DUST Search - Tweaking Swarm Launcher parameters

Apocalyptic Destroyer wrote:

Juno Tristan wrote:

Stefan Stahl wrote:

Juno Tristan wrote:

I am concerned that there could be 3 sets of swarms in the air before I know they're incoming, but if swarmers have to face the target when firing it could increase the time between the 1st and 2nd volleys.

Could you model 2 swarmers in the new versus current setup? I wouldn't want that ttk to increase

With a single Swarmer those suggested numbers shouldn't change anything about how much damage you have to tank if you decide to flee. Two swarmers (right next to each other) firing at a hovering DS would also behave the same under the new and current speed parameters. You will eat at least 4 volleys of Swarms if you AB away after the first impact. So no change there.

During one of the posted catmaDB dumps it was revealed that Swarm Launchers appear to have a parameter that dictates how far away you can look from a target after lock on before said lock is lost. It's currently at 90-¦. On top of that there was a parameter that appears to dictate how quickly the lock is lost after the first criteria is struck, which is at "1.0" if I remember correctly - I interpreted it as seconds when I read it. Fumbling with those parameters would surely help make SLs more logical to operate.
I'm sorry but I don't have a link to that source right now. Maybe somebody else knows what I'm referring to.

That assumes people use an AB, (and I understand that is the meta) but I don't think it should be something we base future proposals on

If you ignore the whole 'killed by the redline' thing this video explains what I mean, quicker swarms would mean they would have killed me as I'm using the reps over the distance travelled

Against 2 swarmers

The only way to evade swarms is with an AB. That's another problem I find is that both Dropships, the Incubus and Python must use an afterburner. So in reality the incubus only has 3 Lows and the Python 3 Highs. With the python you're even more restricted because you have to use a PG upgrade

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1104	Posted - 2015.04.12 12:04:00 - [31] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Can you explain why you think swarms need to be changed? The only time ADSs die is if they sit there too long. As Kaeru said it's really about being Swarms vs. vehicles being more fun than "be unkillable if you hit the AB quick enough or be doomed if you hit it too late". I'd like there to be more options and this suggestion aims to introduce some fringe cases where you might be able to dodge missiles. The above suggestion only allows dodging in a limited amount of scenarios. You never have to dodge, you can also just run away after the impact as we currently do. As such I don't think this will change the Swarms vs ADS balance at all. The aim is rather to see whether we can make dodging missiles a thing. If that works out we can then - in a second stage - think about things like increasing SL range while further reducing SL maneuverability so ADS can be threatened by SLs at a great range but are unlikely to be killed by them. That's actually how Forgeguns work and it's much better gameplay than SLs are right now. A Forgegun could potentially kill you at up to 300 meters if you're a stupid pilot, but if you keep moving it will barely scratch you. With a SL right now no amount of pilot skill will keep you alive as long as you are within lock-on range. That's what I'd like to change. Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Also Stefan, check my first post where I asked a specific question, I'd be very interested in hearing your answer. Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Imagine the world of Dust514 as it was intended. This includes VTOL jets as well as bikes and bipedal exoskeletons, all of which were planned at the beginning. If we had all of that, do you think it would make sense for the dropship to be able to dodge the swarms meant to catch up to, and destroy, the jets? I originally skipped this question because it's extremely speculative. But since you seem to have an interest, here are my two cents: 1. A current day ADS with the AB on is already pretty nippy. At an acceleration of 12 m/s-¦ it takes an ADS 2.3 sec to accelerate from 0-100 km/h in any horizontal direction. Any vehicle that accelerates much faster than that will really stretch the player's suspension of disbelief as it'd look - quite frankly - ridiculous. Thus I don't think there'd be weapons that are effective against ADS with AB but ineffective against jets. 2. The less the number of categories of weapons the better. What I mean by that is that it wouldn't be enjoyable to have anti-scout guns, anti-medium guns and anti-heavy guns on our dropsuits with each being ineffective towards the other types. In a similar vein it wouldn't be fun to have anti HAV weapons, anti DS weapons and anti jet weapons. While it could be made to make sense from a lore perspective I really think gameplay trumps lore in such questions. On the general topic though, I'd like to make some further suggestions on Swarm parameters, but I can't validate whether my model is correct, so I don't know whether the effort would be worth it. Most importantly I still don't know whether swarm missile maneuverability is actually measured in -¦/sec. I assume so, but at this point I can't continue until I know. If anyone had any pointers towards that, that'd be great.
Apocalyptic Destroyer L.O.T.I.S. 452	Posted - 2015.04.30 03:22:00 - [32] - Quote Bump because swarms are he'll of annoying right now. Something seriously needs to be done. True Amarr In Disguise Pain is Weakness Leaving the Body. In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 430	Posted - 2015.04.30 13:47:00 - [33] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: I don't think the proposal that is being made is really about increasing the survivability of drop ships so much as it is about making the struggle between a dropship and a swarmer more interactive. I think this point is often confused: it is not a struggle between a dropship and a swarmer, it is between a dropship and it's teammates and a swarmer and it's teammates - there is a distinct difference. As an avid swarmer, I am far too frequently killed by an infantry mate of my DS target while I am distracted. I have no AB or SH option to escape a shotgun to the head from a Scout. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 430	Posted - 2015.04.30 14:11:00 - [34] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: With a SL right now no amount of pilot skill will keep you alive as long as you are within lock-on range. You had me until this statement. This is just not true when referring to a SINGLE swarmer. If referring to multiple swarmers, then yes... But do not skew the issue. As a solo swarmer, I can reliably get two volleys in the air before a DS inevitably hits it's hardeners (after the first volley hits) and flys away, regens and returns. The battle generally continues as a stalemate until the DS screws up, another swarmer joins, or I receive a shotgun to the head. Additionally, if there are taller structures around, a DS can also try to scrub missiles by ducking around a building - which seem fairly magnetic, in my opinion. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1140	Posted - 2015.04.30 17:31:00 - [35] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: With a SL right now no amount of pilot skill will keep you alive as long as you are within lock-on range. [...]As a solo swarmer, I can reliably get two volleys in the air before a DS inevitably hits it's hardeners (after the first volley hits) and flys away, regens and returns.[...] With "as long as you are within lock-on range" I meant to imply "... and stay there". As in: Either you hit the magic AB-button early enough and always survive or don't and always lose. I don't think swarms are in any way too powerful against DS or ADS right now. They are just boring gameplay. Hence the above suggestion. Also, thanks to Mr. Apocalyptic Destroyer for the bump.
Apocalyptic Destroyer L.O.T.I.S. 455	Posted - 2015.04.30 17:45:00 - [36] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: I am concerned that there could be 3 sets of swarms in the air before I know they're incoming, but if swarmers have to face the target when firing it could increase the time between the 1st and 2nd volleys. Could you model 2 swarmers in the new versus current setup? I wouldn't want that ttk to increase With a single Swarmer those suggested numbers shouldn't change anything about how much damage you have to tank if you decide to flee. Two swarmers (right next to each other) firing at a hovering DS would also behave the same under the new and current speed parameters. You will eat at least 4 volleys of Swarms if you AB away after the first impact. So no change there. During one of the posted catmaDB dumps it was revealed that Swarm Launchers appear to have a parameter that dictates how far away you can look from a target after lock on before said lock is lost. It's currently at 90-¦. On top of that there was a parameter that appears to dictate how quickly the lock is lost after the first criteria is struck, which is at "1.0" if I remember correctly - I interpreted it as seconds when I read it. Fumbling with those parameters would surely help make SLs more logical to operate. I'm sorry but I don't have a link to that source right now. Maybe somebody else knows what I'm referring to. That assumes people use an AB, (and I understand that is the meta) but I don't think it should be something we base future proposals on If you ignore the whole 'killed by the redline' thing this video explains what I mean, quicker swarms would mean they would have killed me as I'm using the reps over the distance travelled Against 2 swarmers The only way to evade swarms is with an AB. That's another problem I find is that both Dropships, the Incubus and Python must use an afterburner. So in reality the incubus only has 3 Lows and the Python 3 Highs. With the python you're even more restricted because you have to use a PG upgrade True Amarr In Disguise Pain is Weakness Leaving the Body. In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.
Apocalyptic Destroyer L.O.T.I.S. 455	Posted - 2015.04.30 17:48:00 - [37] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: bogeyman m wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: With a SL right now no amount of pilot skill will keep you alive as long as you are within lock-on range. [...]As a solo swarmer, I can reliably get two volleys in the air before a DS inevitably hits it's hardeners (after the first volley hits) and flys away, regens and returns.[...] With "as long as you are within lock-on range" I meant to imply "... and stay there". As in: Either you hit the magic AB-button early enough and always survive or don't and always lose. I don't think swarms are in any way too powerful against DS or ADS right now. They are just boring gameplay. Hence the above suggestion. Also, thanks to Mr. Apocalyptic Destroyer for the bump. Not a problem. Me and Dead Cavino have been discussing Dropships and AV frequently now and have concluded that swarms are just ridiculously too fast. They get the third lock on too fast and not only that but there are restrictions as I mentioned above concerning the ADS. True Amarr In Disguise Pain is Weakness Leaving the Body. In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix RUST415 799	Posted - 2015.04.30 17:50:00 - [38] - Quote Apocalyptic Destroyer wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: I am concerned that there could be 3 sets of swarms in the air before I know they're incoming, but if swarmers have to face the target when firing it could increase the time between the 1st and 2nd volleys. Could you model 2 swarmers in the new versus current setup? I wouldn't want that ttk to increase With a single Swarmer those suggested numbers shouldn't change anything about how much damage you have to tank if you decide to flee. Two swarmers (right next to each other) firing at a hovering DS would also behave the same under the new and current speed parameters. You will eat at least 4 volleys of Swarms if you AB away after the first impact. So no change there. During one of the posted catmaDB dumps it was revealed that Swarm Launchers appear to have a parameter that dictates how far away you can look from a target after lock on before said lock is lost. It's currently at 90-¦. On top of that there was a parameter that appears to dictate how quickly the lock is lost after the first criteria is struck, which is at "1.0" if I remember correctly - I interpreted it as seconds when I read it. Fumbling with those parameters would surely help make SLs more logical to operate. I'm sorry but I don't have a link to that source right now. Maybe somebody else knows what I'm referring to. That assumes people use an AB, (and I understand that is the meta) but I don't think it should be something we base future proposals on If you ignore the whole 'killed by the redline' thing this video explains what I mean, quicker swarms would mean they would have killed me as I'm using the reps over the distance travelled Against 2 swarmers The only way to evade swarms is with an AB. That's another problem I find is that both Dropships, the Incubus and Python must use an afterburner. So in reality the incubus only has 3 Lows and the Python 3 Highs. With the python you're even more restricted because you have to use a PG upgrade How is having an instant out a problem? pythons and incubi need an extra slot each ( hhigh for the incubus and a low for the python) and more fitting room. That's the problem with ADSs not swarms or an afterburner.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8302	Posted - 2015.04.30 17:53:00 - [39] - Quote Faster swarm travel means more time between impacts to react oddly, But the faster the swarms, the less degrees-per-second turn radius they should have. at 85 m/s I'd actually recommend dropping the turn radius to 30 degrees/sec so that dodging the swarms is not only possible, but if a rebound shot is made by the warheads they don't get to pull it more than once. The warheads need to be seekers that home in on the target. they do NOT need to be boomerangs that come back multiple times for seconds and thirds. AV
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2916	Posted - 2015.04.30 19:48:00 - [40] - Quote Honestly I'm just adding my two cents after reading the surface of the thread (and not delving deeply into the numbers or connotations that they might have) but in its current form, I loathe the swarm launcher, the amount of player skill required to use it is practically non-existent. Now I certainly believe that there should be 'easier' options for av for some people, but with the swarm the vast majority of the work is done for you by the gun you just need to hold it on target for a little bit. What I would like to see is the swarm functioning like the plasma cannon with a dumbfire round bit a single change of 'if the swarm round gets to within $value meters of target, the projectile homes in like an AV grenade". Perhaps the values could be something like 25m for a standard swarm, and 40m for an assault swarm. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1505	Posted - 2015.04.30 19:51:00 - [41] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: What I would like to see is the swarm functioning like the plasma cannon with a dumbfire round bit a single change of 'if the swarm round gets to within $value meters of target, the projectile homes in like an AV grenade". Perhaps the values could be something like 25m for a standard swarm, and 40m for an assault swarm. MINA, these are the posts you're looking for! Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2917	Posted - 2015.04.30 19:54:00 - [42] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: What I would like to see is the swarm functioning like the plasma cannon with a dumbfire round bit a single change of 'if the swarm round gets to within $value meters of target, the projectile homes in like an AV grenade". Perhaps the values could be something like 25m for a standard swarm, and 40m for an assault swarm. MINA, these are the posts you're looking for! I've seen that thread and posted my idea independently as well. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1062	Posted - 2015.04.30 19:59:00 - [43] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Also Stefan, check my first post where I asked a specific question, I'd be very interested in hearing your answer. Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Imagine the world of Dust514 as it was intended. This includes VTOL jets as well as bikes and bipedal exoskeletons, all of which were planned at the beginning. If we had all of that, do you think it would make sense for the dropship to be able to dodge the swarms meant to catch up to, and destroy, the jets? I originally skipped this question because it's extremely speculative. But since you seem to have an interest, here are my two cents: 1. A current day ADS with the AB on is already pretty nippy. At an acceleration of 12 m/s-¦ it takes an ADS 2.3 sec to accelerate from 0-100 km/h in any horizontal direction. Any vehicle that accelerates much faster than that will really stretch the player's suspension of disbelief as it'd look - quite frankly - ridiculous. Thus I don't think there'd be weapons that are effective against ADS with AB but ineffective against jets. 2. The less the number of categories of weapons the better. What I mean by that is that it wouldn't be enjoyable to have anti-scout guns, anti-medium guns and anti-heavy guns on our dropsuits with each being ineffective towards the other types. In a similar vein it wouldn't be fun to have anti HAV weapons, anti DS weapons and anti jet weapons. While it could be made to make sense from a lore perspective I really think gameplay trumps lore in such questions. On the general topic though, I'd like to make some further suggestions on Swarm parameters, but I can't validate whether my model is correct, so I don't know whether the effort would be worth it. Most importantly I still don't know whether swarm missile maneuverability is actually measured in -¦/sec. I assume so, but at this point I can't continue until I know. If anyone had any pointers towards that, that'd be great. Forgive me, Stefan, allow me ask this again differently: Swarm launchers should be able to destroy jets. The dropship cannot maneuver like one. Is it "right" for dropships to have the means to dodge swarms, just because we will never get jets, in the game?? I'm all for function > lore, but I feel this falls out of tolerance. Just to make sure context isn't lost, I DO want to be able to dodge swarms, and in thinking about it for such a long time, this is the hardest question I've found to help justify the idea. EDIT: Apologies for the late response, my subscription notifier must've gotten flooded and I failed to double check since my last post. Know what cannot be known.
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 438	Posted - 2015.04.30 22:13:00 - [44] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: bogeyman m wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: With a SL right now no amount of pilot skill will keep you alive as long as you are within lock-on range. [...]As a solo swarmer, I can reliably get two volleys in the air before a DS inevitably hits it's hardeners (after the first volley hits) and flys away, regens and returns.[...] With "as long as you are within lock-on range" I meant to imply "... and stay there". As in: Either you hit the magic AB-button early enough and always survive or don't and always lose. I don't think swarms are in any way too powerful against DS or ADS right now. They are just boring gameplay. Hence the above suggestion. Also, thanks to Mr. Apocalyptic Destroyer for the bump. Understood and agreed. A DS hanging around within lock range has no one to complain to but that Dude in the mirror. Regarding boring game play, us ground-based folk still need to keep and eye out for shotguns, "la-zors" and such... Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 438	Posted - 2015.04.30 22:20:00 - [45] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Faster swarm travel means more time between impacts to react oddly, But the faster the swarms, the less degrees-per-second turn radius they should have. at 85 m/s I'd actually recommend dropping the turn radius to 30 degrees/sec so that dodging the swarms is not only possible, but if a rebound shot is made by the warheads they don't get to pull it more than once. The warheads need to be seekers that home in on the target. they do NOT need to be boomerangs that come back multiple times for seconds and thirds. I would really like one of those boomerang swarms... That's Swarm Launcher Operations level 6, right? Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Apocalyptic Destroyer L.O.T.I.S. 456	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:05:00 - [46] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Faster swarm travel means more time between impacts to react oddly, But the faster the swarms, the less degrees-per-second turn radius they should have. at 85 m/s I'd actually recommend dropping the turn radius to 30 degrees/sec so that dodging the swarms is not only possible, but if a rebound shot is made by the warheads they don't get to pull it more than once. The warheads need to be seekers that home in on the target. they do NOT need to be boomerangs that come back multiple times for seconds and thirds. I would really like one of those boomerang swarms... That's Swarm Launcher Operations level 6, right? Actually Swarms go boomerang around your vehicle. It's a glitch. True Amarr In Disguise Pain is Weakness Leaving the Body. In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.
Apocalyptic Destroyer L.O.T.I.S. 482	Posted - 2015.05.07 18:07:00 - [47] - Quote Bump cause this thread has numbers and graphs and is constructive True Amarr In Disguise Pain is Weakness Leaving the Body. In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1086	Posted - 2015.05.08 01:52:00 - [48] - Quote Something sorely missed in feedback section ! Double bump. Know what cannot be known.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1099	Posted - 2015.05.09 11:40:00 - [49] - Quote @Rattati, hoping you are indeed still following this thread. Here are 3 videos showing swarm behavior, notice how the flight path gets updated at very "opportune" moments. Please help us out by telling us what the rotation speed value on the swarms means. please view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ketBHUqy-HE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVDmZCz_KzM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2JxcjwT5R8 Thank you for reading / watching !! Know what cannot be known.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8473	Posted - 2015.05.09 12:00:00 - [50] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Faster swarm travel means more time between impacts to react oddly, But the faster the swarms, the less degrees-per-second turn radius they should have. at 85 m/s I'd actually recommend dropping the turn radius to 30 degrees/sec so that dodging the swarms is not only possible, but if a rebound shot is made by the warheads they don't get to pull it more than once. The warheads need to be seekers that home in on the target. they do NOT need to be boomerangs that come back multiple times for seconds and thirds. I would really like one of those boomerang swarms... That's Swarm Launcher Operations level 6, right? Watch how swarms engage against vehicles when they miss. They literally flip-turn and accelerate back to the target they missed like a boomerang returning to sender. That is one of the actual issues with the weapon, and I have seen a dropship dodge the same four missiles three times in a row. Each time they came right back like a dog playing fetch. The missiles impacted despite the insane maneuvering. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!

Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1523	Posted - 2015.05.09 12:35:00 - [51] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: @Rattati, hoping you are indeed still following this thread. Here are 3 videos showing swarm behavior, notice how the flight path gets updated at very "opportune" moments. Please help us out by telling us what the rotation speed value on the swarms means. please view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ketBHUqy-HE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVDmZCz_KzM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2JxcjwT5R8 Thank you for reading / watching !! Good examples Kaeru. Mr Rattati, please watch. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1133	Posted - 2015.05.11 20:57:00 - [52] - Quote Thanks for the vouch, Kallas! Break'n I think those 3 vids will interest you as well, take a look ! Know what cannot be known.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 436	Posted - 2015.05.11 23:11:00 - [53] - Quote soo after a lot of forum posts, can we safely conclude that we need to have a threat matrix system for the dropship? I.E some sort of indication where a shot is coming from before it hits you... after all, infantry are tiny from the sky and dropships are huge from the ground "If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22312	Posted - 2015.05.12 10:00:00 - [54] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: P.S.: You actually read that? I did, and this is my favorite post of the month. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8654	Posted - 2015.05.12 10:05:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: P.S.: You actually read that? I did, and this is my favorite post of the month. I don't actually understand a lot of the mechanics utilized in swarm tracking. Could you elaborate on why you like this thread and break what you found useful down shotgun style? Even with everything in the past there's a lot of misconceptions about swarms. I find myself having to correct a previously held viewpoint on them at least once a month. Does this post help you proceed forward with swarms somehow? C'mon rattati, share! We like you more when you share than when you're all coy. So come on. Expose yourself. Full Frontal Nerdity. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1175	Posted - 2015.05.12 11:07:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: P.S.: You actually read that? I did, and this is my favorite post of the month. Of which month? March, April, or May? Humor aside - if you'd like more detailed feedback please give us more technical info on how swarm missiles (and the launchers) work. Most importantly (to me): What is swarm missile turn rate? Degrees/second? Radians/frame? Flips/pancake?
Apocalyptic Destroyerr Shining Flame Amarr Empire 59	Posted - 2015.05.12 13:20:00 - [57] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: P.S.: You actually read that? I did, and this is my favorite post of the month. Success !!!!!!!!!!!! \o/
Imp Smash Molon Labe. RUST415 834	Posted - 2015.05.12 23:31:00 - [58] - Quote Like plus friendly bump. Great post OP.
Apocalyptic Destroyerr Shining Flame Amarr Empire 353	Posted - 2015.06.16 16:57:00 - [59] - Quote I think I'll bump this OP thread ! =ƒÿÄ
Jenni Welsh Reincarnation Incorporated 2	Posted - 2015.06.16 21:59:00 - [60] - Quote The swarm debate has raged on endlessly... Question, has anyone proposed maybe making the Swarm Launcher a Anti-Air only weapon??? (Yes this would hurt 2 of my characters and a ton of my suits by quite a bit, but honestly the Plasma Cannon is only very good at taking out ground targets anyway and that leaves the Forge Gun and vehicles as the only ones able to do both but at the cost of either speed and a light weapon or ISK respectively.) Well, anybody???



Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014