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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
xPainx Pain Pendejitos Smart Deploy 25	Posted - 2015.04.09 05:31:00 - [1] - Quote Pc is broken. A good idea is to have only players from ally corps and not those from other places or corp only in battles. Some have lots of good players but in other corps and their corp alone is not good enough to be in a pc. You can see 3 men corps with districts but defend and atack with players from multiple corps. Those who do not risk have already lost..
Apocalyptic Destroyer L.O.T.I.S. 404	Posted - 2015.04.09 05:42:00 - [2] - Quote You seem lost True Amarr In Disguise Pain is Weakness Leaving the Body. In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.
VAHZZ 1257	Posted - 2015.04.09 05:48:00 - [3] - Quote I feel insulted somehow... *BRUH*
xPainx Pain Pendejitos Smart Deploy 25	Posted - 2015.04.09 05:56:00 - [4] - Quote No my friend you lost me. Ex... I have a district and you attack with 3 of your players and the rest from OH nyan San or take your pick. We field our team with corp members only and or ally corps. You play with the best veteran players and we have mostly ok and some ok members. Who wins? Experience. Things like this make small corps and people not want to play. Say you have a district and I come with my ringers from other corps and you only have your peeps to fight. I flip your little place and what do you think? Wtf? I think this would some how make pc better for all. Those who do not risk have already lost..
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5736	Posted - 2015.04.09 06:13:00 - [5] - Quote As Immortal Mercenaries, doesn't it make sense that a corporation would be able to hire mercenaries to do mercenary work? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
7th Son 7 BLITZKRIEG7 727	Posted - 2015.04.09 06:21:00 - [6] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: As Immortal Mercenaries, doesn't it make sense that a corporation would be able to hire mercenaries to do mercenary work? I agree, however it lacks honor imo, I know I know......... we're mercs I get it Always mystify, mislead and surprise the enemy if possible........--- Stonewall Jackson
Ghosts Chance Intara Direct Action Caldari State 3282	Posted - 2015.04.09 07:47:00 - [7] - Quote this has always been the case when i played with FA i only ever faught against nyian san and ancient exhiles no matter who actually owned the district involved. Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Otrera Goddess Nos Nothi 244	Posted - 2015.04.09 08:01:00 - [8] - Quote Is this a PC Q.Q. thread? Runs to get bucket
LT SHANKS You In The Nutz 5634	Posted - 2015.04.09 08:06:00 - [9] - Quote OP, I have to apologize to you. I was always under the impression that everyone from your corp could not speak English... I don't know why I thought that, but I did. Sorry.
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4335	Posted - 2015.04.09 08:55:00 - [10] - Quote Complain about ringers? I have to agree, if we want a hardcore experience, ringers from corp outside the alliance should not be allowed in PC. Quit the BS like my corp does not have enough players and i'm not in a alliance. If you don't have at least 16 player in alliance (not corp), then you should not be allowed to hold district. If you are in the same alliance, then you should not be able to attack districts of corps within your alliance. District exchange for tactical reason should be allowed (within alliance) without the need to fight for that district. Ringers are the second major factor (framerate/lag is the first) that keeps people aways from PC. Always blame solar storms if something doesn't work as expected

DarK KNigHT007 Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 26	Posted - 2015.04.09 10:39:00 - [11] - Quote ^^^ He got a point. no corp should be able to take players outside from alliances for battles The MosT ImportanT ThinG U NeeD IS LUCK
RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2180	Posted - 2015.04.09 11:57:00 - [12] - Quote There should be some risk involved to using ringers. I dunno, maybe give the ringers the opportunity to pirate winnings. Giving them control of a slider that allows them to take an additional % of the winnings and spoils. This way your ringers could wind up robbing you. It would be blind, so you wouldn't know what ringer took what percentage, have it max out at 20% off the top of the teams earnings, that way a group of four ringers could steal 80% of the earnings, yet they would be outed as pirates, but 2 of them could take 40% and the corp that hired them would have to decide who the pirate was. Have alliance members on the same deal, but with much lower percentages, maxing out at 5%. So 10 ringers from alliance could wipe out 50% of the earnings for the corp members. This **** is so full of holes though, and I'm too tired. Anyway thought I'd offer an idea. Unleash the BIMBOBOT!
jenza aranda BetaMax. 3583	Posted - 2015.04.09 12:02:00 - [13] - Quote Back when i was in talks with CCP on how to handle FW I came up with a really nice idea of how it could work, (basically eve players investing in a system, either directly by paying isk or through plexing) which would add to the value of fighting for x empire in y system making it more attractive to dusties to go for that side. (this is a very simplified version of my idea) unfortunately in the end they went for whatever it is now. EDIT: the post is somewhere in the CPM CCP only forum which i no longer have access to. Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 2372	Posted - 2015.04.09 12:03:00 - [14] - Quote Otrera Goddess wrote: Is this a PC Q.Q. thread? Runs to get bucket it is i had to read it twice to be sure. quick someone find Dust User and tell him theres a QQ ringers post going down in GD. CBM. KEQ diplomat. lolceasefire

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 20126	Posted - 2015.04.09 12:14:00 - [15] - Quote After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 2372	Posted - 2015.04.09 12:18:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. lol theres only like 50 players playing PC right now anyways. CBM. KEQ diplomat. lolceasefire
The KTM DuKe Dead Man's Game RUST415 80	Posted - 2015.04.09 12:20:00 - [17] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. lol theres only like 50 players playing PC right now anyways. Are you scared brah? Alt of H0riz0n Unlimit, DMG director, FOTM chaser
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4341	Posted - 2015.04.09 12:20:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. Every squad in every sport i know do not use people from other squads if one of them can't play, they just have more people ready to play. This is plain and logic Rattati, ringers should not be allowed at all, if you want to play for a certain corp, try to join at least their alliance. In the same way, if a corp wants a certain player, they should convice him/her to join at least their alliance. Always blame solar storms if something doesn't work as expected

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 20128	Posted - 2015.04.09 12:27:00 - [19] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. lol theres only like 50 players playing PC right now anyways. that PC lag is your biggest killer of the game. Maybe because they get crushed by the best 16 everytime they try? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 2373	Posted - 2015.04.09 12:28:00 - [20] - Quote The KTM DuKe wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. lol theres only like 50 players playing PC right now anyways. Are you scared brah? do ya QQ brah naaa but in all seriousness if they fix the lag many players would come back and take the game serious enuf to actually recruit train and put out 16 man corp teams. but until then will keep flipping your DMG farms and collecting your tears. and as we could just put all the ringers in one corp and call it the CBM if that would make you fell better when we flip yo flap jacks ponytail bub. CBM. KEQ diplomat. lolceasefire

RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2182	Posted - 2015.04.09 12:30:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. Well I'm in full support of the pirate angle. Partly because it adds depth and will add risk to ringer use... but mostly because I thought of it and I love space scoundrels... then I'm sad because I lack the capacity for villainy. Unleash the BIMBOBOT!
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 2373	Posted - 2015.04.09 12:37:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. lol theres only like 50 players playing PC right now anyways. that PC lag is your biggest killer of the game. Maybe because they get crushed by the best 16 everytime they try? maybe because all the PC players left after fan fest. don't bring your weak sauce meta in my house ratsuy. but ill tell you work on the lag and you will have the PC player base to start from. and yes once the player base is up then doing something about ringer will help those small corps grow. but understand its not just elite ringer teams its all so the bandwagon effect when all the vets join one corp to stomp the rest. so there are many factors CBM. KEQ diplomat. lolceasefire
The KTM DuKe Dead Man's Game RUST415 81	Posted - 2015.04.09 13:10:00 - [23] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: The KTM DuKe wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. lol theres only like 50 players playing PC right now anyways. Are you scared brah? do ya QQ brah naaa but in all seriousness if they fix the lag many players would come back and take the game serious enuf to actually recruit train and put out 16 man corp teams. but until then will keep flipping your DMG farms and collecting your tears. and as we could just put all the ringers in one corp and call it the CBM if that would make you fell better when we flip yo flap jacks ponytail bub. It s not me the one cryng about no ringers in PC, were 0.h busy on your last attack? P.s dont hide your timers from european corp bro Alt of H0riz0n Unlimit, DMG director, FOTM chaser
VALCORE72 Vengeance Unbound RUST415 273	Posted - 2015.04.09 13:14:00 - [24] - Quote yea the ringer thing has gone far eough . asian haters united lol .
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 2375	Posted - 2015.04.09 13:20:00 - [25] - Quote dam DMG crys more about stuff then my girl watching the titanic on her period. lol CBM. KEQ diplomat. lolceasefire
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4345	Posted - 2015.04.09 13:40:00 - [26] - Quote It's not crying, it's just logic, let's take soccer world cup as an example, wouldn't be strange if one player from USA break his leg and to change him, USA coach call a Nigeria player? Every game with squad does not work like this, for the simple that otherwise all the strongest player would just create a squad an beat the rest of the world. Always blame solar storms if something doesn't work as expected
Ku Shala UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE Immortals of War 1350	Posted - 2015.04.09 13:46:00 - [27] - Quote have it so if you ring on one district it takes so many hours/jumps /what ever before you can ring somewhere else that way top ringers will have to be used more strategically and one ringer team would have difficulty holding multiple districts. *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist x5)* Caldari Loyalist 22 230 780 sp in drop suit upgrades
The KTM DuKe Dead Man's Game RUST415 81	Posted - 2015.04.09 13:47:00 - [28] - Quote shaman oga wrote: It's not crying, it's just logic, let's take soccer world cup as an example, wouldn't be strange if one player from USA break his leg and to change him, USA coach call a Nigeria player? Every game with squad does not work like this, for the simple that otherwise all the strongest player would just create a squad an beat the rest of the world. A ringer can play with a broken leg, stop QQ please. Cit.QQse town Alt of H0riz0n Unlimit, DMG director, FOTM chaser
ReGnYuM Carne Con Papas 3644	Posted - 2015.04.09 13:57:00 - [29] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. Hey man, ringing is my only main source of income. How am I going to feed my kids?
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 2376	Posted - 2015.04.09 14:09:00 - [30] - Quote shaman oga wrote: It's not crying, it's just logic, let's take soccer world cup as an example, wouldn't be strange if one player from USA break his leg and to change him, USA coach call a Nigeria player? Every game with squad does not work like this, for the simple that otherwise all the strongest player would just create a squad an beat the rest of the world. your not playing soccer or rugby or teeball you are playing a mercenarie war video game called Dust514. the politics and backdoor deals and wars are what has kept people playing this laggy game with bad graphics for so long. this is a sand box game were you spend your time building your sand castle and i come over and kick it down lol. CBM. KEQ diplomat. lolceasefire

Cody Sietz Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 4467	Posted - 2015.04.09 14:17:00 - [31] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. Changing the ringer aspect kind of goes against dust's core though. Having to actually pay someone before they enter a PC battle would perhaps stifle the use of ringers and encourage the whole " Mercs that fight for the highest bidder" thing we were always meant to have. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
G Clone Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 41	Posted - 2015.04.09 14:22:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. Rat, we did try to address this in the document we shared with you recently; somewhere around page 8, subsection on Mercenaries.
Aidualc LATINOS KILLERS CORP RUST415 136	Posted - 2015.04.09 14:25:00 - [33] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. Hey man, ringing is my only main source of income. How am I going to feed my kids? With Carne con papas (Steak and potatoes) XD ... lol BTW... Rattati sir, maybe if Ringers doesn't get ISK ?... only corps - alliance members only can earn ISK in PC ?. if a Corp need ringers... they neet to be paid before the battle... the only resource they get. and only if they really need it... (pay 10 ringers 5M isk.. clone pack 50M... 100M for a PC battle ? ... only if they really need the district... -- LKC -- Tomate Pote --
Harry Bawlss Fatal Absolution 245	Posted - 2015.04.09 14:26:00 - [34] - Quote The problem isn't ringers. I will admit it just gets boring facing the same team over and over again but that's not the issue. Issue is the difference variables that are affecting the lower teir corps they are as follows ; you jump into pc thinking you should keep a district when In reality you are never guaranteed to even have one. ; you field a full team of your own players (kudos) but you won't ask for veterans help or advice in matches.. ; you must have good PR to become good contacts with players and corporations. (realisticly an alliance in this game is only a lolceasefire until your relations with alliance goes down the drain) ; lagg issues of pc is the most and biggest problem. For people who don't pc often experience this lag and instantly use that as an excuse for poor performance and unbearable gameplay. Slowly introduce new players into pc. Ask for help when needed. Don't just stay involved in your Corp or alliance only make sure you are social. Those are just the basic things. Also in pubs I come across your Corp and instantly think easy match because it is. You want to be a pc Corp show better performance even in pubs of your team work and people will see it and believe you deserve to not get instantly kicked out of pc.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5667	Posted - 2015.04.09 14:36:00 - [35] - Quote The stupidity behind the conversations and what people identify as the actual issues is precisely why I decided to stay out of those talks. That, and nobody likes to hear the truth anyway so my words typically fall on deaf ears. People ring because they don't like your system. PC is a job. Ringing allows it to be done in a casual way for people of sufficient skill level. So rather than punish ringers for hating the crap your predecessors put out, I'd recommend you fix the system itself so that people don't hate being involved with it. Usually banned for being too awesome.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 20162	Posted - 2015.04.09 15:07:00 - [36] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. Hey man, ringing is my only main source of income. How am I going to feed my kids? If ringers become scarce, good ringers go up in price? More money for you I guess "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 1840	Posted - 2015.04.09 15:11:00 - [37] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Otrera Goddess wrote: Is this a PC Q.Q. thread? Runs to get bucket it is i had to read it twice to be sure. quick someone find Dust User and tell him theres a QQ ringers post going down in GD.
Moorian Flav 323	Posted - 2015.04.09 15:33:00 - [38] - Quote I honestly liked it back when we had Corp Battles that the winning ISK went directly to the corp bank. If Corp Management will have to pay for ringers to be added to PC match (which would of course require a decent minimum ISK payment) then I would think the winning ISK should be transferred to the Corp bank to have Corp Management hand out from there. After all, when a PC team loses, it is Corp Management handing out the funds then anyway to reimburse so Corp Management might as well hand it out on the winning side too. Besides, there are too many players that haven't been CEOs or in Corp Management that think they deserve a ton of ISK just for simply being in PC. I think having the CEOs/Corp Management directly handing them their checks might make them respect their CEOs/Corp Management a little more than they do now. I don't troll; I tell the truth. I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2214	Posted - 2015.04.09 15:44:00 - [39] - Quote shaman oga wrote: It's not crying, it's just logic, let's take soccer world cup as an example, wouldn't be strange if one player from USA break his leg and to change him, USA coach call a Nigeria player? Every game with squad does not work like this, for the simple that otherwise all the strongest player would just create a squad an beat the rest of the world. Bad logic, this ain't soccer, this is an imaginary war between mercenary corporations. What do mercenaries do? They sell themselves to whoever is paying the price they ask. While I've given people sh!t for using ringers (what, your corp ain't good enough to do it on their own?), there is nothing wrong with ringers. The problem I see from the people complaining about it is that they're not good enough to beat whoever gets in the way and refuse to pay for or can't afford the people that are. Stopping ringers ain't going to help you any with that once all these ringers you can't beat form their own corp so they can start making ISK again. Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty hipster! Rated [TV-MA]
SoTa PoP Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 6436	Posted - 2015.04.09 15:48:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. lol theres only like 50 players playing PC right now anyways. that PC lag is your biggest killer of the game. Maybe because they get crushed by the best 16 everytime they try? Not PC players fault we care enough to try harder :D n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot

Slave of MORTE 360	Posted - 2015.04.09 15:50:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. lol theres only like 50 players playing PC right now anyways. that PC lag is your biggest killer of the game. Maybe because they get crushed by the best 16 everytime they try? No its the 1 frame per second ...definitely as it kills pc enjoy ability for both the old exp players and the new ones. Not saying implementing a control system to allow younger corps into pc is a bad idea just that that's not the major reason pc fails. I'm her slave because amarrians are the best in the sheets #stamina
CarlitoX Jojooojo 194	Posted - 2015.04.09 15:55:00 - [42] - Quote ... Wiggle wiggle wiggle... Amarr 4 ever. C3PO's alt
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4345	Posted - 2015.04.09 16:19:00 - [43] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Bad logic, this ain't soccer, this is an imaginary war between mercenary corporations. What do mercenaries do? They sell themselves to whoever is paying the price they ask. This is a game, soccer is only an example of a squad game, i could have used volley, basketball or every other squad sport where players are paid to play, while you are under a contract with one team you can't play for another, it's the same damn thing. I would like a NPC corp for ringers, with high tax rate, when you apply to that corp you are automatically accepted, then you are free to play for who you prefer, but of course you have to pay a price for your freedom. Thumb Green wrote: Stopping ringers ain't going to help you any with that once all these ringers you can't beat form their own corp so they can start making ISK again. Why haven't they already done it? Blue donut was a thing, but then imploded. Always blame solar storms if something doesn't work as expected
xPainx Pain Pendejitos Smart Deploy 31	Posted - 2015.04.09 16:25:00 - [44] - Quote The pirate idea sounds interesting... Yes or no just by the posts you can see the problem. Most of the nays are people with strong corps that are established. But... Pirates vs mercenaries... O Those who do not risk have already lost..
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3694	Posted - 2015.04.09 16:30:00 - [45] - Quote xPainx Pain is right! Ringers are a huge problem that severely limit the appeal of PC. IMO, ringers a far bigger issue than lag -- which has been a part of PC since its inception, and, not coincidentally, didn't stop an even more deadly group of ringers from dominating PC when lag was even worse. So it comes as no surprise that the issue of ringers has come up in the PC think-tank that's been set up. Ringing is a huge issue and should be addressed, post haste. Said a bit differently, PC 2.0 could be absolutely wonderfully designed, but if the same small group of ringers continues to be enabled to farm any/all land owners, there will still be a very limited group participating. You can only get your face punched in so many times. We need to make PC more available/accessible and not tilted so far in favor of a small group of ringers. Perhaps limit the number of non-corp or non-alliance members, or make there some type of cost to do so. Because the way it is now, the same group of 20 or so players simply exhibit too much influence on the game mode, IMO, and it's put a huge damper on participation in the Dust end-game. Lag is certainly a problem in PC, but even if we solve that, the problem of ringers will continue to limit the broad appeal of what every corp should aspire to -- PC. Sincerely, Leadfoot (ML Director)
Avallo Kantor 609	Posted - 2015.04.09 16:48:00 - [46] - Quote What if you had something rather like Infomorph Psychology / jump (clone) fatigue? Basically the idea is this: Player Owned Districts use secure, close-linked Infomorph passageways to both secure ownership of the district, and to allow rapid planetary response to owned districts without the need for traditional supply routes. However, because of the nature of these Infomorph lanes, using them puts a strain on users. This is offset by corporation members undergoing gradual acclimation training that is interwoven into standard operations. With enough prep time, any mercenary exposed to this procedure no longer feels the stress of using this secure passageway, and can use it without ill effects. Mercenaries who have not had the requisite adaption will suffer from Infomorph Stress, which is a mental fatigue that negatively impacts a Mercenary. While one-time uses will not negatively impact a user, continued use would cause long-term damage to the immortal mind of the mercenary. Game mechanics wise: Corporation members who have obtained some minimum level of activity while in the corp (measured by some means) will have no negative impact upon deploying to their corporation's PC battles. (Offense, or Defense) Others will take Infomorph Fatigue, basically the same exhaustion that Capsuleers take when using jump clones. To counteract this there will be a new skill, Infomorph Psychology (much like it's EVE counterpart) that increases the amount of different networks they can access. Infomorph Synchronizing (Another EVE skill) reduces the time between you are able to use another corporation's Infomorph network. Basically: -No penalty to corp members who have X life time corp activity (to prevent '1-day corp members') -Inability to Mercs to Ring in multiple times without a skill investment to allow them to do this faster / more corps at once. -Active choice on the part of a Ringer on their ability to intervene in a battle, and comes at opportunity costs. The idea is to make it so ringers can have mechanics that limit them, while also having the ability for 'career ringers' to ply their trade, and be more available than others. Effectively creating a job path for this activity. Second part: Corporate Infomorph Network (potential Flotilla upgrade as well?) -Basically a Corporation gets X back-door keys. (Let's spitball 5) -They can use these backdoor keys to allow Ringers, one key per ringer. -Those with a Key can Ring without issue after a 1-hour 'connection verification' period. -Removing a Ringer takes 24 hours to clear from the system, during which time the key remains locked to that merc. -A Merc can only have as many Keys as 1 + their Infomorph Psychology Skill. This allows a corp to set up so many Ringers, limited, that can easily be subbed in (if their fatigue is not a factor) to fight for the corp. These Ringers would not cost the corp any additional resources to sub in. Part 3: For other Ringers who don't have key access, they can also be subbed in with no wait time, but doing so costs CP. The cost is not insubstantial, and it would only take about 6 of these Ringers (without keys) to cost a whole attack, effectively cutting deeply into a corps ability to attack or defend. (Depending on possibility this cost could be dynamic, increasing for each additional ringer within that downtime period) The idea here is that Ringers should be allowed, but at extreme disadvantage to the corp calling them in. (not to mention any costs the ringers may demand) It is always less ideal than your key Ringers, and your corp members. Note: Each one of these 3 parts is a separate part, so do not need to be taken in whole cloth. Part 1 could easily be a feature regardless of part 2 / 3.
Kash Tellan Blauhelme E.B.O.L.A. 136	Posted - 2015.04.09 16:56:00 - [47] - Quote I knew it! It's the ringers! They make the framerate drop! meh
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 1840	Posted - 2015.04.09 16:57:00 - [48] - Quote xPainx Pain wrote: Pc is broken. A good idea is to have only players from ally corps and not those from other places or corp only in battles. Some have lots of good players but in other corps and their corp alone is not good enough to be in a pc. You can see 3 men corps with districts but defend and atack with players from multiple corps. I see 15 ringers showing up to your district in the near future. You might want to go ahead and get your next thread ready.
VAHZZ 1261	Posted - 2015.04.09 16:58:00 - [49] - Quote I want to be a pirate! I have been told that i got some good booty *BRUH* Closed Beta Vet
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 1075	Posted - 2015.04.09 17:09:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. people dont want me and my friend's services because because we are too expensive. So that's a start. Maybe if you put a fee that must be paid before a game starts based on their PC experience people will think twice of hiring ringers. They might be able to get cheap ringers but not the good ones with tons of PC experience and will need to pay a hefty price. AE. Ringing fee. 5m isk per battle. yahoo is full of fcking racists dumb knts.

Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2214	Posted - 2015.04.09 17:16:00 - [51] - Quote shaman oga wrote: This is a game, soccer is only an example of a squad game, i could have used volley, basketball or every other squad sport where players are paid to play, while you are under a contract with one team you can't play for another, it's the same damn thing. Well none of those sports have "squads" but that's irrelevant. You are very correct about this being a game; now, what makes people enjoy games? Immersion, and locking mercenaries into a corp to be able to fight in any given battle kind of ruins immersion. Also, very few corporations in New Eden require you to sign a long term contract (I personally never seen any myself) to work with them. I know every contract I've accepted has been on a per battle basis. shaman oga wrote: Why haven't they already done it? Because right now they don't need to. Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty hipster! Rated [TV-MA]
DUST Fiend 16292	Posted - 2015.04.09 17:54:00 - [52] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. lol theres only like 50 players playing PC right now anyways. that PC lag is your biggest killer of the game. Maybe because they get crushed by the best 16 everytime they try? Crushed by the best 16 frames per second maybe Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe
Balistyc Farshot The Exemplars 137	Posted - 2015.04.09 17:59:00 - [53] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: xPainx Pain is right! Ringers are a huge problem that severely limit the appeal of PC. IMO, ringers a far bigger issue than lag -- which has been a part of PC since its inception, and, not coincidentally, didn't stop an even more deadly group of ringers from dominating PC when lag was even worse. So it comes as no surprise that the issue of ringers has come up in the PC think-tank that's been set up. Ringing is a huge issue and should be addressed, post haste. Said a bit differently, PC 2.0 could be absolutely wonderfully designed and even lag-free, but if the same small group of ringers continues to be enabled to farm any/all land owners, there will still be a very limited group participating. You can only get your face punched in so many times by trolly neckbeards before you give up. This has been a recurring challenge for us in ML, and all the corps we talk to on a regular basis. The community has itself tried to police this problem. First with Planet Fight Club, and later with the "last district rule". While they had some success, both ultimately failed miserably....and we are left with PC in the state that it's in. That is to say a bad place. We need to make PC more available/accessible and not tilted so far in favor of a small group of ringers. Perhaps limit the number of non-corp or non-alliance members, or implement type of cost to do so. Because the way it is now, the same group of 20 or so players simply exhibit too much influence on the game mode, IMO, and it's put a huge damper on participation in the Dust end-game. TL;DR: Lag is certainly a problem in PC, but even if we solve that, the problem of ringers will continue to limit the broader appeal of what every corp should aspire to. We need to solve this issue, or we'll continue to see limited participation in PC. Sincerely, Leadfoot (ML Director & 2+ year PC participant/FC) p.s. Rattati, I'm not sure if you're aware of this but very few ringers are paid to fight these days. Fights are so scarce -- because of the above issues -- and the ringers have enough ISK already, that people are generally ringing for free. He is right! Yes, some people are more skilled than others, they should only be allowed to fight in so many PC battles. This ringing from corp to corp will keep lower tiered corpmates on the sidelines. Now to start shotgunning and REing again, everyone will love this play style. Face Palm!
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3347	Posted - 2015.04.09 18:11:00 - [54] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. lol theres only like 50 players playing PC right now anyways. that PC lag is your biggest killer of the game. You tell him CUSE! I'm sure many people who probably ~should~ do PC matches don't because of this. I for one might actually give half a f**k if I was guaranteed to be in a smooth battle NOT against people with 4 bazillion ping Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? SCV Ready!
Hitman Turrentine EVE'S Best 1	Posted - 2015.04.09 18:16:00 - [55] - Quote xPainx Pain wrote: Pc is broken. A good idea is to have only players from ally corps and not those from other places or corp only in battles. Some have lots of good players but in other corps and their corp alone is not good enough to be in a pc. You can see 3 men corps with districts but defend and atack with players from multiple corps. You have to get in a alliance!!!
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 516	Posted - 2015.04.09 18:37:00 - [56] - Quote I'm one of the players who has to say "Yes" to keeping Ringers in your PC battles. Please remember that, unlike ANY other mode of Dust, the PC mode is initiated and inserted at the ambitions of an EVE-Online player. Just like in that "Battle for Caldari Prime" video, there is going to be an Eve Player who sees a prize she wants, can't get it using her spaceship buddies, and HAS to hire "a contractor to do the job". How is she going to pick which Merc Corp to do the job? Maybe by our social advertizing, or word of mouth, good-faith recommendation, etc, Prevail-Command Corp will say "yeah, we can do it for you--we're tops in this kind of work". Just like a Client, the Eve Player doesn't know (doesn't need to know--you don't want her to know your personnel business) WHO Prevail-Comm is going to bring to that battle. That burden of success is on Prevail-Comm. The Eve Player is gambling/relying on what she can't see, and hoping Prevail-Comm will just WIN the danged battle for her (CRAP who they use, as far as she's concerned--Just give her a fine finished product). Of course it's to the enemy team's advantage to put personnel restrictions on Prevail-Comm---any safe assumptions the enemy can make about what Prevail's track record, or what mechs they will be bringing to the fight, ALL BEFORE the fight even gets going,GÇª is every "enemy's" JACKPOT DREAM--Yeess Please! GÇªBut that's not fair-open combat to have "rules" about how Prevail can't be allowed to bring a secret weapon (aka, a Ringer that the enemy wasn't intelligently equipped to safeguard against---but still wants to consider itself a "competent" enemy). And it's not fair-open combat to require that Prevail-Comm report all its intended players to the enemy before the match. And it's not fair to Prevail-Comm to say they are a "mercenary corp for hire", but they can't make any kind of temp-hire or temp-contract they want as part of running their own business and backing up that assurance that they will WIN the battle for that EVE Player who agreed to hire them. I respect the analogy of this combat-game as a sports-game (where coaches are allowed to know about and study the opposing team's players)GÇª but the Dust/EVE dynamic is about betting your wealth on a RISK. And you can't have a Risk without "blinders" (like NOT knowing what the red you're shooting at will pull out of her coat pocket; NOT knowing if they are going to bring in a Minmatar Titan ship for reinforcement; NOT knowing if they will use really good Dropship-transport players in Day-2 of your PC match). Even "real" combat has Blinders. Okay, I have no problem with attaching some sort of "subcontractor fee/tax" to "hiring" a Ringer, and maybe making this an added dynamic that Prevail-Comm has to consider as a drain on their agreed price with the Capsuleer-client. I think that might be really coolGÇª and it could open the "Solo" player to a whole private ISK enterprise "hiring" themselves out like Western Clint Eastwood, as a temporary troubleshooter for needy corps. But never eliminate Ringers completely. I prefer risky unfair Dust slaughter, over the "everybody-play-fair-n-nice" sports match. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game RUST415 568	Posted - 2015.04.09 19:37:00 - [57] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: As Immortal Mercenaries, doesn't it make sense that a corporation would be able to hire mercenaries to do mercenary work? While I was in a squad someone said that we should get more command points for having more corp members in the battle instead of ringers so to be a fully efficient corp you would have to be large in number or power. Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
Flyingconejo Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1168	Posted - 2015.04.09 19:56:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Maybe because they get crushed by the best 16 everytime they try? Did it really took you guys 2 years to see this? What do you have a CPM for? The same thing has been happening since PC started 2 years ago. The community warned you from the start, and we were told that this was New Eden, to HTFU and that you needed more data before changing anything. One can only hope they finish their data collecting soon, HTFU themselves, and do something to the thing that was supposed to be the endgame of Dust. By the way, blaming the players for how they play a lazy and bad designed game mode is pitiful. The blame lays on the designers.
BLUNT SMKR Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 266	Posted - 2015.04.09 20:03:00 - [59] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. Hey man, ringing is my only main source of income. How am I going to feed my kids? U could always join RND TeamWork>KDR Jump Off a Cliff An Hit The Sky With Me
Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2215	Posted - 2015.04.09 20:14:00 - [60] - Quote Balistyc Farshot wrote: . This ringing from corp to corp will keep lower tiered corpmates on the sidelines. Not if CCP finally gives us the rest of New Eden or at least some more of it instead of keeping us confined to Molden Heath. Hell, MH has 245 districts so if every other region had at least that much we would have 15,680 districts to be fighting over. The scope of PC has always been one of its core problems as far as I can see. Why did the Blue Donuts come into existence? Because there wasn't enough districts to thin out their resources. Why do low tiered corpmates just warm up the bench? Because when a corp wants to keep or take a district it'll only use low tiered players if it has to but they don't have to because again they're not even straining their resources. Why do so few control PC? Because subjugating a single village (region) is easier and requires less resources than subjugating the whole kingdom (universe) and right now PC is limited to being a village. Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty hipster! Rated [TV-MA]

Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 7586	Posted - 2015.04.09 21:53:00 - [61] - Quote iam the director of Negative-Impact I was under the impression that people in this game were mercs or something... My districts are defended by mercs that are hired and paid.... With love. Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll take your districts and hurt you. Get Dust ISK Here
Leither Yiltron Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1132	Posted - 2015.04.09 22:01:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. lol theres only like 50 players playing PC right now anyways. that PC lag is your biggest killer of the game. Maybe because they get crushed by the best 16 everytime they try? CUSE wouldn't really know about this part, since I handled that for KEQ. ;P Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi Have a pony
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 7586	Posted - 2015.04.09 22:41:00 - [63] - Quote Anyways... Ringers are a problem. but... As someone who ringers for others.: My corp is not large enough to field a full team so majority of my PC battles come from helping other corps in their PC battles. As someone who owns districts because of ringers: Many people out there have the same problem as me they do not have enough members in there corp so ringing is the only way they get battles. Getting rid of ringers would push a lot of people out of PC because they don't want to join a mainstream corp. I would not mind some limitation on ringers, but i feel like at least alliance ringers should be allowed unrestricted or else there would not be much reason for alliances or advantages of alliances. Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll take your districts and hurt you. Get Dust ISK Here
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 9259	Posted - 2015.04.09 22:57:00 - [64] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Anyways... Ringers are a problem. but... As someone who ringers for others.: My corp is not large enough to field a full team so majority of my PC battles come from helping other corps in their PC battles. As someone who owns districts because of ringers: Many people out there have the same problem as me they do not have enough members in there corp so ringing is the only way they get battles. Getting rid of ringers would push a lot of people out of PC because they don't want to join a mainstream corp. I would not mind some limitation on ringers, but i feel like at least alliance ringers should be allowed unrestricted or else there would not be much reason for alliances or advantages of alliances. Whatever mechanism there would be to limit Ringers must be effective enough that Corp size matters, that Corps/Alliances can't simply rely on a relatively small number of players to fight a majority of battles (thus ignoring growth of a Corp, providing experience to novice/intermediary players), and that it prevents Corps/Alliances from locking a number of districts. Otherwise, you simply end up with a system ready to be abused. As we ARE mercenaries, I don't think ringing should be eliminated, but it certainly must be kept in check, or else a minority of mercs will limit the ability of a significant number of people from real, meaningful PC participation. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 330	Posted - 2015.04.09 23:04:00 - [65] - Quote PC Districts could be put into SP driven tiers. A teams fight over A districts, but not B or C. B and C teams fight over districts of lesser worth, but can participate in the A tier fights if needed. Mercs will make Alts to fight in the lower tiers. Maybe they already have alts and will purchase respecs to specialize those alts to contribute better in their tiers. Money will be made. PC will be more inclusive. Ringers using their 50mil+ toons would be limited to the most valuable districts, but which would grant the greatest rewards. Lower tier mercs will cut their teeth in the lesser districts and dream of the day they get called up into an A tier fightGÇª Joy will be had. Tears will be collected. Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
Mastodonhead CURSED GEAR 25	Posted - 2015.04.09 23:07:00 - [66] - Quote xPainx Pain wrote: Pc is broken. A good idea is to have only players from ally corps and not those from other places or corp only in battles. Some have lots of good players but in other corps and their corp alone is not good enough to be in a pc. You can see 3 men corps with districts but defend and atack with players from multiple corps. 1 Ex of this is the corp Adult XXX Enterteinment on BC only 1 or 2 are members of this corp, anyone else are fron OH, NS, PE, etc etc I feel like shit!!!................................. but at least i feel something!!! Sangre por Sangre de por vida \m/
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 7586	Posted - 2015.04.09 23:54:00 - [67] - Quote Mastodonhead wrote: xPainx Pain wrote: Pc is broken. A good idea is to have only players from ally corps and not those from other places or corp only in battles. Some have lots of good players but in other corps and their corp alone is not good enough to be in a pc. You can see 3 men corps with districts but defend and atack with players from multiple corps. 1 Ex of this is the corp Adult XXX Enterteinment on BC only 1 or 2 are members of this corp, anyone else are fron OH, NS, PE, etc etc I don't think nyian san even pc's and who is PE? Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll take your districts and hurt you. Get Dust ISK Here
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18110	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:07:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. Hey man, ringing is my only main source of income. How am I going to feed my kids? If ringers become scarce, good ringers go up in price? More money for you I guess Concerns somewhat allayed by inference of economic concepts...... but what about fielding entire mercenary teams to achieve specific ends? Is this ever likely to be a possibility? GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥ -The Nameless City
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 2386	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:17:00 - [69] - Quote listen the little corps in PC will all ways get stomped by more experienced players there ain't no changeing that. at least fix it so they aren't lagging while getting stomped because that right there has made 1000s of players quit after trying 1 battle. this game would probably be 10 times more boring without ringers but if you think some how it will make the game better for new players then try it. what would happen is all the vets would join 3 corps and stomp out all the little corps and get bored fighting each other. this changes the game in no way shape or form. waisting a whole patch once again while the core of the game is still broken 2 1/2 year in. CBM. KEQ diplomat. lolceasefire
Mastodonhead CURSED GEAR 25	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:26:00 - [70] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Mastodonhead wrote: xPainx Pain wrote: Pc is broken. A good idea is to have only players from ally corps and not those from other places or corp only in battles. Some have lots of good players but in other corps and their corp alone is not good enough to be in a pc. You can see 3 men corps with districts but defend and atack with players from multiple corps. 1 Ex of this is the corp Adult XXX Enterteinment on BC only 1 or 2 are members of this corp, anyone else are fron OH, NS, PE, etc etc I don't think nyian san even pc's and who is PE? Planet Express I feel like shit!!!................................. but at least i feel something!!! Sangre por Sangre de por vida \m/

Alena Ventrallis Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 2978	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:26:00 - [71] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. Perhaps add a "fee" for bringing ringers. have it increase exponentially once you are over a certain amount. for example, 4 ringers incurs a penalty of 200,000. 5 ringers is 1 mill. 6 ringers is 3.5 mill. On and on until you receive no profit for the battle over a certain amount of ringers. Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
Leither Yiltron Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1132	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:27:00 - [72] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: I would not mind some limitation on ringers, but i feel like at least alliance ringers should be allowed unrestricted or else there would not be much reason for alliances or advantages of alliances. My impression is that this is certainly supported by most in the community. It's just a matter of downsizing the ease with which corps run entire teams of completely unassociated players any time they feel remotely threatened. Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi Have a pony
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 7586	Posted - 2015.04.10 00:48:00 - [73] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: I would not mind some limitation on ringers, but i feel like at least alliance ringers should be allowed unrestricted or else there would not be much reason for alliances or advantages of alliances. My impression is that this is certainly supported by most in the community. It's just a matter of downsizing the ease with which corps run entire teams of completely unassociated players any time they feel remotely threatened. Corps don't run ringers because they feel threatene, they run ringer just because they can or need to. Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll take your districts and hurt you. Get Dust ISK Here
P14GU3 UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 1442	Posted - 2015.04.10 01:03:00 - [74] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Leither Yiltron wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: I would not mind some limitation on ringers, but i feel like at least alliance ringers should be allowed unrestricted or else there would not be much reason for alliances or advantages of alliances. My impression is that this is certainly supported by most in the community. It's just a matter of downsizing the ease with which corps run entire teams of completely unassociated players any time they feel remotely threatened. Corps don't run ringers because they feel threatene, they run ringer just because they can or need to. Why hold districts if you dont have a corp to defend them? Cant you just ring for others if you want PC battles? Im not against ringers per se, but I have a LOT more respect for those who field full corp teams. People hire ringers because they aren't good enough to do it on their own. 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
Mastodonhead CURSED GEAR 25	Posted - 2015.04.10 01:10:00 - [75] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Leither Yiltron wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: I would not mind some limitation on ringers, but i feel like at least alliance ringers should be allowed unrestricted or else there would not be much reason for alliances or advantages of alliances. My impression is that this is certainly supported by most in the community. It's just a matter of downsizing the ease with which corps run entire teams of completely unassociated players any time they feel remotely threatened. Corps don't run ringers because they feel threatene, they run ringer just because they can or need to. That's right and i agree with you, but as you say at least and only the players of the Alliance should be Allowed I feel like shit!!!................................. but at least i feel something!!! Sangre por Sangre de por vida \m/
DUST Fiend 16296	Posted - 2015.04.10 01:20:00 - [76] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: I would not mind some limitation on ringers, but i feel like at least alliance ringers should be allowed unrestricted or else there would not be much reason for alliances or advantages of alliances. My impression is that this is certainly supported by most in the community. It's just a matter of downsizing the ease with which corps run entire teams of completely unassociated players any time they feel remotely threatened. There aren't exactly a wealth of high SP players left in this game who actually play to any serious extent. Limiting the number of players who can participate even further may not exactly help issues. Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe
Leither Yiltron Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1132	Posted - 2015.04.10 01:46:00 - [77] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Leither Yiltron wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: I would not mind some limitation on ringers, but i feel like at least alliance ringers should be allowed unrestricted or else there would not be much reason for alliances or advantages of alliances. My impression is that this is certainly supported by most in the community. It's just a matter of downsizing the ease with which corps run entire teams of completely unassociated players any time they feel remotely threatened. There aren't exactly a wealth of high SP players left in this game who actually play to any serious extent. Limiting the number of players who can participate even further may not exactly help issues. Well the somewhat forlorn hope here is that whatever changes made will substantially improve accessibility to PC. Either way, who gives a **** about the health of the current PC iteration? You can't get deader than dead. Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi Have a pony
DUST Fiend 16296	Posted - 2015.04.10 01:48:00 - [78] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Leither Yiltron wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: I would not mind some limitation on ringers, but i feel like at least alliance ringers should be allowed unrestricted or else there would not be much reason for alliances or advantages of alliances. My impression is that this is certainly supported by most in the community. It's just a matter of downsizing the ease with which corps run entire teams of completely unassociated players any time they feel remotely threatened. There aren't exactly a wealth of high SP players left in this game who actually play to any serious extent. Limiting the number of players who can participate even further may not exactly help issues. Well the somewhat forlorn hope here is that whatever changes made will substantially improve accessibility to PC. Either way, who gives a **** about the health of the current PC iteration? You can't get deader than dead. That won't change at all though if the average FPS in any given PC match is 5 Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe
M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 161	Posted - 2015.04.10 02:08:00 - [79] - Quote I think a way to build teams is key to making it less of a beat down getting ready for PC. I think 2.5 mil for "clone programming" per non-alliance player. I think raiding districts and team deploy in faction warfare have to happen. PC itself will have to be very lucrative to create progression. I think a total revamp is needed in the reward structure. It should be obvious that the majority of the people playing this game are not motivated to rise to the highest levels of the game. With such a low PC population it's hardly surprising it's all down to ringers.
Jack the Rlpper OUTCAST MERCS General Tso's Alliance 168	Posted - 2015.04.10 02:33:00 - [80] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: dam DMG crys more about stuff then my girl watching the titanic on her period. lol Cuse and a few other no lifer assholes that feel they are gods gift to dust just want it even easier for them to act like the gods and run over the small corp when honestly they are just a group of stupid no life bitches in my opinion. Give me ISK please so I may better myself and fight the war of proto forever.

Everything Dies Raging Wrath of the Easter Bunny 1324	Posted - 2015.04.10 05:44:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. I made this suggestion a long time ago: Clone penalties for every non-corp member on your team. For example, say you have a battle with 150 clones on each side. Team A has 12 corp members and 4 alliance ringers in the battle, whereas Team B has 3 corp members, 10 alliance ringers and 3 mercenaries from outside of the corp/alliance. For Team A, they could face a two or three clone penalty for each alliance ringer. We'll go with 3, so that would leave Team A to fight with 138 clones in the battle. For Team B, they'd lose thirty clones for the alliance ringers in addition to another 15 clones for the 3 mercs (higher penalty for bringing in help from outside of the alliance) leaving them with 105 for the battle. This way, you'd be rewarding corps for fielding full teams while also still allowing for the benefits of an alliance (reduced clone penalty) as well as letting the truly elite ringers come with a risk/reward price tag. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
Leither Yiltron Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1132	Posted - 2015.04.10 05:46:00 - [82] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Leither Yiltron wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Leither Yiltron wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: I would not mind some limitation on ringers, but i feel like at least alliance ringers should be allowed unrestricted or else there would not be much reason for alliances or advantages of alliances. My impression is that this is certainly supported by most in the community. It's just a matter of downsizing the ease with which corps run entire teams of completely unassociated players any time they feel remotely threatened. There aren't exactly a wealth of high SP players left in this game who actually play to any serious extent. Limiting the number of players who can participate even further may not exactly help issues. Well the somewhat forlorn hope here is that whatever changes made will substantially improve accessibility to PC. Either way, who gives a **** about the health of the current PC iteration? You can't get deader than dead. That won't change at all though if the average FPS in any given PC match is 5 You say that as if it's news to me. But I have one of the longest histories of trying to consolidate feedback about PC lag of anyone around town. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1301431 Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi Have a pony
xPainx Pain Pendejitos Smart Deploy 33	Posted - 2015.04.10 06:06:00 - [83] - Quote When we deploy clones to a district some are lost in the way. Every corp has a location depending on how far the ringers corp is from the attacked or defended district then that clone loss would be subtracted from the total clones in the actual pc. This wouldultimately use the logic already used in deploying clones across de galaxy and thus implementing this same thing in deploying ringers. Those who do not risk have already lost..
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game RUST415 516	Posted - 2015.04.10 06:24:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: After spending the week with PC corporation representatives (The PC Think Tank), the issue of ringers has come up quite often. The consensus seems to be that ringers should exist, but not be risk free and as prevalant as now, particularly at the expense of homegrown talent. More to follow later. lol theres only like 50 players playing PC right now anyways. that PC lag is your biggest killer of the game. Maybe because they get crushed by the best 16 everytime they try? You're so wrong hahaha! The 16 you're talking about are lagging like hell that's why you think they are "the best". How can't you see it? Don't you play your own game? Fix the game before trying to add anything else. (Hint: hit detection, lags, glitches,.. you've got some work :) )
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 7587	Posted - 2015.04.10 06:32:00 - [85] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Leither Yiltron wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: I would not mind some limitation on ringers, but i feel like at least alliance ringers should be allowed unrestricted or else there would not be much reason for alliances or advantages of alliances. My impression is that this is certainly supported by most in the community. It's just a matter of downsizing the ease with which corps run entire teams of completely unassociated players any time they feel remotely threatened. Corps don't run ringers because they feel threatene, they run ringer just because they can or need to. Why hold districts if you dont have a corp to defend them? Cant you just ring for others if you want PC battles? Im not against ringers per se, but I have a LOT more respect for those who field full corp teams. People hire ringers because they aren't good enough to do it on their own. Whats the difference between ringing for others and having them ring for me? Not everyone is really out to be respected, liked or be nice. Some just like to pick fights and kick down sand castles. That's the fun part of PC, not really the battles themselves. The meta game is engaging. Also taking away ringers is going to hurt a lot of smaller corps. the large and vet corps will adapt quickly to it. The small corps will still be small and now won't be able to fill the last few spots because a lot of smaller corps can't field 16 at a time. If there are current ringers that are not in a PC they will be joining the large corps, not the small corps. This might possibly lower the corps in PC to lower than what i currently is. Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll take your districts and hurt you. Get Dust ISK Here
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 7593	Posted - 2015.04.10 07:07:00 - [86] - Quote Jack the Rlpper wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: dam DMG crys more about stuff then my girl watching the titanic on her period. lol Cuse and a few other no lifer assholes that feel they are gods gift to dust just want it even easier for them to act like the gods and run over the small corp when honestly they are just a group of stupid no life bitches in my opinion. who gave the poors their talking privileges back? I'm going back to my castle on mt. meildolf where i don't have to look at them... Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll take your districts and hurt you. Get Dust ISK Here
Knight Soiaire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5967	Posted - 2015.04.10 11:13:00 - [87] - Quote Just add high-sec district battles in which only players from the corps that are fighting can compete, lower ISK payout, but maybe include a betting system and spectator mode that anyone can click into. Sort of like the Arena modes CCP promised us years back.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1242	Posted - 2015.04.10 11:26:00 - [88] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: As Immortal Mercenaries, doesn't it make sense that a corporation would be able to hire mercenaries to do mercenary work? Yes, but the result of the ownership of said district should then be cut into segments. giving a % of ownership to the corp of each player involved. If you want an ally corp to assist with a takeback, mayhaps their "fee" is 10% of the district etc. This would add another layer of risk to those who think just to grab as large a group as possible to take over a location. Unless you can get them all to hand over their %'s, the area won't be exclusively owned. Yadda yadda. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2184	Posted - 2015.04.10 11:37:00 - [89] - Quote The people supporting the use of ringers are the guys giving the best reasons to end the ability to do so. Unleash the BIMBOBOT!
ReGnYuM Carne Con Papas 3646	Posted - 2015.04.10 12:27:00 - [90] - Quote I don't about the new Big Dog's of PC but me personally. I would be making a list of those corporations so vocally against Ringing. Maybe a vacation in Exile Island would give them more time to measure the Pro and Cons of ringing

Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 331	Posted - 2015.04.10 12:55:00 - [91] - Quote It seems to me ringers can't be everywhere at onceGÇªwhat if your warbarge location dictated whether or not you can participate in an attackGÇªif you're too far away when an attack is placed, you're gonna miss the party! EDIT: And if you're just on the threshold, maybe you can join a battle halfway through be the cavalry! Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2265	Posted - 2015.04.10 13:10:00 - [92] - Quote I wrote about this problem very shortly after PC was released to us. There is no geography in Dust. Or, in other words, we don't actually exist in New Eden. If we did there would be some kind of limitation on how far we could travel in a given amount of time. Instead we instantly teleport everywhere. This is not unlike the situation in Eve up to the Phoebe expansion where smaller groups basically never fielded their capital ships because Pandemic Legion would teleport themselves across the galaxy in minutes and drop a dozen titans on them. The Phoebe expansion fixed this by dramatically reducing the distance capital ships could travel in a short period of time. Dust has infinite travel distance. This creates two force projection problems: 1) A player can fight everywhere at all times, which creates the situation of the top players totally controlling the PC area 2) There is no higher level strategy to district ownership, since you can basically attack anywhere on the map at any time. Even with restrictions on clone pack purchases all you have to do is set up a dummy corporation and transfer isk to it. I think the only way to truly fix the problem is to firmly tie a Dust character to a location in space. Today my character is at such and such a planet in system X. He can queue up for battles launched from districts on that planet. If I want to join battles launched from another planet I have to select it as my new location and then wait a certain amount of time until he arrives there. The further away the longer the wait. In the meantime I can play instant matches. This also fixes the problem with the missing strategic level play in PC and makes distance based attrition actually matter. It gives a commander a choice - do we fully secure the planet we're on or use diplomacy to attempt to make sure we're safe? It would allow players to attempt to create safe zones through controlling choke points. For example - http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Molden_Heath/Oddelulf#temperate If you fully control this planet then the 5 planets in the systems behind Istodard are much more easily defended because the attackers have to take a significant attrition penalty from trying to attack from Bosena or Gelfiven. This makes locations have meaning to the players. These planets are ours and through hard work / diplomacy we've created a choke point that makes our home easier to defend. Through careful consideration of SI bonuses, we've created a network of cargo hubs and research labs that let us keep the front line resupplied, with production facilities safely in the rear. That also creates interesting choices for the attackers. The cargo hubs are pretty nasty to try and take, but if they can disrupt the research labs in the logistics chain then they won't be at full strength. Or they can go straight for the factories and try to shut them down despite the attrition disadvantage. Or they could convince a corporation to betray you, and convert one of their factories to a cargo hub to make it more difficult for you to end the disruption. The first problem is pretty bad, but I think the second one I described is the thing that is really killing Dust as an FPS where the battles are meaningful. If I can join a battle to control a district and not always face 16 top scoring players in the entire game...well that's good. But I still don't care about PC because it doesn't matter which district I own, because with the game design as it is every district is every other district's neighbor. There is no reason to own a particular district.
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 331	Posted - 2015.04.10 13:16:00 - [93] - Quote Kristoff Atruin for CPM2. Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2658	Posted - 2015.04.10 14:13:00 - [94] - Quote There are two game mechanics that will address the issue of ringers while adding immersion and interesting gameplay. These two mechanics work together so read the whole thing before rejecting it. The mechanics could be named Oversubscription and tactical Strategic Resources(tSR). Oversubscription We have only so many ringers to go around, and since fps skillz are distributed on a Gaussian curve and Rattati now has nice, fat data-rich mu for players, he knows how many players at any time are 'ringers'. Basically it's the number of people from the high tail of the Gaussian that have a strong probability, say about 90+%, of beating the rest of Dust in a match. We know from experience that there are enough ringers in the game to lock up Molden Heath almost completely. We have to give these elites more battles than the can possibly fight, forcing the use of 'B' string players and active recruiting programs. Rattati's raid mechanic is an excellent approach to this, but it needs to be given long, pointy 'teeth'. The reason is those raids really need to matter, and any elite corp ignoring raid defense is putting itself in a risky situation, god-like fps skills notwithstanding. We achieve this by giving raids a range of small but meaningful tactical consequences. These would be short duration(approx. 1 or 2 day) debuffs to global battle parameters on successfully raided districts. Some candidate ideas for debuffs: Increased spawn timers on CRUs & uplinks. Sleeper nanotoxins that slowly, steadily deplete available clones once a battle starts. Compromised RDV pilots - CCP has already done half the work on this for us ;) Increased defender hack timers and/or contested timers from sleeper viruses. Decreased attacker hack timers and/or contested timers from sleeper viruses. My personal favorite, disabled shared scans for defender Compromised TACNET - comes down to what the devs can asymmetrically modify between defender & attacker. Decreased defender/increased attacker MCC and/or nullcannon rate of fire/damage. Inertial damper jammer. I lols and lols. Increase clone transport attrition on 'away' missions. Very important: steal tSRs. More on this below. Any strong team could ignore any one or two of these debuffs and still easily win against a 'B' team, but if they foolishly allow the debuffs to stack up.... This will mean raids should be defended against. It also means that multiple weaker teams can 'soften up' an elite opponent, or at the very least keep them busy defending against raids. Rattati can tune the # of raids generated such that a single district is easy to defend and maybe 5 districts are hard to defend against raids. tSR(tactical Strategic Resources) tSRs will be produced/stored on districts in repurposed or dualpurposed SI. tSRs will be raidable - non-landowners will have to work for them, but they can save up over time for the 'big fight' that gets them into PC or to take out a hard target. tSR should also be tradeable - the gameplay to be had from this is mind-boggling, tbh. tSRs can be anything but for futureproofing it should be something that exists/fits into the EVE production chain. I like nanites, reprocessed on districts into programmable all-purpose 'weaponized nanites'. tSRs can be spent in 'District Management' to erase debuffs from raids. tSRs are available to attackers and defenders in PC battles only, and will be spent in the 'Off-map Assets' menu to: Apply a damage over time (DoT) to the enemy. Apply a negative DoT to friendlies. 'Paint' all enemy targets, increasing friendly TACNET range. 'Blind' all enemy targets, decreasing enemy TACNET range. Deconstruct deployed enemy equipment. A 'B' string corp that had carefully saved up a pile of tSRs could blow their load when trying to take ownership of an elite-defended district. An elite corp could spend tSRs to manage raid or debuffed district defense, the possibilities are pretty much endless and the very difficult decisions about where and how and how much to spend one's tSRs would be deep, engaging gameplay. Control over the team's tSR should belong to the 'Battlefield Commander', but if that's too much work for the devs then just split it up amongst the squad leads. That's the heart of it. We'd need hot-fixable parameters for the devteam and a balancing mechanism: # available raids against a corp would have to scale with # districts held, balanced by tSR production also scaling with number of districts held. This will work against breaking a corp up into alt corps, smaller sub-corps will be able to defend well enough, but won't have the tSR to fight a war of expansion. That means that after raid defense and district defense, they'll have to raid to debuff targets or raid for tSR. The attraction of the coupled oversubscription and tSR mechanics is that they address several problems PC has faced: The power of a team of elites in a lobby shooter - raids and tSR allow smart wolves to engage/harry/defeat the lion. The attraction of altcorps. Under these rules breaking a big corp into smaller corp(s) would make it more defendable but give it fewer options for aggression. Player engagement beyond the elites: under these rules manpower would be in demand. Raids could partially replace pubs and would be a great generator of meaningful and highly immersive content. 'B' strings would be put to work raiding for tSR and softening up targets. PC burnout. Corps can calibrate their # districts vs. raids to dial-in just how much timer-based content they want to consume. Caveat: As with all topics PC related, good ol' common sense applies: fix the lag please. The lag is why i don't PC. PSN: RationalSpark
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2658	Posted - 2015.04.10 14:18:00 - [95] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: I wrote about this problem very shortly after PC was released to us. There is no geography in Dust. Or, in other words, we don't actually exist in New Eden. If we did there would be some kind of limitation on how far we could travel in a given amount of time. Instead we instantly teleport everywhere. This is not unlike the situation in Eve up to the Phoebe expansion where smaller groups basically never fielded their capital ships because Pandemic Legion would teleport themselves across the galaxy in minutes and drop a dozen titans on them. The Phoebe expansion fixed this by dramatically reducing the distance capital ships could travel in a short period of time. Dust has infinite travel distance. This creates two force projection problems: 1) A player can fight everywhere at all times, which creates the situation of the top players totally controlling the PC area 2) There is no higher level strategy to district ownership, since you can basically attack anywhere on the map at any time. Even with restrictions on clone pack purchases all you have to do is set up a dummy corporation and transfer isk to it. I think the only way to truly fix the problem is to firmly tie a Dust character to a location in space. Today my character is at such and such a planet in system X. He can queue up for battles launched from districts on that planet. If I want to join battles launched from another planet I have to select it as my new location and then wait a certain amount of time until he arrives there. The further away the longer the wait. In the meantime I can play instant matches. This also fixes the problem with the missing strategic level play in PC and makes distance based attrition actually matter. It gives a commander a choice - do we fully secure the planet we're on or use diplomacy to attempt to make sure we're safe? It would allow players to attempt to create safe zones through controlling choke points. For example - http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Molden_Heath/Oddelulf#temperate If you fully control this planet then the 5 planets in the systems behind Istodard are much more easily defended because the attackers have to take a significant attrition penalty from trying to attack from Bosena or Gelfiven. This makes locations have meaning to the players. These planets are ours and through hard work / diplomacy we've created a choke point that makes our home easier to defend. Through careful consideration of SI bonuses, we've created a network of cargo hubs and research labs that let us keep the front line resupplied, with production facilities safely in the rear. That also creates interesting choices for the attackers. The cargo hubs are pretty nasty to try and take, but if they can disrupt the research labs in the logistics chain then they won't be at full strength. Or they can go straight for the factories and try to shut them down despite the attrition disadvantage. Or they could convince a corporation to betray you, and convert one of their factories to a cargo hub to make it more difficult for you to end the disruption. The first problem is pretty bad, but I think the second one I described is the thing that is really killing Dust as an FPS where the battles are meaningful. If I can join a battle to control a district and not always face 16 top scoring players in the entire game...well that's good. But I still don't care about PC because it doesn't matter which district I own, because with the game design as it is every district is every other district's neighbor. There is no reason to own a particular district. Agree completely Kristoff. Next to CCP claiming that DUST was ready for release back in 5/14/13 and the Rouge wedding, eliminating terrain from PC was prolly the single biggest heal-slapping move CCP has made. A lot of the mechanics peeps are proposing for PC really stem from the total lack of geography. PSN: RationalSpark
Moorian Flav 325	Posted - 2015.04.10 15:28:00 - [96] - Quote One thing that should definitely be addressed is there should be an extra/bonus reward when actually capturing the district. Part of the problem we have now is players for the most part rather just attack and lower clones rather than taking over as (1) they make the same amount of ISK either way and (2) they have someone they know they can attack, win, and reap ISK from later so they might as well rinse and repeat. I don't troll; I tell the truth. I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 2396	Posted - 2015.04.10 15:31:00 - [97] - Quote Jack the Rlpper wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: dam DMG crys more about stuff then my girl watching the titanic on her period. lol Cuse and a few other no lifer assholes that feel they are gods gift to dust just want it even easier for them to act like the gods and run over the small corp when honestly they are just a group of stupid no life bitches in my opinion. \o/ we are a lot kinder then the old vets who used to run this game. as in you would not be in PC period or you would have been paying rent. i don't think you understand that there is no rule book saying we had to be nice and let you play PC at all and yet we still helped you. i am not your god i am your shephard. now graze the pastures in peace young billy goat for there are wolfs outside those fences. CBM. KEQ diplomat. lolceasefire
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 1842	Posted - 2015.04.10 15:46:00 - [98] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Jack the Rlpper wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: dam DMG crys more about stuff then my girl watching the titanic on her period. lol Cuse and a few other no lifer assholes that feel they are gods gift to dust just want it even easier for them to act like the gods and run over the small corp when honestly they are just a group of stupid no life bitches in my opinion. \o/ we are a lot kinder then the old vets who used to run this game. as in you would not be in PC period or you would have been paying rent. i don't think you understand that there is no rule book saying we had to be nice and let you play PC at all and yet we still helped you. i am not your god i am your shephard. now graze the pastures in peace young billy goat for there are wolfs outside those fences. And here I was leaving Outcast Mercs alone to graze the pasture in peace. That was a mistake I won't be letting happen again.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 9272	Posted - 2015.04.10 16:13:00 - [99] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Jack the Rlpper wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: dam DMG crys more about stuff then my girl watching the titanic on her period. lol Cuse and a few other no lifer assholes that feel they are gods gift to dust just want it even easier for them to act like the gods and run over the small corp when honestly they are just a group of stupid no life bitches in my opinion. \o/ we are a lot kinder then the old vets who used to run this game. as in you would not be in PC period or you would have been paying rent. i don't think you understand that there is no rule book saying we had to be nice and let you play PC at all and yet we still helped you. i am not your god i am your shephard. now graze the pastures in peace young billy goat for there are wolfs outside those fences. There might not be rules now, but CCP makes the rules, and if they want more people playing PC, you can help them figure out how without ruining the game for you, or risk trying to hold on to "the way it has always been done" and finding that you don't like what CCP rolls out. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Leither Yiltron Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1133	Posted - 2015.04.10 22:07:00 - [100] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Leither Yiltron wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: I would not mind some limitation on ringers, but i feel like at least alliance ringers should be allowed unrestricted or else there would not be much reason for alliances or advantages of alliances. My impression is that this is certainly supported by most in the community. It's just a matter of downsizing the ease with which corps run entire teams of completely unassociated players any time they feel remotely threatened. Corps don't run ringers because they feel threatene, they run ringer just because they can or need to. In the politest way possible, Viktor, I don't know if you're trolling or just trying to protect your "interests" by your responses. At no point in time have you ever been CEO of a corporation that holds districts by any virtue other than the fact that hardly anybody plays PC now. The only time you ever had any serious PC experience with Death Dealers should directly contradict your apparent crusade to defend one of the most persistent problems in this iteration of PC: The same 100 odd people played in a gigantically disproportionate number of the battles in Molden Heath. Corps absolutely have run ringers when they feel threatened as their primary response in PC. Have the stories of STB or Cap Acq in their formative phase somehow vanished into the mists of time? And those are just the repeat offenders that I can name off the top of my head. Can I blame them for playing the game the way the rules let them? No, but damn is that ** not fun. Small, newer corps are hit the absolute hardest by the proliferation of ringers in Molden Heath. Even if you ignore the vast expense of using clone packs to attack, it's absolutely the case that the most well-matched targets for these newer corporations have a strong incentive to pull out an utterly different team in order to protect their districts. It has happened time and time again over the past two years. So yeah, you're not going to be able to own districts by running a 1 man "corporation" and begging help off your friends under a legitimate PC rule set. Get over it. Meanwhile stop acting like you have anything except a vested business interest for trying to defend that **. Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi Have a pony

CaoticFox Axis of Chaos 220	Posted - 2015.04.10 22:14:00 - [101] - Quote xPainx Pain wrote: No my friend you lost me. Ex... I have a district and you attack with 3 of your players and the rest from OH nyan San or take your pick. We field our team with corp members only and or ally corps. You play with the best veteran players and we have mostly ok and some ok members. Who wins? Experience. Things like this make small corps and people not want to play. Say you have a district and I come with my ringers from other corps and you only have your peeps to fight. I flip your little place and what do you think? Wtf? I think this would some how make pc better for all. Arent we MERCs??? What do MErCs do??? FIGHT FOR MONEY!!! He who has money has Districts. My SP is irrelevant... This game sucks, more than anything has sucked before. & GETTING WORSE!!!
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y General Tso's Alliance 717	Posted - 2015.04.10 22:16:00 - [102] - Quote Well, we're all technically playing the role of mercenaries... So paying or other wise hiring people to work for you kinda goes hand in hand with dust. Though most people do it to farm, personally I think they should have their isk modified to be red with a little "-" sign beside it ;) The new C.EO. of G.L.O.R.Y, (~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1060	Posted - 2015.04.10 22:31:00 - [103] - Quote Here is how I look at it , it should kinda be like the Eve alliance tournaments. You can only join in on that pc fight if you are part of that alliance for a certain period of time. If you know you got a big battle coming up soon, and the window is 3 days.. then a mercenary/ringer of sorts could join a corp in your alliance ,and fight that battle if he wishes.. but he can't just immediatley ring for everyone all the time. At least I think that's how the alliance tournaments worked, when you signed up and made your roster the person or corporation had to be part of the alliance for a certain amount of time. Am I wrong on that? Maybe take it a little further.. and have "mercenary rosters" attached to your alliance.. so they do not actually have to leave theirs, but they can only be registered on a set amount of merc rosters at one time. In order for you to be able to fight though, yopu must be on the roster for at least 3 days or so. Fighting for your own alliance does not count as a merc roster slot, so you can fight for them whenever. I kinda like the sound of that.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 785	Posted - 2015.04.11 17:52:00 - [104] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: xPainx Pain is right! Ringers are a huge problem that severely limit the appeal of PC. IMO, ringers a far bigger issue than lag -- which has been a part of PC since its inception, and, not coincidentally, didn't stop an even more deadly group of ringers from dominating PC when lag was even worse. So it comes as no surprise that the issue of ringers has come up in the PC think-tank that's been set up. Ringing is a huge issue and should be addressed, post haste. Said a bit differently, PC 2.0 could be absolutely wonderfully designed and even lag-free, but if the same small group of ringers continues to be enabled to farm any/all land owners, there will still be a very limited group participating. You can only get your face punched in so many times by trolly neckbeards before you give up. This has been a recurring challenge for us in ML, and all the corps we talk to on a regular basis. The community has itself tried to police this problem. First with Planet Fight Club, and later with the "last district rule". While they had some success, both ultimately failed miserably....and we are left with PC in the state that it's in. That is to say a bad place. We need to make PC more available/accessible and not tilted so far in favor of a small group of ringers. Perhaps limit the number of non-corp or non-alliance members, or implement type of cost to do so. Because the way it is now, the same group of 20 or so players simply exhibit too much influence on the game mode, IMO, and it's put a huge damper on participation in the Dust end-game. TL;DR: Lag is certainly a problem in PC, but even if we solve that, the problem of ringers will continue to limit the broader appeal of what every corp should aspire to. We need to solve this issue, or we'll continue to see limited participation in PC. Sincerely, Leadfoot (ML Director & 2+ year PC participant/FC) p.s. Rattati, I'm not sure if you're aware of this but very few ringers are paid to fight these days. Fights are so scarce -- because of the above issues -- and the ringers have enough ISK already, that people are generally ringing for free. This He killed it. "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 785	Posted - 2015.04.11 18:02:00 - [105] - Quote Dust User wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Jack the Rlpper wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: dam DMG crys more about stuff then my girl watching the titanic on her period. lol Cuse and a few other no lifer assholes that feel they are gods gift to dust just want it even easier for them to act like the gods and run over the small corp when honestly they are just a group of stupid no life bitches in my opinion. \o/ we are a lot kinder then the old vets who used to run this game. as in you would not be in PC period or you would have been paying rent. i don't think you understand that there is no rule book saying we had to be nice and let you play PC at all and yet we still helped you. i am not your god i am your shephard. now graze the pastures in peace young billy goat for there are wolfs outside those fences. And here I was leaving Outcast Mercs alone to graze the pasture in peace. That was a mistake I won't be letting happen again. He struck a nerve lol! You realize you're referring to exactly what he just said there? The whole playing god part. "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 785	Posted - 2015.04.11 18:28:00 - [106] - Quote On a serious note, while we're discussing ringing in such futility, there are a number of other aspects and ideas we could discuss to make PC better. Ringing is just a word. We will always have no-lifer neckbearders who will just become one corp/alliance anyway once you change the ringer part. They will simply become one entity, and claim they were always going to do this. I play PC, and have played since 6 mil SP. It's a love/hate relationship. The changes that need to take place will change the entire game. The lag is an issue, but isn't THE issue. As one merc has already said, once the lag is fixed, and hit detection issues are a thing of the past, then what? Change the wheel of districts concept to a overview map, give each territory a use for both eve pilots and dust mercs, and make it where loyalty to corp and alliance pays more than ringing. "Anybody order chaos?"
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 7605	Posted - 2015.04.13 17:15:00 - [107] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Leither Yiltron wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: I would not mind some limitation on ringers, but i feel like at least alliance ringers should be allowed unrestricted or else there would not be much reason for alliances or advantages of alliances. My impression is that this is certainly supported by most in the community. It's just a matter of downsizing the ease with which corps run entire teams of completely unassociated players any time they feel remotely threatened. Corps don't run ringers because they feel threatene, they run ringer just because they can or need to. In the politest way possible, Viktor, I don't know if you're trolling or just trying to protect your "interests" by your responses. At no point in time have you ever been CEO of a corporation that holds districts by any virtue other than the fact that hardly anybody plays PC now. The only time you ever had any serious PC logistics experience with Death Dealers should directly contradict your apparent crusade to defend one of the most persistent problems in this iteration of PC: The same 100 odd people played in a gigantically disproportionate number of the battles in Molden Heath. Corps absolutely have run ringers when they feel threatened as their primary response in PC. Have the stories of STB or Cap Acq in their formative phase somehow vanished into the mists of time? And those are just the repeat offenders that I can name off the top of my head. Can I blame them for playing the game the way the rules let them? No, but damn is that ** not fun. Small, newer corps are hit the absolute hardest by the proliferation of ringers in Molden Heath. Even if you ignore the vast expense of using clone packs to attack, it's absolutely the case that the most well-matched targets for these newer corporations have a strong incentive to pull out an utterly different team in order to protect their districts. It has happened time and time again over the past two years. So yeah, you're not going to be able to own districts by running a 1 man "corporation" and begging help off your friends under a legitimate PC rule set. Get over it. Meanwhile stop acting like you have anything except a vested business interest for trying to defend that **. and they also all said getting rid of passive isk would fix PC. You don't need to listen to a defense of ringers but it's not the large corps that will suffer, they can field full teams. it is the smaller newer corps that don't have the players that will be pushed out this time around. As for my comment, it is most certainly true. in 99% of the matches i play ringers are used just because they x up and the corp members don't. It's not often do i hear. "X corp member has to sit this game because it is a super serious PC." It is because some corps just don't have enough members to field a team with the low player base they use ringers to fill the team when not enough corp members are online. Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll take your districts and hurt you. Get Dust ISK Here


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