For realsies?

Are you being serious? I have lots of math for you if so:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zVbDLXDU5gpKjx1YmE9ODVYHxlE40vhNz-L7gBTcY4Y/edit

This has been the case since December.

NO MATH! I YIELD!

I think the only assault with too much mobility is the minmatar, and that mobility nerf could be accomplished by nerfing its stam gain (and buffing amarr scout base speeds)

Or nerf Assaults.

The imbalance is plain as day from my POV; the tougher the fight, the more obvious the imbalance. I'm willing to bet that kill/spawn efficiency data is mirroring usage data.

It shouldn't take much. Dialing back Assault mobility would be a great start, and might just do the trick.

Or nerf Assaults.

The imbalance is plain as day from my POV; the tougher the fight, the more obvious the imbalance. I'm willing to bet that kill/spawn efficiency data is mirroring usage data.

It shouldn't take much. Dialing back Assault mobility would be a great start, and might just do the trick.

Scouts were never supposed to be the end-all-be-all

OK, without maths ...

Medframe equips 1 complex precision enhancer.
If he's an Assault, he now scans at 16dB out to 6 meters.
If he's a Logi, he now scans at 16dB out to 8 meters.

Say you're a Scout, and you want to backstab this guy without blipping on his and his entire squad's TacNet ...

CA Scout - Impossible
MN Scout - Impossible
AM Scout - Needs 4 complex damps
GA Scout - Needs 3 complex damps

A scout is not supposed to win a 1v1 head on. I usually to always win a 1v1 scout situation when taken head on in my Assualt Gk.0 suit. This is balanced correctly.

[...]

Stop attacking from the front because you're supposed to be a scout.

I say no to buffing scouts. I honestly feel that most Scout users are not correctly playing the 'scout' role ... Scout definition: a soldier or other person sent out ahead of a main force so as to gather information about the enemy's position, strength, or movements.

A scout is not supposed to win a 1v1 head on. I usually to always win a 1v1 scout situation when taken head on in my Assualt Gk.0 suit. This is balanced correctly.

Is it impossible? No, just takes practice just like anything else. I get killed by scouts all the time. Normally, I always die to scouts because ain't no one got good aim. Scouts are doing just fine. Stop attacking from the front because you're supposed to be a scout.

I don't think scouts need a buff. I think you should run with some frequent PC Scout players.

Hahahahaha.

No. Assaults are supposed to be the combat front line.

Sentinels and scouts are support units.

Get used to the idea.

Passive scans with scouts were big. I hated the eWar nerf due to that

Scouts are fine(-ish).

But I'll agree on the HP vs. Movement Speed bit,
Assaults could stand to be slightly slower,
Commandos could do with a slot more or a bit more HP,
and Logistics could have a bit higher movement speed.

Never again. We all remember post-1.8 when Assault Suits pretty much died out.

There is no way in which an Assault Suit can be OP in its role. That's like saying your Scout suit is OP because my Assault Suit can't get scans as good as your's or fit a cloak easily.

The MN Assault is no doubt the worst offender. MN Assault speed aside, the class as a whole is moving too fast.

If an Assault is packing more HP than a Commando, why is he still moving so much faster than a Commando?
If an Assault is running straight biotics and out-sprinting Scouts, why is doing so with > 2x the HP of a Scout?

Assaults are simultaneously attaining High HP and High Mobility. There should be more of a tradeoff. Not just for MN Assaults. For all Assaults. For everyone. Uparmored Scouts included. Be fast or be tanked. Not both. HP and Mobility should be inversely related.

Current
Max HP: Heavy > Assault > Commando > Logi > Scout
Mobility: Heavy < Commando < Logi < Assault < Scout

Suggested
Max HP: Heavy > Commando > Assault > Logi > Scout
Mobility: Heavy < Commando < Assault < Logi < Scout

How To
* Add a Low Slot to Commandos (all races, all tiers)
* Swap Logi and Assault base movement speeds
* Slightly increase mobility penalties for vanilla and reactive plates
* Add slight mobility penalties to ferroscale
* Amplify plate penalties when worn by Light Frames
* Reduce plate penalties when worn by Heavy Frames

---

Back to your point, can't speak to Stamina, but I believe MN Assault base movement was entered in error and should be reduced from 5.30 to 5.20. Here are the numbers.

Anyway bottom line: I agree with addressing the mobility imbalance before anything else. The way that is set up feels instinctively wrong. Inverse HP <--> Mobility feels instinctively right. Apart from different class baselines, class is irrelevant. That HP module just added %age mobility penalty.

... to clarify I'd like to see assaults generally hitting around 600-800 hp, which I think would end up being perfectly fine, scouts should be 300-500, commandos 700-900 or so, heavies 1100-1300 or so. I think the only one that doesnt fit into these numbers are assaults or bricked scouts (which would also be disallowed by diminishing returns and are ineffective anyway), so hurrah?

I'd add Logis in there somewhere between Scouts and Assaults, perhaps 400-600 range. The scale makes sense to me, so long as 800HP guys aren't running around at comparable speeds as the 300HP guys. In other words, as HP inclines along the scale Mobility should decline.

Increasing plate penalties/drawbacks might work, but we'd have to be careful not to upset intra-class racial balance, overpenalize heavy frames, or underpenalize Light Frames (no one wants another round of Assault Lite). I think it'd be safer to first swap Assault and Logi speeds, then tune HP modules should additional tuning be warranted.

I dont think logis belong in the speed>hp continuum, and to a lesser extent commandos dont really fit directly into it either. Reason being they are balanced by other factors. Commandos (should) have a significant damage advantage over other classes when using light weapons, and Logis have massive force multipliers when using equipment effectively. Both of these factors push them outside a raw hp vs. speed scale.

In addition scouts see kind of the same effect, since their real advantage is dampening and scanning, not necessarily speed. In fact if we're talking about raw hp/speed/killing power, assaults clearly dominate scouts across the board, since you can fit x2 kincats on any assault suit, have the same number of modules remaining as a scout has base, and still have significantly higher base HP, so scouts dont really belong either. This is why I dont like the hp v. speed scale, because while I agree some classes might need to be toned up or down, I dont agree that it should be a uniform rule across all classes.

Logis are fine as is. They dont need speed buffs.

Commandos are **** right now. Giving them more speed isnt going to fix it.

Scouts are... I dont know, they might actually need another module slot or something. But just giving them more speed or more hp or nerfing assault speed or hp isnt going to make them compete with assaults in an interesting way (i.e. not competing directly, but having a niche to excel in anyway).

Mr Breakin Stuff, I usually look at your posts and think they are objective and add to the debate, but I can't fathom where you are getting the idea that what is being advocated here is to put scouts on the combat front line. As I said to the other guy earlier, if you read and understood the argument and what is being advocated for, you would see it is *not* to make scouts good at frontal assaulting.

But the fact remains, the assault is meant to be main-line infantry. Saying that it should not be a popular option is not only hilarious, but ludicrous.

I've never claimed that Assaults should be less popular than other classes. Most players play the role of slayer, and Assaults should be the go-to slayer suit. It is natural that their usage rates outweigh those of other classes.

What isn't natural is 800HP units moving at 9 m/s.

If they could cloak, I'd agree with you. But given the interaction I described, I'm glad that scouts cannot trivially prey upon the assault class anymore.

This was a good change.

Way off topic....

Nothi

Nova knife winner?

I was under the impression it was Mr Mustard that won

Therefore.............

ARE YOU THE MYTHICAL UNICORN KNOWN AS MR MUSTARD?