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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13730
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Posted - 2014.10.22 02:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm confused as to why armour suits need this at all.
There is no reason to have natural passive armour reps as well.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13745
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Posted - 2014.10.22 22:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Here's the biggest reason why we shouldn't do this: it makes absolutely no sense in terms of the already established design in dust and eve online.
Shields have native regen. Not armor.
You change this and shields go from low HP with free passive regen to simply low HP, and regen that can be interrupted vs high HP armor with free constant armor reps.
When you look at it like that, armor tanking is the more attractive choice. I would agree with you if it were possible to properly pure tank in Dust, but you can't. Shields come back much more quickly in Dust than they do in EVE, so an armor tank can still expect his shields to provide a reliable buffer much of the time. It isn't like EVE where it's going to take 5-10 minutes for your shields to come back 100% after depletion. This means that an armor tanker will continually use both his shields and armor as a primary means of defense, even if the slots favor the armor more. Conversely, shield tankers are expected to rely entirely on their shields, despite armor tanks enjoying an extremely high shield recharge rate, despite the fact that they're armor tanks? All suits in varying degrees will hybrid tank and make use of both shields and armor in the long run, and as such with the way the game is set up, it makes sense that all suits have some limited form of self armor reps. Now if you advocated for dropping shield regen on armor tanks to like 5HP/s, then you might have an argument.
That's primarily because the recharging of Shield and Armour is the wrong way around.
Shields Constantly regenerate at a slow pace. (But can pulse when actively Recharged)
Armour Pulse's up intermittently (as a general rule of thumb)
Why is it not possible to extend armour suit shield recharge times as well as reduce per pulse values?
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13746
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Posted - 2014.10.22 22:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:True Adamance wrote:
Why is it not possible to extend armour suit shield recharge times as well as reduce per pulse values?
Forgive me if I'm misreading, but are you essentially saying to reduce recharge rate of shields on armor suits?
Fundamentally I guess. I'd prefer to feel more reliant on my armour as my primary HP buffer than the shield.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13757
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Posted - 2014.10.23 01:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:
Gallente Assault Shield stats:
Shield Recharge Rate: 20 hp/s
Shield Recharge Delay: 7 seconds
Shield Depleted Recharge delay: 10 seconds
Amarr Assault Shield stats:
Shield Recharge Rate: 20 hp/s
Shield Recharge Delay: 7 seconds
Shield Depleted Recharge delay: 10 seconds
Caldari Assault Shield Stats:
Shield Recharge Rate: 30 hp/s
Shield Recharge Delay: 5 seconds
Shield Depleted Recharge delay: 6 seconds
Rather than needing passive armour reps we should be looking at reducing the shield rep efficiency of our suits.
I'm all for the Gallente to be top tier rep brawlers but just handing you passive reps equivalent to one extra advanced or prototype module is not the way to do it. If the assault needs a bonus you are starting at the answer.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13759
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Posted - 2014.10.23 02:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:
Gallente Assault Shield stats:
Shield Recharge Rate: 20 hp/s
Shield Recharge Delay: 7 seconds
Shield Depleted Recharge delay: 10 seconds
Amarr Assault Shield stats:
Shield Recharge Rate: 20 hp/s
Shield Recharge Delay: 7 seconds
Shield Depleted Recharge delay: 10 seconds
Caldari Assault Shield Stats:
Shield Recharge Rate: 30 hp/s
Shield Recharge Delay: 5 seconds
Shield Depleted Recharge delay: 6 seconds
Rather than needing passive armour reps we should be looking at reducing the shield rep efficiency of our suits. I'm all for the Gallente to be top tier rep brawlers but just handing you passive reps equivalent to one extra advanced or prototype module is not the way to do it. If the assault needs a bonus you are starting at the answer. I'd like it if the suits had an armor repair modifier rate.
Yeah that's a cool idea, a statistic that modifies the values of each repper stacked on the suit.
E.G-
Amarr = 1.0
Gallente = 1.15
So if a Complex Armour repair units repaired 10 Armour per second. Amarr recieved their standard values, while Gallente rep at 11.5 per repair unit they have stacked.
Amarr 2x Complex Repair Units = 2*10 reps per second - stacking penalties
Gallente 2xComplex Repair Units = 2* 11.5 reps per second - stacking penalties.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13768
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Posted - 2014.10.23 03:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:
Gallente Assault Shield stats:
Shield Recharge Rate: 20 hp/s
Shield Recharge Delay: 7 seconds
Shield Depleted Recharge delay: 10 seconds
Amarr Assault Shield stats:
Shield Recharge Rate: 20 hp/s
Shield Recharge Delay: 7 seconds
Shield Depleted Recharge delay: 10 seconds
Caldari Assault Shield Stats:
Shield Recharge Rate: 30 hp/s
Shield Recharge Delay: 5 seconds
Shield Depleted Recharge delay: 6 seconds
Rather than needing passive armour reps we should be looking at reducing the shield rep efficiency of our suits. I'm all for the Gallente to be top tier rep brawlers but just handing you passive reps equivalent to one extra advanced or prototype module is not the way to do it. If the assault needs a bonus you are starting at the answer. I'd like it if the suits had an armor repair modifier rate. Yeah that's a cool idea, a statistic that modifies the values of each repper stacked on the suit. E.G- Amarr = 1.0 Gallente = 1.15 So if a Complex Armour repair units repaired 10 Armour per second. Amarr recieved their standard values, while Gallente rep at 11.5 per repair unit they have stacked. Amarr 2x Complex Repair Units = 2*10 reps per second - stacking penalties Gallente 2xComplex Repair Units = 2* 11.5 reps per second - stacking penalties. That's just module efficacy, and I am very interested in pursuing that, but right now, focused on smaller changes. Switching to efficacy is a widespread and fine-detail change.
Fair enough. But I do not understand how it is justified to improve armour tanking significantly by giving us a natural regenerative property, and more over buff a both races of armour tankers by essentially giving a number of their dropsuits the equivalent of an additional module.
I personally however am simply against passive repairs of any kind for any race, especially the Amarr (and by extension the Gallente) since it is just a pure buff to my armour reps.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13814
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Posted - 2014.10.24 03:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Shield Regulators
Ferroscale Plates
Reactive Plates
Cardiac Regulators
Kinetic Catalyzers
Myrofibral Stimulants
Profile Dampeners
Range Enhancers
CPU Upgrades
PG Upgrades
There's a lot list of things you can put in the low-slots when you run Shield Tanking. Your argument is more for 'I want to use more of my utility slots for utility' than 'I want to stack nothing but shield regulators in my lows' because we all know that that's not what is going to happen, not with the extreme amount of fitting costs it would require - even on high end suits. I can see your point clearly, I just don't think it's as much of an issue as people are making it out to be. My opinion wouldn't change even if half of the modules listed above were somehow switched over to high-slots.
That being said, what about Armor Tanking? Shield tankers can fit CPU/PG upgrades in their lows if they need it - but I can't. Do I get a free CPU/PG boost to accommodate my tanking style? Do you have modules that cost 90cpu to fit?
Simple answer?
Reduce fitting costs.
Not institute native armour reps.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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