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Breakin Stuff wrote:

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Does the math include the time you are releasing a volley and the down time it takes before you can make a lock again?

I trust your math, but I'm not sure it's all inclusive. I will be testing this later just to be sure.

What you are talking about is the refire delay I was talking about.

I can't find it.

We've found the values for the PLC and the forge gun, but cannot locate any of the others as yet.

I'm not certain of the exact value either, but my partner and I just finished recording a video for this. Our best attempt at firing them as fast as we could begins:

(exact times pulled from the video editor)

01:36:00 Start first lock
01:37:73 First lock complete
01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing

01:40:93 Second lock completes
01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing

01:44:53 Third lock completes
01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing

This was at 170ish meters. Between the start of the first lock and firing the last lock is a lot more time than 3.15 seconds. In fact, it takes longer than 3.15 seconds from the start of the first lock to the end of the second lock. Even without the milisecond data from the editor you can easily tell that it takes longer than 3.15 seconds to even lock the second volley, let alone lock and fire the two shots.

Also, my partner shooting at me in this video has Prof. 4 swarms and was using a STD 'Dren' swarm launcher with no damage mods, and the tank I'm in is a MLT Soma with 2 MLT BPO heavy armor repairs, a MLT scanner and a MLT fuel injector if you are curious about the damage I was taking.

I would also like to note that the poor blue who's dropship was killed in this video at just after 2:50 (and who later attacked my partner once or twice) was sent 2 million ISK for his trouble.

Lastly, my partner wishes to apologize for the video quality. And she say's if you don't like it, 'Up yours'.

which swarm launcher are you using? The Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher or the Wiyrkomi Specialist Swarm Launcher? The wiyrkomi specialist is identical in all ways except it has a longer lock time at 1.96 then combined with a 0.3 second refire delay penalty that isn't documented for a baseline fire time of 2.26, of which only 1.96 is counted for the lock reduction skill.

Ok dren. What was her swarm skill? Because at level 5 swarms are supposed to get a 25% reduction to lock time. If she's unskilled then yes, you're floating right around the baseline lock time. which for the dren is 1.4 I believe.

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Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2138	Posted - 2015.01.28 09:29:00 - [121] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Does the math include the time you are releasing a volley and the down time it takes before you can make a lock again? I trust your math, but I'm not sure it's all inclusive. I will be testing this later just to be sure. What you are talking about is the refire delay I was talking about. I can't find it. We've found the values for the PLC and the forge gun, but cannot locate any of the others as yet. I'm not certain of the exact value either, but my partner and I just finished recording a video for this. Our best attempt at firing them as fast as we could begins: (exact times pulled from the video editor) 01:36:00 Start first lock 01:37:73 First lock complete 01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing 01:40:93 Second lock completes 01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing 01:44:53 Third lock completes 01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing This was at 170ish meters. Between the start of the first lock and firing the last lock is a lot more time than 3.15 seconds. In fact, it takes longer than 3.15 seconds from the start of the first lock to the end of the second lock. Even without the milisecond data from the editor you can easily tell that it takes longer than 3.15 seconds to even lock the second volley, let alone lock and fire the two shots. Also, my partner shooting at me in this video has Prof. 4 swarms and was using a STD 'Dren' swarm launcher with no damage mods, and the tank I'm in is a MLT Soma with 2 MLT BPO heavy armor repairs, a MLT scanner and a MLT fuel injector if you are curious about the damage I was taking. I would also like to note that the poor blue who's dropship was killed in this video at just after 2:50 (and who later attacked my partner once or twice) was sent 2 million ISK for his trouble. Lastly, my partner wishes to apologize for the video quality. And she say's if you don't like it, 'Up yours'. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6824	Posted - 2015.01.28 10:36:00 - [122] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Does the math include the time you are releasing a volley and the down time it takes before you can make a lock again? I trust your math, but I'm not sure it's all inclusive. I will be testing this later just to be sure. What you are talking about is the refire delay I was talking about. I can't find it. We've found the values for the PLC and the forge gun, but cannot locate any of the others as yet. I'm not certain of the exact value either, but my partner and I just finished recording a video for this. Our best attempt at firing them as fast as we could begins: (exact times pulled from the video editor) 01:36:00 Start first lock 01:37:73 First lock complete 01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing 01:40:93 Second lock completes 01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing 01:44:53 Third lock completes 01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing This was at 170ish meters. Between the start of the first lock and firing the last lock is a lot more time than 3.15 seconds. In fact, it takes longer than 3.15 seconds from the start of the first lock to the end of the second lock. Even without the milisecond data from the editor you can easily tell that it takes longer than 3.15 seconds to even lock the second volley, let alone lock and fire the two shots. Also, my partner shooting at me in this video has Prof. 4 swarms and was using a STD 'Dren' swarm launcher with no damage mods, and the tank I'm in is a MLT Soma with 2 MLT BPO heavy armor repairs, a MLT scanner and a MLT fuel injector if you are curious about the damage I was taking. I would also like to note that the poor blue who's dropship was killed in this video at just after 2:50 (and who later attacked my partner once or twice) was sent 2 million ISK for his trouble. Lastly, my partner wishes to apologize for the video quality. And she say's if you don't like it, 'Up yours'. which swarm launcher are you using? The Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher or the Wiyrkomi Specialist Swarm Launcher? The wiyrkomi specialist is identical in all ways except it has a longer lock time at 1.96 then combined with a 0.3 second refire delay penalty that isn't documented for a baseline fire time of 2.26, of which only 1.96 is counted for the lock reduction skill. AV
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2138	Posted - 2015.01.28 10:44:00 - [123] - Quote If you watch when she gets ammo from her hive, it's a STD 'Dren' swarm launcher. (mentioned this when writing my partners swarm levels, 3 paragraphs from the end) Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2138	Posted - 2015.01.28 10:58:00 - [124] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Does the math include the time you are releasing a volley and the down time it takes before you can make a lock again? I trust your math, but I'm not sure it's all inclusive. I will be testing this later just to be sure. What you are talking about is the refire delay I was talking about. I can't find it. We've found the values for the PLC and the forge gun, but cannot locate any of the others as yet. I'm not certain of the exact value either, but my partner and I just finished recording a video for this. Our best attempt at firing them as fast as we could begins: (exact times pulled from the video editor) 01:36:00 Start first lock 01:37:73 First lock complete 01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing 01:40:93 Second lock completes 01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing 01:44:53 Third lock completes 01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing This was at 170ish meters. Between the start of the first lock and firing the last lock is a lot more time than 3.15 seconds. In fact, it takes longer than 3.15 seconds from the start of the first lock to the end of the second lock. Even without the milisecond data from the editor you can easily tell that it takes longer than 3.15 seconds to even lock the second volley, let alone lock and fire the two shots. Also, my partner shooting at me in this video has Prof. 4 swarms and was using a STD 'Dren' swarm launcher with no damage mods, and the tank I'm in is a MLT Soma with 2 MLT BPO heavy armor repairs, a MLT scanner and a MLT fuel injector if you are curious about the damage I was taking. I would also like to note that the poor blue who's dropship was killed in this video at just after 2:50 (and who later attacked my partner once or twice) was sent 2 million ISK for his trouble. Lastly, my partner wishes to apologize for the video quality. And she say's if you don't like it, 'Up yours'. which swarm launcher are you using? The Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher or the Wiyrkomi Specialist Swarm Launcher? The wiyrkomi specialist is identical in all ways except it has a longer lock time at 1.96 then combined with a 0.3 second refire delay penalty that isn't documented for a baseline fire time of 2.26, of which only 1.96 is counted for the lock reduction skill. Ok dren. What was her swarm skill? Because at level 5 swarms are supposed to get a 25% reduction to lock time. If she's unskilled then yes, you're floating right around the baseline lock time. which for the dren is 1.4 I believe. In the same paragraph I mentioned her swarm type, I said she has Prof. 4 swarms. Though the skill may say it gives a 25% reduction, it's not exactly noticeable as you can see. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2138	Posted - 2015.01.28 11:10:00 - [125] - Quote Basically if you knock off the last 0.47 seconds, call it a margin for human error if you like, you still take 9 seconds from the start of the first lock to when the last swarm leaves the barrel. That's still well over 2 times as long as the proposed 3.15, and it's just over 3 times as long if you don't knock off that last 0.47s. Non variant swarms, OP 5. Also note how even though I'm still a huge target in plain view in that tank, an easy target for a forge or even a PLC if I don't move, 3 steps back and you can't even lock anymore. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Text Grant PIanet Express Smart Deploy 387	Posted - 2015.01.28 11:41:00 - [126] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Text Grant wrote: The assault swarm launcher is pointless, and should be given a different buff instead of locking on to multiple targets. There is never a need to half your DPS. Instead a faster lock on, or a longer lock on range would be appreciated. I'm more partial to removing it. It's just another stupid thing for CCP to "balance" It would be a huge disappointment if CCP started removing content again to "balance"
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6824	Posted - 2015.01.28 11:49:00 - [127] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Basically if you knock off the last 0.47 seconds, call it a margin for human error if you like, you still take 9 seconds from the start of the first lock to when the last swarm leaves the barrel. That's still well over 2 times as long as the proposed 3.15, and it's just over 3 times as long if you don't knock off that last 0.47s. Non variant swarms, OP 5. Also note how even though I'm still a huge target in plain view in that tank, an easy target for a forge or even a PLC if I don't move, 3 steps back and you can't even lock anymore. yeah I know, something is fishy with the numbers here AV
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2138	Posted - 2015.01.28 12:19:00 - [128] - Quote Agreed. Mathematically they are busted, but in practice they function very differently. Heading to work, I'll check back in later. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1962	Posted - 2015.01.28 14:35:00 - [129] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: yeah I know, something is fishy with the numbers here there is nothing fishy, most pilots are just whiny wimps exaggerating. with fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time which is also additionally to that) you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 base dps with proto swarms before reload and 326 base dps factoring in reload. his video shows it perfectly how reality is vs the blurred vision of whiny pilots. in comparision: PLC has 0.5s fire interval additionally to charge up. with max reload skill and proto PLC that would be ~294 base dps. forge guns has 480 dps without reload and 365 dps with reload. it appears to have no fire interval at all, only charge up. in short: swarms are currently, performance wise, in line with all other AV options we have
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6825	Posted - 2015.01.28 15:17:00 - [130] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: yeah I know, something is fishy with the numbers here there is nothing fishy, most pilots are just whiny wimps exaggerating. with fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time which is also additionally to that) you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 base dps with proto swarms before reload and 326 base dps factoring in reload. his video shows it perfectly how reality is vs the blurred vision of whiny pilots. in comparision: PLC has 0.5s fire interval additionally to charge up. with max reload skill and proto PLC that would be ~294 base dps. forge guns has 480 dps without reload and 365 dps with reload. it appears to have no fire interval at all, only charge up. in short: swarms are currently, performance wise, in line with all other AV options we have they have a 1 second fire interval for forges. AV

Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1965	Posted - 2015.01.28 15:41:00 - [131] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: yeah I know, something is fishy with the numbers here there is nothing fishy, most pilots are just whiny wimps exaggerating. with fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time which is also additionally to that) you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 base dps with proto swarms before reload and 326 base dps factoring in reload. his video shows it perfectly how reality is vs the blurred vision of whiny pilots. in comparision: PLC has 0.5s fire interval additionally to charge up. with max reload skill and proto PLC that would be ~294 base dps. forge guns has 480 dps without reload and 365 dps with reload. it appears to have no fire interval at all, only charge up. in short: swarms are currently, performance wise, in line with all other AV options we have they have a 1 second fire interval for forges. my bad but that is still 360 dps without reload for the regular forge. there is still the option for the assault forge which has higher dps. this thing is still a beast considering the amount of shots per reload and range coupled with the alpha and AI capabilities. I also think one second doesnt change the fact that swarms are not the powerful as the pilot wimps are claiming.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1345	Posted - 2015.01.28 19:22:00 - [132] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: my bad but that is still 360 dps without reload for the regular forge. there is still the option for the assault forge which has higher dps. this thing is still a beast considering the amount of shots per reload and range coupled with the alpha and AI capabilities. imho this doesnt change the fact that swarms are not as powerful as the pilot wimps are claiming. It takes only three volleys of proficiency two prototype swarms to kill a complex 60mm plated Incubus. You don't even know they're coming until the first hits, because they don't render. Forges may be good, but swarms are the lazy mans AV and should be balanced as such. Dual tanking is for bad players. 21 day EVE trial.
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2140	Posted - 2015.01.28 21:11:00 - [133] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Jack McReady wrote: my bad but that is still 360 dps without reload for the regular forge. there is still the option for the assault forge which has higher dps. this thing is still a beast considering the amount of shots per reload and range coupled with the alpha and AI capabilities. imho this doesnt change the fact that swarms are not as powerful as the pilot wimps are claiming. It takes only three volleys of proficiency two prototype swarms to kill a complex 60mm plated Incubus. You don't even know they're coming until the first hits, because they don't render. Forges may be good, but swarms are the lazy mans AV and should be balanced as such. My partner just fitted an incubus with approximately the health of a complex plate (2 basic plates equipped, meaning it has 86 more eHP than your ship with a single complex armor mod) and an armor hardner and I hopped into it while my Prof. 4 swarm partner shot at it. Here's the ship's stats and here's her swarm fitting at the time. And just for you, here's the video. You'll notice that not only did I survive 3 volleys, I survived with 397 HP. Which means your ship should have survived with 311 armor. And if you say 'but you were using a hardner'.... then you obviously don't know much about flying a dropship. Also note that I was just chilling out taking the hits, I had plenty of time to out range them but I did not. And if I were specced into them (I have 0 SP in vehicles) or had a better fitted ship, or even if I could have fit an armor repair, there would have been very little reason for me to have died when caught in this scenario. Edit: Not trying to imply the armor vehicles, or even dropships, are in a good place. Just straightening out facts you had distorted. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2032	Posted - 2015.01.28 21:25:00 - [134] - Quote ^if you had dropped the hardener for a rep you wouldn't have lived, you were also aware that there would be inconing fire and were probably at a range where you could have broken lock via range. These situations seldom happen for ads because hovering at 170m means were not actually doing our jobs, we need to get much closer in order to do things like remove uplinks or support squadmates. Being blindsided by swarms at 70m will usually mean there's already a second volley in the air and a third locking. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2140	Posted - 2015.01.28 21:35:00 - [135] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: ^if you had dropped the hardener for a rep you wouldn't have lived, you were also aware that there would be inconing fire and were probably at a range where you could have broken lock via range. These situations seldom happen for ads because hovering at 170m means were not actually doing our jobs, we need to get much closer in order to do things like remove uplinks or support squadmates. Being blindsided by swarms at 70m will usually mean there's already a second volley in the air and a third locking. The video was 34 seconds long, if you want to claim something about it, watch it. Also, it was at approximately 94 meters, and if she were specced into dropships it would have been fitted with a complex plate, an armor rep AND a hardner, so you point on that is a bit moot. Lastly this video was made to disprove that you could kill a complex armor modded Incubus at Prof. 2 swarms with only 3 volleys. Not that my Prof. 4 swarm partner could kill an unhardened Incubus with only 3 volleys. As I said before, we were disproving a point, not making one about the state of the vehicles. If you have any other outrageous claims to make though, we are happy to test them for you. (Whether the result is good or bad for AV I might add. ) Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2032	Posted - 2015.01.28 22:16:00 - [136] - Quote ^unable to watch from phone currently Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 931	Posted - 2015.01.28 22:22:00 - [137] - Quote Thanks for the playtesting and footage. It really helps giving those spreadsheets a proper foundation. I sometimes tend to get caught up in numbers myself - and there's only a limited time available for trying out different roles.
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2141	Posted - 2015.01.28 22:28:00 - [138] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Thanks for the playtesting and footage. It really helps giving those spreadsheets a proper foundation. I sometimes tend to get caught up in numbers myself - and there's only a limited time available for trying out different roles. We are more than happy to show any inaccuracies in a persons statements on video, and if that helps show you a role better, we are happy to help. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2142	Posted - 2015.01.29 00:48:00 - [139] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: ^unable to watch from phone currently Ah, sorry for the remark then. I do believe my point still stands though. As does my offer Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 362	Posted - 2015.01.29 02:21:00 - [140] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: ^if you had dropped the hardener for a rep you wouldn't have lived, you were also aware that there would be inconing fire and were probably at a range where you could have broken lock via range. These situations seldom happen for ads because hovering at 170m means were not actually doing our jobs, we need to get much closer in order to do things like remove uplinks or support squadmates. Being blindsided by swarms at 70m will usually mean there's already a second volley in the air and a third locking. You said alot of words but all I read was "if you dont use your modules or react and you fit your dropship badly, you die". Well... duh.

Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1989	Posted - 2015.01.29 07:49:00 - [141] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: It takes only three volleys of proficiency two prototype swarms to kill a complex 60mm plated Incubus. . if you dont fit your ship properly, dont use your modules and dont react accordingly you die, who would guess. beside that, if swarm would kill you in that "scrub pilot scenario" then a forge would too.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1351	Posted - 2015.01.29 08:25:00 - [142] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: It takes only three volleys of proficiency two prototype swarms to kill a complex 60mm plated Incubus. . if you dont fit your ship properly, dont use your modules and dont react accordingly you die, who would guess. beside that, if swarm would kill you in that "scrub pilot scenario" then a forge would too. If you see nothing wrong with that you're delusional. Again. Swarms are fire and forget weapons designed for players who want to put less effort into the game. As such, the user should get the same treatment back. The only thing keeping assault dropships being used is the current shield meta and the persistence of the few left. Three volleys is ** all for time. Since swarms don't render past 80 meters, 100 if you're lucky you never see the first volley. The second ones hit you within 3-6 seconds, all while the damage markers tell you the wrong direction of the hits. The third one kills you, because by the time you could even infer where they were coming from there's little to no cover. It doesn't matter though, because the swarms were probably originating from what you thought was a safe area and you flew right into them. This doesn't only happen to "scrub pilots". It happens to people who have been using dropships for years now. It's not that they're bad. The mechanics are ****. But since you're the master of dropship fitting, how would you fit a particle cannon Incubus for AV using current modules? e: Get on with it. Dual tanking is for bad players. 21 day EVE trial.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6835	Posted - 2015.01.29 08:51:00 - [143] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: It takes only three volleys of proficiency two prototype swarms to kill a complex 60mm plated Incubus. . if you dont fit your ship properly, dont use your modules and dont react accordingly you die, who would guess. beside that, if swarm would kill you in that "scrub pilot scenario" then a forge would too. This is not helpful feedback. AV
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1989	Posted - 2015.01.29 09:01:00 - [144] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: some stuff you are supposed to die just like everyone else. if you cant accept that, then dont fly a drophship. the dropship isnt even that expensive compared to a full proto suit and you get immunity to all AI weapons, huge mobility and a gtfo button. fun fact, the following fit survives 3 volleys from max skills proto swarm with 2 complex damage mods on a minmando 20GJ Particle Cannon Basic 120mm Armor Plates Enhanced Armor Hardener Complex Light Armor Repairer Basic Afterburner the only thing I can agree with is that a dropship needs a lock on warning, everything else is just biased whining.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1351	Posted - 2015.01.29 09:19:00 - [145] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: some stuff fun fact, the following fit survives 3 volleys from max skills proto swarm with 2 complex damage mods on a minmando 20GJ Particle Cannon Basic 120mm Armor Plates Enhanced Armor Hardener Complex Light Armor Repairer Basic Afterburner the only thing I can agree with is that a dropship needs a lock on warning. lol a fit that requires small railgun fitting V and armor fitting V. A fit shouldn't need an oversized plate to survive, same thing goes with Pythons and oversized extenders. Dual tanking is for bad players. 21 day EVE trial.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1989	Posted - 2015.01.29 09:21:00 - [146] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: lol a fit that requires small railgun fitting V and armor fitting V. A fit shouldn't need an oversized plate to survive, same thing goes with Pythons and oversized extenders. a fit that requires max skills survivies an AV fit that requires/has max skills. I would say it is working as intended.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2038	Posted - 2015.01.29 11:42:00 - [147] - Quote ^No, as there is a disproportionate level of investment required by the vehicle user. Either we use all of our skillpoints on vehicles and the game changes to accommodate people who have zero infantry skills via stuff like remote hacks and massive maps... Effectively allowing fully skilled vehicles to play with zero infantry investment. Or we spend a decent chunk of sp on infantry things *as they are required to play the game in meaningful manners* and then we are also able to invest in vehicles and expect reasonable survivability, utility and life expectancy for our non infantry skill choices and large monetary investments. If we have to put away our 'toys' to play the game in meaningful manners our level of sp investment goes up dramatically as unlike core skills & equipment & weapons which carry over when the fotm changes our vehicle skillpoints are useless on a map like research lab. "I get to spend at most 15m sp into my one role (if that's all I've done) to negate your >18m sp investment... And you don't get to play unless you've also spent 10-15m on top of that for a dropsuit". Understand where this is going? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6836	Posted - 2015.01.29 12:35:00 - [148] - Quote I haven't actually encountered the need to drop infantry skills on my HAV alt. I do all my infantry scutwork on this character. AV
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2144	Posted - 2015.01.29 12:43:00 - [149] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: ^No, as there is a disproportionate level of investment required by the vehicle user. Either we use all of our skillpoints on vehicles and the game changes to accommodate people who have zero infantry skills via stuff like remote hacks and massive maps... Effectively allowing fully skilled vehicles to play with zero infantry investment. Or we spend a decent chunk of sp on infantry things *as they are required to play the game in meaningful manners* and then we are also able to invest in vehicles and expect reasonable survivability, utility and life expectancy for our non infantry skill choices and large monetary investments. If we have to put away our 'toys' to play the game in meaningful manners our level of sp investment goes up dramatically as unlike core skills & equipment & weapons which carry over when the fotm changes our vehicle skillpoints are useless on a map like research lab. "I get to spend at most 15m sp into my one role (if that's all I've done) to negate your >18m sp investment... And you don't get to play unless you've also spent 10-15m on top of that for a dropsuit". Understand where this is going? Dear CCP, Please show us the average life expectancy of a vehicle driver compared to the average life expectancy of a player running an AV primary weapon so we can see who gets more out of their investment in in-game play time. Thank you. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6836	Posted - 2015.01.29 12:45:00 - [150] - Quote Baal: I can tell you that answer. If AV gunner has been playing more than two years AS an AV gunner? Odds are good he can break that power curve. Anyone else is dogchow. AV



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