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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8885
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Posted - 2015.04.18 03:54:00 -
[91] - Quote
Vyuru wrote:
That's what it sounds like he was doing at anyrate. Toss in a CardReg for fast stamina regen, I'd be willing to guess that he can make his stamina last a very long time with lots of jumps.
1 complex cardreg doubles the number of times you can jump. I didn't realize that this was the case until testing it a few minutes ago.
If the hopping gets out of hand, I'd propose that Rattati either fix the jump cost at 25% of stamina pool (meaning cardregs would have no effect on jump count) or wire myofib-aided jumps such that the higher the jump, the greater the stamina cost. Example:
Run 0x myofibs and get 4 normal jumps from your stamina pool
Run 2x myofibs and get 2 large jumps from your stamina pool
Run 4x myo and get 1 massive jump with your stamina pool
(8 back-to-back massive jumps at the cost of 1 cardreg is a 'bit silly)
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4346
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Posted - 2015.04.18 04:02:00 -
[92] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
I'm of the opinion that High HP and High Mobility should not coexist. These two stats contribute more to survivability than any other,
Having a scaled inverse relationship between those two with Scouts at one end and Sentinels at the other makes sense to me.
And I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one. 
0.02 ISK
Cross
CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2165
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Posted - 2015.04.18 08:09:00 -
[93] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I still scout and it feels fine.
Maybe you're using scouts wrong? Assaults are light fighters, scouts are more highly mobile support- harassing the enemy indirectly by hacking ****, squashing hidden uplinks, and hunting snipers/swarms.
If you get into a fight as a scout that doesn't involve you killing someone before they know what's going on, you're doing it wrong.
Would be interested to know what your idea of doing it right is? You appear to imply our descriptions of encounters in this thread is doing it wrong....what's the right way?
ToRgUe77 wrote:if you're 1v1 an assault head on you're doing it wrong and should just give up. scouts aren't supposed to be able to take out assaults head on,that's why they are fast and sneaky. scouts are meant to out play they're foes not tank through damage.
Another one that thinks this suggestion is advocating frontal assaults as a viable style for scouts. What leads you to believe that is what is being suggested here? I'm genuinely interested because you are *at least* the third person to think this. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
8154
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Posted - 2015.04.18 09:54:00 -
[94] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
I'm of the opinion that High HP and High Mobility should not coexist. These two stats contribute more to survivability than any other,
Having a scaled inverse relationship between those two with Scouts at one end and Sentinels at the other makes sense to me. And I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one. 0.02 ISK Cross
The problem with the statement here is minmatar suits if you speed spike them are almost as fragile as a scout
If you armor them up they lose the speed advantage.
If you brick 'em they're almost as easy to hit as a sentinel.
Min suits can do a little but of everything. But if you do that you wind up being someone's punch dummy.
If you specialize the fit you lose the versatility factor.
The gallente suit is the other fast suit, and bluntly the insistance that gallente weapons be universally CQC means if you choose to use them you have to be able to fast attack.
Scouts? Speed spiked scouts can be inside your guard before they register on the scanner. The only time I have an easy time of them us when they jump at me. Thank you myofib spam.
Damped scouts are weird. Bluntly the scanner mechanics are pretty much boned. They need to have a margin for error randomizer so scout damping isn't utterly dependent upon having as low a DB as possible.
Honestly the suits themselves have never been horrible. The mechanics orbiting the suits, however...
AV
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
3108
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Posted - 2015.04.18 12:35:00 -
[95] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:OR
Scouts should be based on doing actual Scout work, and EWAR. It's great to see people moving faster. I just wish the game supported this kind of movement more. I must've missed the part where Rattati reversed Scout EWAR nerfs, removed Falloff, removed team share from Active Scanners, replaced the GalLogi bonus, and added Recon Assist WP for Scout Passive Scans. When did all that happen? You're stating scanning changes, I said EWAR. If not scanning, what exactly do you mean by Scout work and EWAR?
Do you not know what a scout is, and what EWAR is?
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Slave of MORTE
381
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Posted - 2015.04.18 13:42:00 -
[96] - Quote
I have both scout and assault roles the balance is fine ..gg
I'm her slave because amarrians are the best in the sheets #stamina
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Slave of MORTE
381
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Posted - 2015.04.18 13:45:00 -
[97] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:As an Amarr assault I die to scouts more than any other class. Also anecdotal -- but no less true.
Fit a pe..
I'm her slave because amarrians are the best in the sheets #stamina
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4350
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Posted - 2015.04.18 15:19:00 -
[98] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Cross Atu wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
I'm of the opinion that High HP and High Mobility should not coexist. These two stats contribute more to survivability than any other,
Having a scaled inverse relationship between those two with Scouts at one end and Sentinels at the other makes sense to me. And I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one. 0.02 ISK Cross The problem with the statement here is minmatar suits if you speed spike them are almost as fragile as a scout If you armor them up they lose the speed advantage. If you brick 'em they're almost as easy to hit as a sentinel. Min suits can do a little but of everything. But if you do that you wind up being someone's punch dummy. If you specialize the fit you lose the versatility factor. The gallente suit is the other fast suit, and bluntly the insistance that gallente weapons be universally CQC means if you choose to use them you have to be able to fast attack. Scouts? Speed spiked scouts can be inside your guard before they register on the scanner. The only time I have an easy time of them us when they jump at me. Thank you myofib spam. Damped scouts are weird. Bluntly the scanner mechanics are pretty much boned. They need to have a margin for error randomizer so scout damping isn't utterly dependent upon having as low a DB as possible. Honestly the suits themselves have never been horrible. The mechanics orbiting the suits, however...
Not sure how any of these highlights a problem with the above statement
Racial paradigms are another 'axis of shift' that should be considered of course, but even within that have a general trend of trade off between speed and raw HP buffer not only seems sensible it seems like an already established general (if not quite universal/polished) method already in place within Dust from the earliest days, one need look no further than the light to heavy progression and the conceptualization of same that has been put forward to see that.
Now whether or not that is iterated correctly at this point is an entirely separate matter, and that needs to be addressed of course because without it there's no actual balance, but it not being done well doesn't impugn the fundamental concept.
CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8910
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Posted - 2015.04.18 16:18:00 -
[99] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:
Now whether or not that is iterated correctly at this point is an entirely separate matter ...
Spitballing ...
Objectives
* Max HP: Sentinel > Commando > Assault > Logi > Scout
* Mobility: Sentinel < Commando < Assault < Logi < Scout
Approach A
1. Implement Rattati's mass:movement model
Benefits
Meets objectives most elegantly; not a "quick fix"; very easily fine tuned
Drawbacks
Significant design and implementation time; expensive; likely a long wait
Approach B
1. Reduce Assault base HP and/or slot count
Benefits
Meets objectives
Drawbacks
Risks return of Assault Lite out-slaying Assaults; upsets Heavy v Assault interplay
Approach C
1. Reduce Assault base speeds by a fixed percentage
2. Add low-slot to commandos to increase max HP potential
3. Increase and retool plate penalties by Frame (high penalty to Light, low penalty to Heavy)
Benefits
Meets objectives; Assault Lite resurgence deterred; Heavy interplay largely unaffected
Drawbacks
Potentially upsets intra-class armor v. shield parity (if shields v armor are presently in balance)
Approach D
1. Swap Logi and Assault base speeds
2. Add low-slot to commandos to increase max HP potential
3. Increase and retool plate penalties by Frame (high penalty to Light, low penalty to Heavy)
Benefits
Meets objectives; Assault Lite resurgence deterred; Heavy interplay largely unaffected; Logi survivability improved
Drawbacks
Potentially upsets intra-class armor v. shield parity (if shields v armor are presently in balance)
My two cents:
Approach A would be ideal, but it'd also be alot of work. Approach D (or something like it) is the best "quick fix" I can think of; I'm of the opinion that "brick up" is the prevailing meta, and that increased drawbacks to plates would bring shields v armor closer to parity.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Francisco Walker
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4
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Posted - 2015.04.18 16:33:00 -
[100] - Quote
Nice! Sometimes is hard to know what is real parameters and if they are correct, and in fact, applying to the game.
I agree with you about your comments on points 2 and 3 in my last post.
Don't you think that a distance of 6 m is too close to give any response when someone is attacking from behind?
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8915
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Posted - 2015.04.18 16:58:00 -
[101] - Quote
Francisco Walker wrote:Nice! Sometimes is hard to know what is real parameters and if they are correct, and in fact, applying to the game. I agree with you about your comments on points 2 and 3 in my last post. Don't you think that a distance of 6 m is too close to give any response when someone is attacking from behind?
That's an excellent question.
In instances where a target is standing still and a CQC Scout is rushing in from behind, that Scout blips only briefly on the target's TacNet. The target himself will likely not notice the brief blip before being engaged. Stationary, lone targets are ideal for quick takedown, though a successful takedown/escape even in these optimal cases is by no means guaranteed. Explanation.
Ideal targets (lone, stationary) are the exception. There's safety in numbers, and competent units tend to both travel and hold/take positions in groups. In instances where a competent unit is alone, he is almost always on the move. If I'm on the move and you're behind me, you and I will be traveling in the same direction. If your Scout sprints 0.5 m/s faster than my Assault, you will be on my TacNet for a full 2 seconds between 6m and 4m (shotgun range) and 7 seconds between 6m and 2.5m (NK range).
As a rule of thumb, it is a bad idea to chase down any Assault. And it is an especially a bad idea to try to chase down MN Assaults; these are typically both faster than double damp'd Scouts and have comparable stamina. They've twice your HP, you can't catch them, and they pause to rest no more often than you do.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Forced Death
Corrosive Synergy
Rise Of Legion.
575
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Posted - 2015.04.18 17:54:00 -
[102] - Quote
As long as I see Minmatar Assaults running faster than my scout, shotgunning people, have more HP, and never be found, I will say that scouts need a buff or assaults need a nerf
STD Active Scanner with Scan Profile of 46db too OP
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DR DEESE NUTS
79
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Posted - 2015.04.18 19:33:00 -
[103] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:... I definately think min assault needs its mobility nerfed (some say speed, I'd like to start with stamina, who knows) Just watched a 600HP MN Assault hop 50ft into the air literally 5x in a row. At maximum, he should get 2 of those ridiculous (4x myo) jumps before his stamina pool is completely drained. So yes, you're right, nerf MN Assault stamina pool. Also, reduce its base movement from 5.30 to 5.20 to normalize comparative speed progressions. Finally, swap Assault and Logi movement speeds.
Guess someone wants to the new fotm.
The USS m`dick
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
9525
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Posted - 2015.04.18 19:37:00 -
[104] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Cross Atu wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
I'm of the opinion that High HP and High Mobility should not coexist. These two stats contribute more to survivability than any other,
Having a scaled inverse relationship between those two with Scouts at one end and Sentinels at the other makes sense to me. And I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one. 0.02 ISK Cross The problem with the statement here is minmatar suits if you speed spike them are almost as fragile as a scout If you armor them up they lose the speed advantage. If you brick 'em they're almost as easy to hit as a sentinel. Min suits can do a little but of everything. But if you do that you wind up being someone's punch dummy. If you specialize the fit you lose the versatility factor. The gallente suit is the other fast suit, and bluntly the insistance that gallente weapons be universally CQC means if you choose to use them you have to be able to fast attack. Scouts? Speed spiked scouts can be inside your guard before they register on the scanner. The only time I have an easy time of them us when they jump at me. Thank you myofib spam. Damped scouts are weird. Bluntly the scanner mechanics are pretty much boned. They need to have a margin for error randomizer so scout damping isn't utterly dependent upon having as low a DB as possible. Honestly the suits themselves have never been horrible. The mechanics orbiting the suits, however...
I think you under estimate what the HP difference of Min Scouts/Assaults are, and how that factors into actual game play.
I have a M-1 Assault that I simply dampen, and throw on a CR and Flaylock, and have significantly more survivability in terms of scoutly type play. I can flank, engage, and overcome any HP disadvantages with stealth (aside from heavies, but that is as it should be).
Because I have a weapon which has an effective range greater than the scans that would pick me up, it is really not a problem. And because of the innate speed, I really don't even need to speed tank, just dampen.
On my Minja, not only do I have to dampen to make Knifing even remotely viable, I have so little HP that I often cannot even make any evasive maneuvers before being killed once spotted. I try constantly to find cover, and usually die as soon as I am spotted. And cloaking helps only marginally in the open given how visible being cloaked still is.
To suggest that Scouts have always been "fine" goes against what we know given the pre 1.8 history. At the very least, Assaults are over performing at the moment, which needs addressing, and perhaps that will be sufficient.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8926
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Posted - 2015.04.18 19:42:00 -
[105] - Quote
DR DEESE NUTS wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:... I definately think min assault needs its mobility nerfed (some say speed, I'd like to start with stamina, who knows) Just watched a 600HP MN Assault hop 50ft into the air literally 5x in a row. At maximum, he should get 2 of those ridiculous (4x myo) jumps before his stamina pool is completely drained. So yes, you're right, nerf MN Assault stamina pool. Also, reduce its base movement from 5.30 to 5.20 to normalize comparative speed progressions. Finally, swap Assault and Logi movement speeds. Guess someone wants to [be] the new fotm.
I want Dust to be the best it can be, and I believe that role balance plays a big part in that. The very last thing I want is another round of FoTM / OP Scouts.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2178
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Posted - 2015.04.18 20:24:00 -
[106] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:OR
Scouts should be based on doing actual Scout work, and EWAR. It's great to see people moving faster. I just wish the game supported this kind of movement more. I must've missed the part where Rattati reversed Scout EWAR nerfs, removed Falloff, removed team share from Active Scanners, replaced the GalLogi bonus, and added Recon Assist WP for Scout Passive Scans. When did all that happen? You're stating scanning changes, I said EWAR. If not scanning, what exactly do you mean by Scout work and EWAR? Do you not know what a scout is, and what EWAR is?
Blubby hell dude - just answer the question. This sort of retort is silly. I don't know the answer to your question either. Talk straight. |
Vyuru
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
123
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Posted - 2015.04.18 23:58:00 -
[107] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:OR
Scouts should be based on doing actual Scout work, and EWAR. It's great to see people moving faster. I just wish the game supported this kind of movement more. I must've missed the part where Rattati reversed Scout EWAR nerfs, removed Falloff, removed team share from Active Scanners, replaced the GalLogi bonus, and added Recon Assist WP for Scout Passive Scans. When did all that happen? You're stating scanning changes, I said EWAR. If not scanning, what exactly do you mean by Scout work and EWAR? Do you not know what a scout is, and what EWAR is?
Allright, gloves off, I am sick and tired of this "do you not know what EWAR is?" stuff that certain people like to toss around, and like to use as a pedestal why scouts are supposedly "ok". Do you even scout? Do YOU even know what EWAR means?
Now I'm going to use Eve as an example here for EWAR.
For EWAR, we have:
Energy Neuts
Energy Vampires
Targeted ECMs
Burst ECMs
Signal Distortion Amps
Tracking Disruptors
Remote Sensor Damps
Target Painters
Sensor Boosters
Remote Sensor Boosters
Cloaks
Warp Disruptors
Warp Scramblers
Stasis Webifiers
Command Ships, and assorted skills/modules
EWAR Drones
Some of the above serve multiple roles. For example, Sensor Boosters require scripts to use, and you can either load it with +tracking speed scripts, or +range scripts. So the variety of EWAR that Eve has is actually more than the above list takes into account. THEN there are all of the counters to the above that I haven't even listed.
The above, is actual EWAR.
Now, kindly tell me what EWAR functionality there is in Dust 514.
Let's see if I got this right, Dust 514 has:
Cloaks
Damps
Scanners
Precision Enhancers
Range Amps <<< which are effectively worthless according to 90% of the community.
So really, the only form of EWAR Dust 514 has going for it is whether or not, or how soon, you show up on the radar, and cloaks that still render you highly visible. And all of that means jack squat if someone gets eyes on you.
WOOOOOO! Go Dust 514 EWAR!
Dust 514's EWAR is in an incredibly rudimentary state, it is so basic it's almost not even worth calling EWAR. I would LOVE for Dust 514 to have it's EWAR capability to be expanded. And I would love to have Scout and Logistic suits to be tweaked to be the EWAR suits, maybe even Commando suits too.
However, to claim that an entire suit class is "balanced" around this nonexistant EWAR, is ludicrous, at best.
And when you can have Gal Logi's lighting everything up for what, 100 meters? Not much room for that scout to do any, you know, scouting work. |
RedPencil
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
177
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Posted - 2015.04.19 02:09:00 -
[108] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:All Approach A - D...
Did you forget about the Precision inner ring?
Correct ones are (50%, 100%, 130%) respectively.
Change to (70%, 100%, 130%) respectively.
So, Assault 0 Precision mod pickup Scout 0 Damp under inner ring.
And, Assault 1 Precision mod pickup Scout 1 Damp under inner ring.
Last, Assault 2 Precision mod will not pickup Scout 2+ Damp under inner ring.
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Starlight Burner
Arrary of Clusters
213
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Posted - 2015.04.19 02:23:00 -
[109] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:All Approach A - D... Did you forget about the Precision inner ring? Correct ones are (50%, 100%, 130%) respectively. Change to (70%, 100%, 130%) respectively. So, Assault 0 Precision mod pickup Scout 0 Damp under inner ring. And, Assault 1 Precision mod pickup Scout 1 Damp under inner ring. Last, Assault 2 Precision mod will not pickup Scout 2+ Damp under inner ring.
No, I don't agree with that. If you're right up on me, I should be able to pick you up.
Seriously, this doesn't need to get changed.
CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation
Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today!
Thank you for DUST
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RedPencil
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
177
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Posted - 2015.04.19 02:39:00 -
[110] - Quote
Starlight Burner wrote:RedPencil wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:All Approach A - D... Did you forget about the Precision inner ring? Correct ones are (50%, 100%, 130%) respectively. Change to (70%, 100%, 130%) respectively. So, Assault 0 Precision mod pickup Scout 0 Damp under inner ring. And, Assault 1 Precision mod pickup Scout 1 Damp under inner ring. Last, Assault 2 Precision mod will not pickup Scout 2+ Damp under inner ring. No, I don't agree with that. If you're right up on me, I should be able to pick you up. Seriously, this doesn't need to get changed.
Then tell me why we have EWAR in the first place?
The original propose from Rattati was to make EWAR viable for all the suit not only scout, BUT REQUIRE TO EQUIP A MODULE TO DO SO.
BTW, you still able to pickup a Scout if you equip a Pricision enhance.
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8931
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Posted - 2015.04.19 04:01:00 -
[111] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:All Approach A - D... Did you forget about the Precision inner ring?
Better to fix the biggest problem first. I'm painfully aware of the problems created by Falloff, but I believe that the present lack of tradeoff between HP and Mobility represents a greater problem. Regardless of what changes are or are not made to EWAR, if 600-800HP slayer units are still keeping pace with 300-400HP speed/stealth units, then classes will remain out-of-balance. In my opinion, we should start with mass:movement; if interplay issues persist, then we should move on to tuning lesser problems.
Intense inner rings get alot of hate from CQC Scouts, but they were introduced for a good reason. Even after decloak/fire delay and cloakblind, shotgun kill/spawn efficiency was still too high when compared to other weapons. Nerfing range obviously wouldn't have been an option, and nerfing damage or RoF would've given heavies a free pass. Through Falloff, Rattati found a way to introduce new risk factors and decrease shotgun kill/spawn efficiency without directly nerfing the weapon. Compared to the available alternatives, this was a good move.
The biggest drawback to intense inner rings is that NK Scouts (like you) took an undeserved hit on account of SG Scouts (like me). Then FoTM MN Assault spam happened, and we both got boned. Then myofibs happened, and we both got boned again. Lol.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8931
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Posted - 2015.04.19 04:23:00 -
[112] - Quote
Starlight Burner wrote:RedPencil wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:All Approach A - D... Did you forget about the Precision inner ring? Correct ones are (50%, 100%, 130%) respectively. Change to (70%, 100%, 130%) respectively. So, Assault 0 Precision mod pickup Scout 0 Damp under inner ring. And, Assault 1 Precision mod pickup Scout 1 Damp under inner ring. Last, Assault 2 Precision mod will not pickup Scout 2+ Damp under inner ring. No, I don't agree with that. If you're right up on me, I should be able to pick you up. Seriously, this doesn't need to get changed.
No other competitive FPS I've ever played alerts players to an incoming backstab. When another player manages to get the drop on me then sneak up within a few meters of my arse and pull the trigger, I know I deserve to die. I'd die in any other shooter.
It's called getting outplayed. What you have now -- what you say "doesn't need to get changed" -- is called a free pass. You get outsmarted and you get outplayed, yet you get an opportunity to overcome. It's pretty much BS by any competitive standard.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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VALCORE72
Vengeance Unbound
RUST415
292
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Posted - 2015.04.19 12:59:00 -
[113] - Quote
scouts had 6 months of bull sht lol there good right where there at .
asian haters united lol .
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Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
507
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Posted - 2015.04.19 13:18:00 -
[114] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Or nerf Assaults. The imbalance between the two is plain as day from my POV; the tougher the fight, the more obvious the imbalance. I'm willing to bet that kill/spawn efficiency data is mirroring usage data. It shouldn't take much. Dialing back Assault mobility would be a great start, and might just do the trick.
So you want scouts to always be number 1 as far as being OP. Rock /Paper/Scissor .The problem is the paper scout is heavier then the Rock and sharper than the scissor.
Or is this about Jumping scouts vs Jumping assaults is this what this thread is about?
Don't both have the same amount of time in the Air. |
Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
507
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Posted - 2015.04.19 13:26:00 -
[115] - Quote
Forced Death wrote:As long as I see Minmatar Assaults running faster than my scout, shotgunning people, have more HP, and never be found, I will say that scouts need a buff or assaults need a nerf
Then Heavy needs to be able to see (Increased scan Precision) and or given a extra 500 hp they are dying too quickly
And I don't know how to buff logi without making it a slayer.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8952
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Posted - 2015.04.19 16:31:00 -
[116] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:All Approach A - D... Did you forget about the Precision inner ring? Correct ones are (50%, 100%, 130%) respectively. Change to (70%, 100%, 130%) respectively. So, Assault 0 Precision mod pickup Scout 0 Damp under inner ring. And, Assault 1 Precision mod pickup Scout 1 Damp under inner ring. Last, Assault 2 Precision mod will not pickup Scout 2+ Damp under inner ring.
Still thinking about this, RedPencil.
Put together some maths, as well as a couple alternative spitballs:
Google Doc
Under 50/100/130 ---> 70/100/130, you'll see that Gallente and Caldari Scouts would be able to duck even amplified passives with only one dampener. This could lead to the "invisible monster" problem which we observed following 1.8 (heavily tanked, TacNet immune GalScouts and CalScouts). Just like high-speed + high-hp causes balance problems, high-hp + stealth does the same. Further, the increased risk to shotgunners under 50/100/130 is the only thing keeping the shotgun from becoming overly efficient again.
The Shotgun factor got me thinking. The whole point of 50/100/130 is to add risk to shotgunning to keep SG efficiency in check. Unfortunately, the same risk increase applies to Nova Knives. So what if wielding Nova Knives reduced one's profile? See NK-based Profile Modifier for specific maths.
Another (likely unpopular) option would be to simply nerf Assault Scan Precision. If Rattati were to rule that Assault mobility and HP potential must remain as is, then tuning precision might be the next best option. This would make Assaults more vulnerable when caught offguard by dampened Scouts, which would ease the imbalance between the two classes. I like this approach better than 70/100/130 as current interplay between Logi and Scout is maintained. See Assault Precision: 45dB ---> 50dB for specific maths.
TL;DR: Still think Mass:Mobility is the key to Assault v Scout balance, but you've got me thinking about backup plans :-)
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8953
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Posted - 2015.04.19 16:47:00 -
[117] - Quote
VALCORE72 wrote:scouts had 6 months of bull sht lol there good right where there at .
Which of these is not like the other?
Months of months of Broken AR-514: "Everything is fine", said the vast majority of AR-514.
Months of months of Broken Slayer Logis: "Everything is fine", said the vast majority of Slayers.
Months of months of Broken HAV and ADS: "Everything is fine", said the vast majority of Pilots.
Months of months of Broken HMGs: "Everything is fine", said the vast majority of Heavies.
Months of months of Broken Rail Rifles: "Everything is fine", said the vast majority of RR users.
Months of months of Broken Scrambler Rifles: "Everything is fine", said the vast majority of ScR users.
Months of months of Broken MN Assaults: "Everything is fine", said the vast majority of MN Assaults.
Months of months of Broken Scouts: "Here are some nerfs which will fix us", said the vast majority of Scouts.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2191
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Posted - 2015.04.19 22:51:00 -
[118] - Quote
VALCORE72 wrote:scouts had 6 months of bull sht lol there good right where there at .
wow. You think classes should take it in turns to be OP? Never heard a worse argument against a balance proposal. Thank goodness you're not running things. |
RedPencil
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
179
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Posted - 2015.04.19 23:05:00 -
[119] - Quote
- I think NK is in the critical spot. Any more than the current state will make it OP.
- I hold on to the idea of a tradeoff. I used to have 7+ fits just for Min scout alone and another 3 fits for Gal Scout, so that I can adapt base on the situation. Right now, it down to just only 2 + 1(Jumpy lol) for Min Scout and 1 fit for Gal Scout. The rest got deleted because it ainGÇÖt viable anymore.
- Yes, I still think 70/100/130 is solid. Here is my intent, A lazy MidFrame who has no precision mod will see some lazy scout. But if he willing to sacrifice his H slots to equip precision mods, he will see most scout and his whole team will also see it too. However, if he fit 2+ Precision mod but still canGÇÖt see an incoming scout, that only mean 2 thing. Either he is really suck or a scout was forced to sacrifice 2+ L slots to get under his radar.
Off topic
- All above are just my opinion, but one thing I know for sure, and I dare to bet 100ISK on isGǪ GÇ£Rattati wonGÇÖt do anything about this at least for the next 3 months.GÇ¥ Scout was on the top place, but now itGÇÖs time for the MidFrame to enjoy their glory.
- BTW, I would urge everyone tho watch Pyrex EP4.42 This like a big slap on Rattati face. I hope we weak up soon lol.
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8964
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Posted - 2015.04.19 23:49:00 -
[120] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:- I think NK is in the critical spot. Any more than the current state will make it OP.
Perhaps I was unclear about Nova Knives. I'm not suggesting that we make them stronger. I'm saying, what if equipping knives reduced a unit's scan profile? This would work around the current constraints of Falloff, which is aimed at preventing shotgun kill/spawn over-efficiency but likely contributes Nova Knife under-efficiency.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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