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Meta lockout= unusable apex suits

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The Dark Cloud Negative-Feedback. 4221	Posted - 2015.03.29 23:23:00 - [1] - Quote Just a hint for all those meta lockout fanatics. You think that your apex suit would get away with it? Sorry to burst your bubble but when you take a actual look at your fitting what comes into your mind? Sure all modules are STD lvl but they are all AUR modules and do you know what STD AUR modules have as a meta lvl? They all have the same meta lvl like ADV ISK modules. Because all modules are basically treated like if they where ADV modules/weapons/equipment all apex suits are in theory proto suits with full ADV stuff fitted in terms of meta lvl. If we would for example all agree on a max meta lvl of 25 then not even a single apex suit could be used in a pub match. So hows meta lvl beeing calculated? Its quite simple all modules, equipment and weapons have a meta lvl. The summary of everything from your suit is the meta lvl which is most likely to be used when this is happening. For those who are too lazy to calculate every module etc. for your apex sut just go to the market and check the visual costumisations category. There you scroll down till you find your apex suit and then its listed next to PG/CPU. For example the cal. logi apex suit has a meta lvl of 50. With 50 i could make a advanced suit fully fit with most proto stuff. The reason why that suit has such a high lvl is due to the fact that all slots on apex suits are fitted. And because that suit has 5 high, 4 low, 3 equipment, 1 light weapon and 1 grenade means all 14 slots are stuffed with AUR modules. Im really curious how CCP wants to adress this cause otherwise ALOT of people will get VERY mad.On a side note the lowest meta lvl has the minmatarr commando "renegade" with 27. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 3110	Posted - 2015.03.29 23:25:00 - [2] - Quote You will be able to use them in pubs, just in the higher tiers. Plasma Cannon :3 Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
The Dark Cloud Negative-Feedback. 4221	Posted - 2015.03.29 23:28:00 - [3] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: You will be able to use them in pubs, just in the higher tiers. Tiers? Like what? FW? Yeah good luck with that. Tell that the apex buyers they will burn you like a witch. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
Nirwanda Vaughns 1588	Posted - 2015.03.29 23:29:00 - [4] - Quote if only there was a way CCP could lower the meta level of the APEX suits to allow them to be used! Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 3111	Posted - 2015.03.29 23:31:00 - [5] - Quote The Dark Cloud wrote: LUGMOS wrote: You will be able to use them in pubs, just in the higher tiers. Tiers? Like what? FW? Yeah good luck with that. Tell that the apex buyers they will burn you like a witch. Oh, so you want to use a suit that is clearly better than standard and is completely free in a standard meta environment? Tell that to people who want balanced matches and they'll burn you like a witch. Plasma Cannon :3 Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Dreis Shadowweaver Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 2419	Posted - 2015.03.29 23:34:00 - [6] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: if only there was a way CCP could lower the meta level of the APEX suits to allow them to be used! Exactly, CCP could simply reduce the number. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3 I'm a monster
Jonny D Buelle Mors Effera 779	Posted - 2015.03.29 23:36:00 - [7] - Quote Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: if only there was a way CCP could lower the meta level of the APEX suits to allow them to be used! Exactly, CCP could simply reduce the number. Thing, as Lugmos, pointed out if they are brought into MLT and Basic matches they will wreck. So how about putting them into ADV matches. I find your lack of heaviness... disturbing...
Vicious Minotaur 2246	Posted - 2015.03.29 23:37:00 - [8] - Quote I don't math good, but I seem to recall some bits and pieces of some maths that include: - Addition - Subtraction - Division - Multiplication I also seem to recall using the above concepts in conjunction with numbers to determine: - Mean - Median - Mode Obviously, me no math, so combining things and making equations or other black magic is clearly impossible. So, in conclusion, the only way to look at meta lockout is via addition, exclusively. I am a minotaur. a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 3539	Posted - 2015.03.29 23:40:00 - [9] - Quote It is a super slippery slope. It comes down to what the meta levels are. If a Standard Suit with Advanced Shield or Armor modules is just barely enough to get into the lowest standard, then an APEX suit isn't that bad. However, if it is "ONLY STANDARD GEAR" then the APEX suit has a clear advantage in those Tiers. A Suit with 9 modules that are Standard is going to be better than a Suit with 4 modules that are Standard. Care has to be taken. It is better for the APEX suits to be in a higher tier rather than a lower one. Of course, there is also the fact that CCP sold these damn things as "are you getting kicked into the dirt? Grab these!" and the Tier level will accomplish the same thing for 'not 30 bucks.' "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
The Dark Cloud Negative-Feedback. 4221	Posted - 2015.03.29 23:44:00 - [10] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: The Dark Cloud wrote: LUGMOS wrote: You will be able to use them in pubs, just in the higher tiers. Tiers? Like what? FW? Yeah good luck with that. Tell that the apex buyers they will burn you like a witch. Oh, so you want to use a suit that is clearly better than standard and is completely free in a standard meta environment? Tell that to people who want balanced matches and they'll burn you like a witch. i dont have any apex suits. Just find this little fact hillarious. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.

Nirwanda Vaughns 1588	Posted - 2015.03.29 23:49:00 - [11] - Quote tbh for the past 18months i've been suggesting a sec status based choice that determines what grade of equipment can be used and its nice ot CCP actually considerign something similar. as the game is at the moment though i don't think they should be restricting matches so severely. there simply isn't enough playerbase and seeign as the proto stompoing tryhards are the only ones that play frequently, they'll be running in the higher tier games meaning that the few guys left over in the lower tiers will take forever to get into games and in the end we'll just be forced to either goto the proto tier or leave the game, and honestly. players will simply just leave the game. With the current player count i'd suggest the other option i gave out months ago too which was what i called 'Academy+' its a seperate game mode where both noobs and vets can go into as a trainer pool for noobs where meta level is locked at MLT/STD gear. that way regular pubs can continue as is and when folk fancy a break they can just jump into Academy+ and kick back without the excessive stomping without restricting search options too much Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution 476	Posted - 2015.03.30 00:03:00 - [12] - Quote The Dark Cloud wrote: LUGMOS wrote: The Dark Cloud wrote: LUGMOS wrote: You will be able to use them in pubs, just in the higher tiers. Tiers? Like what? FW? Yeah good luck with that. Tell that the apex buyers they will burn you like a witch. Oh, so you want to use a suit that is clearly better than standard and is completely free in a standard meta environment? Tell that to people who want balanced matches and they'll burn you like a witch. i dont have any apex suits. Just find this little fact hillarious. I think by tiers he meant there'd a few pub meta lockout levels, maybe 3 for example meta level lockout of 50 would be mlt to standard, then another mode with meta lockout 90 which would be for apex suits to adv, then an unlimited 1 for full proto.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 8900	Posted - 2015.03.30 00:10:00 - [13] - Quote I didn't realize that meta locked modes were already in place and their meta locked levels already given for you to make the assumption. Would you care to post where that information is? Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 11288	Posted - 2015.03.30 00:21:00 - [14] - Quote I see what you mean. If we're going to separate players in pub matches based on the gear that the have, it will have to be based on the max allowable meta level (in terms of sum) instead of tier. It's easier that way, allows for flexibility of the fittings in that match and it doesn't allow certain suits (APEX or their Faction Warfare variants) to be able to circumvent the system. EDIT: Just ask yourself. Do anyone really need an APEX suit in a low-meta match where most suits are likely to be weak and cheap that perhaps a MLT fit can do better anyways? Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 11288	Posted - 2015.03.30 00:30:00 - [15] - Quote Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: The Dark Cloud wrote: LUGMOS wrote: The Dark Cloud wrote: LUGMOS wrote: You will be able to use them in pubs, just in the higher tiers. Tiers? Like what? FW? Yeah good luck with that. Tell that the apex buyers they will burn you like a witch. Oh, so you want to use a suit that is clearly better than standard and is completely free in a standard meta environment? Tell that to people who want balanced matches and they'll burn you like a witch. i dont have any apex suits. Just find this little fact hillarious. I think by tiers he meant there'd a few pub meta lockout levels, maybe 3 for example meta level lockout of 50 would be mlt to standard, then another mode with meta lockout 90 which would be for apex suits to adv, then an unlimited 1 for full proto. You know, I wonder. What would be the max sums of the meta levels for low-level, medium-level, and high-level matches? Which fittings would we base the max meta levels on? Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5614	Posted - 2015.03.30 00:41:00 - [16] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: if only there was a way CCP could lower the meta level of the APEX suits to allow them to be used! Shhhhh you'll distract people from getting upset about numbers in a system that doesn't exist yet. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Archduke Ferd1nand Nos Nothi 317	Posted - 2015.03.30 01:10:00 - [17] - Quote If they have a max total meta level vs. max avg meta level, Im going to be very, very upset. Avg. meta level makes it so that logis aren't screwed over, and sentinels don't become completely spammed. AVG meta level restriction number wise should be ~4, which is pretty much a full ADV fit suit. BRB, looking for socks Asslut Rifles OP, anal now I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 11288	Posted - 2015.03.30 01:12:00 - [18] - Quote Archduke Ferd1nand wrote: If they have a max total meta level vs. max avg meta level, Im going to be very, very upset. Avg. meta level makes it so that logis aren't screwed over, and sentinels don't become completely spammed. AVG meta level restriction number wise should be ~4, which is pretty much a full ADV fit suit. Let's assume that using an average is the right way to do it. What would you recommend as the baseline average of the meta level for lockout? Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 19263	Posted - 2015.03.30 02:02:00 - [19] - Quote There is a reason matchmaking is being worked on first. Meta level lockout for me is a choice for me to say "low risk low reward", choose a low metalevel bracket (low sec if academy is high sec), and free for all is 0.0 with Planetary Conquest. Meta level lockout as designed was a sum of all fittings approach, not "STD gear only" approach, also for a reason. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 11292	Posted - 2015.03.30 02:31:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is a reason matchmaking is being worked on first. Meta level lockout for me is a choice for me to say "low risk low reward", choose a low metalevel bracket (low sec if academy is high sec), and free for all is 0.0 with Planetary Conquest. Meta level lockout as designed was a sum of all fittings approach, not "STD gear only" approach, also for a reason. Interesting. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy

Archduke Ferd1nand Nos Nothi 319	Posted - 2015.03.30 02:44:00 - [21] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Archduke Ferd1nand wrote: If they have a max total meta level vs. max avg meta level, Im going to be very, very upset. Avg. meta level makes it so that logis aren't screwed over, and sentinels don't become completely spammed. AVG meta level restriction number wise should be ~4, which is pretty much a full ADV fit suit. Let's assume that using an average is the right way to do it. What would you recommend as the baseline average of the meta level for lockout? Right in my post. 3.5 would be a fairly good avg. for the typical pub, which allows for a fully fit ADV suit, or ADV suit with some proto mods but basic weapons, etc. BRB, looking for socks Asslut Rifles OP, anal now I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 11293	Posted - 2015.03.30 02:49:00 - [22] - Quote Archduke Ferd1nand wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Archduke Ferd1nand wrote: If they have a max total meta level vs. max avg meta level, Im going to be very, very upset. Avg. meta level makes it so that logis aren't screwed over, and sentinels don't become completely spammed. AVG meta level restriction number wise should be ~4, which is pretty much a full ADV fit suit. Let's assume that using an average is the right way to do it. What would you recommend as the baseline average of the meta level for lockout? Right in my post. 3.5 would be a fairly good avg. for the typical pub, which allows for a fully fit ADV suit, or ADV suit with some proto mods but basic weapons, etc. Thanks. I completely missed that part of the post. Sorry. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2601	Posted - 2015.03.30 02:50:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is a reason matchmaking is being worked on first. Meta level lockout for me is a choice for me to say "low risk low reward", choose a low metalevel bracket (low sec if academy is high sec), and free for all is 0.0 with Planetary Conquest. Meta level lockout as designed was a sum of all fittings approach, not "STD gear only" approach, also for a reason. Personally like +ú (ml)-¦ for reasons. PSN: RationalSpark
Imp Smash molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 753	Posted - 2015.03.30 03:05:00 - [24] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: The Dark Cloud wrote: LUGMOS wrote: You will be able to use them in pubs, just in the higher tiers. Tiers? Like what? FW? Yeah good luck with that. Tell that the apex buyers they will burn you like a witch. Oh, so you want to use a suit that is clearly better than standard and is completely free in a standard meta environment? Tell that to people who want balanced matches and they'll burn you like a witch. Gotta agree with this one. Higher Meta on Apex makes sense as they are free and better than standard. But especially because they are free. Also, Archduke Ferd1nand wrote: If they have a max total meta level vs. max avg meta level, Im going to be very, very upset. Avg. meta level makes it so that logis aren't screwed over, and sentinels don't become completely spammed. AVG meta level restriction number wise should be ~4, which is pretty much a full ADV fit suit. I did not even consider that. But yes that is very insightful of you. I have to agree 100% as this makes too much sense to not do.
Sigourney Reever Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 99	Posted - 2015.03.30 05:52:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is a reason matchmaking is being worked on first. Meta level lockout for me is a choice for me to say "low risk low reward", choose a low metalevel bracket (low sec if academy is high sec), and free for all is 0.0 with Planetary Conquest. Meta level lockout as designed was a sum of all fittings approach, not "STD gear only" approach, also for a reason. All Pub Matches take place in New Eden's "High Security Space" (1.0 - 0.5) Academy Battles would be considered 1.0 security systems, where new Capsuleers are 'born', and relatively rare compared to the rest of "High Sec." also, Geography Always Matters in New Eden.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 23060	Posted - 2015.03.30 06:07:00 - [26] - Quote I'm not entirely unhappy with zero risk suits being less used. Gallente Guide "More like a ban farm amirite" - CCP Frame
hold that Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 727	Posted - 2015.03.30 06:13:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is a reason matchmaking is being worked on first. Meta level lockout for me is a choice for me to say "low risk low reward", choose a low metalevel bracket (low sec if academy is high sec), and free for all is 0.0 with Planetary Conquest. Meta level lockout as designed was a sum of all fittings approach, not "STD gear only" approach, also for a reason. i like the sound of that. low risk low reward. if any other way you'll just get the scrubs only playing low meta in order to squash new folk because that is where they will cycle into first or after academy.
LOOKMOM NOHANDS 409	Posted - 2015.03.30 07:17:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is a reason matchmaking is being worked on first. Meta level lockout for me is a choice for me to say "low risk low reward", choose a low metalevel bracket (low sec if academy is high sec), and free for all is 0.0 with Planetary Conquest. Meta level lockout as designed was a sum of all fittings approach, not "STD gear only" approach, also for a reason. I think that turning faction warfare into "hard mode" like it was originally meant to be would be a better start before meta lockouts. You will find that most of the player base does not want to just pro stomp all day. The issue is that PC battles only happen a couple of times a day tops and FW is all kinds of messed up. Make FW the place to go and you will see a lot of players jump over there.
G Clone Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2015.03.30 07:40:00 - [29] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Meta level lockout as designed was a sum of all fittings approach, not "STD gear only" approach, also for a reason. Can you clarify this further? If you take the sum of all parts in a fitting, aren't you likely to punish Logistics disproportionally? Also, such a setup, if I understood it correctly, still opens up for bringing e.g. Thale's Sniper Rifle into a match, as long as the rest of your gear is low-level enough. I'd definitely support the notion that a meta-lockout prohibits all gear over a given level (or locks out all fittings with such gear), specifically because of the existence of low-risk officer gear like Sniper Rifles.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5516	Posted - 2015.03.30 07:44:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is a reason matchmaking is being worked on first. Meta level lockout for me is a choice for me to say "low risk low reward", choose a low metalevel bracket (low sec if academy is high sec), and free for all is 0.0 with Planetary Conquest. Meta level lockout as designed was a sum of all fittings approach, not "STD gear only" approach, also for a reason. It will segregate your game, and kill your game. Fast. Your player base simply can't support multiple tiers like that. If you feel its necessary to limit proto suits to FW/PC only, go nuts. We're going to stomp on pub scrubs regardless, and it will accomplish nothing other than taking away freedom. "Protostomping" is a scapegoat for bad players being bad, and no matter what you do they will always be whiny victims getting stomped on. This won't please any of them because they will still be getting torn apart. It will, however, **** off the veterans. So have fun with that flawed ideology. Usually banned for being too awesome.



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