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IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2151
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Posted - 2015.04.17 12:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:True Adamance wrote:
NO MATH! I YIELD!
OK, without maths ... Medframe equips 1 complex precision enhancer. If he's an Assault, he now scans at 16dB out to 6 meters. If he's a Logi, he now scans at 16dB out to 8 meters. Say you're a Scout, and you want to backstab this guy without blipping on his and his entire squad's TacNet ... CA Scout - Impossible MN Scout - Impossible AM Scout - Needs 4 complex damps GA Scout - Needs 3 complex damps
It's not so much the blipping on his squad's tacnet that I care about. It's up to me to have an escape route and enough stamina left to get out of dodge. I feel that is a skillful thing that comes of experience, practice and good situational awareness.
What I do care about is the blipping on this guy's tacnet, rendering my skillful approach, flank and stab-twist-kill finish completely useless.
Frankly, any squad worth their salt will be on comms and this guy will verbally tell everyone where he just died to the dirty scout....assuming he just died and wasn't able to utilise his First Strike mechanic to raise a middle finger and smite the dirty scout ;-)
Anyway bottom line: I agree with addressing the mobility imbalance before anything else. The way that is set up feels instinctively wrong. Inverse HP <--> Mobility feels instinctively right. Apart from different class baselines, class is irrelevant. That HP module just added %age mobility penalty.
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2151
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Posted - 2015.04.17 12:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Starlight Burner wrote:
A scout is not supposed to win a 1v1 head on. I usually to always win a 1v1 scout situation when taken head on in my Assualt Gk.0 suit. This is balanced correctly.
[...]
Stop attacking from the front because you're supposed to be a scout.
I don't think you read or understood the argument. What I just paraphrased from you I agree with. What is being advocated is not designed to allows scouts to go frontal assault.
Starlight Burner wrote:
Scout definition: a soldier or other person sent out ahead of a main force so as to gather information about the enemy's position, strength, or movements.
Dude you can't pull a definition from anywhere you like and say that is what it should be. If you read the DUST description it is different to this. I won't even argue for implementing what the DUST definition says. I would urge you to consider what will happen if you make the scout what you want it to be. There won't be any scouts. Nobody wants to play an FPS where they are not supposed to kill.
You may not realise you made a wish, but be careful what you wish for. |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2151
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Posted - 2015.04.17 12:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Or nerf Assaults. The imbalance is plain as day from my POV; the tougher the fight, the more obvious the imbalance. I'm willing to bet that kill/spawn efficiency data is mirroring usage data. It shouldn't take much. Dialing back Assault mobility would be a great start, and might just do the trick. Hahahahaha. No. Assaults are supposed to be the combat front line. Sentinels and scouts are support units. Get used to the idea.
Mr Breakin Stuff, I usually look at your posts and think they are objective and add to the debate, but I can't fathom where you are getting the idea that what is being advocated here is to put scouts on the combat front line. As I said to the other guy earlier, if you read and understood the argument and what is being advocated for, you would see it is *not* to make scouts good at frontal assaulting. |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2162
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Posted - 2015.04.17 18:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:... to clarify I'd like to see assaults generally hitting around 600-800 hp, which I think would end up being perfectly fine, scouts should be 300-500, commandos 700-900 or so, heavies 1100-1300 or so. I think the only one that doesnt fit into these numbers are assaults or bricked scouts (which would also be disallowed by diminishing returns and are ineffective anyway), so hurrah? I'd add Logis in there somewhere between Scouts and Assaults, perhaps 400-600 range. The scale makes sense to me, so long as 800HP guys aren't running around at comparable speeds as the 300HP guys. In other words, as HP inclines along the scale Mobility should decline. Increasing plate penalties/drawbacks might work, but we'd have to be careful not to upset intra-class racial balance, overpenalize heavy frames, or underpenalize Light Frames (no one wants another round of Assault Lite). I think it'd be safer to first swap Assault and Logi speeds, then tune HP modules should additional tuning be warranted. I dont think logis belong in the speed>hp continuum, and to a lesser extent commandos dont really fit directly into it either. Reason being they are balanced by other factors. Commandos (should) have a significant damage advantage over other classes when using light weapons, and Logis have massive force multipliers when using equipment effectively. Both of these factors push them outside a raw hp vs. speed scale. In addition scouts see kind of the same effect, since their real advantage is dampening and scanning, not necessarily speed. In fact if we're talking about raw hp/speed/killing power, assaults clearly dominate scouts across the board, since you can fit x2 kincats on any assault suit, have the same number of modules remaining as a scout has base, and still have significantly higher base HP, so scouts dont really belong either. This is why I dont like the hp v. speed scale, because while I agree some classes might need to be toned up or down, I dont agree that it should be a uniform rule across all classes. Logis are fine as is. They dont need speed buffs. Commandos are **** right now. Giving them more speed isnt going to fix it. Scouts are... I dont know, they might actually need another module slot or something. But just giving them more speed or more hp or nerfing assault speed or hp isnt going to make them compete with assaults in an interesting way (i.e. not competing directly, but having a niche to excel in anyway).
I have to disagree with you regarding a scout's advantage is not in speed - it absolutely should be one of their strengths. They are the light class. They must play to their strengths, which should include mobility. The things I can do with a Minja at ~300HP and 10.38 m/s is absolutely a niche playstyle. I base my tactics around it. |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2165
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Posted - 2015.04.18 08:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I still scout and it feels fine.
Maybe you're using scouts wrong? Assaults are light fighters, scouts are more highly mobile support- harassing the enemy indirectly by hacking ****, squashing hidden uplinks, and hunting snipers/swarms.
If you get into a fight as a scout that doesn't involve you killing someone before they know what's going on, you're doing it wrong.
Would be interested to know what your idea of doing it right is? You appear to imply our descriptions of encounters in this thread is doing it wrong....what's the right way?
ToRgUe77 wrote:if you're 1v1 an assault head on you're doing it wrong and should just give up. scouts aren't supposed to be able to take out assaults head on,that's why they are fast and sneaky. scouts are meant to out play they're foes not tank through damage.
Another one that thinks this suggestion is advocating frontal assaults as a viable style for scouts. What leads you to believe that is what is being suggested here? I'm genuinely interested because you are *at least* the third person to think this. |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2178
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Posted - 2015.04.18 20:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:OR
Scouts should be based on doing actual Scout work, and EWAR. It's great to see people moving faster. I just wish the game supported this kind of movement more. I must've missed the part where Rattati reversed Scout EWAR nerfs, removed Falloff, removed team share from Active Scanners, replaced the GalLogi bonus, and added Recon Assist WP for Scout Passive Scans. When did all that happen? You're stating scanning changes, I said EWAR. If not scanning, what exactly do you mean by Scout work and EWAR? Do you not know what a scout is, and what EWAR is?
Blubby hell dude - just answer the question. This sort of retort is silly. I don't know the answer to your question either. Talk straight. |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2191
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Posted - 2015.04.19 22:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
VALCORE72 wrote:scouts had 6 months of bull sht lol there good right where there at .
wow. You think classes should take it in turns to be OP? Never heard a worse argument against a balance proposal. Thank goodness you're not running things. |
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