DUST Search - AV feedback

Nothing Certain wrote:

Although it is out of the scope of your post, HAV/AV "balance" can't be achieved without changing the expectations of vehicle users. If they pay 500K for a vehicle and can only make 150K a match they understandably think that they should rarely be killed. You can't balance around that, they must be OP to achieve that. The price of well fitted vehicles should drop drastically, and they should expect to be roughly equivalent to a proto dropsuit in survivability.

Second, the "swarm problem" is less a problem with swarms themselves and more a problem of how easy it is to fit a SL at a SD and then go back to whatever. Remove this ability and only let those in dedicated swarm fits have them and almost all the problems are solved. Increased turn radius for swarms against DS is in order. A small change in profile damage making them more effective against shields and less effective against armor seems like it would help the armor/shield imbalance. Forge guns remain Ok, but with the Gunnloggi being prominent struggles. I personally found that BW eliminated my ability to play forge. I do not camp with the blues, I would set up nests in unlikely spots to ambush vehicles. This is no longer possible. If I play forge I spend the whole match looking for a hive.

Small turrets need some love across the board. Large Missile turrets seem to need some toning down.

What is needed is some data to look at to see how things are actually performing. Tankers say blasters are useless against infantry now, as infantry it seems to me that they are still overperforming. Who is right? The data knows.

Without it we are all just throwing darts with our bias blinders on.


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Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 345	Posted - 2015.01.25 03:41:00 - [1] - Quote AV is **** and doesnt work, and the AV v V balance makes playing in both roles unfun and boring. But since thats not very constructive Ill just say: Dropships are way too vulnerable to large railgun turrets. Swarm Launchers are not fun to use. Swarm Launchers are not fun to fight against. Plasma Cannon needs a major buff in anti vehicle damage to make it useful. Heavy Turrets (excluding possibly the blaster) do so much damage in such little time that it makes any vehicle v. vehicle engagement incredibly short (unless its all these dumb 8 billion ehp gunnlogi fit of the months everyone is using). The main problem with the breach forge gun is that it requires you to be still, this makes you an easy kill for the thing you are trying to kill, particularly large missile or large rail turrets. The large blaster turret needs the dispersion nerf to be at least partially rolled back. The damage profile debate on AV weapons vs. the overpowered gunnlogi is a red herring, the reality of the situation is the gunnlogi is just straight up way better than the madruger right now, and should be nerfed (10% less hardener effectiveness might be about right, but whatever works is fine by me). Small blaster turret is complete crap right now. Please fix/rework. Small railgun turret has something odd with where the projectile goes vs. where the dot is. Im not sure if it has dispersion or if its always 100% accurate, but even with a completely unmoving vehicle there are big problems with hitting people even when the dot is fully engulfed by the target and red. Hitting with this turret seems entirely random. This should be investigated and fixed. Small missile turrets need to be fixed to never, ever hit the dropship that fired them (Or is that intentional? Seems dumb). Buffing Nova Knife damage to vehicles would make them useful (50-100% more damage would not be out of the question). Since you have to break cover, run up to a vehicle, and slice it up to apply the damage, why isnt it doing more damage? A militia assault dropship would be welcome. Vehicle prices are too high for prototype stuff, this encourages conservative and unfun play. Thats it I guess, Im sure I have more in me but Im bored.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 345	Posted - 2015.01.25 03:50:00 - [2] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Although it is out of the scope of your post, HAV/AV "balance" can't be achieved without changing the expectations of vehicle users. If they pay 500K for a vehicle and can only make 150K a match they understandably think that they should rarely be killed. You can't balance around that, they must be OP to achieve that. The price of well fitted vehicles should drop drastically, and they should expect to be roughly equivalent to a proto dropsuit in survivability. Second, the "swarm problem" is less a problem with swarms themselves and more a problem of how easy it is to fit a SL at a SD and then go back to whatever. Remove this ability and only let those in dedicated swarm fits have them and almost all the problems are solved. Increased turn radius for swarms against DS is in order. A small change in profile damage making them more effective against shields and less effective against armor seems like it would help the armor/shield imbalance. Forge guns remain Ok, but with the Gunnloggi being prominent struggles. I personally found that BW eliminated my ability to play forge. I do not camp with the blues, I would set up nests in unlikely spots to ambush vehicles. This is no longer possible. If I play forge I spend the whole match looking for a hive. Small turrets need some love across the board. Large Missile turrets seem to need some toning down. What is needed is some data to look at to see how things are actually performing. Tankers say blasters are useless against infantry now, as infantry it seems to me that they are still overperforming. Who is right? The data knows. Without it we are all just throwing darts with our bias blinders on. In my tank I generally find it much easier to kill reds with a railgun turret these days. This has risks (its much easier to surprise and kill me with another tank if Im sitting there halfway through a reload after having made a bunch of noise and not really paying enough attention to whatever Im not shooting, but its still much more effective than the new blaster. You can still feather the blaster trigger to avoid alot of the dispersion, but it is significantly harder to hit infantry with it now, and you have to attack them from much closer (leaving you more vunlerable to AV return fire). At the same time its about the worst AV gun there is, lacking in range, damage output, and sustained damage. This turret has no purpose right now, and should be fixed in some way.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 351	Posted - 2015.01.26 15:33:00 - [3] - Quote Not sure why people are buttmad about the ability to lock on, then turn and shoot the swarms. If you have used swarms for more than a total of half a minute you'd know that its absolutely vital to be able to do this to direct the swarms around pipes, rails, walls, etc that are around the swarm user, otherwise swarms wouldnt be useful because half their damage would always go straight into the walls around whoever is firing them. Crazy Idea To Balance Swarms vs. Dropships: What if we imagine dropships (I dont care about tanks, **** tanks, they are fine vs. swarms as is) have some kind of passive anti lock system that prevents more than 4-6 swarm missiles at a time from being locked on? STICK WITH ME HERE. This means that the current balance of "if you gtfo immediately you will probably survive" vs. one swarm launcher is preserved, but it helps get rid of the situation where 2-3 swarmers all fire on you at the same time and you are screwed, and theres nothing you can do (which sucks and only really happens due to the near guaranteed hit factor on the first one or two volleys fired). This means some other form of AV would be required to ensure a kill, and it would have to be a "skill based" AV type.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 362	Posted - 2015.01.29 02:21:00 - [4] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: ^if you had dropped the hardener for a rep you wouldn't have lived, you were also aware that there would be inconing fire and were probably at a range where you could have broken lock via range. These situations seldom happen for ads because hovering at 170m means were not actually doing our jobs, we need to get much closer in order to do things like remove uplinks or support squadmates. Being blindsided by swarms at 70m will usually mean there's already a second volley in the air and a third locking. You said alot of words but all I read was "if you dont use your modules or react and you fit your dropship badly, you die". Well... duh.