...but not scouts.

The caldari sentinel is on par with the amarr and gallente sentinels. Also, not sure why you want to nerf the amarr assault.

1) AM Sentinel
2) GA Sentinel
3) AM Assault
4) Breach Assault Rifle
5) Heavy Machine Gun

While we're at it ... here are some specific suggestions:

1,2,3) Add meaningful mobility penalties to armor plates. Thinking penalties to movement, backpedal, strafe, etc. Want to be a fantastic fortress? Move like a damn fortress.

4) Make it great down range or great in CQC. Being great at both is a 'bit too much (see old Rail Rifle). If to be great down range, then hipfire should be erratic. If to be great in CQC, then damage at range should be reduced.

5) Add 1/4 second spool-up time. cap rotation speed, or ask the heavies for how to fix (then ignore the ones who say "I deserves a chance to respond"). When the fantastic fortress of insta-death is flanked, there should be dire consequences. Just like 800HP Scouts shouldn't be a thing, insta-spin-and-win Heavies shouldn't be a thing.

@ True Adamance
Your counterpoints would be more convincing if racial tank were in balance. At the moment shield and armor are far from one another's equal. Armor modules afford their users substantially greater TTK benefit per slot than shield modules. And anti-shield weaponry is vastly more effective at stripping shields than anti-armor weaponry is at stripping armor. Armor's supposed drawback -- mobility -- pays too little penalty practice. Your 1200HP Assault unit spins and parries as fast the next, and there is no unit who cannot hitch a ride. Why run?

@ Zindorak
There is no unit in play more broken than the HMG Sentinel, and there is no flavor of Sentinel more reliably spammed in PC than the Amarr. As for Amarr Assault, our friends at Nyain San have never favored balanced suits or guns. In fact, if there's an overt balance problem to be found, they are typically among the first to find it, and spam it, which they do relentlessly until it said problem is fixed. Were you aware that they no longer spammed Scouts?

@ DDx77
Quite perceptive, good sir! To further distill the feedback, one might say my beef is limited to (1) Armor Tank paying too great a benefit at too little drawback and (2) a couple broken weapons, namely the HMG and Breach Assault Rifle.

Racial tank is not in balance. I can make very easily Minmatar Assault with comprable EHP and better primary shield regen, not to mention movement speed to an Amarr Assault.

Speed and regenerative power is significantly more desirable from the perspective of someone who can amass 1200 EHP than raw TTK. Look quite honestly I see it as a grass is greener argument. Shield tankers IMO don't appreciate the incredible value of not having slow walk and sprint speeds.

No you cannot. Armor tanking is far superior currently because of the very low movement penalties and much larger amounts of hp. If you disagree, show me two fits. Regardless, I think plates are the problem, not the amarr assault.

Racial tank is not in balance. I can make very easily Minmatar Assault with comprable EHP and better primary shield regen, not to mention movement speed to an Amarr Assault.

Speed and regenerative power is significantly more desirable from the perspective of someone who can amass 1200 EHP than raw TTK. Look quite honestly I see it as a grass is greener argument. Shield tankers IMO don't appreciate the incredible value of not having slow walk and sprint speeds.

While we're at it ... here are some specific suggestions:

GA Sentinel, AM Sentinel, AM Assault
Add meaningful mobility penalties to armor plates. Thinking penalties to movement, backpedal, strafe, etc. Something. Want to be a fantastic fortress? Move like a damn fortress.

Breach Assault Rifle
Make it great down range or great in CQC. Being great at both is a 'bit too much (see old Rail Rifle). If to be great down range, then hipfire should be erratic. If to be great in CQC, then damage at range should be reduced.

Heavy Machine Gun
Add 1/4 second spool-up time. cap rotation speed, or ask the heavies for a how to fix (then ignore the ones who say "I deserves a chance to respond"). When the fantastic fortress of insta-death is flanked, there should be dire consequences. Just like 800HP Scouts shouldn't be a thing, insta-spin-and-win Heavies shouldn't be a thing.

There isn't a shield-centric unit in the game whose primary tank can't be depleted in an instant.

Shotgun, Scrambler Rifle, Flux Grenade. These flat-out nuke shield reserves. Gone! Let's gather up those nukes and put them on one side of the balance scale. Any anti-armor equivalents for the other side? [Dramatic Pause]. Regen doesn't matter when your dead, and shield-tankers die way faster than armor-tankers. Plates always pay +TTK. Shields can't make that claim.

Green or not, that grass ain't cut straight, TA.

Shotgun, Scrambler Rifle, Flux Grenade. These flat-out nuke shield reserves. Gone! Let's gather up those nukes and put them on one side of the balance scale. Any anti-armor equivalents for the other side? [Dramatic Pause].

Allow me to break your silence.

Locus Grenades, Mass Drivers, Missiles, might I add that there are more damage types in this game that are against armor than shields. Lets take a look shall we?

Hybrid Blaster (Thermal) - Anti shield
Hybrid Rail (Kinetic) - Anti Armor
Projectile (another Kinetic type ? ) - Anti Armor
Lasers (Electromagnetic) - Anti Shield
Explosives (Explosive) - Anti armor.


Yep, by your Logic I should complain about Locus grenades insta popping me, Combat Rifles shredding me and REs killing me instantly even at a good distance away.

1) AM Sentinel
2) GA Sentinel
[...]
5) Heavy Machine Gun

GA Sentinel, AM Sentinel, AM Assault
Add meaningful mobility penalties to armor plates. Thinking penalties to movement, backpedal, strafe, etc. Something. Want to be a fantastic fortress? Move like a damn fortress.

Heavy Machine Gun
Add 1/4 second spool-up time. cap rotation speed, or ask the heavies for a how to fix (then ignore the ones who say "I deserves a chance to respond"). When the fantastic fortress of insta-death is flanked, there should be dire consequences. Just like 800HP Scouts shouldn't be a thing, insta-spin-and-win Heavies shouldn't be a thing.

3) AM Assault

4) Breach Assault Rifle

My problem(as an armor tanked GalScout FOTM Scrub, a Minmatar Sentinel tanked to 1400 HP, and a Minmatar Commando with MD/CR) with the Scr is the fact that even in it's "recently nerfed" state, it can kill me before I even have a chance to shoot back.

In my Scout, even though "it sucks to chew through armor" I still get killed before I can pop a 2nd shotgun round. In my Min Sentinel(600/800 HPs, Boundless HMG, and a damage mod, also Fluxed/Locus'd the enemy before they engaged/noticed me) I still died before i could chew them to half armor.
In my MinCommando, I'm literally at the mercy of any/all Amarr players. If i see one at range(past 60-70m) I can either ignore it and get charge sniped by said amarr player, or i can spam ACR, follow up with MD shots and he will run behind a box/hill, pop back up and charge shot followed by... follow up shots, resulting in the end screen reading:

Assault A/1
Viziam/CRW-04

Shield 0 Armor 700+
Damage dealt near 2000

As a minmatar, my weapons don't just nullify a race's entire existence off the map anywhere as effectively as the ScR does to minmatar. My prof 2 SIx Kin ACR with Commando 5 and twin damage mods STILL doesn't kill a Amarr user faster than he kills me, and it certainly doesn't get wielded by a sizable amount of Caldari Scouts looking for a way to be even more instant **** in a can.
Sure, my ACR is USED a lot, and it might be owned by A FEW protostompers, but have you come across a GalScout who quite simply couldn't be killed, even when you got the drop on him with an HMG sentinel?

Proposal: Reduce spamfire DPS by reducing damage 15-20%, increase charge shot damage by 15-20% to encourage this "longer ranged" gameplay i know Amarr for, not this "It's a shotgun, a sniper, an HMG, AND a charge shooter, oh but we never use that, spam all the way!"

You wish to be respected as Amarrians, no? Then give up the SPAM for more tacticality.

Breach AR is -SUPPOSED- to be great at both by it's design, though. As an AR it's meant for great CQC performance and by emulating the Rail Rifle it's meant for great long-performance. Don't hate because it's doing it's job.

Right, and those weapons are -designed- to kill shields... It's like complaining about a Mass Driver or Combat Rifle as an Armor Tanker.

1) AM Sentinel
2) GA Sentinel
3) AM Assault
4) Breach Assault Rifle
5) Heavy Machine Gun

Broken items. Listed in no particular order.
Please and thank you. That is all.

I'm not sure I would call them "broken", but rather "in need of some tweaking".

Heavies in general are in what I would contend is a "not good" state- in this case because they are in fact overperforming. I don't think anybody disputes this. The main issue is solutions, in that some people are more interested in an uncalled for total nerf of the class and weapons system as a whole. Moreover, I'd like to see some detailed reasons as to why the other two sentinel suits are not broken.

Traditional plates already have a "meaningful mobility penalty". The real issue is that the mobility of a heavy suit is never actually a problem since they have been shoehorned into a CQC role. -snip- There are at least half a dozen medframes that can strafe faster than such a build can sprint. Movement penalties are already harsh enough as is.

Also, MDs, Locus (especially Core Locus), Flaylocks, CRs, and ACRs all positively shred armor to pieces. I don't include HMGs in this list purely because the HMG is limited to a particular platform- none of the above are so limited. And no, the Commando lack of a grenade slot doesn't count as limiting locus grenades.

It is traditionally considered quite daft for it to have any kind of spool time- particularly as that would be completely contrary to the description. Veteran DUSTers may consider item descriptions to be only moderately reliable, but the newbro who thinks heavies are God's gift to FPS gaming will not have such... cynicism, to be blunt. Moreover, it's already been proven that a reduced rotation speed for a unit that is supposedly intended for CQC fights consigns said unit to irrelevance at best, or a SP trap and the equivalent of a walking WP pinata at worst. While I would agree that the ability of a heavy suit to "instaspin" should be limited... I think that this should be addressed by simply evicting the Sentinel suit from CQC combat, with the exception of Burst HMG door-kickers. I'm sure you've seen Breakin Stuff's proposal about that particular matter.

Hmm.. the implied TTK sounds a lot more like my Min scout with 176 than a Commando with, how much health? This situational evidence also shows that the ScR user is in an advantageous position anyway, and so suggesting that you want them to be nerfed for fighting from a position that gives you a disadvantage.

I will say again, I rarely ever see anything but Gal and Cal suits and weapons. Even Minmatar outnumbers the number of Amarr I see. Of course, I don't see everything, but neither do you.

I was behind a rock, firing at a guy in the open, he found a teeny divot in the terrain and 3 shot me, how is that "he had better positioning"?

Also when if ever does an Amarr Assault or Calscout SCR user ever die? Most of the time it's just user error, where they didn't strafe right or they missed 2 too many shots. In my MinAssault i lose to Galscouts even when he's sitting perfectly still firing shotgun rounds at me.
Also I'm pretty sure the fact that "the most OP weapon/class in the game"(sentinel/HMG) getting beat by a SCR is evidence enough that it itself is ridiculously OP and needs toning down.

Referring to my personal experience again, I almost never see an ScR anywhere but the market.

Amarr assault is not OP, it's Scrambler Rifles that are. Lasers are also kind of OP but can be countered by moving in close, and take a bit more concentration to use than Scramblers (With a Scrambler you just have to try to avoid overheating, with a Laser you have to get as close to overheating as possible before you stop firing).
The amount of damage a Scrambler can do with a charged shot is insane, even half charge it gains way too much damage.


Scrambler Rifle is one of the most popular weapons right now, you play with your eyes closed?

Scrambler Rifle is one of the most popular weapons right now, you play with your eyes closed?

Agreed on all counts. In my admittedly simple and biased mind, MN/CA Sentinels aren't broken because (1) they aren't spammed in PC and (2) they go down quickly when hit from behind by their supposed CQC counters (knives, shotguns, flux+acr, etc) and (3) they can be effectively engaged at range as their HP reserves are typically less ridiculous than those of GA/AM.

Sprint speed isn't the problem, nor is it a limiting factor to a defender. The problem is how ably these fortresses respond when flanked. If I intend to move a red blob, in most cases, I must use a blue blob. The maximum land speed of either blob is of little consequence thanks to modern transportation methods.

Retired my Core Locus Grenades after observing an Amarr Sentinel's remaining HP after being hit with two back-to-back. Perhaps my prototype anti-armor grenades were bugged, but I positively hit him directly with both and what followed was positively not shredding. But while we're on the topic, imagine how fast blobs would dissipate if Sentinel resistance were inverted such that Locus Grenades did bonus damage rather than giggle damage!

Freely defer to the Heavy Community on how to fix insta-spin-and-win.

We need not play the guessing game, gentlmen! The data we need is here:
http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php

Let's have a look at those Light Weapons ...
Mr Breach! Nothing else quite compares.
That nasty ScR? It isn't even on the map!

But OP contends that AM Assault is OP.
If it isn't his ScR, could it be his King HP?

Let's have a look at Low Slot Modules ...
Bricks for the win! A staggering 99.9%!

We need not play the guessing game, gentlemen! The data we need is here:
http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php

Let's have a look at those Light Weapons ...
Mr Breach! Nothing else quite compares.
That nasty ScR? It isn't even on the map!

But OP contends that AM Assault is OP.
If it isn't his ScR, could it be his King HP!?

Let's have a look at Low Slot Modules ...
Bricks for the win! A staggering 99.9%!

- Code Breakers
- Kin Cats
- Card Regs
- Profile Dampeners
- Range Extenders
- PG Upgrades
- CPU Upgrades
- Shield Regulators

^ Add all these up. Multiply by 55. Then you get close to the least popular Brick Module.

---

How to Fix

* Add more drawbacks to Brick Modules (gotta touch this).
* Make EWAR more meaningful to MedFrames.
* Buff KinCats, CardRegs and Shield Regulators.
* Relocate Code Breakers and PG Upgrades to High Slot.

@ Victor Moody Stahl

It would appear that you and I are dangerously close to becoming like-minded. This doesn't bode well for you, good sir, for I am but a simple man :-)

How to Fix

* Add more meaningful drawbacks to Brick Modules (gotta touch this).
* Make EWAR more meaningful to non-Scouts.
* Buff KinCats and CardRegs.
* Merge Shield Regulators with Energizers and/or Rechargers.
* Relocate Code Breakers and PG Upgrades to High Slot.

I rather doubt that we will ever be like-minded, purely because I think that the shotgun should have lower RoF and more range. This would be a huge benefit for, say, assault suit users that want to carry shotguns, and especially commando users (who are very slow, and basically rely on the enemy to get close to them... which can work well, admittedly)

There is, however, the fact that I would recommend we fix scouts first ...

... and then kick heavies out of CQC dominance because that role simply does not work for them- or rather, it nullifies 90% of their disadvantages, while not marginalizing any of their advantages. Which as we are seeing currently, leads to heavies being spammed everywhere, and generally overperforming. I almost wish for the days when the HMG wasn't super awesome and there was a relatively high number of heavies carrying light weapons instead... oh wait, that was actually idiotic (the sentinels w/ LW part). Sorry, just had a moment of brief insanity.

On Module Adjustments

1) AM Sentinel
2) GA Sentinel
3) AM Assault
4) Breach Assault Rifle
5) Heavy Machine Gun

Broken stuff. Items in need of tuning. Listed in no particular order.
Please and thank you. That is all.

Breach AR is fine. It kills at CQC versus shield based tankers (working as intended). You will get owned in a 1Vs1 fight versus a medium long range weapon outside it-¦s 40m optimal.

How to nerf the HMG ...