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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14719
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Posted - 2014.10.19 16:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man?
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Atiim
13064
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Posted - 2014.10.19 16:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
*Killing People
*High-Speed Transport
*Anti-Python (Incubus)
*Kamikaze (Incubus vs Python)
They've still got their uses.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14719
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Posted - 2014.10.19 16:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Atiim wrote:*Killing People
*High-Speed Transport
*Anti-Python (Incubus)
*Kamikaze (Incubus vs Python)
They've still got their uses.
*sigh*
Some things never change. So, you're telling me they're incredibly expensive wastes of air space. Rails were changed to anti armor, and a 15% rof boost is neglible at best, so no, incubus is no longer "anti python", and...did you seriously just suggest using ADS for suicide ships?
This is EXACTLY why the one fun part of the game was thoroughly butchered during my absence
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Atiim
13065
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Posted - 2014.10.19 16:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Atiim wrote:*Killing People
*High-Speed Transport
*Anti-Python (Incubus)
*Kamikaze (Incubus vs Python)
They've still got their uses. *sigh* Some things never change. So, you're telling me they're incredibly expensive wastes of air space. Rails were changed to anti armor, and a 15% rof boost is neglible at best, so no, incubus is no longer "anti python", and...did you seriously just suggest using ADS for suicide ships? This is EXACTLY why the one fun part of the game was thoroughly butchered during my absence
Obviously the last part was a joke, but I've still managed to take out a few Pythons with a Rail provided that they don't slam their Afterburners on. But yes, I do think 20GJ Rails could use a damage buff.
They're only wastes of air space if you don't use them properly, they can still kill players and they can easily pick up a few players faster than anything else in this game.
Perhaps you're just to used to being able to kill things by merely looking at them?
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14719
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Posted - 2014.10.19 16:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Atiim wrote:*Killing People
*High-Speed Transport
*Anti-Python (Incubus)
*Kamikaze (Incubus vs Python)
They've still got their uses. *sigh* Some things never change. So, you're telling me they're incredibly expensive wastes of air space. Rails were changed to anti armor, and a 15% rof boost is neglible at best, so no, incubus is no longer "anti python", and...did you seriously just suggest using ADS for suicide ships? This is EXACTLY why the one fun part of the game was thoroughly butchered during my absence Obviously the last part was a joke, but I've still managed to take out a few Pythons with a Rail provided that they don't slam their Afterburners on. But yes, I do think 20GJ Rails could use a damage buff. However, ADSs are still very capable of killing people.
Pretty sure a full BPO scout is better at killing people lol
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Atiim
13065
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Posted - 2014.10.19 16:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:
Pretty sure a full BPO scout is better at killing people lol
Depends on the map.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Denchlad 7
Dead Man's Game
774
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Posted - 2014.10.19 17:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dust Fiend? Hes alive?
Jesus that was a long hibernation lol. But OT, theyre nowhere near as good as they used to be, but still good if used situationally, rather than all the time like I used to.
As Atiim said, a light rail buff would be more than welcome.
The Connoisseur of Weapons. 19/19 L5 P1.
66-3 with Dual-Miltia Bolt Pistols. OP? OP.
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14719
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Posted - 2014.10.19 17:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
Denchlad 7 wrote:Dust Fiend? Hes alive?
Jesus that was a long hibernation lol. But OT, theyre nowhere near as good as they used to be, but still good if used situationally, rather than all the time like I used to.
As Atiim said, a light rail buff would be more than welcome.
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Atiim
13068
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Posted - 2014.10.19 17:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on.
Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14719
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Posted - 2014.10.19 17:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different.
One commando. From huge ranges. With no aim required by them, and high skill and sp required by the pilot.
We always knew infantry would ruin vehicle play, it's just sad to see it finally happened
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
18260
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Posted - 2014.10.19 17:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:
We always knew infantry would ruin vehicle play, it's just sad to see it finally happened
Spkr, is that you?
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14719
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Posted - 2014.10.19 17:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
We always knew infantry would ruin vehicle play, it's just sad to see it finally happened
Spkr, is that you?
You know it's a dark day when spkr was right
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2290
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Posted - 2014.10.19 18:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
There just need to be more turret options and new racial ADS bonuses and they'll be fine.
Dust was real! I was there!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
255
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Posted - 2014.10.19 18:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dropship
Support vehicle.
Primarily use>Deployment of fresh infantry on battlefield
Secondary use>Supportive supressive fire
How we can see, dropship is still just "taxi" armed, but its specification is still "Taxi".
"Ultimate Loggi, Pirmatar and fabulous Tinker since 2012"
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Izlare Lenix
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
1062
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Isn't it obvious?
With no real role, high cost and the fact that everything from swarms to rdvs can kill ADSs with ease CCPs plan for ADSs is for them to simply be an ISK sink.
Gun control is not about guns...it's about control.
The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
256
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 19:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Izlare Lenix wrote:Isn't it obvious?
With no real role, high cost and the fact that everything from swarms to rdvs can kill ADSs with ease CCPs plan for ADSs is for them to simply be an ISK sink.
Its faster taxi ergo its have role
"Ultimate Loggi, Pirmatar and fabulous Tinker since 2012"
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1261
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
if the pilot is good enough a Blaster Incubus MELTS tanks if e swoops in from behind to get in close.. last i heard it was like 3000 dps at L5
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]]
[[Level 1 Forum Warrior]]
[[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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TEBOW BAGGINS
GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING
1290
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
they were supposed to rework the swarms so they cannot make 90 degree turns and back to the days where they collided with buildings/terrain.. all they did was buff the swarms and left the first part out.
AKA Zirzo Valcyn
AFKing since 2012
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Fizzer XCIV
Company of Marcher Lords
Amarr Empire
593
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Denchlad 7 wrote:Dust Fiend? Hes alive?
Jesus that was a long hibernation lol. But OT, theyre nowhere near as good as they used to be, but still good if used situationally, rather than all the time like I used to.
As Atiim said, a light rail buff would be more than welcome. Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
As far as I am concerned, double swarm commandos have EVERY right to absolutely wreck vehicles, and you have no rights to complain about it.
They have absolutely no way of defending themselves from infantry other than melee, which is useless.
And ADS still have a use, just because that use isn't "murder-**** infantry" doesn't mean that they are somehow worthless.
Get gud.
Swag-suit4lyfe!
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Everything Dies
LIFE IS KILLING ME
1031
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:This is EXACTLY why the one fun part of the game was thoroughly butchered during my absence
Butchered? Having their price reduced to correspond with an attempt to fix an openly-acknowledged bug that resulted in dropships being the supreme killers in battles and adjusting the afterburners to actually introduce the risk of having an ADS destroyed hardly sounds like being "butchered."
Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
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Atiim
13073
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. One commando. From huge ranges. With no aim required by them, and high skill and sp required by the pilot. We always knew infantry would ruin vehicle play, it's just sad to see it finally happened
So when you said "double swarm commandos", you meant one player with dual swarms? Lol, just recall your Dropship, drive up to him, and feel free to melee him to death while laughing at how defenseless he is.
When it comes to Vehicles, 175m is not a huge range by any standards. Even properly fitted LAVs can escape that area before the 3rd lock is finished. The only thing that was ruining vehicle play were flying gunships which could obliterate HAVs (and anything, really) without risk.
And now, we've fixed that. You're welcome.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Vicious Minotaur
1241
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vehicles have no point.
And you have CCP to thank for that, not infantry.
I am a minotaur.
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
256
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dropships are fine, i can see many pilots who basicaly mastered their skill for stunts what i never saw before (like flying through open spaces of instalation on battlefield and taking cover even behind the horizont).
There is nothing what is in comparsion between swarmies and dropships unbalanced now
"Ultimate Loggi, Pirmatar and fabulous Tinker since 2012"
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
507
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 19:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
I thought drop ships were for transport. Not killing everything. |
hfderrtgvcd
879
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
clear uplinks and kill ****
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
256
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:I thought drop ships were for transport. Not killing everything.
Exactly how i told, its flying armed taxi.
Hell that name> DROP-SHIP
"Ultimate Loggi, Pirmatar and fabulous Tinker since 2012"
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Kaughst
Nyain San
General Tso's Alliance
738
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 19:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
The ADS will always be in a confusing place because designing a vehicle that is inherently meant to ferry people and slapping on a turret to the front does not make this the Jet fighter that was seen at Fanfest 2013.
"Why do we fight?"
"To win the war."
"Meh... Works for me."
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
507
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
postapo wastelander wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:I thought drop ships were for transport. Not killing everything. Exactly how i told, its flying armed taxi. Hell that name> DROP-SHIP My english is not great (hell its quite mediocre) but i understand this. Why other people dont?!
Its because they were used to killing everything without any danger and now they actually have to worry about av they complain. |
postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
257
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 19:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:postapo wastelander wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:I thought drop ships were for transport. Not killing everything. Exactly how i told, its flying armed taxi. Hell that name> DROP-SHIP My english is not great (hell its quite mediocre) but i understand this. Why other people dont?! Its because they were used to killing everything without any danger and now they actually have to worry about av they complain.
I have message for them.
Wait for possible racial vehicle implements or for Valkyrie on Ps4
"Ultimate Loggi, Pirmatar and fabulous Tinker since 2012"
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14721
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:postapo wastelander wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:I thought drop ships were for transport. Not killing everything. Exactly how i told, its flying armed taxi. Hell that name> DROP-SHIP My english is not great (hell its quite mediocre) but i understand this. Why other people dont?! Its because they were used to killing everything without any danger and now they actually have to worry about av they complain.
if you couldn't kill an Incubus before, you were just bad. Now, I don't see how to not kill them lmfao. I don't play this game anymore, haven't in months. Just laughing at how the community driven "balance" has led to a fairly pointless ADS that can't even act as reliable AV. Thankfully swarm players can look up and collect points though ;)
Oh, and lol @ transport, most maps make transport via dropship poimtless outside the initial drop, and hovering to pick people up was always a recioe for failure, even before the easiest to use weapon in the game was repeatedly buffed
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3253
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Judge? Judge doesn't play Dust anymore or participate in CPM stuffs.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
507
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 20:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:postapo wastelander wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:I thought drop ships were for transport. Not killing everything. Exactly how i told, its flying armed taxi. Hell that name> DROP-SHIP My english is not great (hell its quite mediocre) but i understand this. Why other people dont?! Its because they were used to killing everything without any danger and now they actually have to worry about av they complain. if you couldn't kill an Incubus before, you were just bad. Now, I don't see how to not kill them lmfao. I don't play this game anymore, haven't in months. Just laughing at how the community driven "balance" has led to a fairly pointless ADS that can't even act as reliable AV. Thankfully swarm players can look up and collect points though ;) Oh, and lol @ transport, most maps make transport via dropship poimtless outside the initial drop, and hovering to pick people up was always a recioe for failure, even before the easiest to use weapon in the game was repeatedly buffed
4 point maps yes. Most of the time getting the city wins the game. But on 5 point maps, go from your home point to theirs in less than 5 seconds. But that's pointless apparently. Can you also explain these multiple swarm buffs? Cos its only been buffed once and that was a speed buff. |
hfderrtgvcd
879
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Posted - 2014.10.19 20:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:postapo wastelander wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:I thought drop ships were for transport. Not killing everything. Exactly how i told, its flying armed taxi. Hell that name> DROP-SHIP My english is not great (hell its quite mediocre) but i understand this. Why other people dont?! Its because they were used to killing everything without any danger and now they actually have to worry about av they complain. if you couldn't kill an Incubus before, you were just bad. Now, I don't see how to not kill them lmfao. I don't play this game anymore, haven't in months. Just laughing at how the community driven "balance" has led to a fairly pointless ADS that can't even act as reliable AV. Thankfully swarm players can look up and collect points though ;) Oh, and lol @ transport, most maps make transport via dropship poimtless outside the initial drop, and hovering to pick people up was always a recioe for failure, even before the easiest to use weapon in the game was repeatedly buffed
so you haven't even tried them after the changes? lol
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Operative 1125 Lokaas
True Companion Planetary Requisitions
507
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Posted - 2014.10.19 20:21:00 -
[34] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Perhaps you're just to used to being able to kill things by merely looking at them?
So, it is o.k. for scouts, swarmers and heavies to do this but not vehicles? Right, got it.
THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
262
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Posted - 2014.10.19 20:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Judge? Judge doesn't play Dust anymore or participate in CPM stuffs.
Honestly and without jokin' B*shate, he have his problems right now, because his father.
Just check his lates thread
"Ultimate Loggi, Pirmatar and fabulous Tinker since 2012"
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
507
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote:Atiim wrote:Perhaps you're just to used to being able to kill things by merely looking at them? So, it is o.k. for scouts, swarmers and heavies to do this but not vehicles? Right, got it.
He didn't say that. And explain how swarms can kill anything they look at. |
Operative 1125 Lokaas
True Companion Planetary Requisitions
507
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Posted - 2014.10.19 21:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote:Atiim wrote:Perhaps you're just to used to being able to kill things by merely looking at them? So, it is o.k. for scouts, swarmers and heavies to do this but not vehicles? Right, got it. He didn't say that. And explain how swarms can kill anything they look at.
Lol, pedantry. He's said that in so many words in just about every post related to vehicles. Also, swarms now easily kill what they are made to shoot at, esp. dropships.
Fact: Balancing things went right back around to where they started.
THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3255
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Posted - 2014.10.19 23:05:00 -
[38] - Quote
postapo wastelander wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Judge? Judge doesn't play Dust anymore or participate in CPM stuffs. Honestly and without jokin' B*shate, he have his problems right now, because his father. Just check his lates thread
Nah I get it, I'm just saying he's not involved in CPM at this point.
There is a character named Rhadamanthus on Destiny though...
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
508
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 00:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote:Atiim wrote:Perhaps you're just to used to being able to kill things by merely looking at them? So, it is o.k. for scouts, swarmers and heavies to do this but not vehicles? Right, got it. He didn't say that. And explain how swarms can kill anything they look at. Lol, pedantry. He's said that in so many words in just about every post related to vehicles. Also, swarms now easily kill what they are made to shoot at, esp. dropships. Fact: Balancing things went right back around to where they started.
No it hasn't. The fact swarms work now is a good thing. Considering it can't hurt anything else it should destroy any vehicle if it sits in an area too long. |
DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14723
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 03:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote:Atiim wrote:Perhaps you're just to used to being able to kill things by merely looking at them? So, it is o.k. for scouts, swarmers and heavies to do this but not vehicles? Right, got it. He didn't say that. And explain how swarms can kill anything they look at. Lol, pedantry. He's said that in so many words in just about every post related to vehicles. Also, swarms now easily kill what they are made to shoot at, esp. dropships. Fact: Balancing things went right back around to where they started. No it hasn't. The fact swarms work now is a good thing. Considering it can't hurt anything else it should destroy any vehicle if it sits in an area too long.
The main issue comes from how effortles they are. At least:forge guns require an understanding of timings, the ability to aim, and the lack of mobility. Swarms should be area denial weapons unless the vehicle lingers, or there are multiple swarms. Havim such effecrive AV at lottle to no personal effort on part of he operator makes for frustrating gameplay.
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
396
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Posted - 2014.10.20 03:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
Blaster turrets are great for melting shields on Dropships!
Been here since Mordus Private Trials
Closed Beta Vet under 30 million SP ;-;
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Operative 1125 Lokaas
True Companion Planetary Requisitions
508
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Posted - 2014.10.20 04:11:00 -
[42] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The main issue comes from how effortles they are. At least:forge guns require an understanding of timings, the ability to aim, and the lack of mobility. Swarms should be area denial weapons unless the vehicle lingers, or there are multiple swarms. Havim such effecrive AV at lottle to no personal effort on part of he operator makes for frustrating gameplay.
Yeah, we're back to the one guy that's always there because of how easy and effective swarms are. He just sits there on top of a building and fires away. You can't get to him quickly before he keeps firing off the shots.
One person doing more than area of denial and out and out downing a ds or tank makes it unbalanced due to ease of use. Everybody ends up doing it like last time before the vehicle balance patch.
There are other things that can be nerfed if the concern is for tanks and ads to stop sitting on infantry and ppl want to be able to completely down them. Ammo limitations is one way. Another way is bigger contrast in offensive vs. defensive fittings. Also, nerf range and accuracy for basic turrets. If I fit a basic turret and complex heavy mods then I should be able to move in and tank the damage of one guy.
THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
238
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Posted - 2014.10.20 06:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
No matter how anyone tries to cut it, swarms will always be the scrubiest weapon in Dust.
They have a million excuses as to why they cannot learn to aim with a forge gun, and the only ones who are but hurt about flying things flying away.
ADS vs unarmed infantry hasn't changed. The danger of fighting forge gunners hasn't really changed. Swarms where excellent area denial before Delta and that hasn't changed. My ADS KD has gone way up since Delta.
The only thing that has is that swarmers that were too scrubby to get kills before are having it handed to them now.
Also, don't take hypocritical ''like'' scroungers like Atiim seriously, how you gonna complain the ADS kills too much i for weeks then propose a buff to ADS splash, and ROF in another.
Atiim wrote:I think the RoF on all turrets need to be increased by 15%, and have a different bonus for the ADS, maybe:
+5% Splash Radius per Level (Python)
+8% Heat Sink Expansion per Level (Incubus)
Not only that, but the Damage on 20GJ Railguns also needs an increase. As it stands now, they have absolutely no chance against a 'Triple Rep' Madrugar.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14723
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Posted - 2014.10.20 07:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:Blaster turrets are great for melting shields on Dropships!
Some day I'll have to hop on and test that. I know waaaay back in the glory days, blasters were mean as ****, and were amazing anti shield weapons. Then, one day, they were garbage, and stayed that way, particularly against shields. With no noticeable RoF boos any more and no direct damage biff to compensate for this loss, I have trouble seeing them performing very well as AV.
I'll give it a look at some point though.
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Scoota Eu
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
99
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Posted - 2014.10.20 07:18:00 -
[45] - Quote
Well mate, I think the returning back to the original question; It's like a dropship wot can shoot. |
Atiim
13089
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Posted - 2014.10.20 12:12:00 -
[46] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:
Also, don't take hypocritical ''like'' scroungers like Atiim seriously, how you gonna complain the ADS kills too much i for weeks then propose a buff to ADS splash, and ROF in another.
The +15% RoF wouldn't be a buff, it'd be exactly what we have now. It's only purpose would be to compensate for the removal of the RoF skill under that proposition.
As for splash radius, I don't see a problem with that increasing as long as the damage stays the same. There's a wide area in which AVers can hit ADSs, while the area in which ADSs can hit ADSs is very small, making engagements too one sided.
Also, lolforum likes. Those things are worthless.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
|
Echo 1991
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
511
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 12:53:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:No matter how anyone tries to cut it, swarms will always be the scrubiest weapon in Dust. They have a million excuses as to why they cannot learn to aim with a forge gun, and the only ones who are but hurt about flying things flying away. ADS vs unarmed infantry hasn't changed. The danger of fighting forge gunners hasn't really changed. Swarms where excellent area denial before Delta and that hasn't changed. My ADS KD has gone way up since Delta. The only thing that has is that swarmers that were too scrubby to get kills before are having it handed to them now. Also, don't take hypocritical ''like'' scroungers like Atiim seriously, how you gonna complain the ADS kills too much i for weeks then propose a buff to ADS splash, and ROF in another. Atiim wrote:I think the RoF on all turrets need to be increased by 15%, and have a different bonus for the ADS, maybe:
+5% Splash Radius per Level (Python)
+8% Heat Sink Expansion per Level (Incubus)
Not only that, but the Damage on 20GJ Railguns also needs an increase. As it stands now, they have absolutely no chance against a 'Triple Rep' Madrugar.
You do realise the only buffs the swarm launcher has had is an increase in damage at STD and ADV and a slight acceleration increase right? I'm sick of hearing that one of the 2 light av weapons should be for area denial. A weapon that can essentiallly only hurt vehicles shod destroy them, not deter them.
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
511
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 13:06:00 -
[48] - Quote
Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:The main issue comes from how effortles they are. At least:forge guns require an understanding of timings, the ability to aim, and the lack of mobility. Swarms should be area denial weapons unless the vehicle lingers, or there are multiple swarms. Havim such effecrive AV at lottle to no personal effort on part of he operator makes for frustrating gameplay. Yeah, we're back to the one guy that's always there because of how easy and effective swarms are. He just sits there on top of a building and fires away. You can't get to him quickly before he keeps firing off the shots. One person doing more than area of denial and out and out downing a ds or tank makes it unbalanced due to ease of use. Everybody ends up doing it like last time before the vehicle balance patch. There are other things that can be nerfed if the concern is for tanks and ads to stop sitting on infantry and ppl want to be able to completely down them. Ammo limitations is one way. Another way is bigger contrast in offensive vs. defensive fittings. Also, nerf range and accuracy for basic turrets. If I fit a basic turret and complex heavy mods then I should be able to move in and tank the damage of one guy.
You shouldn't be able to tank the same of one guy or it creates an imbalance. If there were more people in the matches like 32v32 or 64v64 I would be more inclined to agree, as two players being removed from that doesn't cause as much of an advantage for the other side.
I will say that armour tanks currently have really bad fitting room and need a buff. |
Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
74
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 14:13:00 -
[49] - Quote
So yesterday I was playing a game. A guy on the other team was using a python, me and a couple of squadmates were using forge guns. I was up on the roof of one of the little warehouses (building with 4 ladders at each corner with the 4 little humps on top).
The python kept coming down and attacking me over and over, literally hovering 10 feet from me for long enough for me to hit it three times with my forge gun.
Then he would afterburn/shield boost away and my last shot would hit but not kill him due to the shield boost.
He did this over and over again, he was apparently having some issues with aiming because he rarely hit me, but I have no doubt he would have killed me over and over if he could fix his terrible aim. Eventually right before the match ended he just squished me against the side of one of the humps and killed me.
If anyone actually believes ADS still arent overpowered when an ADS can literally hover point blank in front of the unit that is designed to counter it, and tank every shot the guy puts into it, then just fly away scott free... well... if you still think its underpowered, I have news: Its not the ADS, its you. You suck.
Every vehicle has this feature: it is entirely the pilot's decision to be killed. You can escape any time and there is little to nothing any infantry can do about it. The only thing that will for sure stop a vehicle is a massive overwhelming alpha strike. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4617
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 14:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man?
50% greater rate of fire on one platform makes the turret difficult to balance, as it performed so differently on an ADS than on other platforms.
Rattati over-nerfed the ADS because he needed to get rid of the 50% bonus to properly balance the turret and did not feel that the ADS community was providing any constructive alternatives. His numbers also suggested that the ADS was OP with the 50% bonus.
Rattati has however expressed a full willingness to consider further changes to the ADS to make it useful again, so I suggest that if you care about ADS you engage in a positive manner in that discussion.
As for Judge, I hear he is in the top 1% of players in time spent playing Destiny. He has been skipping out on CPM stuff claiming Real Life issues require his time. The guys I voted for on the CPM are at least still providing CCP with their feedback.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14725
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Posted - 2014.10.20 14:50:00 -
[51] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:So yesterday I was playing a game. A guy on the other team was using a python, me and a couple of squadmates were using forge guns. I was up on the roof of one of the little warehouses (building with 4 ladders at each corner with the 4 little humps on top).
The python kept coming down and attacking me over and over, literally hovering 10 feet from me for long enough for me to hit it three times with my forge gun.
Then he would afterburn/shield boost away and my last shot would hit but not kill him due to the shield boost.
He did this over and over again, he was apparently having some issues with aiming because he rarely hit me, but I have no doubt he would have killed me over and over if he could fix his terrible aim. Eventually right before the match ended he just squished me against the side of one of the humps and killed me.
If anyone actually believes ADS still arent overpowered when an ADS can hover point blank in front of the unit that is designed to counter it, and tank every shot the guy puts into it, then just fly away scott free... well... if you still think its underpowered, I have news: Its not the ADS, its you. You suck.
Every vehicle has this feature: it is entirely the pilot's decision to be killed. You can escape any time and there is little to nothing any infantry can do about it. The only thing that will for sure stop a vehicle is a massive overwhelming alpha strike.
Key word: Python. They've always been OP as **** because nothing does bonus damage to shields, and missiles are childs play to use. There's a reason Pythons are the go to ship for most pilots, new and old.
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
511
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 14:56:00 -
[52] - Quote
Incubi need more HP at base. and/or more fitting room. I also think that both ADS need an extra slot. 1H for the inci and 1 low for the python because fitthing them is really stale. |
DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14725
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 14:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Incubi need more HP at base. and/or more fitting room. I also think that both ADS need an extra slot. 1H for the inci and 1 low for the python because fitthing them is really stale.
I miss the 2/4 layout :(
Also, how God damn long does it take to "fix" logistics ships?
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
74
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 15:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:So yesterday I was playing a game. A guy on the other team was using a python, me and a couple of squadmates were using forge guns. I was up on the roof of one of the little warehouses (building with 4 ladders at each corner with the 4 little humps on top).
The python kept coming down and attacking me over and over, literally hovering 10 feet from me for long enough for me to hit it three times with my forge gun.
Then he would afterburn/shield boost away and my last shot would hit but not kill him due to the shield boost.
He did this over and over again, he was apparently having some issues with aiming because he rarely hit me, but I have no doubt he would have killed me over and over if he could fix his terrible aim. Eventually right before the match ended he just squished me against the side of one of the humps and killed me.
If anyone actually believes ADS still arent overpowered when an ADS can hover point blank in front of the unit that is designed to counter it, and tank every shot the guy puts into it, then just fly away scott free... well... if you still think its underpowered, I have news: Its not the ADS, its you. You suck.
Every vehicle has this feature: it is entirely the pilot's decision to be killed. You can escape any time and there is little to nothing any infantry can do about it. The only thing that will for sure stop a vehicle is a massive overwhelming alpha strike. Key word: Python. They've always been OP as **** because nothing does bonus damage to shields, and missiles are childs play to use. There's a reason Pythons are the go to ship for most pilots, new and old.
The same issue exists for Incubi, Grimsnes, and Myrons. The point is that in a fight between an AV player and a vehicle of any kind, it is 100% the vehicle pilot's fight to lose. There is no way for the AV guy to WIN the fight. They might drive the vehicle behind something or even drive him off the field, but that vehicle is not dead. Dead AV is a result of normal routine gameplay. Dead vehicles are the result of mistakes by the pilot. |
Echo 1991
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
512
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 15:01:00 -
[55] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Incubi need more HP at base. and/or more fitting room. I also think that both ADS need an extra slot. 1H for the inci and 1 low for the python because fitthing them is really stale. I miss the 2/4 layout :( Also, how God damn long does it take to "fix" logistics ships?
I miss them, they were really fun. I do miss the old vehicle mods. |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2204
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 15:04:00 -
[56] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man?
There is no point now. What infantry wants, infantry gets. What they ultimately want is a copy of Call of Duty, obviously no vehicles.
And Judge is AWOL.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14725
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 15:13:00 -
[57] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:So yesterday I was playing a game. A guy on the other team was using a python, me and a couple of squadmates were using forge guns. I was up on the roof of one of the little warehouses (building with 4 ladders at each corner with the 4 little humps on top).
The python kept coming down and attacking me over and over, literally hovering 10 feet from me for long enough for me to hit it three times with my forge gun.
Then he would afterburn/shield boost away and my last shot would hit but not kill him due to the shield boost.
He did this over and over again, he was apparently having some issues with aiming because he rarely hit me, but I have no doubt he would have killed me over and over if he could fix his terrible aim. Eventually right before the match ended he just squished me against the side of one of the humps and killed me.
If anyone actually believes ADS still arent overpowered when an ADS can hover point blank in front of the unit that is designed to counter it, and tank every shot the guy puts into it, then just fly away scott free... well... if you still think its underpowered, I have news: Its not the ADS, its you. You suck.
Every vehicle has this feature: it is entirely the pilot's decision to be killed. You can escape any time and there is little to nothing any infantry can do about it. The only thing that will for sure stop a vehicle is a massive overwhelming alpha strike. Key word: Python. They've always been OP as **** because nothing does bonus damage to shields, and missiles are childs play to use. There's a reason Pythons are the go to ship for most pilots, new and old. The same issue exists for Incubi, Grimsnes, and Myrons. The point is that in a fight between an AV player and a vehicle of any kind, it is 100% the vehicle pilot's fight to lose. There is no way for the AV guy to WIN the fight. They might drive the vehicle behind something or even drive him off the field, but that vehicle is not dead. Dead AV is a result of normal routine gameplay. Dead vehicles are the result of mistakes by the pilot.
Its a delicate thing to try to balance though because infantry will always outnumber vehicles, so if you make them easy to solo, suddenly it becomes mathematically impossible to survive the moment they start using teamwork. Also, lmao at ANYONE who can't down a standard dropship on their own terms
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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hfderrtgvcd
898
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 15:14:00 -
[58] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man? There is no point now. What infantry wants, infantry gets. What they ultimately want is a copy of Call of Duty, obviously no vehicles. And Judge is AWOL.
You know you're wrong when Spkr agrees with you.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14725
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 15:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man? There is no point now. What infantry wants, infantry gets. What they ultimately want is a copy of Call of Duty, obviously no vehicles. And Judge is AWOL. You know you're wrong when Spkr agrees with you.
Once, there was truth to that. He may be melodramatic but the man has a point. Vehicle play is for people who like to waste SP as anything a vehicle can do, a lone infantryman can almost always do better.
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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hfderrtgvcd
898
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 15:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man? There is no point now. What infantry wants, infantry gets. What they ultimately want is a copy of Call of Duty, obviously no vehicles. And Judge is AWOL. You know you're wrong when Spkr agrees with you. Once, there was truth to that. He may be melodramatic but the man has a point. Vehicle play is for people who like to waste SP as anything a vehicle can do, a lone infantryman can almost always do better.
a lone infantry man cannot clear rooftop uplinks, suppress infantry, and stop hacks as well as an ADS curretnly can.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
74
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 15:29:00 -
[61] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:So yesterday I was playing a game. A guy on the other team was using a python, me and a couple of squadmates were using forge guns. I was up on the roof of one of the little warehouses (building with 4 ladders at each corner with the 4 little humps on top).
The python kept coming down and attacking me over and over, literally hovering 10 feet from me for long enough for me to hit it three times with my forge gun.
Then he would afterburn/shield boost away and my last shot would hit but not kill him due to the shield boost.
He did this over and over again, he was apparently having some issues with aiming because he rarely hit me, but I have no doubt he would have killed me over and over if he could fix his terrible aim. Eventually right before the match ended he just squished me against the side of one of the humps and killed me.
If anyone actually believes ADS still arent overpowered when an ADS can hover point blank in front of the unit that is designed to counter it, and tank every shot the guy puts into it, then just fly away scott free... well... if you still think its underpowered, I have news: Its not the ADS, its you. You suck.
Every vehicle has this feature: it is entirely the pilot's decision to be killed. You can escape any time and there is little to nothing any infantry can do about it. The only thing that will for sure stop a vehicle is a massive overwhelming alpha strike. Key word: Python. They've always been OP as **** because nothing does bonus damage to shields, and missiles are childs play to use. There's a reason Pythons are the go to ship for most pilots, new and old. The same issue exists for Incubi, Grimsnes, and Myrons. The point is that in a fight between an AV player and a vehicle of any kind, it is 100% the vehicle pilot's fight to lose. There is no way for the AV guy to WIN the fight. They might drive the vehicle behind something or even drive him off the field, but that vehicle is not dead. Dead AV is a result of normal routine gameplay. Dead vehicles are the result of mistakes by the pilot. Its a delicate thing to try to balance though because infantry will always outnumber vehicles, so if you make them easy to solo, suddenly it becomes mathematically impossible to survive the moment they start using teamwork. Also, lmao at ANYONE who can't down a standard dropship on their own terms
Why do you think standard dropships are easy to kill?
My experience is the same as with the ADS, badly driven ones are free points but well driven ones are invincible.
This is from both AV perspective on this character and from driving them on my vehicle alt.
And why do you think multiple AV shouldn't be able to steamroll vehicles?
AV is the direct in game counter to vehicles. It doesnt matter than "infantry" outnumbers vehicles, there are 16 people on each team. If vehicles are definitively better than infantry it creates an imbalance that cannot be resolved within a single match (in other words: vehicles are overpowered and you should always use them over infantry). AV SHOULD be able to kill vehicles, its the entire purpose of AV. |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2832
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 15:43:00 -
[62] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man?
Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted.
Email Me [email protected]
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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Grimmiers
664
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 16:03:00 -
[63] - Quote
I use it to knock people off of the high ground until av takes me out. |
hfderrtgvcd
899
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 16:05:00 -
[64] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted.
was this in private with ccp? I didn't see anything on the forums or any videos.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5029
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 16:06:00 -
[65] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted.
I think the data for the ADS is so overwhelming because matches are filled with solo players that are simply not willing to deal with them.
I can't wrap my head around it because they seem so easy to deal with. I don't understand why people feel that they HAVE to kill it if it's in the air. By making them run, you've done your job. In my experience most pilots don't run when they should and I get plenty of ADS kills.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2834
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 16:11:00 -
[66] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted. was this in private with ccp? I didn't see anything on the forums or any videos.
CPM to CPM/CPP feedback.
Email Me [email protected]
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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RayRay James
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
541
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 16:30:00 -
[67] - Quote
Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different.
Actually, in this specific example, you're Assault could kill both without issue. |
Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
75
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 16:32:00 -
[68] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. Actually, in this specific example, you're Assault could kill both without issue.
Look guys, thoughtless bullshit! |
Haerr
Clone Manque
1672
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 16:33:00 -
[69] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted. I think the data for the ADS is so overwhelming because matches are filled with solo players that are simply not willing to deal with them. I can't wrap my head around it because they seem so easy to deal with. I don't understand why people feel that they HAVE to kill it if it's in the air. By making them run, you've done your job. In my experience most pilots don't run when they should and I get plenty of ADS kills.
The one thing I do not get about people who simply insist on killing vehicles, as opposed to making them useless (which in my opinion is better as one vehicle pilot hiding in his vehicle really is one less enemy), is that they simply refuse to cooperate with others and then get furious when the vehicle escapes...
If you absolutely need to kill a DS you can at least be smart about it, get a AV buddy and do NOT flash your AV by shooting at LAVs or Turrets, wait until the vehicle is in a position which it cannot easily escape from (or you are in its escape path) and both you and your mate have a shot (or lock-on) before firing.
Though a lot would still say that a forge gun pair in a LAV is the go to vehicle hunter standard, the Swarms are pretty damn strong atm.
Haerr's huge list of wish for 1.9 - 1.10:
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5031
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 16:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:RayRay James wrote:Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. Actually, in this specific example, you're Assault could kill both without issue. Look guys, thoughtless bullshit!
Taking on 2 commandos with dual swarm launchers would be very easy with an assault suit.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
75
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 16:50:00 -
[71] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:RayRay James wrote:Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. Actually, in this specific example, you're Assault could kill both without issue. Look guys, thoughtless bullshit! Taking on 2 commandos with dual swarm launchers would be very easy with an assault suit.
You guys are talking about two different scenarios. You are talking about a commandos using 2 swarm launchers, and Atiim is talking about fighting 2 commandos who have anti infantry light weapons equipped.
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14727
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 17:06:00 -
[72] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted.
Thanks for the response Judge, you're literally the one player who's input I have any real respect for anymore. Not to say others don't deserve to be heard or anything, it's just you were always the voice of reason for us dedicated pilots who are few and far between, once you weed out the wannabes. Honestly, when I heard you stepped away from the game, I was happy for you. Then I heard it was for family reasons, and was less happy for you. I really hope that clears up for you guys, and that whatever game you choose to pour you focus into, you do well in.
You will always be one of the greatest assets to us pilots, qnd if CCP / CPM can't see that, **** em.
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5033
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 17:09:00 -
[73] - Quote
I'd agree with Soraya and others if the game was meant to be played solo.
But it's not.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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RayRay James
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
544
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 17:16:00 -
[74] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
Look guys, thoughtless bullshit!
Taking on 2 commandos with dual swarm launchers would be very easy with an assault suit. You guys are talking about two different scenarios. You are talking about a commandos using 2 swarm launchers, and Atiim is talking about fighting 2 commandos who have anti infantry light weapons equipped.
Atiim never made that clarification. The original post was about dual-swarm commandos, Atiim responded about Commandos w/o clarifying. It was that lack of clarification that lead me to believe the same scenario existed in both comments.
But if it's easier for you to be a pedantic prick, by all means, go ahead an continue insulting people on the internet. You'll feel better for it. |
DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14727
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 17:20:00 -
[75] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
Look guys, thoughtless bullshit!
Taking on 2 commandos with dual swarm launchers would be very easy with an assault suit. You guys are talking about two different scenarios. You are talking about a commandos using 2 swarm launchers, and Atiim is talking about fighting 2 commandos who have anti infantry light weapons equipped. Atiim never made that clarification. The original post was about dual-swarm commandos, Atiim responded about Commandos w/o clarifying. It was that lack of clarification that lead me to believe the same scenario existed in both comments. But if it's easier for you to be a pedantic prick, by all means, go ahead an continue insulting people on the internet. You'll feel better for it.
Anyone who properly uses the word 'pedantic' deserves no less than 10 likes for their trouble.
Just sayin'
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
75
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 17:25:00 -
[76] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
Look guys, thoughtless bullshit!
Taking on 2 commandos with dual swarm launchers would be very easy with an assault suit. You guys are talking about two different scenarios. You are talking about a commandos using 2 swarm launchers, and Atiim is talking about fighting 2 commandos who have anti infantry light weapons equipped. Atiim never made that clarification. The original post was about dual-swarm commandos, Atiim responded about Commandos w/o clarifying. It was that lack of clarification that lead me to believe the same scenario existed in both comments. But if it's easier for you to be a pedantic prick, by all means, go ahead an continue insulting people on the internet. You'll feel better for it.
Just read what the guy said and apply 5 seconds of thought to it. If hes really talking about 2 double swarm commandos do you think hes saying they have a chance to mellee him to death? Clearly not. So with my brain organs I deduce he means 2 commandos with a non suicide AV fit (something with a rifle + swarm or some other combo).
Your reply was thoughtless, why reply to a post you arent even bothering to fully understand?
But I do love insulting people on the internet, Im hoping to win a medal someday. |
Atiim
13091
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 17:41:00 -
[77] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. Actually, in this specific example, you're Assault could kill both without issue.
Back when I was in HvLP there were two other Commandos in my corp, Lynn Beck & Vlad. Whenever we'd squad up not a single thing we looked at would survive. Not Scouts, Not Tanks, not even Sentinels stood a chance.
If you think you could 2 of us than you're delusional.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
|
RayRay James
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
548
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 17:41:00 -
[78] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:RayRay James wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
Look guys, thoughtless bullshit!
Taking on 2 commandos with dual swarm launchers would be very easy with an assault suit. You guys are talking about two different scenarios. You are talking about a commandos using 2 swarm launchers, and Atiim is talking about fighting 2 commandos who have anti infantry light weapons equipped. Atiim never made that clarification. The original post was about dual-swarm commandos, Atiim responded about Commandos w/o clarifying. It was that lack of clarification that lead me to believe the same scenario existed in both comments. But if it's easier for you to be a pedantic prick, by all means, go ahead an continue insulting people on the internet. You'll feel better for it. Anyone who properly uses the word 'pedantic' deserves no less than 10 likes for their trouble. Just sayin'
Thanks, I try.
9 more votes to go |
RayRay James
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
549
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 17:50:00 -
[79] - Quote
Atiim wrote:RayRay James wrote:Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. Actually, in this specific example, you're Assault could kill both without issue. Back when I was in HvLP there were two other Commandos in my corp, Lynn Beck & Vlad. Whenever we'd squad up not a single thing we looked at would survive. Not Scouts, Not Tanks, not even Sentinels stood a chance. If you think you could 2 of us than you're delusional.
Apparently (and as others have pointed out) I was mistaken in what you meant.
The scenario originally posed was 2 Dual-Swarm commandos, to which I responded that your Assault should be able to handle 2 AV only commandos without issue.
I never meant that your single Assault should be able to take out 2 commandos when they are fit with both Infantry and AV weapons. |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2211
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 17:55:00 -
[80] - Quote
Atiim wrote:*Killing People
*High-Speed Transport
*Anti-Python (Incubus)
*Kamikaze (Incubus vs Python)
They've still got their uses.
Do you even pilot?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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|
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2215
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 17:56:00 -
[81] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. One commando. From huge ranges. With no aim required by them, and high skill and sp required by the pilot. We always knew infantry would ruin vehicle play, it's just sad to see it finally happened
It's been happening for a long time. Delta was the final nail in the coffin for the ADS.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2215
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 17:57:00 -
[82] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
We always knew infantry would ruin vehicle play, it's just sad to see it finally happened
Spkr, is that you?
I don't alt post.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2215
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 17:58:00 -
[83] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
We always knew infantry would ruin vehicle play, it's just sad to see it finally happened
Spkr, is that you? You know it's a dark day when spkr was right
Pilots have always been right. When the TAC AR was proven to be on par with large blasters, infantry thought it was fine. When 7000 damage was coming out of swarm tubes, infantry thought it was fine.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2215
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 17:59:00 -
[84] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Denchlad 7 wrote:Dust Fiend? Hes alive?
Jesus that was a long hibernation lol. But OT, theyre nowhere near as good as they used to be, but still good if used situationally, rather than all the time like I used to.
As Atiim said, a light rail buff would be more than welcome. Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling. As far as I am concerned, double swarm commandos have EVERY right to absolutely wreck vehicles, and you have no rights to complain about it. They have absolutely no way of defending themselves from infantry other than melee, which is useless. And ADS still have a use, just because that use isn't "murder-**** infantry" doesn't mean that they are somehow worthless. Get gud.
Their own fault for not equipping a rifle.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2215
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 18:02:00 -
[85] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:Vehicles have no point.
And you have CCP to thank for that, not infantry.
No, infantry is to thank for constantly having vehicles nerfed.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Atiim
13092
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 18:39:00 -
[86] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:
The scenario originally posed was 2 Dual-Swarm commandos, to which I responded that your Assault should be able to handle 2 AV only commandos without issue.
I never meant that your single Assault should be able to take out 2 commandos when they are fit with both Infantry and AV weapons.
Sorry, I should've worded that better to avoid confusion.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2838
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 18:41:00 -
[87] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted. Thanks for the response Judge, you're literally the one player who's input I have any real respect for anymore. Not to say others don't deserve to be heard or anything, it's just you were always the voice of reason for us dedicated pilots who are few and far between, once you weed out the wannabes. Honestly, when I heard you stepped away from the game, I was happy for you. Then I heard it was for family reasons, and was less happy for you. I really hope that clears up for you guys, and that whatever game you choose to pour you focus into, you do well in. You will always be one of the greatest assets to us pilots, qnd if CCP / CPM can't see that, **** em.
I put 3 weeks into research. Charts, Analysis.... I G N O R E D.
Email Me [email protected]
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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hfderrtgvcd
901
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:04:00 -
[88] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted. Thanks for the response Judge, you're literally the one player who's input I have any real respect for anymore. Not to say others don't deserve to be heard or anything, it's just you were always the voice of reason for us dedicated pilots who are few and far between, once you weed out the wannabes. Honestly, when I heard you stepped away from the game, I was happy for you. Then I heard it was for family reasons, and was less happy for you. I really hope that clears up for you guys, and that whatever game you choose to pour you focus into, you do well in. You will always be one of the greatest assets to us pilots, qnd if CCP / CPM can't see that, **** em. I put 3 weeks into research. Charts, Analysis....All was supplied. Are you aware that some people actually think in a game with monetary rewards and asset cost that a 35 KDR vs a 4 KDR is actually an indication of imbalance! Anyone who cannot understand the flaw here needs to own up to skipping class.
isk balancing is a terrible terrible idea.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2839
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:06:00 -
[89] - Quote
its not ISK balance. We are talking about P and L
Email Me [email protected]
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14729
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:12:00 -
[90] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:its not ISK balance. We are talking about P and L
I'll go ahead and admit it: you lost me on this. Could you elaborate a little? I have the dumb.
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
974
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:17:00 -
[91] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted.
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:I put 3 weeks into research. Charts, Analysis....All was supplied. Are you aware that some people actually think in a game with monetary rewards and asset cost that a 35 KDR vs a 4 KDR is actually an indication of imbalance! Anyone who cannot understand the flaw here needs to own up to skipping class.
You tell em, Judge 
The Incubus is Broken
Judge Rhadamanthus is my Hero
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Atiim
13092
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:24:00 -
[92] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:
I put 3 weeks into research. Charts, Analysis....All was supplied. Are you aware that some people actually think in a game with monetary rewards and asset cost that a 35 KDR vs a 4 KDR is actually an indication of imbalance! Anyone who cannot understand the flaw here needs to own up to skipping class.
If something in an FPS game has a 35.00 KDR they're either a really good Sniper or something's broken. I've only skipped class about 3 times in my life, and I still fail to see the flaw in that.
Of all the metrics used for balancing, ISK is quite easily the worst by far.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
|
CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
300
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:25:00 -
[93] - Quote
Maybe thereGÇÖs no need for any feeling of being ignored or dismissed... Hey, the captain of a team will ask for or invite detailed advice or warnings from his staff---and she WANTS to and WILL absorb the input. ...But itGÇÖs only to help her make her decision, not to obligate her to follow YOUR recommendation or point of view. We know that. Judge knows that too, cuz heGÇÖs Judge, and itGÇÖs hard to find a player on this forum with a more clear minded sense of analysis and reality.
A dropship is cool to operate, and has a wicked fantasy of extraterrestrial fighter-combat attached to it. But... itGÇÖs not the star of the game, wasnGÇÖt intended to be (no matter how much I and others swoon when weGÇÖre using them).
If CCP reads our advice, but still has a different intention than we players have for Logi Dropships (hey, letGÇÖs not forget, thatGÇÖs what an GÇ£ADSGÇ¥ IS, one of the logi dropships that is only still in this game because the population cried outrage when CCP wanted to recall it out of the game with all the other logi vehicles), the devs will make the decision that is most appropriate for their intentions.
...Does anyone want a little drag on this stuff IGÇÖm smoking? I just rolled this morning. Nnnoo, you canGÇÖt have a puff. ItGÇÖs mine.
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2840
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:26:00 -
[94] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:its not ISK balance. We are talking about P and L I'll go ahead and admit it: you lost me on this. Could you elaborate a little? I have the dumb.
No problem, its actually pretty involved math. P and L is Profit and Loss. Profit means more than ISK gained and Loss means more than Isk Loss. It means the Cost, in time, assets and investment vs the loss in the same. So we look at how much it costs an ADS to gain the kills over a set time and at what cost. This is compared to say an assault suit of the same meta.
The aim here is to measure the viability of a career in ADS vs one in assault. The weakness of a P and L is combat effectiveness. I.e how game changeing is an ADS. The only measure we have here is KDR.
I have recorded a script for this. Perhaps it is time I put it to video and released it.
Email Me [email protected]
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
hfderrtgvcd
902
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:28:00 -
[95] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:its not ISK balance. We are talking about P and L I'll go ahead and admit it: you lost me on this. Could you elaborate a little? I have the dumb. No problem, its actually pretty involved math. P and L is Profit and Loss. Profit means more than ISK gained and Loss means more than Isk Loss. It means the Cost, in time, assets and investment vs the loss in the same. So we look at how much it costs an ADS to gain the kills over a set time and at what cost. This is compared to say an assault suit of the same meta. The aim here is to measure the viability of a career in ADS vs one in assault. The weakness of a P and L is combat effectiveness. I.e how game changeing is an ADS. The only measure we have here is KDR. I have recorded a script for this. Perhaps it is time I put it to video and released it.
Cost is irrelevant to the vast majority of veterans in dust. Should I get a 35 kdr purely because I farmed isk and/or received a huge refund when uprising launched?
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
765
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:30:00 -
[96] - Quote
ADS finally dropped down to reality from being the Death Gods of Dust514. ISK was/is being farmed and SP was around Logi level, they are not, and shouldn't be balancing factors. This game is a FPS. |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2842
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:30:00 -
[97] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:its not ISK balance. We are talking about P and L I'll go ahead and admit it: you lost me on this. Could you elaborate a little? I have the dumb. No problem, its actually pretty involved math. P and L is Profit and Loss. Profit means more than ISK gained and Loss means more than Isk Loss. It means the Cost, in time, assets and investment vs the loss in the same. So we look at how much it costs an ADS to gain the kills over a set time and at what cost. This is compared to say an assault suit of the same meta. The aim here is to measure the viability of a career in ADS vs one in assault. The weakness of a P and L is combat effectiveness. I.e how game changeing is an ADS. The only measure we have here is KDR. I have recorded a script for this. Perhaps it is time I put it to video and released it. Cost is irrelevant to the vast majority of veterans in dust. Should I get a 35 kdr purely because I farmed isk and/or received a huge refund when uprising launched?
As I posted, Cost is NOT ISK cost. It is time cost, ISK cost, Skill Cost, Asset Cost and Effectiveness Cost. Think of it thi way. A burger cost say 2 dollars. But if you drive there to get there is the fuel cost (fitting). Then there is the cost of your driving lessons so you can actually drive a car to gt there (skills). Then there is the time cost, what else could you have done while driving, say you could have mowed next doors lawn for $10... see where this is going?
Email Me [email protected]
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4295
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:36:00 -
[98] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:As I posted, Cost is NOT ISK cost. It is time cost, ISK cost, Skill Cost, Asset Cost and Effectiveness Cost. Think of it thi way. A burger cost say 2 dollars. But if you drive there to get there is the fuel cost (fitting). Then there is the cost of your driving lessons so you can actually drive a car to gt there (skills). Then there is the time cost, what else could you have done while driving, say you could have mowed next doors lawn for $10... see where this is going?
But no cost should allow a class to be straight up superior. If the cost is too high, then we nerf the cost. Cost is not an excuse to avoid nerfing a horribly OP class.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2842
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:37:00 -
[99] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:As I posted, Cost is NOT ISK cost. It is time cost, ISK cost, Skill Cost, Asset Cost and Effectiveness Cost. Think of it thi way. A burger cost say 2 dollars. But if you drive there to get there is the fuel cost (fitting). Then there is the cost of your driving lessons so you can actually drive a car to gt there (skills). Then there is the time cost, what else could you have done while driving, say you could have mowed next doors lawn for $10... see where this is going? But no cost should allow a class to be straight up superior. If the cost is too high, then we nerf the cost. Cost is not an excuse to avoid nerfing a horribly OP class.
Define what you mean by OP. SO I can address it.
Email Me [email protected]
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4295
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:39:00 -
[100] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Define what you mean by OP. SO I can address it.
No effective risk of death.
Also, welcome back, Judge. :)
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14730
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:40:00 -
[101] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote:ADS finally dropped down to reality from being the Death Gods of Dust514. ISK was/is being farmed and SP was around Logi level, they are not, and shouldn't be balancing factors. This game is a FPS.
The only thing that ever made Incubus really stand out was its AV potential, which it no longer has. The real problem stems from infantry wanting to down vehicles in a single clip all by themselves, never stopping to realize that they will always outnumber vehicles, and have multiple options for altering their method of attack where vehicles will always be stuck in similar attack patterns. Missiles on Pythons were a problem because they were good at everyhing and bad at nothing, on a platform that takes no bonus damage from virtually any AV weapons, while maintaining similar tank as the slower, less agile armored Incubus, which also conveniently sports a more pronounced weak spot.
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2847
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:43:00 -
[102] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Define what you mean by OP. SO I can address it. No effective risk of death. Also, welcome back, Judge. :)
Thanks for the welcome. I genuinely appreciate it.... that said... gloves on mate. This is ADS turf.. and you are standing on it.
Email Me [email protected]
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
2045
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:49:00 -
[103] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Define what you mean by OP. SO I can address it. No effective risk of death. Also, welcome back, Judge. :)
You see now this is where I know you are wrong.
Now dont get me wrong, the rate of fire on turrets was a little too high in the past, more so on the small railgun incubus than anywhere else and I also understand that pilot stacking was causing a lot of trouble too.
That being said ADS`s DID die before the nerfs, they were always killable - it was only swarms that needed some help and to be honest I think we helped swarms TOO much but that's just my own opinion.
The thing right now is that - the ADS skill is not really worth its SP investment. You could argue the case for the Python but you certainly cannot argue that for the Incubus as Darth recently pointed out with his video.
You see we need balance for all parties but something often overlooked that judge has pointed out here is - the roles viability and the overall cost of that role. So that means all of the time and skill points before hand.
Not to mention the fact that the ADS is rewarded far less than pretty much any other role on the battlefield! And as much as I love the idea of in 1.9 CCP giving rewards to mobile CRU`s this is just going to be another blow against the ADS as a standrd dropship will suit that role a lot better while providing a lot more end of battle WP and thus ISK.
"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones"
"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4296
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 19:49:00 -
[104] - Quote
*puts on bucket helmet*
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Assault Swarm Launcher
Caldari State
269
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 20:00:00 -
[105] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Define what you mean by OP. SO I can address it. No effective risk of death. Also, welcome back, Judge. :) Thanks for the welcome. I genuinely appreciate it.... that said... gloves on mate. This is ADS turf.. and you are standing on it.
That escalated quickly.
"Chances are I'm going to kill you or replace you with something new..."
-CCP Logibro
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
1844
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 20:14:00 -
[106] - Quote
Assault Swarm Launcher wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Define what you mean by OP. SO I can address it. No effective risk of death. Also, welcome back, Judge. :) Thanks for the welcome. I genuinely appreciate it.... that said... gloves on mate. This is ADS turf.. and you are standing on it. That escalated quickly.
Welcome to my world.....
*Waves to both Judge and Soraya*
CPM 1 member
CEO of DUST University
Vist dustcpm.com
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4296
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 20:17:00 -
[107] - Quote
Judge told me over Skype too to prepare for a roasting on epic proportions. (Okay, I embellished that description.) I'm excited. He went to go play DUST, maybe he's getting a video ready. o_o
Honest to God, if there's a magic middle ground that both ADS pilots and AV can live with, I'm all for it.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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ReGnYuM LEGENDof DEI
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 20:27:00 -
[108] - Quote
Soraya Xel I got your back. I find Dust 514 10x more enjoyable, with the ADS re-balance.
Judge can eat D^ck for all I care. |
DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14730
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Posted - 2014.10.20 20:34:00 -
[109] - Quote
ReGnYuM LEGENDof DEI wrote:Soraya Xel I got your back. I find Dust 514 10x more enjoyable, with the ADS re-balance.
Judge can eat D^ck for all I care.
If you had things your way, rifles would be AV
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
75
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 20:48:00 -
[110] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted. Thanks for the response Judge, you're literally the one player who's input I have any real respect for anymore. Not to say others don't deserve to be heard or anything, it's just you were always the voice of reason for us dedicated pilots who are few and far between, once you weed out the wannabes. Honestly, when I heard you stepped away from the game, I was happy for you. Then I heard it was for family reasons, and was less happy for you. I really hope that clears up for you guys, and that whatever game you choose to pour you focus into, you do well in. You will always be one of the greatest assets to us pilots, qnd if CCP / CPM can't see that, **** em. I put 3 weeks into research. Charts, Analysis....All was supplied. Are you aware that some people actually think in a game with monetary rewards and asset cost that a 35 KDR vs a 4 KDR is actually an indication of imbalance! Anyone who cannot understand the flaw here needs to own up to skipping class. isk balancing is a terrible terrible idea.
Actually its a great idea, but its generally thought of in a backwards way. KDR should not be higher for more ISK used, KDR should be largely even for any single unit. What should happen is ISK cost of assets needs to be reduced for things that cant realistically be used long term with the KDR they have (which, again, should be largely even no matter what you are looking at) |
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Morathi III
Pro Hic Immortalis
241
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Posted - 2014.10.20 20:52:00 -
[111] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. One commando. From huge ranges. With no aim required by them, and high skill and sp required by the pilot. We always knew infantry would ruin vehicle play, it's just sad to see it finally happened
-First you said you will never be back on this game after CCP go on computer with legion
-I still see 3 ads on each side in PC and 0 assault dropsuit
-Its a FPS so vehicule ruining infantry gameplay before this path
-I still see good ADS result like 15-2, not like every ADS pilot with their 40-0 the previous patch and thinked they where good
-since close beta DustFiend is only good at whining like a woman nothing more XD, never saw something positive from you .... An you are still... There! Funny , no?
None of you have thinked about the poor infantry thst cant do nothing against you so you can kill them without they can defend themselves, you will say they can switch to AV, i will say you can switch on the ground when to many Aits fair, honest and legit now go whining elsewhere im tired of your lack of logic already
French Canadian Scrubs scout
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Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
75
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 20:57:00 -
[112] - Quote
Morathi III wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. One commando. From huge ranges. With no aim required by them, and high skill and sp required by the pilot. We always knew infantry would ruin vehicle play, it's just sad to see it finally happened -First you said you will never be back on this game after CCP go on computer with legion -I still see 3 ads on each side in PC and 0 assault dropsuit -Its a FPS so vehicule ruining infantry gameplay before this path -I still see good ADS result like 15-2, not like every ADS pilot with their 40-0 the previous patch and thinked they where good -since close beta DustFiend is only good at whining like a woman nothing more XD, never saw something positive from you .... An you are still... There! Funny , no? None of you have thinked about the poor infantry thst cant do nothing against you so you can kill them without they can defend themselves, you will say they can switch to AV, i will say you can switch on the ground when to many Aits fair, honest and legit now go whining elsewhere im tired of your lack of logic already
Dont be so insulting to women ;d |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13684
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 21:00:00 -
[113] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted.
And this is a core problem with the CPM. If the man who puts the most effort into understanding the role of Dropships, compiles and presents information in a logical manner and is overridden by less qualified individuals the the hopes of vehicles achieving meaningful balance is non existent.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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BONERBOMB TIGBITTIES
THE BONERBOMBS
43
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Posted - 2014.10.20 21:07:00 -
[114] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships?
Judge, what happened man?
Ads is still good but now you cant be john Rambo with a rapid fire missls or rail turret.
I enjoy beverage
I manage beverage
But mostly enjoy beverage
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1124
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 21:08:00 -
[115] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:
The only thing that ever made Incubus really stand out was its AV potential, which it no longer has. The real problem stems from infantry wanting to down vehicles in a single clip all by themselves, never stopping to realize that they will always outnumber vehicles, and have multiple options for altering their method of attack where vehicles will always be stuck in similar attack patterns. Missiles on Pythons were a problem because they were good at everyhing and bad at nothing, on a platform that takes no bonus damage from virtually any AV weapons, while maintaining similar tank as the slower, less agile armored Incubus, which also conveniently sports a more pronounced weak spot.
As much as I agree with you with almost everything said, the Incubus is much better to fly for newer pilots. As such there were people, myself included who used to to learn with missiles.
Once I eventually got better at flying while shooting I maxed out my Incubus skill and every single small railgun skill and had a blast killing tanks, dropships and crappy snipers with my Particle Cannon.
Now all I'm left with is a ****** blaster boat that gets three volleyed by unavoidable swarms (Which still don't render at almost any range)
Amarrica!
It's Not Safe to Swim.
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14731
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 21:12:00 -
[116] - Quote
Morathi III wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. One commando. From huge ranges. With no aim required by them, and high skill and sp required by the pilot. We always knew infantry would ruin vehicle play, it's just sad to see it finally happened -First you said you will never be back on this game after CCP go on computer with legion -I still see 3 ads on each side in PC and 0 assault dropsuit -Its a FPS so vehicule ruining infantry gameplay before this path -I still see good ADS result like 15-2, not like every ADS pilot with their 40-0 the previous patch and thinked they where good -since close beta DustFiend is only good at whining like a woman nothing more XD, never saw something positive from you .... An you are still... There! Funny , no? None of you have thinked about the poor infantry thst cant do nothing against you so you can kill them without they can defend themselves, you will say they can switch to AV, i will say you can switch on the ground when to many Aits fair, honest and legit now go whining elsewhere im tired of your lack of logic already
Aw, you're just an adorable little guy, aren't you? Here's some milk, go watch some cartoons while the grown ups talk, ok? Thank you :)
Also, lol @ "too many AV" in a game thats actively pushing for solo AV dominance, yet retains a vehicle cap. Just because you lack the ability to grasp logic when it's presented, doesn't mean there is no logic ;)
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13685
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 21:24:00 -
[117] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
The only thing that ever made Incubus really stand out was its AV potential, which it no longer has. The real problem stems from infantry wanting to down vehicles in a single clip all by themselves, never stopping to realize that they will always outnumber vehicles, and have multiple options for altering their method of attack where vehicles will always be stuck in similar attack patterns. Missiles on Pythons were a problem because they were good at everyhing and bad at nothing, on a platform that takes no bonus damage from virtually any AV weapons, while maintaining similar tank as the slower, less agile armored Incubus, which also conveniently sports a more pronounced weak spot.
As much as I agree with you with almost everything said, the Incubus is much better to fly for newer pilots. As such there were people, myself included who used to to learn with missiles. Once I eventually got better at flying while shooting I maxed out my Incubus skill and every single small railgun skill and had a blast killing tanks, dropships and crappy snipers with my Particle Cannon. Now all I'm left with is a ****** blaster boat that gets three volleyed by unavoidable swarms (Which still don't render at almost any range)
You can't kill HAV with Incubi now.
It's fundamentally impossible unless you opponent is a ******* idiot AND under fire by AV as well. Your guns over heat too fast and any tanker worth his stars will broadside you with half a dozen missiles.
ADS are currently like those those slightly harder to hit targets that zip around the back of air rifle ranges. Do nothing but score me more points.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Morathi III
Pro Hic Immortalis
241
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 21:35:00 -
[118] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Morathi III wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling.
I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. One commando. From huge ranges. With no aim required by them, and high skill and sp required by the pilot. We always knew infantry would ruin vehicle play, it's just sad to see it finally happened -First you said you will never be back on this game after CCP go on computer with legion -I still see 3 ads on each side in PC and 0 assault dropsuit -Its a FPS so vehicule ruining infantry gameplay before this path -I still see good ADS result like 15-2, not like every ADS pilot with their 40-0 the previous patch and thinked they where good -since close beta DustFiend is only good at whining like a woman nothing more XD, never saw something positive from you .... An you are still... There! Funny , no? None of you have thinked about the poor infantry thst cant do nothing against you so you can kill them without they can defend themselves, you will say they can switch to AV, i will say you can switch on the ground when to many Aits fair, honest and legit now go whining elsewhere im tired of your lack of logic already Aw, you're just an adorable little guy, aren't you? Here's some milk, go watch some cartoons while the grown ups talk, ok? Thank you :) Also, lol @ "too many AV" in a game thats actively pushing for solo AV dominance, yet retains a vehicle cap. Just because you lack the ability to grasp logic when it's presented, doesn't mean there is no logic ;)
How many AV to take down an helicopter with machine gun to land troop? One is enough, right? But it is real life stuff so it doesnt count i ageee myself. ADS is here for support troops by bringing them where thwy cant be there without them, suppirt fire from the air even if the ennemy bring one AV its mission accomplish for the pilot , btw one AV will not kill,you just drive away has is supposed to be, also ADS is faster than normal derpship so can be in an area faster than anyone espacially usefull at beginning of a match, ADS is a luxury & support in a match the may need to know how to fight on the ground too. I play with ADS pilot who their mission is to destroy ennemy uplink for all the match, he dont get alot of kill and WP but he help alot, matches are won with that kind of innitiative and are a good exemple of teamwork ADS is support not slayer. So your back apparently, i toughed you get reimboursed , saying CCP was crap?,
French Canadian Scrubs scout
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medomai grey
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
1031
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 21:48:00 -
[119] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:You can't kill HAV with Incubi now.
It's fundamentally impossible unless you opponent is a ******* idiot AND under fire by AV as well. Your guns over heat too fast and any tanker worth his stars will broadside you with half a dozen missiles.
ADS are currently like those those slightly harder to hit targets that zip around the back of air rifle ranges. Do nothing but score me more points. It's just as bad with Pythons. The only way any ADS can kill a tank is with help from AV or another tank.
How to balance cloaks.
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14736
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 00:26:00 -
[120] - Quote
Morathi III wrote:
How many AV to take down an helicopter with machine gun to land troop? One is enough, right? But it is real life stuff so it doesnt count i ageee myself. ADS is here for support troops by bringing them where thwy cant be there without them, suppirt fire from the air even if the ennemy bring one AV its mission accomplish for the pilot , btw one AV will not kill,you just drive away has is supposed to be, also ADS is faster than normal derpship so can be in an area faster than anyone espacially usefull at beginning of a match, ADS is a luxury & support in a match the may need to know how to fight on the ground too. I play with ADS pilot who their mission is to destroy ennemy uplink for all the match, he dont get alot of kill and WP but he help alot, matches are won with that kind of innitiative and are a good exemple of teamwork ADS is support not slayer. So your back apparently, i toughed you get reimboursed , saying CCP was crap?,
My apologies for my trollish response, I was a tad on edge this morning. I don't want to be the one who derails my own thread. Bad habit lol.
First off, no, I am not "back"
I merely poked my head back into the forums again, as I occasionally do when I want some exrra amusement. But, seeing the one thing hat made DUST worth anyhing to me, is dropships. I may troll on Standard Dropships, but thats only borne of a deeply seeded hatred for CCP when it comes to the Logistics Dropship fiasco. The Prometheus, to be specific.
Unless Ratatti comes out and says, "We're finally re-releasing Logistics ships" (potential re branding permitting), I will always be frustrated for thw drove to make standard ships other than throw away coffins for training, trolling, and bried tactival tasks. Logi ships were the troop transport, the exact freaking thing Ratatti tries to explain the standard ship as, is what he seems to want standard ships to be, but without actually giving them any of the stats to make it worthwhile.
On one hand im happy to see that desire for troop transport, butni strongly dislike thenidea of encouraging cheap, effective dropships.
The price is part of the deal. I gladly paid 1.2 million per ship, even though it was all but guaranteed to go up in flames. And I fully understand how absurd that was, and how lower prices are needed. I re downloaded dust on my brohers ps3 and spent 3 million passive SP, checked the new price (330k! a steal), and signed off
I may fly a bit tonight once my brother goes to work, juat ao no one can say "I haven't tested the changes" . I have a fairly inate understanding of dropships after two years of dedicated flying, accounting for my many absences from this game. Just seeing changes on paper is usually enough to give me a clear picture, but I'll give it the ol' college try for giggles.
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4297
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Posted - 2014.10.21 00:34:00 -
[121] - Quote
DUST Fiend, really hoping we can get Logistics Dropships back on the table soon. WP for MCRUs is probably a big plus in making that viable too.
I am not going to touch the other thread. My bucket helmet was not adequate for the thermonuclear drop.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13690
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 00:43:00 -
[122] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:DUST Fiend, really hoping we can get Logistics Dropships back on the table soon. WP for MCRUs is probably a big plus in making that viable too.
I am not going to touch the other thread. My bucket helmet was not adequate for the thermonuclear drop.
I assume you also are talking Marauders and or Enforcers being brought back to the table........right Soraya....... right SORAYA!
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4297
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Posted - 2014.10.21 00:45:00 -
[123] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:I assume you also are talking Marauders and or Enforcers being brought back to the table........right Soraya....... right SORAYA!
I would like to see that too*.
* Provided they're more balanced and blow up appropriately when looked at funny by an AV user.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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