Your DPS is misleading, as it takes longer than 1.05s to launch a volley, aside from that I'll wait until you're finished before commenting on the rest of your assertion.

Though the thought of consuming a Pilot is, interesting to say the least.

Your DPS is misleading, as it takes longer than 1.05s to launch a volley, aside from that I'll wait until you're finished before commenting on the rest of your assertion.

Though the thought of consuming a Pilot is, interesting to say the least.

Your DPS is misleading, as it takes longer than 1.05s to launch a volley, aside from that I'll wait until you're finished before commenting on the rest of your assertion.

Though the thought of consuming a Pilot is, interesting to say the least.

gibberish

gibberish

Good job, you completely missed the point of the thread.

This thread is not here to discuss "OMG SWARMS ARE OP AGAINST TANKS!"

It's to discuss the relative differences between non-commandos using AV, and Commandos using AV. Not how they perform against vehicles because all of those values will be changing anyways so right now its irrelevant. So please remain on-topic and hold your grievances above how AV balances against HAVs, because we're not talking about that right now.

---

Anyways.

So crunching the numbers for the Gallente Commando....its comical in that a Caldari Commando can actually do more DPS...not much, but a little more. As for how the Gallmando compares to say an Assault, the Alpha is again....nearly identical. Where it really shines is in the sustained DPS, primarily due to its reload speed.

As for the Minmatar Commando, it's really not that much different. The difference in alpha is really pretty close, around 5%, but the real gem is the sustained DPS...again because the reload shaves off quite a bit of lost time. The reason the Minmatar Commando can muster more alpha than the triple modded Nonmmando is because it can fit 2 damage mods, whereas the Gallente cannot.

So in short, the Commandos are not capable of putting out much more DPS than a Nonmmando *until* the reload comes, at which point the DPS increases by a good margin. For a PLC this is after 1 shot, and a Swarm after 3, obviously.


So that begs the question of....where do you want things to land? I don't think innately changing the Commando bonuses is what needs to happen....their bonuses have good use in non-AV situations and nerfing the bonuses are simply going to cause collateral nerfs in areas where it is not needed.

That being said, it really comes down to How do you change the weapon so that the Commando bonus is not overbearing in its effectiveness. We've established that the differences in alpha are not too significant, so what it really comes down to is "How do we modify the Reload and Lock-On/Charge time of the Swarm/PLC so that the Reload bonus of the Commando is useful, but not overbearing."

I am trying to understand what the real issue is.

That Minmandos are better at AV?

Is that really a problem if that turns out to be the case?

They start off with much lower HP than other heavies. They have comperable HP to assaults, if not much lower yet have no grenades and few module slots to use, and have poor EWAR.

Commandos in general are lacking a role, would it be a significant problem if they were much better at AV than other classes?

Pokey is incredibly reasonable, I don't really appreciate you trying to belittle him when he's trying to foster healthy discussion on something perceived by a reasonably large portion of the community to be a contentious issue. If you can't act like an adult **** off.

Of course you completely ignore his point, which is exactly what you do with people you don't agree with, most especially me.

The reason Pokey ignored his point, was because that was not the intended purpose of the thread. This isn't an examination of the platforms the swarm launchers can be deployed on

The purpose of this thread is to discuss how much (If at all) the commandos alter the vehicle TTK, and how much they should (if at all) compared to a non-commando (Assuming spherical mercs in a vacuum)

@Doc DDD, I understand and agree that the on-paper DPS and sustained DPS of swarm launchers alone stand out as an anomaly compared to the other AV weapon options available, and I'm reasonably sure that Pokey is aware of that. Please understand that in this thread Pokey wants to examine the Minmatar Commando (and all commando platforms in general) and how they theoretically affect the TTK. Please, by all means start a thread for the reasonably discussion of swarm launchers themselves, and improvements that could be made to them as a weapon system to fit more in balance (Note: that improvements to fit in balance may mean the weapon damage needs to be nerfed)

Assuming spherical mercs in a vacuum, any suit with 3 high slots or more will do similar damage as a commando with the a damage bonus to the same weapon, so long as that commando suit has at least two high slots.

This comes from running countless, logi, assault, scout, commando av fits as well as doing basic math.

Now if that is the point of this thread, do we really need a thread to know that a 10% native damage bonus roughly equates to about 50% more than a complex damage mod in a high slot?

No offense intended, but I think most people picked that point up already, and the actual problem is the weapon that the bonus applies to....

You want a new thread to tackle this? Or maybe glance at my jiberish. .

Sorry you can't understand anything I wrote.

Commandos are viable against infantry, triple modded assault's are not viable against infantry as they only have a sidearm and lower EHP.

Following?

Scouts can use stealth to avoid infantry and focus on AV.

Following?

Currently 2 Minmandos with swarms will pop every tank configuration under the new proposed hull numbers less than 4 seconds after the first swarms hit.

Following?

The minmando bonus is a problem as it only compares to an non-viable assault fit.

Now add in warbarge bonus, and unless you are using dual plasma canons on a galmando, speccing one suit trumps all points put into vehicles.

Following?

Pokey, I know this isn't Eve, but if you start a thread about minmandos and swarms, people that actually play the game and use things that are affected by minmandos and swarms are going to publicize the problems.

Pokey is incredibly reasonable, I don't really appreciate you trying to belittle him when he's trying to foster healthy discussion on something perceived by a reasonably large portion of the community to be a contentious issue. If you can't act like an adult **** off.

Acting like an adult I see,

Swarms on any commando are deadly, on the minmando it's a whole new level.

The argument is pilots vs forum/spreadsheet warriors. That's experience vs people that make charts.

Experience > chartmaking

How have you not been banned yet you pedantic ****. I'm honestly surprised with how you've carried on in every thread ever. Especially with rattati warning you to stop being a shitlord.

Funny how by pointing out bad ideas, it's being toxic to the community and you want my voice silenced because of it.

Me and Doc use vehicles. I never see you, Pokey or Breakin in game. I play domination every day, so there's a damn good chance I'd see a bunch of people from the forums in game. But.............................................. I rarely do. Seems everybody has these incredible ideas they want implemented over all others, without actually being able to compare anything. Numbers on a chart is not the same thing as actually watching your HP melt away by AV.

As I've been saying, experience will trump spreadsheets every time. Do all the fancy equations you want, they may or may not translate to actual gameplay. Nobody has explained how AV being a deterrent would be a bad thing. Nobody has explained to me why a tank being its own best counter is a bad thing. Nobody has explained to me how it's a good thing that a weapon which does all the aiming for the user has such incredible damage. Nobody has explained why it's a good thing that the top AV grenade does ~1800 damage against unhardened armor.

Nobody validates AV doing such incredible damage.

And I also don't use profanity on here. Might want to watch what you type.

stuff

The argument is pilots vs forum/spreadsheet warriors. That's experience vs people that make charts.

Experience > chartmaking

Acting like an adult I see,

Swarms on any commando are deadly, on the minmando it's a whole new level.