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A reason to eliminate or alter "dead" skills

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Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6319	Posted - 2015.01.12 15:18:00 - [1] - Quote I am talking about skills that provide no bonus or benefit beyond being there for :reasons: I'm also talking about skills that have no benefit past level 3. Things like dropsuit command, frame skills and most of the vehicle tree. Kane Spero said it best: CCP is in the business of selling SP. Boosters are supposed to be one of the primary moneymakers. If none of the skills are "dead weight" or "useless" then players will have more of a reason to purchase boosters to fill out their skill trees. No one wants to buy boosters to fill out paywall skills that offer little benefit that could not be better obtained elsewhere such as dropsuit command 4, caldari medium frames 4, or HAV operation 2. the less "paywall" skills we have, and the more the skills we need benefit the player, the more impetus players feel to purchase boosters to help them fill out their trees, and the more funding CCP will get to improve the game. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1757	Posted - 2015.01.12 15:53:00 - [2] - Quote I like, those "empty" skills should give some bonus. give me a reason to max them out!
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4353	Posted - 2015.01.12 16:07:00 - [3] - Quote That's a very good perspective for CCP to see it from. If they're going to basically be selling you SP in the form of boosters, then every single SP needs to be worth something, and not just a means to earn the right to spend more SP. Otherwise players are paying for effectively nothing. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Ku Shala The Generals 1122	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:47:00 - [4] - Quote just make it so the first skill in the tree effects the operation of skill further down the tree. so if dropsuit operation was only at level3 then medium dropsuit operation could only go to level 3 and specialist medium dropsuit could only be level 3. to conform to people already skilled simply lose the bonus until you have the skills, so even if you have caldari assault level 5 if drop suit command was only level 4 you would only receive caldari assault bonus up to level 4 even though you have a proto suit. or if you had dropsuit command 5 and only level 3 in caldari medium frame you would only receive the caldari assault bonus up to level 3 even if you had level 5 *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist Burst RR should fire like a charge sniper
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 1119	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:13:00 - [5] - Quote It's like they had an idea for the skill tree but have changed their minds so many times that it has lost a lot of it's original intention. Knights of Ender Director Logi 4 Life \| Youtube Vids
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6340	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:47:00 - [6] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: passive bonuses are what ruins this game the skill tree does not need more unless they effect the isk cost of items in the market, passive bonuses are the reason there is such a gap between proto and basic That's your opinion. Not a fact. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Ku Shala The Generals 1122	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:56:00 - [7] - Quote so bonus stacking isnt the reason that proto stomping happens?bonus to suit base plus better modules with bonuses is not the reason that there is such a huge difference between a basic and proto fit? yes that is my opinion but them needing bonuses on all skills is yours, dont post if you dont want feedback *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist Burst RR should fire like a charge sniper
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6340	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:12:00 - [8] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: so bonus stacking isnt the reason that proto stomping happens?bonus to suit base plus better modules with bonuses is not the reason that there is such a huge difference between a basic and proto fit? yes that is my opinion but them needing bonuses on all skills is yours, dont post if you dont want feedback Actually it's neither one, nor the other. It's the two factors combined. One of the reasons why I'm interested in dropsuit tiericide is because that levels off some of the gear advantage by levelling off the arms & armor aspect of a protostomp. Levelling off the gear advantage will lessen the SP advantage natively. the second part of a protostomp (I consider the gear and SP disparity to be one issue) is new players are rarely in squads with coordinated effort. Solo players don't protostomp successfully because individuals caught on the battlefield alone can be picked off by newbies with a little luck, or planning with moderate difficulty. The true protostomp comes when you have six (or more in a successful q-sync) players who are on comms together and used to operating as a team in tandem, and overlap their attacks in concert with one another. An individual from Molon Labe, Nyain San, or any other corp, even the old imperfects by themselves isn't a particularly difficult target to pick off. When there's SIX of them, then you have to start worrying. But stomps don't happen because a guy can easily rock proto. I can easily rock proto, and i routinely rip peoples' balls off. But as I am alone I am vulnerable to those all-too-frequent occurrences where I encounter multiple people at once, am vulnerable due to having gotten into multiple fights and overextended myself and generally am not in a good position to win. Stomps happen when there are SIX guys like me, who all know what they need to do, and know the guy next to them is going to be doing his job, as expected, consistently. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16511	Posted - 2015.01.12 20:15:00 - [9] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I am talking about skills that provide no bonus or benefit beyond being there for :reasons: I'm also talking about skills that have no benefit past level 3. Things like dropsuit command, frame skills and most of the vehicle tree. Kane Spero said it best: CCP is in the business of selling SP. Boosters are supposed to be one of the primary moneymakers. If none of the skills are "dead weight" or "useless" then players will have more of a reason to purchase boosters to fill out their skill trees. No one wants to buy boosters to fill out paywall skills that offer little benefit that could not be better obtained elsewhere such as dropsuit command 4, caldari medium frames 4, or HAV operation 2. the less "paywall" skills we have, and the more the skills we need benefit the player, the more impetus players feel to purchase boosters to help them fill out their trees, and the more funding CCP will get to improve the game. I do admit it was nice when you unlocked content at I, III, and IV respectively while tier V was for the last rounding incremental increase to your statistics. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
pumping up Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 43	Posted - 2015.01.18 16:07:00 - [10] - Quote If we want to help new players out I can see 3 ways which connect quite with this point. remove dead skills, so people won't be fooled into spending sp uselessly move unlocking back to 1,3,4 - so new players will be able to catch up faster (level 5 can still be needed for officer weapons) change the scaling for SP needed from exponential to some linear factor

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4414	Posted - 2015.01.18 17:30:00 - [11] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: just make it so the first skill in the tree effects the operation of skill further down the tree. so if dropsuit operation was only at level3 then medium dropsuit operation could only go to level 3 and specialist medium dropsuit could only be level 3. to conform to people already skilled simply lose the bonus until you have the skills, so even if you have caldari assault level 5 if drop suit command was only level 4 you would only receive caldari assault bonus up to level 4 even though you have a proto suit. or if you had dropsuit command 5 and only level 3 in caldari medium frame you would only receive the caldari assault bonus up to level 3 even if you had level 5. passive bonuses are what ruins this game the skill tree does not need more unless they effect the isk cost of items in the market, passive bonuses are the reason there is such a gap between proto and basic How does this change anything? In fact it just makes it worse. You're still just training skills that do nothing just to spend more SP to get what you really wanted in the first place. You're basically required to train 2 skills to gain the benefit from 1. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 57	Posted - 2015.01.19 00:22:00 - [12] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: so bonus stacking isnt the reason that proto stomping happens?bonus to suit base plus better modules with bonuses is not the reason that there is such a huge difference between a basic and proto fit? yes that is my opinion but them needing bonuses on all skills is yours, dont post if you dont want feedback I think you'll find one of the biggest factors to proto stomping is actually the number of slots per suit. If all tiers had the same number of slots you would have a more even progression.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4414	Posted - 2015.01.19 01:28:00 - [13] - Quote You've basically got 4 factors working against new players 1. General understanding of Gameplay 2. Prototype Suits being able to fit more modules 3. Prototype suits being able to fit better modules 4. Passive Skill Bonuses 1 is just the nature of any game, so that's fine. 4 is just the nature of the skill system, and in actuality is more forgiving in many ways (Turret Operation in EVE is typically +5% Damage/Lvl and Proficiency is +10% Fire Rate) 2-3 is probably the biggest problem in my mind. Not only do lower tiered suits suffer from weaker modules, but less of them. This means that fitting is far more limited and boring than a proto suit, leaving generally less bonuses and utility than a Proto suit, even if the tier of module they're using is the same. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 15115	Posted - 2015.01.19 02:09:00 - [14] - Quote I'm in the market for Basic Dropsuit skills and other good ideas, I too think that there are too few unlocks at level 5, and that the level 2 and 4 gaps should have something. even if just half a % or something. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 163	Posted - 2015.01.19 02:15:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm in the market for Basic Dropsuit skills and other good ideas, I too think that there are too few unlocks at level 5, and that the level 2 and 4 gaps should have something. even if just half a % or something. I had an idea for Basic Dropsuit Frame skills (that should only affect basic frames): 2-3% CPU/PG per level...or something like that, to highlight them as versatile, unspecific frames... Efficacy bonuses, even if they are small, would be nice on equipment skills as well Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 533	Posted - 2015.01.19 02:26:00 - [16] - Quote Like + Bump.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10793	Posted - 2015.01.19 03:03:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm in the market for Basic Dropsuit skills and other good ideas, I too think that there are too few unlocks at level 5, and that the level 2 and 4 gaps should have something. even if just half a % or something. As an Eve Online player, I recommend borrowing a page from that game's skill system. Just like Dust, there are skill books that don't have any bonuses directly tied to them -- as in written in their description -- but the ships in Eve provide a bonus to players based on what skill level they have for that book. For example: Advanced Mining Barges (aka Exhumers) Skiff https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Skiff One of its bonuses include a 5% bonus to shield hitpoints per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. Mackinaw https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mackinaw 5% to ship ore hold capacity per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. Hulk https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Hulk 5% bonus to strip miner and ice harvester range per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. The point here is that Eve Online allows your ship to dictate the bonuses while at the same time some of the other skill books give bonuses of their own directly such as shield skills or missile skills. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
killian178 Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 78	Posted - 2015.01.19 04:24:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm in the market for Basic Dropsuit skills and other good ideas, I too think that there are too few unlocks at level 5, and that the level 2 and 4 gaps should have something. even if just half a % or something. I hate having no benefit at lvls 2 and 4, makes yhat last bit of grind to 5 seem not worth it Every commando k.o, every weapon at adv or above. Don't give a damn bout my kdr, I will kill you.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 18343	Posted - 2015.01.19 06:23:00 - [19] - Quote I want it in such a manner that every time you level a skill you get a pop up describing what you just got or did. Like Trained Gallente Medium Frames to lvl III Popup [Unlocked Access to Gallente Assault Skillbook] [Unlocked Advanced Gallente Frame] [(X) Confirm] CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
pumping up Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 54	Posted - 2015.01.19 06:27:00 - [20] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I want it in such a manner that every time you level a skill you get a pop up describing what you just got or did. Uh that would be nice. Would it only display things you can now use vor partially usable stuff aswell?

Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6585	Posted - 2015.01.19 06:33:00 - [21] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: things I agree with However after having talked to various humans, the skill system would need to be entirely rebuilt and the dropsuits reconfigured as well. If we had a large dev team, then yeah it'd probably be doable. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
pumping up Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 54	Posted - 2015.01.19 06:36:00 - [22] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: things I agree with However after having talked to various humans, the skill system would need to be entirely rebuilt and the dropsuits reconfigured as well. If we had a large dev team, then yeah it'd probably be doable. Thats why instead of overhauling it completely, we are band-aiding the issue. Better than nothing
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10800	Posted - 2015.01.19 06:52:00 - [23] - Quote I agree with Breakin regarding the Dev team size being a factor here. I just hope the Project Legion team is applying something like this for Legion at the very least. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
137H4RGIC Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 397	Posted - 2015.01.19 08:16:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm in the market for Basic Dropsuit skills and other good ideas, I too think that there are too few unlocks at level 5, and that the level 2 and 4 gaps should have something. even if just half a % or something. Dropsuit Command skill - the one that has no bonuses whatsoever. What if we could put that as 1% to dropsuit skill efficacy per level? Or something of that nature. Something that to train it to level V would be kind of an endgame goal to just push a little bit more oomph into your dropsuit? I want to help DUST become a better experience for everyone. Let's work together! 137H4RGIC - Running for CPM2 (SOONGäó)
pumping up Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 65	Posted - 2015.01.19 08:20:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm in the market for Basic Dropsuit skills and other good ideas, I too think that there are too few unlocks at level 5, and that the level 2 and 4 gaps should have something. even if just half a % or something. Maybe you should open a feedback sticky for that. Let your players do the work, gathering all skill (levels) which have no effect. Then let them propose bonuses :D
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6585	Posted - 2015.01.19 09:00:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm in the market for Basic Dropsuit skills and other good ideas, I too think that there are too few unlocks at level 5, and that the level 2 and 4 gaps should have something. even if just half a % or something. When I am done kit - bashing the vehicle proposal I'll be happy to pull crowdsource ideas together into something resembling a readable format if you would like. Damn IWS and his pointing out that I need militia mod stats. How am I supposed to keep claiming I'm a lazy git if I'm continually adding more important things rather than indulging in flights of fancy? Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 18347	Posted - 2015.01.19 09:01:00 - [27] - Quote pumping up wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I want it in such a manner that every time you level a skill you get a pop up describing what you just got or did. Uh that would be nice. Would it only display things you can now use vor partially usable stuff aswell? Things it will list Bonuses - example You gain +5% Reduction of Heat Buildup on all Laser Rifles Gear Access - Example you unlocked ELM-1 Advanced Laser Rifle Skill Book Access - Example You now have access to train Laser Rifle Proficiency Skill Book CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6585	Posted - 2015.01.19 09:02:00 - [28] - Quote Speak of the devil... Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Forlorn Destrier Incorruptibles 3188	Posted - 2015.01.19 14:05:00 - [29] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I'm in the market for Basic Dropsuit skills and other good ideas, I too think that there are too few unlocks at level 5, and that the level 2 and 4 gaps should have something. even if just half a % or something. As an Eve Online player, I recommend borrowing a page from that game's skill system. Just like Dust, there are skill books that don't have any bonuses directly tied to them -- as in written in their description -- but the ships in Eve provide a bonus to players based on what skill level they have for that book. For example: Advanced Mining Barges (aka Exhumers) Skiff https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Skiff One of its bonuses include a 5% bonus to shield hitpoints per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. Mackinaw https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mackinaw 5% to ship ore hold capacity per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. Hulk https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Hulk 5% bonus to strip miner and ice harvester range per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. The point here is that Eve Online allows your ship to dictate the bonuses while at the same time some of the other skill books give bonuses of their own directly such as shield skills or missile skills. So much win this in post. This is exactly how it should be. I am the *Forgotten Warhorse, a Lord of Lightning. Havok, my Destiny. I am Incorruptible*
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2798	Posted - 2015.01.19 18:55:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm in the market for Basic Dropsuit skills and other good ideas, I too think that there are too few unlocks at level 5, and that the level 2 and 4 gaps should have something. even if just half a % or something. There's tons of skills that offer 2%, 3% and 5% per level to something. I'm not calling you stupid, but that's 2 - 4 - 6 - 8 - 10% at level 5. Dunno what dropsuit skills you mean. Like the basic frames getting some sort of bonus? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10810	Posted - 2015.01.19 19:28:00 - [31] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I'm in the market for Basic Dropsuit skills and other good ideas, I too think that there are too few unlocks at level 5, and that the level 2 and 4 gaps should have something. even if just half a % or something. As an Eve Online player, I recommend borrowing a page from that game's skill system. Just like Dust, there are skill books that don't have any bonuses directly tied to them -- as in written in their description -- but the ships in Eve provide a bonus to players based on what skill level they have for that book. For example: Advanced Mining Barges (aka Exhumers) Skiff https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Skiff One of its bonuses include a 5% bonus to shield hitpoints per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. Mackinaw https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mackinaw 5% to ship ore hold capacity per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. Hulk https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Hulk 5% bonus to strip miner and ice harvester range per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. The point here is that Eve Online allows your ship to dictate the bonuses while at the same time some of the other skill books give bonuses of their own directly such as shield skills or missile skills. So much win this in post. This is exactly how it should be. EDIT: the only issue with this is the lack of specialized roles in Dust. I have the beginnings of an idea, and I will post later after I get my throughts worked through. The gist of it will be a way to make SP relevant in the short and long terms by adding bonuses to both skills (short term enhancement) and suits (long term enhancement). I'll work up the concept throughout the day and post later. While you're doing that, a little reminder is that Eve Online also features ships that have Multi-Racial bonuses. The Nestor, which is a battleship, is going for 1.3 Billion ISK in the market and that's just for the hull. But it carries two racial bonuses. 10% bonus to drone hit point and damage per level of the Gallente Battleship skill book. 4% bonus to all armor resistances per level of the Amarr Battleship skill book. These two books need to be trained in order to pilot the ship. And because it's a Multi-Racial ship, it's considered a Pirate Faction ship. Something for you to consider as well. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Skullmiser Vulcansu 255	Posted - 2015.01.19 20:36:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm in the market for Basic Dropsuit skills and other good ideas, I too think that there are too few unlocks at level 5, and that the level 2 and 4 gaps should have something. even if just half a % or something. I'd consider the amarr light frame suits if they had a CPU. Maybe give that specific suit more CPU per level? If this game was fun, I wouldn't be playing it.
Forlorn Destrier Incorruptibles 3189	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:30:00 - [33] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Forlorn Destrier wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I'm in the market for Basic Dropsuit skills and other good ideas, I too think that there are too few unlocks at level 5, and that the level 2 and 4 gaps should have something. even if just half a % or something. As an Eve Online player, I recommend borrowing a page from that game's skill system. Just like Dust, there are skill books that don't have any bonuses directly tied to them -- as in written in their description -- but the ships in Eve provide a bonus to players based on what skill level they have for that book. For example: Advanced Mining Barges (aka Exhumers) Skiff https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Skiff One of its bonuses include a 5% bonus to shield hitpoints per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. Mackinaw https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mackinaw 5% to ship ore hold capacity per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. Hulk https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Hulk 5% bonus to strip miner and ice harvester range per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. The point here is that Eve Online allows your ship to dictate the bonuses while at the same time some of the other skill books give bonuses of their own directly such as shield skills or missile skills. So much win this in post. This is exactly how it should be. EDIT: the only issue with this is the lack of specialized roles in Dust. I have the beginnings of an idea, and I will post later after I get my throughts worked through. The gist of it will be a way to make SP relevant in the short and long terms by adding bonuses to both skills (short term enhancement) and suits (long term enhancement). I'll work up the concept throughout the day and post later. While you're doing that, a little reminder is that Eve Online also features ships that have Multi-Racial bonuses. The Nestor, which is a battleship, is going for 1.3 Billion ISK in the market and that's just for the hull. But it carries two racial bonuses. 10% bonus to drone hit point and damage per level of the Gallente Battleship skill book. 4% bonus to all armor resistances per level of the Amarr Battleship skill book. These two books need to be trained in order to pilot the ship. And because it's a Multi-Racial ship, it's considered a Pirate Faction ship. Something for you to consider as well. Good points! Work ended up being a bear today so I haven't had time to sit down and work this through. Hopefully I can get it done while this is still a relevant discussion. I am the *Forgotten Warhorse, a Lord of Lightning. Havok, my Destiny. I am Incorruptible*
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1496	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:29:00 - [34] - Quote This sounds like a possibility for tech II variants introduction Also it would be nice if the skill tree for dropsuits and vehicles was more categorized, as in... Dropsuit Command - Minmatar - tech I (AKA basic suits with general bonuses) - Tech II (AKA racial suits) Amarr - Tech I - Tech II Caldari - Tech I - Tech II Gallente - Tech I - Tech II Same goes for vehicles except we should get rid of milita HAV's or bump up the pricing on them so they are not cheaper than a Proto suit and make the skill tree similar to how I recommended it to be above Making standard the tech I and specialized the tech II. And for the suits I was thinking we could have a "logi" basic frame unlocking at 2/3/5 with 2 equipment slots and 3 at level 5 skills If you'd like I can make a spread sheet about this SP earned perday/week
Forlorn Destrier Incorruptibles 3189	Posted - 2015.01.20 02:54:00 - [35] - Quote reserved I am the *Forgotten Warhorse, a Lord of Lightning. Havok, my Destiny. I am Incorruptible*
Forlorn Destrier Incorruptibles 3189	Posted - 2015.01.20 02:55:00 - [36] - Quote reserved I am the *Forgotten Warhorse, a Lord of Lightning. Havok, my Destiny. I am Incorruptible*
Forlorn Destrier Incorruptibles 3189	Posted - 2015.01.20 02:56:00 - [37] - Quote reserved I am the *Forgotten Warhorse, a Lord of Lightning. Havok, my Destiny. I am Incorruptible*
Forlorn Destrier Incorruptibles 3189	Posted - 2015.01.20 02:57:00 - [38] - Quote reserved I am the *Forgotten Warhorse, a Lord of Lightning. Havok, my Destiny. I am Incorruptible*
Forlorn Destrier Incorruptibles 3189	Posted - 2015.01.20 02:58:00 - [39] - Quote reserved I am the *Forgotten Warhorse, a Lord of Lightning. Havok, my Destiny. I am Incorruptible*
Forlorn Destrier Incorruptibles 3189	Posted - 2015.01.20 02:59:00 - [40] - Quote reserved I am the *Forgotten Warhorse, a Lord of Lightning. Havok, my Destiny. I am Incorruptible*

knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1497	Posted - 2015.01.20 04:20:00 - [41] - Quote Quote: Minmatar Tech II Medic Frame Bonus 1: 5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment per level of Minmatar Medium Dropsuit Skillbook Bonus 2: 10% bonus to shield injector range per level of Minmatar Logistics Skillbook (PRIMARY BONUS) Bonus 3: 5% reduction in repair tool cool down up per level of Minmatar Logistics Skillbook (SECONDARY BONUS) IMO, i think this one should have repair tool range and the amarr get repair tool cool-down and i was thinking for the assault variants (for the minmatar at least), all assaults get a cpu/pg reduction to thier racial weapon. Minmatar Tech I combat Frame Bonus 1: 5% reduction to pg/cpu to projectile and explosive weapons. Minmatar Tech II assault Frame Bonus 1: 5% reduction to pg/cpu to projectile and explosive weapons. Bonus 2: 5% bonus to projectile clip size per level Bonus 3: 5% bonus to shield rechargers/energizers recharge rate per level Minmatar Tech II marksman Frame Bonus 1: 5% reduction to pg/cpu to projectile and explosive weapons. Bonus 2: 2% bonus to optimal and effective range to projectile weapons Bonus 3: 3% reduction to dispersion to projectile weapons per level SP earned perday/week
pumping up Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 77	Posted - 2015.01.20 04:51:00 - [42] - Quote I don't want to hate your idea but that would be a lot of dev time. Plus it increases the skill gap between newbs and vets. Ps. Rare hybrid/pirate suits would be pimp.
Forlorn Destrier Incorruptibles 3195	Posted - 2015.01.20 05:42:00 - [43] - Quote pumping up wrote: I don't want to hate your idea but that would be a lot of dev time. Plus it increases the skill gap between newbs and vets. Ps. Rare hybrid/pirate suits would be pimp. My thoughts: 1: I agree it is a lot of Dev time. It took Eve 10 years to realize that Tiericide was needed. Dust needs to learn from that and start now while there are relatively small number of suits, compared to the dozens of ships that are in Eve. 2. I don't think it would increase the skill gap. First, the Prototype suits we have today would take more SP than the Tech II suits (Level 3 skill + Level 3 skill + Level 5 today, versus Level 1 + Level 5 + Level 1 after). Also, the "pointless" skills are giving a bonus in this model so those SP sinks are helping. Additonally, because you are in a specified role at Dropsuit Command level 1 + (racial) Logistics Dropsuit level 1 you now have newer players getting into specialized roles faster instead of generic Basic frames. The other part to this is this - the low end suits have fewer "hops" to get to the high end suits. Today we go Militia Basic > Standard Basic > Advanced Basic > Standard Logistics > Advanced Logistics > Prototype Logistics. If this change were implemented (however long it takes), you get this in terms of SP total required: Militia > Tech I > Tech II > Faction, and you get to the Tech I variant much faster than the similar Standard Logistics suit because all you need now is Dropsuit Command level 1 and (racial) Logistics level 1 instead of Dropsuit Command level 2 + (racial) Medium Dropsuit 3 + (racial) Logistics level 1. Also, because of this, it will be much easier to try out each racial suit before you over specialize. 3. Thanks for the pirate suit compliment. I am the *Forgotten Warhorse, a Lord of Lightning. Havok, my Destiny. I am Incorruptible*
Forlorn Destrier Incorruptibles 3195	Posted - 2015.01.20 05:47:00 - [44] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: Quote: Minmatar Tech II Medic Frame Bonus 1: 5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment per level of Minmatar Medium Dropsuit Skillbook Bonus 2: 10% bonus to shield injector range per level of Minmatar Logistics Skillbook (PRIMARY BONUS) Bonus 3: 5% reduction in repair tool cool down up per level of Minmatar Logistics Skillbook (SECONDARY BONUS) IMO, i think this one should have repair tool range and the amarr get repair tool cool-down and i was thinking for the assault variants (for the minmatar at least), all assaults get a cpu/pg reduction to thier racial weapon. Minmatar Tech I combat Frame Bonus 1: 5% reduction to pg/cpu to projectile and explosive weapons. Minmatar Tech II assault Frame Bonus 1: 5% reduction to pg/cpu to projectile and explosive weapons. Bonus 2: 5% bonus to projectile clip size per level Bonus 3: 5% bonus to shield rechargers/energizers recharge rate per level Minmatar Tech II marksman Frame Bonus 1: 5% reduction to pg/cpu to projectile and explosive weapons. Bonus 2: 2% bonus to optimal and effective range to projectile weapons Bonus 3: 3% reduction to dispersion to projectile weapons per level I did the Amarr with the cool down because they already have the cool down technology with the laser weapons. It seemed more thematically appropriate to me. Does that help you buy into it more? I haven't had a chance to look into the Assault Suits. Did you want me to work something up for them too? I can do that tomorrow if you like. Your ideas sound cool though. I am the *Forgotten Warhorse, a Lord of Lightning. Havok, my Destiny. I am Incorruptible*
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6620	Posted - 2015.01.20 08:39:00 - [45] - Quote This is a thread about dead skills, not post-level 5 content. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Forlorn Destrier Incorruptibles 3195	Posted - 2015.01.20 11:05:00 - [46] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: This is a thread about dead skills, not post-level 5 content. I apologized and proposed a way to fix some dead skills. I'll apologize again. I am the *Forgotten Warhorse, a Lord of Lightning. Havok, my Destiny. I am Incorruptible*
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1500	Posted - 2015.01.20 13:01:00 - [47] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: knight guard fury wrote: Quote: Minmatar Tech II Medic Frame Bonus 1: 5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment per level of Minmatar Medium Dropsuit Skillbook Bonus 2: 10% bonus to shield injector range per level of Minmatar Logistics Skillbook (PRIMARY BONUS) Bonus 3: 5% reduction in repair tool cool down up per level of Minmatar Logistics Skillbook (SECONDARY BONUS) IMO, i think this one should have repair tool range and the amarr get repair tool cool-down and i was thinking for the assault variants (for the minmatar at least), all assaults get a cpu/pg reduction to thier racial weapon. Minmatar Tech I combat Frame Bonus 1: 5% reduction to pg/cpu to projectile and explosive weapons. Minmatar Tech II assault Frame Bonus 1: 5% reduction to pg/cpu to projectile and explosive weapons. Bonus 2: 5% bonus to projectile clip size per level Bonus 3: 5% bonus to shield rechargers/energizers recharge rate per level Minmatar Tech II marksman Frame Bonus 1: 5% reduction to pg/cpu to projectile and explosive weapons. Bonus 2: 2% bonus to optimal and effective range to projectile weapons Bonus 3: 3% reduction to dispersion to projectile weapons per level I did the Amarr with the cool down because they already have the cool down technology with the laser weapons. It seemed more thematically appropriate to me. Does that help you buy into it more? I haven't had a chance to look into the Assault Suits. Did you want me to work something up for them too? I can do that tomorrow if you like. Your ideas sound cool though. Nah it's alright. I'll just make a spread sheet later SP earned perday/week
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Dust 63	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:33:00 - [48] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Forlorn Destrier wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I'm in the market for Basic Dropsuit skills and other good ideas, I too think that there are too few unlocks at level 5, and that the level 2 and 4 gaps should have something. even if just half a % or something. As an Eve Online player, I recommend borrowing a page from that game's skill system. Just like Dust, there are skill books that don't have any bonuses directly tied to them -- as in written in their description -- but the ships in Eve provide a bonus to players based on what skill level they have for that book. For example: Advanced Mining Barges (aka Exhumers) Skiff https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Skiff One of its bonuses include a 5% bonus to shield hitpoints per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. Mackinaw https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Mackinaw 5% to ship ore hold capacity per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. Hulk https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Hulk 5% bonus to strip miner and ice harvester range per level of the Mining Barge Skill Book. The point here is that Eve Online allows your ship to dictate the bonuses while at the same time some of the other skill books give bonuses of their own directly such as shield skills or missile skills. So much win this in post. This is exactly how it should be. EDIT: the only issue with this is the lack of specialized roles in Dust. I have the beginnings of an idea, and I will post later after I get my throughts worked through. The gist of it will be a way to make SP relevant in the short and long terms by adding bonuses to both skills (short term enhancement) and suits (long term enhancement). I'll work up the concept throughout the day and post later. While you're doing that, a little reminder is that Eve Online also features ships that have Multi-Racial bonuses. The Nestor, which is a battleship, is going for 1.3 Billion ISK in the market and that's just for the hull. But it carries two racial bonuses. 10% bonus to drone hit point and damage per level of the Gallente Battleship skill book. 4% bonus to all armor resistances per level of the Amarr Battleship skill book. These two books need to be trained in order to pilot the ship. And because it's a Multi-Racial ship, it's considered a Pirate Faction ship. Something for you to consider as well. I always believed that the tac ar, assault cr, assault rr, assault scr, and the like should be pirate weapons, and have the same skill type requirements. I would feel better when getting killed by them knowing that someone had to put in twice as many skill points to use it.
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1501	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:07:00 - [49] - Quote To be back on topic though, it would be reasonable if the basic frame got a bonus to more cup/pg per level and a (minimal) weapon bonus to their racial weapon SP earned perday/week
Forlorn Destrier Incorruptibles 3196	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:43:00 - [50] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: To be back on topic though, it would be reasonable if the basic frame got a bonus to more cup/pg per level and a (minimal) weapon bonus to their racial weapon Agreed. I am the *Forgotten Warhorse, a Lord of Lightning. Havok, my Destiny. I am Incorruptible*

Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6631	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:44:00 - [51] - Quote I think the basic frames should benefit from racial bonuses rather than a generic PG/CPU buff Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1501	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:48:00 - [52] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I think the basic frames should benefit from racial bonuses rather than a generic PG/CPU buff Trust me, the minmatar basic frame has the same issue that the assault did before the slot changes which is insufficient cpu when using certain amount of modules with high cpu demand. Especially on proto as I use it sometimes SP earned perday/week
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6631	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:49:00 - [53] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I think the basic frames should benefit from racial bonuses rather than a generic PG/CPU buff Trust me, the minmatar basic frame has the same issue that the assault did before the slot changes which is insufficient cpu when using certain amount of modules with high cpu demand. Especially on proto as I use it sometimes I've never run into this problem Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1501	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:00:00 - [54] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: knight guard fury wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I think the basic frames should benefit from racial bonuses rather than a generic PG/CPU buff Trust me, the minmatar basic frame has the same issue that the assault did before the slot changes which is insufficient cpu when using certain amount of modules with high cpu demand. Especially on proto as I use it sometimes I've never run into this problem Well it occurs more so if you have cup/pg upgrades below 3 but even still (when I'm using it) I am nearly almost always near the extent of my cpu. But I dont really run into insufficient cpu problem anymore since I have both cpu and ph to 3 now so it's really just a skill priority to get those up. So I suppose you are right that they don't really need a bonus towards cpu/pg. But yes a racial bonus would be nice based on how it has its slot layout or something similar. SP earned perday/week
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6632	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:03:00 - [55] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: knight guard fury wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I think the basic frames should benefit from racial bonuses rather than a generic PG/CPU buff Trust me, the minmatar basic frame has the same issue that the assault did before the slot changes which is insufficient cpu when using certain amount of modules with high cpu demand. Especially on proto as I use it sometimes I've never run into this problem Well it occurs more so if you have cup/pg upgrades below 3 but even still (when I'm using it) I am nearly almost always near the extent of my cpu. But I dont really run into insufficient cpu problem anymore since I have both cpu and ph to 3 now so it's really just a skill priority to get those up. So I suppose you are right that they don't really need a bonus towards cpu/pg. But yes a racial bonus would be nice based on how it has its slot layout or something similar. 5% at level 5 isn't going to change the CPU/PG counts significantly. You might get an extra point. It'll still be a dead skill with no benefit past 3 Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1502	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:35:00 - [56] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: knight guard fury wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: knight guard fury wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I think the basic frames should benefit from racial bonuses rather than a generic PG/CPU buff Trust me, the minmatar basic frame has the same issue that the assault did before the slot changes which is insufficient cpu when using certain amount of modules with high cpu demand. Especially on proto as I use it sometimes I've never run into this problem Well it occurs more so if you have cup/pg upgrades below 3 but even still (when I'm using it) I am nearly almost always near the extent of my cpu. But I dont really run into insufficient cpu problem anymore since I have both cpu and ph to 3 now so it's really just a skill priority to get those up. So I suppose you are right that they don't really need a bonus towards cpu/pg. But yes a racial bonus would be nice based on how it has its slot layout or something similar. 5% at level 5 isn't going to change the CPU/PG counts significantly. You might get an extra point. It'll still be a dead skill with no benefit past 3 I never said anything about it being 5% at 5, but 5 per level is somewhat significant. I can see certain fittings with certain modules would cause fitting problems, but you can either change the guy or use a lesser version of that module. SP earned perday/week
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6636	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:49:00 - [57] - Quote won't happen. CCP wants fitting to be tight in certain ways on each suit. Speed tanking past a certain point actually breaks hit detection, for instance. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1502	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:40:00 - [58] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: won't happen. CCP wants fitting to be tight in certain ways on each suit. Speed tanking past a certain point actually breaks hit detection, for instance. Yes, but no suit will go past 11.11 meters and the only suit that can meet that speed is the minmatar scout. If armor plate affected inertia and mass based on frame size than hit detection wouldn't be as big of a deal with tanked scouts speed strafing by bullets. And we have already said the suits don't necessarily need a bonus to cpu/pg, let's move past this. Ideally if they had bonus's that benefited the race than that would be fine. But what I'm thinking is should they have just one bonus or should they am have two bonuses that benefit them but doesn't specialize them very much at all SP earned perday/week
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10823	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:43:00 - [59] - Quote pumping up wrote: Ps. Rare hybrid/pirate suits would be pimp. The concept of having a hybrid/pirate suit would be excellent. Imagine a Caldari Dropsuit with bonuses from both the Caldari and the Amarr, or a Minmatar Dropsuit with the combined bonuses from that of the Minmatar and Gallente. Imagine players with Sansha's Nation Dropsuits or with Dread Guristas Dropsuits or Mordu's Legion Dropsuits. It would really change things up. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1504	Posted - 2015.01.21 02:09:00 - [60] - Quote Can we please get back on topic for what the skills should be for the rest of the frames. (Including light and heavy) (Edit: otherwise I'm going to make ideas for what they should be) SP earned perday/week

Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5697	Posted - 2015.01.21 06:07:00 - [61] - Quote Dropsuit Command: Unlocks Lights, Mediums, abs Heavies at their respective levels. +2% resell value of suit [Racial] [Size] Frames: Unlocks tiers. Improves Loyalist Module Performance per level. (For example, a Gallente Medium would get more repair out of a Federation Repair Module, while scout gets a bonus to kincats, and heavies get bonus to reactive plates) [Equipment] Command: Unlocks tiers. Decreases cooldown, increases Nanite pulse rate, merc revival animation speed buff, link scan radius, repair range increase. Weaponry: Unlocks usage of different sized weapons. Increases zoom fidelity per level (sorry FG) I have no idea about vehicles. Keep in mind, I'm pulling these out of my as-... as-... assassin's personal thought diary.
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1505	Posted - 2015.01.23 22:33:00 - [62] - Quote 'Reserved' I think the skills for dropsuit command should be passive, but also it shouldn't be anything that will give you an over all advantage over anyone SP earned perday/week
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1505	Posted - 2015.01.23 23:39:00 - [63] - Quote I am thinking along the lines of Dropsuit Command: Bonus: 1% increase to movement speed and 3% Increase to hand to hand combat per level Caldari medium frame: Bonus: 3% reduction to cpu cost of shield extenders Caldari heavy frame: Bonus: 3% reduction to forge guns rapid reload Caldari light frame: Bonus: ? Minmatar medium frame: Bonus: 2% increase to projectile weapons optimal and effective range and 5% increase to shield recharge Minmatar heavy frame: Bonus: 3% decrease to HMG heat build up Minmatar light frame: Bonus: 3% increase to shield regulators and 5% reduction to Kenetic Katalyzers PG Amarr medium frame: Bonus: 3% reduction to armor plate movement penalty and 3% to scrambler rifle clip size Amarr heavy frame: Bonus: 3% reduction to armor plate penalty Amarr light frame: Bonus: 3% reduction to cpu of damage modifiers 3% increase to armor plates(specifically Ferroscale and reactive) Gallente medium frame: Bonus: 3% increase to armor repair modules Gallente heavy frame: Bonus: 2% reduction to armor plate PG Gallente light frame: Bonus: 3% reduction to profile dampers PG and 3% reduction to ion pistol dispersion I'm wasn't too sure whether to give somebody them these bonuses but these are fairly decently the best I could think of. Also I have a few in mind but would need specific changes to certain equipment or modules to the game SP earned perday/week


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