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Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6395	Posted - 2015.01.14 05:19:00 - [1021] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: the HP bonus to the Sagaris compounded would almost double it's EHP from chrome levels Laser strike = Rattati's own words. That's not a justification for making them overpowered against everything else. Dunno what you don't understand about his own words. I escaped the edge of a laser strike in a Maddy, because I think quickly and had my NOS ready to go. Problem was there was a tank not far, so I had to engage it with very little health. Next you're going to say quick thinking is OP. Again, I don't understand what you don't understand about his own words. he wants to double the EHP of marauders from their chrome stats. This is not in any way balanced, nor should it be considered in any way a sane proposal. If you said orbital strikes do 50% less damage I would be on board. But not doubling the EHP. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2736	Posted - 2015.01.14 05:44:00 - [1022] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: he wants to double the EHP of marauders from their chrome stats. Rattati wanted proposals, now he's working on his own. We don't know what modules he's considering, or slot layouts, or the bonuses the vehicles will have. If he wants the Marauders to remain 3/2 and 2/3, then yeah, they must have huge base HP to be (again, in his own words) mammoth tanks easily dispatched by a laser strike. I keep having to bring up things that Rattati has said he wants for vehicles. Why do you keep ignoring his vision? This is not in any way balanced, nor should it be considered in any way a sane proposal. 1.7 wasn't a sane hotfix. If you said orbital strikes do 50% less damage I would be on board. But not doubling the EHP. If I can escape a laser in a trash Maddy, then a Marauder should have a much better chance with all modules active as well as a NOS. Even now, warbarge strikes are child's play. Of course, you don't want Rattati's proposed mammoth tanks to have HP worthy of being considered 'mammoth'. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6395	Posted - 2015.01.14 06:11:00 - [1023] - Quote Lazer fo cused's proposal DOUBLES MARAUDER EHP FROM CHROMOSOME LEVELS. What is so hard to comprehend about this? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2265	Posted - 2015.01.14 06:15:00 - [1024] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: I don't want to nerf them at all but unfortunately what we have in Dust I have come to understand are not tanks. Large Missiles if you can call them that since they are actually more akin to Rocket Launchers not only have too much DPS (3361 vs Shields and 4550 vs Armour) but also do not function like a Main Tanks gun. They are inappropriate for the role as the main gun of a tank and unbalance tank combat greatly. Missiles are tank mounted swarms that actually require aim and timing, don't have a 400m range, and don't ignore obstacles and terrain. I'm proud to be able to use missiles. Hell, I can use all the turrets with deadly proficiency. So can I but it's not right that Missiles have a potential TTK of less than 3 seconds VS one specific type of vehicle (when only two are present in the game). It would also not be right if CCP released the Laser Turret and it was capable of dealing 4500 damage per second to shields. I mean unmodified PRO Missiles deals 3.5 times more DPS than PRO Railguns and almost 4x as much DPS as Blasters. Looking at the spectrum of Large Turrets in the game the DPS values a the opposites in terms of DPS to what they should be. Missiles unfortunately are the be all end all of most tank battles. I'd rather they simply be one option of many. Large railguns have 2 times more damage per clip and large blasters have about 4 times more damage per clip than a large missile turret clip. Stop saying that large missiles have huge DPS. They only have high ALPHA, not DPS. DPS doesn't count if it's just for a second or two. And why do you keep crying that large missiles are the "be all end all"? A railgun Gunnlogi clearly wins the majority of the time in any vehicle engagement. Particle cannons basically guarantee you a kill against both armor and shield vehicles, not just armor vehicles like large missiles. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 706	Posted - 2015.01.14 06:42:00 - [1025] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Lazer fo cused's proposal DOUBLES MARAUDER EHP FROM CHROMOSOME LEVELS. What is so hard to comprehend about this? Agreed, this is completley unacceptable. Muh Orbitals are a poor reason to advocate this. In fact, i would ignore the impact that orbitals have completley on tank balance, orbitals are supossed to kill everything in its blast radius. if you want to bring out a devastating tank but its too slow to escape, and it gets nuked, its called a sad day for you. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1327	Posted - 2015.01.14 07:03:00 - [1026] - Quote one question? can there be a new control scheme added for vehicles? specifically modeled after battlefield with a left shoulders brake/reverse and a right r2 acceleration button? considering one of the tank destroyers would be aimed through actual positioning of the vehicle. itd be cool to have the turret only move marginally with the right stick for fine adjustments, (20-30degrees max) and use left stick for steering/aiming and positioning with l1 l2 for break and reverse, make r2 accelerate and r1 becomes the new module radial. unless the halfway analog deadzone has been addressed already, cause currently theyre just a pain to drive. i cant imagine trying to use the destroyer with the current scheme. i need to be able to stop on a dime and reverse if my gun cant be aimed well. thats how tank hunting in battlefield is. you play peekaboo. drive out, pop someone with the gun, and while its reloaded you haul it back before he can turn and kill you and its back to cat and mouse. thats how i see the enforcers at least. ive wanted a dedicated tank destroyer for sometime. i initially saw it as the medium assault vehicle fitted with a large cannon av turret. mobile, low health, easy to sneakup on a tank and mess it up and spider away quickly when people realize youre there. dampened and quiet until you start firing. marauders... well thats self explanatory. in eve a marauder is a battleship with a bastion module. make them a bit slower and give them an immobilizing bastion module that increase defense and allows them to effectively be a larger turret for point defense. set it up on a road, the tank lowers, its armor plates move a little to create full coverage and then its a larger unmoveable turret as long as the modules active. otherwise they should just be very slow moving high hp. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6396	Posted - 2015.01.14 07:07:00 - [1027] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: one question? can there be a new control scheme added for vehicles? specifically modeled after battlefield with a left shoulders brake/reverse and a right r2 acceleration button? considering one of the tank destroyers would be aimed through actual positioning of the vehicle. itd be cool to have the turret only move marginally with the right stick for fine adjustments, (20-30degrees max) and use left stick for steering/aiming and positioning with l1 l2 for break and reverse, make r2 accelerate and r1 becomes the new module radial. unless the halfway analog deadzone has been addressed already, cause currently theyre just a pain to drive. i cant imagine trying to use the destroyer with the current scheme. i need to be able to stop on a dime and reverse if my gun cant be aimed well. thats how tank hunting in battlefield is. you play peekaboo. drive out, pop someone with the gun, and while its reloaded you haul it back before he can turn and kill you and its back to cat and mouse. thats how i see the enforcers at least. ive wanted a dedicated tank destroyer for sometime. i initially saw it as the medium assault vehicle fitted with a large cannon av turret. mobile, low health, easy to sneakup on a tank and mess it up and spider away quickly when people realize youre there. dampened and quiet until you start firing. marauders... well thats self explanatory. in eve a marauder is a battleship with a bastion module. make them a bit slower and give them an immobilizing bastion module that increase defense and allows them to effectively be a larger turret for point defense. set it up on a road, the tank lowers, its armor plates move a little to create full coverage and then its a larger unmoveable turret as long as the modules active. otherwise they should just be very slow moving high hp. bastion modules are nonviable in DUST. They would allow AV gunners to trivially kill vehicles. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1328	Posted - 2015.01.14 07:12:00 - [1028] - Quote also as for the missile turret. i think it should be redsigned along with an assault variant of the swarm launcher. give it a laser designator. that you piant the target vehicle with. the missiles fly out and follow the laser point this way its actually guided missiles and not just dumbfire rockets. then rebalance accordingly cause they can be aimed at long range, as missiles should be long range weapons and reduce the damage they can deal up close. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1328	Posted - 2015.01.14 07:18:00 - [1029] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: one question? can there be a new control scheme added for vehicles? specifically modeled after battlefield with a left shoulders brake/reverse and a right r2 acceleration button? considering one of the tank destroyers would be aimed through actual positioning of the vehicle. itd be cool to have the turret only move marginally with the right stick for fine adjustments, (20-30degrees max) and use left stick for steering/aiming and positioning with l1 l2 for break and reverse, make r2 accelerate and r1 becomes the new module radial. unless the halfway analog deadzone has been addressed already, cause currently theyre just a pain to drive. i cant imagine trying to use the destroyer with the current scheme. i need to be able to stop on a dime and reverse if my gun cant be aimed well. thats how tank hunting in battlefield is. you play peekaboo. drive out, pop someone with the gun, and while its reloaded you haul it back before he can turn and kill you and its back to cat and mouse. thats how i see the enforcers at least. ive wanted a dedicated tank destroyer for sometime. i initially saw it as the medium assault vehicle fitted with a large cannon av turret. mobile, low health, easy to sneakup on a tank and mess it up and spider away quickly when people realize youre there. dampened and quiet until you start firing. marauders... well thats self explanatory. in eve a marauder is a battleship with a bastion module. make them a bit slower and give them an immobilizing bastion module that increase defense and allows them to effectively be a larger turret for point defense. set it up on a road, the tank lowers, its armor plates move a little to create full coverage and then its a larger unmoveable turret as long as the modules active. otherwise they should just be very slow moving high hp. bastion modules are nonviable in DUST. They would allow AV gunners to trivially kill vehicles. and control schemes need to be fixed in general. but I dunno if that is on the table well id rather have the control scheme fixed first and foremost. i can make poorly made vehicles work as long as i can drive them. in the current state i cant make it around a corner without bumping into something or getting stuck in that wonky deadzone while trying to turn around. as for bastion modules its simply a matter of balancing the numbers. any mechanic present in eve online has a potential home in dust. dust is just the ground version of eve online. there should be eve parity just as much as there should be racial parity. thats why ive long been an advocate of capacitors and modules like armor resistance. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6398	Posted - 2015.01.14 07:22:00 - [1030] - Quote immobility is death, because vehicles have weakspots EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2694	Posted - 2015.01.14 07:31:00 - [1031] - Quote So Breakin and me just cussed each other out for a solid 2 hrs. or so (again), but it was about Logis vehicles. From what I understand, he wants: 1: Both LLV's and LDS's to rep things 2: for repping turrets to replace remote reppers 3: For HAV's not to be able to fit them easily (kinda like a cloak on a assault deal). I disagree with all three points (kinda) 1: There is a concept I dubbed "The Logistics Triangle". Currently, there's three main theme's of a logi, and that is repping things, transport (for infantry it's spawning with uplinks), and supplying infantry's boomsticks. Although there's no third logi vehicle, nor is there resupplying, that third one should get resupplying (I say that it's a LMV, sexy school bus with a MSD anyone?) We do have LDS's and LLV's, and they were balanced for the logistics triangle (or at this point line). LLV's were the better of the two for repping (although the special infantry rep sucked ass, we all know it) and could do some transport, and the although terribly balanced in the ideal situation would be much better at transport, and although would be terrible for repping could be half way decent at airdropping supplies in (maybe a giant nanohive kinda thing?). With this, it would be all out of whack. It would become whichever is the best gets used the most, and that is bad for balance. 2: This was the main one (and had the most time and the most insults). My problem is this: Before, it was simple: a person fitted their LLV in two ways: they would tank a little (not much, the reppers took up a lot) and had one kind of tank repper, or they had both tank reppers and no tank. The LLV pilot would then coordinate with a friendly HAV (not: due to the **** repper, not infantry) on when to rep, when you had to leave due to being hammered (which happened a lot, yes a untanked or only lightly tanked LLV vs. AV or HAV's wasn't that tough, only the full tanked ones were)m things like that. You had to respond quickly, and you had to be really careful, one wrong move and you're both toast, as the HAV tanked more than repped, it wasn't just a normal fit (unless you were repping a random). Making them turrets would change all of that. First off, it would require a full man to do just ONE tank (yes, you would need another full LLV to do this with, and we only have 16 man teams, as well as that price starts adding up to be real damn expensive for one HAV), a load of coordination is now added, seeing as you have to talk to now 3 new people for different tasks. It just becomes a mess of inefficiency, which I hate, as that is the opposite of what he wants to bring back, which is the chromosome vibe. One of his complaints was that he wants remote reppers to rep infantry as well, and to that, infantry repping as a vehicle was only available on the LLV, and I'd like it to stay that way (although that old rep as said needs to go, a bubble rep seems to be a good way to go about it from my talks with Pokey, but a turret for that would be fine with me), and combining them just to say that they are combined is beyond ***** silly. 3: I'm iffy on this one. It really comes down to if it can be balanced. Imo, it was, as it took a shitload of skill (especially in large numbers) to pull off. One wrong move, the engagement is over, your entire squad is dead (and yes, seen it happen a couple times, it's usually someone decides to lock someone else, or accidentally because of moving and aiming wrong). That is all. EDIT: reread 3, realized that it isn't worded right. To clarify, I want heavy remote repps to stay, but if they can't due to balance, remove them (but lights regardless needs to stay). click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 440	Posted - 2015.01.14 10:38:00 - [1032] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m7G9wnM6gcnNM6oP6mw5oYgHQZF6XYelYh0PTgk72iM/pubhtml 1. Chrome with altered numbers, not finished either Your marauder resistances are set both too high and should apply only to armor or shields, not both. the HP bonus to the Sagaris compounded would almost double it's EHP from chrome levels The Gallente would be able to run a rep nonstop that can absorb incoming fire from anything less than 2 AV gunners while enjoying 50% higher EHP. This would be hit with the nerf hammer a week after launch. 1. Its a role bonus like the logi gets, its either armor or shield but not both and even if it was its not much on 1000armor and by then once you are down to that on a shield vehicle you are as good as dead 2. How? The sagaris is at chrome levels, the shield skill offers 5% per level to shield HP as it did before, i just added resistance if its supposed to be a point defence machine 3. Again how? its 5% to armor repair amount so your repper will repair 25% more at level 5 than it does at a base?
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 440	Posted - 2015.01.14 10:48:00 - [1033] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: What if you had 3 flavors? Resistance Amps - 15% Passive, Always On, Zero Downtime Active Hardener - 25% Active, Moderate Duration, Long Downtime Flux Active Harder - 40%, Active, Short Duration, Long Downtime 1. Had them in Uprising for shield vehicles - 10sec on /30sec off - Didnt work out so well for shield vehicles since no one ever used them hardeners hence why armor vehicles were better 2. If its on for 10sec and off for 1min then there is no point to using them since if ground vehicle are going to be slower then in 10sec or less they better get behind some decent cover or far away
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6399	Posted - 2015.01.14 11:02:00 - [1034] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m7G9wnM6gcnNM6oP6mw5oYgHQZF6XYelYh0PTgk72iM/pubhtml 1. Chrome with altered numbers, not finished either Your marauder resistances are set both too high and should apply only to armor or shields, not both. the HP bonus to the Sagaris compounded would almost double it's EHP from chrome levels The Gallente would be able to run a rep nonstop that can absorb incoming fire from anything less than 2 AV gunners while enjoying 50% higher EHP. This would be hit with the nerf hammer a week after launch. 1. Its a role bonus like the logi gets, its either armor or shield but not both and even if it was its not much on 1000armor and by then once you are down to that on a shield vehicle you are as good as dead 2. How? The sagaris is at chrome levels, the shield skill offers 5% per level to shield HP as it did before, i just added resistance if its supposed to be a point defence machine 3. Again how? its 5% to armor repair amount so your repper will repair 25% more at level 5 than it does at a base? ahhh you fixed it Ok. first up, the sagaris was bloody powerful. adding 25% resistance plus 25% HP would only bring it's EHP upward towards the Surya, and the surya EHP was excessive in a bad way. second, the buff to the surya takes it's average EHP (someone was kind enough to link the fit) from over 16k to over 20k. Given the SUrya was almost untouchable that's an unacceptable result. There is no other instance in this game where an upgrade from a weapon, suit or module provides double or triple the base EHP benefit of the unit before. Your scaling is off. The only way for the bonus you suggest to work is to strip SIGNIFICANT fitting power from marauders. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 440	Posted - 2015.01.14 11:34:00 - [1035] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m7G9wnM6gcnNM6oP6mw5oYgHQZF6XYelYh0PTgk72iM/pubhtml 1. Chrome with altered numbers, not finished either Your marauder resistances are set both too high and should apply only to armor or shields, not both. the HP bonus to the Sagaris compounded would almost double it's EHP from chrome levels The Gallente would be able to run a rep nonstop that can absorb incoming fire from anything less than 2 AV gunners while enjoying 50% higher EHP. This would be hit with the nerf hammer a week after launch. 1. Its a role bonus like the logi gets, its either armor or shield but not both and even if it was its not much on 1000armor and by then once you are down to that on a shield vehicle you are as good as dead 2. How? The sagaris is at chrome levels, the shield skill offers 5% per level to shield HP as it did before, i just added resistance if its supposed to be a point defence machine 3. Again how? its 5% to armor repair amount so your repper will repair 25% more at level 5 than it does at a base? ahhh you fixed it Ok. first up, the sagaris was bloody powerful. adding 25% resistance plus 25% HP would only bring it's EHP upward towards the Surya, and the surya EHP was excessive in a bad way. second, the buff to the surya takes it's average EHP (someone was kind enough to link the fit) from over 16k to over 20k. Given the SUrya was almost untouchable that's an unacceptable result. There is no other instance in this game where an upgrade from a weapon, suit or module provides double or triple the base EHP benefit of the unit before. Your scaling is off. The only way for the bonus you suggest to work is to strip SIGNIFICANT fitting power from marauders. 1. They are marauders they are supposed to be bloody powerful 2. Its EHP may reach uptowards the Surya but the Surya gets the same skills roughly, But if Minmatar vehicles enter then i would most likely swap the shield HP to the minmatar marauder and give Caldari 5% per level on shield regen perhaps 3. The Surya was not untouchable and its a vehicle not a dropsuit which can be upgraded in many diff ways to be better and its alot more powerful to boot 4. My scaling is fine so far but not done
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6404	Posted - 2015.01.14 12:59:00 - [1036] - Quote your scaling is only fine if you want it to require a squad to kill it. The Surya's EHP was the sticking point in chrome that pissed people off. The sagaris was manageable, but the Surya's tank was both inordinate and excessive. Buffing the sagaris will not win any points, and bluntly given Rattati's concerns about HAV destructibility, I don't see it being seriously entertained. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 155	Posted - 2015.01.14 13:02:00 - [1037] - Quote I'd love to add Swarm Pods as a Small Turret...and Guided Missiles as a Large Turret (Guided missiles being controlled by where you are pointed, while swarm pods are lock-on) but swarm pods seem like they'd be a bit awesome Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6406	Posted - 2015.01.14 13:20:00 - [1038] - Quote whoever said enforcers were glass cannons was smoking the biggest crack pipe when they were playing them Same slot layout as marauders... check Miniscule PG/CPU reduction... check. Higher base hull HP... Check. Same bonus as marauders -5% overall efficacy... check Glass cannons my ass. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 440	Posted - 2015.01.14 13:22:00 - [1039] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: your scaling is only fine if you want it to require a squad to kill it. The Surya's EHP was the sticking point in chrome that pissed people off. The sagaris was manageable, but the Surya's tank was both inordinate and excessive. Buffing the sagaris will not win any points, and bluntly given Rattati's concerns about HAV destructibility, I don't see it being seriously entertained. 1. Rattati would like a 35000+ Laser strike to get rid of a marauder 2. You buff what is weak to make it strong and viable compared to something that is already strong and the current only option 3. All vehicles annoyed in Chrome because no infantry wanted to skill into AV 4. Surya tank was around 6k with 3/2 resistance mods at 25% and a heavy repper - It was a tank, it was good, it required alot of SP to skill into and perfect and alot of ISK to bring one out 5. Im making vehicles for PC by the way, where teamwork is required and competant teams fight each other and where vehicles can make an impact like they used to - Im not balancing for pubs
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 440	Posted - 2015.01.14 13:25:00 - [1040] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: I'd love to add Swarm Pods as a Small Turret...and Guided Missiles as a Large Turret (Guided missiles being controlled by where you are pointed, while swarm pods are lock-on) but swarm pods seem like they'd be a bit awesome 1. The current SL is not laser guided or even requires 1/10th of the aim that you want for vehicle turrets 2. Current vehicle turrets like the large missile require aim, the SL does not 3. The current missile turrets are already controlled by where i aim, they just do not track the target and go round 3 corners and i dont want it either 4. A vehicle version of the SL, do i get to lock onto infantry through cover and aim upwards and not lose lock and have the missiles chase infantry around 3 corners?

Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6406	Posted - 2015.01.14 13:26:00 - [1041] - Quote 1. Rattati would like a 35000+ Laser strike to get rid of a marauder Right, you want it to be kittens and rainbows. 2. You buff what is weak to make it strong and viable compared to something that is already strong and the current only option Sagaris was ANYTHING but weak 3. All vehicles annoyed in Chrome because no infantry wanted to skill into AV Surya EHP was excessive. 4. Surya tank was around 6k with 3/2 resistance mods at 25% and a heavy repper - It was a tank, it was good, it required alot of SP to skill into and perfect and alot of ISK to bring one out Try again cupcake, you know, and I know that statement right there is horsesh*t. Plates in chrome added over 3500 HP as a baseline, and the Surya could fit more than one plus hardeners/reps. 5. Im making vehicles for PC by the way, where teamwork is required and competant teams fight each other and where vehicles can make an impact like they used to - Im not balancing for pubs[/quote] Yes, because the corp battle players weren't ever complaining that marauders were dominating the matches. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2381	Posted - 2015.01.14 13:34:00 - [1042] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: marauders... well thats self explanatory. in eve a marauder is a battleship with a bastion module. make them a bit slower and give them an immobilizing bastion module that increase defense and allows them to effectively be a larger turret for point defense. set it up on a road, the tank lowers, its armor plates move a little to create full coverage and then its a larger unmoveable turret as long as the modules active. otherwise they should just be very slow moving high hp. I pictured this happening and a gunloggi turning into one of the Caldari large turrets from Closed Beta. Also, I disagree that Bastion Modules are nonviable in Dust, though I do not think they should be looked at until later (get racial parity first, then Enforcers/Marauders included/balanced and then worry about breaking them again with specific modules). Amarr/Minmatar vehicles are OP (especially Minmatar speed tanks) ^The reason why CCP is afraid to release them
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 440	Posted - 2015.01.14 13:45:00 - [1043] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: 1. Rattati would like a 35000+ Laser strike to get rid of a marauder Right, you want it to be kittens and rainbows. 2. You buff what is weak to make it strong and viable compared to something that is already strong and the current only option Sagaris was ANYTHING but weak 3. All vehicles annoyed in Chrome because no infantry wanted to skill into AV Surya EHP was excessive. 4. Surya tank was around 6k with 3/2 resistance mods at 25% and a heavy repper - It was a tank, it was good, it required alot of SP to skill into and perfect and alot of ISK to bring one out Try again cupcake, you know, and I know that statement right there is horsesh*t. Plates in chrome added over 3500 HP as a baseline, and the Surya could fit more than one plus hardeners/reps. 5. Im making vehicles for PC by the way, where teamwork is required and competant teams fight each other and where vehicles can make an impact like they used to - Im not balancing for pubs Yes, because the corp battle players weren't ever complaining that marauders were dominating the matches. [/quote] 1. He said it not me, take it up with Rattati 2. Look at now, Madrugar is weaker than the Gunlogi yet you want to nerf the Gunlogi down to the Madrugars level so we end up with 2 useless vehicles instead of 2 useful vehicles 3. No - Infantry didnt want to skill into proper AV at all, Now all infantry has at least some form of AV that wouldnt be a problem 4. Wrong - You have the Chrome numbers - 180Poly was 3128 - It never was 3500 unless you add in the 25% bonus to vehicle armor but that was added on base stats 4a. Its why i said 3/2, you know 3 or 2 depending on pilot with at least 1 heavy rep 5. Nope they were not, even in Uprising no one complained that vehicles were useful and doing there job
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6406	Posted - 2015.01.14 13:53:00 - [1044] - Quote meh screw it, I'm not talking to you any more lazer. I'll do my thing, you do yours. Your ability to justify anything so long as vehicles are untouchable by infantry is nothing short of amazing. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 440	Posted - 2015.01.14 13:59:00 - [1045] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: meh screw it, I'm not talking to you any more lazer. I'll do my thing, you do yours. Your ability to justify anything so long as vehicles are untouchable by infantry is nothing short of amazing. 1. Dont get mad because i countered all your points while you just decided to act like a child 2. If you dont want to start a discussion do not reply 3. 2 can play that game - Your ability to justify anything so long as AV are untouchable by pilots is nothing short of amazing
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6410	Posted - 2015.01.14 14:55:00 - [1046] - Quote Alright, I am actually winding down a bit, and running out of things I can justify changing. the raw numbers in chrome are fun in some aspects, and enraging in others. I am well aware that there was no "golden age" for any aspect of the game, but this one has the distinction of being entertaining to me. My numbers can be found here. the door will remain open if anyone wants to provide feedback. all of my proposed changes are in the various theorycrafting tabs. the TL;DR of these changes are as follows. All changes are from base chrome stats Hulls: Viper and Gorgon: +15% buff to base PG/CPU Sica and Soma should retain current speeds in uprising 1.10 build Gunnlogi and madrugar: since I don't have data on moement, speed reduced from current Surya: Skill changed to +5% repaired per level with armor repair modules from +4% damage per level Sagaris: skill changed to +5% per level of amount gained via shield boosters from +4% damage per level Myron and Grimsnes: 30% buff to base PG and CPU Eryx: comes with CRU, Skill Bonus: 15%/level fitting reduction and 25%/level range on Shield Transporter, 5% reduction to mCRU spawn time/level Prometheus:comes with CRU, Skill Bonus: 15%/level fitting reduction and 25%/level range on Remote Armor Repair, 5% reduction to mCRU spawn time/level Charybdis Skill: 15%/level fitting reduction on Remote Armor Repair Limbus Skill: 15%/level fitting reduction on Shield Transporter Falchion: reduced base HP, reduced fitting, reduced slot count, removed secondary turret slots. Role bonus: 50% reduction to fitting large turrets. Skill Bonus: 4%/level to large missiles, 5%/level to reload speed Vayu: reduced base HP, reduced fitting, reduced slot count, removed secondary turret slots. Role bonus: 50% reduction to fitting large turrets. Skill Bonus: 4%/level to large blasters, 5%/level to reload speed Modules: Added remote armor rep for use as a small turret Added remote shield rep for use as a turret Reduced base protection of 180mm plates by 20% AV: Restored Forge guns to Chromosome, minus 12 base damage Reduced Plasma Cannon reload and reduced charge time to allow it to act in a real anti vehicle capacity Added theoretical stats to Scrambler lance Added Theoretical stats to Heavy Autocannon Added theoretical stats to plasma mortar Heavy and Burst Machineguns: Reduce base damage 10%, Restore older heat values, toggle off aim assist. Heavy Damage mods restored to 5/7/10 Swarms retained as CURRENT (Uprising 1.0) type. AV grenades restored to chromosome values Theoretical stats including the lost weaponry bonus as a baseline included. As the weaponry bonus was crucial at the time. Stats with the weaponry bonus are added at the bottom, baseline stats retained at the top. All changes are annotated in the theorycraft tabs, not in the base numbers. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Shadow of War88 0uter.Heaven 483	Posted - 2015.01.14 15:33:00 - [1047] - Quote LOL reload speed bonus. & justice for all
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2740	Posted - 2015.01.14 16:31:00 - [1048] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Viper and Gorgon: +15% buff to base PG/CPU lolwut. Buff that by a lot, but nothing else? lol Sica and Soma should retain current speeds in uprising 1.10 build Gunnlogi and madrugar: since I don't have data on moement, speed reduced from current So MLT hulls keep the same speed, but STD hulls move slower? That would be like Ferrari introducing a mid-level sedan. Surya: Skill changed to +5% repaired per level with armor repair modules Actually something smart. Sagaris: skill changed to +5% per level of amount gained via shield boosters Better off with higher recharge. So just one bonus, eh? I see Myron and Grimsnes: 30% buff to base PG and CPU These are quite fine right now actually. I still doubt you've ever set foot in the pilot's seat of any vehicle. Eryx: comes with CRU, Skill Bonus: 15%/level fitting reduction and 25%/level range on Shield Transporter, 5% reduction to mCRU spawn time/level Prometheus:comes with CRU, Skill Bonus: 15%/level fitting reduction and 25%/level range on Remote Armor Repair, 5% reduction to mCRU spawn time/level If spawn time on a logi ship isn't 5 seconds at level 5 at the very most, then it's not worth it in PC and FW, which is what the game is supposed to be balanced around. Charybdis Skill: 15%/level fitting reduction on Remote Armor Repair Limbus Skill: 15%/level fitting reduction on Shield Transporter If we have 5% PG/CPU per level, this won't be a problem. They should come pre-fit with infantry modules, with a third slot for remote vehicle modules. Falchion: reduced base HP, reduced fitting, reduced slot count, removed secondary turret slots. Role bonus: 50% reduction to fitting large turrets. Skill Bonus: 4%/level to large missiles, 5%/level to reload speed Vayu: reduced base HP, reduced fitting, reduced slot count, removed secondary turret slots. Role bonus: 50% reduction to fitting large turrets. Skill Bonus: 4%/level to large blasters, 5%/level to reload speed That's worse than the Uprising Enforcers. You're giving me a stronger feeling every time you post that you've never been in a vehicle, ever. Reduced fitting? It was that way in Uprising, they had MLT stats. 50% reduction to fitting turrets? Terrible ideas Added remote armor rep for use as a small turret Added remote shield rep for use as a turret Why bother using them as logistics then? Anybody that tried using them found them to be slow, clunky and incredibly frustrating to use. Everybody else is a fan of area of effect, why bring back something that didn't work? Reduced base protection of 180mm plates by 20% Why bother having them if that's the case? AV: Reduced Plasma Cannon reload and reduced charge time to allow it to act in a real anti vehicle capacity They already get a reload skill, and another one on top of that when used with a commando suit. Heavy Damage mods restored to 5/7/10 lolwut Swarms retained as CURRENT (Uprising 1.0) type. Still broken AV grenades restored to chromosome values Might as well send down asteroids. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 445	Posted - 2015.01.14 16:33:00 - [1049] - Quote 1. Logi DS need a kick out button 2. Specalized hulls work on a role bonus and then a racial bonus, this can be upto 3 skills max 2a. Either 2 bonus skills for its role and 1 racial or vice versa - This is seen in infantry suits such as the Minmatar Logi 2b. Not sure if Basic Hulls should get anything skill bonus wise to compete and not be made useless compared to Marauder/Enforcer 3. Any turrets which are anti infantry are for killing just infantry and will be useless against vehicles 4. No AV numbers since this is about vehicles, just add in current AV numbers now and tweek from then on 5. Shield passive recharge is constant 6. Remote reps are area of effect to remove the dodgy targeting system 6a. Remote reps can rep as many vehicles as is in the AOE, the rep rate its self will be divided by as many vehicles which are in the AOE area 6b. Light reps can work on infantry, 50% reduced rate amount 6c. No repair turrets - It does not take 2 to use an infantry repair tool 6d. Yet to add AOE distance 7. Most modules have been tiered to a certain level 7a. Some modules have lower CPU/PG requirements and lower bonus as a result but not all modules have a module like this - I may add to all for variety purposes 7b. Some values taken from EVE 7c. Some new modules added 7d. Shield/Armor mods same resistance % 8. Hulls have had certain stats changed 8a. ADS gains 2 slots, will lose all passenger slots, can be a 3man vehicle with 3 turrets, buffed Shield/Armor values 8b. Enforcer 1 main turret, no small turrets but undecided atm, 4/3 layout 8c. Marauder 5/3 8d. Basic HAV 4/2 9. PC/FW before pubs 10. Still not finished - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m7G9wnM6gcnNM6oP6mw5oYgHQZF6XYelYh0PTgk72iM/pubhtml
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2740	Posted - 2015.01.14 16:42:00 - [1050] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: 1. Rattati would like a 35000+ Laser strike to get rid of a marauder Right, you want it to be kittens and rainbows. What part of his own words* don't you understand?* 2. You buff what is weak to make it strong and viable compared to something that is already strong and the current only option Sagaris was ANYTHING but weak What's wrong with vehicles getting 5% per level to CPU, PG, shield and armor per level? Along with making base hulls weaker than current stats, but stronger than they currently are when those skills are at level 5? 3. All vehicles annoyed in Chrome because no infantry wanted to skill into AV Surya EHP was excessive. No, the correct answer is............... nobody had AV. 4. Surya tank was around 6k with 3/2 resistance mods at 25% and a heavy repper - It was a tank, it was good, it required alot of SP to skill into and perfect and alot of ISK to bring one out Try again cupcake, you know, and I know that statement right there is horsesht. Plates in chrome added over 3500 HP as a baseline, and the Surya could fit more than one plus hardeners/reps. 180mm polycrystalline plate didn't add that much.* 5. Im making vehicles for PC by the way, where teamwork is required and competant teams fight each other and where vehicles can make an impact like they used to - Im not balancing for pubs Yes, because the corp battle players weren't ever complaining that marauders were dominating the matches. It's called teamwork, and I would imagine each team could field more than one vehicle pilot at all times. Because after all, why should the game be balanced around pubs? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim



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