOT FAIR"
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Alaika Arbosa
No Context
2
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Posted - 2015.08.02 19:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Omg the tear collection factor in this thread is impossible to gauge!
My HAV are fueled for the next millennium.
Honestly. All I see is "why are so tuff to hold 20 districts? Stahp making us du theengs. QQ QQ NOT FAIR"
I think it is hilarious too.
No, you can't come up with creative ways to fight us that don't fit into our paradigm of fighting!!
No fair, you should be forced to fight us on our terms so we can feel good about ourselves rather than imploding due to boredom until we just give up and you can take our District when we no-show because you've successfully trained us to not pay attention!!
I Love this thread.
I <3 introducing reddots to ragdoll physics!
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
3
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Posted - 2015.08.02 19:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Omg the tear collection factor in this thread is impossible to gauge!
My HAV are fueled for the next millennium.
Honestly. All I see is "why are so tuff to hold 20 districts? Stahp making us du theengs. QQ QQ NOT FAIR"
lol you talk about people with districts having to do things but the No-showing corp has to do nothing the hypocrosy is real. |
DEATH THE KlD
Imperfect - Bastards
279
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Posted - 2015.08.02 19:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
"PC is for competition" what a complete joke... CCP look at your forum scrubs advocating no shows in PC..hahaha
Let's just remove PC all together |
Alaika Arbosa
No Context
2
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Posted - 2015.08.02 19:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Devadander wrote:Omg the tear collection factor in this thread is impossible to gauge!
My HAV are fueled for the next millennium.
Honestly. All I see is "why are so tuff to hold 20 districts? Stahp making us du theengs. QQ QQ NOT FAIR"
lol you talk about people with districts having to do things but the No-showing corp has to do nothing the hypocrosy is real.
if you want to hold district you have to work for it. if I want to hold a district all I have to do is spend command points, launch the attack, succeed in the attack and then hope no one weaponizes boredom against me.
There is no hypocrisy here, only your butt hurt
I <3 introducing reddots to ragdoll physics!
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
502
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Posted - 2015.08.02 20:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
I will be giving districts we claim away for free in my local.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe.
1
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Posted - 2015.08.02 20:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
The particular solution that's suggested in the OP won't work, because then teams could just spam clone packs at themselves, no show, and pick up the extra clones/rewards/etc. in addition to keeping their districts eternally untouchable (locking).
I've been saying this for awhile, including in feedback before the changes to PC dropped in the first place: There needs to be a system that deems a team to have lost if that team doesn't have a minimum number of players (somewhere between 4-10) on their team as the match starts. The match just instantly ends, declaring the team that showed up the victor. If both teams don't show, the defender wins.
The above needs to happen, but it won't necessarily stop the no-shows. It'll just take the sting out of them. One idea that has been kicked around is reintroducing some kind of nominal ISK fee for launching the attack in the first place. Somewhere between 1m-6m ISK. That amount really shouldn't be difficult for a corp to collect (as compared to the old 20-80m for a single pack at various points), but it should be enough to make them think "dropping this pack and no showing is wasteful".
Have a pony
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
3
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Posted - 2015.08.02 20:06:00 -
[33] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Devadander wrote:Omg the tear collection factor in this thread is impossible to gauge!
My HAV are fueled for the next millennium.
Honestly. All I see is "why are so tuff to hold 20 districts? Stahp making us du theengs. QQ QQ NOT FAIR"
I think it is hilarious too. No, you can't come up with creative ways to fight us that don't fit into our paradigm of fighting!! No fair, you should be forced to fight us on our terms so we can feel good about ourselves rather than imploding due to boredom until we just give up and you can take our District when we no-show because you've successfully trained us to not pay attention!! I Love this thread.
I would rather fight my way to defeat than no-show my way to victory. We are not disputing the tactic we are disputing the no-risk factor, he very foundations of PC wre built on Risk vs. Reward so why should we allow a system that does not follow that. What bothers me the most is that your wrong their is no long drawn out meta the smaller corps just can't beat the larger corps in PC, Pubs, or Fac war so the only way to fight is to not fight if the at least had an end game you could credit them with that but their is no end game, no conquest, just an abuse of the system people are exploiting the system but not for monetary game but to destroy PC in itself. |
Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe.
1
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Posted - 2015.08.02 20:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Kain Spero wrote:
If a corp completely no shows the CP wallet should be frozen for a period of X days (no CP in and no ability to spend CP) or a CP penalty to the wallet equivalent to the CP cost of the attack launched or a set amount that gives pause to leaving a battle completely empty.
Why...? Because they made you field sixteen people in the hopes that they'd show? I don't see a problem with it. I'm sure the argument will be 'stacked timers' but If you can't field 16 people to defend the district in a real attack than you don't deserve the district anyway.
This is some of the laziest reasoning I've seen anywhere in the community, and I'm kinda surprised to see it from you Aeon.
Mechanics which discourage the creation of content or fights and punish people who organize and DO show up to play the actual game are completely undesirable. PC takes people's time. Time organizing battles, managing districts, preparing for fights, and then playing them out. Everyone could spend that time doing a whole number of other things, both in game and out of it, if they're not going to get any content. Sitting around on the starmap or in a war barge waiting for a team that never appears isn't content.
It's incredible that people sit around forum-warrior'ing and then deign to judge that groups of 16+ people deserve to have their time completely wasted extremely frequently, and that this is an okay situation to foster within the game mechanics. I haven't sat around providing feedback about PC for years so that we can lazily dismiss clear flaws in the design which will push Molden Heath to become even more (somehow?) of a ghost town.
At the end of the day, people play this game to fight FPS battles. Encouraging an environment where that doesn't happen within the game mechanics is a fantastic way to further deflate the player base.
Have a pony
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
502
|
Posted - 2015.08.02 20:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Devadander wrote:Omg the tear collection factor in this thread is impossible to gauge!
My HAV are fueled for the next millennium.
Honestly. All I see is "why are so tuff to hold 20 districts? Stahp making us du theengs. QQ QQ NOT FAIR"
I think it is hilarious too. No, you can't come up with creative ways to fight us that don't fit into our paradigm of fighting!! No fair, you should be forced to fight us on our terms so we can feel good about ourselves rather than imploding due to boredom until we just give up and you can take our District when we no-show because you've successfully trained us to not pay attention!! I Love this thread. I would rather fight my way to defeat than no-show my way to victory. We are not disputing the tactic we are disputing the no-risk factor, he very foundations of PC wre built on Risk vs. Reward so why should we allow a system that does not follow that. What bothers me the most is that your wrong their is no long drawn out meta the smaller corps just can't beat the larger corps in PC, Pubs, or Fac war so the only way to fight is to not fight if the at least had an end game you could credit them with that but their is no end game, no conquest, just an abuse of the system people are exploiting the system but not for monetary game but to destroy PC in itself.
Now you have to ask yourselves.
Is he going to show up, or not?
We will be launching very real attacks. But only we know when.
You know, kind of like a surprise. You guys like surprises yes?
We just make more cp than we need. HTFU
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
502
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Posted - 2015.08.02 20:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
You could always save some stress and just buy my attacks.
Or bribe us not too.
Either one.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
502
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Posted - 2015.08.02 20:30:00 -
[37] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Kain Spero wrote:
If a corp completely no shows the CP wallet should be frozen for a period of X days (no CP in and no ability to spend CP) or a CP penalty to the wallet equivalent to the CP cost of the attack launched or a set amount that gives pause to leaving a battle completely empty.
Why...? Because they made you field sixteen people in the hopes that they'd show? I don't see a problem with it. I'm sure the argument will be 'stacked timers' but If you can't field 16 people to defend the district in a real attack than you don't deserve the district anyway. This is some of the laziest reasoning I've seen anywhere in the community, and I'm kinda surprised to see it from you Aeon. Mechanics which discourage the creation of content or fights and punish people who organize and DO show up to play the actual game are completely undesirable. PC takes people's time. Time organizing battles, managing districts, preparing for fights, and then playing them out. Everyone could spend that time doing a whole number of other things, both in game and out of it, if they're not going to get any content. Sitting around on the starmap or in a war barge waiting for a team that never appears isn't content. It's incredible that people sit around forum-warrior'ing and then deign to judge that groups of 16+ people deserve to have their time completely wasted extremely frequently, and that this is an okay situation to foster within the game mechanics. I haven't sat around providing feedback about PC for years so that we can lazily dismiss clear flaws in the design which will push Molden Heath to become even more (somehow?) of a ghost town. At the end of the day, people play this game to fight FPS battles. Encouraging an environment where that doesn't happen within the game mechanics is a fantastic way to further deflate the player base.
Next target identified.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
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Posted - 2015.08.02 20:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Devadander wrote:Omg the tear collection factor in this thread is impossible to gauge!
My HAV are fueled for the next millennium.
Honestly. All I see is "why are so tuff to hold 20 districts? Stahp making us du theengs. QQ QQ NOT FAIR"
lol you talk about people with districts having to do things but the No-showing corp has to do nothing the hypocrosy is real.
I mean if the community really thinks that no shows should be legit tactics I guess we just go all the way and eliminate the ability to reup on attacks with more than 100 clones. Make the defenders and attackers on equal footing about who is going to play dodge 514. 
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Kain Spero wrote:
If a corp completely no shows the CP wallet should be frozen for a period of X days (no CP in and no ability to spend CP) or a CP penalty to the wallet equivalent to the CP cost of the attack launched or a set amount that gives pause to leaving a battle completely empty.
Why...? Because they made you field sixteen people in the hopes that they'd show? I don't see a problem with it. I'm sure the argument will be 'stacked timers' but If you can't field 16 people to defend the district in a real attack than you don't deserve the district anyway. This is some of the laziest reasoning I've seen anywhere in the community, and I'm kinda surprised to see it from you Aeon. Mechanics which discourage the creation of content or fights and punish people who organize and DO show up to play the actual game are completely undesirable. PC takes people's time. Time organizing battles, managing districts, preparing for fights, and then playing them out. Everyone could spend that time doing a whole number of other things, both in game and out of it, if they're not going to get any content. Sitting around on the starmap or in a war barge waiting for a team that never appears isn't content. It's incredible that people sit around forum-warrior'ing and then deign to judge that groups of 16+ people deserve to have their time completely wasted extremely frequently, and that this is an okay situation to foster within the game mechanics. I haven't sat around providing feedback about PC for years so that we can lazily dismiss clear flaws in the design which will push Molden Heath to become even more (somehow?) of a ghost town. At the end of the day, people play this game to fight FPS battles. Encouraging an environment where that doesn't happen within the game mechanics is a fantastic way to further deflate the player base.
I'm not of the volition of telling people what they should do with their CP or how they should go about fighting their wars. Clone Packs were much more expensive before and it was a completely legitimate and valid tactic to buy one, throw it at an enemy, and then stack a different timer to make them either choose between fighting one or the other or forcing them to field enough for both.
It's just as valid a tactic as having a single A-team constantly being fielded for one battle after the other because of the frankly ridiculous concept that you can only ever attack their territory within a small window of the day and frankly I don't see anything wrong with it. The tactical use of a bait and switch is completely fine in the realm of warfare.
But maybe if the reasonings were better presented than "I don't want to be bored after preparing for an hour and a half" or "I don't like uncertainty" I'd be much more willing to play ball but at the moment that's all that is being presented.
Aeon Amadi for CPM 2
Design A SKIN 2
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
503
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Devadander wrote:Omg the tear collection factor in this thread is impossible to gauge!
My HAV are fueled for the next millennium.
Honestly. All I see is "why are so tuff to hold 20 districts? Stahp making us du theengs. QQ QQ NOT FAIR"
lol you talk about people with districts having to do things but the No-showing corp has to do nothing the hypocrosy is real. I mean if the community really thinks that no shows should be legit tactics I guess we just go all the way and eliminate the ability to reup on attacks with more than 100 clones. Make the defenders and attackers on equal footing about who is going to play dodge 514.
Are you blind? The no show IS a legit tactic. Maybe some scrubs will never actually show. But for a small corp that really wants to fight, its perfect.
Break morale, wear down the enemies spirits, guerrilla warfare.
I will do some fake attacks, yes. Its up to you, the landholder, to guess when the real one comes.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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nelo kazuma
Ecce Initio RLC.
RUST415
328
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Sequal's Back wrote:That's really annoying I agree..
But you know, I think it's only if the team who attacks that no show that the defenders should get their clones. Some corporations sometimes get attacked 3-4 times in 30min and they can't defend all battles. They might lose a district that way so it's already an important loss. Too easy to abuse, unfortunately. What I can see happening is someone making an alt corp, inviting some new bros in and then using the resulting CP earnings to fund the free Clone Packs (provided they don't have districts) and then using those clone packs to attack the defending turf belonging to the main corporation. At which point, providing a no show, the clones would transfer and the defending corp just got a DK paycheck. Alternatively, if it can only transfer clones to the district if it isn't at clone capacity, it'd just be used as a regeneration + locking mechanism for the district itself. Just got out of a really hard battle with low clones on the district? Attack it with your alt corp's clone pack and lock it up, aid in the regeneration. And if you're being attacked 3-4 times in the span of 30m and can't defend all battles, you probably need to re-evaluate your timers or how much turf you have =P That sort of situation is one of the reasons PC 2.0 was put in place: Holding only what you can feasibly defend.
Agree with aeon on this one you shouldnt have more than u can defend
FOR THE STATE ^(-_-) Cal Loyalist For Life
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Alaika Arbosa
No Context
2
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Devadander wrote:Omg the tear collection factor in this thread is impossible to gauge!
My HAV are fueled for the next millennium.
Honestly. All I see is "why are so tuff to hold 20 districts? Stahp making us du theengs. QQ QQ NOT FAIR"
I think it is hilarious too. No, you can't come up with creative ways to fight us that don't fit into our paradigm of fighting!! No fair, you should be forced to fight us on our terms so we can feel good about ourselves rather than imploding due to boredom until we just give up and you can take our District when we no-show because you've successfully trained us to not pay attention!! I Love this thread. I would rather fight my way to defeat than no-show my way to victory. We are not disputing the tactic we are disputing the no-risk factor, he very foundations of PC wre built on Risk vs. Reward so why should we allow a system that does not follow that. What bothers me the most is that your wrong their is no long drawn out meta the smaller corps just can't beat the larger corps in PC, Pubs, or Fac war so the only way to fight is to not fight if the at least had an end game you could credit them with that but their is no end game, no conquest, just an abuse of the system people are exploiting the system but not for monetary game but to destroy PC in itself.
/facepalm
Just because you say that they have no end game doesn't mean that they have no end game. It means that you want to paint them as mission grinders who simply want to waste your time and have no long term strategic goals (i.e no long drawn out meta) which will be accomplished by training you to ignore their attacks.
How do you know that they don't have a long drawn out meta? Are you really the alt of some small corp scrub who really has no real PC plans?
You're also wrong about there being no risk for the no-show attackers. What if the District is attacked and seized by some other corp? They've effectively lost their opportunity to weaponize boredom against you since you've lost the District before they've had the chance to take it from you with their real attack. Now they'd need to go through the whole process again with the second corp; again risking that they will lose the opportunity to another corp.
It is the long gamble, not my fault you're unable to see that.
I <3 introducing reddots to ragdoll physics!
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Karras Hearn
352 Industries
67
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
So many people in this thread seem to be forgetting that this is new Eden we are fighting in. This is a place where anything goes (within the bounds of game mechanics). Can you imagine the riots there would be if CCP decided to apply the same logic being presented in this thread to EVE Sov wafare? All of High Sec would burn and the summer of rage back in 2011 would seem like a minor disagreement compared to what would happen.
Forcing an opponent to chose which timer to defend has been a valid tactic since the beginning of time. And in EVE we have a better name for the tactic of denying fights: Blueballing.
Welcome to warefare in the harshest cluster of stars known to man. Welcome to New Eden. Buckle in and Harden the **** Up
Purveyor of the finest Officer weapons in the Cluster.
Chief Security Officer, 352 Industries
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hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
400
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
Karras Hearn wrote:So many people in this thread seem to be forgetting that this is new Eden we are fighting in. This is a place where anything goes (within the bounds of game mechanics). Can you imagine the riots there would be if CCP decided to apply the same logic being presented in this thread to EVE Sov wafare? All of High Sec would burn and the summer of rage back in 2011 would seem like a minor disagreement compared to what would happen.
Forcing an opponent to chose which timer to defend has been a valid tactic since the beginning of time. And in EVE we have a better name for the tactic of denying fights: Blueballing.
Welcome to warefare in the harshest cluster of stars known to man. Welcome to New Eden. Buckle in and Harden the **** Up
Yeah, but this is an Fps. Imagine playing Bf4 of something and just having no show battles back to back. No content/nothing, itd end the game due to boredom.
"Make America Great Again"
Donald Trump 2016
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Since some of you believe this is working as intended I will tell you why it is flawed since the first step to solving a problem is identifying it. The whole idea of PC is huge risk huge reward, so why is their a no risk huge reward aspect put into the game.
No showing requires:
no isk
no players
no planning
no financial reprecussions
and since the no-showing corp has no districts their is no risk of retaliation
Reward:
Potential timer stack
Wearing down your opponent
Preventing clones from being moved which prevents
reinforcing weak districts and
launching attacks
if a corp wins a battle but has insufficient clones for an immediate re-up and their district to launch the re-up is tied up w/ a no-show they must either start over letting them regen essentially voiding a battle or lose 30mil by throwing a clone pack at it.
the no-show may prevent the sale of clones at a more tactical time
I think the present Risk vs Reward sums up the issues quite well. The attacker literally has nothing at risk while the stakes for the defender are huge both in tangibles (the district) and intangibles (time).
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
hails8n wrote:Karras Hearn wrote:So many people in this thread seem to be forgetting that this is new Eden we are fighting in. This is a place where anything goes (within the bounds of game mechanics). Can you imagine the riots there would be if CCP decided to apply the same logic being presented in this thread to EVE Sov wafare? All of High Sec would burn and the summer of rage back in 2011 would seem like a minor disagreement compared to what would happen.
Forcing an opponent to chose which timer to defend has been a valid tactic since the beginning of time. And in EVE we have a better name for the tactic of denying fights: Blueballing.
Welcome to warefare in the harshest cluster of stars known to man. Welcome to New Eden. Buckle in and Harden the **** Up Yeah, but this is an Fps. Imagine playing Bf4 of something and just having no show battles back to back. No content/nothing, itd end the game due to boredom.
Not nearly the same. You can always do FW or pub matches which, while screwy at the moment, will at least guarantee you a fight.
PC is different. It is a competitive environment where unorthodox tactics may, at times, thrive and where things will not always go as you expect or how you want them to.
Aeon Amadi for CPM 2
Design A SKIN 2
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:45:00 -
[47] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Since some of you believe this is working as intended I will tell you why it is flawed since the first step to solving a problem is identifying it. The whole idea of PC is huge risk huge reward, so why is their a no risk huge reward aspect put into the game.
No showing requires:
no isk
no players
no planning
no financial reprecussions
and since the no-showing corp has no districts their is no risk of retaliation
Reward:
Potential timer stack
Wearing down your opponent
Preventing clones from being moved which prevents
reinforcing weak districts and
launching attacks
if a corp wins a battle but has insufficient clones for an immediate re-up and their district to launch the re-up is tied up w/ a no-show they must either start over letting them regen essentially voiding a battle or lose 30mil by throwing a clone pack at it.
the no-show may prevent the sale of clones at a more tactical time
I think the present Risk vs Reward sums up the issues quite well. The attacker literally has nothing at risk while the stakes for the defender are huge both in tangibles (the district) and intangibles (time).
Which is a valid argument but not a 100% valid justification for the complete removal of the ability to no show an attack. This didn't seem to be an issue when clone packs had a multi-million ISK price tag attached but now that entities can field them purely with activity it suddenly is an annoyance, or irritation to the defending party.
Which is amusing to me because I wonder what the response toward raiding. Attackers throw out CP for a "free" clone pack, hit your district with a raid, and use nothing but BPOs. Where's the risk there? While sort of a strawman argument, I think it's pretty relevant - would you feel the same way about raids? If not, why?
Aeon Amadi for CPM 2
Design A SKIN 2
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hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
400
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:46:00 -
[48] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Devadander wrote:Omg the tear collection factor in this thread is impossible to gauge!
My HAV are fueled for the next millennium.
Honestly. All I see is "why are so tuff to hold 20 districts? Stahp making us du theengs. QQ QQ NOT FAIR"
I think it is hilarious too. No, you can't come up with creative ways to fight us that don't fit into our paradigm of fighting!! No fair, you should be forced to fight us on our terms so we can feel good about ourselves rather than imploding due to boredom until we just give up and you can take our District when we no-show because you've successfully trained us to not pay attention!! I Love this thread. I would rather fight my way to defeat than no-show my way to victory. We are not disputing the tactic we are disputing the no-risk factor, he very foundations of PC wre built on Risk vs. Reward so why should we allow a system that does not follow that. What bothers me the most is that your wrong their is no long drawn out meta the smaller corps just can't beat the larger corps in PC, Pubs, or Fac war so the only way to fight is to not fight if the at least had an end game you could credit them with that but their is no end game, no conquest, just an abuse of the system people are exploiting the system but not for monetary game but to destroy PC in itself. /facepalm Just because you say that they have no end game doesn't mean that they have no end game. It means that you want to paint them as mission grinders who simply want to waste your time and have no long term strategic goals (i.e no long drawn out meta) which will be accomplished by training you to ignore their attacks. How do you know that they don't have a long drawn out meta? Are you really the alt of some small corp scrub who really has no real PC plans? You're also wrong about there being no risk for the no-show attackers. What if the District is attacked and seized by some other corp? They've effectively lost their opportunity to weaponize boredom against you since you've lost the District before they've had the chance to take it from you with their real attack. Now they'd need to go through the whole process again with the second corp; again risking that they will lose the opportunity to another corp. It is the long gamble, not my fault you're unable to see that.
If there's no determined amount of times you can no show, corps can do it forever. It can be a tactic, but corps dont really have to follow up with a real attack if they don't want to. I'm against the idea completely, because this is an fps, if theres nothing to shoot at, what's the point? I mean theres no pve in those matches.
"Make America Great Again"
Donald Trump 2016
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
Aeon, I'm not against the ability to no show. I'm against it having no cost or consequence.
And this isn't an issue of more land than can be defended. This issue is cropping up for those with low district counts and high district counts alike. The point of CP attacks was to create low barriers to entry for organizations wanting to own land for themselves.
It's intended to be used by organizations wanting to show up, fight, and break into planetary conquest. Not for throw away matches that create server cost for no good reason.
hails8n wrote:
If there's no determined amount of times you can no show, corps can do it forever. It can be a tactic, but corps dont really have to follow up with a real attack if they don't want to. I'm against the idea completely, because this is an fps, if theres nothing to shoot at, what's the point? I mean theres no pve in those matches.
This really sums it up well.
Really though it's not hard to put people into a match for even throw away attacks. Set up a single player with a platoon and have them pull people in from wherever. Jadek had numerous raids against NF and they actually have folks show up even if it isn't a full team. What I'm getting at is that a feint is fine but sending not even one person into a match after launching an attack should have consequences.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
401
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:hails8n wrote:Karras Hearn wrote:So many people in this thread seem to be forgetting that this is new Eden we are fighting in. This is a place where anything goes (within the bounds of game mechanics). Can you imagine the riots there would be if CCP decided to apply the same logic being presented in this thread to EVE Sov wafare? All of High Sec would burn and the summer of rage back in 2011 would seem like a minor disagreement compared to what would happen.
Forcing an opponent to chose which timer to defend has been a valid tactic since the beginning of time. And in EVE we have a better name for the tactic of denying fights: Blueballing.
Welcome to warefare in the harshest cluster of stars known to man. Welcome to New Eden. Buckle in and Harden the **** Up Yeah, but this is an Fps. Imagine playing Bf4 of something and just having no show battles back to back. No content/nothing, itd end the game due to boredom. Not nearly the same. You can always do FW or pub matches which, while screwy at the moment, will at least guarantee you a fight. PC is different. It is a competitive environment where unorthodox tactics may, at times, thrive and where things will not always go as you expect or how you want them to.
I understand there are modes that can guarantee you a battle. Like Kain said, Risk vs. Reward, a corp with no districts can no show attack forever with no reprucussions. They don't even have to utilize that tactic you keep bringing up, which I've never actually seen being done. If a corps going to no show attack us once, I guarantee you, 1. They probably dont have a single district, and 2. You will never see them commiting to a real attack ever.
"Make America Great Again"
Donald Trump 2016
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Alaika Arbosa
No Context
2
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:53:00 -
[51] - Quote
hails8n wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Devadander wrote:Omg the tear collection factor in this thread is impossible to gauge!
My HAV are fueled for the next millennium.
Honestly. All I see is "why are so tuff to hold 20 districts? Stahp making us du theengs. QQ QQ NOT FAIR"
I think it is hilarious too. No, you can't come up with creative ways to fight us that don't fit into our paradigm of fighting!! No fair, you should be forced to fight us on our terms so we can feel good about ourselves rather than imploding due to boredom until we just give up and you can take our District when we no-show because you've successfully trained us to not pay attention!! I Love this thread. I would rather fight my way to defeat than no-show my way to victory. We are not disputing the tactic we are disputing the no-risk factor, he very foundations of PC wre built on Risk vs. Reward so why should we allow a system that does not follow that. What bothers me the most is that your wrong their is no long drawn out meta the smaller corps just can't beat the larger corps in PC, Pubs, or Fac war so the only way to fight is to not fight if the at least had an end game you could credit them with that but their is no end game, no conquest, just an abuse of the system people are exploiting the system but not for monetary game but to destroy PC in itself. /facepalm Just because you say that they have no end game doesn't mean that they have no end game. It means that you want to paint them as mission grinders who simply want to waste your time and have no long term strategic goals (i.e no long drawn out meta) which will be accomplished by training you to ignore their attacks. How do you know that they don't have a long drawn out meta? Are you really the alt of some small corp scrub who really has no real PC plans? You're also wrong about there being no risk for the no-show attackers. What if the District is attacked and seized by some other corp? They've effectively lost their opportunity to weaponize boredom against you since you've lost the District before they've had the chance to take it from you with their real attack. Now they'd need to go through the whole process again with the second corp; again risking that they will lose the opportunity to another corp. It is the long gamble, not my fault you're unable to see that. If there's no determined amount of times you can no show, corps can do it forever. It can be a tactic, but corps dont really have to follow up with a real attack if they don't want to. I'm against the idea completely, because this is an fps, if theres nothing to shoot at, what's the point? I mean theres no pve in those matches.
This was already addressed earlier in the thread.
It was a valid tactic when clone packs had multi-million ISK price tags but now that clone packs can be acquired through activity, it is somehow a terrible idea with no place in an FPS.
lol
Now, there-- there is hypocrisy.
I <3 introducing reddots to ragdoll physics!
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
505
|
Posted - 2015.08.02 21:56:00 -
[52] - Quote
WTB more buckets, 50k each.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
Again, Alakia, no shows have always been seen as a bad thing in Planetary Conquest. I specifically pushed for the re-up mechanic to address it from the attacker's side. Now we are seeing it become an issue on the defender side, so it's time to address it.
Again, if you were willing to no show a match after throwing 30-80m ISK down the drain then that's a consequence and a sacrifice that's made by the attacker. Free CP attacks are important for getting people into PC, but again there should be consequences for that no show especially for corps "generating so much CP they don't know what to do with it" as some have stated.
Planetary Conquest has always been about fine balancing the risk vs rewards and in this instance it's out of balance.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
202
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Posted - 2015.08.02 22:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Aeon, I'm not against the ability to no show. I'm against it having no cost or consequence.
It has an opportunity cost along with the CP cost.
Kain Spero wrote:
And this isn't an issue of more land than can be defended. This issue is cropping up for those with low district counts and high district counts alike.
Where are the low district count CEOs complaining? Special forum or do they only complain to you?
Kain Spero wrote:
The point of CP attacks was to create low barriers to entry for organizations wanting to own land for themselves.
It's intended to be used by organizations wanting to show up, fight, and break into planetary conquest. Not for throw away matches that create server cost for no good reason.
Boring out a group is a perfectly good reason.
Kain Spero wrote:
Really though it's not hard to put people into a match for even throw away attacks. Set up a single player with a platoon and have them pull people in from wherever. Jadek had numerous raids against NF and they actually have folks show up even if it isn't a full team. What I'm getting at is that a feint is fine but sending not even one person into a match after launching an attack should have consequences.
Why put people in to give you something to do? If the point of the attack is weaponized boredom, putting a squad in defeats the purpose.
It is telling that the people who are against these types of tactics have all expressed a desire to remove or restrict these tactics, but not a single one of them has suggested the far simpler method of increasing CP cost.
General Butt Naked - Biomassed
The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned
Only 9 more alts to go.
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Karras Hearn
352 Industries
70
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Posted - 2015.08.02 22:17:00 -
[55] - Quote
There shouldn't be a punishment for a valid tactic. Increase the cost of launching an attack, but don't punish anyone for no showing, thats not how new eden works
Purveyor of the finest Officer weapons in the Cluster.
Chief Security Officer, 352 Industries
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DEATH THE KlD
Imperfect - Bastards
281
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Posted - 2015.08.02 22:18:00 -
[56] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:hails8n wrote:Karras Hearn wrote:So many people in this thread seem to be forgetting that this is new Eden we are fighting in. This is a place where anything goes (within the bounds of game mechanics). Can you imagine the riots there would be if CCP decided to apply the same logic being presented in this thread to EVE Sov wafare? All of High Sec would burn and the summer of rage back in 2011 would seem like a minor disagreement compared to what would happen.
Forcing an opponent to chose which timer to defend has been a valid tactic since the beginning of time. And in EVE we have a better name for the tactic of denying fights: Blueballing.
Welcome to warefare in the harshest cluster of stars known to man. Welcome to New Eden. Buckle in and Harden the **** Up Yeah, but this is an Fps. Imagine playing Bf4 of something and just having no show battles back to back. No content/nothing, itd end the game due to boredom. Not nearly the same. You can always do FW or pub matches which, while screwy at the moment, will at least guarantee you a fight. PC is different. It is a competitive environment where unorthodox tactics may, at times, thrive and where things will not always go as you expect or how you want them to.
I don't consider a 6v14 a fight...which is the current state of pubs |
Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
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Posted - 2015.08.02 22:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
Karras Hearn wrote:There shouldn't be a punishment for a valid tactic. Increase the cost of launching an attack, but don't punish anyone for no showing, thats not how new eden works
The if its a valid tactic should we go back to the days where a district holder could no show for two days and then show up for the third day?
There is a reason that this specific behavior has been addressed in the past that you seem to have trouble connecting with or realizing.
Hell, one of the major reason that PC was set up in the first place was because Corp battles were turning into dodge 514 where someone would see an opponent they feel that couldn't complete with and would just no show that match.
The design intent has been and will always be to get player to fight against each other as this is an FPS and to balance out instances where fighting doesn't actually occur (elimination of district locking and passive ISK) has been balanced out where possible. That's the other side of the coin here as well with corporations selling off corps full of CP. We could easily see this all turn into mass district locking to cover districts from attack while landholders grow clones and then sell after the no shows.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Karras Hearn
352 Industries
72
|
Posted - 2015.08.02 22:42:00 -
[58] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Karras Hearn wrote:There shouldn't be a punishment for a valid tactic. Increase the cost of launching an attack, but don't punish anyone for no showing, thats not how new eden works Then if its a valid tactic should we go back to the days where a district holder could no show for two days and then show up for the third day? There is a reason that this specific behavior has been addressed in the past that you seem to have trouble connecting with or realizing. Hell, one of the major reason that PC was set up in the first place was because Corp battles were turning into dodge 514 where someone would see an opponent they feel that couldn't complete with and would just no show that match. The design intent has been and will always be to get player to fight against each other as this is an FPS and to balance out instances where fighting doesn't actually occur (elimination of district locking and passive ISK) has been balanced out where possible. That's the other side of the coin here as well with corporations selling off corps full of CP. We could easily see this all turn into mass district locking to cover districts from attack while landholders grow clones and then sell after the no shows.
I know all about the past and what used to happen. If you hold a district, you have to fight to keep it, the old way wasn't accurately reflecting that so it got changed.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences for no-showing, I'm saying that those consequences should be in the form of the cost of attacking not by punishing them after the fact. Because punishing after the fact won't stop it from happening and those who are determined to do it will find ways around it. Punishing after the fact will also unfairly punish those who are being paid to no show by rivals of the defending corp, which is also a valid tactic (I don't know if it is actually happening, but it could and is a valid tactic)
You yourself have been around New Eden long enough to know how resourceful the playerbase is. Where there is a will to do something, we will find a way to do it within the mechanics of the game. Teamkilling is technically not possible in public contract matches, but if you really want to do it all you have to do is load up a vehicle with friendles and drive it into a wall or over the redline and its a valid tactic.
You may not like it, but thats the way things are. Yes the cost should be increased but there is no point in punishing people for using valid tactics because it will be a never ending game of cat and mouse - as steps are put in place to stop/prevent something, someone will still find a way to do it without getting banned then the cycle repeats and that then gets stomped and a new method is found.
So I say again, Harden the **** Up
Purveyor of the finest Officer weapons in the Cluster.
Chief Security Officer, 352 Industries
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
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Posted - 2015.08.02 23:08:00 -
[59] - Quote
Karras Hearn wrote:
I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences for no-showing, I'm saying that those consequences should be in the form of the cost of attacking not by punishing them after the fact. Because punishing after the fact won't stop it from happening and those who are determined to do it will find ways around it. Punishing after the fact will also unfairly punish those who are being paid to no show by rivals of the defending corp, which is also a valid tactic (I don't know if it is actually happening, but it could and is a valid tactic)
I'm glad we agree here.
The problem with an increased cost for CP attacks is that it could negatively impact the barrier to entry for corps trying to get into PC. Sure an ISK cost could be added to attacks even when you don't hold land, but I think that unfairly hits players trying to enter into PC. The specific act of no showing should be targeted to prevent impacting the barrier to entry. Thus a CP cost for no showing etc.
At the bare minimum whether a defender or attack no shows there needs be a mechanic in place where the match auto completes giving victory to the team that bothered to put bodies in the match. Again, it's terribly easy to put people into a match (heck you can even start a pub squad) and avoid no show penalties while keeping the ability to feint and various other forms of emergent game play.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 00:10:00 -
[60] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Karras Hearn wrote:
I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences for no-showing, I'm saying that those consequences should be in the form of the cost of attacking not by punishing them after the fact. Because punishing after the fact won't stop it from happening and those who are determined to do it will find ways around it. Punishing after the fact will also unfairly punish those who are being paid to no show by rivals of the defending corp, which is also a valid tactic (I don't know if it is actually happening, but it could and is a valid tactic)
I'm glad we agree here. The problem with an increased cost for CP attacks is that it could negatively impact the barrier to entry for corps trying to get into PC. Sure an ISK cost could be added to attacks even when you don't hold land, but I think that unfairly hits players trying to enter into PC. The specific act of no showing should be targeted to prevent impacting the barrier to entry. Thus a CP cost for no showing etc. At the bare minimum whether a defender or attack no shows there needs be a mechanic in place where the match auto completes giving victory to the team that bothered to put bodies in the match. Again, it's terribly easy to put people into a match (heck you can even start a pub squad) and avoid no show penalties while keeping the ability to feint and various other forms of emergent game play.
Maybe. A begrudging maybe.
Depends on what sort of numbers you're thinking of.
Aeon Amadi for CPM 2
Design A SKIN 2
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RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe.
RUST415
2
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Posted - 2015.08.03 00:11:00 -
[61] - Quote
The current system is great. It allows for the smaller corps to coordinate real and false attacks to scatter the larger corps into a position of not being able to defend their holdings. The bigger corps should fear the masses of smaller pirate corps. That is the way it should be.
In the last month I've seen more varied fights in PC than I ever have. More new names on the ground, more corps in the fray. It's no longer the monotony of one corp's A-team versus another corp's A-team over and over. The same tactics, the same fights, all while the greedy pigs of power sit back on their haunches and collect piles of ISK on the shoulders of the best 16 players in their corp.
Feels good.
"xMLx" Molon public channel. Tuesday Night Raiding Party, because drinking during the week is healthy.
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hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
403
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Posted - 2015.08.03 00:31:00 -
[62] - Quote
RemingtonBeaver wrote:The current system is great. It allows for the smaller corps to coordinate real and false attacks to scatter the larger corps into a position of not being able to defend their holdings. The bigger corps should fear the masses of smaller pirate corps. That is the way it should be. In the last month I've seen more varied fights in PC than I ever have. More new names on the ground, more corps in the fray. It's no longer the monotony of one corp's A-team versus another corp's A-team over and over. The same tactics, the same fights, all while the greedy pigs of power sit back on their haunches and collect piles of ISK on the shoulders of the best 16 players in their corp. Feels good.
Yeah, but do you understand? In the no show system a corp never has to attack , they can flood PC with fake matches with no intention of ever playing PC. If you want to make no showing a tactic, which I think is moronic, put a limit on the number of times a corp can no show before being forced to follow through with a real match.
"Make America Great Again"
Donald Trump 2016
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DEATH THE KlD
Imperfect - Bastards
282
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Posted - 2015.08.03 00:37:00 -
[63] - Quote
hails8n wrote:RemingtonBeaver wrote:The current system is great. It allows for the smaller corps to coordinate real and false attacks to scatter the larger corps into a position of not being able to defend their holdings. The bigger corps should fear the masses of smaller pirate corps. That is the way it should be. In the last month I've seen more varied fights in PC than I ever have. More new names on the ground, more corps in the fray. It's no longer the monotony of one corp's A-team versus another corp's A-team over and over. The same tactics, the same fights, all while the greedy pigs of power sit back on their haunches and collect piles of ISK on the shoulders of the best 16 players in their corp. Feels good. Yeah, but do you understand? In the no show system a corp never has to attack , they can flood PC with fake matches with no intention of ever playing PC. If you want to make no showing a tactic, which I think is moronic, put a limit on the number of times a corp can no show before being forced to follow through with a real match.
They understand they're just no good anyways..they do it because they know they have no chance at winning so they hide and don't even try..same as they do in pubs..back out when there's actual competition |
Karras Hearn
352 Industries
73
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Posted - 2015.08.03 00:50:00 -
[64] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Karras Hearn wrote:
I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences for no-showing, I'm saying that those consequences should be in the form of the cost of attacking not by punishing them after the fact. Because punishing after the fact won't stop it from happening and those who are determined to do it will find ways around it. Punishing after the fact will also unfairly punish those who are being paid to no show by rivals of the defending corp, which is also a valid tactic (I don't know if it is actually happening, but it could and is a valid tactic)
I'm glad we agree here. The problem with an increased cost for CP attacks is that it could negatively impact the barrier to entry for corps trying to get into PC. Sure an ISK cost could be added to attacks even when you don't hold land, but I think that unfairly hits players trying to enter into PC. The specific act of no showing should be targeted to prevent impacting the barrier to entry. Thus a CP cost for no showing etc. At the bare minimum whether a defender or attack no shows there needs be a mechanic in place where the match auto completes giving victory to the team that bothered to put bodies in the match. Again, it's terribly easy to put people into a match (heck you can even start a pub squad) and avoid no show penalties while keeping the ability to feint and various other forms of emergent game play.
Auto completing the match again is taking away form the tactic, bore them to death. If the Match auto completes they then get to go and play FW or pub matches or join another attack/defense. If the auto complete also prevented those who showed from joining another match for an hour, then i might be able to agree with it, but otherwise its just providing the defender with rewards just for showing up and doing nothing. If they want the rewards that go with holding districts then they should have to commit to that battle for the duration, whether their opponent shows up or not otherwise it just lowers their risk, by removing the risk that they commit to a battle only to find it was a bait and switch or an attempt at breaking morale.
I cannot foresee any mechanic that provides sufficient stick without harming valid tactics in the process. I also don't think the rewards for showing up when your opponent doesn't are sufficient, would there be as much complaining about no shows if the team that did show was getting better rewards? I don't think I've seen anyone complain about the defenders no showing because in that case the attackers have just won the district and the rewards are better for the attacker than if the defender shows and the attacker doesn't.
Purveyor of the finest Officer weapons in the Cluster.
Chief Security Officer, 352 Industries
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
203
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Posted - 2015.08.03 01:17:00 -
[65] - Quote
hails8n wrote:
If you want to make no showing a tactic, which I think is moronic,
We don't want to make it a tactic, it is a tactic. And a valid one.
You want to plant your flag in molden heath, people have the option to bore you because you want to hold turf.
Don't want to be bored by harassment, don't hold turf. No one made you take a district. You wanted it, and part of having it is that people who want to can tie you up and keep you out of pubs/fw because you feel the need to hyper organize and always be ready.
General Butt Naked - Biomassed
The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned
Only 9 more alts to go.
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
205
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Posted - 2015.08.03 01:25:00 -
[66] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:
At the bare minimum whether a defender or attack no shows there needs be a mechanic in place where the match auto completes giving victory to the team that bothered to put bodies in the match. Again, it's terribly easy to put people into a match (heck you can even start a pub squad) and avoid no show penalties while keeping the ability to feint and various other forms of emergent game play.
Doing this would remove weaponized boredom.
So just no.
Raise the price of attacks, sure. Add back in an isk component, I don't see why not. It doesn't have to be extreme, but there is room to play with the costs.
You don't like the strain of holding turf, don't hold it. You can't properly organize your group into chat channels to make it more manageable to deal with your overlapping matches, hold less districts.
But taking away other peoples strategic options because you can't tolerate not being able to q sync FW all night because you have to defend no shows is not a solution. Its just catering to people who don't need a handout from the devs.
General Butt Naked - Biomassed
The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned
Only 9 more alts to go.
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Badgerr Rager
Fatal Absolution
923
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 01:30:00 -
[67] - Quote
I like defending no shows you fgts.... Means I die less
One day, I would like to be good at this game
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
205
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Posted - 2015.08.03 01:39:00 -
[68] - Quote
Badgerr Rager wrote:I like defending no shows you fgts.... Means I die less
Stat padding has always been an FA staple.
General Butt Naked - Biomassed
The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned
Only 9 more alts to go.
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Badgerr Rager
Fatal Absolution
923
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Posted - 2015.08.03 01:41:00 -
[69] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:Badgerr Rager wrote:I like defending no shows you fgts.... Means I die less Stat padding has always been an FA staple.
I die like five times in the no shows you fscking axsholes
One day, I would like to be good at this game
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
205
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Posted - 2015.08.03 01:43:00 -
[70] - Quote
Badgerr Rager wrote:General Mosquito wrote:Badgerr Rager wrote:I like defending no shows you fgts.... Means I die less Stat padding has always been an FA staple. I die like five times in the no shows you fscking axsholes
You shoot at my tank, you get ran over.
I told you the first three times, not my fault my swag gets your trigger finger popping.
General Butt Naked - Biomassed
The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned
Only 9 more alts to go.
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Badgerr Rager
Fatal Absolution
923
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Posted - 2015.08.03 01:45:00 -
[71] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:Badgerr Rager wrote:General Mosquito wrote:Badgerr Rager wrote:I like defending no shows you fgts.... Means I die less Stat padding has always been an FA staple. I die like five times in the no shows you fscking axsholes You shoot at my tank, you get ran over. I told you the first three times, not my fault my swag gets your trigger finger popping.
I get a little excited.
One day, I would like to be good at this game
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
508
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 02:10:00 -
[72] - Quote
Badgerr Rager wrote:General Mosquito wrote:Badgerr Rager wrote:General Mosquito wrote:Badgerr Rager wrote:I like defending no shows you fgts.... Means I die less Stat padding has always been an FA staple. I die like five times in the no shows you fscking axsholes You shoot at my tank, you get ran over. I told you the first three times, not my fault my swag gets your trigger finger popping. I get a little excited.
If I ever attack FA, it will be real the first time. o7
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Badgerr Rager
Fatal Absolution
926
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Posted - 2015.08.03 02:11:00 -
[73] - Quote
Devadander wrote:
If I ever attack FA, it will be real the first time. o7
don't lie to me.
One day, I would like to be good at this game
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
508
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 02:15:00 -
[74] - Quote
Badgerr Rager wrote:Devadander wrote:
If I ever attack FA, it will be real the first time. o7
don't lie to me.
One of us always tells the truth, and one of us always lies.
I tell the truth, he always lies.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
12
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Posted - 2015.08.03 03:19:00 -
[75] - Quote
There are problems with our End Game. Punishing "no shows" will not solve those problems. If you're looking for conflict in earnest, look for a system wherein the interests of participants are opposed rather than aligned. Give us legitimate Raid Mechanics and see the wheels of war turn:
* Daily raid windows for small raids (8v8)
* Weekly raid windows for large raids (16v16)
* 30-45 minutes warnings
* Clones stolen and sold on raider victory
Give Lesser Corps the tools they need to potentially poke the bear and get away with it. No Kumbaya Corp will ever whine about a no-show again.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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VAHZZ
Vader's-Fist
5
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Posted - 2015.08.03 03:32:00 -
[76] - Quote
Fix ******* PCa disappearing! 
Director of Vader's Fist
"Never not lurk" - CCP Logibro
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Ghost Kaisar
Negative-Feedback
12
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Posted - 2015.08.03 03:51:00 -
[77] - Quote
Badgerr Rager wrote:General Mosquito wrote:Badgerr Rager wrote:I like defending no shows you fgts.... Means I die less Stat padding has always been an FA staple. I die like five times in the no shows you fscking axsholes
FA
So bloodthristy, we shoot each other if nobody shows up.
I wish I was kidding.
Currently listening to: Tsukihime OST
Un-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
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Posted - 2015.08.03 04:56:00 -
[78] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Karras Hearn wrote:
I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences for no-showing, I'm saying that those consequences should be in the form of the cost of attacking not by punishing them after the fact. Because punishing after the fact won't stop it from happening and those who are determined to do it will find ways around it. Punishing after the fact will also unfairly punish those who are being paid to no show by rivals of the defending corp, which is also a valid tactic (I don't know if it is actually happening, but it could and is a valid tactic)
I'm glad we agree here. The problem with an increased cost for CP attacks is that it could negatively impact the barrier to entry for corps trying to get into PC. Sure an ISK cost could be added to attacks even when you don't hold land, but I think that unfairly hits players trying to enter into PC. The specific act of no showing should be targeted to prevent impacting the barrier to entry. Thus a CP cost for no showing etc. At the bare minimum whether a defender or attack no shows there needs be a mechanic in place where the match auto completes giving victory to the team that bothered to put bodies in the match. Again, it's terribly easy to put people into a match (heck you can even start a pub squad) and avoid no show penalties while keeping the ability to feint and various other forms of emergent game play. Maybe. A begrudging maybe. Depends on what sort of numbers you're thinking of.
Really starting with finishing off the battle if no one shows up would be a good start.
The CP penalty I think would need to at least 7500 CP (equivalent of moving/selling 150 clones), but I'm not sure if that would be of enough consequence to matter. Again, we'd be trying to recreate the pause given to folks that were throwing out clone packs at 30 to 80 million ISK a pop. A freeze on the CP wallet has also been suggested as well, but I'm not sure how much I like that idea. Something like the CP wallet being locked out for X days (no CP in or out).
As someone said earlier though if people want to engage in something more meaningful than "weaponized boredom" we need raiding mechanics that can allow fights to occur in PC in less that 24 hours potentially with 8v8, 12v12, 16v16 set ups.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
509
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 06:04:00 -
[79] - Quote
DDB and OP just learned that we aren't joking.
6 man raid paid out 887 with an avg 40k loss.
G'luck in your struggles chummer.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
509
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 06:43:00 -
[80] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:.....boo hoo
CCP made this change to destroy the power circle.
Now that the power circle no likey, you think they are gonna change it again???
HARDEN THE FECK UP!
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
405
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Posted - 2015.08.03 07:15:00 -
[81] - Quote
Devadander wrote:DDB and OP just learned that we aren't joking.
6 man raid paid out 887 with an avg 40k loss.
G'luck in your struggles chummer.
Edit: so they threw 5.3 mil, plus the cost of ringers, at a six man raid, and we ran crap suits. (Except me, but spare no expense)
In my book that is epic.
Oh, and we got together 5 mins before match.
Thats fine, as long as you play. I remember going 22/1 in a PC like that. Me in my proto melee commando and the other team in caldari medium and whatever. It was funny because they thought they were trolling. lul
"Make America Great Again"
Donald Trump 2016
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
510
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 09:30:00 -
[82] - Quote
hails8n wrote:Devadander wrote:DDB and OP just learned that we aren't joking.
6 man raid paid out 887 with an avg 40k loss.
G'luck in your struggles chummer.
Edit: so they threw 5.3 mil, plus the cost of ringers, at a six man raid, and we ran crap suits. (Except me, but spare no expense)
In my book that is epic.
Oh, and we got together 5 mins before match. Thats fine, as long as you play. I remember going 22/1 in a PC like that. Me in my proto melee commando and the other team in caldari medium and whatever. It was funny because they thought they were trolling. lul
But the next one we may not be there..... Or will we?
OoooOOooOooooOoo who knows?
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 10:34:00 -
[83] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Kain Spero wrote:.....boo hoo CCP made this change to destroy the power circle. Now that the power circle no likey, you think they are gonna change it again??? HARDEN THE FECK UP!
I like some of the points in this thread, and Dev is almost correct in how things have changed,
but the effect is felt on both sides, power circles will feel it less than the smaller corps as I have seen since starting PC
the corps who hold land don't care about it very much, as they have the power in mercs and ISK to flip more
As soon as a raid looks more hassle than it's worth, corps will either no-show, let you take it and attack you
or just shrug and go attack someone else instead... which will put the boot up another corps ass...
Small corps however, can be raided past the point of wanting to PC and do nothing about it
For that reason, something should be in place to add some reward to having time watsed for all Corps..
What that is?? I have no idea, in a playerbase full of those wanting to exploit it so CCP can fix it,
It's kind of hard to add any reward system that benefits nothing happening as it will be farmed
Trainwreck forum posting prof.5
Sorry I am too busy to come to the phone right now, I am actually playing the game.
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 15:03:00 -
[84] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Karras Hearn wrote:
I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences for no-showing, I'm saying that those consequences should be in the form of the cost of attacking not by punishing them after the fact. Because punishing after the fact won't stop it from happening and those who are determined to do it will find ways around it. Punishing after the fact will also unfairly punish those who are being paid to no show by rivals of the defending corp, which is also a valid tactic (I don't know if it is actually happening, but it could and is a valid tactic)
I'm glad we agree here. The problem with an increased cost for CP attacks is that it could negatively impact the barrier to entry for corps trying to get into PC. Sure an ISK cost could be added to attacks even when you don't hold land, but I think that unfairly hits players trying to enter into PC. The specific act of no showing should be targeted to prevent impacting the barrier to entry. Thus a CP cost for no showing etc. At the bare minimum whether a defender or attack no shows there needs be a mechanic in place where the match auto completes giving victory to the team that bothered to put bodies in the match. Again, it's terribly easy to put people into a match (heck you can even start a pub squad) and avoid no show penalties while keeping the ability to feint and various other forms of emergent game play. Maybe. A begrudging maybe. Depends on what sort of numbers you're thinking of. Really starting with finishing off the battle if no one shows up would be a good start. The CP penalty I think would need to at least 7500 CP (equivalent of moving/selling 150 clones), but I'm not sure if that would be of enough consequence to matter. Again, we'd be trying to recreate the pause given to folks that were throwing out clone packs at 30 to 80 million ISK a pop. A freeze on the CP wallet has also been suggested as well, but I'm not sure how much I like that idea. Something like the CP wallet being locked out for X days (no CP in or out). As someone said earlier though if people want to engage in something more meaningful than "weaponized boredom" we need raiding mechanics that can allow fights to occur in PC in less that 24 hours potentially with 8v8, 12v12, 16v16 set ups.
Yeah, you'll never get me on board with CP Wallet freezing. Sorry.
A CP penalty is one thing - I'm cool with making it more expensive to weaponize boredom and 7,500 CP is fine. But punishing players for blue-balling isn't in the spirit of New Eden and guaranteeing fights certainly isn't either. And ending the match early is in the same vein as something akin to a damage multiplier when you have all of the null cannons hacked, to be frank. That's something I've wanted to do for a long time because it would make redline matches go by faster and it would allow the stomped team an opportunity to make a comeback if they can turn it around and redline the other team.
IMO, probably a hell of a lot more dev intensive but I don't want a repeat of the "simple solutions" like when we nyxxed PC ISK generation and had to wait months for something worth a damn to replace it. That "solution" didn't do anything but make it impossible for smaller entities in PC to break in against the monsters who had stocked up on ISK prior. There was no reason to even get into PC otherwise because the entire scope of PC was artificially driven conflicts as it was the only way to make ISK.
If you want to do this, do it right and have something to replace it. Don't cut the cord and have players be on the backburner for months on end.
Aeon Amadi for CPM 2
Design A SKIN 2
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
510
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 16:09:00 -
[85] - Quote
OK so here's the deal. I did some homework and discovered that alot of the no shows are people using cp simply because they are full....
Out of the small corp ceo's I talked to, a few didn't even know there was a battle in corp contracts...
But what did you expect?
None of these guys have been in the position to even think about pc before. As word spreads and more raids go down, you will see a balancing as more and more attacks become quite real. And like it or not, no show will always be there.
What happens when a cp corp actually takes a dist?.... You fecks will just dogpile on them until its yours again, so please quit bitching. No extra fees, no discussions, just deal with it. That's what us small timers have had to do for years now. Nice shoe.
Last night I was gonna no show just to rattle em, but this thread awakened an old beast. DDB fielded two members and the rest were ringers. I had my five good friends. I called a cruship. They called 3 python and 2 incubi. Proto/officer. We were bpo/adv/pro. Full on stomp mode for six guys, so much lol. (Some OP members were running bpo so o7 to them)
I knew we were screwed when all i could scrape up was six. If I was any less vocal my troops would have scattered. Me being me, all I could do was smile-bite my cig and keep holding the charge lever on ole painless. Point being, a corp with no pc experience would crap themselves facing all that in the initial rush.
You guys make it very hard to break into pc. That's a good thing. But at the same time, don't hate on people that aren't quite ready for the challenge. From our angle its pointless. If someone shows, give em respect. If they no show, think about what they would have to fight if they did.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
510
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 16:17:00 -
[86] - Quote
Also.... If a corp no shows, you win. And since you guys are all so awesome, if they showed you would still win right?
Soooo take the time to get to know each other and enjoy that kdr.
Same time wasted either way.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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DDx77
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
340
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 17:54:00 -
[87] - Quote
I agree with the OP
Although I do think there is a valid tactic somewhere in a no show
It mostly feels like a waste of everyone's time and is very discouraging because of the time involved for coordination etc.
A minimum requirement of a squad of 4 in a PC or the battle is automatically lost might help
( at least someone in the other corp will have to join and wait out the match with you if they want to "no show")
Also/or what if the no show corp was able to sell the contract and this pops up in the other contracts menu? Making the corp responsible for all payouts at end of match.
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
512
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 20:53:00 -
[88] - Quote
I have two attacks for sale ATM, 40 million each.
How's that for sandbox?
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 22:53:00 -
[89] - Quote
Devadander wrote:I have two attacks for sale ATM, 40 million each.
How's that for sandbox?
I'll give you 10 mil just to know who would be stupid enough to pay that.
And congrats on taking over Contraban Joe's long held "Biggest D-bag in Dust" title. |
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
513
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 22:56:00 -
[90] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Devadander wrote:I have two attacks for sale ATM, 40 million each.
How's that for sandbox? I'll give you 10 mil just to know who would be stupid enough to pay that. And congrats on taking over Contraban Joe's long held "Biggest D-bag in Dust" title.
Nobody can take that from him.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
514
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 23:09:00 -
[91] - Quote
Devadander wrote:I have two attacks for sale ATM, *10 million each. How's that for sandbox? 
Been a while since I saw the cost.... Corrected
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 23:15:00 -
[92] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Devadander wrote:I have two attacks for sale ATM, 40 million each.
How's that for sandbox? I'll give you 10 mil just to know who would be stupid enough to pay that. And congrats on taking over Contraban Joe's long held "Biggest D-bag in Dust" title. Nobody can take that from him.
CBJ isn't on the forums trying to convince people that no showing battles is good. He's launching plenty of no shows, but at least he's self respecting enough to not brag about it.
I think the answer to the no shows should be no showing. If you take the district, you can't launch anymore free attacks.
One thing is for certain, the people that do this constantly will never be allowed to hold land, ever. |
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
514
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 23:21:00 -
[93] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Devadander wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Devadander wrote:I have two attacks for sale ATM, 40 million each.
How's that for sandbox? I'll give you 10 mil just to know who would be stupid enough to pay that. And congrats on taking over Contraban Joe's long held "Biggest D-bag in Dust" title. We fought our first, and with the sweet pay for nothing we will most likely never waste one. Nobody can take that from him. CBJ isn't on the forums trying to convince people that no showing battles is good. He's launching plenty of no shows, but at least he's self respecting enough to not brag about it. I think the answer to the no shows should be no showing. If you take the district, you can't launch anymore free attacks. One thing is for certain, the people that do this constantly will never be allowed to hold land, ever.
We fought our first, and with the sweet payout for nothing, we most likely will never waste one.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 23:47:00 -
[94] - Quote
Then quit talking like no showing over and over again is good for anything. People would have given their right nut for these mechanics two years ago.
But this ****** playerbase just launches no show attacks.
Pubs - Garbage, nobody fights
FW- Garbage, too many AFKers
PC- Garbage, too many no shows
I just wish people liked to shoot guns in this FPS. |
hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
406
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 23:47:00 -
[95] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Devadander wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Devadander wrote:I have two attacks for sale ATM, 40 million each.
How's that for sandbox? I'll give you 10 mil just to know who would be stupid enough to pay that. And congrats on taking over Contraban Joe's long held "Biggest D-bag in Dust" title. Nobody can take that from him. CBJ isn't on the forums trying to convince people that no showing battles is good. He's launching plenty of no shows, but at least he's self respecting enough to not brag about it. I think the answer to the no shows should be no showing. If you take the district, you can't launch anymore free attacks. One thing is for certain, the people that do this constantly will never be allowed to hold land, ever.
At this rate the planets will have to align for me to get a real PC match.
If Ccp ever gave the no show ability to defenders with no repercussions like attackers have, PC would be a wasteland.
"Make America Great Again"
Donald Trump 2016
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
514
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 00:21:00 -
[96] - Quote
I'll step OOC and be helpful.
The small timers have no idea what to do with cp. I have a plan to introduce them slowly to raiding, others like it and we are trying to get some steam to it.
Please be patient.
Weaponized boredom should be a thing. Should it be a thing like it is now? No.
Instead of trying to get it changed, what you really need/want are people to fight. Which is where alot of no shows come from.
People don't know what to do, especially against top corps.
People don't understand raiding, and how it can be profitable.
With all the cp being earned there's a lot of potential.
Willing to bet some of these no shows come from people with grudges. That can't be helped. All it takes is a couple channels and pc could get fairly exciting again.
I will do my part in my fave channels and local, but that won't change the universe too much.
Back to being a surly stubborn space mercenary.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 01:16:00 -
[97] - Quote
Devadander wrote:I'll step OOC and be helpful. The small timers have no idea what to do with cp. I have a plan to introduce them slowly to raiding, others like it and we are trying to get some steam to it. Please be patient. Weaponized boredom should be a thing. Should it be a thing like it is now? No. Instead of trying to get it changed, what you really need/want are people to fight. Which is where alot of no shows come from. People don't know what to do, especially against top corps. People don't understand raiding, and how it can be profitable. With all the cp being earned there's a lot of potential. Willing to bet some of these no shows come from people with grudges. That can't be helped. All it takes is a couple channels and pc could get fairly exciting again. I will do my part in my fave channels and local, but that won't change the universe too much. Back to being a surly stubborn space mercenary.
How about field the attacks?
Contact some corps that you know have good FCs and ask them to bring a squad and help setup the team. It'll cost you, but it would give you some solid things to build on. If you show you are serious about PC you will find plenty of people to help out.
The tone of this quoted post is much different from your early posts on the subject.
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Alaika Arbosa
No Context
2
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 01:26:00 -
[98] - Quote
Don't stop poking the impatient gunmonkeys, their reaction is too glorious.
It is hilarious and simply proof that launching no-shows is the pinnacle of psyops perfection.
The mere threat of them on the forums works them into a frothy caniption.
This is quite possibly the most fun the forums have been in a while.
I <3 introducing reddots to ragdoll physics!
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
514
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 01:30:00 -
[99] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Devadander wrote:I'll step OOC and be helpful. The small timers have no idea what to do with cp. I have a plan to introduce them slowly to raiding, others like it and we are trying to get some steam to it. Please be patient. Weaponized boredom should be a thing. Should it be a thing like it is now? No. Instead of trying to get it changed, what you really need/want are people to fight. Which is where alot of no shows come from. People don't know what to do, especially against top corps. People don't understand raiding, and how it can be profitable. With all the cp being earned there's a lot of potential. Willing to bet some of these no shows come from people with grudges. That can't be helped. All it takes is a couple channels and pc could get fairly exciting again. I will do my part in my fave channels and local, but that won't change the universe too much. Back to being a surly stubborn space mercenary. How about field the attacks? Contact some corps that you know have good FCs and ask them to bring a squad and help setup the team. It'll cost you, but it would give you some solid things to build on. If you show you are serious about PC you will find plenty of people to help out. The tone of this quoted post is much different from your early posts on the subject.
I honestly don't want to own a district. I was thinking more of the small corps just need to get together in channels and field teams with their cp.
I like raiding. Easy, quick, pays good if you play right. Hooked after last night.
Stop making me be constructive
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 01:42:00 -
[100] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Devadander wrote:I'll step OOC and be helpful. The small timers have no idea what to do with cp. I have a plan to introduce them slowly to raiding, others like it and we are trying to get some steam to it. Please be patient. Weaponized boredom should be a thing. Should it be a thing like it is now? No. Instead of trying to get it changed, what you really need/want are people to fight. Which is where alot of no shows come from. People don't know what to do, especially against top corps. People don't understand raiding, and how it can be profitable. With all the cp being earned there's a lot of potential. Willing to bet some of these no shows come from people with grudges. That can't be helped. All it takes is a couple channels and pc could get fairly exciting again. I will do my part in my fave channels and local, but that won't change the universe too much. Back to being a surly stubborn space mercenary. How about field the attacks? Contact some corps that you know have good FCs and ask them to bring a squad and help setup the team. It'll cost you, but it would give you some solid things to build on. If you show you are serious about PC you will find plenty of people to help out. The tone of this quoted post is much different from your early posts on the subject. I honestly don't want to own a district. I was thinking more of the small corps just need to get together in channels and field teams with their cp. I like raiding. Easy, quick, pays good if you play right. Hooked after last night. Stop making me be constructive
I don't get this.
If you earn the first district, I don't care who you are, that will matter. Even if it doesn't matter to you, it will matter to someone who helped you earn it. Maybe those people are the ones that will forge the new breed of competitive players in Dust.
You are a ****** CEO if you have a corp with a tax rate and fail to provide your members with the flood of content recently made available in PC 2.0. With FW Apex suits trade able corps should be encouraging FW syncs, it gets your players thinking like a team and it generates a steady income for your players. The Apex suits themselves give CEOs a built in skill plan for their new players. With the CP earned, you have the chance to earn your players DK by getting them PC battles.
It sucks that people aren't taking advantage of it. I hate being right on this one. Incentives for winning anything have been so pathetic for so long that there's hardly any competition left. |
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
514
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 01:44:00 -
[101] - Quote
No tax.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 01:59:00 -
[102] - Quote
Good for you, but I think you should adopt a small one to help out your dedicated vehicle pilots in PC battles if you continue to pursue PC. Not that you are asking, just my opinion. |
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
514
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 02:26:00 -
[103] - Quote
I am the operator. We're a group of about 8 buds in a casual corp. Me and my directors are loaded from assets/long time play. We play pubs in mostly bpo to keep it real and keep isk positive.
This is most of the corps that don't pc.
We really don't want to be tied to defending a district constantly. Raiding is fun and lucrative. (More than pubs/fw anyway) I don't want to lead any revolutions honestly.
I see some 1v16 matches in my future. Can't wait.
And still think no-show is a valid tactic. Just not so much for me.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
|
Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 05:58:00 -
[104] - Quote
Devadander wrote:I am the operator. We're a group of about 8 buds in a casual corp. Me and my directors are loaded from assets/long time play. We play pubs in mostly bpo to keep it real and keep isk positive.
This is most of the corps that don't pc.
We really don't want to be tied to defending a district constantly. Raiding is fun and lucrative. (More than pubs/fw anyway) I don't want to lead any revolutions honestly.
I see some 1v16 matches in my future. Can't wait.
And still think no-show is a valid tactic. Just not so much for me.
Understandable, but it seems you guys are doing more with 8 than some with hundreds. If you want to thrash somebody I can point you in the right direction for a team. Either way, have fun. |
Alaika Arbosa
No Context
2
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 11:19:00 -
[105] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Devadander wrote:I am the operator. We're a group of about 8 buds in a casual corp. Me and my directors are loaded from assets/long time play. We play pubs in mostly bpo to keep it real and keep isk positive.
This is most of the corps that don't pc.
We really don't want to be tied to defending a district constantly. Raiding is fun and lucrative. (More than pubs/fw anyway) I don't want to lead any revolutions honestly.
I see some 1v16 matches in my future. Can't wait.
And still think no-show is a valid tactic. Just not so much for me. Understandable, but it seems you guys are doing more with 8 than some with hundreds. If you want to thrash somebody I can point you in the right direction for a team. Either way, have fun.
Is that what this is about?
You guys are hoping for fresh blood in the PC game since you're all too sick of playing together/against one another so you need the fresh blood so you can extort payment for ringing out of the new guys?
I still find it amusing how much people complain about lag and [FILL_IN_THE_BLANK] ARE OP NERF! NERF!! and then try to say that this game is meant to be competitive.
Last night there was a thread about BlOps2 and how it (or any other COD) never lags but Dust lags terrible.
This game is a game, it is meant to be fun. It is no where near competitive now and nor will it ever be until we're playing it on LANs or have literally instant telecomms.
I just think it is hilarious how the chest beaters get over this game when there are other things that can (and should) be used for chest beating purposes rather than this game we all play.
I <3 introducing reddots to ragdoll physics!
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bear90211
238
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 14:02:00 -
[106] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:
This is an FPS game built around instances of matches. If a defender no shows they loose their district. If an attacker no shows? No consequence really at all except for wasted CP.
Which is a consequence, because those CP could have been spent attacking someone they think they can beat in a straight up fight. They made a choice to send an attack, and then no show. You have choices as well.
^
This isn't a consequence, it just uses 25K cp from a farm corp. they know exactly what they're doing, and they should be punished for it.
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
516
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 18:22:00 -
[107] - Quote
Sad truth is we all know about pc macros, throttling, web tethers, equipment spam, suit changing constantly, explosion spam, general nastiness.
The ability to pay for ringers, bribes, eve support, unlimited ads/HAV, etc.
All time zones covered.
Even with an A game, nobody can compete...
I'll bet alot of these no shows are from farm corps, probably people you know and don't very much care for. Some would say it was asked for.
After years of blue donut style control, what do you expect?
Already gathering to discuss changes to a system put in place to wear you down...
I'll be done with this game.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
406
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 18:28:00 -
[108] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Sad truth is we all know about pc macros, throttling, web tethers, equipment spam, suit changing constantly, explosion spam, general nastiness.
The ability to pay for ringers, bribes, eve support, unlimited ads/HAV, etc.
All time zones covered.
Even with an A game, nobody can compete...
I'll bet alot of these no shows are from farm corps, probably people you know and don't very much care for. Some would say it was asked for.
After years of blue donut style control, what do you expect?
Already gathering to discuss changes to a system put in place to wear you down...
I'll be done with this game.
You're gonna quit playing because you cant no show, What?! I mean you don't really get to witness anything no showing, you just attack a district, no show then go play pubs.
"Make America Great Again"
Donald Trump 2016
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Alaika Arbosa
No Context
2
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 19:12:00 -
[109] - Quote
hails8n wrote:Devadander wrote:Sad truth is we all know about pc macros, throttling, web tethers, equipment spam, suit changing constantly, explosion spam, general nastiness.
The ability to pay for ringers, bribes, eve support, unlimited ads/HAV, etc.
All time zones covered.
Even with an A game, nobody can compete...
I'll bet alot of these no shows are from farm corps, probably people you know and don't very much care for. Some would say it was asked for.
After years of blue donut style control, what do you expect?
Already gathering to discuss changes to a system put in place to wear you down...
I'll be done with this game. You're gonna quit playing because you cant no show, What?! I mean you don't really get to witness anything no showing, you just attack a district, no show then go play pubs.
lol
You're all but saying the same thing if no-shows can occur.
The hypocrisy is strong in this one.
Weaponized Boredom and the wait it induces is apparently the kryptonite to these kids.
I <3 introducing reddots to ragdoll physics!
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
517
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 19:33:00 -
[110] - Quote
The fact that pc corps stomped any new blood out for years that managed to scrape up the isk; Simply because they got there first. Makes this priceless.
Any and all complaints were met with "hue hue, gitgud, htfu, QQ, etc"
One month of torture on the reverse and its "plsfix" time.
Lol
Do I no show? Nope.
Do I think it's hilarious?
Hell yeah!
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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|
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
517
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 19:42:00 -
[111] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:hails8n wrote:Devadander wrote:Sad truth is we all know about pc macros, throttling, web tethers, equipment spam, suit changing constantly, explosion spam, general nastiness.
The ability to pay for ringers, bribes, eve support, unlimited ads/HAV, etc.
All time zones covered.
Even with an A game, nobody can compete...
I'll bet alot of these no shows are from farm corps, probably people you know and don't very much care for. Some would say it was asked for.
After years of blue donut style control, what do you expect?
Already gathering to discuss changes to a system put in place to wear you down...
I'll be done with this game. You're gonna quit playing because you cant no show, What?! I mean you don't really get to witness anything no showing, you just attack a district, no show then go play pubs. lol You're all but saying the same thing if no-shows can occur. The hypocrisy is strong in this one. Weaponized Boredom and the wait it induces is apparently the kryptonite to these kids.
This is New Eden after all.. Can't I enjoy some suffering?
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
406
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 19:58:00 -
[112] - Quote
Devadander wrote:The fact that pc corps stomped any new blood out for years that managed to scrape up the isk; Simply because they got there first. Makes this priceless.
Any and all complaints were met with "hue hue, gitgud, htfu, QQ, etc"
One month of torture on the reverse and its "plsfix" time.
Lol
Do I no show? Nope.
Do I think it's hilarious?
Hell yeah!
Ok and, whats stopping people from no showing smaller corps that want to own a district? It happens to everyone, my last 5 PCs were no shows, no surprise attacks after or anything, just flat out no shows. Which is the reason I'm not playing PC.
"Make America Great Again"
Donald Trump 2016
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 21:12:00 -
[113] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Devadander wrote:I am the operator. We're a group of about 8 buds in a casual corp. Me and my directors are loaded from assets/long time play. We play pubs in mostly bpo to keep it real and keep isk positive.
This is most of the corps that don't pc.
We really don't want to be tied to defending a district constantly. Raiding is fun and lucrative. (More than pubs/fw anyway) I don't want to lead any revolutions honestly.
I see some 1v16 matches in my future. Can't wait.
And still think no-show is a valid tactic. Just not so much for me. Understandable, but it seems you guys are doing more with 8 than some with hundreds. If you want to thrash somebody I can point you in the right direction for a team. Either way, have fun. Is that what this is about? You guys are hoping for fresh blood in the PC game since you're all too sick of playing together/against one another so you need the fresh blood so you can extort payment for ringing out of the new guys? I still find it amusing how much people complain about lag and [FILL_IN_THE_BLANK] ARE OP NERF! NERF!! and then try to say that this game is meant to be competitive. Last night there was a thread about BlOps2 and how it (or any other COD) never lags but Dust lags terrible. This game is a game, it is meant to be fun. It is no where near competitive now and nor will it ever be until we're playing it on LANs or have literally instant telecomms.I just think it is hilarious how the chest beaters get over this game when there are other things that can (and should) be used for chest beating purposes rather than this game we all play.
So we should all hide in the redline because only the bad players lag a lot?
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 21:19:00 -
[114] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Sad truth is we all know about pc macros, throttling, web tethers, equipment spam, suit changing constantly, explosion spam, general nastiness.
The ability to pay for ringers, bribes, eve support, unlimited ads/HAV, etc.
All time zones covered.
Even with an A game, nobody can compete...
I'll bet alot of these no shows are from farm corps, probably people you know and don't very much care for. Some would say it was asked for.
After years of blue donut style control, what do you expect?
Already gathering to discuss changes to a system put in place to wear you down...
I'll be done with this game.
I get the animosity toward PC players and the fact that so few dominated so much. But those mechanics were CCP's fault. They ignored team play until the playerbase as a whole has no clue how to play as a team.
These current mechanics allow people to do multiple PCs a day for free (clone packs), get DK, and get ISK even in a loss. There's nothing to lose. You can't help but get better if you try. |
Alaika Arbosa
No Context
2
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 22:46:00 -
[115] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Devadander wrote:I am the operator. We're a group of about 8 buds in a casual corp. Me and my directors are loaded from assets/long time play. We play pubs in mostly bpo to keep it real and keep isk positive.
This is most of the corps that don't pc.
We really don't want to be tied to defending a district constantly. Raiding is fun and lucrative. (More than pubs/fw anyway) I don't want to lead any revolutions honestly.
I see some 1v16 matches in my future. Can't wait.
And still think no-show is a valid tactic. Just not so much for me. Understandable, but it seems you guys are doing more with 8 than some with hundreds. If you want to thrash somebody I can point you in the right direction for a team. Either way, have fun. Is that what this is about? You guys are hoping for fresh blood in the PC game since you're all too sick of playing together/against one another so you need the fresh blood so you can extort payment for ringing out of the new guys? I still find it amusing how much people complain about lag and [FILL_IN_THE_BLANK] ARE OP NERF! NERF!! and then try to say that this game is meant to be competitive. Last night there was a thread about BlOps2 and how it (or any other COD) never lags but Dust lags terrible. This game is a game, it is meant to be fun. It is no where near competitive now and nor will it ever be until we're playing it on LANs or have literally instant telecomms.I just think it is hilarious how the chest beaters get over this game when there are other things that can (and should) be used for chest beating purposes rather than this game we all play. So we should all hide in the redline because only the bad players lag a lot?
Where exactly did I type that?
I <3 introducing reddots to ragdoll physics!
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
235
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Posted - 2015.08.04 23:02:00 -
[116] - Quote
hails8n wrote:
Ok and, whats stopping people from no showing smaller corps that want to own a district? It happens to everyone, my last 5 PCs were no shows, no surprise attacks after or anything, just flat out no shows. Which is the reason I'm not playing PC.
So weaponized boredom got you to stop logging in for PC.
Op success.
That is the whole point of sending no shows, demoralize the enemy so they don't fight back.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
406
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Posted - 2015.08.05 00:47:00 -
[117] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:hails8n wrote:
Ok and, whats stopping people from no showing smaller corps that want to own a district? It happens to everyone, my last 5 PCs were no shows, no surprise attacks after or anything, just flat out no shows. Which is the reason I'm not playing PC.
So weaponized boredom got you to stop logging in for PC. Op success. That is the whole point of sending no shows, demoralize the enemy so they don't fight back.
Do you even PC? You're in NF alliance, you guys get all the no shows.
If so, whats the point of showing up to a PC if its likely to be a no show. I'm just playing smart and not wasting my time.
"Make America Great Again"
Donald Trump 2016
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
236
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 02:01:00 -
[118] - Quote
hails8n wrote:General Mosquito wrote:hails8n wrote:
Ok and, whats stopping people from no showing smaller corps that want to own a district? It happens to everyone, my last 5 PCs were no shows, no surprise attacks after or anything, just flat out no shows. Which is the reason I'm not playing PC.
So weaponized boredom got you to stop logging in for PC. Op success. That is the whole point of sending no shows, demoralize the enemy so they don't fight back. Do you even PC? You're in NF alliance, you guys get all the no shows. If so, whats the point of showing up to a PC if its likely to be a no show. I'm just playing smart and not wasting my time.
Why would I PC? I don't need or want turf, and sitting in the alliance channels is bad for my sanity. I had more than enough of shitlers trying to be space Napoleon.
The only way I would be involved with PC anymore is eve side, because at least there I get decent game performance. Having a competitive game mode with such inconsistent performance is laughable.
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
517
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Posted - 2015.08.05 14:20:00 -
[119] - Quote
Brought nine against OP, those guys are toxic.
The fanmail was real.
Lost again, had a blast again, profited again.
However, in an interesting development; my troops wanted to bulk to 16 and re-attack 
I have access to enough rockstars we could actually take a district. I have fc in pc wins in the past. I just honestly don't want land.
I'm torn here, the troops are having fun ATM. If I make it serious, the fun will dry up. But the general tone is "lets get crazy and win a few"
No I don't need ringers, just advice. What does a captain do in this situation?
(Still happy the no shows drive men mad lol)
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
407
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Posted - 2015.08.05 16:30:00 -
[120] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Brought nine against OP, those guys are toxic. The fanmail was real. Lost again, had a blast again, profited again. However, in an interesting development; my troops wanted to bulk to 16 and re-attack I have access to enough rockstars we could actually take a district. I have fc in pc wins in the past. I just honestly don't want land. I'm torn here, the troops are having fun ATM. If I make it serious, the fun will dry up. But the general tone is "lets get crazy and win a few" No I don't need ringers, just advice. What does a captain do in this situation? (Still happy the no shows drive men mad lol)
I decided to only take part in attacks yesterday. So unless you have a district you'll never see me in PC.
"Make America Great Again"
Donald Trump 2016
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DEATH THE KlD
Imperfect - Bastards
286
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Posted - 2015.08.05 16:39:00 -
[121] - Quote
PC is still pointless so I guess I can understand no showing... Even though I don't like it..there is no dik store so that part of PC is pointless..PC is still a joke, the best option is to bring more incentive to PC for attackers and defenders both fix lag/frame rates then port to anything else |
Krixus Flux
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
966
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Posted - 2015.08.05 17:41:00 -
[122] - Quote
General Mosquito wrote:Why are people touchy about no shows?
It is, and should remain an effective way to harass a larger, stronger group.
If a corp wants to earn and then spend their CP, why should they be restricted from it because it works at making big groups salty?
BTW, if you form up an hour before a PC, its your own fault for getting bored. Get better organized.
So much this
Saying what's on people's minds
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Ghost Kaisar
Negative-Feedback
12
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Posted - 2015.08.05 18:12:00 -
[123] - Quote
hails8n wrote:General Mosquito wrote:hails8n wrote:
Ok and, whats stopping people from no showing smaller corps that want to own a district? It happens to everyone, my last 5 PCs were no shows, no surprise attacks after or anything, just flat out no shows. Which is the reason I'm not playing PC.
So weaponized boredom got you to stop logging in for PC. Op success. That is the whole point of sending no shows, demoralize the enemy so they don't fight back. Do you even PC? You're in NF alliance, you guys get all the no shows. If so, whats the point of showing up to a PC if its likely to be a no show. I'm just playing smart and not wasting my time.
That's The Attorney General.
He doesn't PC much anymore, but he was no doubt a legendary tanker for PC back in his time.
I remember when him, legend, and Ken would literally sh*t on any vehicle presence when they were rolling their tanks. The terrible trio were fearsome indeed.
Currently listening to: Tsukihime OST
Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
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hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
409
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 18:27:00 -
[124] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:hails8n wrote:General Mosquito wrote:hails8n wrote:
Ok and, whats stopping people from no showing smaller corps that want to own a district? It happens to everyone, my last 5 PCs were no shows, no surprise attacks after or anything, just flat out no shows. Which is the reason I'm not playing PC.
So weaponized boredom got you to stop logging in for PC. Op success. That is the whole point of sending no shows, demoralize the enemy so they don't fight back. Do you even PC? You're in NF alliance, you guys get all the no shows. If so, whats the point of showing up to a PC if its likely to be a no show. I'm just playing smart and not wasting my time. That's The Attorney General. He doesn't PC much anymore, but he was no doubt a legendary tanker for PC back in his time. I remember when him, legend, and Ken would literally sh*t on any vehicle presence when they were rolling their tanks. The terrible trio were fearsome indeed.
Then why don't you make out with him?
"Make America Great Again"
Donald Trump 2016
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Alaika Arbosa
No Context
2
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Posted - 2015.08.05 18:36:00 -
[125] - Quote
hails8n wrote:
Then why don't you make out with him?
hails8n wrote:
I decided to only take part in attacks yesterday. So unless you have a district you'll never see me in PC.
Am I the only one who heard Eric Cartman saying this while reading them?
This **** is too rich, I may just break my laugh box.
I <3 introducing reddots to ragdoll physics!
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General Mosquito
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
246
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 18:41:00 -
[126] - Quote
hails8n wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:hails8n wrote:General Mosquito wrote:hails8n wrote:
Ok and, whats stopping people from no showing smaller corps that want to own a district? It happens to everyone, my last 5 PCs were no shows, no surprise attacks after or anything, just flat out no shows. Which is the reason I'm not playing PC.
So weaponized boredom got you to stop logging in for PC. Op success. That is the whole point of sending no shows, demoralize the enemy so they don't fight back. Do you even PC? You're in NF alliance, you guys get all the no shows. If so, whats the point of showing up to a PC if its likely to be a no show. I'm just playing smart and not wasting my time. That's The Attorney General. He doesn't PC much anymore, but he was no doubt a legendary tanker for PC back in his time. I remember when him, legend, and Ken would literally sh*t on any vehicle presence when they were rolling their tanks. The terrible trio were fearsome indeed. Then why don't you make out with him?
Why are you so salty? Because you got defeated by empty teams?
The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
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Ghost Kaisar
Negative-Feedback
12
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 19:34:00 -
[127] - Quote
hails8n wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:hails8n wrote:General Mosquito wrote:hails8n wrote:
Ok and, whats stopping people from no showing smaller corps that want to own a district? It happens to everyone, my last 5 PCs were no shows, no surprise attacks after or anything, just flat out no shows. Which is the reason I'm not playing PC.
So weaponized boredom got you to stop logging in for PC. Op success. That is the whole point of sending no shows, demoralize the enemy so they don't fight back. Do you even PC? You're in NF alliance, you guys get all the no shows. If so, whats the point of showing up to a PC if its likely to be a no show. I'm just playing smart and not wasting my time. That's The Attorney General. He doesn't PC much anymore, but he was no doubt a legendary tanker for PC back in his time. I remember when him, legend, and Ken would literally sh*t on any vehicle presence when they were rolling their tanks. The terrible trio were fearsome indeed. Then why don't you make out with him?
Suffice to say, his Proto Large Railgun is too much for me to handle.
Currently listening to: Tsukihime OST
Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
518
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 22:11:00 -
[128] - Quote
You should see some of the fanmail from a no show.
Mana from heaven.
My brother corp did a no show and got some of the most colorful poetry ever.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
409
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 23:14:00 -
[129] - Quote
Bump
"Make America Great Again"
Donald Trump 2016
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