DUST Search - CCP, scout spawn is acceptable

Mobius Kaethis wrote:

Blueprint For Murder wrote:

Maken tosh any change to ewar unless resulting in parity would be a fictitious change to balance. Even if a change resulted in parity it would still leave more to be desired because ewar has no effect at ranges of strife scouts and isn't needed by armored shotgun scouts. Furthermore it would result in nerfing scouts that actually play the role of scout.

I totally disagree. At this point scouts who are not using e-war modules still have their passive ewar benefits, which in the case of all the scouts save the Min (which has no e-war bonus) gives them a distinct advantage on the battle field.

Think about it this way. My adv Cal scout has 600hp and zero e-war modules beyond a basic cloak. Currently still get a 25% bonus to my scan radius as well as 15% dampening bonus. This gives me a huge advantage on the battlefield both in terms of being able to choose targets as well as avoid those I can't take on. All of this adds up to a massive boost to my killing power and my survivability. Changing the bonuses to be dependent upon me putting e-war modules on the suit would force me to reduce my tank to get that same level of survivability.

Making the suit skill a bonus to modules makes far more sense than removing the light weapon slot which is simply a knee-jerk reaction and would be more appropriately affective.

All of that being said I would really like to see a total re-write of the ewar system as it is too binary in its current state. E-war is by far the largest unbalancing factor with regards to scouts.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9899	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:22:00 - [1] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Jack cloak is what injected the issues into the light armor class. The light armor class itself is balanced and this is the reason they are so resistant to changing it, but sadly it looks like they will nerf the cloak so only the cheapest play styles will benefit from it before they are willing to make a proper change... everyone knows scouts should be side arms only, but many covet pseudo skill and because of this the don't nerf me bro is very strong on these forums. FOT6M scouts. You don't speak for me. You speak only for yourself. Therefore you can't claim that everyone knows scouts should be sidearms only. I know that scouts DON'T need to be sidearm only. As I said before, I would rather much see scouts have 1 light slight to accommodate one of two weapon classes per fit (light or sidearm) rather than see a sidearm-only restriction. But as I also said before, I don't like that idea either and I would rather see scouts keep both of their slots. The problem here is not that the slot availability is making the scouts too good. It's other things. As CCP Rattati pointed out in the Barborshop thread in detail, he is looking to see if turning the passive bonuses of the EWAR into efficacy bonuses would work. What this would mean is that instead of stacking armor/shield and everything on the scout while still benefiting from EWAR passively without any of the related modules, you would be forced to have to fit the related EWAR mods in order to benefit from the EWAR itself. Therefore a Gallente Scout and an Amarr Scout (examples) would have to give up their tanking modules and start fitting profile dampeners if they want to hide from scans. They also won't be able to fit damage mods without giving up too much of their precision effectiveness. To me, this is a better trade off and is a far better alternative than just restricting scouts to sidearms only especially since players like me can already wreck people without a light weapon anyways using only Ishukone Nova Knives which apparently can do a FAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRR better job of killing any suit than a shotgun can primarily because of their OHK advantage. A pair of Ishukone Nova Knives can OHK a tanked up Sentinel or Commando and are now able to severely deal damage to a tank if done right. In fact, I have killed a couple of Tanks and an LAV since it's implementation. I have even killed a Dropship with these knives. I'm surprised that after two years no one has called these knives OP. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9901	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:40:00 - [2] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: The point is, I'm currently on the edge of just not bothering with the cloak and going full tank mode. Is that 0.33 delay enough to put you over the edge? If so, do you think that a significant number of cloak users will feel the same way? Will it be just enough to get rid of the FotM scouts? (Tune in 3 weeks to find out!) Probably not. Honestly, 0.33 second is not going to affect me at all. It takes only 0.6 second to fully charge up my Ishukone Nova Nova Knives. Of course, that would mean I would have to wait 0.93 second for a complete charge up under the new delay but 1 second is all I need anyways. All I would have to do is decloak from a distance so they can't hear the decloak noise, get behind one of the redberries and then quietly stab them. It would be more than a second by the time I get into position anyways after decloaking. Besides, I've been revisiting my Old School ways of running around without the cloak and so far I am able to scare a lot of people even on maps like Manus Peaks. Even after the nerf to cloak, I will continue to run with a no-tank scout fitted only with Kin Cats and Damage mods. ;) On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9901	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:44:00 - [3] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Maken tosh any change to ewar unless resulting in parity would be a fictitious change to balance. Even if a change resulted in parity it would still leave more to be desired because ewar has no effect at ranges of strife scouts and isn't needed by armored shotgun scouts. Regardless, restricting scouts to sidearm-only is not a good idea. You are still not considering the snipers who may have already deeply invested into the scout suit for their sniper weapon. What you are suggesting is effectively forcing these players into a weapon class which none of them wanted to specialize into anyways. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9902	Posted - 2014.10.27 19:57:00 - [4] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: An effective and positive change to the game and balance should be held a bay because some will be upset that they have invested to much sp into them?.... You are playing the same game I am right? Edit: the reason I did not quote was I was trying to avoid derailing the thread and was hoping for a sub dialog between he and I. plz carry on Yes, I am playing the same game. To borrow an old saying... "We all read the Bible day and night, But you read black where I read white." On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9902	Posted - 2014.10.27 20:00:00 - [5] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Maken tosh any change to ewar unless resulting in parity would be a fictitious change to balance. Even if a change resulted in parity it would still leave more to be desired because ewar has no effect at ranges of strife scouts and isn't needed by armored shotgun scouts. Furthermore it would result in nerfing scouts that actually play the role of scout. I totally disagree. At this point scouts who are not using e-war modules still have their passive ewar benefits, which in the case of all the scouts save the Min (which has no e-war bonus) gives them a distinct advantage on the battle field. Think about it this way. My adv Cal scout has 600hp and zero e-war modules beyond a basic cloak. Currently still get a 25% bonus to my scan radius as well as 15% dampening bonus. This gives me a huge advantage on the battlefield both in terms of being able to choose targets as well as avoid those I can't take on. All of this adds up to a massive boost to my killing power and my survivability. Changing the bonuses to be dependent upon me putting e-war modules on the suit would force me to reduce my tank to get that same level of survivability. Making the suit skill a bonus to modules makes far more sense than removing the light weapon slot which is simply a knee-jerk reaction and would be more appropriately affective. All of that being said I would really like to see a total re-write of the ewar system as it is too binary in its current state. E-war is by far the largest unbalancing factor with regards to scouts. This is exactly the kind of point I've been trying to convey. But apparently some people don't get it. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9908	Posted - 2014.10.28 00:19:00 - [6] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We'll see what happens with cloak changes. Data is coming. Those must be some amazing cloaking changes... I'm assuming you think that cutting down on the cloaky-NK or shotgun scout kills will help. Maybe your data shows otherwise, but I'm being killed by strafe scouts with RR, CR, or bolt pistols more often than cloaked scouts. How will adjusting the cloak help prevent the assault-strafe scouts? I'd like to know devs answer about that. I know they are working hard to fixes and update, but why are they ALL THE TIME fixing secondary stuffs?!?!? Changing cloak data won't change anything. Hotfix out tomorrow with some rifle and bolt pistol balancing changes. Also, I found a good thread on how to handle scouts HERE. Its pretty much all you need to know about taking on scouts. As I said hotfixes are nice to have, they are needed. But as long as the main problem of this game (sh!ttier servers of all times) will not be fixed, hotfixes will not change ANYTHING. Which is why an actual update patch like 1.9 is needed for the major stuff. There are some problems that are too hard coded into the client to be fixed with a hotfix. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.