DUST Search - Tweaking Swarm Launcher parameters

Stefan Stahl wrote:

Kaeru Nayiri wrote:

Also Stefan, check my first post where I asked a specific question, I'd be very interested in hearing your answer.

Kaeru Nayiri wrote:

Imagine the world of Dust514 as it was intended. This includes VTOL jets as well as bikes and bipedal exoskeletons, all of which were planned at the beginning. If we had all of that, do you think it would make sense for the dropship to be able to dodge the swarms meant to catch up to, and destroy, the jets?

I originally skipped this question because it's extremely speculative. But since you seem to have an interest, here are my two cents:
1. A current day ADS with the AB on is already pretty nippy. At an acceleration of 12 m/s-¦ it takes an ADS 2.3 sec to accelerate from 0-100 km/h in any horizontal direction. Any vehicle that accelerates much faster than that will really stretch the player's suspension of disbelief as it'd look - quite frankly - ridiculous. Thus I don't think there'd be weapons that are effective against ADS with AB but ineffective against jets.
2. The less the number of categories of weapons the better. What I mean by that is that it wouldn't be enjoyable to have anti-scout guns, anti-medium guns and anti-heavy guns on our dropsuits with each being ineffective towards the other types. In a similar vein it wouldn't be fun to have anti HAV weapons, anti DS weapons and anti jet weapons. While it could be made to make sense from a lore perspective I really think gameplay trumps lore in such questions.

On the general topic though, I'd like to make some further suggestions on Swarm parameters, but I can't validate whether my model is correct, so I don't know whether the effort would be worth it. Most importantly I still don't know whether swarm missile maneuverability is actually measured in -¦/sec. I assume so, but at this point I can't continue until I know. If anyone had any pointers towards that, that'd be great.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 697	Posted - 2015.03.18 05:42:00 - [1] - Quote Absolutely great work Stefan. I commend you in your efforts on this topic. Just like many others, I have wanted the ability to scrub (that is the term) missiles since I took to the sky. In the last months though, after many threads on the topic, I've sort of accepted that it wouldn't happen. Seeing you go through all this gives me new hope, though, and for that I am grateful to you. Now for a little test of spirit: Imagine the world of Dust514 as it was intended. This includes VTOL jets as well as bikes and bipedal exoskeletons, all of which were planned at the beginning. If we had all of that, do you think it would make sense for the dropship to be able to dodge the swarms meant to catch up to, and destroy, the jets? I am just curious and want an honestly thought out answer to help me suspend disbelief if this becomes a reality. Is the answer truly that -just- because we don't have jets, we're going to pretend the assault dropship is the fastest, most agile, airborn vehicle in the atmosphere? Regardless of how you answer the above, you get all my +1s for the wonderful thread. You really brought my hope back after I'd pretty much given up. Look forward to reading ! Know what cannot be known.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 697	Posted - 2015.03.18 05:50:00 - [2] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: [...] It'd be difficult to ask a DS pilot to maintain angular momentum towards SL launchers he doesn't even know exist yet, so this isn't something that's easy to implement. It'd be awesome in conjunction with directional launching though (shameless plug), as it'd make hitting near targets difficult and hitting far away targets comparatively easy - very good behavior for a Caldari AV weapon. I'm also giving you 48 hours to necro your own thread / remake it or else I will do it for you, because that is the best swarm launcher operation model I've seen so far suggested. I missed it the first time around. I honestly don't know why the swarm launcher wasn't designed to work that way off the bat, as the swarm launcher in similar games (starhawk, missile launcher and Homing Missile) work JUST as you describe there, and can indeed overshoot. The downside to the idea, though, is a complete reprogramming of the weapon's behavior. Something we know is not to be taken lightly at this stage. Know what cannot be known.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 876	Posted - 2015.03.31 19:57:00 - [3] - Quote This idea is very well thought out and deserves some attention. Also Stefan, check my first post where I asked a specific question, I'd be very interested in hearing your answer. Know what cannot be known.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 882	Posted - 2015.04.01 20:34:00 - [4] - Quote I don't think the proposal that is being made is really about increasing the survivability of drop ships so much as it is about making the struggle between a dropship and a swarmer more interactive. Know what cannot be known.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1062	Posted - 2015.04.30 19:59:00 - [5] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Also Stefan, check my first post where I asked a specific question, I'd be very interested in hearing your answer. Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Imagine the world of Dust514 as it was intended. This includes VTOL jets as well as bikes and bipedal exoskeletons, all of which were planned at the beginning. If we had all of that, do you think it would make sense for the dropship to be able to dodge the swarms meant to catch up to, and destroy, the jets? I originally skipped this question because it's extremely speculative. But since you seem to have an interest, here are my two cents: 1. A current day ADS with the AB on is already pretty nippy. At an acceleration of 12 m/s-¦ it takes an ADS 2.3 sec to accelerate from 0-100 km/h in any horizontal direction. Any vehicle that accelerates much faster than that will really stretch the player's suspension of disbelief as it'd look - quite frankly - ridiculous. Thus I don't think there'd be weapons that are effective against ADS with AB but ineffective against jets. 2. The less the number of categories of weapons the better. What I mean by that is that it wouldn't be enjoyable to have anti-scout guns, anti-medium guns and anti-heavy guns on our dropsuits with each being ineffective towards the other types. In a similar vein it wouldn't be fun to have anti HAV weapons, anti DS weapons and anti jet weapons. While it could be made to make sense from a lore perspective I really think gameplay trumps lore in such questions. On the general topic though, I'd like to make some further suggestions on Swarm parameters, but I can't validate whether my model is correct, so I don't know whether the effort would be worth it. Most importantly I still don't know whether swarm missile maneuverability is actually measured in -¦/sec. I assume so, but at this point I can't continue until I know. If anyone had any pointers towards that, that'd be great. Forgive me, Stefan, allow me ask this again differently: Swarm launchers should be able to destroy jets. The dropship cannot maneuver like one. Is it "right" for dropships to have the means to dodge swarms, just because we will never get jets, in the game?? I'm all for function > lore, but I feel this falls out of tolerance. Just to make sure context isn't lost, I DO want to be able to dodge swarms, and in thinking about it for such a long time, this is the hardest question I've found to help justify the idea. EDIT: Apologies for the late response, my subscription notifier must've gotten flooded and I failed to double check since my last post. Know what cannot be known.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1086	Posted - 2015.05.08 01:52:00 - [6] - Quote Something sorely missed in feedback section ! Double bump. Know what cannot be known.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1099	Posted - 2015.05.09 11:40:00 - [7] - Quote @Rattati, hoping you are indeed still following this thread. Here are 3 videos showing swarm behavior, notice how the flight path gets updated at very "opportune" moments. Please help us out by telling us what the rotation speed value on the swarms means. please view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ketBHUqy-HE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVDmZCz_KzM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2JxcjwT5R8 Thank you for reading / watching !! Know what cannot be known.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1133	Posted - 2015.05.11 20:57:00 - [8] - Quote Thanks for the vouch, Kallas! Break'n I think those 3 vids will interest you as well, take a look ! Know what cannot be known.