DUST Search - Sticky:[Announcement] Balance Hotfix 1.10.2

BL4CKST4R wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

Fox Gaden wrote:

Well I mostly used the Burst HMG anyway, so this is a buff for me, but I am concerned that increasing heat buildup that much on the base model HMG will greatly reduce its effectiveness as a sustained fire suppression weapon. I would have been more inclined to leave the heat where it was and add a short spool up time so that the rate of fire would start low and take a fraction of a second to get up to speed.

By nerfing heat on the base HMG and buffing Heat on the Burst HMG you are making these weapons more similar, when the HMG is supposed to be more of a suppression weapon and the Burst is supposed to be more of a 1v1 weapon.

HMG is not a suppression weapon currently, it's a destroy anything in its path weapon and far too forgiving. I like the damage part that way, but not for such a long sustainable time. If I wanted it to suppress, I would decrease damage per round. You can still hold the trigger down for many seconds, especially with skills. And I speak for myself when I declare that spooling is terrible. I think everyone was happy when it was removed, but anything is possible.

Hmg is anything but forgiving

"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 17 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 13746	Posted - 2014.12.17 09:32:00 - [1] - Quote The following balance tweaks were extracted from the feedback thread about Hotfix Echo and will be included in a TQ Hotfix today. The remaining issues will be deferred into the next Hotfix, whether that's named or not. The details can be found in the following spreadsheet. Hotfix 1.10.2 Thanks for the feedback! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Funkmaster Whale Whale Pod 2681	Posted - 2014.12.17 09:34:00 - [2] - Quote reserved Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Macchi00 LORD-BRITISH Couedic Lancer And Shields 133	Posted - 2014.12.17 10:53:00 - [3] - Quote HMG heat increased I would like to thank this change. Their joint warfare capability was threat. I love ForgeGun. I made ForgeGun montage in YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIhuGxfbjSQ
iKILLu osborne Titans of Phoenix 532	Posted - 2014.12.17 11:04:00 - [4] - Quote having trouble loading google docs, what is the damage profile for packed remote explosives and activation time? if you shoot me from the redline i will ensure your death will be a swift one
Kain Spero Goonfeet 3973	Posted - 2014.12.17 11:24:00 - [5] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: having trouble loading google docs, what is the damage profile for packed remote explosives and activation time? 1625 / 1950 / 2275 All have 3 second activation times and a 0.1 blast radius. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Sinboto Simmons Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 6948	Posted - 2014.12.17 12:54:00 - [6] - Quote Blink that was fast, check those new REs when I get back. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 Born of the Brutor tribe
Al the destroyer NECROM0NGERS 213	Posted - 2014.12.17 12:59:00 - [7] - Quote All these changes look good I'm excited to try those new packed remotes, tank go BOOM
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 3200	Posted - 2014.12.17 13:03:00 - [8] - Quote Are those RE's activation delay started once they're thrown, or once they're on the ground? 99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1419	Posted - 2014.12.17 13:11:00 - [9] - Quote Y u decreasing Scrambler Clip size? Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1246	Posted - 2014.12.17 13:21:00 - [10] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Y u decreasing Scrambler Clip size? Normalizing damage per clip.

Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 613	Posted - 2014.12.17 13:24:00 - [11] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Zindorak wrote: Y u decreasing Scrambler Clip size? Normalizing damage per clip. derp EDIT: Let's put dat Burst AR on my CalAssault "Balance" is a mythical word
Isa Lucifer Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 136	Posted - 2014.12.17 13:36:00 - [12] - Quote good stuff ccp! Amarr Victor
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 630	Posted - 2014.12.17 13:39:00 - [13] - Quote Cross pollinating with my future ASCR proposal here. My spreadsheets had the ASCR damage at 34.1 ADV and 36.4 Proto. I will adjust my spreadsheet of course, but this difference still will not account for the massive disparity in damage output penalty same tier rifles. If we takes the closest example: As of today the New Proto ASCR prof V does 393.97 vs Armor The Proto rail rifle does 434.7 vs shields: goes from doing it will still do 40.73 more damage than the proto ASCR does to armor. The ADV rail rifle does 392.9 vs shields: Today's Proto ASCR beats it by 1.07 hp. The rest of the ADV rifles still out DPS the Proto ASCR completely. I know this isnt the full balancing pass, but just giving you a heads up. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 613	Posted - 2014.12.17 13:46:00 - [14] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Cross pollinating with my future ASCR proposal here. My spreadsheets had the ASCR damage at 34.1 ADV and 36.4 Proto. I will adjust my spreadsheet of course, but this difference still will not account for the massive disparity in damage output penalty same tier rifles. If we takes the closest example: As of today the New Proto ASCR prof V does 393.97 vs Armor The Proto rail rifle does 434.7 vs shields: goes from doing it will still do 40.73 more damage than the proto ASCR does to armor. The ADV rail rifle does 392.9 vs shields: Today's Proto ASCR beats it by 1.07 hp. The rest of the ADV rifles still out DPS the Proto ASCR completely. I know this isnt the full balancing pass, but just giving you a heads up. Why are you comparing a +20% \| -20% damage profile weapon to a -10% \| +10% expecting them to have the same DPS respectively on armor and on shields? "Balance" is a mythical word
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5457	Posted - 2014.12.17 13:56:00 - [15] - Quote Well I mostly used the Burst HMG anyway, so this is a buff for me, but I am concerned that increasing heat buildup that much on the base model HMG will greatly reduce its effectiveness as a sustained fire suppression weapon. I would have been more inclined to leave the heat where it was and add a short spool up time so that the rate of fire would start low and take a fraction of a second to get up to speed. By nerfing head on the base HMG and buffing Heat on the Burst HMG you are making these weapons more similar, when the HMG is supposed to be more of a suppression weapon and the Burst is supposed to be more of a 1v1 weapon. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 13752	Posted - 2014.12.17 14:24:00 - [16] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Well I mostly used the Burst HMG anyway, so this is a buff for me, but I am concerned that increasing heat buildup that much on the base model HMG will greatly reduce its effectiveness as a sustained fire suppression weapon. I would have been more inclined to leave the heat where it was and add a short spool up time so that the rate of fire would start low and take a fraction of a second to get up to speed. By nerfing heat on the base HMG and buffing Heat on the Burst HMG you are making these weapons more similar, when the HMG is supposed to be more of a suppression weapon and the Burst is supposed to be more of a 1v1 weapon. HMG is not a suppression weapon currently, it's a destroy anything in its path weapon and far too forgiving. I like the damage part that way, but not for such a long sustainable time. If I wanted it to suppress, I would decrease damage per round. You can still hold the trigger down for many seconds, especially with skills. And I speak for myself when I declare that spooling is terrible. I think everyone was happy when it was removed, but anything is possible. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1119	Posted - 2014.12.17 14:39:00 - [17] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Well I mostly used the Burst HMG anyway, so this is a buff for me, but I am concerned that increasing heat buildup that much on the base model HMG will greatly reduce its effectiveness as a sustained fire suppression weapon. I would have been more inclined to leave the heat where it was and add a short spool up time so that the rate of fire would start low and take a fraction of a second to get up to speed. By nerfing heat on the base HMG and buffing Heat on the Burst HMG you are making these weapons more similar, when the HMG is supposed to be more of a suppression weapon and the Burst is supposed to be more of a 1v1 weapon. If HMG is a suppression weapon I am a koala One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3483	Posted - 2014.12.17 14:50:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Well I mostly used the Burst HMG anyway, so this is a buff for me, but I am concerned that increasing heat buildup that much on the base model HMG will greatly reduce its effectiveness as a sustained fire suppression weapon. I would have been more inclined to leave the heat where it was and add a short spool up time so that the rate of fire would start low and take a fraction of a second to get up to speed. By nerfing heat on the base HMG and buffing Heat on the Burst HMG you are making these weapons more similar, when the HMG is supposed to be more of a suppression weapon and the Burst is supposed to be more of a 1v1 weapon. HMG is not a suppression weapon currently, it's a destroy anything in its path weapon and far too forgiving. I like the damage part that way, but not for such a long sustainable time. If I wanted it to suppress, I would decrease damage per round. You can still hold the trigger down for many seconds, especially with skills. And I speak for myself when I declare that spooling is terrible. I think everyone was happy when it was removed, but anything is possible. Hmg is anything but forgiving supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1404	Posted - 2014.12.17 14:53:00 - [19] - Quote Are the armor penalties to strafing across the board or different by weight class of suit? I'm a little concerned for my Gallente Logi builds...they are already pretty slow footed and this will further hurt survivability. I've tried ferro scales and they just don't have enough hp to keep me alive long enough. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y General Tso's Alliance 316	Posted - 2014.12.17 15:03:00 - [20] - Quote Please stop screwing with my Heavy suit, just because everyone who thinks they shouldn't die running directly into a mini gun is pitching a fit. Why not just remove the thing and give me a stick to beat people with? If you really want to do something productive with the HMG, use the real world application of it. It should have no accuracy over 20m and should turn anything at close range into Swiss cheese. I suggest you and everyone else here youtube "minigun" and then consider what it would be like standing in front of it. Also, if your going to make me slower then give me more armor. The rabbit complaining that the turtle has a shell is a stupid argument to actually consider legitimate. G.L.O.R.Y Soldier, I'm that Amarr heavy you warn your team about <3 -Heavy/Logi/Assault/Scout-

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5457	Posted - 2014.12.17 15:12:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Well I mostly used the Burst HMG anyway, so this is a buff for me, but I am concerned that increasing heat buildup that much on the base model HMG will greatly reduce its effectiveness as a sustained fire suppression weapon. I would have been more inclined to leave the heat where it was and add a short spool up time so that the rate of fire would start low and take a fraction of a second to get up to speed. By nerfing heat on the base HMG and buffing Heat on the Burst HMG you are making these weapons more similar, when the HMG is supposed to be more of a suppression weapon and the Burst is supposed to be more of a 1v1 weapon. HMG is not a suppression weapon currently, it's a destroy anything in its path weapon and far too forgiving. I like the damage part that way, but not for such a long sustainable time. If I wanted it to suppress, I would decrease damage per round. You can still hold the trigger down for many seconds, especially with skills. And I speak for myself when I declare that spooling is terrible. I think everyone was happy when it was removed, but anything is possible. I did not skill into the HMG until Uprising 1.3, so I had not realized that spooling had been tried in the past. If you say you have tried the HMG with a spooling function and it was terrible, then I am inclined to believe you. Anyway, lets see how this heat change plays out, since it is implemented now. At least it will make the HMG more of a player skill based weapon. If the HMG stays this way it would be interesting some day to introduce a Sentinel variant suit that has a Heat Buildup bonus, but no resist bonuses. More of a glass cannon variant. Easier but weaker. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 2698	Posted - 2014.12.17 15:13:00 - [22] - Quote All good stuff, as usual these days... (I haven't tested 1.10 yet due to being on the other side of the planet for a month.) I have one issue though, the total ammo count of the Tac AR and the regular Scr. I do understsnd why you've reduced total ammo, for balancing reasons, for me its a shame, l now might have to put a hive on that fitting..... My point is that it was very nice to have 1 gun which wasn't reliant on a damned nonohive. I've had an active scanner-Tac ar OR active scanner - Scr fit, well since before launch actually. So yeah, this is a stronly personal issue, I will miss the scanner asault fits deeply. The only viable pieze of equipment on an assault suit with racial rifles now is more ammo, well, unless you're the sort of player who dies a lot or always have a logi in squad to mooch off. Spkr4theDead wrote: Says the guy that was quitting the game because CCP were nerfing fused locus grenades.
Jack 3enimble Titans of Phoenix 628	Posted - 2014.12.17 15:20:00 - [23] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Cross pollinating with my future ASCR proposal here. My spreadsheets had the ASCR damage at 34.1 ADV and 36.4 Proto. I will adjust my spreadsheet of course, but this difference still will not account for the massive disparity in damage output penalty same tier rifles. If we takes the closest example: As of today the New Proto ASCR prof V does 393.97 vs Armor The Proto rail rifle does 434.7 vs shields: goes from doing it will still do 40.73 more damage than the proto ASCR does to armor. The ADV rail rifle does 392.9 vs shields: Today's Proto ASCR beats it by 1.07 hp. The rest of the ADV rifles still out DPS the Proto ASCR completely. I know this isnt the full balancing pass, but just giving you a heads up. Why are you comparing a +20% \| -20% damage profile weapon to a -10% \| +10% expecting them to have the same DPS respectively on armor and on shields? EDIT: Also those numbers are way off. The proto RR has a 357.92 DPS againts shields and a cumulative DPS of 397. The current AScR DPS is at 420.59 and it has a 336 DPS againts armor due to its damage profile (it does 504.7 DPS on shields indeed). Intended. I know right. Just some more rail QQ Dealing justice with a swift punch in the balls, now in battles near you! Lord of the Links
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5648	Posted - 2014.12.17 15:23:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: And I speak for myself when I declare that spooling is terrible. I think everyone was happy when it was removed, but anything is possible. You know the spooling mechanic is used in one of the most successful F2P FPS to date, right? (Team Fortress 2) It's a good mechanic. Really. My advice to you, playa...
Dingleburt Bangledack 340	Posted - 2014.12.17 15:33:00 - [25] - Quote KingBabar wrote: ... My point is that it was very nice to have 1 gun which wasn't reliant on a damned nonohive. I've had an active scanner-Tac ar OR active scanner - Scr fit, well since before launch actually. So yeah, this is a stronly personal issue, I will miss the scanner asault fits deeply. ... The ScR's magazine went from 45 to 30 and it's total ammo went from 225 to 210. It only lost a total of 30 rounds so you should still be fine with a scanner. (Atleast I will, having my ScR Ammo skill at Lvl 4 ) The TacAR, however, got hit pretty hard in the ammo department... I can't really see why, either.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 13760	Posted - 2014.12.17 15:54:00 - [26] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Are the armor penalties to strafing across the board or different by weight class of suit? I'm a little concerned for my Gallente Logi builds...they are already pretty slow footed and this will further hurt survivability. I've tried ferro scales and they just don't have enough hp to keep me alive long enough. not forward speed, just strafe "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 13760	Posted - 2014.12.17 15:57:00 - [27] - Quote KingBabar wrote: All good stuff, as usual these days... (I haven't tested 1.10 yet due to being on the other side of the planet for a month.) I have one issue though, the total ammo count of the Tac AR and the regular Scr. I do understsnd why you've reduced total ammo, for balancing reasons, for me its a shame, l now might have to put a hive on that fitting..... My point is that it was very nice to have 1 gun which wasn't reliant on a damned nonohive. I've had an active scanner-Tac ar OR active scanner - Scr fit, well since before launch actually. So yeah, this is a stronly personal issue, I will miss the scanner asault fits deeply. The only viable pieze of equipment on an assault suit with racial rifles now is more ammo, well, unless you're the sort of player who dies a lot or always have a logi in squad to mooch off. I am hoping this will help a little with the super trigger spammy scr cqc usage (that I am guilty of like anyone else) and make players conserve their ammo a little bit more. Try it and see if it pans out. One idea that's floating out there is to create ammo modules. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 13771	Posted - 2014.12.17 15:59:00 - [28] - Quote Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: KingBabar wrote: ... My point is that it was very nice to have 1 gun which wasn't reliant on a damned nonohive. I've had an active scanner-Tac ar OR active scanner - Scr fit, well since before launch actually. So yeah, this is a stronly personal issue, I will miss the scanner asault fits deeply. ... The ScR's magazine went from 45 to 30 and it's total ammo went from 225 to 210. It only lost a total of 30 rounds so you should still be fine with a scanner. (Atleast I will, having my ScR Ammo skill at Lvl 4 ) The TacAR, however, got hit pretty hard in the ammo department... I can't really see why, either. It was an error, why should that, the only weapon have 12 clips to ammo ratio, where everyone else had 5-6-7. It was inheriting the 300 ammo from the Assault Rifle so was fixed, not a specific nerf in that sense. It should have been even lower with 18 in the clip, so was actually buffed with the increase to 24. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 13771	Posted - 2014.12.17 16:00:00 - [29] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Well I mostly used the Burst HMG anyway, so this is a buff for me, but I am concerned that increasing heat buildup that much on the base model HMG will greatly reduce its effectiveness as a sustained fire suppression weapon. I would have been more inclined to leave the heat where it was and add a short spool up time so that the rate of fire would start low and take a fraction of a second to get up to speed. By nerfing heat on the base HMG and buffing Heat on the Burst HMG you are making these weapons more similar, when the HMG is supposed to be more of a suppression weapon and the Burst is supposed to be more of a 1v1 weapon. HMG is not a suppression weapon currently, it's a destroy anything in its path weapon and far too forgiving. I like the damage part that way, but not for such a long sustainable time. If I wanted it to suppress, I would decrease damage per round. You can still hold the trigger down for many seconds, especially with skills. And I speak for myself when I declare that spooling is terrible. I think everyone was happy when it was removed, but anything is possible. Hmg is anything but forgiving If I want to feel better about myself and get some guaranteed kills, I go sent-hmg. That's how forgiving it is. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y General Tso's Alliance 323	Posted - 2014.12.17 16:01:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Are the armor penalties to strafing across the board or different by weight class of suit? I'm a little concerned for my Gallente Logi builds...they are already pretty slow footed and this will further hurt survivability. I've tried ferro scales and they just don't have enough hp to keep me alive long enough. not forward speed, just strafe So, if I move in diagonals instead of just hard right to left, am I still effected by the penalty? G.L.O.R.Y Soldier, I'm that Amarr heavy you warn your team about <3 -Heavy/Logi/Assault/Scout-



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