DUST Search - AV feedback

Jack McReady wrote:

MINA Longstrike wrote:

I find it to be in very poor taste to believe that a vehicle user should have to have what, 20m dropped into their role in order to have a 'chance' at surviving against individuals with first mover advantage. Before I'm jumped on for this or have my words twisted [b]this is nothing even close to expressing a desire to flit about in an invincible death machine[b]. I want my investments into vehicles to feel meaningful, not to lead to frustration because I was blindsided and instant murdered by things I can see..

so, just because you use vehicles you are special and should get better treatmeant? what you are complaining about is true for anyone ingame. you already get massive advantages, yet it is not enough...

I have already busted this "instant murdered" myths on several occassion now. a single person cannot ever kill a properly tanked dropship or HAV under 9 seconds. if you cant react in 9 seconds accordingly then maybe a FPS is not for you. if you overextend and get alphad by several AV specialists then it was a mistake on your part.

MINA Longstrike wrote:

Pissy ad-hominem attacks are not why I've participated in this thread.

it is not my fault that this is the content of your post stretched over several sentences. it is too late for you to play the innocent.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1996	Posted - 2015.01.24 14:28:00 - [1] - Quote My only suggestions for right now are to do with the plasma cannon. Step 1) They need to be redesigned to use less cpu and to actually use powergrid (also fix the plc fitting optimization skill). Step 2) Basic plasma cannon should be pushed up to the damage that advanced has(1155 -> 1330) advanced should be jumped up to proto level damage (1330 -> 1505) and proto should get the same 175 point damage increase (1505 -> 1680) Step 3) Rework plasma cannon skill to be 3% reload speed per level from 5% charge reduction per level (.15seconds at max level). Standardize PLC charge time at .45s. Step 4) Maybe add a bit more ammo carried. There's also currently roughly a half second delay between the round leaves a plasma cannon until you start reloading it. This needs to be fixed. Overall the plasma cannon is a bit of a tricky weapon to buff because if you give too much damage or tweaking other stats too hard it starts overperforming against infantry. I think for the most part that the plasma cannon is in a relatively okay spot for light av work given its ability to be shot at infantry or vehicles, it's capable of one-shotting LAV's which is good and it puts some serious hurt into dropships or tanks on a hit (which when followed up by swarm or forge fire makes it work very well). I haven't ran the math for what these changes would do to its total dps at the moment, but I believe the changes to damage would allow proto plasma cannons to oneshot most sentinels (instead of leaving them alive with ~100 health) and overall would be a small buff to their performance against vehicles. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1996	Posted - 2015.01.24 14:46:00 - [2] - Quote ^I'm not an avid PLC user I just squad with the guy who came in 3rd for PLC kills during officer event. I don't think having 'dps' similar to or potentially even higher than an AFG would be 'broken' due to the skill required for use. I would also agree that lock time is an issue for the swarm launcher. I would also say that direct damage per shot is a bit low for the forge gun. Breach should be highest damage per shot, assault should be highest dps, std should be somewhere in between. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1999	Posted - 2015.01.24 19:41:00 - [3] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I think swarms update the target's last location based on a timer. So every... we'll say half second it updates the target location. So it bombs along on the last valid trajectory and THEN updates 30m later.so your dropship bolts around a corner where they should turn and ram. But they overshoot and turn the corner because they had not hit their update tick yet. It's a way to save processor speed by not having them update constantly and having swarms eat all of the calculation time. basically to fix tracking the algorithm needs to be reset to always zero in on the target rather than follow it's pathing. so the longer the flight time the more chances a dropship has to get behind something solid What about increasing the amount of time it takes for swarms to update and reducing the rate that they turn? Ie make them clumsier. I don't think this would change too much for ground game as it's not terribly hard to get them to smash into cover etc, but it could make worlds of difference for air. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1999	Posted - 2015.01.24 20:06:00 - [4] - Quote I'm talking more about have them zoom by air targets and potentially waste fuel in turning around then coming back to target. there's no real easy guesswork for this though. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2032	Posted - 2015.01.28 21:25:00 - [5] - Quote ^if you had dropped the hardener for a rep you wouldn't have lived, you were also aware that there would be inconing fire and were probably at a range where you could have broken lock via range. These situations seldom happen for ads because hovering at 170m means were not actually doing our jobs, we need to get much closer in order to do things like remove uplinks or support squadmates. Being blindsided by swarms at 70m will usually mean there's already a second volley in the air and a third locking. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2032	Posted - 2015.01.28 22:16:00 - [6] - Quote ^unable to watch from phone currently Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2038	Posted - 2015.01.29 11:42:00 - [7] - Quote ^No, as there is a disproportionate level of investment required by the vehicle user. Either we use all of our skillpoints on vehicles and the game changes to accommodate people who have zero infantry skills via stuff like remote hacks and massive maps... Effectively allowing fully skilled vehicles to play with zero infantry investment. Or we spend a decent chunk of sp on infantry things *as they are required to play the game in meaningful manners* and then we are also able to invest in vehicles and expect reasonable survivability, utility and life expectancy for our non infantry skill choices and large monetary investments. If we have to put away our 'toys' to play the game in meaningful manners our level of sp investment goes up dramatically as unlike core skills & equipment & weapons which carry over when the fotm changes our vehicle skillpoints are useless on a map like research lab. "I get to spend at most 15m sp into my one role (if that's all I've done) to negate your >18m sp investment... And you don't get to play unless you've also spent 10-15m on top of that for a dropsuit". Understand where this is going? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2039	Posted - 2015.01.29 13:10:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I haven't actually encountered the need to drop infantry skills on my HAV alt. I do all my infantry scutwork on this character. As in haven't needed to skill into infantry? Or you have a mix? I myself find it hard to play with Mina's tanks and dropships while I'm using my minlogi/minscout alt (zero way for me to have those on Mina without dumping tons of money into boosters & grinding to cap out every week.) and I find it exceptionally hard to make good use of Mina's vehicles on research lab domination, where I'd much rather have the minlogi. I find it to be in very poor taste to believe that a vehicle user should have to have what, 20m dropped into their role in order to have a 'chance' at surviving against individuals with first mover advantage. Before I'm jumped on for this or have my words twisted [b]this is nothing even close to expressing a desire to flit about in an invincible death machine[b]. I want my investments into vehicles to feel meaningful, not to lead to frustration because I was blindsided and instant murdered by things I can see. There is an equal desire on av side to want their investments to feel meaningful (and currently some vehicles really make it not feel that way), but if you're taking the lazy mans option of 'point in general direction and let go of trigger' I do not believe your investment should be hyper-effective compared to mine, you should have to work a bit harder than plcs or forges. Av vs V balance has been something that has had problems for forever and a day (lai dai packed spam, instant kill breach forges, 400m lock range swarms). Antagonism on the part of whichever side has the upper hand is never a step towards balance. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2039	Posted - 2015.01.29 13:15:00 - [9] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: ^No, as there is a disproportionate level of investment required by the vehicle user. read: "I spent some isk and SP, thus I want to be immune to everything and be able to do everything" you are supposed to die just like everyone else especially against something that counters you. you are not supposed to be able to do everything on your own. beside that, your SP carry over to all other vehicles. you get huge mobility and immunity to majority of weapons. I have proven several times it is possible to survive against specialized max skill AV. deal with it and git gud or continue to be a whiny wimp. your choice. Pissy ad-hominem attacks are not why I've participated in this thread, if this is all I'm going to get for attempting to be productive and helpful when bringing to light actual concerns on either side of this issue and actively speaking out against things I feel will harm infantry gameplay experience I have little desire or incentive to continue to be helpful or productive. You can **ing talk to spkr instead and go around in your little counterproductive hate circle jerk until the sun dies out. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2039	Posted - 2015.01.29 13:27:00 - [10] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: I find it to be in very poor taste to believe that a vehicle user should have to have what, 20m dropped into their role in order to have a 'chance' at surviving against individuals with first mover advantage. Before I'm jumped on for this or have my words twisted [b]this is nothing even close to expressing a desire to flit about in an invincible death machine[b]. I want my investments into vehicles to feel meaningful, not to lead to frustration because I was blindsided and instant murdered by things I can see.. so, just because you use vehicles you are special and should get better treatmeant? what you are complaining about is true for anyone ingame. you already get massive advantages, yet it is not enough... I have already busted this "instant murdered" myths on several occassion now. a single person cannot ever kill a properly tanked dropship or HAV under 9 seconds. if you cant react in 9 seconds accordingly then maybe a FPS is not for you. if you overextend and get alphad by several AV specialists then it was a mistake on your part. MINA Longstrike wrote: Pissy ad-hominem attacks are not why I've participated in this thread. it is not my fault that this is the content of your post stretched over several sentences. it is too late for you to play the innocent. So you're going to continue attacking me for no reason then? Other than "YOU USE VEHICLES YOU'RE THE ENEMY!!!". Cool, probably done with this thread, there is no actual discussion to be had here, you're trying to drum up a witchhunt. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2039	Posted - 2015.01.29 14:12:00 - [11] - Quote ^honestly Baal, I'd be against the 'less missiles fired' simply because it would screw with using a swarm optimally. And it turns swarms back into things that cover multiple objectives, even if they don't do it well. I'm not fond of the thought of returning to 1.6 where no matter where I am on the map, swarms will constantly be flying after me from rooftops. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2040	Posted - 2015.01.29 15:48:00 - [12] - Quote It's note 1/4 dmg when enemy has been beaten back from [objective] and 3-8 players with nothing to shoot switch over to swarms. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.