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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1322
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Posted - 2015.01.24 10:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Reserved. Typing as up now.
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1322
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Posted - 2015.01.24 11:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's kinda both. Ditching Minmando bonus would be one thing to help. I don't think any suits should get AV related bonuses it just invalidates the usage by other suits(if it's balanced) or makes them ZOMG **** your Incubus in in three rounds(otherwise).
The time it does take to fire three volleys of swarms is stupidly low. For sure.
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1322
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Posted - 2015.01.24 11:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah so nerf the **** out of swarms so people who want to not put effort will only do minimal damage.
PLC is very difficult to use even after the buffs and forge requires the user to be in a heavy suit without all the benefits of an HMG.
Wanna fire and forget? Forget getting the best AV weapon then.
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1330
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Posted - 2015.01.25 01:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:stuff The thing is, despite any amount of theory crafting, no one has been able to predict how the gameplay has worked out in any major chance CCP has done.
This is why baby steps is the best thing CCP can do when it comes to balancing at least for things that don't require skill tree changes.
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1330
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Posted - 2015.01.25 01:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
By the way Breakin'. If you're looking for any specific information/stats about swarms which isn't in game or in the SDE ask me.
Some stuff that would be nice for mathing
mLockOnAcquisitionInterruptionTime 0.3 mLockOnAcquisitionTime 1.4 mLockOnLosingAngle 90 mLockOnLosingTime 1
These stats are the same on all variants of swarms.
Supa s33kr3t
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
|
THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1330
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Posted - 2015.01.25 03:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:If you can find tge unlisted shot delay on the PLC I'd appreciate it.
And please see if it's duplicated on any other weapon.
So the PLC operation skill modifier modifies m_ChargeInfo.m_fChargeUpTime
m_ChargeInfo.m_fChargeUpTime is 0.6
However there are a few other numbers under m_ChargeInfo
Quote: "m_ChargeInfo.m_ChargeDamageMultiplierCurve.curveIndex": 0 "m_ChargeInfo.m_ChargeDamageMultiplierCurve.m_fMultiplier": 1 "m_ChargeInfo.m_ChargeDamageMultiplierCurve.m_fOffset": 0 "m_ChargeInfo.m_ChargeDamageMultiplierCurve.maxInValue": 1 "m_ChargeInfo.m_ChargeDownCurve.curveIndex": 0 "m_ChargeInfo.m_ChargeDownCurve.m_fMultiplier": 1 "m_ChargeInfo.m_ChargeDownCurve.m_fOffset": 0 "m_ChargeInfo.m_ChargeDownCurve.maxInValue": 1 "m_ChargeInfo.m_ChargeUpCurve.curveIndex": 0 "m_ChargeInfo.m_ChargeUpCurve.m_fMultiplier": 1 "m_ChargeInfo.m_ChargeUpCurve.m_fOffset": 0 "m_ChargeInfo.m_ChargeUpCurve.maxInValue": 1 "m_ChargeInfo.m_bChargeOncePerTriggerPress": "False" "m_ChargeInfo.m_bFireOnMinCharge": "True" "m_ChargeInfo.m_eChargeStartType": 0 "m_ChargeInfo.m_fChargeDownTime": 0 "m_ChargeInfo.m_fChargeMoveSpeedMult": 0.7 "m_ChargeInfo.m_fChargeUpTime": 0.6 "m_ChargeInfo.m_fMaxChargeHeldTime": 0 "m_ChargeInfo.m_fMinChargeToFire": 1
If CCP doesn't want this posted just edit it out or whatever.
e: I think you were talking about the delay between when the projectile fires after the charge up being full. I can't seem to find much other than what I listed.
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1332
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Posted - 2015.01.25 19:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Thundergroove:
The 0.5 second delay between shot fired and reload on the PLC. And if there is an iidentical trait on any other weapon. I'll look again. Roughly 450 attributes and nothing that I found pertaining to that.
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
|
THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1333
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Posted - 2015.01.25 19:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Does that mean there's currently a system implemented that could be used to dial back the "Lock an, turn around and shoot in the air"-behavior of Swarms? And it's been there all the time? And could be patched in a hotfix? Yes. It's possibly for them to change any of these values at any time. That's what the synchronizations are.
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Since you have access to some variables, do you also have access to some code also? I want to see if Breakin's homing theory is true.
To be specific what I'm looking for is a thread that updates the location which sleeps every 'X' milliseconds. And if it is possible to increase the number of iterations the loop structure would go through.
(UNSURE IF THIS IS HOW SWARMS WORK, DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT*)
If that can't be seen/can't be posted (unsure if there'll be any legal problems) I understand.
^ if it cannot be seen, is it okay to ask a dev specific questions relating to the code?
* sorry for the caps, phone is dying and well i'm typing in quick reply *
I have a bit over 600,000 lines of code which includes some standard libraries. I had to decompile Python bytecode. I won't release anything but I can make sense of it for you if it's there.
The thing is, most of the stuff that is in Python is stuff like UI, out of match networking, etc. It looks like all the firing stuff isn't there though, so it's probably implemented elsewhere.
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
|
THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1333
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Posted - 2015.01.25 20:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote: Ah, it's in Python? Sadly I can't pinpoint what i'm looking for then (I've just started to learn Python so I can use Blender).
How about some variables? Anything relating to vehicle speed/location? Or Swarm location? I think that's a good place to start.
I expect some things to be serverside so I understand if it's an impossible find for some things i might ask for.
First understanding the mechanics might be a good starting point, from there i think we as a community can rebuild swarms accordingly...
-I know i'm asking for way too much with this one- is there anything like a JAVADOC there also? It could help us understand just what the variable is used for.
P.S. i have a good feeling for this topic..
It's probably documented on their end, but it's decompiled bytecode so there's no comments.
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
|
THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1333
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Posted - 2015.01.26 07:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:A quick idea just came to mind.
Why not give small blasters a 77/63 (the old rails' damage profile against vehicles) profile against vehicles. It's damage is already too low to break recharge but, it can give better combat support in the sense of AV.
Rail = 90s/110a vehicle : 63s/77a infantry Missile = 79s/119a Blaster = 77s/63a vehicle : 110s/90a infantry
This will cause:
Rail - Superior AV capabilities, best at vehicle combat support. Some infantry support ability. Missile - the bridge between AV and AI, equally effective. Blaster - Superior AI capabilities, best at infantry combat support. Some vehicle support ability.
Well, after hit detection on infantry is fixed. (Thunder that's your queue)
I know hit detection is dealt with serverside but can you show some blaster variables that we can analyze? I Appreciate it!! Welp
80GJ Ion Cannon wrote: "m_AccuracyProperties.m_fMaxOffsetAngle": 2, "m_AccuracyProperties.m_fMaxShootAtTimeAccuracy": 1, "m_AccuracyProperties.m_fMaxStationaryAccuracy": 2, "m_AccuracyProperties.m_fMinOffsetAngle": 0.12, "m_AccuracyProperties.m_fNewOffsetInterval": 2, "m_AccuracyProperties.m_fNoiseConstant": 0.1, "m_AccuracyProperties.m_fPitchOffsetScalar": 0.1, "m_AccuracyProperties.m_fShotTimeTillAccurate": 8, "m_AccuracyProperties.m_fStationaryDecay": 50, "m_AccuracyProperties.m_fStationaryTimeTillAccurate": 8,
I did find some interesting things that look like they tweak turret AI, so it seams installations use the turrets types for stats. Nifty. Other stuff too like overlay colors/alpha/positions. Attack/Defend order score bonus radius. Draw distances, even WP rewards. Soo much stuff CCP can easily tweak.
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1333
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Posted - 2015.01.26 08:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: any chance you can find projectile velocities for Missile Turrets, Forge Guns, and Large Railguns? oh, and swarm launchers
I actually have my tool for analyzing export data running at the moment looking for changes in between recent hotfixes.
I'll edit this post with any findings with velocities
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
|
THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1335
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Posted - 2015.01.26 21:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
To clarify, the data I'm getting is from a serialized Python object which I used CCP's internal script which ships with DUST for whatever reason which is modified to export everything to the SDE instead of just what they want to export.
I then use the database file with my custom tool to get attributes easier.
As for the stuff with projectile velocities, I gave up after letting it run for 2000 individual entities to try to find the typeID. When I get time, I'll re-write the method to make it faster and more memory efficient.
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
|
THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1335
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Posted - 2015.01.27 04:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Scan Resolution would be a nice way to balance swarms against different targets, maybe?
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
|
THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1337
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Posted - 2015.01.28 00:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote: more please?
What are you interested in? I gave out pretty much everything currently not exported in the public SDE and also is relevant to the type itself.
There are other stuff like bullet magnetism, AA and aim friction(adhesion) but really don't feel comfortable dropping that stuff out there considering some of the stuff that might get stirred up Oh and it's not that relevant to the topic at hand.
Looks like there's a few attributes left over from when swarms were dumb fire. Oh ejection angles of the swarms.
Quote: "mEjectHorizontalAngle": 16384, "mEjectVerticalAngle": 5000,
As for the swarm launcher projectile
Quote: Opened DB with version debug Name: 'prj_swarmlauncher_std' | 353038 { "typeId": 353038, "typeName": "prj_swarmlauncher_std", "attributes": { "NetCullDistanceSquared": 2.5e+09, "mArcHeight.0": 1000, "mArcHeight.1": 1000, "mArmDelay": 0, "mBounces": 0, "mConstantTrackingTimer": 0.2, "mDispertionAngle.0": 0, "mDispertionAngle.1": 0, "mEjectVelocity": 40, "mFlightVfxParameter.floatValue": 0, "mIgnitionTriggerDistance": 30000, "mKillRange": 500, "mLaunchLength.0": 10, "mLaunchLength.1": 10, "mMaxRotationSpeed": 12743, "mMeshScale": 0.5, "mMissileKillRange": 100, "mPathMode.0": 1, "mPathMode.1": 1, "mProjProp.accelRate": 1200, "mProjProp.damageDecay": 10, "mProjProp.damageRadius": 100, "mProjProp.damageType": 351771, "mProjProp.directHitDamage": 260, "mProjProp.explodeByTouch": "True", "mProjProp.explosionMomentum": 500, "mProjProp.explosionType": 354592, "mProjProp.gravityScale": 0, "mProjProp.initSpeed": 500, "mProjProp.maxRange": 40000, "mProjProp.maxSpeed": 6500, "mProjProp.minimumDamage": 0, "mProjProp.occludedSplashDamage": "True", "mProjProp.projectileLifeSpan": 9, "mProjProp.splashDamage": 19, "mProjProp.splashDamageType": 351772, "mRandomModPercent.0": 0.1, "mRandomModPercent.1": 0.1, "mSounds.0.isDummyOneShot": "False", "mSounds.0.isLocal": "False", "mSounds.1.isDummyOneShot": "False", "mSounds.1.isLocal": "False", "mSounds.2.isDummyOneShot": "False", "mSounds.2.isLocal": "False", "mSpeedAfterIgnition": 6000, "mSpiralFactor.0": 0.5, "mSpiralFactor.1": 0.1, "mSplashDamage.curveIndex": 0, "mSplashDamage.m_fMultiplier": 1, "mSplashDamage.m_fOffset": 0, "mSplashDamage.maxInValue": 1, "mSpread.0": 1000, "mSpread.1": 1000, "mTeleportingTime": 5, "mTracing": "True", "mTrackDelay": 0.8, "mTrackTurningSpeed.0": 800, "mTrackTurningSpeed.1": 800, "tag.0": 353512, "tag.1": 354887 } }
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
|
THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1338
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Posted - 2015.01.28 07:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
Text Grant wrote:The assault swarm launcher is pointless, and should be given a different buff instead of locking on to multiple targets. There is never a need to half your DPS. Instead a faster lock on, or a longer lock on range would be appreciated. I'm more partial to removing it.
It's just another stupid thing for CCP to "balance"
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
|
THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1345
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Posted - 2015.01.28 19:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote: my bad but that is still 360 dps without reload for the regular forge. there is still the option for the assault forge which has higher dps. this thing is still a beast considering the amount of shots per reload and range coupled with the alpha and AI capabilities.
imho this doesnt change the fact that swarms are not as powerful as the pilot wimps are claiming.
It takes only three volleys of proficiency two prototype swarms to kill a complex 60mm plated Incubus.
You don't even know they're coming until the first hits, because they don't render.
Forges may be good, but swarms are the lazy mans AV and should be balanced as such.
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
|
THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1351
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Posted - 2015.01.29 08:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:THUNDERGROOVE wrote: It takes only three volleys of proficiency two prototype swarms to kill a complex 60mm plated Incubus.
.
if you dont fit your ship properly, dont use your modules and dont react accordingly you die, who would guess. beside that, if swarm would kill you in that "scrub pilot scenario" then a forge would too. If you see nothing wrong with that you're delusional. Again. Swarms are fire and forget weapons designed for players who want to put less effort into the game. As such, the user should get the same treatment back.
The only thing keeping assault dropships being used is the current shield meta and the persistence of the few left.
Three volleys is **** all for time. Since swarms don't render past 80 meters, 100 if you're lucky you never see the first volley.
The second ones hit you within 3-6 seconds, all while the damage markers tell you the wrong direction of the hits.
The third one kills you, because by the time you could even infer where they were coming from there's little to no cover. It doesn't matter though, because the swarms were probably originating from what you thought was a safe area and you flew right into them.
This doesn't only happen to "scrub pilots". It happens to people who have been using dropships for years now. It's not that they're bad. The mechanics are ******.
But since you're the master of dropship fitting, how would you fit a particle cannon Incubus for AV using current modules?
e: Get on with it.
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1351
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Posted - 2015.01.29 09:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:THUNDERGROOVE wrote: some stuff
fun fact, the following fit survives 3 volleys from max skills proto swarm with 2 complex damage mods on a minmando 20GJ Particle Cannon Basic 120mm Armor Plates Enhanced Armor Hardener Complex Light Armor Repairer Basic Afterburner the only thing I can agree with is that a dropship needs a lock on warning. lol a fit that requires small railgun fitting V and armor fitting V.
A fit shouldn't need an oversized plate to survive, same thing goes with Pythons and oversized extenders.
Dual tanking is for bad players.
21 day EVE trial.
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1376
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Posted - 2015.02.01 04:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Casually swapping out instantly at a depot is a thing I feel needs to change.
I am that guy who will actually suicide a clone to load AV RIGHT NOW. This is why supply depots get primaried by tanks that know their team won't hold it.
I'm the Rayman of uplinks.
21 day EVE trial.
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