If anything the issue is large blasters being too efficient at killing infantry again. The upcoming fix to small blasters is needed. At that point I wouldn't mind being killed a lot by small blasters as it takes team work. As I understand it large blasters are meant to primarily be for AV, but since echo they are being used effecively for AI.

I don't want tanks to be easy to kill. But I don't want solo tankers to be too good at killing infantry.

Pro tank with pro small blaster, massacring any infantry in range and not cowering; that's what I want to see.

I perform AV and we all know the best counter to a tank in the current meta is another tank.

As it should be.

AV requires a whole team to focus fire down one clone in a tank and that ties down multiple clones to achieve that.

A whole team? What is that, at least the entirely of a laser strike in one second concentrated down to one point? All it takes is one YOLO scout throwing his YOLO AV grenades to chase off any tank. Might outright destroy a base HP shield tank if caught cold.

AV needs a buff, but the right AV is what needs a buff.

No, intelligence needs a buff, not AV. The answer for you people is always 'buff AV'. Heavy being a problem? Buff swarms. Can't hit a scout? Buff swarms. Scouts throwing REs half a football field and detonating them? Buff swarms.

They keep playing with swarms which is the biggest problem.

Would be nice if they would force you to use aim and remove them.

If they made Forge guns, plasma cannons, and Proxy REs the anti tank AV there would be 0 complaints from skilled tankers because they would understand that skill was required to take them down.

You couldn't possibly how few times people have actually used their brain to take me out.

Read the hulls post and you see they built tanks for tank to tank combat not tank to infantry.

Yeah, so AV should be nerfed so we can have actual tank battles without someone like you butting in and quickly deciding the victor. If he built tanks to fight other tanks, don't you think AV should take a background role?

Most tankers are just now getting deep into the hardners and seeing that they are OP stacked on proto vehicles. Plus the blaster buff was not smart for AI.

Rattati still wants the blaster to be AV. Those that have aim use it for AI. Then again, aim was replaced with luck because we were able to properly aim.

I agree with the 3 classes of tank post. I also have been pushing for solo tanks to lose control of their main cannon and become drivers if they are keeping tanks in their current armored LAV mode.

If that's the case, then a second person needs to take equipment out of a logi's pack. How does it sound having some fresh academy grad handling PRO gear?

They need a clear role in combat and a clear counter that is not another tank.

Again, tanks were designed around pounding each other into oblivion. Why should AV still be the best counter? Sounds to me either you don't have AV, or you're going against exceedingly intelligent pilots and are not able to solo a single one, nevermind all of them, because they use their vast experience to not get destroyed.

It shouldn't be easy, but no single player should be > any other single player. If one tanker always equals 2 AV, the balance is exponentially thrown off, and the meta becomes spam tanks. We have all seen it happen before.

This guy gets it. He is using all the tools in the box, and his brain, to engage an armored vehicle.

I wish his attitude would rub off on the crybabies.

Are you serious? So he has to basically run a dropsuit that is completely defenseless against infantry,

Commando suit has two light weapon slots. I used to have both Gallente and Minmatar - Minmando annihilates vehicles.

and then essentially commit suicide in front of the vehicle

If someone is stupid enough to run in front of a tank to launch their YOLO swarms and YOLO AV grenades, then they deserve to die every single time.

in the hopes that the tank driver is stupid enough to fall for the bait and run over proxies,

This happens maybe twice every 12 months. Players in corps where English isn't their first language have a far easier time destroying me, because they'll do whatever it takes, vs people getting on the English forums and whining that they can't take out a tank while running in front of it screaming "voila snackbar!" and throwing their YOLO AV grenades.

and you think that this expectation is fair and balanced gameplay?

Tanks should counter tanks. That's fair and balanced. Whose fault is it you have absolutely 0 SP invested in vehicles? Certainly not my fault. Then again, you'd complain that it's too hard to kill infantry and other tanks in your own tank, but you absolutely won't mention your complete lack of experience in a tank.

In the mean time if the tanker isnt an idiot and just chooses to use the main turret's dominant range advantage

Railgun and missile require a direct shot, blaster is down to luck and a tiny bit of aim. What dominant range? If I snipe you with my railgun, it was your fault for staying still.

or just ignores the AV'er and move on, the AV player is literally useless. How do you think this is ok?

It's called moving away from a bad spot. You're essentially complaining that you can't solo a tank in 2 seconds, which is at it should be.

Then you paint everyone who doesnt accept this bend over and take it view of the AV role as crybabies,

Yet pilots are supposed to and have been bending over for more than 3 years due to infantry complaining.

like its unreasonable and childish to expect the anti vehicle role to be able to kill vehicles, yes, even when they arent driven by people with less than two brain cells!

Lots of infantry have less than two brains, because they'll keep trying to take out expert pilots using teamwork and failing every time. I suppose you think it's OP that pilots use teamwork, and that that needs to be nerfed.

Stay classy.

I love how, for years, the answer has been to nerf vehicles and buff AV. It has happened a bunch of times, and each time required time and resources spent on vehicles and AV when it could've gone to ironing out more bugs and creating more content.j

I dont have a problem with tanks being able to slaughter infantry as long as its possible to fight back, right now it isnt.

That's why we need variations to the tanks added (A Destroyer, a middleman and a Juggernaut). Having just these three variants would make it a much more complex game and cause both AV and enemy tanks to adjust their strategy in order to combat said tanks.

words of wisdom

AV does not require a whole team to focus fire.

Exactly

A single player, in a BPO suit, in a BPO LAV, with just the bare minimum of SP into demolitions can destroy any tank by touching it. As long as the don't drive right at the tank, they don't even have to tank the LAV at all.

The epitome of EZ, no risk all reward BS.

A single player, using those same demolitions skills can lay a set of proxy mines, carry a PLC and some AV nades and destroy a tank.

Timing and thinking is OP, nerf timing and thinking.

This myth that you need a team of AV to drop a tank is perpetuated by bad players who refuse to even consider the idea that you might actually have to not suck to tackle a tank by yourself.

Agreed - they assume you need the entirety of a laser concentrated into two seconds focused on a single point to take out a tank.

But no, lets cater to the lowest common denominator

That has been the problem since tanks were introduced.

AV needs a buff? No, av players need some understanding that I as a tanker am working very hard to not get into their wheelhouse, while still needing to be map away enough to not get JLAV'd while keeping my eyes peeled for dropships to make sure I have enough time to get to cover if I need to, while also making sure that I am actually being productive for my team.

The ability to multitask is OP, nerf the ability to multitask.

All the AV has to do, in their mind, is spawn in an AV suit and I should explode.

[i]That, or run away in fear and recall at the sight of *MLT Anti-Armor CA*.

1. They want balance? HAH
2. So much bull, they come out with' SP/ISK shouldn't be a balancing factor' as there excuse for a 2. 5mil SP 60k AV fit being able to solo a 1.2mil ISK HAV fit with 30mil SP into it.
3. Then it is always '1 player to 1 player' yet they stay quiet when i have 3 players in the HAV and 1 can solo it.
4.Don't mention the swarm launcher and the various bugs with it in which makes it the OP weapon of the game for the last 3 years and still has not been fixed yet is still the most popular AV weapon.
5. The JLAV still exists and can one shot any HAV no matter what build.
6. AV nades have 1 more nade and lai dai will wreck in less than 3seconds and that is what a x3 skill and costs 20k?
7. ADS got nerfed and swarms got buffed because they 'could fly away' from AV, it has no lock on warning, no countermeasures, not enough HP to tank mulitiple AV sources yet AV complained and yet again CCP catered to them and buffed the already easy mode swarms.
8. AV doesn't have to deal with other infantry when they are on top of a tower or building just camping, commandos have a light weapon, AV nades require 1 nade slot, PLC can kill infantry and a FG can too. So much for being defenceless.

A tank moves when it is being hit with too much AV, woe is me, #1st world problems. Tough. CCP has nerfed reps/boosters/base hp/extenders/plates/skills and skill bonuses which all lead to having a vehicle with less PG/CPU to fit on nerfed mods all because AV complain.

When it comes to AV proto isn't a big boost. If you are smart or/and experienced enough than advanced AV gear is perfectly enough in pub games. Its just dosn't worth the risk to lose the proto AV gear (ISK wise) because its not boost your performance enough.

1. My reply was to a discussion about someone fitting out a min logi as AV, not min commando.

You were complaining about someone having no defense against infantry. Absolutely nobody forced the guy to use a Min logi as AV, it was a conscious decision to use a suit with no sidearm slot to try to tackle a tank.

2. I do have a vehicle alt and there is virtually no effort involved in killing infantry, and indeed no effort involved in killing gunnlogis now when Im in the madruger.

So that tells me you go against teams that have no skilled and no skilled tanks. Lucky for you, I get shafted all the time.

3. Im not talking about soloing tanks in 2 seconds, Im talking about the madruger being killable at all.

It is able to be destroyed, just that it shouldn't be able to be soloed by a scout shouting out YOLO while throwing nuclear baseballs.

4. AV cant be buffed right now, because dropships are on a knife edge already. Madruger is completely nuts right now and its unkillable and needs to be nerfed.

Rattati spent I'm sure a few months working on vehicles. Why would he essentially erase some of that time and effort to nerf tanks just because some bad people can't solo armor tanks anymore? AV should never again receive a buff. It's been buffed countless times, and infantry still complained that they couldn't solo a tank without needing to reload. Pilots have told infantry many times how to destroy us, but none of them took our advice and said "it shouldn't be that hard, I shouldn't have to wait, I shouldn't have to use proper positioning, boo hoo."

Let me turn that around on the OP...

Why should a solo AV NOT be able to kill an HAV?

Let me turn that around on the OP...

Why should a solo AV NOT be able to kill an HAV?

They want balance? HAH

So much bull, they come out with' SP/ISK shouldn't be a balancing factor' as there excuse for a 5mil SP 60k AV fit being able to solo a 1.2mil ISK HAV fit with 30mil SP into it.

Then it is always '1 player to 1 player' yet they stay quiet when i have 3 players in the HAV and 1 can solo it.

Don't mention the swarm launcher and the various bugs with it in which makes it the OP weapon of the game for the last 3 years and still has not been fixed yet is still the most popular AV weapon.

The JLAV still exists and can one shot any HAV no matter what build.

AV nades have 1 more nade and lai dai will wreck in less than 3seconds and that is what a x3 skill and costs 20k?

ADS got nerfed and swarms got buffed because they 'could fly away' from AV, it has no lock on warning, no countermeasures, not enough HP to tank mulitiple AV sources yet AV complained and yet again CCP catered to them and buffed the already easy mode swarms.


AV doesn't have to deal with other infantry when they are on top of a tower or building just camping, commandos have a light weapon, AV nades require 1 nade slot, PLC can kill infantry and a FG can too. So much for being defenceless.


A tank moves when it is being hit with too much AV, woe is me, #1st world problems. Tough. CCP has nerfed reps/boosters/base hp/extenders/plates/skills and skill bonuses which all lead to having a vehicle with less PG/CPU to fit on nerfed mods all because AV complain.

All because AV cannot work together and are consistantly camping on a roof trying to solo something with swarms.


Does AV really want to battle a slow moving behemoth HAV which may have 15k+ HP and enough slots to have decent fits and variety and be a moving fortress? No because it would be too hard for them, it would actually require teamwork, it would not be instant gratification.


61mil SP into vehicles and i could do more for cheaper if i was infantry.


Disclaimer:

The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514

Should I or should I not let only the OP answer it...

Screw it

Native English speakers on here are the most spoiled I've ever seen on a game forum. If they can't solo a tank without needing to reload, then the tank needs to be nerfed and the AV needs to be buffed.

I really, really want someone to get sick of infantry crying all the time, say "HTFU," and say with finality that AV will never again get buffed.

Well based off of the concept of Risk vs Reward which is what a large majority of Dust is based off a 100k suit shouldn't be able to take down a 800k+ Vehicle by himself/herself given that the driver knows how to fit his/her vehicle and knows how to drive it.

However there is also a disposition between the needing of skill and the ability to point hold a button and release compared to operating modules at specific time and being able to properly engage and disengage targets...

Does that answer your question friend? :D

We are trying to have a constructive conversation here. Every respectable player just wants balance at this point in the game.

A good AV character can easily cost 30 mil sp. Think about weapons, proficiency, nades, core upgrades, equipments, and the suit itself. Furthermore, while an AV suit may indeed be cheaper, they will also die many times trying to take down tanks. That's good and fine with me. However let not kid ourselves, a proto tank with a good pilot can roll around dominating the field with little resistance. Part of this is the large blaster being too good at AI again, like someone else said.

The ADS is a little weak, however they are still very effective at killing. In a competitive environment they can be a huge issue for ground troops and require an AV man to keep it away. That 1 player neutralizing 1 player, balance.

I'm not going to address all your comments but I'll finish with yes, I'd rather see HAVs being a slow moving fortress. I saw an interesting post the other day that proposed new modules for tanks to support infantry. These included a nanite cluster which healed nearby infantry or supplied ammo. Couple this with mcrus and we have a new interactive dynamic between AV and vehicles. Part of the reason the two are so hard to balance is because they are so polarized, I. E. Very different playstyles and mindsets with little connection.

All it takes is a garbage suit, level 3 in core fitting, and level 5 in swarms to keep any vehicle at bay. A pittance in SP.

From what I've been reading a lot of AV players think that an HAV should be easily solo'd. Why is that? I mean I've been wondering why people want tanks to be pieces of paper for a while.

I may sound like a bit of a vehicle supremacist but I've but nearly all of my SP into them so that'd make sense. However I still have proto AV, I enjoy running in a dropsuit as well... I just don't complain when I can't solo a tank with my AV fit...


Just curious, please post responses in a critical manner :D thank you and have a nice day

I'm speccing into swarms soon and I have no delusions about being able to 'solo' a Madrugar with a blaster pointed at my face.

What I do think I can do, though, is run a Minmatar logistics suit with swarms, AV nades, nanohives, and various proxies, and bait the tank into fighting me and running over those proxies, eating mouthfuls of AV nades, and swarms.

As mentioned above, an unskilled tanker will most likely fall for it, a skilled tanker will watch me jump around and maybe wait until I make a mistake and blap me, or move on and leave me useless to my team.

It's not perfect, but tanks are very close to that sweet spot of balance where it requires skill to differentiate good tankers from bad, and similarly, good AV users will be able to get the drop on tankers, whilst bad ones will just die as they try again and again, frustrated as to why they can't look down the barrel of an ion cannon, break through hundreds of millimetres of armour plating, and get away without any enemy infantry shooting them down in the mean time.

On the other hand, my dropships are swatted from the sky like they're annoying flies. I swerve, I dive, I spiral, even when I'm shooting in my ADS I try to be slowly rotating around my target, but I can't dodge swarms, and whenever I slow to drop off passengers or target an enemy, I become a juicy point farm for any AV user with at least one eye and a hand on the controller.

The assault dropships I understand have to be a little flimsy, but the transport dropships are barely tougher, and require at least 2 people to have any real offensive capability, so should they not require two people to take down? Even then, the gunner is immobile and an easy hit for all those long range rifles.

Don't mean to hijack the OP, just venting after a particularly painful set of dropship losses.

Let me turn that around on the OP...

Why should a solo AV NOT be able to kill an HAV?

Let me turn that around on the OP...

Why should a solo AV NOT be able to kill an HAV?