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SCRAMBLER RIFLE HEAT REDUCTION?

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Y-BLOCK BioCyberDevelopment 23	Posted - 2014.10.10 17:39:00 - [1] - Quote Will there be any heat reduction for the semi-auto Scrambler Rifle any time soon? Now that You've Tasted my Mutton.. How do you Like it!?!
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 446	Posted - 2014.10.10 17:48:00 - [2] - Quote Just use the TacAR. Its in a way better place than the ScR right now. I've given up on the Scrambler, turbo faggots got it broken.
Atiim 12857	Posted - 2014.10.10 17:58:00 - [3] - Quote How much damage can they get off before overheating? The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1909	Posted - 2014.10.10 18:09:00 - [4] - Quote Atiim wrote: How much damage can they get off before overheating? At AmAssault level 3, I can go from 45 shots to 29 shots, on average. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
gauntlet44 LbowDeep Heaven84 Devils General Tso's Alliance 147	Posted - 2014.10.10 18:12:00 - [5] - Quote enough for an assist but not enough for a kill i too have started putting my scramblers back in the closet. mostly for losing 1v1 when i did not previously i wish i could WOW you with the math of it, but alas i cannot. also play as strangeland stranger, larlac theest, gauntlett5487, and balacs sixkin
Y-BLOCK BioCyberDevelopment 23	Posted - 2014.10.10 19:13:00 - [6] - Quote Atiim wrote: How much damage can they get off before overheating? I am skilled to level 5 in both Amaar Assault & Scrambler Rifle, but can only get 18 to 20 rounds off before overheating. Before Delta I was firing at the very least 27 rounds off before over heating, and at that time I was only skilled to level 4 in Amaar Assault! Now that You've Tasted my Mutton.. How do you Like it!?!
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 711	Posted - 2014.10.10 20:29:00 - [7] - Quote Y-BLOCK wrote: Atiim wrote: How much damage can they get off before overheating? I am skilled to level 5 in both Amaar Assault & Scrambler Rifle, but can only get 18 to 20 rounds off before overheating. Before Delta I was firing at the very least 27 rounds off before over heating, and at that time I was only skilled to level 4 in Amaar Assault! No human could get more than 25. I managed 25 rarely but 24 was my average. About 19 shots now with Amarr Assault 5 Scrambler Rifle 5. The Connoisseur of Weapons. 19/19 L5 P1. "GET BACK HERE YOU SCRUB" - Lorelei Zee 2014
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 448	Posted - 2014.10.10 20:44:00 - [8] - Quote Atiim wrote: How much damage can they get off before overheating? Without any Amarr Assault skills. 14-15 shots, or about 900-1000 damage depending on how fast you can fire and the tier of the rifle. Honestly, getting a kill on anything other than starter fits is unnecessarily difficult like this. With Amarr Assault to V. 18-19 shots, or about 1200-1300 damage. Again depending on how fast you can fire, and their tier of the rifle. Enough to kill, but an Assault suit shouldn't be needed to make a weapon viable against anything but a starter fit. I've completely stopped using the ScR. TacAR is just so much better, even with Amassault to 5.
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 35	Posted - 2014.10.10 21:21:00 - [9] - Quote At Operation 4 on my scout I can usually volley down most mediums and will drop many heavies to roughly half armour before I overheat/switch fast enough to my sidearm. I honestly don't know what people are complaining about for the standard ScR. The assault is terrible, but the regular ScR is still better than the TacAR for what it does: still more accurate and more versatile, though the damage profile is worse. Oh, and my AR skills are Op 5, Sharpshooter 3, so actually better than the ScR. Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 448	Posted - 2014.10.10 21:54:00 - [10] - Quote Halla Murr wrote: At Operation 4 on my scout I can usually volley down most mediums and will drop many heavies to roughly half armour before I overheat/switch fast enough to my sidearm. I honestly don't know what people are complaining about for the standard ScR. The assault is terrible, but the regular ScR is still better than the TacAR for what it does: still more accurate and more versatile, though the damage profile is worse. Oh, and my AR skills are Op 5, Sharpshooter 3, so actually better than the ScR. On an Amarr Assault, the suit that is meant to the best suit to use a Scrambler Rifle on, without question. A suit that I when I use, I should always choose the ScR over the TacAR, without even having to think about it. On this suit, I would rather use the TacAR because: GÇóIts easier to fit. Even with Fitting Optimization V on the ScR, the Duvolle is easier to fit. GÇóIt does more damage before I have to stop firing, something the Amarr Assault skill should switch around completely, and by a wide margin. GÇóIt has a better damage profile. It just does. I don't want to hear "oh its just more specialized". Yeah, its specialized, but more armor damage is just better, and we both know it. GÇóBetter Hipfire. I don't think I need to explain the virtues of better Hipfire accuracy in a game where 90% of the combat takes place within 25m. GÇóWith Sharpshooter, the kick is the same, if not better. And with all the point I won't be spending on ScR fitting Optimization, I can max this skill no problem. GÇóIMO, the extra damage on the TacAR outweighs the extra range on the ScR. Like I pointed out earlier, 90% of the combat in this games happens at less than 25m, so damage is better. IMO, at least. The one real benefit the ScR is its charge function, but now that you can only pull of 1-2 extra shots after a charge shot the volley attack is severely gimped as well, and only allows about 450 damage before overheat. Which brings me to my next point... GÇóReloading is better than overheating. It takes less time, it allows jumping, switching weapons, sprinting away, and doesn't cause the user any damage. I'd rather reload any day than overheat. Literally he only reason to use the ScR over the TacAR nowadays is to save cash. But there are better ways to save cash...

Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 248	Posted - 2014.10.10 23:45:00 - [11] - Quote I can't agree with every point Fizzer, but I can agree with quite a few. ScR is in a bad spot right now. Although to be honest -- I'm happier now than before delta. The autofire controller spam ruined everyone's day...

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8563	Posted - 2014.10.11 00:27:00 - [12] - Quote It's enterily possible "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1063	Posted - 2014.10.11 00:34:00 - [13] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Just use the TacAR. Its in a way better place than the ScR right now. I've given up on the Scrambler, turbo faggots got it broken. Yea even AScR is better and that even sucks Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5697	Posted - 2014.10.11 01:11:00 - [14] - Quote Halla Murr wrote: At Operation 4 on my scout I can usually volley down most mediums and will drop many heavies to roughly half armour before I overheat/switch fast enough to my sidearm. I honestly don't know what people are complaining about for the standard ScR. The assault is terrible, but the regular ScR is still better than the TacAR for what it does: still more accurate and more versatile, though the damage profile is worse. Oh, and my AR skills are Op 5, Sharpshooter 3, so actually better than the ScR. o/ Halla I'd encourage you to give the ASCR another whirl. It's pretty solid now :-) Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Atiim 12864	Posted - 2014.10.11 01:22:00 - [15] - Quote According to CCP Rattati, they're currently reviewing the SCR's reduced heat-sink under the HF Delta: Known Issues thread, which implies that the reduced heat-sink is actually a glitch. If someone could create a video comparing the pre-Delta heat buildup to the current heat build up, the verification of this glitch will happen much faster. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8566	Posted - 2014.10.11 01:45:00 - [16] - Quote If someone just bothers to calculate the old heat build up vs shots fired before and after, and reverse engineer a new heat buildup proposal this should be an easy fix "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2847	Posted - 2014.10.11 01:49:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: If someone just bothers to calculate the old heat build up vs shots fired before and after, and reverse engineer a new heat buildup proposal this should be an easy fix After a charge, I was able to get about 12ish or 15, somewhere in that ballpark. FAs official perv and lech. My dream is to turn 80 and become a dirty old man chasing skirts.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 451	Posted - 2014.10.11 02:39:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: If someone just bothers to calculate the old heat build up vs shots fired before and after, and reverse engineer a new heat buildup proposal this should be an easy fix Problem is, the heat buildup mechanics of the ScR aren't really known by the community. Its pretty vague, and in my opinion, overly complex. I literally cannot give you accurate data. What we do know is that: GÇóIt is affected by time, fire rate, and shots fired. How these affect it, and how much they affect it is pretty much completely unknown. GÇóGenerally, as the weapon is fired faster, it takes more shots to overheat. What I mean by this is that firing at say, 560rpm might allow you to fire off 1 more shot compared to if you were to fire at 520rpm, or something like that. We have no idea why, but we generally think that part of the ScRs heat mechanics right be heat/time, somehow. We really just don't know anything other than "it is firing about 14-15 shots now, and it used to fire about 18-19 shots". In fact, if there is some rhyme or reason to the heat mechanics of the ScR, could you share it with us? And, if it does happen to be something overly complex, like it seems to be, could you please change it to something a bit easier to understand. Preferably something simple like heat per shot buildup that allows exactly 18 shots to be fired before overheating, so that we don't have to continue estimating the efficacy of our weapon. Tl;dr We don't know what is going on, but would like to know, so that we may provide accurate feedback.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 248	Posted - 2014.10.11 02:51:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: If someone just bothers to calculate the old heat build up vs shots fired before and after, and reverse engineer a new heat buildup proposal this should be an easy fix That would be easier if we knew exactly how the mechanic was designed. Is it based on shots fired or time spent firing? What is the cooldown rate (in percent with 100 being overheat) before and after? Is the heat buildup linear (each shot fired is worth x heat) or weighted (each shot fired modifed by current heat levels is worth x heat) Is heat applied after the shot is fired as opposed to when a shot is fired (this would explain how lag could allow someone to shoot more shots when firing faster) Etc...
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1952	Posted - 2014.10.11 03:07:00 - [20] - Quote Gonna go test this again, I am pretty sure I was able to get off the same amount of shots as before using amarr assault with maxed skills. Will post back here if I notice anything out of the ordinary. (Not that I am a pro Amarr player or anything, I just feel I have a keen eye for changes) "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!

Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 452	Posted - 2014.10.11 03:21:00 - [21] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Gonna go test this again, I am pretty sure I was able to get off the same amount of shots as before using amarr assault with maxed skills. Will post back here if I notice anything out of the ordinary. (Not that I am a pro Amarr player or anything, I just feel I have a keen eye for changes) That's what I've noticed too. With Amarr Assault to level 5, it overheats just as fast as it used to without any Amarr Assault skills. This leads me to believe that, somehow, the heat generation of the ScR was increased by about 25%.
Hector Carson BLACK MAGES INC. 24	Posted - 2014.10.11 03:25:00 - [22] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Just use the TacAR. Its in a way better place than the ScR right now. I've given up on the Scrambler, turbo faggots got it broken. just to inform you, thanks to the Turbo faggots TacAR may get nerfed next Death to all
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 453	Posted - 2014.10.11 03:48:00 - [23] - Quote Hector Carson wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Just use the TacAR. Its in a way better place than the ScR right now. I've given up on the Scrambler, turbo faggots got it broken. just to inform you, thanks to the Turbo faggots TacAR may get nerfed next I figured they'd flock to the TacAR. Huh. Well I guess that's what happens when you have a weapon with almost all the advantages that the ScR had and a few it didn't have, but none of the drawbacks, you get a scum magnet. In many ways, the current TarAR is actually a more appealing target for modded controller users than the ScR ever was... Reloads instead of overheating, allowing much better hit and runs. Better Hipfire for a more friendly full-auto experience. More familiar/common RoF, that is much more compatible with modded controllers. Lol. That backfired, huh?
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2014.10.11 05:01:00 - [24] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Problem is, the heat buildup mechanics of the ScR aren't really known by the community. Its pretty vague, and in my opinion, overly complex. I literally cannot give you accurate data. What we do know is that: GÇóIt is affected by time, fire rate, and shots fired. How these affect it, and how much they affect it is pretty much completely unknown. GÇóGenerally, as the weapon is fired faster, it takes more shots to overheat. What I mean by this is that firing at say, 560rpm might allow you to fire off 1 more shot compared to if you were to fire at 520rpm, or something like that. We have no idea why, but we generally think that part of the ScRs heat mechanics right be heat/time, somehow. We really just don't know anything other than "it is firing about 14-15 shots now, and it used to fire about 18-19 shots". In fact, if there is some rhyme or reason to the heat mechanics of the ScR, could you share it with us? And, if it does happen to be something overly complex, like it seems to be, could you please change it to something a bit easier to understand. Preferably something simple like heat per shot buildup that allows exactly 18 shots to be fired before overheating, so that we don't have to continue estimating the efficacy of our weapon. Tl;dr We don't know what is going on, but would like to know, so that we may provide accurate feedback. Fizzer XCIV wrote: That's what I've noticed too. With Amarr Assault to level 5, it overheats just as fast as it used to without any Amarr Assault skills. This leads me to believe that, somehow, the heat generation of the ScR was increased by about 25%. (trimmed quotes a little because bloated quotes are bad) AFAIK, it's been generally accepted that the Scrambler Rifle's heat buildup is actually per second. It also handily explains why firing faster lets you fire more shots before overheating- the heat limit is per second, and not per shot, so firing more shots per second gives the same heat buildup but increased damage output. My best guess is that the heat buildup per second mechanic is also tied to the rate of fire value, and the RoF change is actually what has increased the heat buildup. When considering weapons like the HMG, blaster turrets, and the laser rifle, this actually makes some sense; the catch is that it's pretty much impossible to tell, since the scrambler rifle is the only semi-auto weapon that can consistently overheat partway through a magazine (the Ion pistol doesn't really count, especially due to the auto-seize on charge shot). If I had to take a stab at how to fix the scrambler so it didn't suffer from this increased overheat issue, then I'd say to adjust heat buildup down the same percentage that the RoF was nerfed down. This keeps the heat buildup/RoF relationship the same proportion that it used to be prior to HF Delta.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1943	Posted - 2014.10.11 07:49:00 - [25] - Quote Hector Carson wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Just use the TacAR. Its in a way better place than the ScR right now. I've given up on the Scrambler, turbo faggots got it broken. just to inform you, thanks to the Turbo faggots TacAR may get nerfed next What are you talking about? Very few of us use the TAR right now and I have yet to see someone firing it faster than I can with my mk.1 finger. Now with more evil.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 103	Posted - 2014.10.11 08:06:00 - [26] - Quote Mobius many of these guys are cheating with turbo mouse/controllers it is the reason their choices are tac ar and prev scr. The weapon works fine for me, but I don't expect to mow through someone by holding down my trigger. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD 57	Posted - 2014.10.11 10:17:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: If someone just bothers to calculate the old heat build up vs shots fired before and after, and reverse engineer a new heat buildup proposal this should be an easy fix Change the heat build up to per shot for the SCR. We have been saying this. YES, WE KNOW IT IT NEEDS A CLIENT PATCH TO FIX. it doesn't change the fact that it's the only way to fix it. Even with real guns, semi-auto fire means that you need to control you shots, limiting them to around 2-4 round bursts. That's why semi-auto is great in games. You need to aim to actually get your shots to count, but when they do hit, they hit hard. With the current heat build up mechanic, you get the same heat build up when controlling your shots to a 2-3 round burst as you do if you spam the trigger. NO semi-auto rifle should operate like this. With the current mechanic of the rifle, you see an enemy at a med range, you aim, maybe charge up a shot, and you fire at him. After the first couple shots, he is gong to start evading your fire. With an automatic rifle, that's easy, just follow him with the right stick while holding the trigger. With a semi-auto, you need to re-adjust your aim, predict where he is going to go, and then fire a controlled burst. With the current mechanic you'll get 3 controlled bursts in a gun fight before it overheats on you. That's bullshit, unless he is an untanked scout or a shield heavy assault, he is going to get away. So how do you kill with the SCR? Same situation, except now you have to hit the fire button as fast as you can, firing off twice as many rounds at him, all the while USING THE SAME HAND to track him as he tries to get out of your line of fire. Was that seriously the idea you guys had when you decided to make the SCR a semi-auto rifle? That yea, it had a higher dps, but the only way you could use it was by firing it as if it was an automatic rifle, with the user's trigger finger being the automatic ROF aspect. It is a broken. This is why auto triggers were able to ruin this rifle. The only way it can be fixed is with a well needed client patch. If you don't want to do it that way, give us SCR users a skill under the SCR tree where we can increase the heat cool down by 10% each level. Multiple other rifles have the "Sharp shooter" skill, so adding another skill for us die hard SCR users wouldn't be too much to as for. Adding this skill wouldn't bring back the auto fire controllers, because they would still need to stop shooting for it to take effect.
Y-BLOCK BioCyberDevelopment 24	Posted - 2014.10.11 15:07:00 - [28] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: If someone just bothers to calculate the old heat build up vs shots fired before and after, and reverse engineer a new heat buildup proposal this should be an easy fix Problem is, the heat buildup mechanics of the ScR aren't really known by the community. Its pretty vague, and in my opinion, overly complex. I literally cannot give you accurate data. What we do know is that: GÇóIt is affected by time, fire rate, and shots fired. How these affect it, and how much they affect it is pretty much completely unknown. GÇóGenerally, as the weapon is fired faster, it takes more shots to overheat. What I mean by this is that firing at say, 560rpm might allow you to fire off 1 more shot compared to if you were to fire at 520rpm, or something like that. We have no idea why, but we generally think that part of the ScRs heat mechanics right be heat/time, somehow. We really just don't know anything other than "it is firing about 14-15 shots now, and it used to fire about 18-19 shots". In fact, if there is some rhyme or reason to the heat mechanics of the ScR, could you share it with us? And, if it does happen to be something overly complex, like it seems to be, could you please change it to something a bit easier to understand. Preferably something simple like heat per shot buildup that allows exactly 18 shots to be fired before overheating, so that we don't have to continue estimating the efficacy of our weapon. Tl;dr We don't know what is going on, but would like to know, so that we may provide accurate feedback. Well put!! Now that You've Tasted my Mutton.. How do you Like it!?!
matsumoto yuichi san The Elite Few Inc. The Methodical Alliance 63	Posted - 2014.10.11 15:40:00 - [29] - Quote it all stems from the whole heat / time on a semi auto weapon which just doesn't make sense.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1954	Posted - 2014.10.11 15:56:00 - [30] - Quote Ok guys I did some testing yesterday. Here are my results. Amarr Assault 5 / Scrambler 5 (On a Templar Amarr assault suit 'test bed') Test condition A - Using the weapon under normal circumstances while aiming. 1st attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 26 rounds = total of 19 shots 2nd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 26 rounds = total of 19 shots 3rd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 26 rounds = total of 19 shots Test condition B - Using the weapon without ANY regard for aim and purely going for maximum fire rate. 1st attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 24 rounds = total of 21 shots 2nd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 24 rounds = total of 21 shots 3rd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 24 rounds = total of 21 shots Conclusion - I would be very surprised if you can ever get more than 21 shots off, I swear I used to be able to get about 25 shots off previously. Scrambler 5 - on a NON amarr assault suit (Used Templar logistics which gives no bonus to scrambler overheat) Test condition A - Using the weapon under normal circumstances while aiming. 1st attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 31 rounds = total of 14 shots 2nd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 31 rounds = total of 14 shots 3rd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 31 rounds = total of 14 shots Test condition B - Using the weapon without ANY regard for aim and purely going for maximum fire rate. 1st attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 29 rounds = total of 16 shots 2nd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 29 rounds = total of 16 shots 3rd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 29 rounds = total of 16 shots Conclusion - I think I used to be able to fire about 17 shots under these conditions before. I was also very surprised at how consistent the test results were. It is clear that the scrambler has been nerfed in terms of amount of shots fired. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!

deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1008	Posted - 2014.10.11 16:17:00 - [31] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Ok guys I did some testing yesterday. Here are my results. Amarr Assault 5 / Scrambler 5 (On a Templar Amarr assault suit 'test bed') Test condition A - Using the weapon under normal circumstances while aiming. 1st attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 26 rounds = total of 19 shots 2nd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 26 rounds = total of 19 shots 3rd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 26 rounds = total of 19 shots Test condition B - Using the weapon without ANY regard for aim and purely going for maximum fire rate. 1st attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 24 rounds = total of 21 shots 2nd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 24 rounds = total of 21 shots 3rd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 24 rounds = total of 21 shots Conclusion - I would be very surprised if you can ever get more than 21 shots off, I swear I used to be able to get about 25 shots off previously. Scrambler 5 - on a NON amarr assault suit (Used Templar logistics which gives no bonus to scrambler overheat) Test condition A - Using the weapon under normal circumstances while aiming. 1st attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 31 rounds = total of 14 shots 2nd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 31 rounds = total of 14 shots 3rd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 31 rounds = total of 14 shots Test condition B - Using the weapon without ANY regard for aim and purely going for maximum fire rate. 1st attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 29 rounds = total of 16 shots 2nd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 29 rounds = total of 16 shots 3rd attempt - Started with 45 rounds, after firing left with 29 rounds = total of 16 shots Conclusion - I think I used to be able to fire about 17 shots under these conditions before. I was also very surprised at how consistent the test results were. It is clear that the scrambler has been nerfed in terms of amount of shots fired. The assault suit use to have more of an advantage over non-assault as well.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1346	Posted - 2014.10.11 16:37:00 - [32] - Quote Funny. I actually started up using scr rifles about 3 weeks ago at the time of the tunedown. When they came to dust they felt unusable by me, now they seem to rock. Go figure. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
The Master Race Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.10.11 17:12:00 - [33] - Quote Same here kerosini
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 36	Posted - 2014.10.11 17:32:00 - [34] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: On this suit, I would rather use the TacAR because: GÇóIts easier to fit. Even with Fitting Optimization V on the ScR, the Duvolle is easier to fit. GÇóIt does more damage before I have to stop firing, something the Amarr Assault skill should switch around completely, and by a wide margin. GÇóIt has a better damage profile. It just does. I don't want to hear "oh its just more specialized". Yeah, its specialized, but more armor damage is just better, and we both know it. GÇóBetter Hipfire. I don't think I need to explain the virtues of better Hipfire accuracy in a game where 90% of the combat takes place within 25m. GÇóWith Sharpshooter, the kick is either the same, similar as to be irrelevant, or better. And with all the point I won't be spending on ScR fitting Optimization, I can max this skill no problem. GÇóIMO, the extra damage on the TacAR outweighs the extra range on the ScR. Like I pointed out earlier, 90% of the combat in this games happens at less than 25m, so damage is better. IMO, at least. Easier fitting, yeah, the Amarr weapons have generally higher fitting. I'm not entirely sure why this is necessary for balance. More damage before you stop firing, fair enough, though I must say that I, personally, find the ScR much easier to handle than the TAR by a large degree. That's with Op 4 ScR only, and with Op 5/SS 3 AR. Maybe that's just me. Damage profile, you're not wrong. I have no intention of arguing otherwise. The +20/-20 is rough in the current state of the game - if armour tanking becomes actually balanced (or rather, dual brick tanking becomes less prevalent) then the ScR will have a better time. Changing it to reflect the projectile profile would be interesting. Fizzer XCIV wrote: Without the Amarr Assault, the ScR is ****. There is absolutely no compelling reason to use it rather than the TacAR. Well, as I said it may just be my nebulous feeling on the situation, but using the ScR feels so much more easy than handling the TAR. If you can't apply your higher damage then having more powerful shots is not much of an advantage. Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1945	Posted - 2014.10.11 19:18:00 - [35] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Mobius many of these guys are cheating with turbo mouse/controllers it is the reason their choices are tac ar and prev scr. The weapon works fine for me, but I don't expect to mow through someone by holding down my trigger. I am fully aware of the modded controllers and what they did for the ScR. What I find hard to believe is that the same is happening with the TaR again. The weapon is far from the insta-blap super killer the ScR was (no charge mechanic) and I doubt that a modded controller would make it fire much faster than a person can with their finger. Now with more evil.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 106	Posted - 2014.10.11 19:28:00 - [36] - Quote That is a fair thought, but even if it was throttled perfectly to combat turbo consistency and proficiency can not be overlooked. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 470	Posted - 2014.10.11 19:57:00 - [37] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Mobius many of these guys are cheating with turbo mouse/controllers it is the reason their choices are tac ar and prev scr. The weapon works fine for me, but I don't expect to mow through someone by holding down my trigger. I am fully aware of the modded controllers and what they did for the ScR. What I find hard to believe is that the same is happening with the TaR again. The weapon is far from the insta-blap super killer the ScR was (no charge mechanic) and I doubt that a modded controller would make it fire much faster than a person can with their finger. Most people can't even dream of firing at a constant 600 rpm. 450 constant is about what most people can do. Even the players with the fastest fingers can only fire at 600 for half a second at most. Honestly, by just looking at it, the TacAR is actually a more turbo friendly weapon than the ScR was pre-delta. The simple fact that the gun reloads rather than overheats is enough to warrant the loss in DPS and range. At allows **** players (which is the kind of player to use a turbo) to just spray their 18 rounds without having to worry about the consequences that the ScR would have had. They can then just run away after their huge spray of DPS, and come back. The ScR never allowed this, because overheating stopped the user from taking any kind of offensive or defensive actions. 728 DPS with reload > 840 DPS with overheat
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 106	Posted - 2014.10.11 20:07:00 - [38] - Quote We can't forget the headshot multiplier though which in most cases would eliminate the need to overheat the weapon. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1910	Posted - 2014.10.11 20:56:00 - [39] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: We can't forget the headshot multiplier though which in most cases would eliminate the need to overheat the weapon. Headshot multiplier is no different than other weapons. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 473	Posted - 2014.10.11 21:32:00 - [40] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: We can't forget the headshot multiplier though which in most cases would eliminate the need to overheat the weapon. Headshot multiplier is no different than other weapons. This. I literally cannot stand when people say the ScR has an extra multiplier, even though it has never had any extra bonuses for headshots when compared to the other rifles.. Like, how is it possible to be so misinformed for so long? It has the standard 175% headshot damage that every other rifle has, and its been that way since the weapon was released. It would be nice if it did have the same bonus as the ScP. Stupidly OP, but nice.

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1912	Posted - 2014.10.11 21:57:00 - [41] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: We can't forget the headshot multiplier though which in most cases would eliminate the need to overheat the weapon. Headshot multiplier is no different than other weapons. This. I literally cannot stand when people say the ScR has an extra multiplier, even though it has never had any extra bonuses for headshots when compared to the other rifles.. Like, how is it possible to be so misinformed for so long? It has the standard 175% headshot damage that every other rifle has, and its been that way since the weapon was released. Like, how can someone expect to provide good feedback on a weapon if they don't even know the basic stats of it? It would be nice if it did have the same bonus as the ScP. Stupidly OP, but nice. ScP had the 450% multiplier for ages. I'm guessing non ScR users simply assumed the rifle did too. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 106	Posted - 2014.10.11 22:04:00 - [42] - Quote I got a reading of 180% for the scrR 165% for the AR I am not sure why it reads like that, but that is what I got just now. Hybrid +10% damage bonus to shields. -10% damage penalty to armour laser +20% damage bonus to shields. -20% damage penalty to armour. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 106	Posted - 2014.10.11 22:04:00 - [43] - Quote I got a reading of 180% for the scrR 165% for the AR I am not sure why it reads like that, but that is what I got just now. Hybrid +10% damage bonus to shields. -10% damage penalty to armour laser +20% damage bonus to shields. -20% damage penalty to armour. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3598	Posted - 2014.10.11 22:13:00 - [44] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: I got a reading of 180% for the scrR 165% for the AR I am not sure why it reads like that, but that is what I got just now. Hybrid +10% damage bonus to shields. -10% damage penalty to armour laser +20% damage bonus to shields. -20% damage penalty to armour. base damage +/- shield or armor penalty plus your weapon efficiency modifier (weapon proficiency skill)
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 106	Posted - 2014.10.11 22:20:00 - [45] - Quote The toon has skills in scrR 4 and starter skills only. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 106	Posted - 2014.10.11 22:20:00 - [46] - Quote The toon has skills in scrR 4 and starter skills only. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1961	Posted - 2014.10.11 22:28:00 - [47] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: The toon has skills in scrR 4 and starter skills only. Headshot bonus was most likely giving you the higher readout. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
The Master Race Immortal Guides 106	Posted - 2014.10.11 22:32:00 - [48] - Quote I am not sure what you mean CB... both were headshot readings. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 108	Posted - 2014.10.11 22:32:00 - [49] - Quote I am not sure what you mean CB... both were headshot readings. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 570	Posted - 2014.10.11 23:30:00 - [50] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: If someone just bothers to calculate the old heat build up vs shots fired before and after, and reverse engineer a new heat buildup proposal this should be an easy fix That would be easier if we knew exactly how the mechanic was designed. Is it based on shots fired or time spent firing? What is the cooldown rate (in percent with 100 being overheat) before and after? Is the heat buildup linear (each shot fired is worth x heat) or weighted (each shot fired modifed by current heat levels is worth x heat) Is heat applied after the shot is fired as opposed to when a shot is fired (this would explain how lag could allow someone to shoot more shots when firing faster) Etc... time spent firing. which was a dumb idea in the first place, because it allowed for modded controller to use this flaw to fire more shots. it also makes no sense the heat would not be building up on a per shot basis.

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2532	Posted - 2014.10.12 00:33:00 - [51] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: If someone just bothers to calculate the old heat build up vs shots fired before and after, and reverse engineer a new heat buildup proposal this should be an easy fix After a charge, I was able to get about 12ish or 15, somewhere in that ballpark. Thats actually kind of ridiculous... "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Spectre-M The Generals 869	Posted - 2014.10.12 03:11:00 - [52] - Quote <- first post in months. Wow. They finally nerfed my ScR so hard it's useless. The empress would be disgusted. I'm gonna say this again...for the hundredth time since we began the discussion for balancing it. MAKE HEAT BUILD UP PER SHOT, NOT PER SECOND!!!!! I don't get what's so hard about this idea. This weapon was unjustly nerfed because of a third party variable ( turbo controllers ). This would have solved that issue first before collecting data on its power. Too bad. My whole Amarr RP went down the drain that day. Ps. Sorry Aisha, I'm glad you aren't around to see it laid to rest. Minnmitar in Amarr armor. A Wolf in Sheeps clothing. May the Empress live till she graces my sights.
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD 58	Posted - 2014.10.12 06:31:00 - [53] - Quote Spectre-M wrote: <- first post in months. Wow. They finally nerfed my ScR so hard it's useless. The empress would be disgusted. I'm gonna say this again...for the hundredth time since we began the discussion for balancing it. MAKE HEAT BUILD UP PER SHOT, NOT PER SECOND!!!!! I don't get what's so hard about this idea. This weapon was unjustly nerfed because of a third party variable ( turbo controllers ). This would have solved that issue first before collecting data on its power. Too bad. My whole Amarr RP went down the drain that day. Ps. Sorry Aisha, I'm glad you aren't around to see it laid to rest. Those of us who use the rifle without a turbo controller weren't saying anything, more so not enough were saying **, so they **** up our rifle. I need to now class into another rifle, because it's not worth it anymore.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1746	Posted - 2014.10.12 07:05:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It's enterily possible your my boy blue. i can say i had the most fun on dust getting good with the scrambler rifle. i have a scout suit now because my amarr assault i had to stop useing wich is sad cause i spent so much time building my amarr assault fit. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD 58	Posted - 2014.10.12 22:26:00 - [55] - Quote My fellow SCR users, try the combat rifle. You'll need nano hives as an equipment because of the low ammo, but try it. You''l do as good, if not better then you could with the SCR. It's staggering to think that the SCR was OP when any one of us could go to other semi-auto rifle and it's like we're on easy mode.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1076	Posted - 2014.10.12 22:36:00 - [56] - Quote man- bear pig wrote: My fellow SCR users, try the combat rifle. You'll need nano hives as an equipment because of the low ammo, but try it. You''l do as good, if not better then you could with the SCR. It's staggering to think that the SCR was OP when any one of us could go to other semi-auto rifle and it's like we're on easy mode. CR is a very good weapon Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 110	Posted - 2014.10.12 22:42:00 - [57] - Quote I think that is proof of just how op it was.. he has to settle for the CR lolz New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 110	Posted - 2014.10.12 22:42:00 - [58] - Quote I think that is proof of just how op it was.. he has to settle for the CR lolz New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 159	Posted - 2014.10.12 22:57:00 - [59] - Quote Hilarious blueprint. Do you ever contribute or just waste your time making cheap snide comments all day directed to entice cheap laughs. The scr has had an age old problem. It may have high dps but its drawbacks mean it can't engage multiple people. But more importantly it's large penalty to armour means it does less damage than an assault rifle, to armour, while having more drawbacks. This means one is typically unable to finish off people. Personally I think the scr needs much slower buildup when firing in controlled bursts, it is a precise weapon, not a rapid fire turbo controller weapon, and it should be modified to function with higher dps than other rifles, as it suffers in fitting cost, heat drawbacks, cqc capability due to lack of spray and pray and low armour damage. How can you say the scr is viable when it overheats before it can kill a blueprint heavy or scout.... Heck I've come across more 500 armour blueprint scouts with bolt pistols that are more effective than a scr full proto max skill Amarr assault any day. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 110	Posted - 2014.10.12 23:21:00 - [60] - Quote I always end up contributing, but I try to stick to snide remarks... what can you do? On a serious note calling out exploitation is hardly what I would consider snide. An age old problem since last patch? Disclaimer: I don't use turbo so my results may vary: I find your description is inaccurate remember we can all pick up the weapons right now lol. The weapon functions better than the combat rifle while aiming with 0 recoil in any fire mode it also fires like the AR when hip firing (or at least the BAR) making it one of the most if not the most versatile weapons in the game without a range penalty. As for that horrid weapon profile it give the weapon a headshot multiplier of 202%(rounded down) with proff 5. But I am tired of weapons having any drawbacks also. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.

The Master Race Immortal Guides 110	Posted - 2014.10.12 23:21:00 - [61] - Quote I always end up contributing, but I try to stick to snide remarks... what can you do? On a serious note calling out exploitation is hardly what I would consider snide. An age old problem since last patch? Disclaimer: I don't use turbo so my results may vary: I find your description is inaccurate remember we can all pick up the weapons right now lol. The weapon functions better than the combat rifle while aiming with 0 recoil in any fire mode it also fires like the AR when hip firing (or at least the BAR) making it one of the most if not the most versatile weapons in the game without a range penalty. As for that horrid weapon profile it give the weapon a headshot multiplier of 202%(rounded down) with proff 5. But I am tired of weapons having any drawbacks also. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD 60	Posted - 2014.10.12 23:34:00 - [62] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: I always end up contributing, but I will try to stick to snide remarks... what can you do? On a serious not calling out exploitation is hardly what I would consider snide. An age old problem since last patch? Disclaimer: I don't use turbo so my results may vary: I find your description is inaccurate remember we can all pick up the weapons right now lol. The weapon functions better than the combat rifle while aiming with 0 recoil in any fire mode it also fires like the AR when hip firing (or at least the BAR) making it one of the most if not the most versatile weapons in the game without a range penalty. As for that horrid weapon profile it give the weapon a headshot multiplier of 202%(rounded down) with proff 5. But I am tired of weapons having any drawbacks also. Sure, no recoil, but the overheat limits how many rounds you can shoot with accuracy, compared to the CR that is only limited by the magazine size. The fact that it does operate like an AR when hip fired is because of the broken heat mechanic, which is what we want fixed. the 202% head shot is because of the +20/-20, so after you drop their shield, your lvl 5 proficiency in the rifle goes away, and then the +20/-20 comes into play. So what does it go down to? Is it 202-40-15=147%, or is the math different?
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 110	Posted - 2014.10.12 23:54:00 - [63] - Quote man- bear pig wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: I always end up contributing, but I will try to stick to snide remarks... what can you do? On a serious not calling out exploitation is hardly what I would consider snide. An age old problem since last patch? Disclaimer: I don't use turbo so my results may vary: I find your description is inaccurate remember we can all pick up the weapons right now lol. The weapon functions better than the combat rifle while aiming with 0 recoil in any fire mode it also fires like the AR when hip firing (or at least the BAR) making it one of the most if not the most versatile weapons in the game without a range penalty. As for that horrid weapon profile it give the weapon a headshot multiplier of 202%(rounded down) with proff 5. But I am tired of weapons having any drawbacks also. Sure, no recoil, but the overheat limits how many rounds you can shoot with accuracy, compared to the CR that is only limited by the magazine size. The fact that it does operate like an AR when hip fired is because of the broken heat mechanic, which is what we want fixed. the 202% head shot is because of the +20/-20, so after you drop their shield, your lvl 5 proficiency in the rifle goes away, and then the +20/-20 comes into play. So what does it go down to? Is it 202-40-15=147%, or is the math different? Base it 150% so 120% head shot multiplier once there shields are gone. The shots posted earlier were 16 before over heat with no regard for heat would allow you to do 915 dmg with no headshots to armor alone before you overheat. 1372.8 damage to shields. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 110	Posted - 2014.10.12 23:54:00 - [64] - Quote man- bear pig wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: I always end up contributing, but I will try to stick to snide remarks... what can you do? On a serious not calling out exploitation is hardly what I would consider snide. An age old problem since last patch? Disclaimer: I don't use turbo so my results may vary: I find your description is inaccurate remember we can all pick up the weapons right now lol. The weapon functions better than the combat rifle while aiming with 0 recoil in any fire mode it also fires like the AR when hip firing (or at least the BAR) making it one of the most if not the most versatile weapons in the game without a range penalty. As for that horrid weapon profile it give the weapon a headshot multiplier of 202%(rounded down) with proff 5. But I am tired of weapons having any drawbacks also. Sure, no recoil, but the overheat limits how many rounds you can shoot with accuracy, compared to the CR that is only limited by the magazine size. The fact that it does operate like an AR when hip fired is because of the broken heat mechanic, which is what we want fixed. the 202% head shot is because of the +20/-20, so after you drop their shield, your lvl 5 proficiency in the rifle goes away, and then the +20/-20 comes into play. So what does it go down to? Is it 202-40-15=147%, or is the math different? Base it 150% so 120% head shot multiplier once there shields are gone. The shots posted earlier were 16 before over heat with no regard for heat would allow you to do 915 dmg with no headshots to armor alone before you overheat. 1372.8 damage to shields. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1076	Posted - 2014.10.12 23:58:00 - [65] - Quote Spectre-M wrote: <- first post in months. Wow. They finally nerfed my ScR so hard it's useless. The empress would be disgusted. I'm gonna say this again...for the hundredth time since we began the discussion for balancing it. MAKE HEAT BUILD UP PER SHOT, NOT PER SECOND!!!!! I don't get what's so hard about this idea. This weapon was unjustly nerfed because of a third party variable ( turbo controllers ). This would have solved that issue first before collecting data on its power. Too bad. My whole Amarr RP went down the drain that day. Ps. Sorry Aisha, I'm glad you aren't around to see it laid to rest. Exactly. Now my Am Assault is useless. I can really only use Laser and that inst the most convetional weapon and the Ascr is just bad Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2553	Posted - 2014.10.13 00:34:00 - [66] - Quote I think the ScR is in a good state RN...if we reduce heat build up, damage or RoF should be nerfed as well. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD 60	Posted - 2014.10.13 02:35:00 - [67] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: man- bear pig wrote: Sure, no recoil, but the overheat limits how many rounds you can shoot with accuracy, compared to the CR that is only limited by the magazine size. The fact that it does operate like an AR when hip fired is because of the broken heat mechanic, which is what we want fixed. the 202% head shot is because of the +20/-20, so after you drop their shield, your lvl 5 proficiency in the rifle goes away, and then the +20/-20 comes into play. So what does it go down to? Is it 202-40-15=147%, or is the math different? Base it 150% so 120% head shot multiplier once there shields are gone. The shots posted earlier were 16 before over heat with no regard for heat would allow you to do 915 dmg with no headshots to armor alone before you overheat. 1372.8 damage to shields. How are you getting those numbers? STD, ADV or PRO? Also, how long did it take for the overheat to happen? because the mechanic works over time. When I did it, in a suit with no bonus to overheat, I got 16 shots with 3 seconds to overheat. In game, everyone has both shield and armor. So you have to see what it actually does to a target. We'll take the STD ammar sentinal frame is 360/600 as our base target. That 3 second window is the key, because that time of use is what the heat mechanic is based off of, and what the most limiting factor is. STD SCR: you have 16 shots at 78/52 (+20%/-20%). It would take 5 shots to drop the Sentinels shield, and then it would take 12 to drop his armor. So with only the 16 shots in 3 seconds, the sentinal has 28 armor left. The SCR has overheated, done 50 damage to the user, and has a 5 second cool down before the user can do anything except move, no running. STD RR:27 shots in 3 seconds at a damage of 40/54. (-15%/+15%) So 9 shots and the sentinels shields are gone, 11 shots to bring his armor is done. With the 3 second limitation and including the .3s charge up time, the sentinal is at 60 armor. The RR still has 22 rounds in the clip. STD AR: 40 rounds in 3 seconds, at 33.99/27.81 (+10%/-10%) With that, 11 rounds for his shield, 22 and his armor is down. With 33 shots the sentinal goes down in 2.5 seconds. The AR still has 27 rounds in the clip. STD BAR: 21 rounds(rounded down) in 3 seconds, at 63.932/52.208 (+10%/-10%). 6 rounds for shield, 12 for armor, 18 rounds, 2.52 seconds to drop the sentinal. BAR still has 18 rounds in the clip STD SMG: 50 rounds in 3 seconds at 18.9/23.1, (-10%/+10%) 20 rounds for shield, 26 rounds for armor. 46 rounds drops the sentinel in 2.76 seconds. The SMG has 4 rounds in the clip left. STD HMG: 120 rounds in 3 seconds at 15.3/20.7 (-15%/+15%) 24 rounds for shield, 29 rounds for armor. 53 rounds drops the sentinel in 1.325 seconds. The HMG still has 1447 rounds in the clip, and has only built up 21.2 heat. Please, if I am wrong about the (X%/Y%) of each rifle, let me know and I can adjust the numbers. Regardless, this the the basic math everyone brings up when they talk about the SCR being OP for damage. When you add in its limitations and compare them against the other rifles, it shows more. I didn't factor in the percentage of shots that actually hit, head shots, range, mods, etc because you can't really take that into account unless you get a collection of match data. Sure, numbers up front makes the SCR look strong, but compared to other guns in the same 3 second overheat window it has, it's nothing. I would have done the combat rifle, but idk what the average ROF people can actually put out on it.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 110	Posted - 2014.10.13 03:06:00 - [68] - Quote Good stuff m8. The AR and smg are not landing every shot + range limitations. The RR and CR I think we can all agree are still broken so you can't expect them to make every other weapon broken to match it. I am aware that there are shields and armor lol. I used the pro scrR to get the numbers with weapon profile -/+ 16 shots. I did not calculate the dmg to a target because I am not sure when the profile difference takes effect along with all the other factors. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 110	Posted - 2014.10.13 03:06:00 - [69] - Quote Good stuff m8. The AR and smg are not landing every shot + range limitations. The RR and CR I think we can all agree are still broken so you can't expect them to make every other weapon broken to match it. I am aware that there are shields and armor lol. I used the pro scrR to get the numbers with weapon profile -/+ 16 shots. I did not calculate the dmg to a target because I am not sure when the profile difference takes effect along with all the other factors. I use the scrR on my alt and I don't find any issue with it but my mains assault is AR so that could be the disconnect if people expect game breaking weapons well the scrR isn't it any more and hopefully will not be again you will have to play with the RR and CR until they are fixed. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 163	Posted - 2014.10.13 03:11:00 - [70] - Quote Why the tac ar has the same damage and rate of fire is beyond me. It's like they picked out the best bits of the scr and threw them at the turbo controller users feet, now it's going to get nerfed which will throw off the alternative to the scr play style. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 110	Posted - 2014.10.13 03:18:00 - [71] - Quote The tac has horrid hipfire and even aim dispersion correct? I played with the pro version for a bit on my gal ass but he gets bonuses. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD 60	Posted - 2014.10.13 06:17:00 - [72] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Good stuff m8. The AR and smg are not landing every shot + range limitations. The RR and CR I think we can all agree are still broken so you can't expect them to make every other weapon broken to match it. I am aware that there are shields and armor lol. I used the pro scrR to get the numbers with weapon profile -/+ 16 shots. I did not calculate the dmg to a target because I am not sure when the profile difference takes effect along with all the other factors. I use the scrR on my alt and I don't find any issue with it but my mains assault is AR so that could be the disconnect if people expect game breaking weapons well the scrR isn't it any more and hopefully will not be again you will have to play with the RR and CR until they are fixed. Exactly, no weapon is going to hit every shot, just like the SCR wont. Getting to 16 is impossible with any thought of control. If you use the SCR, then you know the only real time you hit that number is when you turn a corner into a sentinel with an HMG and you say "** it, Id rather blow myself up trying to kill this big * then run and get shot in the ass like a *." Atleast that what I think. What everyone here is saying is that the game breaking aspect of the rifle is the heat build up mechanic. It's a semi auto rifle, as much as I use that ROF in the situation facing an HMG, I shouldn't be able to do that with the rifle. That's why turbo controllers exploited it and that's why not many people use the gun, it doesn't make any sense. Now, they've increased the dispersion so it's not as accurate at hipfire, they add a kick so you won't get 4 rounds out before you need to re-adjust your aim, decreased the ROF which I'm actually ok with, and messed with the heat build up so you reach the overheat faster. Can you seriously say that all that was needed on the rifle? When no other gun has nearly as many negative effects to it. They tried to fix a big issue by ***** up everything that was working, and avoiding the actual problem. Just so we're clear, something was needed. The turbo controller users, with the previous ROF, would be putting out either 35 or 40 CONTROLLED rounds in the 3 second overheat period. The overheat period was actually bigger before too. I can't remember if the ROF was 700 or 800 rpm, so I gave them both.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 111	Posted - 2014.10.13 08:06:00 - [73] - Quote Your not suppose to let the rifle over heat at all, there are a ton of variables you are bummed out because it doesn't do enough dps to burn through a sent in 3 second solo lol. This is not something I would expect from any weapon aside from the bolt pistol lol. The ScrR work for me in fact more so then before for what ever reason and I will continue to have fun with it if it doesn't work for you like I said before there are still broken and exploitable weapons out there pick one up. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD 60	Posted - 2014.10.13 09:09:00 - [74] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Your not suppose to let the rifle over heat at all, there are a ton of variables you are bummed out because it doesn't do enough dps to burn through a sent in 3 second solo lol. This is not something I would expect from any weapon aside from the bolt pistol lol. The ScrR work for me in fact more so then before for what ever reason and I will continue to have fun with it if it doesn't work for you like I said before there are still broken and exploitable weapons out there pick one up. Then please, explain how you use the SCR? You seem to know a trick the rest of us don't, so share. I was using the numbers because you felt the need to point out how much damage it could do in 16 shots, which was irrelevant without context and a comparison.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 111	Posted - 2014.10.13 09:22:00 - [75] - Quote Well if I hit them with a charged shot they normally die with only a few shots after or one shot if I hit them in the head. I took out 2 1/2 people in a fire fight last match would have been 3 but I kept missing and was Rail Rifled down. For having a "charge time" it doesn't leave any room when popping out from cover. In fights where a lot of combat is going on the weapon acts as a sniper rifle finishing off almost anyone with charge. I use the semi auto sometimes when I have a little cover, but not enough to charge the weapon this keeps heat down enough to fire as I pass out and back into my cover. I know right tactics are silly I want to pewpew through them I get it. Notes: I was using a starter fit as my other frontline suit has a AscrR in it. I would take a mil scrR over my proto AR in most scenarios. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD 60	Posted - 2014.10.13 10:18:00 - [76] - Quote Then we at least agree on one thing. The charge shot is the best feature of the rifle. You use the SCR as a med range TAC SR. Ok, I can see where you don't run into problems with the rifle. Using it in any other tactic is where you run into issues. People like myself who used it as our main rifle are seeing it more predominantly. When defending a point, best case is you have a group of 2-3 guarding. Before, I could hold my own with those around me, taking out enemies at a med range while the heavy or scout got close. The issue now is that you can't finish an enemy off, so you're reduced to focusing on taking out the enemies shields, maybe a little armor, so that the rest of the group can finish them off. You can focus on the enemies that have lower health to try and use a charge shot, but that would require a smaller profile to really be of use. Either way you look at it, you're now just a support for the main force, when before you could hold your own on the front line. Using it with a logi class is the best option, as you can provide fire support from a far, and run in with equipment when need be. However, there are better weapons to use with a logi class. RR keep you further out with more consistent fire. CR is the same distance but a more consistent fire. Mass driver is the best option, as you can disperse large groups while causing damage for you main assault group to step in. Which ever you choose, your still not using the assault or the commando classes. Or you are, and you logi support is severely limited. They nerfed my rifle, I knew they were gonna, and I was ok with it. I would have rather taken a decrease in damage compared to what they did. I would have fully accepted a decrease in damage if they were open about the fact that they want to change heat build up and dispersion. All they mentioned was the ROF decrease.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 111	Posted - 2014.10.13 10:45:00 - [77] - Quote I use AR if I am not using side arms and even with all the synergy with AR I get from my suit, sharp shooter, and proff It is still easier to play with most other mil weapons the same hip fire as a AR or BAR with the added ability to charge and no range penalty so its a winner in my book, but I was already use to having to take/keep cover. This is my main and it is cal I often use its starter fit instead of my proto AR fit lol not because it is cheaper, but because its cheaper lol. Until they fix the Charge and recoil on the RR it is easy mode. The CR has so little recoil, such good accuracy, range, and Rate of fire that the damage profile of +15/-15 is outrageous making gameplay with this obviously small caliber weapon easymode; A profile of something like +5/-5 or 0/0 would be much more appropriate and balance the rifle since many stack armor. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD 60	Posted - 2014.10.13 10:59:00 - [78] - Quote I've never played with you, but I think your playing type is the main reason why you don't like using the AR. I may be wrong though. I don't think the problem is with the RR and CR, but with the fact that shields aren't really a viable option for defense as armor. This causes more people to focus on armor, which then makes the RR and CR more effective overall. Both the RR and CR get a bonus to armor damage.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 111	Posted - 2014.10.13 11:36:00 - [79] - Quote What I meant about the AR is I am use to covering because you have to close gaps in order to be effective at range as far as strikes and CQC it isn't bad, but is still only = to many other rifles despite its short coming; Like the dispersion that depending on rng can make you completely miss your target. I am aware of weapon profiles.. it was what my comment was about in part. When it comes to the RR the charge time might as well not be there it is so insignificant and the recoil is progressive so in most cases your target is dead before there is any effect. The CR currently has no downfalls as the dispersion and kick are almost non existent, but that fits a low cal weapon the profile dmg does not however. The RR mimics large cal. weaponry yet it has a lower profile than the CR that is small cal. weaponry to any marksman it is an obvious flaw. The reason for my suggestions the flaws in RR are the mechanics meant to balance it are not effective and the CR is just over powered because of its unfit profile. The Armor type make no difference because it is working as intended you are not meant to have a huge shield pool. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Y-BLOCK BioCyberDevelopment 24	Posted - 2014.10.13 21:32:00 - [80] - Quote Increase the Scrambler Rifle Operation Bonus. I might be mistaken but does not this Cooldown Bonus affect the Heat Build-up? Now that You've Tasted my Mutton.. How do you Like it!?!

hfderrtgvcd 787	Posted - 2014.10.13 21:39:00 - [81] - Quote man- bear pig wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: man- bear pig wrote: Sure, no recoil, but the overheat limits how many rounds you can shoot with accuracy, compared to the CR that is only limited by the magazine size. The fact that it does operate like an AR when hip fired is because of the broken heat mechanic, which is what we want fixed. the 202% head shot is because of the +20/-20, so after you drop their shield, your lvl 5 proficiency in the rifle goes away, and then the +20/-20 comes into play. So what does it go down to? Is it 202-40-15=147%, or is the math different? Base it 150% so 120% head shot multiplier once there shields are gone. The shots posted earlier were 16 before over heat with no regard for heat would allow you to do 915 dmg with no headshots to armor alone before you overheat. 1372.8 damage to shields. How are you getting those numbers? STD, ADV or PRO? Also, how long did it take for the overheat to happen? because the mechanic works over time. When I did it, in a suit with no bonus to overheat, I got 16 shots with 3 seconds to overheat. In game, everyone has both shield and armor. So you have to see what it actually does to a target. We'll take the STD ammar sentinal frame is 360/600 as our base target. That 3 second window is the key, because that time of use is what the heat mechanic is based off of, and what the most limiting factor is. STD SCR: you have 16 shots at 78/52 (+20%/-20%). It would take 5 shots to drop the Sentinels shield, and then it would take 12 to drop his armor. So with only the 16 shots in 3 seconds, the sentinal has 28 armor left. The SCR has overheated, done 50 damage to the user, and has a 5 second cool down before the user can do anything except move, no running. STD RR:27 shots in 3 seconds at a damage of 40/54. (-15%/+15%) So 9 shots and the sentinels shields are gone, 11 shots to bring his armor is done. With the 3 second limitation and including the .3s charge up time, the sentinal is at 60 armor. The RR still has 22 rounds in the clip. STD AR: 40 rounds in 3 seconds, at 33.99/27.81 (+10%/-10%) With that, 11 rounds for his shield, 22 and his armor is down. With 33 shots the sentinal goes down in 2.5 seconds. The AR still has 27 rounds in the clip. STD BAR: 21 rounds(rounded down) in 3 seconds, at 63.932/52.208 (+10%/-10%). 6 rounds for shield, 12 for armor, 18 rounds, 2.52 seconds to drop the sentinal. BAR still has 18 rounds in the clip STD SMG: 50 rounds in 3 seconds at 18.9/23.1, (-10%/+10%) 20 rounds for shield, 26 rounds for armor. 46 rounds drops the sentinel in 2.76 seconds. The SMG has 4 rounds in the clip left. STD HMG: 120 rounds in 3 seconds at 15.3/20.7 (-15%/+15%) 24 rounds for shield, 29 rounds for armor. 53 rounds drops the sentinel in 1.325 seconds. The HMG still has 1447 rounds in the clip, and has only built up 21.2 heat. Please, if I am wrong about the (X%/Y%) of each rifle, let me know and I can adjust the numbers. Regardless, this the the basic math everyone brings up when they talk about the SCR being OP for damage. When you add in its limitations and compare them against the other rifles, it shows more. I didn't factor in the percentage of shots that actually hit, head shots, range, mods, etc because you can't really take that into account unless you get a collection of match data. Sure, numbers up front makes the SCR look strong, but compared to other guns in the same 3 second overheat window it has, it's nothing. I would have done the combat rifle, but idk what the average ROF people can actually put out on it. lol. This is probably the most biased analysis I've ever seen on these forums. You're comparing a ranged weapon that is weak against armor and does poor sustained damage against the suit with the most health and armor in the game. Why don't you do the same thing except against a milita caldari light frame? You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1082	Posted - 2014.10.13 21:56:00 - [82] - Quote Before delta i could get off 16-17 shots. Now i can only get 10-11 Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Y-BLOCK BioCyberDevelopment 24	Posted - 2014.10.13 22:27:00 - [83] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: I think the ScR is in a good state RN...if we reduce heat build up, damage or RoF should be nerfed as well. This discussion arose after Delta only because the ROF reduction, which most avid users of the scrambler rifle like myself supported, affected the heat build up so much so that the weapon seemed to be over-nerfed. Within all the Sticky discussions pre-Delta, the overheat mechanism was never meant to be affected; consequently, it was indeed; therefore, this discussion. Now that You've Tasted my Mutton.. How do you Like it!?!
Y-BLOCK BioCyberDevelopment 24	Posted - 2014.10.13 22:28:00 - [84] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Before delta i could get off 16-17 shots. Now i can only get 10-11 My point Exactly!! Now that You've Tasted my Mutton.. How do you Like it!?!
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD RUST415 70	Posted - 2014.10.14 16:53:00 - [85] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: [quote=man- bear pig][quote=Blueprint For Murder][quote=man- bear pig] lol. This is probably the most biased analysis I've ever seen on these forums. You're comparing a ranged weapon that is weak against armor and does poor sustained damage against the suit with the most health and armor in the game. Why don't you do the same thing except against a milita caldari light frame? You're right, it is Bias, as I didn't want to spend more time working out everything for the other suits. It is the same reason why just posting 1372.8/915 dmg in 16 shots doesn't give the overall picture. I eat Caldari's with the SCR, I actually look for them because I know they don't stand a chance. My whole point was to show that the SCR is on par with the other weapons for damage, not that it was less effective. It will vary depending on the target, Caldari being the more opposite result, but it is not that big of a difference that you can say the SCR does to much damage. If you want to work out the same math with other suits, please go ahead. The damage amounts and ROF for each weapon in 3 seconds is the same, so it's just dividing it with the new targets shield/armor.
7 Djin The Hundred Acre Hood 18	Posted - 2014.10.14 18:44:00 - [86] - Quote The WORST part is that even though it was nerfed because of the turbo fags. I got turbo fagged last night by this one squad anyways repeatedly.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 114	Posted - 2014.10.14 18:48:00 - [87] - Quote I have not noticed it with the SrcR so much, but man that CR it is less then one second and you are dead. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.


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