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Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4164	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:13:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Scouts are not getting nerfed as a class, but Cloak as you know is getting nerfed. No matter how many scout threads in GD. It would be good to hear thoughts on sentinels, because I believe the proliferation of scouts in PC is a symptom to sentinel/hmg spam, and pretty much RE or shotgun is the only hard counter. Assaults are coming back slowly into PC though. Quoted from this thread found in the barbershop. I was really surprised to hear this coming from Rattati. Scouts are currently leading market sales while sentinels sit just below assault and logistic sales. The idea that so many scouts are being deployed to counter sentinels is chuckle worthy. If Rattati were to release the data relating to K/D by dropsuit I'm sure we would see scouts leading the charge there too. Scouts are ruling Dust 514 with a tiny cloaked fist; ranking by K/D, the top positions in all of my public contracts here lately are being occupied by scouts. Players are speccing into scout dropsuits purely to remain competitive, not because it is a playstyle they enjoy. I don't think I have to tell you that is awful, terrible game design. Please CCP, explain why this behavior is allowed to continue. If I am missing some data here, and that data explains everything, just tell me. : Dust Thang. Wish I had a more up to date snapshot of market data, but I'm working with the tools available to me here. **: If I am wrong then give us some insight into that data; public contract, FW, and PC. My advice to you, playa...

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9329	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:17:00 - [2] - Quote We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

X7 lion Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 397	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:18:00 - [3] - Quote just remember to compartmentalize bs scouts from people who have been doing it since closed beta ;) Do not contribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance. being contradictory is not the same as being offensive.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4166	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:22:00 - [4] - Quote X7 lion wrote: just remember to compartmentalize bs scouts from people who have been doing it since closed beta ;) And I do. Some players have been running the Gallente scout since beta. I'm not lumping them into my puesdo-rant. I'm not even all that mad at the FotM scouts. They see a competitive advantage in a certain fitting. In my post, I'm really addressing CCP's lack of movement in regards to scouts' overperformance. Scouts do so many things very well, and too few things poorly. That is not acceptable in a game that is supposedly focusing on balancing iterations. My advice to you, playa...
JIMvc2 The Wanga Empire Strikes Back 303	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:25:00 - [5] - Quote In my view I do like running scouts but not in a competitive way, just for fun. Even yesterday playing a couple matches I just died really quick like in less than 2 seconds boom but I don't mind if I die too much even for KD = Don't care and never will. MAG Raven vet 7 times. Favorite weapon F90 and Highest Kills 78 and 23 deaths.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4166	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:25:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Those must be some amazing cloaking changes... I'm assuming you think that cutting down on the cloaky-NK or shotgun scout kills will help. Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? My advice to you, playa...
X7 lion Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 398	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:25:00 - [7] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: X7 lion wrote: just remember to compartmentalize bs scouts from people who have been doing it since closed beta ;) And I do. Some players have been running the Gallente scout since beta. I'm not lumping them into my puesdo-rant. I'm not even all that mad at the FotM scouts. They see a competitive advantage in a certain fitting. In my post, I'm really addressing CCP's lack of movement in regards to scouts' overperformance. Scouts do so many things very well, and too few things poorly. That is not acceptable in a game that is supposedly focusing on balancing iterations. The opposite is also true. its sad other suits cant do more, its really a fundamental issue with dust that with any suit there is so much that can be made for it but there is only a tiny amount of content to use it on, leaving bottle neck problems as such. Do not contribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance. being contradictory is not the same as being offensive.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4166	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:28:00 - [8] - Quote X7 lion wrote: The opposite is also true. Its sad other suits cant do more, its really a fundamental issue with dust that with any suit there is so much that can be made for it but there is only a tiny amount of content to use it on, leaving bottle neck problems as such. I've often contemplated this: is it that scouts are overperforming or that other dropsuits are underperforming. I think the answer lies somewhere in between. My advice to you, playa...
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5047	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:31:00 - [9] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Those must be some amazing cloaking changes... I'm assuming you think that cutting down on the cloaky-NK or shotgun scout kills will help. Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? They are adjusting those weapons in a hotfix tomorrow. Not to mention giving native reps to everyone. Details found in this thread HERE. Also, I appreciate you pulling this thread out of the Barbershop for people to discuss. That was very respectful. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2243	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:35:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Maybe add more of a bonus to the scout suit, while also increasing CPU and PG cost, so logis really have to reduce what they can have on their suit to use a cloak. Oh, and test it in game first. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim

TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1395	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:37:00 - [11] - Quote The data reading : more scout suits are purchased : shows some high usage It also say Scouts get killed and need new suits quite often - which cost equal SP/ISK to yours Yet the issue 'Scouts have everything, no downsides'' ??? really??? The majority of MLT weapons having enough DPS to drop you in a blink is no downside at all ??? Also look at the amount of 'Slayers' that immediately became full-time scouts in 1.8 Most of these guys were slaying in Gk.0 logi's prior to cloaks, and it won't take long for them to find a new suit. la penna è sul tavolo THE PEN IS ON THE TABLE!!!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4728	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:39:00 - [12] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Scouts are not getting nerfed as a class, but Cloak as you know is getting nerfed. No matter how many scout threads in GD. It would be good to hear thoughts on sentinels, because I believe the proliferation of scouts in PC is a symptom to sentinel/hmg spam, and pretty much RE or shotgun is the only hard counter. Assaults are coming back slowly into PC though. Quoted from this thread found in the barbershop. I was really surprised to hear this coming from Rattati. Scouts are currently leading market sales while sentinels sit just below assault and logistic sales. The idea that so many scouts are being deployed to counter sentinels is chuckle worthy. If Rattati were to release the data relating to K/D by dropsuit I'm sure we would see scouts leading the charge there too. Scouts are ruling Dust 514 with a tiny cloaked fist; ranking by K/D, the top positions in all of my public contracts here lately are being occupied by scouts. Players are speccing into scout dropsuits purely to remain competitive, not because it is a playstyle they enjoy. I don't think I have to tell you that is awful, terrible game design. Please CCP, explain why this behavior is allowed to continue. If I am missing some data here, and that data explains everything, just tell me. : Dust Thang. Wish I had a more up to date snapshot of market data, but I'm working with the tools available to me here. **: If I am wrong then give us some insight into that data; public contract, FW, and PC. You are taking a quote discussing Scout proliferation in Planetary Conquest and applying it to your theories about Public Contracts. The reasons Scouts are common in Public matches and the reason they are common in Planetary Conquest are different. It is good that Rattati is giving consideration to both. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4728	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:47:00 - [13] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Those must be some amazing cloaking changes... I'm assuming you think that cutting down on the cloaky-NK or shotgun scout kills will help. Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I agree with you on that. I like the proposal to have a greater movement penalty on Armor Plate when it is placed on Light Frame suits. If a Scout stacks enough plate to have the HP of a Medium Frame suit, then they should have their speed reduced to that of a Medium Frame suit as well. I specifically like this solution because it only effects brick tanking Scouts, without effecting speed and EWar Scouts. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4172	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:47:00 - [14] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: The data reading : more scout suits are purchased : shows some high usage It also say Scouts get killed and need new suits quite often - which cost equal SP/ISK to yours Yet the issue 'Scouts have everything, no downsides'' ? really?. It is true that the data only shows scouts being purchased. I can't see how many scouts are being killed. No argument there. And I said, "Scouts do so many things very well, and too few things poorly." Misquoting me makes you sound defensive. Scouts are made of paper mache and tinkertoys, yes. However, they currently possess the ability to fit a dual tank that eliminates that penalty. And even with fitting a dual tank they still have impressive passive scans from their dropsuit bonuses. With EWAR being the state that is it, a scout can scan down just about everything except a dampened scout. In essence, they gain dual tank and sacrifice next to nothing. Scouts get to control the terms of the engagement; the direction, time, and place. They can do so when they know you are alone or your team is looking the other way. They get grenades and sidearms, just like an assault, so they aren't trading firepower for all of this intelligence. My advice to you, playa...
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4729	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:50:00 - [15] - Quote For the record, I feel that if the balance is done correctly the suit popularity should end up in this order: Assault Scout Logi Sentinel Commando Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 107	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:53:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Nothing will help scout dominance until scanning is fixed to not be completely worthless against competent scouts. Right now scanning provides perma scan vs. medium and heavy suits and does jack when used against scouts. Scanning needs to be fixed to be more fuzzy and scanning should ALWAYS win within a certain distance (i.e. a fully fitted scan suit should have ~20 meters or so of perma scan against fully damped scouts, otherwise shotgun/nova knife/remote bomb one shots out of cloak or just from behind will rule the battlefield and nothing will change that). Scanning should be the counter to scouts, not completely useless against them. Precision and Range modules should increase the range you scan enemies at, and dampeners should make that range lower again.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4020	Posted - 2014.10.27 16:11:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. I made a thread about sentinels regarding the sheer number of them. Honestly Rattati my opinion is that sentinels need to be evicted from CQC dominance and turned into a fire support platform rather than a chokepoint camper. CQC should always have been the purview of assault. Most real world meatgrinders happened in the open, approaching the target. What we have in DUST is the opposite, with the grinder happening after you breach the objective. Scout spam is a combination of things, but a lot of it is sentinels being confined indoors with zero detection. I hardly ever get killed by scouts in my sentinel on open ground. It's always inside a building as you lock in a defense. It's easier to catch the cloakers in open terrain. I hate being unable to articulate my points properly. TL;DR: the HMG needs a change in role. CQC fatties was never a good idea. You don't need speed in cqc, just momentum. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4172	Posted - 2014.10.27 16:18:00 - [18] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: For the record, I feel that if the balance is done correctly the suit popularity should end up in this order: Assault Scout Logi Sentinel Commando I can agree with that order. Scout and logi would be very nearly tied, in my mind. My advice to you, playa...
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1536	Posted - 2014.10.27 16:25:00 - [19] - Quote cloak was never the problem
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1766	Posted - 2014.10.27 16:49:00 - [20] - Quote This is two things Scout + cloak vs others Scout without cloak vs others Honestly, I find the cloak less useful, not having it frees up room for a second hive, or a needle or links plus CPU/pg. Any nerf to the cloak at this point just makes me want to run more tanked scouts since all my cloaked scouts are around 300 HP or less. Not much point in running a cloak less useful then the crappy one we have now which is situational at best. And for the record. I main a min scout. Delt for CPM2 CPM1 MISSION : FAILED Moss-delt on skype

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 182	Posted - 2014.10.27 16:50:00 - [21] - Quote Jack cloak is what injected the issues into the light armor class. The light armor class itself is balanced and this is the reason they are so resistant to changing it, but sadly it looks like they will nerf the cloak out of the game before they are willing to make a proper change... everyone knows scouts should be side arms only, but many covet pseudo skill and because of this the don't nerf me bro is very strong on these forums. FOT6M scouts. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 183	Posted - 2014.10.27 16:50:00 - [22] - Quote Jack cloak is what injected the issues into the light armor class. The light armor class itself is balanced and this is the reason they are so resistant to changing it, but sadly it looks like they will nerf the cloak so only the cheapest play styles will benefit from it before they are willing to make a proper change... everyone knows scouts should be side arms only, but many covet pseudo skill and because of this the don't nerf me bro is very strong on these forums. FOT6M scouts. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4174	Posted - 2014.10.27 16:52:00 - [23] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Any nerf to the cloak at this point just makes me want to run more tanked scouts since all my cloaked scouts are around 300 HP or less. Not much point in running a cloak less useful then the crappy one we have now which is situational at best.. Here is an interesting point that I had no thought of. By balancing the cloak CCP will encourage more scouts to become "light assault" dropsuits instead That's... worrisome. My advice to you, playa...
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1766	Posted - 2014.10.27 16:58:00 - [24] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Any nerf to the cloak at this point just makes me want to run more tanked scouts since all my cloaked scouts are around 300 HP or less. Not much point in running a cloak less useful then the crappy one we have now which is situational at best.. Here is an interesting point that I had no thought of. By balancing the cloak CCP will encourage more scouts to become "light assault" dropsuits instead That's... worrisome. Quite simply, any nerf to the cloak makes me want to go from my pro to fitting which has currently 280ish HP to one with right around 620. Delt for CPM2 CPM1 MISSION : FAILED Moss-delt on skype
Duke Noobiam Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 226	Posted - 2014.10.27 16:59:00 - [25] - Quote Why not moderately increase the size of the scout's hitbox as well as implementing a proper un-cloaking delay? The larger hitbox would address the super-strafing assault scouts and would not impact the scouts that rely on stealth. How do you kill that which has no life?
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1397	Posted - 2014.10.27 17:04:00 - [26] - Quote Defensive slightly but mostly I just disagree with seeing yet another false thread on Scout balance and having to wait and wonder why Cloak nerfs are expected to do anything other than hurt the Scout role And I mean the actual Cloaked Scout role, not the speed logi // assault-lite Cloak already takes up too much fitting, and it is not good enough Yet nerfing Cloaks solves the 700hp scout suit issue how??? (you realise these do not run cloak??) Rather than advocating killing a role, that yes it's spammed but is still one of the tougher roles to run in DUST If the correct balance was taken (better EWAR on other frames) (less hp on Lights) the fix would be simple. Yet due to every merc (not in a scout suit) just throwing together posts aimed at nerfing Scouts Rather than actually listening to the mercs that run the role before and after 1.8.... And now what you have is due to the overflowing tearbuckets at CCP - A Cloak nerf to encourage all the EQ spam/slayer scouts you can dream of Mercs should have stuck to Shooting Scout with YES la penna è sul tavolo THE PEN IS ON THE TABLE!!!
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 580	Posted - 2014.10.27 18:23:00 - [27] - Quote The cloak isn't even slightly the problem with scouts... Another nice fail Rattati. Inb4 "scrub defending his crutch" I have a lvl 1 scout just because I wanted to try the cloak when it was released (on something other than my commando) & I don't bother using it anymore unless I want to annoy the usual scouts by downing them with a breach shotgun... I don't need 8 shots : )
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 111	Posted - 2014.10.27 18:37:00 - [28] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: [...] Scanning needs to be fixed to be more fuzzy and scanning should ALWAYS win within a certain distance (i.e. a fully fitted scan suit should have ~20 meters or so of perma scan against fully damped scouts, otherwise shotgun/nova knife/remote bomb one shots out of cloak or just from behind will rule the battlefield and nothing will change that). [...] I can agree with normalizing scanning potentials, but giving people a 20m perma-scan is absolutely insane. Not only would you kill nova knife playstyle, sneaking up on a group of people will be completely impossible.
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 111	Posted - 2014.10.27 18:45:00 - [29] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: The cloak isn't even slightly the problem with scouts... Another nice fail Rattati. [...] Getting tired of people bashing the one dev we have left, doing more than anyone ever has to make the game better and more enjoyable.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 580	Posted - 2014.10.27 18:50:00 - [30] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: The cloak isn't even slightly the problem with scouts... Another nice fail Rattati. [...] Getting tired of people bashing the one dev we have left, doing more than anyone ever has to make the game better and more enjoyable. & I'm getting tired of him making bad decisions... Plus there's a few devs left... Archduke shotgunned me in the back yesterday.

PARKOUR PRACTIONER Nox Lupos 2167	Posted - 2014.10.27 18:51:00 - [31] - Quote X7 beat me to it even though i didnt existing in Beta. Thanks for not grouping us in Riley. Mainly here to see were this goes. PSN Sil4ntChaozz Scout Devottee, Mk.0/Gk.0, Avid Nova Knifer, Semi Non-Cloaker /Z)/V//V 2.0 /V//V_//\
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4181	Posted - 2014.10.27 18:51:00 - [32] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: I'm getting tired of him making bad decisions... Plus there's a few devs left... Archduke shotgunned me in the back yesterday. Archduke is a GM. He provides customer support, not development. My advice to you, playa...
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 580	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:00:00 - [33] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: I'm getting tired of him making bad decisions... Plus there's a few devs left... Archduke shotgunned me in the back yesterday. Archduke is a GM. He provides customer support, not development. You suggest that's less important than number crunching and making spreadsheets?
Eruditus 920 Nemo Malus Felix 609	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:02:00 - [34] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I agree with you on that. I like the proposal to have a greater movement penalty on Armor Plate when it is placed on Light Frame suits. If a Scout stacks enough plate to have the HP of a Medium Frame suit, then they should have their speed reduced to that of a Medium Frame suit as well. I specifically like this solution because it only effects brick tanking Scouts, without effecting speed and EWar Scouts. I hear this complaint about scouts stacking plates quite often. Full disclosure: I have a proto gal scout and a proto Min Ass. A few weeks ago to see what the fuss was about I made a fit on my scout of 4 complex armor plates and 2 complex shield extenders. I don't run my scout tanked normally. I believe the eHP was 989 which is around the eHp of one of my proto Min Ass fits. However, the Gal scout was about a full second slower in sprint speed than the Assault using no biotic modules on either. So to your point, not only was their "speed reduced to that of a Medium Frame" it was reduced to well below it. With my Ewar maxed, my Assault is also surprisingly stealthy, quick, and with damage mods very lethal. I have similar results with both. "Stay gold, Ponyboy..."
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 184	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:02:00 - [35] - Quote I think the real issue here is that the GM plays a shotgun scout lol. /lynchmob The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4183	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:06:00 - [36] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: I'm getting tired of him making bad decisions... Plus there's a few devs left... Archduke shotgunned me in the back yesterday. Archduke is a GM. He provides customer support, not development. You suggest that's less important than number crunching and making spreadsheets? No, you did, when you put words in my mouth You said, there are a few devs left then specifically named Archduke. He's not a dev. He's a GM, an important position, but not involved in development. My advice to you, playa...
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 580	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:14:00 - [37] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: I think the real issue here is that the GM plays a shotgun scout lol. /lynchmob Actually it was a shotgun logistics... A standard shotgun on a proto logistic suit... he took 4 shots to down my Commando, but I turned around and only landed one of my 2 breach shotgun shots... I let myself down. Ripley Riley wrote: You said, there are a few devs left then specifically named Archduke. He's not a dev. He's a GM, an important position, but not involved in development. When you're done derailing the topic... & okay Rouge is still working on the game, remember he's worked on 1.9 as well... So feel free to blow your semantics where they're welcome... GM's help the game just as much as devs do (or in this case more, because at least he doesn't **** things up, lol.) Let's not start a fanboy war over who's the favourite. They're all big boys, they can take some criticism.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 184	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:15:00 - [38] - Quote Eruditus 920 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I agree with you on that. I like the proposal to have a greater movement penalty on Armor Plate when it is placed on Light Frame suits. If a Scout stacks enough plate to have the HP of a Medium Frame suit, then they should have their speed reduced to that of a Medium Frame suit as well. I specifically like this solution because it only effects brick tanking Scouts, without effecting speed and EWar Scouts. I hear this complaint about scouts stacking plates quite often. Full disclosure: I have a proto gal scout and a proto Min Ass. A few weeks ago to see what the fuss was about I made a fit on my scout of 4 complex armor plates and 2 complex shield extenders. I don't run my scout tanked normally. I believe the eHP was 989 which is around the eHp of one of my proto Min Ass fits. However, the Gal scout was about a full second slower in sprint speed than the Assault using no biotic modules on either. So to your point, not only was their "speed reduced to that of a Medium Frame" it was reduced to well below it. With my Ewar maxed, my Assault is also surprisingly stealthy, quick, and with damage mods very lethal. I have similar results with both. The fit you chose is improper for the discussion you use plates and kincats to subvert the speed loss and use the shotty. Now you don't need to strife or hide at all you just run directly into someone and one shot them because you are even faster despite the armor penalties. When they bring up the strife scout it is a less armored scout that rely on shield regeneration at optimal ranges that they have the ability to set do to cloak. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 112	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:18:00 - [39] - Quote STAYING ON POINT OF DISCUSSION Let's see how the cloak nerf goes. We complain when they change too much at the same time, we complain when they change too little, we complain when they change one side of the coin, we complain when they change both sides at the same time... Damn this community, any more of this crap and we will just get what we deserve. How about we see how it goes and if it needs further tweaking we can ask Rattati to do just that?
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5051	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:18:00 - [40] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Any nerf to the cloak at this point just makes me want to run more tanked scouts since all my cloaked scouts are around 300 HP or less. Not much point in running a cloak less useful then the crappy one we have now which is situational at best.. Here is an interesting point that I had no thought of. By balancing the cloak CCP will encourage more scouts to become "light assault" dropsuits instead That's... worrisome. Quite simply, any nerf to the cloak makes me want to go from my pro to fitting which has currently 280ish HP to one with right around 620. Also, here's a picture of what happens when a scout forgoes the cloak for more HP less cloaky, more shooty I think the "Nerf" to the cloak that Rattati is talking about is very small, and needed. I also run Min. All he is doing is creating a 0.33 second delay before firing a weapon (using EQ?). That is next to nothing in my opinion. On top of that HE IS FIXING THE SPRINT GLITCH!!!!!! (He says with excitment). In my opinion, that is a net buff to me and my play style. Plus, I have to worry less about shotguns to the face, as does everyone else. Duke Noobiam wrote: Why not moderately increase the size of the scout's hitbox as well as implementing a proper un-cloaking delay? The larger hitbox would address the super-strafing assault scouts and would not impact the scouts that rely on stealth. Did you not read the 1.9 thread, or do you simply not think that a 0.33 second delay is proper? You can always tell a Millford Minja

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9899	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:22:00 - [41] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Jack cloak is what injected the issues into the light armor class. The light armor class itself is balanced and this is the reason they are so resistant to changing it, but sadly it looks like they will nerf the cloak so only the cheapest play styles will benefit from it before they are willing to make a proper change... everyone knows scouts should be side arms only, but many covet pseudo skill and because of this the don't nerf me bro is very strong on these forums. FOT6M scouts. You don't speak for me. You speak only for yourself. Therefore you can't claim that everyone knows scouts should be sidearms only. I know that scouts DON'T need to be sidearm only. As I said before, I would rather much see scouts have 1 light slight to accommodate one of two weapon classes per fit (light or sidearm) rather than see a sidearm-only restriction. But as I also said before, I don't like that idea either and I would rather see scouts keep both of their slots. The problem here is not that the slot availability is making the scouts too good. It's other things. As CCP Rattati pointed out in the Barborshop thread in detail, he is looking to see if turning the passive bonuses of the EWAR into efficacy bonuses would work. What this would mean is that instead of stacking armor/shield and everything on the scout while still benefiting from EWAR passively without any of the related modules, you would be forced to have to fit the related EWAR mods in order to benefit from the EWAR itself. Therefore a Gallente Scout and an Amarr Scout (examples) would have to give up their tanking modules and start fitting profile dampeners if they want to hide from scans. They also won't be able to fit damage mods without giving up too much of their precision effectiveness. To me, this is a better trade off and is a far better alternative than just restricting scouts to sidearms only especially since players like me can already wreck people without a light weapon anyways using only Ishukone Nova Knives which apparently can do a FAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRR better job of killing any suit than a shotgun can primarily because of their OHK advantage. A pair of Ishukone Nova Knives can OHK a tanked up Sentinel or Commando and are now able to severely deal damage to a tank if done right. In fact, I have killed a couple of Tanks and an LAV since it's implementation. I have even killed a Dropship with these knives. I'm surprised that after two years no one has called these knives OP. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5054	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:23:00 - [42] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: STAYING ON POINT OF DISCUSSION Let's see how the cloak nerf goes. We complain when they change too much at the same time, we complain when they change too little, we complain when they change one side of the coin, we complain when they change both sides at the same time... Damn this community, any more of this crap and we will just get what we deserve. How about we see how it goes and if it needs further tweaking we can ask Rattati to do just that? Totally agree with this. With a Hotfix tomorrow, and what is looking to be 1.9 next week, that should be plenty of changes, which we can assess in the weeks after. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1769	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:25:00 - [43] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Any nerf to the cloak at this point just makes me want to run more tanked scouts since all my cloaked scouts are around 300 HP or less. Not much point in running a cloak less useful then the crappy one we have now which is situational at best.. Here is an interesting point that I had no thought of. By balancing the cloak CCP will encourage more scouts to become "light assault" dropsuits instead That's... worrisome. Quite simply, any nerf to the cloak makes me want to go from my pro to fitting which has currently 280ish HP to one with right around 620. Also, here's a picture of what happens when a scout forgoes the cloak for more HP less cloaky, more shooty I think the "Nerf" to the cloak that Rattati is talking about is very small, and needed. I also run Min. All he is doing is creating a 0.33 second delay before firing a weapon (using EQ?). That is next to nothing in my opinion. On top of that HE IS FIXING THE SPRINT GLITCH!!!!!! (He says with excitment). In my opinion, that is a net buff to me and my play style. Plus, I have to worry less about shotguns to the face, as does everyone else. Duke Noobiam wrote: Why not moderately increase the size of the scout's hitbox as well as implementing a proper un-cloaking delay? The larger hitbox would address the super-strafing assault scouts and would not impact the scouts that rely on stealth. Did you not read the 1.9 thread, or do you simply not think that a 0.33 second delay is proper? The point is, I'm currently on the edge of just not bothering with the cloak and going full tank mode. Delt for CPM2 CPM1 MISSION : FAILED Moss-delt on skype
Eruditus 920 Nemo Malus Felix 612	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:27:00 - [44] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: STAYING ON POINT OF DISCUSSION Let's see how the cloak nerf goes. We complain when they change too much at the same time, we complain when they change too little, we complain when they change one side of the coin, we complain when they change both sides at the same time... Damn this community, any more of this crap and we will just get what we deserve. How about we see how it goes and if it needs further tweaking we can ask Rattati to do just that? Totally agree with this. With a Hotfix tomorrow, and what is looking to be 1.9 next week, that should be plenty of changes, which we can assess in the weeks after. Damn your cool headed logic! "Stay gold, Ponyboy..."
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5055	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:30:00 - [45] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: The point is, I'm currently on the edge of just not bothering with the cloak and going full tank mode. Is that 0.33 delay enough to put you over the edge? If so, do you think that a significant number of cloak users will feel the same way? Will it be just enough to get rid of the FotM scouts? (Tune in 3 weeks to find out!) You can always tell a Millford Minja
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 184	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:34:00 - [46] - Quote Maken tosh any change to ewar unless resulting in parity would be a fictitious change to balance. Even if a change resulted in parity it would still leave more to be desired because ewar has no effect at ranges of strife scouts and isn't needed by armored shotgun scouts. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 185	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:34:00 - [47] - Quote Maken tosh any change to ewar unless resulting in parity would be a fictitious change to balance. Even if a change resulted in parity it would still leave more to be desired because ewar has no effect at ranges of strife scouts and isn't needed by armored shotgun scouts. Furthermore it would result in nerfing scouts that actually play the role of scout. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9901	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:40:00 - [48] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: The point is, I'm currently on the edge of just not bothering with the cloak and going full tank mode. Is that 0.33 delay enough to put you over the edge? If so, do you think that a significant number of cloak users will feel the same way? Will it be just enough to get rid of the FotM scouts? (Tune in 3 weeks to find out!) Probably not. Honestly, 0.33 second is not going to affect me at all. It takes only 0.6 second to fully charge up my Ishukone Nova Nova Knives. Of course, that would mean I would have to wait 0.93 second for a complete charge up under the new delay but 1 second is all I need anyways. All I would have to do is decloak from a distance so they can't hear the decloak noise, get behind one of the redberries and then quietly stab them. It would be more than a second by the time I get into position anyways after decloaking. Besides, I've been revisiting my Old School ways of running around without the cloak and so far I am able to scare a lot of people even on maps like Manus Peaks. Even after the nerf to cloak, I will continue to run with a no-tank scout fitted only with Kin Cats and Damage mods. ;) On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 582	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:42:00 - [49] - Quote If you see a cloaked scout and don't shoot them before they switch weapons and fire, then it really doesn't make a damn bit of difference if they didn't decloak before they fired, because you're dead anyway. I haven't been downed by someone cloaked since the first week we got cloaks, because I learned that the cloak is pretty friggin useless for these poor buggers... It doesn't make them harder to kill, quite the opposite.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9901	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:44:00 - [50] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Maken tosh any change to ewar unless resulting in parity would be a fictitious change to balance. Even if a change resulted in parity it would still leave more to be desired because ewar has no effect at ranges of strife scouts and isn't needed by armored shotgun scouts. Regardless, restricting scouts to sidearm-only is not a good idea. You are still not considering the snipers who may have already deeply invested into the scout suit for their sniper weapon. What you are suggesting is effectively forcing these players into a weapon class which none of them wanted to specialize into anyways. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5056	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:49:00 - [51] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Maken tosh any change to ewar unless resulting in parity would be a fictitious change to balance. Even if a change resulted in parity it would still leave more to be desired because ewar has no effect at ranges of strife scouts and isn't needed by armored shotgun scouts. Regardless, restricting scouts to sidearm-only is not a good idea. You are still not considering the snipers who may have already deeply invested into the scout suit for their sniper weapon. What you are suggesting is effectively forcing these players into a weapon class which none of them wanted to specialize into anyways. Not to mention I am pretty sure CCP isn't on board with this. The idea has been thrown around for months, if not over a year (when it was brought up for Logis), and I seem to remember them not liking the idea, at all, at some point. I am pretty sure you are not going to get much feedback otherwise, and you are beating a dead horse. But if it makes you feel better to keep bringing it up, that is up to you. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4187	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:50:00 - [52] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Regardless, restricting scouts to sidearm-only is not a good idea. You are still not considering the snipers who may have already deeply invested into the scout suit for their sniper weapon. What you are suggesting is effectively forcing these players into a weapon class which none of them wanted to specialize into anyways. Sidearm only scouts is too much of a nerf. I see that now. Light weapon only is borderline acceptable. My advice to you, playa...
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 184	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:52:00 - [53] - Quote An effective and positive change to the game and balance should be held a bay because some will be upset that they have invested to much sp into them?.... You are playing the same game I am right? Edit: the reason I did not quote was I was trying to avoid derailing the thread and was hoping for a sub dialog between he and I. plz carry on The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 185	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:52:00 - [54] - Quote An effective and positive change to the game and balance should be held a bay because some will be upset that they have invested to much sp into them?.... You are playing the same game I am right? Edit: the reason I did not quote was I was trying to avoid derailing the thread and was hoping for a sub dialog between he and I. plz carry on The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1983	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:56:00 - [55] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Maken tosh any change to ewar unless resulting in parity would be a fictitious change to balance. Even if a change resulted in parity it would still leave more to be desired because ewar has no effect at ranges of strife scouts and isn't needed by armored shotgun scouts. Furthermore it would result in nerfing scouts that actually play the role of scout. I totally disagree. At this point scouts who are not using e-war modules still have their passive ewar benefits, which in the case of all the scouts save the Min (which has no e-war bonus) gives them a distinct advantage on the battle field. Think about it this way. My adv Cal scout has 600hp and zero e-war modules beyond a basic cloak. Currently still get a 25% bonus to my scan radius as well as 15% dampening bonus. This gives me a huge advantage on the battlefield both in terms of being able to choose targets as well as avoid those I can't take on. All of this adds up to a massive boost to my killing power and my survivability. Changing the bonuses to be dependent upon me putting e-war modules on the suit would force me to reduce my tank to get that same level of survivability. Making the suit skill a bonus to modules makes far more sense than removing the light weapon slot which is simply a knee-jerk reaction and would be more appropriately affective. All of that being said I would really like to see a total re-write of the ewar system as it is too binary in its current state. E-war is by far the largest unbalancing factor with regards to scouts. Now with more evil.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9902	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:57:00 - [56] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: An effective and positive change to the game and balance should be held a bay because some will be upset that they have invested to much sp into them?.... You are playing the same game I am right? Edit: the reason I did not quote was I was trying to avoid derailing the thread and was hoping for a sub dialog between he and I. plz carry on Yes, I am playing the same game. To borrow an old saying... "We all read the Bible day and night, But you read black where I read white." On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9902	Posted - 2014.10.27 20:00:00 - [57] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Maken tosh any change to ewar unless resulting in parity would be a fictitious change to balance. Even if a change resulted in parity it would still leave more to be desired because ewar has no effect at ranges of strife scouts and isn't needed by armored shotgun scouts. Furthermore it would result in nerfing scouts that actually play the role of scout. I totally disagree. At this point scouts who are not using e-war modules still have their passive ewar benefits, which in the case of all the scouts save the Min (which has no e-war bonus) gives them a distinct advantage on the battle field. Think about it this way. My adv Cal scout has 600hp and zero e-war modules beyond a basic cloak. Currently still get a 25% bonus to my scan radius as well as 15% dampening bonus. This gives me a huge advantage on the battlefield both in terms of being able to choose targets as well as avoid those I can't take on. All of this adds up to a massive boost to my killing power and my survivability. Changing the bonuses to be dependent upon me putting e-war modules on the suit would force me to reduce my tank to get that same level of survivability. Making the suit skill a bonus to modules makes far more sense than removing the light weapon slot which is simply a knee-jerk reaction and would be more appropriately affective. All of that being said I would really like to see a total re-write of the ewar system as it is too binary in its current state. E-war is by far the largest unbalancing factor with regards to scouts. This is exactly the kind of point I've been trying to convey. But apparently some people don't get it. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 520	Posted - 2014.10.27 20:11:00 - [58] - Quote Wait until the CQC Flame Thrower the Gallete are getting as a heavy weapon in 1.9. Then we'll see the real bitching begin. 6 meter death machine of plasma spewing madness. I'm sure the scouts will melt to the AOE damage from them. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5058	Posted - 2014.10.27 20:21:00 - [59] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Maken tosh any change to ewar unless resulting in parity would be a fictitious change to balance. Even if a change resulted in parity it would still leave more to be desired because ewar has no effect at ranges of strife scouts and isn't needed by armored shotgun scouts. Furthermore it would result in nerfing scouts that actually play the role of scout. I totally disagree. At this point scouts who are not using e-war modules still have their passive ewar benefits, which in the case of all the scouts save the Min (which has no e-war bonus) gives them a distinct advantage on the battle field. Think about it this way. My adv Cal scout has 600hp and zero e-war modules beyond a basic cloak. Currently still get a 25% bonus to my scan radius as well as 15% dampening bonus. This gives me a huge advantage on the battlefield both in terms of being able to choose targets as well as avoid those I can't take on. All of this adds up to a massive boost to my killing power and my survivability. Changing the bonuses to be dependent upon me putting e-war modules on the suit would force me to reduce my tank to get that same level of survivability. Making the suit skill a bonus to modules makes far more sense than removing the light weapon slot which is simply a knee-jerk reaction and would be more appropriately affective. All of that being said I would really like to see a total re-write of the ewar system as it is too binary in its current state. E-war is by far the largest unbalancing factor with regards to scouts. This is exactly the kind of point I've been trying to convey. But apparently some people don't get it. I think some people are too lazy to figure out all the details, and all the ways in which their ideas would affect all areas of the game. Either that, or they simply lack the creativity to directly address the problem directly. I have seen a number of people say, "Scout cloak is too strong, lets take away their light weapons!" Really? How do you get from the assessment of the issue to that conclusion? You can always tell a Millford Minja
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4738	Posted - 2014.10.27 20:29:00 - [60] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: An effective and positive change to the game and balance should be held a bay because some will be upset that they have invested to much sp into them?.... You are playing the same game I am right? Edit: the reason I did not quote was I was trying to avoid derailing the thread and was hoping for a sub dialog between he and I. plz carry on Restricting Scouts to sidearm only would not be an effective and positive change to the game and balance. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 184	Posted - 2014.10.27 20:34:00 - [61] - Quote Modules and math... The ewar bonuses are effective against other scouts only and are restricted by slots and the mods themselves and therefore have no practical application in respect to our discussion. Unless we had ewar parity. Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance. - Plato The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 185	Posted - 2014.10.27 20:34:00 - [62] - Quote Modules and math... The ewar bonuses are effective against other scouts only and are restricted by slots and the mods themselves and therefore have no practical application in respect to our discussion. Unless we had ewar and slot parity. Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance. - Plato The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 619	Posted - 2014.10.27 20:38:00 - [63] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. your data is flawed and incomplete. it doesnt account for ewar kills. i abuse the mini map with my cal scout and my survivability and kdr goes through the roof. i dont even use a cloak. ewar in this game was not evenly distributed and balanced among all suit classes. the scouts all have game breaking advantages over all other suits. you can not fight what you can not see.
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1065	Posted - 2014.10.27 20:49:00 - [64] - Quote Sentinels have little if nothing to do with the dominance of scouts in PC. How to balance cloaks.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5070	Posted - 2014.10.27 20:53:00 - [65] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. your data is flawed and incomplete. it doesnt account for ewar kills. i abuse the mini map with my cal scout and my survivability and kdr goes through the roof. i dont even use a cloak. ewar in this game was not evenly distributed and balanced among all suit classes. the scouts all have game breaking advantages over all other suits. you can not fight what you can not see. You are assuming Tacnet is the only vision available. If I had to place a bet on which was more accurate, CCP meta data, or your bias, I would put my money on CCP data. There is greater balance than ever has been before, and it is getting better still. I don't think you really experienced "game breaking." No more Sprint Glitch? This party is going to be off the hook!
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 132	Posted - 2014.10.27 22:58:00 - [66] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Those must be some amazing cloaking changes... I'm assuming you think that cutting down on the cloaky-NK or shotgun scout kills will help. Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I'd like to know devs answer about that. I know they are working hard to fixes and update, but why are they ALL THE TIME fixing secondary stuffs?!?!? Changing cloak data won't change anything. Sorry for my bad english.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5070	Posted - 2014.10.27 23:04:00 - [67] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Those must be some amazing cloaking changes... I'm assuming you think that cutting down on the cloaky-NK or shotgun scout kills will help. Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I'd like to know devs answer about that. I know they are working hard to fixes and update, but why are they ALL THE TIME fixing secondary stuffs?!?!? Changing cloak data won't change anything. Hotfix out tomorrow with some rifle and bolt pistol balancing changes. Also, I found a good thread on how to handle scouts HERE. Its pretty much all you need to know about taking on scouts. No more Sprint Glitch? This party is going to be off the hook!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2681	Posted - 2014.10.27 23:56:00 - [68] - Quote Other than anecdotal evidence, what reason is there to nerf scouts? I don't understand at all If you want game breakingly OP, try active scanner slayer Logis of 1.6 and prior, or the Chromosome Scout, which was actually something to fear. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 132	Posted - 2014.10.27 23:56:00 - [69] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Those must be some amazing cloaking changes... I'm assuming you think that cutting down on the cloaky-NK or shotgun scout kills will help. Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I'd like to know devs answer about that. I know they are working hard to fixes and update, but why are they ALL THE TIME fixing secondary stuffs?!?!? Changing cloak data won't change anything. Hotfix out tomorrow with some rifle and bolt pistol balancing changes. Also, I found a good thread on how to handle scouts HERE. Its pretty much all you need to know about taking on scouts. As I said hotfixes are nice to have, they are needed. But as long as the main problem of this game (sh!ttier servers of all times) will not be fixed, hotfixes will not change ANYTHING. Sorry for my bad english.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9908	Posted - 2014.10.28 00:19:00 - [70] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Those must be some amazing cloaking changes... I'm assuming you think that cutting down on the cloaky-NK or shotgun scout kills will help. Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I'd like to know devs answer about that. I know they are working hard to fixes and update, but why are they ALL THE TIME fixing secondary stuffs?!?!? Changing cloak data won't change anything. Hotfix out tomorrow with some rifle and bolt pistol balancing changes. Also, I found a good thread on how to handle scouts HERE. Its pretty much all you need to know about taking on scouts. As I said hotfixes are nice to have, they are needed. But as long as the main problem of this game (sh!ttier servers of all times) will not be fixed, hotfixes will not change ANYTHING. Which is why an actual update patch like 1.9 is needed for the major stuff. There are some problems that are too hard coded into the client to be fixed with a hotfix. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5079	Posted - 2014.10.28 00:30:00 - [71] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Those must be some amazing cloaking changes... I'm assuming you think that cutting down on the cloaky-NK or shotgun scout kills will help. Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I'd like to know devs answer about that. I know they are working hard to fixes and update, but why are they ALL THE TIME fixing secondary stuffs?!?!? Changing cloak data won't change anything. Hotfix out tomorrow with some rifle and bolt pistol balancing changes. Also, I found a good thread on how to handle scouts HERE. Its pretty much all you need to know about taking on scouts. As I said hotfixes are nice to have, they are needed. But as long as the main problem of this game (sh!ttier servers of all times) will not be fixed, hotfixes will not change ANYTHING. I beg to differ. If you played 1.8 before Alpha, and play it now, you will notice a difference. Furthermore, if you played Uprising from 1.0 to 1.8 you will realize that Rattati has done more with the hotfixes than all those other devs did with updates. No more Sprint Glitch? This party is going to be off the hook!
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 429	Posted - 2014.10.28 01:49:00 - [72] - Quote X7 lion wrote: just remember to compartmentalize bs scouts from people who have been doing it since closed beta ;) Exactly! "Anybody order chaos?"
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1439	Posted - 2015.01.02 18:10:00 - [73] - Quote o/ Riley Dust Thang market data has been updated: http://dust.thang.dk/market_historycategory.php Assault Sales are looking pretty good. What are your thoughts?
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2654	Posted - 2015.01.02 19:35:00 - [74] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. (how about vehicles?) I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5997	Posted - 2015.01.02 19:47:00 - [75] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: o/ Riley Dust Thang market data has been updated: http://dust.thang.dk/market_historycategory.php Assault Sales are looking pretty good. What are your thoughts? I was just looking at the market data Vitan. It appears that as of early December the assault dropsuits have overtaken the scouts. The scan falloff, armor plate strafe speed penalty, and cloaking scan radius reduction no doubt effected these numbers. Personally, I am enjoying seeing so many assaults on the battlefield. Scouts are still deadly, but they are no longer god-mode. The newest FotM appears to be the MinAssault. I attribute its success to one of the scouts' perks: high strafe speeds. Since Minmatar assault dropsuits typically avoid armor plates in favor of ferroscale or reactives, they are not encumbered by armor and can out strafe most other assaults. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 292	Posted - 2015.01.02 19:52:00 - [76] - Quote Scouts are no longer really scouts though, they are just ambush slayers. I wish they would figure out a way to make scanning the primary purpose of scouts and make it globally inferior for killing stuff.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5997	Posted - 2015.01.02 19:59:00 - [77] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: I wish they would figure out a way to make scanning the primary purpose of scouts and make it globally inferior for killing stuff. First, we would have to limit the scouts' offensive capabilities. There are several schools of thought on how that should be done; sidearm-only (booooo), light weapon only, remove grenade. Then we would have to retool the dropsuit command bonuses for scout to provide module efficacy instead of flat bonuses. Hell, make those efficacy bonuses massive, I don't care, but make it so that in order to be good at EWAR you must fit a module. This would deincentivize tanking a scout dropsuit too heavily. Lastly, make the scout and logi dropsuits the only suits that share passive scan data. Assault, sentinel, and commandos should have to depend on their logibros for near-by scans and their scoutbros for scans at the next objective. Make sense? Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
Dreis Shadowweaver T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1111	Posted - 2015.01.02 20:04:00 - [78] - Quote X7 lion wrote: just remember to compartmentalize bs scouts from people who have been doing it since closed beta ;) Where have you been?! I thought you quit! Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3 I'm bringing back Contact Nades :P
Henrietta Unknown Kaalmayoti Warzone Control 701	Posted - 2015.01.02 20:14:00 - [79] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: [quote=Vesta Opalus] Then we would have to retool the dropsuit command bonuses for scout to provide module efficacy instead of flat bonuses. Hell, make those efficacy bonuses massive, I don't care, but make it so that in order to be good at EWAR you must fit a module. This would deincentivize tanking a scout dropsuit too heavily. Agreed. Just been in a squad of casuals, where it was futile to argue with a guy who'd put only one damp on his gk.0 scout, even though we were entering a competitive FW match with potentially stronger enemy scans. Instead, he tanked it to 500+ armor, and claimed that he'd never been scanned, and had a high survivability rate, so why bother? Updates should make it so this abusive playstyle is neutered. Please buff my Magsex. It doesn't hit hard enough...
Tectonic Fusion 2270	Posted - 2015.01.02 20:17:00 - [80] - Quote Henrietta Unknown wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: [quote=Vesta Opalus] Then we would have to retool the dropsuit command bonuses for scout to provide module efficacy instead of flat bonuses. Hell, make those efficacy bonuses massive, I don't care, but make it so that in order to be good at EWAR you must fit a module. This would deincentivize tanking a scout dropsuit too heavily. Agreed. Just been in a squad of casuals, where it was futile to argue with a guy who'd put only one damp on his gk.0 scout, even though we were entering a competitive FW match with potentially stronger enemy scans. Instead, he tanked it to 500+ armor, and claimed that he'd never been scanned, and had a high survivability rate, so why bother? Updates should make it so this abusive playstyle is neutered. Use a dampened assault scrub. They're viable now. 1 complex damp and stack armor and shields. (GIF)

Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 294	Posted - 2015.01.02 20:37:00 - [81] - Quote Henrietta Unknown wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: [quote=Vesta Opalus] Then we would have to retool the dropsuit command bonuses for scout to provide module efficacy instead of flat bonuses. Hell, make those efficacy bonuses massive, I don't care, but make it so that in order to be good at EWAR you must fit a module. This would deincentivize tanking a scout dropsuit too heavily. Agreed. Just been in a squad of casuals, where it was futile to argue with a guy who'd put only one damp on his gk.0 scout, even though we were entering a competitive FW match with potentially stronger enemy scans. Instead, he tanked it to 500+ armor, and claimed that he'd never been scanned, and had a high survivability rate, so why bother? Updates should make it so this abusive playstyle is neutered. Tanked scout fits have always been a non-problem. They suck pretty bad compared to just running an assault. The issue was dampened fits with decent scans and a shotgun running roughshod over the rest of the suits due to a huge disparity in intel and damage output.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1441	Posted - 2015.01.02 20:52:00 - [82] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: I wish they would figure out a way to make scanning the primary purpose of scouts and make it globally inferior for killing stuff. Ripley Riley wrote: First, we would have to limit the scouts' offensive capabilities... I'm as happy as anyone to find the Scout no longer FoTM, but for what reason(s) should detract from its offensive capabilities?
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5999	Posted - 2015.01.02 21:56:00 - [83] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: I'm as happy as anyone to find the Scout no longer FoTM, but for what reason(s) should we now detract from its offensive capabilities? I was just theorycrafting what would have to be done if CCP wanted to reduce scouts' offensive capabilities. I think they are still too assault-y, but they aren't OP anymore so I'm happy. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
7th Son 7 Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 54	Posted - 2015.01.02 22:12:00 - [84] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Scouts are not getting nerfed as a class, but Cloak as you know is getting nerfed. No matter how many scout threads in GD. It would be good to hear thoughts on sentinels, because I believe the proliferation of scouts in PC is a symptom to sentinel/hmg spam, and pretty much RE or shotgun is the only hard counter. Assaults are coming back slowly into PC though. Quoted from this thread found in the barbershop. I was really surprised to hear this coming from Rattati. Scouts are currently leading market sales while sentinels sit just below assault and logistic sales. The idea that so many scouts are being deployed to counter sentinels is chuckle worthy. If Rattati were to release the data relating to K/D by dropsuit I'm sure we would see scouts leading the charge there too. Scouts are ruling Dust 514 with a tiny cloaked fist; ranking by K/D, the top positions in all of my public contracts here lately are being occupied by scouts. Players are speccing into scout dropsuits purely to remain competitive, not because it is a playstyle they enjoy. I don't think I have to tell you that is awful, terrible game design. Please CCP, explain why this behavior is allowed to continue. If I am missing some data here, and that data explains everything, just tell me. : Dust Thang. Wish I had a more up to date snapshot of market data, but I'm working with the tools available to me here. **: If I am wrong then give us some insight into that data; public contract, FW, and PC. +1 for you sir
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3287	Posted - 2015.01.02 22:18:00 - [85] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: I'm as happy as anyone to find the Scout no longer FoTM, but for what reason(s) should we now detract from its offensive capabilities? I was just theorycrafting what would have to be done if CCP wanted to reduce scouts' offensive capabilities. I think they are still too assault-y, but they aren't OP anymore so I'm happy. Its kinda sad that the only viable weapons to use on scouts anymore are rifles... Particularly the BrAR "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1448	Posted - 2015.01.02 22:19:00 - [86] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I agree with you on that. I like the proposal to have a greater movement penalty on Armor Plate when it is placed on Light Frame suits. If a Scout stacks enough plate to have the HP of a Medium Frame suit, then they should have their speed reduced to that of a Medium Frame suit as well. I specifically like this solution because it only effects brick tanking Scouts, without effecting speed and EWar Scouts. If a Medium frame stacks enough EWAR mods, they should lose HP. That is literally how your logic sounds. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6007	Posted - 2015.01.02 22:47:00 - [87] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I agree with you on that. I like the proposal to have a greater movement penalty on Armor Plate when it is placed on Light Frame suits. If a Scout stacks enough plate to have the HP of a Medium Frame suit, then they should have their speed reduced to that of a Medium Frame suit as well. I specifically like this solution because it only effects brick tanking Scouts, without effecting speed and EWar Scouts. If a Medium frame stacks enough EWAR mods, they should lose HP. That is literally how your logic sounds. They already do that. Every slot filled with an ewar module is one less slot for tanking/damage modules. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6716	Posted - 2015.01.02 22:49:00 - [88] - Quote You happy Ripley? ARE YOU!?!?!?! Now all we have are Sents.... XD Dont believe me? Play PC in the Forge or PUBs in Research lab XD Playing as : Calscout + Amarr Assault
Zindorak Nyain Chan General Tso's Alliance 1478	Posted - 2015.01.02 22:51:00 - [89] - Quote We scouts have suffered enough with these nerfs noooo more Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6007	Posted - 2015.01.02 22:54:00 - [90] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: You happy Ripley? ARE YOU!?!?!?! Now all we have are Sents.... XD Dont believe me? Play PC in the Forge or PUBs in Research lab XD LolPC. Yeah, the research facility sentinel spam is really real. /me draws mass driver. /me stands on nanohive. Alright, let's do this thing. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley

KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6717	Posted - 2015.01.02 23:02:00 - [91] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: You happy Ripley? ARE YOU!?!?!?! Now all we have are Sents.... XD Dont believe me? Play PC in the Forge or PUBs in Research lab XD LolPC. Yeah, the research facility sentinel spam is really real. /me draws mass driver. /me stands on nanohive. Alright, let's do this thing. Sent is hurt. Calls 2 Logis. Thats it for MD Playing as : Calscout + Amarr Assault
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6008	Posted - 2015.01.02 23:07:00 - [92] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Sent is hurt. Calls 2 Logis. Thats it for MD It helps if the entire squad helps me. It's either that or flinging REs at them. And 2 logis? More like 4, because god forbid a proto HMG sentinel die once. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6719	Posted - 2015.01.02 23:30:00 - [93] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Sent is hurt. Calls 2 Logis. Thats it for MD It helps if the entire squad helps me. It's either that or flinging REs at them. And 2 logis? More like 4, because god forbid a proto HMG sentinel die once. I actually noted the, in my case (I mostly a solo player) im always alone. Trying to protect objectives....solo...in a wastelend of dead clones and horrid tears... But if i take out a Sentinel suit 3+ Logis will miraculously appear to rep, feed me, wipe my arse, massage me , drop me ammo, get in the way of bullets after they revive me , etc... And it CAN be done, because 1 Sent with 2 Logis Equals a Dozen Assaults or scouts...At Closer ranges at least. Playing as : Calscout + Amarr Assault
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 667	Posted - 2015.01.02 23:45:00 - [94] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: [quote=Ripley Riley] ...because 1 Sent with 2 Logis Equals a Dozen Assaults or scouts...At Closer ranges at least. "Force Multiplication" S-+L=SoL "At Closer ranges at least" Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1445	Posted - 2015.01.03 00:34:00 - [95] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: "Force Multiplication" Fewer Scouts means fewer counters to Heavy Spam and Heavy+Logi blobs. I'm of the opinion that all forms of EZ Mode should be scrutinized.
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5966	Posted - 2015.01.03 02:29:00 - [96] - Quote My main annoyance with the cloak penalty is that it doesn't care if I just decloaked or not. Even if I'm ABOUT to cloak and change my mind (say, someone pops up), it penalizes me. Some details can be ignored


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Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris

Pokemon master and Tekken Lord

Give me da iskiez

Gk0 Scout yay :)