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Assault Dropships: What's The Point?

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Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 74	Posted - 2014.10.20 15:29:00 - [61] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: So yesterday I was playing a game. A guy on the other team was using a python, me and a couple of squadmates were using forge guns. I was up on the roof of one of the little warehouses (building with 4 ladders at each corner with the 4 little humps on top). The python kept coming down and attacking me over and over, literally hovering 10 feet from me for long enough for me to hit it three times with my forge gun. Then he would afterburn/shield boost away and my last shot would hit but not kill him due to the shield boost. He did this over and over again, he was apparently having some issues with aiming because he rarely hit me, but I have no doubt he would have killed me over and over if he could fix his terrible aim. Eventually right before the match ended he just squished me against the side of one of the humps and killed me. If anyone actually believes ADS still arent overpowered when an ADS can hover point blank in front of the unit that is designed to counter it, and tank every shot the guy puts into it, then just fly away scott free... well... if you still think its underpowered, I have news: Its not the ADS, its you. You suck. Every vehicle has this feature: it is entirely the pilot's decision to be killed. You can escape any time and there is little to nothing any infantry can do about it. The only thing that will for sure stop a vehicle is a massive overwhelming alpha strike. Key word: Python. They've always been OP as **** because nothing does bonus damage to shields, and missiles are childs play to use. There's a reason Pythons are the go to ship for most pilots, new and old. The same issue exists for Incubi, Grimsnes, and Myrons. The point is that in a fight between an AV player and a vehicle of any kind, it is 100% the vehicle pilot's fight to lose. There is no way for the AV guy to WIN the fight. They might drive the vehicle behind something or even drive him off the field, but that vehicle is not dead. Dead AV is a result of normal routine gameplay. Dead vehicles are the result of mistakes by the pilot. Its a delicate thing to try to balance though because infantry will always outnumber vehicles, so if you make them easy to solo, suddenly it becomes mathematically impossible to survive the moment they start using teamwork. Also, lmao at ANYONE who can't down a standard dropship on their own terms Why do you think standard dropships are easy to kill? My experience is the same as with the ADS, badly driven ones are free points but well driven ones are invincible. This is from both AV perspective on this character and from driving them on my vehicle alt. And why do you think multiple AV shouldn't be able to steamroll vehicles? AV is the direct in game counter to vehicles. It doesnt matter than "infantry" outnumbers vehicles, there are 16 people on each team. If vehicles are definitively better than infantry it creates an imbalance that cannot be resolved within a single match (in other words: vehicles are overpowered and you should always use them over infantry). AV SHOULD be able to kill vehicles, its the entire purpose of AV.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2832	Posted - 2014.10.20 15:43:00 - [62] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships? Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Grimmiers 664	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:03:00 - [63] - Quote I use it to knock people off of the high ground until av takes me out.
hfderrtgvcd 899	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:05:00 - [64] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships? Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted. was this in private with ccp? I didn't see anything on the forums or any videos. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5029	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:06:00 - [65] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships? Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted. I think the data for the ADS is so overwhelming because matches are filled with solo players that are simply not willing to deal with them. I can't wrap my head around it because they seem so easy to deal with. I don't understand why people feel that they HAVE to kill it if it's in the air. By making them run, you've done your job. In my experience most pilots don't run when they should and I get plenty of ADS kills. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2834	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:11:00 - [66] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships? Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted. was this in private with ccp? I didn't see anything on the forums or any videos. CPM to CPM/CPP feedback. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
RayRay James Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 541	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:30:00 - [67] - Quote Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling. I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. Actually, in this specific example, you're Assault could kill both without issue.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 75	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:32:00 - [68] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling. I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. Actually, in this specific example, you're Assault could kill both without issue. Look guys, thoughtless bullshit!
Haerr Clone Manque 1672	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:33:00 - [69] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships? Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted. I think the data for the ADS is so overwhelming because matches are filled with solo players that are simply not willing to deal with them. I can't wrap my head around it because they seem so easy to deal with. I don't understand why people feel that they HAVE to kill it if it's in the air. By making them run, you've done your job. In my experience most pilots don't run when they should and I get plenty of ADS kills. The one thing I do not get about people who simply insist on killing vehicles, as opposed to making them useless (which in my opinion is better as one vehicle pilot hiding in his vehicle really is one less enemy), is that they simply refuse to cooperate with others and then get furious when the vehicle escapes... If you absolutely need to kill a DS you can at least be smart about it, get a AV buddy and do NOT flash your AV by shooting at LAVs or Turrets, wait until the vehicle is in a position which it cannot easily escape from (or you are in its escape path) and both you and your mate have a shot (or lock-on) before firing. Though a lot would still say that a forge gun pair in a LAV is the go to vehicle hunter standard, the Swarms are pretty damn strong atm. Haerr's huge list of wish for 1.9 - 1.10: Fix mouse support.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5031	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:40:00 - [70] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: RayRay James wrote: Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling. I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. Actually, in this specific example, you're Assault could kill both without issue. Look guys, thoughtless bullshit! Taking on 2 commandos with dual swarm launchers would be very easy with an assault suit. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.

Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 75	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:50:00 - [71] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: RayRay James wrote: Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling. I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. Actually, in this specific example, you're Assault could kill both without issue. Look guys, thoughtless bullshit! Taking on 2 commandos with dual swarm launchers would be very easy with an assault suit. You guys are talking about two different scenarios. You are talking about a commandos using 2 swarm launchers, and Atiim is talking about fighting 2 commandos who have anti infantry light weapons equipped.
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14727	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:06:00 - [72] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships? Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted. Thanks for the response Judge, you're literally the one player who's input I have any real respect for anymore. Not to say others don't deserve to be heard or anything, it's just you were always the voice of reason for us dedicated pilots who are few and far between, once you weed out the wannabes. Honestly, when I heard you stepped away from the game, I was happy for you. Then I heard it was for family reasons, and was less happy for you. I really hope that clears up for you guys, and that whatever game you choose to pour you focus into, you do well in. You will always be one of the greatest assets to us pilots, qnd if CCP / CPM can't see that, ** em. Ten Year Plan (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+**
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5033	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:09:00 - [73] - Quote I'd agree with Soraya and others if the game was meant to be played solo. But it's not. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
RayRay James Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 544	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:16:00 - [74] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Look guys, thoughtless bullshit! Taking on 2 commandos with dual swarm launchers would be very easy with an assault suit. You guys are talking about two different scenarios. You are talking about a commandos using 2 swarm launchers, and Atiim is talking about fighting 2 commandos who have anti infantry light weapons equipped. Atiim never made that clarification. The original post was about dual-swarm commandos, Atiim responded about Commandos w/o clarifying. It was that lack of clarification that lead me to believe the same scenario existed in both comments. But if it's easier for you to be a pedantic prick, by all means, go ahead an continue insulting people on the internet. You'll feel better for it.
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14727	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:20:00 - [75] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Look guys, thoughtless bullshit! Taking on 2 commandos with dual swarm launchers would be very easy with an assault suit. You guys are talking about two different scenarios. You are talking about a commandos using 2 swarm launchers, and Atiim is talking about fighting 2 commandos who have anti infantry light weapons equipped. Atiim never made that clarification. The original post was about dual-swarm commandos, Atiim responded about Commandos w/o clarifying. It was that lack of clarification that lead me to believe the same scenario existed in both comments. But if it's easier for you to be a pedantic prick, by all means, go ahead an continue insulting people on the internet. You'll feel better for it. Anyone who properly uses the word 'pedantic' deserves no less than 10 likes for their trouble. Just sayin' Ten Year Plan (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 75	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:25:00 - [76] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Look guys, thoughtless bullshit! Taking on 2 commandos with dual swarm launchers would be very easy with an assault suit. You guys are talking about two different scenarios. You are talking about a commandos using 2 swarm launchers, and Atiim is talking about fighting 2 commandos who have anti infantry light weapons equipped. Atiim never made that clarification. The original post was about dual-swarm commandos, Atiim responded about Commandos w/o clarifying. It was that lack of clarification that lead me to believe the same scenario existed in both comments. But if it's easier for you to be a pedantic prick, by all means, go ahead an continue insulting people on the internet. You'll feel better for it. Just read what the guy said and apply 5 seconds of thought to it. If hes really talking about 2 double swarm commandos do you think hes saying they have a chance to mellee him to death? Clearly not. So with my brain organs I deduce he means 2 commandos with a non suicide AV fit (something with a rifle + swarm or some other combo). Your reply was thoughtless, why reply to a post you arent even bothering to fully understand? But I do love insulting people on the internet, Im hoping to win a medal someday.
Atiim 13091	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:41:00 - [77] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling. I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. Actually, in this specific example, you're Assault could kill both without issue. Back when I was in HvLP there were two other Commandos in my corp, Lynn Beck & Vlad. Whenever we'd squad up not a single thing we looked at would survive. Not Scouts, Not Tanks, not even Sentinels stood a chance. If you think you could 2 of us than you're delusional. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
RayRay James Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 548	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:41:00 - [78] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: RayRay James wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Look guys, thoughtless bullshit! Taking on 2 commandos with dual swarm launchers would be very easy with an assault suit. You guys are talking about two different scenarios. You are talking about a commandos using 2 swarm launchers, and Atiim is talking about fighting 2 commandos who have anti infantry light weapons equipped. Atiim never made that clarification. The original post was about dual-swarm commandos, Atiim responded about Commandos w/o clarifying. It was that lack of clarification that lead me to believe the same scenario existed in both comments. But if it's easier for you to be a pedantic prick, by all means, go ahead an continue insulting people on the internet. You'll feel better for it. Anyone who properly uses the word 'pedantic' deserves no less than 10 likes for their trouble. Just sayin' Thanks, I try. 9 more votes to go
RayRay James Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 549	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:50:00 - [79] - Quote Atiim wrote: RayRay James wrote: Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling. I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. Actually, in this specific example, you're Assault could kill both without issue. Back when I was in HvLP there were two other Commandos in my corp, Lynn Beck & Vlad. Whenever we'd squad up not a single thing we looked at would survive. Not Scouts, Not Tanks, not even Sentinels stood a chance. If you think you could 2 of us than you're delusional. Apparently (and as others have pointed out) I was mistaken in what you meant. The scenario originally posed was 2 Dual-Swarm commandos, to which I responded that your Assault should be able to handle 2 AV only commandos without issue. I never meant that your single Assault should be able to take out 2 commandos when they are fit with both Infantry and AV weapons.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2211	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:55:00 - [80] - Quote Atiim wrote: Killing People High-Speed Transport Anti-Python (Incubus) Kamikaze (Incubus vs Python) They've still got their uses. Do you even pilot? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2215	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:56:00 - [81] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling. I wish my Assault suit could take on 2 Commandos head-on. Sadly it cannot, as I'll be obliterated due to the high DPS of their Commandos being focused directly at me. I don't see why your Dropship should be any different. One commando. From huge ranges. With no aim required by them, and high skill and sp required by the pilot. We always knew infantry would ruin vehicle play, it's just sad to see it finally happened It's been happening for a long time. Delta was the final nail in the coffin for the ADS. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2215	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:57:00 - [82] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: We always knew infantry would ruin vehicle play, it's just sad to see it finally happened Spkr, is that you? I don't alt post. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2215	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:58:00 - [83] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: We always knew infantry would ruin vehicle play, it's just sad to see it finally happened Spkr, is that you? You know it's a dark day when spkr was right Pilots have always been right. When the TAC AR was proven to be on par with large blasters, infantry thought it was fine. When 7000 damage was coming out of swarm tubes, infantry thought it was fine. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2215	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:59:00 - [84] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Denchlad 7 wrote: Dust Fiend? Hes alive? Jesus that was a long hibernation lol. But OT, theyre nowhere near as good as they used to be, but still good if used situationally, rather than all the time like I used to. As Atiim said, a light rail buff would be more than welcome. Incubus was never difficult to kill though. Without the RoF I see no way to fight double swarm commandos, instead the only option would be to hug the ceiling. As far as I am concerned, double swarm commandos have EVERY right to absolutely wreck vehicles, and you have no rights to complain about it. They have absolutely no way of defending themselves from infantry other than melee, which is useless. And ADS still have a use, just because that use isn't "murder-**** infantry" doesn't mean that they are somehow worthless. Get gud. Their own fault for not equipping a rifle. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2215	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:02:00 - [85] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Vehicles have no point. And you have CCP to thank for that, not infantry. No, infantry is to thank for constantly having vehicles nerfed. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Atiim 13092	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:39:00 - [86] - Quote RayRay James wrote: The scenario originally posed was 2 Dual-Swarm commandos, to which I responded that your Assault should be able to handle 2 AV only commandos without issue. I never meant that your single Assault should be able to take out 2 commandos when they are fit with both Infantry and AV weapons. Sorry, I should've worded that better to avoid confusion. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2838	Posted - 2014.10.20 18:41:00 - [87] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships? Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted. Thanks for the response Judge, you're literally the one player who's input I have any real respect for anymore. Not to say others don't deserve to be heard or anything, it's just you were always the voice of reason for us dedicated pilots who are few and far between, once you weed out the wannabes. Honestly, when I heard you stepped away from the game, I was happy for you. Then I heard it was for family reasons, and was less happy for you. I really hope that clears up for you guys, and that whatever game you choose to pour you focus into, you do well in. You will always be one of the greatest assets to us pilots, qnd if CCP / CPM can't see that, **** em. I put 3 weeks into research. Charts, Analysis.... I G N O R E D. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
hfderrtgvcd 901	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:04:00 - [88] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So, with Assault Dropships neutered, basic ships buffed for cheap easy suicides, and effortless AV repeatedly buffed, can someone please enlighten me as to what exactly the purpose is of Assault Dropships? Judge, what happened man? Simple. My advice was overridden. My data dismissed. My opposition was vocal and noted. Thanks for the response Judge, you're literally the one player who's input I have any real respect for anymore. Not to say others don't deserve to be heard or anything, it's just you were always the voice of reason for us dedicated pilots who are few and far between, once you weed out the wannabes. Honestly, when I heard you stepped away from the game, I was happy for you. Then I heard it was for family reasons, and was less happy for you. I really hope that clears up for you guys, and that whatever game you choose to pour you focus into, you do well in. You will always be one of the greatest assets to us pilots, qnd if CCP / CPM can't see that, **** em. I put 3 weeks into research. Charts, Analysis....All was supplied. Are you aware that some people actually think in a game with monetary rewards and asset cost that a 35 KDR vs a 4 KDR is actually an indication of imbalance! Anyone who cannot understand the flaw here needs to own up to skipping class. isk balancing is a terrible terrible idea. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2839	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:06:00 - [89] - Quote its not ISK balance. We are talking about P and L Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14729	Posted - 2014.10.20 19:12:00 - [90] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: its not ISK balance. We are talking about P and L I'll go ahead and admit it: you lost me on this. Could you elaborate a little? I have the dumb. Ten Year Plan (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+



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