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Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 649	Posted - 2014.11.24 23:39:00 - [1] - Quote 1) AM Sentinel 2) GA Sentinel 3) AM Assault 4) Breach Assault Rifle 5) Heavy Machine Gun That is all.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 649	Posted - 2014.11.25 00:20:00 - [2] - Quote JUDASisMYhomeboy wrote: ...but not scouts. A topic thoroughly covered elsewhere, no?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 649	Posted - 2014.11.25 01:04:00 - [3] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: The caldari sentinel is on par with the amarr and gallente sentinels. Also, not sure why you want to nerf the amarr assault. 1) Perhaps, but piloting the CalSentinel requires a greater degree effort and awareness. Armor-based Sentinels fare far better when hit from behind ... or hit in general. As it pertains to the heavy, armor > shield. 2) Thought it was pretty much given that the Amarr Assault was overperforming. Is it not what Nyain San's L33T proto stompers are running more often than anything else?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 649	Posted - 2014.11.25 01:26:00 - [4] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: 1) AM Sentinel 2) GA Sentinel 3) AM Assault 4) Breach Assault Rifle 5) Heavy Machine Gun While I'm at it: 1,2,3) Add meaningful mobility penalties to armor plates. Want to be a fortress? Move like damn fortress. 4) Make it great down range or great in CQC. Being great at both is a 'bit too much (see old Rail Rifle). 5) Add 1/4 second spool-up time. There should be consequences to getting flanked as a heavy.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 649	Posted - 2014.11.25 03:13:00 - [5] - Quote @ True Adamance Your counterpoints would be more convincing if racial tank were in balance. At the moment shield and armor are far from one another's equal. Armor modules afford their users substantially greater TTK benefit per slot than shield modules, and anti-shield weaponry is vastly more effective at stripping shields than anti-armor weaponry is at stripping armor. Armor's supposed drawback -- mobility -- pays too little penalty practice. Your 1200HP Assault unit spins and parries as fast the next, and there is no unit who cannot hitch a ride. Why run? @ Zindorak There is no unit in play more broken than the HMG Sentinel, and there is no flavor of Sentinel more reliably spammed in PC than the Amarr. As for Amarr Assault, our friends at Nyain San have never favored balanced suits or guns. In fact, if there's an overt balance problem they are typically among the first to find it and spam it, which they do relentlessly until it is fixed. Were you aware that they no longer spammed Scouts?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 650	Posted - 2014.11.25 03:58:00 - [6] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Racial tank is not in balance. I can make very easily Minmatar Assault with comprable EHP and better primary shield regen, not to mention movement speed to an Amarr Assault. Speed and regenerative power is significantly more desirable from the perspective of someone who can amass 1200 EHP than raw TTK. Look quite honestly I see it as a grass is greener argument. Shield tankers IMO don't appreciate the incredible value of not having slow walk and sprint speeds. There isn't a shield-stacked unit in the game who's tank can't be depleted in an instant. Shotgun, Scrambler Rifle, Flux Grenade. These flat-out nuke shield tankers. And these three have no anti-armor equivalent. Regen and speed don't matter if your dead, and shield tankers die way faster than armor tankers. There's nothing green about that grass. .
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 661	Posted - 2014.11.25 15:35:00 - [7] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Breach AR is -SUPPOSED- to be great at both by it's design, though. As an AR it's meant for great CQC performance and by emulating the Rail Rifle it's meant for great long-performance. Don't hate because it's doing it's job. It truly baffles the mind how we can all denounce ultra-precise Rail Rifle hipfire, see the same all-purpose and overpowered pattern manifest in a different gun, see how that very gun is being spammed allover carnation, then claim with boldface: "Working as intended!" Aeon Amadi wrote: Right, and those weapons are -designed- to kill shields... It's like complaining about a Mass Driver or Combat Rifle as an Armor Tanker. Locus Grenades, Mass Drivers, Combat Rifles and even HMGs are not at all like Shield Nukes. Flux a Cal Sentinel, and his primary tank vanishes in a flash. Shotgun a Cal Sentinel, and his primary tank vanishes in a flash. Charged ScR a Cal Sentinel, and his primary tank vanishes in a flash. Even the strongest anti-armor weapons gradually drain armor reserves. Running plates consistently affords +TTK and an opportunity to respond before reserves hit zero. Because plates pack an arguably insufficient mobility penalty opportunity to respond becomes opportunity to win as plate count increases. This is not the case with shield reserves. Stack as many extenders as you want, and see your reserves vanish before one basic flux, one shotgun blast or one charged ScR round. Without plates, you don't get +TTK. You get gibbed. How to Fix HP Modules offer greater comparative utility than all other type of module, and Armor Modules pay better dividends than Shield Modules. Module balance could be found if we added more meaningful drawbacks to King HP. And Armor vs Shield balance could be found if these drawbacks were designed to affect Armor by greater degree than Shield.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 663	Posted - 2014.11.25 15:41:00 - [8] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I'm not sure I would call them "broken", but rather "in need of some tweaking". Updated OP.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 664	Posted - 2014.11.25 16:51:00 - [9] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Heavies in general are in what I would contend is a "not good" state- in this case because they are in fact overperforming. I don't think anybody disputes this. The main issue is solutions, in that some people are more interested in an uncalled for total nerf of the class and weapons system as a whole. Moreover, I'd like to see some detailed reasons as to why the other two sentinel suits are not broken. Agreed on all counts. In my admittedly biased mind, MN/CA Sentinels aren't broken because (1) they aren't spammed in PC and (2) they go down quickly when hit from behind by their supposed CQC counters (knives, shotguns, flux+acr, etc). Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Traditional plates already have a "meaningful mobility penalty". The real issue is that the mobility of a heavy suit is never actually a problem since they have been shoehorned into a CQC role. -snip- There are at least half a dozen medframes that can strafe faster than such a build can sprint. Movement penalties are already harsh enough as is. Sprint speed isn't the problem, nor is it a limiting factor to a defender. The problem is how ably these fortresses respond when flanked. If I intend to move a red blob, in most cases, I must use a blue blob. The maximum land speed of either blob is of little consequence thanks to modern transportation methods. Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Also, MDs, Locus (especially Core Locus), Flaylocks, CRs, and ACRs all positively shred armor to pieces. I don't include HMGs in this list purely because the HMG is limited to a particular platform- none of the above are so limited. And no, the Commando lack of a grenade slot doesn't count as limiting locus grenades. I retired my Core Locus Grenades after observing an Amarr Sentinel's remaining HP after being hit with two back-to-back. Perhaps my prototype anti-armor grenades were bugged, but I positively hit him directly with both and what followed was positively not shredding. Victor Moody Stahl wrote: It is traditionally considered quite daft for it to have any kind of spool time- particularly as that would be completely contrary to the description. Veteran DUSTers may consider item descriptions to be only moderately reliable, but the newbro who thinks heavies are God's gift to FPS gaming will not have such... cynicism, to be blunt. Moreover, it's already been proven that a reduced rotation speed for a unit that is supposedly intended for CQC fights consigns said unit to irrelevance at best, or a SP trap and the equivalent of a walking WP pinata at worst. While I would agree that the ability of a heavy suit to "instaspin" should be limited... I think that this should be addressed by simply evicting the Sentinel suit from CQC combat, with the exception of Burst HMG door-kickers. I'm sure you've seen Breakin Stuff's proposal about that particular matter. Freely defer to the Heavy Community on how to fix insta-spin-and-win.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 675	Posted - 2014.11.25 23:22:00 - [10] - Quote VikingKong iBUN wrote: Finn Colman wrote: Referring to my personal experience again, I almost never see an ScR anywhere but the market. Scrambler Rifle is one of the most popular weapons right now, you play with your eyes closed? Needn't play the guessing game! The data you need is here: http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php Let's have a look at Light Weapons ... Oh my, Mr Breach! Nothing else quite compares. The ScR? It isn't even on the map! But OP contends that AM Assault is OP? If it isn't the ScR, could it be King HP? Let's have a look at Low Slot Modules ... King HP, for the win! 99.9%.

Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 676	Posted - 2014.11.26 01:22:00 - [11] - Quote @ Victor Moody Stahl It would appear that uou and I are dangerously close to becoming like-minded. This doesn't bode well for, good sir, for I am but a simple man :-) - Code Breakers - Kin Cats - Card Regs - Profile Dampeners - Range Extenders - PG Upgrades - CPU Upgrades - Shield Regulators ^ Add all these up. Multiply by 55. Then you get close to the least popular Brick Module. How to Fix * Add more drawbacks to Brick Modules (gotta touch this). * Make EWAR more meaningful to MedFrames. * Buff KinCats, CardRegs and Shield Regulators. * Relocate Code Breakers and PG Upgrades to High Slot.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 687	Posted - 2014.11.26 13:54:00 - [12] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: I rather doubt that we will ever be like-minded, purely because I think that the shotgun should have lower RoF and more range. This would be a huge benefit for, say, assault suit users that want to carry shotguns, and especially commando users (who are very slow, and basically rely on the enemy to get close to them... which can work well, admittedly) We can agree to disagree on this one. In my estimation, if we lower RoF and increase range, we'd have to substantially increase damage per pellet on account of (1) HP Creep, (2) insta-spin and (3) spread variability at range. Consider the Breach Shotgun. This is a truly terrible weapon, and it is a weapon designed to perform as you've described. Even if we doubled its magazine size, it would remain a truly terrible weapon. It simply fails to deal damage quickly enough to overcome present HP levels. But all this and more we can discuss at length elsewhere; the focus of this thread is King HP, the Breach AR and the HMG. Victor Moody Stahl wrote: There is, however, the fact that I would recommend we fix scouts first ... Absolutely with you on Scouts. There can be no question that previous tuning iterations have helped ( http://dust.thang.dk/market_historycategory.php ) but I agree with you that they remain too popular. Rattati has suggested that Scout EWAR is soon to be rewired to point to module efficacy rather than base frame. This will change everything; overnight Scout popularity will plummet. In lesser news, it'll be nice to see fire-from-cloak fixed as well. Victor Moody Stahl wrote: ... and then kick heavies out of CQC dominance because that role simply does not work for them- or rather, it nullifies 90% of their disadvantages, while not marginalizing any of their advantages. Which as we are seeing currently, leads to heavies being spammed everywhere, and generally overperforming. I almost wish for the days when the HMG wasn't super awesome and there was a relatively high number of heavies carrying light weapons instead... oh wait, that was actually idiotic (the sentinels w/ LW part). Sorry, just had a moment of brief insanity. I fear this a pipedream, the concept of moving these behemoths from close quarters to down range. But if the Heavy Community can figure it out, more power to them. Victor Moody Stahl wrote: On Module Adjustments Pretty much agree with everything you said. \o/
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 693	Posted - 2014.11.26 17:49:00 - [13] - Quote Myron Kundera wrote: Breach AR is fine. It kills at CQC versus shield based tankers (working as intended). You will get owned in a 1Vs1 fight versus a medium long range weapon outside it-¦s 40m optimal. Fun Fact: The Breach AR accounts for a nearly a third of all Light Weapon sales. Source: http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php Why do you think that is, Myron? Toobar Zoobar wrote: How to nerf the HMG ... Fox Gaden just put up an idea thread. What do you think of it, Toobar?

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