DUST Search - [Suggesting] Kindly Buff Scouts

True Adamance wrote:

One Eyed King wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

Scan Stuff

Logis out-support all else
Assaults out-slay all else
Heavies out-tank all else

Do Scouts out-scan all else?

Inner Rings are all more or less created equal; run a precision enhancer or two, and spot everything that gets within 5 or so meters. Outer Rings are all more or less created equal; if a unit makes any effort to dampen, that unit will not be picked up in Outer Rings. So is the Middle Ring that sets the Scout apart from the pack? I'd argue a single Active Scanner scanner out-recons any recon Scout. Enter the GalLogi, and there is truly no comparison.

If scans are intended to set Scouts apart, then I believe scans need to be overhauled.

You don't have to be the best at something to get WP and contribute.

I'd dispute the out slay all else. Assault players are your bro's who don't really have the best of anything, just are close to everything, at least scouts have visual cloaking, very potent biotic modules, and adaptability over most other classes.

Of those things you mentioned towards the end, Assaults can use just as well, if not in many cases better, with the exception of the cloak. Which in many cases is highly visible, and given the nature of the cloak delay, becomes an overly significant draw back (The delay of switch is actually something like 3 seconds, with a decloak delay of a couple seconds, so that you are essentially visible for 1 second before being able to fire. If you are spotted while cloaked, you essentially have a 3 second delay before being able to defend yourself, all while having a fraction of the HP).

This game heavily rewards HP more than EWAR in its current state.

Every suit should have a role, and Scouts really don't anymore. We can neither beat all scans, nor out scan. We can't stealthily engage in CQC, nor do we have the HP to bother ambushing mercs at range. Everything we can do that is special, Assaults can do well enough that when adding their other advantages, diminishes the strategic incentives for using a Scout suit instead.

Hmmmm I suppose given your role as a scout my voice means comparatively little however I have to point out that the scanning thing I think is a little over played on your part.

Yeah I get the frustration of not being able to avoid all scans when your role is stealth however in this game there must be some kind of scanner that can reveal you. There is not suit that deserves TACNET invisibility at all times under all circumstances. However I somewhat understand you dilemma, a fair few....not a lot of people have skilled permascanning Gal Scout to counter top tier scout invisibility, kind of like how everyone and their mother in this game has Wyrkomi's (and they aren't as soft as most people make them to be).

I don't really want to complain though because without them though since if they didn't have them I would have an ungodly advantage over most players.

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Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8803	Posted - 2015.04.16 21:49:00 - [1] - Quote Or nerf Assaults. The imbalance is plain as day from my POV; the tougher the fight, the more obvious the imbalance. I can only imagine that kill/spawn efficiency data is showing same as market data. It shouldn't take much. Dialing back Assault mobility will probably do the trick. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 329	Posted - 2015.04.16 22:10:00 - [2] - Quote Assault assaulting? Head on 1v1? Hard fight for the lighter guy? Idk man... Feels about right tbh. ....... Cal assault gets a nerf in that too... Yknow how sad it'll be? :(( The ADS tourney! Join today!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8806	Posted - 2015.04.16 22:36:00 - [3] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Assault assaulting? Assaults can be the very best at their performing role without being OP, just like HMG Heavies. Shamarskii Simon wrote: Head on 1v1? Hard fight for the lighter guy? I've been at this for awhile, but if you want to tell me I'm doing it wrong, I won't try to persuade you otherwise. Shamarskii Simon wrote: Idk man... Feels about right tbh. If Assault kill/spawn efficiency looks anything like usage rates, something's going to have to give. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Gyn Wallace Ready to Play 320	Posted - 2015.04.16 22:46:00 - [4] - Quote Hey! quit trying to jump to the front of the queue! -A logi in the "Getting buffed 'Soon' line." The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8806	Posted - 2015.04.16 22:49:00 - [5] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: Hey! quit trying to jump to the front of the queue! -A logi in the "Getting buffed 'Soon' line." Agreed. Buffing Scouts isn't the optimal path. Gently nerfing Assaults would be more efficient. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Godin Thekiller Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 3095	Posted - 2015.04.16 23:05:00 - [6] - Quote OR Scouts should be based on doing actual Scout work, and EWAR. It's great to see people moving faster. I just wish the game supported this kind of movement more. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8807	Posted - 2015.04.16 23:14:00 - [7] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: OR Scouts should be based on doing actual Scout work, and EWAR. It's great to see people moving faster. I just wish the game supported this kind of movement more. I must've missed the part where Rattati reversed Scout EWAR nerfs, removed Falloff, removed team share from Active Scanners, replaced the GalLogi bonus, and added Recon Assist WP for Scout Passive Scans. When did all that happen? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5887	Posted - 2015.04.16 23:16:00 - [8] - Quote Hmmmm I dunno. While this is entirely anecdotal, I find myself being killed by Scouts far more often than I do Assaults. The issue I seem to be encountering the most is wiggle wiggle strafing fits, namely scouts and Min Assaults. Other assaults seem to be fairly balanced against what I typically use which is the Commando. They're a bit on the strong side vs Commando, but that's more of a commando problem than Assault. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8810	Posted - 2015.04.16 23:36:00 - [9] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Hmmmm I dunno. While this is entirely anecdotal, I find myself being killed by Scouts far more often than I do Assaults. The issue I seem to be encountering the most is wiggle wiggle strafing fits, namely scouts and Min Assaults. Other assaults seem to be fairly balanced against what I typically use which is the Commando. They're a bit on the strong side vs Commando, but that's more of a commando problem than Assault. o/ Pokey There's an entirely different dynamic at play in Scout v Commando and Scout v Assault. I'd argue that Commandos are UP in that their HP levels do not appropriately reflect their significant mobility limitations and EWAR ineptitude. Assaults, on the other hand, are often tankier than Commandos, move at substantially higher speeds and need only fit one precision enhancer to have shot at detecting and parrying a sneak attack before it even happens. I can count on one hand the number of times per day a good Commando successfully parries my shotgun flank attack. By contrast, taking out a good Assault player from behind is a toss up. Even when I'm successful, my position has been compromised to all of his squadmates. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5890	Posted - 2015.04.16 23:53:00 - [10] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Hmmmm I dunno. While this is entirely anecdotal, I find myself being killed by Scouts far more often than I do Assaults. The issue I seem to be encountering the most is wiggle wiggle strafing fits, namely scouts and Min Assaults. Other assaults seem to be fairly balanced against what I typically use which is the Commando. They're a bit on the strong side vs Commando, but that's more of a commando problem than Assault. o/ Pokey There's an entirely different dynamic at play in Scout v Commando and Scout v Assault. I'd argue that Commandos are UP in that their HP levels do not appropriately reflect their significant mobility limitations and EWAR ineptitude. Assaults, on the other hand, are often tankier than Commandos, move at substantially higher speeds and need only fit one precision enhancer to have shot at detecting and parrying any sneak attack before it even happens. I can count on one hand the number of times per day a good Commando successfully parries my shotgun flank attack. Taking out a decent Assault from behind is a toss up; against good players, I get turned on and smashed as often as I don't. Even when I'm successful, the engagements are almost always protracted and my position is compromised to his squadmates. I'm not saying that killing from behind should be easy; I'm saying that Assaults have too much going for them right now. I strongly suspect that their Kill/Spawn efficiency will back up my observations. If I'm right, I'd recommend addressing the mobility factor first. HP and Speed must share an inverse relationship; when they don't, we get FoTM. See MN Assault. Agreed, Commandos need some work so my personal experience is of course skewed by running a UP suit. I suppose the point I was getting at is that I tend to die more often from a scout than I do an assault, mostly due to struggling to deal with strafing speed. It's actually what has driven me to use the Mass Driver on the Minmmando because its the most effective counter to high strafe fits. I have heard that Rattati is working on some grand HP to Mobility ratio which will hopefully address some of the concerns I think we both have. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net

Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 784	Posted - 2015.04.17 00:01:00 - [11] - Quote As an Amarr assault I die to scouts more than any other class. Also anecdotal -- but no less true.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8811	Posted - 2015.04.17 00:03:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I have heard that Rattati is working on some grand HP to Mobility ratio which will hopefully address some of the concerns I think we both have. CCP Rattati wrote: I want each frame to have mass, each module to have mass, and speed is dynamically related to mass. base speed = 6 at zero mass Scout = 100 (could substitute mass for hp) base speed 100/X = 5.2 plate = 10 1 plate = 10% speed reduction 5 plates = 50% reduction new speed = base speed * penalty Sentinel = 500 base speed = 500/X = 4.5 plate = 10 1 plate = 2% speed reduction 5 plates = 10% reduction new speed = base speed * penalty penalty wouldn't have to be linear I already have some calculations and ideas without a true encumbrance model, I can share that Posted: 2014.12.03 05:31 I don't know that such a model would be well received. I imagine there are a great number of players who enjoy moving fast while pushing 800HP. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8811	Posted - 2015.04.17 00:07:00 - [13] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: As an Amarr assault I die to scouts more than any other class. Also anecdotal -- but no less true. I ran AM Assault for a 'bit last month. To be frank, you've got no excuse if you're dying to Scouts in that suit. Run a precision enhancer, grab a vanilla scrambler rifle and pay attention. With balance as it is today, you should be killing the Scouts who get the drop on you 2x to 3x more often than they kill you. If you aren't keen on watching your TacNet, MyoFibs come in handy as well. Get shotgunned in the back. Hop away. Inst-melt the Scout. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Archduke Ferd1nand Nos Nothi 356	Posted - 2015.04.17 00:27:00 - [14] - Quote Undoing the cloak nerfs would put them in perfect balance IMO. Or perfect imbalance, which is optimal. BRB, looking for socks PSN: tommygunboy2080 I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8816	Posted - 2015.04.17 00:31:00 - [15] - Quote Archduke Ferd1nand wrote: Undoing the cloak nerfs would put them in perfect balance IMO. Which Cloak Nerfs? * Reduced Profile Bonus * Reduced Duration * Decloak Delay * Cloak Blind Fire-from-cloak was a serious problem. TacNet immune, 600+ HP GalScouts were too. In my opinion, Mass:Movement tradeoffs would make for a better fix (meaning, nerf Assault mobility). Returning Scouts to an OP state won't magically balance Assaults; there are other units to consider. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Archduke Ferd1nand Nos Nothi 359	Posted - 2015.04.17 00:33:00 - [16] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Archduke Ferd1nand wrote: Undoing the cloak nerfs would put them in perfect balance IMO. Which Cloak Nerfs? * Reduced Profile Bonus * Reduced Duration * Decloak Delay * Cloak Blind Fire-from-cloak was a serious problem. In my opinion, Mass:Movement tradeoffs would make for a better fix. Fire from cloak was a serious problem when people could be 1 shotted. I was thinking all of those TBH other than perhaps duration. Current duration is fine as is IMO. But I also haven't run a cloak in ages...damn things hurt more than help, esp. with the fire delay. You're a free goddamn kill. EDIT:If switch was reduced a lot, and profile bonus buffed, I think that would be a great start. BRB, looking for socks PSN: tommygunboy2080 I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
Godin Thekiller Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 3095	Posted - 2015.04.17 00:38:00 - [17] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: OR Scouts should be based on doing actual Scout work, and EWAR. It's great to see people moving faster. I just wish the game supported this kind of movement more. I must've missed the part where Rattati reversed Scout EWAR nerfs, removed Falloff, removed team share from Active Scanners, replaced the GalLogi bonus, and added Recon Assist WP for Scout Passive Scans. When did all that happen? You're stating scanning changes, I said EWAR. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8816	Posted - 2015.04.17 00:46:00 - [18] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: OR Scouts should be based on doing actual Scout work, and EWAR. It's great to see people moving faster. I just wish the game supported this kind of movement more. I must've missed the part where Rattati reversed Scout EWAR nerfs, removed Falloff, removed team share from Active Scanners, replaced the GalLogi bonus, and added Recon Assist WP for Scout Passive Scans. When did all that happen? You're stating scanning changes, I said EWAR. If not scanning, what exactly do you mean by Scout work and EWAR? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 2054	Posted - 2015.04.17 01:46:00 - [19] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Assault assaulting? Head on 1v1? Hard fight for the lighter guy? Idk man... Feels about right tbh. ....... Cal assault gets a nerf in that too... Yknow how sad it'll be? :(( Oh look, assaults are for assaulting right? Therefore assaults should be THE best beast mode assault machine to a point nobody comes even close. Okay. Scouts are for Scouting I guess? Explain me one thing, how does a scout get WP for scouting? Also, Assault suits are almost equal to scouts in EWAR capabilities while retaining twice as much HP. Seems like the only thing scouts have is a cloak which is also useless AF because snipers can get headshots on cloaked scouts from hundreds of meters away. "Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18301	Posted - 2015.04.17 02:05:00 - [20] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: Assault assaulting? Head on 1v1? Hard fight for the lighter guy? Idk man... Feels about right tbh. ....... Cal assault gets a nerf in that too... Yknow how sad it'll be? :(( Oh look, assaults are for assaulting right? Therefore assaults should be THE best beast mode assault machine to a point nobody comes even close. Okay. Scouts are for Scouting I guess? Explain me one thing, how does a scout get WP for scouting? Also, Assault suits are almost equal to scouts in EWAR capabilities while retaining twice as much HP. Seems like the only thing scouts have is a cloak which is also useless AF because snipers can get headshots on cloaked scouts from hundreds of meters away. Scan Stuff, Hack Stuff, Knife the occasional guy, set traps, yell **** at the assault to get their arses in gear and steal their kills. Pretty much how I'd do it. GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥ -The Nameless City

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8819	Posted - 2015.04.17 02:13:00 - [21] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Scan Stuff Assaults out-slay all else. Heavies out-tank all else. Logis out-support all else. Do Scouts out-scan all else? Inner Rings are all more or less created equal; run a precision enhancer or two, and spot anything and everything that gets within 5 or so meters of you. Similarly, Outer Rings are all more or less created equal; if a unit makes any effort to dampen, that unit will not be picked up by your Outer Rings. So it must be the Middle Ring that sets the Scout apart from the pack. I'd argue a single Active Scanner scanner can provide higher quality recon than any Recon Scout's Middle Ring. Enter the GalLogi, and there is truly no comparison. If scans are intended to set Scouts apart, then scans need to be overhauled. And in that overhaul, we must work in WP for passive recon. And after the overhaul, "role bleed" will remain in that anything a Recon Scout can do, a GalLogi can do far better. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18303	Posted - 2015.04.17 02:19:00 - [22] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: True Adamance wrote: Scan Stuff Logis out-support all else Assaults out-slay all else Heavies out-tank all else Do Scouts out-scan all else? Inner Rings are all more or less created equal; run a precision enhancer or two, and spot everything that gets within 5 or so meters. Outer Rings are all more or less created equal; if a unit makes any effort to dampen, that unit will not be picked up in Outer Rings. So is the Middle Ring that sets the Scout apart from the pack? I'd argue a single Active Scanner scanner out-recons any recon Scout. Enter the GalLogi, and there is truly no comparison. If scans are intended to set Scouts apart, then I believe scans need to be overhauled. You don't have to be the best at something to get WP and contribute. I'd dispute the out slay all else. Assault players are your bro's who don't really have the best of anything, just are close to everything, at least scouts have visual cloaking, very potent biotic modules, and adaptability over most other classes. GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥ -The Nameless City
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8819	Posted - 2015.04.17 02:24:00 - [23] - Quote True Adamance wrote: You don't have to be the best at something to get WP and contribute. I'd dispute the out slay all else. Assault players are your bro's who don't really have the best of anything, just are close to everything, at least scouts have visual cloaking, very potent biotic modules, and adaptability over most other classes. I agree with you in that cloaking is the one and only thing that sets Scouts apart. Most Newbro Scouts can't fit it. Most veteran Scouts won't run it. There's work to be done there as well. So many little things to tune to bring these units up-to-speed with Assaults. And the same goes for Logis and Commandos. We could tune lots and lots of things, or we could Assault Mobility. Why be inefficient? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 9475	Posted - 2015.04.17 02:29:00 - [24] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: True Adamance wrote: Scan Stuff Logis out-support all else Assaults out-slay all else Heavies out-tank all else Do Scouts out-scan all else? Inner Rings are all more or less created equal; run a precision enhancer or two, and spot everything that gets within 5 or so meters. Outer Rings are all more or less created equal; if a unit makes any effort to dampen, that unit will not be picked up in Outer Rings. So is the Middle Ring that sets the Scout apart from the pack? I'd argue a single Active Scanner scanner out-recons any recon Scout. Enter the GalLogi, and there is truly no comparison. If scans are intended to set Scouts apart, then I believe scans need to be overhauled. You don't have to be the best at something to get WP and contribute. I'd dispute the out slay all else. Assault players are your bro's who don't really have the best of anything, just are close to everything, at least scouts have visual cloaking, very potent biotic modules, and adaptability over most other classes. Of those things you mentioned towards the end, Assaults can use just as well, if not in many cases better, with the exception of the cloak. Which in many cases is highly visible, and given the nature of the cloak delay, becomes an overly significant draw back (The delay of switch is actually something like 3 seconds, with a decloak delay of a couple seconds, so that you are essentially visible for 1 second before being able to fire. If you are spotted while cloaked, you essentially have a 3 second delay before being able to defend yourself, all while having a fraction of the HP). This game heavily rewards HP more than EWAR in its current state. Every suit should have a role, and Scouts really don't anymore. We can neither beat all scans, nor out scan. We can't stealthily engage in CQC, nor do we have the HP to bother ambushing mercs at range. Everything we can do that is special, Assaults can do well enough that when adding their other advantages, diminishes the strategic incentives for using a Scout suit instead. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8819	Posted - 2015.04.17 02:44:00 - [25] - Quote @ OEK I could be wrong, but I don't think that Passive Scans or Recon Scouts are going make a comeback. I suspect that today's Scouts are supposed to be the squishy, sneaky, and highly mobile flank attack class. The one and only reason we aren't excelling in this capacity is Assault Mobility. Even if Falloff were to remain unchanged, if these High HP units suddenly began to move like other High HP units, we could get our licks in and get the heck out quickly enough to be competitively viable. I don't think that Scouts need to be overhauled to be unique or competitive. I suspect that all we need to do is widen the speed gap; there's a good chance that one change will fix Assault v Scout balance. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18308	Posted - 2015.04.17 04:04:00 - [26] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: True Adamance wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: True Adamance wrote: Scan Stuff Logis out-support all else Assaults out-slay all else Heavies out-tank all else Do Scouts out-scan all else? Inner Rings are all more or less created equal; run a precision enhancer or two, and spot everything that gets within 5 or so meters. Outer Rings are all more or less created equal; if a unit makes any effort to dampen, that unit will not be picked up in Outer Rings. So is the Middle Ring that sets the Scout apart from the pack? I'd argue a single Active Scanner scanner out-recons any recon Scout. Enter the GalLogi, and there is truly no comparison. If scans are intended to set Scouts apart, then I believe scans need to be overhauled. You don't have to be the best at something to get WP and contribute. I'd dispute the out slay all else. Assault players are your bro's who don't really have the best of anything, just are close to everything, at least scouts have visual cloaking, very potent biotic modules, and adaptability over most other classes. Of those things you mentioned towards the end, Assaults can use just as well, if not in many cases better, with the exception of the cloak. Which in many cases is highly visible, and given the nature of the cloak delay, becomes an overly significant draw back (The delay of switch is actually something like 3 seconds, with a decloak delay of a couple seconds, so that you are essentially visible for 1 second before being able to fire. If you are spotted while cloaked, you essentially have a 3 second delay before being able to defend yourself, all while having a fraction of the HP). This game heavily rewards HP more than EWAR in its current state. Every suit should have a role, and Scouts really don't anymore. We can neither beat all scans, nor out scan. We can't stealthily engage in CQC, nor do we have the HP to bother ambushing mercs at range. Everything we can do that is special, Assaults can do well enough that when adding their other advantages, diminishes the strategic incentives for using a Scout suit instead. Hmmmm I suppose given your role as a scout my voice means comparatively little however I have to point out that the scanning thing I think is a little over played on your part. Yeah I get the frustration of not being able to avoid all scans when your role is stealth however in this game there must be some kind of scanner that can reveal you. There is not suit that deserves TACNET invisibility at all times under all circumstances. However I somewhat understand you dilemma, a fair few....not a lot of people have skilled permascanning Gal Scout to counter top tier scout invisibility, kind of like how everyone and their mother in this game has Wyrkomi's (and they aren't as soft as most people make them to be). I don't really want to complain though because without them though since if they didn't have them I would have an ungodly advantage over most players. GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥ -The Nameless City
The Dark Cloud The Rainbow Effect 4452	Posted - 2015.04.17 04:06:00 - [27] - Quote No. im allready getting more then enough times shotgunned in the back. Do not want to make the scout population higher then it allready is. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 614	Posted - 2015.04.17 04:19:00 - [28] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Or nerf Assaults. The imbalance is plain as day from my POV; the tougher the fight, the more obvious the imbalance. I can only imagine that kill/spawn efficiency data is mirroring usage data. It shouldn't take much. Dialing back Assault mobility would be a great start, and might just do the trick. I think the only assault with too much mobility is the minmatar, and that mobility nerf could be accomplished by nerfing its stam gain (and buffing amarr scout base speeds)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8822	Posted - 2015.04.17 04:25:00 - [29] - Quote True Adamance wrote: One Eyed King wrote: True Adamance wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: True Adamance wrote: Scan Stuff Logis out-support all else Assaults out-slay all else Heavies out-tank all else Do Scouts out-scan all else? Inner Rings are all more or less created equal; run a precision enhancer or two, and spot everything that gets within 5 or so meters. Outer Rings are all more or less created equal; if a unit makes any effort to dampen, that unit will not be picked up in Outer Rings. So is the Middle Ring that sets the Scout apart from the pack? I'd argue a single Active Scanner scanner out-recons any recon Scout. Enter the GalLogi, and there is truly no comparison. If scans are intended to set Scouts apart, then I believe scans need to be overhauled. You don't have to be the best at something to get WP and contribute. I'd dispute the out slay all else. Assault players are your bro's who don't really have the best of anything, just are close to everything, at least scouts have visual cloaking, very potent biotic modules, and adaptability over most other classes. Of those things you mentioned towards the end, Assaults can use just as well, if not in many cases better, with the exception of the cloak. Which in many cases is highly visible, and given the nature of the cloak delay, becomes an overly significant draw back (The delay of switch is actually something like 3 seconds, with a decloak delay of a couple seconds, so that you are essentially visible for 1 second before being able to fire. If you are spotted while cloaked, you essentially have a 3 second delay before being able to defend yourself, all while having a fraction of the HP). This game heavily rewards HP more than EWAR in its current state. Every suit should have a role, and Scouts really don't anymore. We can neither beat all scans, nor out scan. We can't stealthily engage in CQC, nor do we have the HP to bother ambushing mercs at range. Everything we can do that is special, Assaults can do well enough that when adding their other advantages, diminishes the strategic incentives for using a Scout suit instead. Hmmmm I suppose given your role as a scout my voice means comparatively little however I have to point out that the scanning thing I think is a little over played on your part. Yeah I get the frustration of not being able to avoid all scans when your role is stealth however in this game there must be some kind of scanner that can reveal you. There is not suit that deserves TACNET invisibility at all times under all circumstances. However I somewhat understand you dilemma, a fair few....not a lot of people have skilled permascanning Gal Scout to counter top tier scout invisibility, kind of like how everyone and their mother in this game has Wyrkomi's (and they aren't as soft as most people make them to be). I don't really want to complain though because without them though since if they didn't have them I would have an ungodly advantage over most players. This reads as though you aren't up-to-date with current in-game mechanics. Avoiding detection isn't limited to dodging GalLogi scans. Any MedFrame who runs just one precision enhancer will scan even the most heavily dampened Scout before that Scout gets within optimal shotgun or knifing. That intel is relayed to all squadmates; even if the medframe dies, the Scout's position was still compromised. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18311	Posted - 2015.04.17 04:27:00 - [30] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: This reads as though you aren't up-to-date with current in-game mechanics. Avoiding detection isn't limited to dodging GalLogi scans. Any MedFrame who runs just one precision enhancer will scan even the most heavily dampened Scout before that Scout gets within optimal shotgun or knifing. That intel is relayed to all squadmates; even if the medframe dies, the Scout's position was still compromised. For realsies? GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥ -The Nameless City



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"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.