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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8988	Posted - 2014.10.22 02:19:00 - [1] - Quote Dear players we have been discussing this topic on and off for quite a while, especially concerning shield tanking, and the inherent need to always use a low slot to have "any" armor reps, which is bad for shield tanking, and quite hampering for racial fitting styles. We are not proposing this, but would like to get your opinions on the general idea that we have been formulating (particularly with CPM Logi and Commando threads), and it ties well into empowering Logis and Commandos on top. Without further ado: Gallente (Current Gal Value) - Armor Rep kings Commando 4 (1.00) Logi 3.5 (2.00) Sentinel 3.0 (1.00) Assault 3.5 (2.00) Scout 2.0 (3.00) - (GA Scout is very strong right now) Minmatar - Hit and run, hybrid armor and regen Commando 3.5 Logi 3.0 Sentinel 2.5 Assault 2.0 Scout 1.5 Amarr - slowly returning to high base ehp Commando 3.0 Logi 2.5 Sentinel 2.0 Assault 1.5 Scout 1.0 Caldari - shield tankers ("gain" a low slot) Commando 2.5 Logi 2 Sentinel 1.5 Assault 1 Scout 0.5 "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Silver Strike44 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 175	Posted - 2014.10.22 02:26:00 - [2] - Quote First Me: Donate to The Rammeh McRam House Charity. Scrub: What's the cause? Rammeh: I'm retarded.
Ashley Swift New Age Empire. 11	Posted - 2014.10.22 02:28:00 - [3] - Quote Mom Now that you're close I feel like coming undone
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4004	Posted - 2014.10.22 02:30:00 - [4] - Quote Yes, please My advice to you, playa...
Dremel wp Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn 39	Posted - 2014.10.22 02:31:00 - [5] - Quote +1 for putting commando and logi on top. Gallente looks strong, but if all suits are getting this it may be relative. I'm afraid of tanked gallente with stand off weapons with this iteration. Caldari numbers look good. Minmatar hybrid tank/flexibility will be interesting. I think this really opens up the utility of Minmatar suits. There will be no 'bad' module to put on a minnie suit.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3219	Posted - 2014.10.22 02:37:00 - [6] - Quote Gal rep should be slightly higher. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2409	Posted - 2014.10.22 02:40:00 - [7] - Quote I brought up the idea of universal passive armor reps in my NPE thread. I think it would significantly improve the NPE. And it really does make sense for all suits. As long as built-in reps were very low (like what you've posted) I really don't see a problem. It would really allow for more freedom/creativity in fitting suits. Even 1hp passive reps would be a big improvment. Best PvE idea ever!
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4922	Posted - 2014.10.22 02:41:00 - [8] - Quote I guess my view of roles would be that Heavies had more innate shields/armor, to withstand some damage, but that they should have LESS regen than an Assault, who would be more cover based. What is the rationale for giving sentinals more regen than Assaults while at the same time giving them higher HP? You can always tell a Millford Minja

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8990	Posted - 2014.10.22 02:46:00 - [9] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: I guess my view of roles would be that Heavies had more innate shields/armor, to withstand some damage, but that they should have LESS regen than an Assault, who would be more cover based. What is the rationale for giving sentinals more regen than Assaults while at the same time giving them higher HP? Something I thought of as I pasted this, Assault should be over Sents, for fast recovery. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3219	Posted - 2014.10.22 02:48:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: One Eyed King wrote: I guess my view of roles would be that Heavies had more innate shields/armor, to withstand some damage, but that they should have LESS regen than an Assault, who would be more cover based. What is the rationale for giving sentinals more regen than Assaults while at the same time giving them higher HP? Something I thought of as I pasted this, Assault should be over Sents, for fast recovery. I personally find this more preferable Gallente (Current Gal Value) - Armor Rep kings Commando 4.5 (1.00) Logi 5.0 (2.00) Sentinel 4.0 (1.00) Assault 5.0 (2.00) Scout 3.0 (3.00) - (GA Scout is very strong right now) [armor rep isn't what makes Scout powerful] Minmatar - Hit and run, hybrid armor and regen Commando 2.5 Logi 3.0 Sentinel 2.0 Assault 3.0 Scout 1.5 Amarr - slowly returning to high base ehp Commando 2.0 Logi 2.0 Sentinel 1.5 Assault 2.0 Scout 1.0 Caldari - shield tankers ("gain" a low slot) Commando 1.5 Logi 1.5 Sentinel 1.0 Assault 1.5 Scout 0.5 supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13730	Posted - 2014.10.22 02:49:00 - [11] - Quote I'm confused as to why armour suits need this at all. There is no reason to have natural passive armour reps as well. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3387	Posted - 2014.10.22 02:52:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: One Eyed King wrote: I guess my view of roles would be that Heavies had more innate shields/armor, to withstand some damage, but that they should have LESS regen than an Assault, who would be more cover based. What is the rationale for giving sentinals more regen than Assaults while at the same time giving them higher HP? Something I thought of as I pasted this, Assault should be over Sents, for fast recovery. +1 to this, and the overall concept 0.02 ISK Cross PS ~ Agreed with Vell0cet that having mild reps like these could help improve the NPE See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2630	Posted - 2014.10.22 02:53:00 - [13] - Quote +1 Armor rep on all suits is a must, unless you take away shield regen on gallente and ammarr suits, which is stupid. The order for regen logically should be Assault, Scout, Logi, Commando, Sentinel. Though having commando have highest innate is actually smarter, as they have the fewest slots, and allows them to forgo a single slot if they so desire. Going off this logic, the armor repair from high to low should be Commando, Sentinel, Scout, Assault/Logi. This would be good, but doesn't make sense balance wise, so it should go Commando, Assault, Logi/Scout, Sentinel. Race wise, Amarr and Caldari should both have equally terrible repair, Minmitar should be just behind Gallente (like 1-1.5 hp/s behind), while Gallente will continue to be amaze balls. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 903	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:06:00 - [14] - Quote My only reservation with this as a Pure Caldari player is that giving any kind of armor regen WILL most likely make dual-tanking more attractive on Caldari suits again. Most cals I know, and myself included will still put a reactive plate in what we consider our 'utility' low slot as you've pointed out. Adding a native regen would just make me swap that out for a regular plate at this point. Perhaps more tweaking on actual shield numbers for the Caldari and nixing a native regen for them. idk, thats a quick convoluted thought I'm having just now. Give me ammo types or give me burst RRs! Death is irrelevant.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3390	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:09:00 - [15] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: My only reservation with this as a Pure Caldari player is that giving any kind of armor regen WILL most likely make dual-tanking more attractive on Caldari suits again. Most cals I know, and myself included will still put a reactive plate in what we consider our 'utility' low slot as you've pointed out. Adding a native regen would just make me swap that out for a regular plate at this point. Perhaps more tweaking on actual shield numbers for the Caldari and nixing a native regen for them. idk, thats a quick convoluted thought I'm having just now. Curious as to your primary role, just for contexts sake See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 904	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:11:00 - [16] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: My only reservation with this as a Pure Caldari player is that giving any kind of armor regen WILL most likely make dual-tanking more attractive on Caldari suits again. Most cals I know, and myself included will still put a reactive plate in what we consider our 'utility' low slot as you've pointed out. Adding a native regen would just make me swap that out for a regular plate at this point. Perhaps more tweaking on actual shield numbers for the Caldari and nixing a native regen for them. idk, thats a quick convoluted thought I'm having just now. Curious as to your primary role, just for contexts sake Cal-ass, as well as Suicidal FG AV, and intermittent logi (would love the native for this, but meh, continuity!) then random calmando sniper and terrible scout. Give me ammo types or give me burst RRs! Death is irrelevant.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3390	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:13:00 - [17] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: My only reservation with this as a Pure Caldari player is that giving any kind of armor regen WILL most likely make dual-tanking more attractive on Caldari suits again. Most cals I know, and myself included will still put a reactive plate in what we consider our 'utility' low slot as you've pointed out. Adding a native regen would just make me swap that out for a regular plate at this point. Perhaps more tweaking on actual shield numbers for the Caldari and nixing a native regen for them. idk, thats a quick convoluted thought I'm having just now. Curious as to your primary role, just for contexts sake Cal-ass, as well as Suicidal FG AV, and intermittent logi (would love the native for this, but meh, continuity!) then random calmando sniper and terrible scout. When you say you play Caldari you really mean it thanks for the added info o7 See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 836	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:13:00 - [18] - Quote This would be a buff to the usability of ALL suits, and a great thing for all players, newbie and veteran alike. In particular it rewards the players who are good at not dying. I don't think there's any legitimate reason to object to this change. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Mister Goo Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 33	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:18:00 - [19] - Quote Yes Rattati I think you have a very good Idea, and I think your numbers are good also. Closed Beta Vet Minmatar Logistics I Repair, Revive, and Replenish. Leave the slaying for Assaults and Heavies.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1424	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:18:00 - [20] - Quote I think that anything higher than 3 or 3.5 runs the risk of being too powerful - If we look back to the old logi bonus of +1 armor rep per level, it got to the point where level 5 logis did not fit any armor repair modules to their suit. I think suits having between 1-3 rep on them is fine, but anything higher (and in some cases even 3 is excessive) runs the risk of people going "Nah, I don't need armor reps". Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 313	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:18:00 - [21] - Quote I like this idea a lot. Especially for the commando and assault suits. As a minmatar hit and run fighter, this would mean for minmatar suits you could fit shield extenders and a kincat and still have internal reps for your armor buffer especially for the two low-slot basic assault suits. Commando suits especially need some regen help because they are the suppression fighter so they need to the regen rate to make up for their hit-box size and lower health pool to their sentinel cousins. The initial numbers are good. Gallente should be armor rep kings while minmatar being regen hybrid tankers should have the second highest. (Remember min have lowest tanks so regen is the balancing factor) Amarr suits have enough lows to where they could fit reppers but they should be massive tank buffer Caldari would have the lowest as they shouldn't really be armor tanking, very little if at all. 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
hfderrtgvcd 950	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:24:00 - [22] - Quote this just encourages dual tanking and brick tanking more. I already see amarr and gallente assaults with 800+ armor and triage hives, this will just make it worse. At most you should be giving 1-2 hp/s to cal and min so they don't need to fit armor repairers. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
voidfaction Nos Nothi 605	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:29:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players we have been discussing this topic on and off for quite a while, especially concerning shield tanking, and the inherent need to always use a low slot to have "any" armor reps, which is bad for shield tanking, and quite hampering for racial fitting styles. We are not proposing this, but would like to get your opinions on the general idea that we have been formulating (particularly with CPM Logi and Commando threads), and it ties well into empowering Logis and Commandos on top. Without further ado: Gallente (Current Gal Value) - Armor Rep kings Commando 4 (1.00) Logi 3.5 (2.00) Sentinel 3.0 (1.00) Assault 3.5 (2.00) Scout 2.0 (3.00) - (GA Scout is very strong right now) Minmatar - Hit and run, hybrid armor and regen Commando 3.5 Logi 3.0 Sentinel 2.5 Assault 2.0 Scout 1.5 Amarr - slowly returning to high base ehp Commando 3.0 Logi 2.5 Sentinel 2.0 Assault 1.5 Scout 1.0 Caldari - shield tankers ("gain" a low slot) Commando 2.5 Logi 2 Sentinel 1.5 Assault 1 Scout 0.5 Ok so you want the roles more likely to be near other players or logi to have high armor repair but the scouts that are usually out in the wild solo to have the least. makes perfect sense. Can you make it so you can use a repair tool on yourself and a single logi can have at least 10 hives out at a time too. Just my thoughts as Scouts should be high regen low armor but for some reason instead of fixing the armor tank scouts you fix everything else but the problem.
Omega Black Zero Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 126	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:29:00 - [24] - Quote What about Frames?
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2411	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:31:00 - [25] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: My only reservation with this as a Pure Caldari player is that giving any kind of armor regen WILL most likely make dual-tanking more attractive on Caldari suits again. Most cals I know, and myself included will still put a reactive plate in what we consider our 'utility' low slot as you've pointed out. Adding a native regen would just make me swap that out for a regular plate at this point. Perhaps more tweaking on actual shield numbers for the Caldari and nixing a native regen for them. idk, thats a quick convoluted thought I'm having just now. I'd like to see assault suits become decent at Ewar (not as good as scouts of course). Right now, the main choices for assault fits are just tanking mods. If there was an actual benefit to fitting Ewar then you'd have more flexibility for creative choices, especially if you didn't feel obligated to fit an armor rep. Best PvE idea ever!
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3392	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:38:00 - [26] - Quote Omega Black Zero wrote: What about Frames? A fair question. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3393	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:47:00 - [27] - Quote A few quick points of context since I was neck deep in Logistics at the time you reference below. MINA Longstrike wrote: I think that anything higher than 3 or 3.5 runs the risk of being too powerful - If we look back to the old logi bonus of +1 armor rep per level, it got to the point where level 5 logis did not fit any armor repair modules to their suit. Some Logis at level 5 did not fit reppers, many still did. Further at the time base rep value of the armor repair mods was lower across the boards to the contextual value of 1.00 HP/s then was much higher than it is now. MINA Longstrike wrote: I think suits having between 1-3 rep on them is fine, but anything higher (and in some cases even 3 is excessive) runs the risk of people going "Nah, I don't need armor reps". In some cases - I'm looking at you Caldari (as one example) - a player saying "Nah, I don't need armor reps" is actually not a bad thing. And I say this as a support player who's potential match earnings will be cut by having more suits with self sustaining levels of armor reps on board. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3264	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:50:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: One Eyed King wrote: I guess my view of roles would be that Heavies had more innate shields/armor, to withstand some damage, but that they should have LESS regen than an Assault, who would be more cover based. What is the rationale for giving sentinals more regen than Assaults while at the same time giving them higher HP? Something I thought of as I pasted this, Assault should be over Sents, for fast recovery. % of total HP repped per second is higher for Assaults than it is for Sentinels, even if Sentinel absolute rep rate is the same. 2 HP per second means a lot more to an Assault than 2.5 means to a Sentinel. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
SponkSponkSponk WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1083	Posted - 2014.10.22 03:53:00 - [29] - Quote Given what Rattati said about assaults vs sentinels, and rationalising the numbers to make things more standardised, I propose these updated numbers: Gallente: 3.5 HP/s for medium frames 2.0 hp/s for everything else Minmatar: 3.0 HP/s for medium frames 1.5 hp/s for everything else Amarr: 2.5 HP/s for medium frames 1.0 hp/s for everything else Caldari: 3 HP/s for medium frames 0.5 hp/s for everything else I know it's a bit lower than what Rattati has, but I'm also cognisant that too high a base repair amount obsoletes armour repairers and reactive plates. Dust/Eve transfers
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8060	Posted - 2014.10.22 04:05:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players we have been discussing this topic on and off for quite a while, especially concerning shield tanking, and the inherent need to always use a low slot to have "any" armor reps, which is bad for shield tanking, and quite hampering for racial fitting styles. We are not proposing this, but would like to get your opinions on the general idea that we have been formulating (particularly with CPM Logi and Commando threads), and it ties well into empowering Logis and Commandos on top. Without further ado: Gallente (Current Gal Value) - Armor Rep kings Commando 4 (1.00) Logi 3.5 (2.00) Sentinel 3.0 (1.00) Assault 3.5 (2.00) Scout 2.0 (3.00) - (GA Scout is very strong right now) Minmatar - Hit and run, hybrid armor and regen Commando 3.5 Logi 3.0 Sentinel 2.5 Assault 2.0 Scout 1.5 Amarr - slowly returning to high base ehp Commando 3.0 Logi 2.5 Sentinel 2.0 Assault 1.5 Scout 1.0 Caldari - shield tankers ("gain" a low slot) Commando 2.5 Logi 2 Sentinel 1.5 Assault 1 Scout 0.5 I am liking what I'm seeing here which is an accomplishment because it takes a bit to impress me. I do have something to pick at though, some of which has already been addressed: -The Amarr and Caldari Sentinels shouldn't have more than their Assault counterparts because they are the two HP tank races. I'm fine with where Gallente and Minmatar Sentinels are. Minmatar is especially fine because their heavies are Hybrid tankers anyway and being an odd ball in general but that's the beauty of Minmatar. -A previous person suggested a overall 1.5 more hp/s for Gallente but that's a bit much. If anything at the most give them .5 more hp/s if we even need that but I see where he's coming from. As far as everything else is concerned this list is Sgt Kirk Approved. Hopefully this will bring out Caldari suits that actually fit their suits like they should. I'd love to see some diversity. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.



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