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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
184
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Posted - 2014.10.27 20:34:00 -
[61] - Quote
Modules and math... The ewar bonuses are effective against other scouts only and are restricted by slots and the mods themselves and therefore have no practical application in respect to our discussion. Unless we had ewar parity.
Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance. - Plato
The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
185
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Posted - 2014.10.27 20:34:00 -
[62] - Quote
Modules and math... The ewar bonuses are effective against other scouts only and are restricted by slots and the mods themselves and therefore have no practical application in respect to our discussion. Unless we had ewar and slot parity.
Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance. - Plato
The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
VP Gaming Alliance
619
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Posted - 2014.10.27 20:38:00 -
[63] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming.
your data is flawed and incomplete. it doesnt account for ewar kills. i abuse the mini map with my cal scout and my survivability and kdr goes through the roof. i dont even use a cloak. ewar in this game was not evenly distributed and balanced among all suit classes. the scouts all have game breaking advantages over all other suits.
you can not fight what you can not see.
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medomai grey
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
1065
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Posted - 2014.10.27 20:49:00 -
[64] - Quote
Sentinels have little if nothing to do with the dominance of scouts in PC.
How to balance cloaks.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
5070
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Posted - 2014.10.27 20:53:00 -
[65] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. your data is flawed and incomplete. it doesnt account for ewar kills. i abuse the mini map with my cal scout and my survivability and kdr goes through the roof. i dont even use a cloak. ewar in this game was not evenly distributed and balanced among all suit classes. the scouts all have game breaking advantages over all other suits. you can not fight what you can not see.
You are assuming Tacnet is the only vision available.
If I had to place a bet on which was more accurate, CCP meta data, or your bias, I would put my money on CCP data.
There is greater balance than ever has been before, and it is getting better still. I don't think you really experienced "game breaking."
No more Sprint Glitch? This party is going to be off the hook!
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Sequal Rise
Les Desanusseurs
132
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Posted - 2014.10.27 22:58:00 -
[66] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Those must be some amazing cloaking changes...  I'm assuming you think that cutting down on the cloaky-NK or shotgun scout kills will help. Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? 
I'd like to know devs answer about that. I know they are working hard to fixes and update, but why are they ALL THE TIME fixing secondary stuffs?!?!? Changing cloak data won't change anything.
Sorry for my bad english.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
5070
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Posted - 2014.10.27 23:04:00 -
[67] - Quote
Sequal Rise wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Those must be some amazing cloaking changes... I'm assuming you think that cutting down on the cloaky-NK or shotgun scout kills will help. Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I'd like to know devs answer about that. I know they are working hard to fixes and update, but why are they ALL THE TIME fixing secondary stuffs?!?!? Changing cloak data won't change anything.
Hotfix out tomorrow with some rifle and bolt pistol balancing changes.
Also, I found a good thread on how to handle scouts HERE.
Its pretty much all you need to know about taking on scouts.
No more Sprint Glitch? This party is going to be off the hook!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2681
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Posted - 2014.10.27 23:56:00 -
[68] - Quote
Other than anecdotal evidence, what reason is there to nerf scouts? I don't understand at all 
If you want game breakingly OP, try active scanner slayer Logis of 1.6 and prior, or the Chromosome Scout, which was actually something to fear.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Sequal Rise
Les Desanusseurs
132
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Posted - 2014.10.27 23:56:00 -
[69] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Sequal Rise wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Those must be some amazing cloaking changes... I'm assuming you think that cutting down on the cloaky-NK or shotgun scout kills will help. Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I'd like to know devs answer about that. I know they are working hard to fixes and update, but why are they ALL THE TIME fixing secondary stuffs?!?!? Changing cloak data won't change anything. Hotfix out tomorrow with some rifle and bolt pistol balancing changes. Also, I found a good thread on how to handle scouts HERE. Its pretty much all you need to know about taking on scouts.
As I said hotfixes are nice to have, they are needed. But as long as the main problem of this game (sh!ttier servers of all times) will not be fixed, hotfixes will not change ANYTHING.
Sorry for my bad english.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9908
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Posted - 2014.10.28 00:19:00 -
[70] - Quote
Sequal Rise wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Sequal Rise wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Those must be some amazing cloaking changes... I'm assuming you think that cutting down on the cloaky-NK or shotgun scout kills will help. Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I'd like to know devs answer about that. I know they are working hard to fixes and update, but why are they ALL THE TIME fixing secondary stuffs?!?!? Changing cloak data won't change anything. Hotfix out tomorrow with some rifle and bolt pistol balancing changes. Also, I found a good thread on how to handle scouts HERE. Its pretty much all you need to know about taking on scouts. As I said hotfixes are nice to have, they are needed. But as long as the main problem of this game (sh!ttier servers of all times) will not be fixed, hotfixes will not change ANYTHING.
Which is why an actual update patch like 1.9 is needed for the major stuff. There are some problems that are too hard coded into the client to be fixed with a hotfix.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
5079
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Posted - 2014.10.28 00:30:00 -
[71] - Quote
Sequal Rise wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Sequal Rise wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Those must be some amazing cloaking changes... I'm assuming you think that cutting down on the cloaky-NK or shotgun scout kills will help. Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I'd like to know devs answer about that. I know they are working hard to fixes and update, but why are they ALL THE TIME fixing secondary stuffs?!?!? Changing cloak data won't change anything. Hotfix out tomorrow with some rifle and bolt pistol balancing changes. Also, I found a good thread on how to handle scouts HERE. Its pretty much all you need to know about taking on scouts. As I said hotfixes are nice to have, they are needed. But as long as the main problem of this game (sh!ttier servers of all times) will not be fixed, hotfixes will not change ANYTHING.
I beg to differ.
If you played 1.8 before Alpha, and play it now, you will notice a difference.
Furthermore, if you played Uprising from 1.0 to 1.8 you will realize that Rattati has done more with the hotfixes than all those other devs did with updates.
No more Sprint Glitch? This party is going to be off the hook!
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Bradric Banewolf
D3ATH CARD
RUST415
429
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Posted - 2014.10.28 01:49:00 -
[72] - Quote
X7 lion wrote:just remember to compartmentalize bs scouts from people who have been doing it since closed beta ;)
Exactly!
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1439
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:10:00 -
[73] - Quote
o/ Riley
Dust Thang market data has been updated:
http://dust.thang.dk/market_historycategory.php
Assault Sales are looking pretty good. What are your thoughts? |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 19:35:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming.
(how about vehicles?)
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5997
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Posted - 2015.01.02 19:47:00 -
[75] - Quote
I was just looking at the market data Vitan. It appears that as of early December the assault dropsuits have overtaken the scouts. The scan falloff, armor plate strafe speed penalty, and cloaking scan radius reduction no doubt effected these numbers.
Personally, I am enjoying seeing so many assaults on the battlefield. Scouts are still deadly, but they are no longer god-mode.
The newest FotM appears to be the MinAssault. I attribute its success to one of the scouts' perks: high strafe speeds. Since Minmatar assault dropsuits typically avoid armor plates in favor of ferroscale or reactives, they are not encumbered by armor and can out strafe most other assaults.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
292
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Posted - 2015.01.02 19:52:00 -
[76] - Quote
Scouts are no longer really scouts though, they are just ambush slayers.
I wish they would figure out a way to make scanning the primary purpose of scouts and make it globally inferior for killing stuff. |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5997
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Posted - 2015.01.02 19:59:00 -
[77] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:I wish they would figure out a way to make scanning the primary purpose of scouts and make it globally inferior for killing stuff. First, we would have to limit the scouts' offensive capabilities. There are several schools of thought on how that should be done; sidearm-only (booooo), light weapon only, remove grenade.
Then we would have to retool the dropsuit command bonuses for scout to provide module efficacy instead of flat bonuses. Hell, make those efficacy bonuses massive, I don't care, but make it so that in order to be good at EWAR you must fit a module. This would deincentivize tanking a scout dropsuit too heavily.
Lastly, make the scout and logi dropsuits the only suits that share passive scan data. Assault, sentinel, and commandos should have to depend on their logibros for near-by scans and their scoutbros for scans at the next objective. Make sense?
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Dreis Shadowweaver
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1111
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:04:00 -
[78] - Quote
X7 lion wrote:just remember to compartmentalize bs scouts from people who have been doing it since closed beta ;)
Where have you been?! I thought you quit!
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
I'm bringing back Contact Nades :P
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Henrietta Unknown
Kaalmayoti Warzone Control
701
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:14:00 -
[79] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:[quote=Vesta Opalus]
Then we would have to retool the dropsuit command bonuses for scout to provide module efficacy instead of flat bonuses. Hell, make those efficacy bonuses massive, I don't care, but make it so that in order to be good at EWAR you must fit a module. This would deincentivize tanking a scout dropsuit too heavily.
Agreed. Just been in a squad of casuals, where it was futile to argue with a guy who'd put only one damp on his gk.0 scout, even though we were entering a competitive FW match with potentially stronger enemy scans. Instead, he tanked it to 500+ armor, and claimed that he'd never been scanned, and had a high survivability rate, so why bother?
Updates should make it so this abusive playstyle is neutered.
Please buff my Magsex. It doesn't hit hard enough...
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Tectonic Fusion
2270
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:17:00 -
[80] - Quote
Henrietta Unknown wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:[quote=Vesta Opalus]
Then we would have to retool the dropsuit command bonuses for scout to provide module efficacy instead of flat bonuses. Hell, make those efficacy bonuses massive, I don't care, but make it so that in order to be good at EWAR you must fit a module. This would deincentivize tanking a scout dropsuit too heavily.
Agreed. Just been in a squad of casuals, where it was futile to argue with a guy who'd put only one damp on his gk.0 scout, even though we were entering a competitive FW match with potentially stronger enemy scans. Instead, he tanked it to 500+ armor, and claimed that he'd never been scanned, and had a high survivability rate, so why bother? Updates should make it so this abusive playstyle is neutered.
Use a dampened assault scrub. They're viable now. 1 complex damp and stack armor and shields.
(GIF)
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Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
294
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:37:00 -
[81] - Quote
Henrietta Unknown wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:[quote=Vesta Opalus]
Then we would have to retool the dropsuit command bonuses for scout to provide module efficacy instead of flat bonuses. Hell, make those efficacy bonuses massive, I don't care, but make it so that in order to be good at EWAR you must fit a module. This would deincentivize tanking a scout dropsuit too heavily.
Agreed. Just been in a squad of casuals, where it was futile to argue with a guy who'd put only one damp on his gk.0 scout, even though we were entering a competitive FW match with potentially stronger enemy scans. Instead, he tanked it to 500+ armor, and claimed that he'd never been scanned, and had a high survivability rate, so why bother? Updates should make it so this abusive playstyle is neutered.
Tanked scout fits have always been a non-problem. They suck pretty bad compared to just running an assault.
The issue was dampened fits with decent scans and a shotgun running roughshod over the rest of the suits due to a huge disparity in intel and damage output. |
Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1441
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:52:00 -
[82] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:
I wish they would figure out a way to make scanning the primary purpose of scouts and make it globally inferior for killing stuff.
Ripley Riley wrote:First, we would have to limit the scouts' offensive capabilities...
I'm as happy as anyone to find the Scout no longer FoTM, but for what reason(s) should detract from its offensive capabilities?
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5999
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:56:00 -
[83] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:I'm as happy as anyone to find the Scout no longer FoTM, but for what reason(s) should we now detract from its offensive capabilities? I was just theorycrafting what would have to be done if CCP wanted to reduce scouts' offensive capabilities. I think they are still too assault-y, but they aren't OP anymore so I'm happy.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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7th Son 7
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
54
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:12:00 -
[84] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Scouts are not getting nerfed as a class, but Cloak as you know is getting nerfed. No matter how many scout threads in GD. It would be good to hear thoughts on sentinels, because I believe the proliferation of scouts in PC is a symptom to sentinel/hmg spam, and pretty much RE or shotgun is the only hard counter. Assaults are coming back slowly into PC though. Quoted from this thread found in the barbershop. I was really surprised to hear this coming from Rattati. Scouts are currently leading market sales while sentinels sit just below assault and logistic sales*. The idea that so many scouts are being deployed to counter sentinels is chuckle worthy. If Rattati were to release the data relating to K/D by dropsuit I'm sure we would see scouts leading the charge there too**. Scouts are ruling Dust 514 with a tiny cloaked fist; ranking by K/D, the top positions in all of my public contracts here lately are being occupied by scouts. Players are speccing into scout dropsuits purely to remain competitive, not because it is a playstyle they enjoy. I don't think I have to tell you that is awful, terrible game design. Please CCP, explain why this behavior is allowed to continue. If I am missing some data here, and that data explains everything, just tell me. *: Dust Thang. Wish I had a more up to date snapshot of market data, but I'm working with the tools available to me here. **: If I am wrong then give us some insight into that data; public contract, FW, and PC.
+1 for you sir |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3287
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:18:00 -
[85] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:I'm as happy as anyone to find the Scout no longer FoTM, but for what reason(s) should we now detract from its offensive capabilities? I was just theorycrafting what would have to be done if CCP wanted to reduce scouts' offensive capabilities. I think they are still too assault-y, but they aren't OP anymore so I'm happy.
Its kinda sad that the only viable weapons to use on scouts anymore are rifles...
Particularly the BrAR
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1448
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:19:00 -
[86] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Ripley Riley wrote: Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I agree with you on that. I like the proposal to have a greater movement penalty on Armor Plate when it is placed on Light Frame suits. If a Scout stacks enough plate to have the HP of a Medium Frame suit, then they should have their speed reduced to that of a Medium Frame suit as well. I specifically like this solution because it only effects brick tanking Scouts, without effecting speed and EWar Scouts.
If a Medium frame stacks enough EWAR mods, they should lose HP. That is literally how your logic sounds.
Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6007
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:47:00 -
[87] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Ripley Riley wrote: Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I agree with you on that. I like the proposal to have a greater movement penalty on Armor Plate when it is placed on Light Frame suits. If a Scout stacks enough plate to have the HP of a Medium Frame suit, then they should have their speed reduced to that of a Medium Frame suit as well. I specifically like this solution because it only effects brick tanking Scouts, without effecting speed and EWar Scouts. If a Medium frame stacks enough EWAR mods, they should lose HP. That is literally how your logic sounds. They already do that. Every slot filled with an ewar module is one less slot for tanking/damage modules.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
6716
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:49:00 -
[88] - Quote
You happy Ripley?
ARE YOU!?!?!?!
Now all we have are Sents.... XD
Dont believe me? Play PC in the Forge or PUBs in Research lab XD
Playing as : Calscout + Amarr Assault
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Zindorak
Nyain Chan
General Tso's Alliance
1478
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:51:00 -
[89] - Quote
We scouts have suffered enough with these nerfs noooo more
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Give me da iskiez
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6007
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:54:00 -
[90] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:You happy Ripley?
ARE YOU!?!?!?! Now all we have are Sents.... XD
Dont believe me? Play PC in the Forge or PUBs in Research lab XD LolPC. Yeah, the research facility sentinel spam is really real.
/me draws mass driver.
/me stands on nanohive.
Alright, let's do this thing.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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