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Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6595	Posted - 2014.10.02 00:36:00 - [1] - Quote Okay, so back from my little hiatus (I dunno why, maybe because I have a new job and can actually afford my masochistic tendencies). Why was the sniper rifle range changed, exactly..? Game already has a favor toward high ground mechanics; whereas other games give you options (Planetside 2 has jetpacks, Destiny has levitation abilities, Battlefield 2: Special Forces has grappling hooks) Dust 514 you're left with... Well. Dropships, Orbital Strikes, and Sniper Rifles. So, imagine my surprise when I try to counter rampant rooftop gameplay in a domination map with a sniper rifle only to discover that it's got a max range of 350m. Which is literally saying that legitimate sniper play like Grid H-9 to the Outpost is now invalidated. Considering that I was gone and didn't read any of the discussions, I can only imagine it went something like this: CCP: "How about we increase the damage to compensate for the increased TTK that's been going on since 1.8?" Player A: "Waaah, redline snipers." CCP: "How about reduced range?" Player A: "Ship it. **** the consequences." SymbioticFork and other legitimate snipers: "This is the dumbest decision that I could have ever witnessed." I said it at least a dozen times before I left in just about every complaint thread imaginable: Redline sniping is an issue with map design and gamemode progression, it's not the fault of the sniper rifle itself. Sniper Rifles were never a problem during Closed Beta///Crater Lake because there was forward momentum in the game-mode and while I realize that that will never happen because development for Dust 514 is now against our religion, I still think it was a dumb idea to reduce the anti-rooftop counters to Orbital Strikes (now harder due to WP increase) and Dropships without providing something else in return. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16990	Posted - 2014.10.02 00:40:00 - [2] - Quote Uhm with these new rifles roofs are the worst spot to be. Also you are making up wild assumptions of goals as well. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6595	Posted - 2014.10.02 00:48:00 - [3] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Uhm with these new rifles roofs are the worst spot to be. IWS shitting out anecdotal evidence again. Sure, I'd buy that, if you could actually get any sort of coverage on them. See, some of the legitimate snipers would actually use the high ground to snipe the drop-uplink off the roof or even kill people that -aren't- on the very edge. With this range change you might as well just ditch the rifle, grab a forge gun, and don the zoom function on your television. Or, even better, get a television/monitor with a built in crosshair. With the range change there aren't any areas for legitimate snipers to get an edge on the opposition when they take the high ground. It further incentivizes height play and if you actually tried out the sniper rifle in any sort of organized play you'd realize what I'm talking about. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3555	Posted - 2014.10.02 00:55:00 - [4] - Quote Welcome back!!
hfderrtgvcd 603	Posted - 2014.10.02 01:15:00 - [5] - Quote They increased the damage and headshot multiplier significantly but reduced the range to compensate. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6595	Posted - 2014.10.02 01:19:00 - [6] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: They increased the damage and headshot multiplier significantly but reduced the range to compensate. I'd have stuck with the old stats. More worthwhile to have longer range and the ability to suppress units on the rooftops/kill their equipment then to outright kill them and not be able to actively get them off the roof. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9615	Posted - 2014.10.02 01:21:00 - [7] - Quote I remember in Halo 3 you could snipe from one side of the map to the other and not suffer any diminished sniper damage over range. It was hilarious sniping the Hornet pilot out of his seat while I later reign hell down upon unsuspecting Spartans from the top of the mountain-side outpost in Valhalla. LOL On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16991	Posted - 2014.10.02 01:25:00 - [8] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: IWS shitting out anecdotal evidence again. Sure, I'd buy that, if you could actually get any sort of coverage on them. See, some of the legitimate snipers would actually use the high ground to snipe the drop-uplink off the roof or even kill people that -aren't- on the very edge. With this range change you might as well just ditch the rifle, grab a forge gun, and don the zoom function on your television. Or, even better, get a television/monitor with a built in crosshair. Have you even seriously tried the new rifles? I know there are a few snipers currently frustrated with the current ranges still as it makes counter sniping a bit more of a cat mouse and chicken game at that point. Also getting snipers out of the redline wasn't a goal; if it was we be seeing ranges of 250 or less. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16991	Posted - 2014.10.02 01:27:00 - [9] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: They increased the damage and headshot multiplier significantly but reduced the range to compensate. I'd have stuck with the old stats. More worthwhile to have longer range and the ability to suppress units on the rooftops/kill their equipment then to outright kill them and not be able to actively get them off the roof. So you want sniper rifles that cannot kill a heavy with two+ magazines? CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6595	Posted - 2014.10.02 01:32:00 - [10] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: They increased the damage and headshot multiplier significantly but reduced the range to compensate. I'd have stuck with the old stats. More worthwhile to have longer range and the ability to suppress units on the rooftops/kill their equipment then to outright kill them and not be able to actively get them off the roof. So you want sniper rifles that cannot kill a heavy with two+ magazines? Sure. I consider removing the nanohives/drop-uplink and starving him out of ammo more of a priority than outright killing the guy and letting him and his logi support to continue to respawn. If the goal wasn't to kill redline sniping then what was the goal, exactly..? A "trade-off" between damage and range? Why not leave an option for the longer range and reduced damage..? EDIT: There's a lot of advantages to removing the equipment first as it kills their ability to replenish armor/ammo, reduces incoming spawns, and a lot of times they'll never know what's going on or where the rounds are coming from because they aren't receiving damage and thereby getting a directional indicator as to where the damage is coming from. I'd sooner kill off the equipment than do any damage to them (unless I knew they could drop more). { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9618	Posted - 2014.10.02 01:38:00 - [11] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: They increased the damage and headshot multiplier significantly but reduced the range to compensate. I'd have stuck with the old stats. More worthwhile to have longer range and the ability to suppress units on the rooftops/kill their equipment then to outright kill them and not be able to actively get them off the roof. So you want sniper rifles that cannot kill a heavy with two+ magazines? Sure. I consider removing the nanohives/drop-uplink and starving him out of ammo more of a priority than outright killing the guy and letting him and his logi support to continue to respawn. If the goal wasn't to kill redline sniping then what was the goal, exactly..? A "trade-off" between damage and range? Why not leave an option for the longer range and reduced damage..? I'm sorry, but if I ever decided to become a sniper and invest a couple of million SP on those things, then the least I expect is to be able to do is OHK a heavy with a sniper shot to the head with a high-alpha sniper shot. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6596	Posted - 2014.10.02 01:43:00 - [12] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: They increased the damage and headshot multiplier significantly but reduced the range to compensate. I'd have stuck with the old stats. More worthwhile to have longer range and the ability to suppress units on the rooftops/kill their equipment then to outright kill them and not be able to actively get them off the roof. So you want sniper rifles that cannot kill a heavy with two+ magazines? Sure. I consider removing the nanohives/drop-uplink and starving him out of ammo more of a priority than outright killing the guy and letting him and his logi support to continue to respawn. If the goal wasn't to kill redline sniping then what was the goal, exactly..? A "trade-off" between damage and range? Why not leave an option for the longer range and reduced damage..? I'm sorry, but if I ever decided to become a sniper and invest a couple of million SP on those things, then the least I expect to be able to do is OHK a heavy with a sniper shot to the head with a high-alpha sniper shot. Sure, but do so as a -sniper-. An M16 now has longer effective range than a Sniper Rifle in Dust 514. I don't understand why there couldn't have just been a high damage/low range variant added on that could have made everyone happy. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16992	Posted - 2014.10.02 01:58:00 - [13] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Sure, but do so as a -sniper-. An M16 now has longer effective range than a Sniper Rifle in Dust 514. I don't understand why there couldn't have just been a high damage/low range variant added on that could have made everyone happy. An M16 has a longer effective range than every weapon in Dust 514 (and many many many other games) Your point? Also Fiction vs Science Fiction vs Non-fiction. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4552	Posted - 2014.10.02 02:43:00 - [14] - Quote Are you sure you didn't read through the discussion before posting? That was eerily accurate... You can always tell a Millford Minja
Atiim 12650	Posted - 2014.10.02 02:53:00 - [15] - Quote Writing to confirm that practically every dedicated Sniper said that a range nerf would do jack $#!t to prevent redline Snipers, while punishing Tactical and Proactive ones. Unfortunately, Snipers have fallen victim to quid pro quo. Which I find hilarious because when CCP knocked on the Barbershop door with that crap, everyone and their mothers, brothers, and granddaughters rallied against it (including Iron Wolf Saber). Also, inb4 Strawman inb4 Personal Agendas inb4 Association Fallacy inb4 Assumed Premises inb4 Anti-Sniper Extremists The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6598	Posted - 2014.10.02 03:02:00 - [16] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Sure, but do so as a -sniper-. An M16 now has longer effective range than a Sniper Rifle in Dust 514. I don't understand why there couldn't have just been a high damage/low range variant added on that could have made everyone happy. An M16 has a longer effective range than every weapon in Dust 514 (and many many many other games) Your point? Also Fiction vs Science Fiction vs Non-fiction. It was an amusing reference. And please try to combat the actual evidence I provided instead of cherry picking the easiest thing you can respond to because you've yet to say anything that actually provides good reasoning for this change. Seriously, IWS, being a forum troll isn't winning you any points, you're not and never will be The Mittani or Two Step so please stop trying. EDIT: While you're at it, why don't you do something useful for a change and go tell CCP you had this awesome idea for more weapon variants. If this really wasn't about redline sniping it wouldn't be so painfully obvious to assume where CCP Rattati stands on the issue with these - three - posts just from typing in 'redline' in the search bar. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Pure Evil. 1984	Posted - 2014.10.02 03:14:00 - [17] - Quote Welcome back. And since this seems like a good idea. How about, the regular rifles have high damage but reduced range, and the TACTICAL variants have low damage higher range. Cause buffing and nerfing everything THE SAME WAY across EVERY variant solves nothing. What do you think Aeon? PSN Sil4ntChaozz Slowly embracing my inner ninja. Im a decent ghost. And a decent menace. Mk.0, Gk.0, & 'Sever' Scout
Kalante Schiffer YOU GOT OWNED BY A CHRONIC FAPPER 764	Posted - 2014.10.02 03:36:00 - [18] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Uhm with these new rifles roofs are the worst spot to be. IWS shitting out anecdotal evidence again. Sure, I'd buy that, if you could actually get any sort of coverage on them. See, some of the legitimate snipers would actually use the high ground to snipe the drop-uplink off the roof or even kill people that -aren't- on the very edge. With this range change you might as well just ditch the rifle, grab a forge gun, and don the zoom function on your television. Or, even better, get a television/monitor with a built in crosshair. With the range change there aren't any areas for legitimate snipers to get an edge on the opposition when they take the high ground. It further incentivizes height play and if you actually tried out the sniper rifle in any sort of organized play you'd realize what I'm talking about. Thats the Asus VG248QE. Here. Just in case anyone wants to know.
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6599	Posted - 2014.10.02 03:53:00 - [19] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: Welcome back. And since this seems like a good idea. How about, the regular rifles have high damage but reduced range, and the TACTICAL variants have low damage higher range. Cause buffing and nerfing everything THE SAME WAY across EVERY variant solves nothing. What do you think Aeon? Mostly just talking about the sniper rifle, here. Don't really give much ***** about the other rifles at the moment - they seem fine now that the Combat Rifle has it's damage profile re-evaluated. The Sniper Rifle on the other hand -does- need an ultra long range option, even if it is lower damage than what we currently have. That or CCP can sit down and spent a bunch of time giving us jet packs or grappling hooks or something to get up on the rooftops, but we all know that's never going to happen so I don't understand the adversity of having a longer range sniper rifle for any reason other than 'herp derp redline but not redline' arguments. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16992	Posted - 2014.10.02 04:09:00 - [20] - Quote Large Railgun Turret 300m Forge Gun 300m Baseline Sniper 450m M-16 Effective 600m Your quip does little to prove a point of your statement. m-16 has longer range than every weapon in this game. So what? Maybe we should bring in m-16 in the game; make it so that it would do damage m-16s would do against durabide tritanium armor, isogenetic gel ceramic padding and ion shields complete with a defense suit that can detect incomming shots and does its best to try to deflect them in a very similar manner the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure) Also https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176726 Also just because CCP Rattati has numbers and plays the game as much as anyone else here it is still the CPM's job to try to keep his point of views informed, give context to the numbers and his experiences, and keeping on track on making this game better. Letting him change numbers unabated completely would have made him no better that some of your more notoriously bad at balancing devs we have had experienced before. Luckily CCP Rattati does talk to the community and does talk to the CPM. Also it remains ultimately CCP's game. If they want to nerf sniper range they're going to nerf it; and worse thing hurting the counter argument cases if numbers of sales; kills; deaths and usage are proving the changes were doing much more good than harm bringing them much closer to all the other weapons. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked

Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6600	Posted - 2014.10.02 05:43:00 - [21] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Large Railgun Turret 300m Forge Gun 300m Baseline Sniper 450m M-16 Effective 600m Your quip does little to prove a point of your statement. m-16 has longer range than every weapon in this game. So what? Maybe we should bring in m-16 in the game; make it so that it would do damage m-16s would do against durabide tritanium armor, isogenetic gel ceramic padding and ion shields complete with a defense suit that can detect incomming shots and does its best to try to deflect them in a very similar manner the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure) Also https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176726 Also just because CCP Rattati has numbers and plays the game as much as anyone else here it is still the CPM's job to try to keep his point of views informed, give context to the numbers and his experiences, and keeping on track on making this game better. Letting him change numbers unabated completely would have made him no better that some of your more notoriously bad at balancing devs we have had experienced before. Luckily CCP Rattati does talk to the community and does talk to the CPM. Also it remains ultimately CCP's game. If they want to nerf sniper range they're going to nerf it; and worse thing hurting the counter argument cases if numbers of sales; kills; deaths and usage are proving the changes were doing much more good than harm bringing them much closer to all the other weapons. Holy **** you're really beat up over this M16 thing man, did the military touch you as a child? And yet, still nothing that brings a counter argument to needing longer ranges to counter rooftop gameplay and equipment disposal. But feel free to keep quoting random wikipedia topics that have nothing to do with anything if it makes you feel better. EDIT: Here, I'll make it painfully clear since you've still somehow missed it: What is your contradictory viewpoints toward having a sniper rifle variant that retains it's pre-'rebalance' 600m range and -20 damage? { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 425	Posted - 2014.10.02 05:51:00 - [22] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: They increased the damage and headshot multiplier significantly but reduced the range to compensate. I'd have stuck with the old stats. More worthwhile to have longer range and the ability to suppress units on the rooftops/kill their equipment then to outright kill them and not be able to actively get them off the roof. But Aeon, destroy uplinks you say? Why that's just so useless. You know it's all about the kills and capping objectives. Tactical planning means nothing in this game versus just mindlessly throwing suits at the opposition in order to promote "bravery" over "cowardice". Really, where are your priorities? Everyone knows a video game is where you're supposed to show your "manhood". THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6600	Posted - 2014.10.02 06:04:00 - [23] - Quote Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: They increased the damage and headshot multiplier significantly but reduced the range to compensate. I'd have stuck with the old stats. More worthwhile to have longer range and the ability to suppress units on the rooftops/kill their equipment then to outright kill them and not be able to actively get them off the roof. But Aeon, destroy uplinks you say? Why that's just so useless. You know it's all about the kills and capping objectives. Tactical planning means nothing in this game versus just mindlessly throwing suits at the opposition in order to promote "bravery" over "cowardice". Really, where are your priorities? Everyone knows a video game is where you're supposed to show your "manhood". Clearly. That's why Destiny worked out so well, right? Yanno, I remember seeing a BF3 video where a dude was sniping people with a slugshot shotgun from 1200 meters away.... { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
EmperoR AjnaS King and Queens Peacekeepers of High-Sec 0	Posted - 2014.10.02 06:10:00 - [24] - Quote The head shot multiplier is geat man...... 1 shot to kill almost all medium to light suits and good to counter snipe i guess the range nerf will also reduce mcc sniping which is good
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3342	Posted - 2014.10.02 07:59:00 - [25] - Quote If realistic weapon ranges eere a thing we would get epic bitching that made chromosome "we want closer fights, ranges are too long, I can't dodge an HMG and exploit hit detection avoidance because wobble strafing at long range is an idiot move!" Bitching seem like a polite critique.
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6600	Posted - 2014.10.02 08:08:00 - [26] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: If realistic weapon ranges eere a thing we would get epic bitching that made chromosome "we want closer fights, ranges are too long, I can't dodge an HMG and exploit hit detection avoidance because wobble strafing at long range is an idiot move!" Bitching seem like a polite critique. Didn't realize arbitrarily mentioning a real life weapon as a sarcastic conveyance was going to cause so many damned problems. Point is: I'd personally (and I'd imagine others as well) would like a long range weapon. Not a mid-range weapon that kinda sorta feels like a long range weapon except whenever the person knows how far away you are and takes two steps back to negate any incoming damage because Sniper Rifles have no effective/optimal/absolute range. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3342	Posted - 2014.10.02 09:40:00 - [27] - Quote I am going to respond to your post in features and ideas because your statement highlights why we cannot achieve meaningful balance, weapon relevance and decent range usage. The fact that I CAN consistently hit a human size target at 500m with an M-16 makes DUST feel like a slingshot fight. It's why the HMG cannot be made into a suppression weapon, because ranges are so short that making it function that way will only accomplish making it utterly worthless. But if optimal was 600 it would be utterly lethal to 250 but become suppressive at 251-1000 meters because intentionally or not, CCP successfully replicated the firing profile of modern crew served machinegun. The difference between hellish lethality and "suppression" on any weapon that isn't a splash weapon is your engagement ranges.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1855	Posted - 2014.10.02 09:43:00 - [28] - Quote I personally have little opinion on sniper rifles as I barely ever use them and to be honest it seems that peoples opinions are divided on the [Extra damage] trade-off against [Reduced range] thing anyway. What I will say though is that clearing equipment and uplinks from high places is the job of dropships. Specifically the ADS. I do agree though that the problems in this game always seem to stem from the redline. The redline REALLY does need a tweaking regardless of how hard it may or may not be. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1713	Posted - 2014.10.02 09:52:00 - [29] - Quote Welcome back Aeon. The sniper rebalance was born from the fact that as a weapon class, they remained the only weapon to have not been touched in anyway since the game launch. With the sidearm and rifles rebalancing also being done in delta (fairly successfully from the feedback we've got) it would've been somewhat remiss to not look at the snipers as well. There was some serious map and range analysis with the snipers, something that hadn't been done in that level of detail for quite a while. Well known and successful snipers were polled an questioned as to their favourite snipe points and tactics. A large number of such points and tactics had nothing to do redlining either. What was found is that on some of the maps the power projection of snipers from these favoured snipe points was, put simply, excessive. Now, as you, me and virtually everyone else has pointed out, this is more to do with poor map design than anything else but any changes required to fix that will need to be part of a client patch rather than server side. Believe me, such map changes are going to be top of the list if such a chance comes. So a reduction in sniper range was thought, a decent compromise. It forces snipers to come more into the battlefield and give non snipers a chance to counter them with something other than another Thale. To compensate for the range nerf, they were all given a fairly hefty damage increase to keep in line with the increases ehp of suits since the games launch and given a significant headshot multiplier to reward skilful play. Were the changes perfect? Of course not, they were a product of unfortunate compromise. Were they needed? Absolutely. There isn't another class of weapon in the game that was so dominated by one particular varient of that class ie the Thale, than snipers. We need a broader range of varient use than was being seen before delta, in all weapon classes and it's my belief that simply looking at the kill feed in a match post delta, will tell you that delta has achieved that. CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6600	Posted - 2014.10.02 10:02:00 - [30] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Welcome back Aeon. The sniper rebalance was born from the fact that as a weapon class, they remained the only weapon to have not been touched in anyway since the game launch. With the sidearm and rifles rebalancing also being done in delta (fairly successfully from the feedback we've got) it would've been somewhat remiss to not look at the snipers as well. There was some serious map and range analysis with the snipers, something that hadn't been done in that level of detail for quite a while. Well known and successful snipers were polled an questioned as to their favourite snipe points and tactics. A large number of such points and tactics had nothing to do redlining either. What was found is that on some of the maps the power projection of snipers from these favoured snipe points was, put simply, excessive. Now, as you, me and virtually everyone else has pointed out, this is more to do with poor map design than anything else but any changes required to fix that will need to be part of a client patch rather than server side. Believe me, such map changes are going to be top of the list if such a chance comes. So a reduction in sniper range was thought, a decent compromise. It forces snipers to come more into the battlefield and give non snipers a chance to counter them with something other than another Thale. To compensate for the range nerf, they were all given a fairly hefty damage increase to keep in line with the increases ehp of suits since the games launch and given a significant headshot multiplier to reward skilful play. Were the changes perfect? Of course not, they were a product of unfortunate compromise. Were they needed? Absolutely. There isn't another class of weapon in the game that was so dominated by one particular varient of that class ie the Thale, than snipers. We need a broader range of varient use than was being seen before delta, in all weapon classes and it's my belief that simply looking at the kill feed in a match post delta, will tell you that delta has achieved that. Sure, that's all well and good - I'm not disputing that the current sniper rifles didn't immediately fulfill their intended job of being a high damage option at a long range, making them a worthy suppression tool in the right hands. Now, as far as 'hefty damage' increase goes, I'd argue that since the Ishukone Sniper Rifle only received +20 damage as far as I'm aware. The only real trade-off that happened was the increase in headshot damage which I have found to be very appealing. However. While the high damage/low range solution did it's job, there's now a gap in the ultra-long range tactical viability that can no longer be fulfilled in the game that could have been more elegantly handled than cutting off 150-250 meters off of the rifles. At those ranges, I'd argue that it becomes even harder to hit targets due to the sheer scale on the screen, so it's not like there was an exorbitant amount of deaths going on at 450+ meters. In fact, I'd like to see the data pulled on just how many deaths were actually occurring at those ranges for them to be considered an overarching problem. EDIT: Of course, I'd like to see data pulled on virtually any of these discussions because other than a casual mention from a developer the term 'data' lacks a lot of substance. If it's one thing Eve devs have over Dust devs, it's showing charts and information as the basis for their reasoning as opposed to simply referencing it. That being said, having a longer ranged/lower damage variant would only complement the goal of having a broader use of weapon variants. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]

PROPHET HELLSCREAM UNSVER UNITED 11	Posted - 2014.10.02 11:03:00 - [31] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: Welcome back Aeon. The sniper rebalance was born from the fact that as a weapon class, they remained the only weapon to have not been touched in anyway since the game launch. With the sidearm and rifles rebalancing also being done in delta (fairly successfully from the feedback we've got) it would've been somewhat remiss to not look at the snipers as well. There was some serious map and range analysis with the snipers, something that hadn't been done in that level of detail for quite a while. Well known and successful snipers were polled an questioned as to their favourite snipe points and tactics. A large number of such points and tactics had nothing to do redlining either. What was found is that on some of the maps the power projection of snipers from these favoured snipe points was, put simply, excessive. Now, as you, me and virtually everyone else has pointed out, this is more to do with poor map design than anything else but any changes required to fix that will need to be part of a client patch rather than server side. Believe me, such map changes are going to be top of the list if such a chance comes. So a reduction in sniper range was thought, a decent compromise. It forces snipers to come more into the battlefield and give non snipers a chance to counter them with something other than another Thale. To compensate for the range nerf, they were all given a fairly hefty damage increase to keep in line with the increases ehp of suits since the games launch and given a significant headshot multiplier to reward skilful play. Were the changes perfect? Of course not, they were a product of unfortunate compromise. Were they needed? Absolutely. There isn't another class of weapon in the game that was so dominated by one particular varient of that class ie the Thale, than snipers. We need a broader range of varient use than was being seen before delta, in all weapon classes and it's my belief that simply looking at the kill feed in a match post delta, will tell you that delta has achieved that. Sure, that's all well and good - I'm not disputing that the current sniper rifles didn't immediately fulfill their intended job of being a high damage option at a long range, making them a worthy suppression tool in the right hands. Now, as far as 'hefty damage' increase goes, I'd argue that since the Ishukone Sniper Rifle only received +20 damage as far as I'm aware. The only real trade-off that happened was the increase in headshot damage which I have found to be very appealing. However. While the high damage/low range solution did it's job, there's now a gap in the ultra-long range tactical viability that can no longer be fulfilled in the game that could have been more elegantly handled than cutting off 150-250 meters off of the rifles. At those ranges, I'd argue that it becomes even harder to hit targets due to the sheer scale on the screen, so it's not like there was an exorbitant amount of deaths going on at 450+ meters. In fact, I'd like to see the data pulled on just how many deaths were actually occurring at those ranges for them to be considered an overarching problem. EDIT: Of course, I'd like to see data pulled on virtually any of these discussions because other than a casual mention from a developer the term 'data' lacks a lot of substance. If it's one thing Eve devs have over Dust devs, it's showing charts and information as the basis for their reasoning as opposed to simply referencing it. That being said, having a longer ranged/lower damage variant would only complement the goal of having a broader use of weapon variants. longer ranged weapon... is no longer needed... now we can supress and kill more easily than before outside RLine... so fun to see the heavys falling with HS... but what i would like to see after delta, are the nunbers on the tactical rifles... i try to use it but i can`t... ... is the weapon working the way you want it? Hobby: Headshot on cloaked units
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 90	Posted - 2014.10.02 11:23:00 - [32] - Quote from my experience the changes made counter sniping harder. you have to move closer thus are easily spotted before you can actually counter snipe. weapons can still have optimal ranges where they deal maximum damage but controlling weapons effectiveness through accuracy, kick and spread would be way better imho than just removing their ability to do damage beyond certain ranges. "long range shots with an AR doing single shots, waiting till aim recovers and shoot again, cannot do much damage cause out of range" is much better system than "see that target far way, ADS & full auto with almost pin point accuracy, oh wait my bullets hit invisible barrier preventing me doing any damage despite filling his head with hot plasma".
Leanna Boghin Paradox Pride 461	Posted - 2014.10.02 11:41:00 - [33] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Uhm with these new rifles roofs are the worst spot to be. Also you are making up wild assumptions of goals as well. I will probably get banned from the forums for asking this. but... why do you have to be an ***** to everyone that comments on something they dont like in this game? Seriously Iron you dont play the game enough to even have a comment let alone comment on other peoples comments so why be a ? As for the OPs post i completely agree but whatever we will just have to make do with the 350 range (i think thats a bit toooo short of a range 450 would have been alot better choice) and make it work in our favor and if we cant guess all those whine asses get exactly what they want. No more sniper rifles in the game (bunch of panty wastes cant handle getting sniped i guess). As for you Iron im sick of reading your bullshit if you cant at least try to be a bit positive on peoples comments or at least give a valid reason why you think their ideas and comments are "wild assumptions" then maybe you should stop posting because all you are doing is trolling and last i checked that was against the rules of the Dust forums. Its a wonder you havent been banned yet for insiting hatred on a regular basis like you do. But then again anyone who kisses CCP butt gets a free pass i guess. I snipe in the redline because i know it pisses you off**
PROPHET HELLSCREAM UNSVER UNITED 11	Posted - 2014.10.02 11:44:00 - [34] - Quote Cpt McReady wrote: from my experience the changes made counter sniping harder. you have to move closer thus are easily spotted before you can actually counter snipe. . what? now is more harder to countersniping??? from my personal experience countersniping is easyer... rooftops, redline snipers, etc... the risk for going after someone on the redline now can be more rewarded because one HS kills... the risk of beeing kill is the same now and predelta. i`m having more fun now after delta... great hotfix!! Hobby: Headshot on cloaked units
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16999	Posted - 2014.10.02 12:08:00 - [35] - Quote Cpt McReady wrote: from my experience the changes made counter sniping harder. you have to move closer thus are easily spotted before you can actually counter snipe. I seen more folks getting more creative with it though from sneaking around to cloaking it up even to get in range. The fact I am seeing more people attempting to do this is a positive thing and there are folks to are seemingly enjoying counter sniping especially when they know that if they're successful they're going to accomplish the goal of killing whoever had that gun. There are exceptionally very few fits that can survive even a max damage profiled charge sniper and the ishukone can follow up a headshot with a finishing body shot faster than most people react. The thing that warms my heart the most though is seeing Militia Sniper Rifle Sniper Rifle Tactical Sniper RIfle C15-A NT-511s Ishukone Kaalakiota back on the kill feeds again. I can go a dozen matches without seeing kills from these weapons back in pre-delta days. Either way I am still seeing the behaviors on the field continuing to evolve the apex of the meta has not reached full height yet. The team will continue to monitor this weapon. I am glad the changes made its way into delta because the pre-delta complaints where getting more so on my nerves than the current and much smaller post-delta handful. For example the thale shooters logging off the game to avoid a thale's loss has dried up lately; its maybe because of the overkill creating the instant loss of the item. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2892	Posted - 2014.10.02 12:31:00 - [36] - Quote Normal variant SR is not bad if you aim for an headsot and range is decent, zoom level is still gimped. I have problem with sensitivity, SR should have a dedicated option, change it in settings everytime would be really annoying. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
Cass Caul 1186	Posted - 2014.10.02 19:45:00 - [37] - Quote Amadi, you forgot out missed the biggest change. Reduced clip and total ammo of the charge sniper rifle. Reduced range + that is why Symbioticforks hadn't even logged in since delta deployed. On Hiatus.
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1594	Posted - 2014.10.02 20:01:00 - [38] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also getting snipers out of the redline wasn't a goal; if it was we be seeing ranges of 250 or less. If that wasn't the goal then why the fck reduce the range in the first place? To make it harder to counter snipe redline snipers? We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3892	Posted - 2014.10.02 20:06:00 - [39] - Quote One of the things being missed here, I think, is rendering issues at 450-600m. One of my primary concerns personally, was for instance how the Thale's excessively good zoom pre-Delta allowed snipers to easily kill players from outside their rendering distance. There was no way to identify the location of a sniper shot, even if you survived it. Snipers sit outside the range of most other weapons. That's fine, but it also means the play to counter them can be more challenging. Because for one, you're going to have to get into that range to counter them. You cannot get in range of a weapon you cannot find. And whether a sniper is in the redline or not is largely irrelevant, in my book, when the real problem is often that there's no way to find the sniper at all. Also, in the cases of some of the extreme 600m ranges, most sniper rifles were firing at scanned down chevrons, not actual targets they could see. I'm also not sure it's good gameplay for this to be possible or relied upon. I think bringing snipers down a bit to accommodate the nature of the game is acceptable. I've seen a lot more snipers out and about since Delta too. And I want to highlight that the submissions CPM members received from career snipers were definitely looked at heavily, including the numbers. The base damage didn't go as high as was proposed by those, but those numbers were definitely crunched. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 45	Posted - 2014.10.02 20:21:00 - [40] - Quote PROPHET HELLSCREAM wrote: Cpt McReady wrote: from my experience the changes made counter sniping harder. you have to move closer thus are easily spotted before you can actually counter snipe. . what? now is more harder to countersniping??? from my personal experience countersniping is easyer... rooftops, redline snipers, etc... the risk for going after someone on the redline now can be more rewarded because one HS kills... the risk of beeing kill is the same now and predelta. i`m having more fun now after delta... great hotfix!! I find it much harder. I had just started getting used to the old recticle, so I could quickly counter-snipe someone, but now it takes me a long time to line the shot up. It's mostly guess work and relying on the numbers, as I can't see the lines or dot go red if I'm on target. And snipers on rooftops can't always be counter sniped now due to the range nerf. Delta stole all my easy kills from me!

Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1594	Posted - 2014.10.02 20:26:00 - [41] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: One of the things being missed here, I think, is rendering issues at 450-600m. One of my primary concerns personally, was for instance how the Thale's excessively good zoom pre-Delta allowed snipers to easily kill players from outside their rendering distance. There was no way to identify the location of a sniper shot, even if you survived it. Uhm... it's called situational awareness and hit markers. If you know where you are it's pretty easy to figure out where a shot came from, especially when you have a red marker that pops up to point out the general direction. Even when you're insta-killed you can still catch a brief glimpse of the hit marker (though Dust is kind of sluggish on my ps3 so that might be why I catch it). Soraya Xel wrote: Snipers sit outside the range of most other weapons. That's fine, but it also means the play to counter them can be more challenging. Because for one, you're going to have to get into that range to counter them. You cannot get in range of a weapon you cannot find. And whether a sniper is in the redline or not is largely irrelevant, in my book, when the real problem is often that there's no way to find the sniper at all. It's harder to counter them now than it was before. Simply because now you have to get so close to them. Before you could counter-snipe from the redline if you wanted to avoid the infantry threat but on the other hand that's where everyone looked for snipers; or like some us you could counter-snipe from within the actual battle zone where you were exposed to every threat in the game but not many would look there for snipers. Now you have to be in the battle zone to counter snipe a sniper and everyone knows it and looks there for you. We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 432	Posted - 2014.10.02 20:45:00 - [42] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Welcome back Aeon. The sniper rebalance was born from the fact that as a weapon class, they remained the only weapon to have not been touched in anyway since the game launch. With the sidearm and rifles rebalancing also being done in delta (fairly successfully from the feedback we've got) it would've been somewhat remiss to not look at the snipers as well. There was some serious map and range analysis with the snipers, something that hadn't been done in that level of detail for quite a while. Well known and successful snipers were polled an questioned as to their favourite snipe points and tactics. A large number of such points and tactics had nothing to do redlining either. What was found is that on some of the maps the power projection of snipers from these favoured snipe points was, put simply, excessive. Now, as you, me and virtually everyone else has pointed out, this is more to do with poor map design than anything else but any changes required to fix that will need to be part of a client patch rather than server side. Believe me, such map changes are going to be top of the list if such a chance comes. So a reduction in sniper range was thought, a decent compromise. It forces snipers to come more into the battlefield and give non snipers a chance to counter them with something other than another Thale. To compensate for the range nerf, they were all given a fairly hefty damage increase to keep in line with the increases ehp of suits since the games launch and given a significant headshot multiplier to reward skilful play. Were the changes perfect? Of course not, they were a product of unfortunate compromise. Were they needed? Absolutely. There isn't another class of weapon in the game that was so dominated by one particular varient of that class ie the Thale, than snipers. We need a broader range of varient use than was being seen before delta, in all weapon classes and it's my belief that simply looking at the kill feed in a match post delta, will tell you that delta has achieved that. Weren't maps reduced in size to fix lag problems? If the larger maps could still be viable then aren't they still in the game and therefore could be reavtivated via server side update? I miss the big Ashland map. I hate what happened to Ashland and Manus Peak for size. THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
Leanna Boghin Paradox Pride 465	Posted - 2014.10.02 21:15:00 - [43] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: One of the things being missed here, I think, is rendering issues at 450-600m. One of my primary concerns personally, was for instance how the Thale's excessively good zoom pre-Delta allowed snipers to easily kill players from outside their rendering distance. There was no way to identify the location of a sniper shot, even if you survived it. Snipers sit outside the range of most other weapons. That's fine, but it also means the play to counter them can be more challenging. Because for one, you're going to have to get into that range to counter them. You cannot get in range of a weapon you cannot find. And whether a sniper is in the redline or not is largely irrelevant, in my book, when the real problem is often that there's no way to find the sniper at all. Also, in the cases of some of the extreme 600m ranges, most sniper rifles were firing at scanned down chevrons, not actual targets they could see. I'm also not sure it's good gameplay for this to be possible or relied upon. I think bringing snipers down a bit to accommodate the nature of the game is acceptable. I've seen a lot more snipers out and about since Delta too. And I want to highlight that the submissions CPM members received from career snipers were definitely looked at heavily, including the numbers. The base damage didn't go as high as was proposed by those, but those numbers were definitely crunched. So now your saying its the Thales fault the range got nerfed? Seems like a crap deal to snipers. I mean after all just reduce the zoom on Thales and problem solved. Also ANYONE can tell you that you can locate a sniper very easily IF you pay attention to your radar. That lovely little map will tell you EXACTLY where the sniper is if they dont kill you with the first shot and with a head shot. I should know i have been found and have found snipers because of that lovely radar. Another thing is that you cant shoot at chevrons and expect to hit anyone you have to be able to see your target to hit them otherwise you could be shooting at thin air. Dont know if any other "career" sniper has noticed but the rendering tend to get so wonkey that sometimes there will be chevrons where their shouldnt be meaning you are hitting nothing but the dirt if your shooting at it. And another thing i know damn well no one from CCP or any of the CPMs talked to any of those players that constantly snipe on a regular basis because if they did they would have this information already and would have realized that a 350 m range nerf would have made sniping that much more USELESS. Sure you can run around on the field with a sniper rifle now and try to quick scope but only problem with that is someone is going to see you and kill you before you can even crouch and snipe. No way in hell you can stand straife and snipe at the same time not with the wavering of the weapon. And you certainly cant just sit still and snipe anymore like you used to. Sure you can cloak but how effective is sniping really gonna be if you get to kill 3 people all match because you spent the rest of it running around cloaked so that people wouldnt find you. And redline sniping is dead on SOME maps but not all so now not only have you given people free reign to snipe in the redline without fear but also without fear of being counter sniped. Thats right no one is gonna try to get that close to a person redline sniping they would be spotted before they even got into position. Honestly CCP screwed up me and symbiotic both believe that a nerf of 350m was a bit too much. But of course no one listens to the TWO snipers that actually have spent more time sniping than anything else on this game. Apparently our opinion as snipers just doesnt count. Its fine though i never expected CCP to do much more than lie and claim they talked to all the snipers and got their opinion when i know they clearly did not. BTW all those "career" snipers they talked too were mearly noobs that probably havent played the game for more than 6 months. To be honest the whole thing is sickening. Players like myself that have played this game for YEARS get ignored and pushed to the side as if OUR opinions arent worth a ***** damn while those nooblets that dont play more than 3 hours a months get to decide the fate of the game. Its no wonder this game is dying. I snipe in the redline because i know it pisses you off**
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6613	Posted - 2014.10.02 21:16:00 - [44] - Quote A big problem with the whole 'finding the sniper' bit is that there aren't that many places for a sniper to honestly be. These aren't new maps, there's nothing being "found" anymore - if a sniper is in a location I can give a 99% guarantee that he's going to be in a spot that has been used before. In fact, a great deal of the interior sniper positions (orbital artillery outpost for instance) are now walled off with invisible barriers preventing access because... I dunno, reasons. Playing "find the sniper" is honestly not that big of an issue. If you're having problems finding them on the maps at this point then maybe you just don't play the game that much. Line Harvest: On the mountains or building rooftops. Sometimes the pipes/warehouse roofs. Manus Peak: The only time I could ever justify a range reduction because South side had a direct line of sight with Objective Alpha from the start of the game. Ashland: Mountains on either side of the starting points, sometimes on the silos east/west, rarely on the pipeline. And that's just off of memory. Suffice to say, bringing up 'can't find the sniper' as a complaint is just as much anecdotal evidence as saying that you -can- find them. Some people just don't have Spatial Awareness 5. Still not a good enough reason, to me, to slam-hammer the range the way it was. EDIT: Another thing; try just casually dragging your reticle over where you think they'll be without being zoomed in. Their chevron will light up like a ***** christmas tree regardless of the range. Iron Wolf Saber wrote:** I am glad the changes made its way into delta because the pre-delta complaints where getting more so on my nerves than the current and much smaller post-delta handful. Yeah, well we're all entitled to our (wrong) opinions. If you're still considering differing views as 'complaints' then maybe it was a bad idea to re-elect you for CPM. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
Leanna Boghin Paradox Pride 467	Posted - 2014.10.02 21:38:00 - [45] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am glad the changes made its way into delta because the pre-delta complaints where getting more so on my nerves than the current and much smaller post-delta handful. Yeah, well we're all entitled to our (wrong) opinions. If you're still considering differing views as 'complaints' then maybe it was a bad idea to re-elect you for CPM. Honestly i dont see how the guy got re-elected in the first place. He clearly doesnt play the game enough to have an opinion. And he is clearly trying to smash this game into the ground what with his vile comments and horrible feedback. Im thining CCP only chose to keep him around because of how much he ass kisses. And whether he wants to admit to it or not he does alot of ass kissing. I mean every comment he posts after an update or patch is him putting someone down (that clearly knows more about the game than he does) and claiming that their complaints are invalid or "wild assumptions". Its clear to me that Iron wolf saber should be removed as a CPM immediately since he seems to have no real interest in this game other than to destroy it. ANYONE who cant be nuetral and base their decisions and information SOLELY on the information of the gamers and their experiences have NO PLACE being a CPM. Your comments need to be unbiased and Iron they clearly are NOT! You have done nothing but put down every good idea and opinion since day 1! And the only reason CCP allows you to be so trolling as you have been is because of how much ass kissing you do. Also dont see you denying it either. In fact you make a point to "ignore" my comments of ass kissery when i make them. And i make alot of them. So man up and tell the truth. You dont really give a rats ass about Dust do you?! You would rather spend your time playing other games than being forced to sit around typing up responses to opinions that just dont matter to you. I snipe in the redline because i know it pisses you off
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1594	Posted - 2014.10.02 21:54:00 - [46] - Quote Leanna Boghin wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am glad the changes made its way into delta because the pre-delta complaints where getting more so on my nerves than the current and much smaller post-delta handful. Yeah, well we're all entitled to our (wrong) opinions. If you're still considering differing views as 'complaints' then maybe it was a bad idea to re-elect you for CPM. Honestly i dont see how the guy got re-elected in the first place. He got re-elected because the voting process wasn't explained clearly. Which ended making some votes for candidates shift over to other candidates, if I recall correctly (a comprehensive explanation is on the forums somewhere for those that care to search for it). We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1386	Posted - 2014.10.02 21:58:00 - [47] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: So, imagine my surprise when I try to counter rampant rooftop gameplay in a domination map with a sniper rifle only to discover that it's got a max range of 350m. Apparently they thought that supporting whoever has the high ground with something other than a sniper rifle was more important. FG have the longer range. Even longer than a missile tank's main turret. I played a little bit a few days ago and nobody I play with uses sniper rifles anymore, they're junk. Whoever gets the high ground has the win, even in ambush. Bugged out when the AK0 was at 20/0 and climbing. Nothing about the new Scottie can stop a proto stomper. I have no idea why this game is so supportive of proto stomping, maybe its an EVE thing? Dust514 and 'a well balanced game'. Yeah, those don't really deserve to be in the same sentence, unless it is for a game show: What is impossible, Alex. PS: AA, My PS2 blue guy just picked up a railjack. Sweet. And you can get different scopes! Just wish I had that TV or I was a better sniper. In New Eden no SP is wisely spent. CCP will Nerf the reason right out from under you.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3894	Posted - 2014.10.02 22:13:00 - [48] - Quote Leanna Boghin wrote: So now your saying its the Thales fault the range got nerfed? Seems like a crap deal to snipers. I mean after all just reduce the zoom on Thales and problem solved. The Thale's just illustrates the point well. At the high end of range, 450-600m, snipers do not render on the client like they should. Leanna Boghin wrote: And another thing i know damn well no one from CCP or any of the CPMs talked to any of those players that constantly snipe on a regular basis because if they did they would have this information already and would have realized that a 350 m range nerf would have made sniping that much more USELESS. Also, the two snipers I received feedback from were Appia and Symbioticforks. Obviously not everyone got everything they wanted, but I definitely see where their feedback played in. A base damage buff was something I fought for largely based on their feedback. The headshot bonus buff should've been fairly close to the document I got. And one of the other things, is that the only sniper with a range of 350m is the Tactical, as far as I'm aware. The normal sniper should still be 450m according to the spreadsheet. Actually, that is kinda one of my peeves, I don't like the range disparity between the sniper rifles. I would've rather they all been the same, so snipers can always countersnipe the sniper aiming at them. Aeon Amadi wrote: A big problem with the whole 'finding the sniper' bit is that there aren't that many places for a sniper to honestly be. These aren't new maps, there's nothing being "found" anymore - if a sniper is in a location I can give a 99% guarantee that he's going to be in a spot that has been used before. In fact, a great deal of the interior sniper positions (orbital artillery outpost for instance) are now walled off with invisible barriers preventing access because... I dunno, reasons. There's a lot of "general directions" where the sniper could be anywhere from on the ground to on a building to on a tower, to on top of the MCC from the exact same direction. I'm sorry, but the inability to actually point your gun in the direction of a sniper, and have his chevron appear, like it used to, is crippling. And the problem particularly manifests at the extreme end of range. Because no, that doesn't work anymore actually, if they're far enough away. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Leanna Boghin Paradox Pride 471	Posted - 2014.10.02 22:14:00 - [49] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Leanna Boghin wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am glad the changes made its way into delta because the pre-delta complaints where getting more so on my nerves than the current and much smaller post-delta handful. Yeah, well we're all entitled to our (wrong) opinions. If you're still considering differing views as 'complaints' then maybe it was a bad idea to re-elect you for CPM. Honestly i dont see how the guy got re-elected in the first place. He got re-elected because the voting process wasn't explained clearly. Which ended making some votes for candidates shift over to other candidates, if I recall correctly (a comprehensive explanation is on the forums somewhere for those that care to search for it). So in other words CCP rigged it so that certain people would remain CPMs even though they clearly have no interest in being CPM. Or at least being a proper CPM. Honestly If Iron cant find it within himself to be unbiased and actually play the game (so that he will know what he is talking about rather than basing his information off posts from the forums) then maybe he should just quit and give up the CPM spot. Honestly i wish he would quit then they could fill the spot with one of the CPM cannidates that didnt win but would obviously be better suited to the job than Iron ever will. I snipe in the redline because i know it pisses you off
Cass Caul 1197	Posted - 2014.10.02 22:20:00 - [50] - Quote Lol @ leanna, you think IWS is trolling. He's not trolling, he's just some socially ******** kid with problems falling in the autism spectum. He legitimately thinks those terrible ideas are good ones. The sniper rifle is the finest example of balancing a weapon for pub matches when everything else is balanced for PC. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt

KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1386	Posted - 2014.10.02 22:27:00 - [51] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: One of the things being missed here, I think, is rendering issues at 450-600m. One of my primary concerns personally, was for instance how the Thale's excessively good zoom pre-Delta allowed snipers to easily kill players from outside their rendering distance. There was no way to identify the location of a sniper shot, even if you survived it. That is a result of the game engine settings and not related to any mercenary attribute or real world skill. CCP/Shanghai chose to favor art over game play. It is a common problem in FPS gaming and is the bane of AAA development costs. Not that dust is AAA, just sayin. Look at Rage by Id Software. Definitely was a AAA game by a AAA studio, FPS, beautiful sky boxes that are useless in game but they are pretty. And expensive in every aspect. Ultimately they were merely wasted resources. Which was a shame because the shooting game in Rage was great fun. There was just so little of it. Fun and shooting, I mean. This game, dust514, hasn't been able draw at a distance since 1.0. Which was stated as a conscious decision by CCP/Shanghai. Add to the previous (pre-delta) situation it only had one good scope and it was on the Thale. Regardless of the Thale's extra damage it was the only one that let a player see at a distance. There are still locations in game that dust cannot draw mercenaries, of any color, over 210m. With the bad hit reporting the victim of a sniper rifle, forge gun, plasma cannon, swarm launcher and anything that hits from above there is little to no escape. It simply escalates the dead clone's rage (pun sort of intended). Some of which will be reflected on the forums and not in accurate kill feeds. Allowing a better scope on other sniper rifles would have helped. Then cutting the range to 500 meters or 450m would have been better. With these changes there isn't a reason to bring out the now over priced charged sniper rifle. PS: The Thale's previous magnification was too much for me. Which was an interesting problem, but we solved it with a Nerf Hammer. Too funny. In New Eden no SP is wisely spent. CCP will Nerf the reason right out from under you.
Leanna Boghin Paradox Pride 471	Posted - 2014.10.02 22:29:00 - [52] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Lol @ leanna, you think IWS is trolling. He's not trolling, he's just some socially ****** kid with problems falling in the autism spectum. He legitimately thinks those terrible ideas are good ones. The sniper rifle is the finest example of balancing a weapon for pub matches when everything else is balanced for PC. See thats just it IWS and many of the other CPMs dont seem to understand that you cant ever fully perfectly and completely balance a game. Specially FPS games like Dust. There is always gonna be that 1 weapon or piece of gear that people say is over powered or too weak. The idea of "balancing" Is to get as close as you can without breaking the game and making it a complete nut fest. And yes i agree he thinks that CCP ideas are awesome although im not sure why since most of CCP ideas have ended in complete failure. Honestly CCP needs to start truely taking the ideas of the players and putting them into effect. Even if its just for a test run try the idea out and if it works well leave it alone and if it doesnt try another idea. After all Dust is only a beta now for Leagion (although CCP would never admit to it) so they might as well treat it like a beta and make the changes that people are really looking for and have solid ideas for changes on. There have been SOOO many good ideas by people in this game that have gotten smashed and pushed to the side from the likes of people like Iron and it needs to stop. The people who actually play this game need to be heard their ideas need to be utilized and CCP needs to stop ignoring the fact that the only way that Leagion wont be a complete and utter failure is if they start giving the players what is it they truely want. Sure they want balance but they are also willing to compromise. I snipe in the redline because i know it pisses you off**
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1026	Posted - 2014.10.02 22:29:00 - [53] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: One of the things being missed here, I think, is rendering issues at 450-600m. One of my primary concerns personally, was for instance how the Thale's excessively good zoom pre-Delta allowed snipers to easily kill players from outside their rendering distance. There was no way to identify the location of a sniper shot, even if you survived it. Snipers sit outside the range of most other weapons. That's fine, but it also means the play to counter them can be more challenging. Because for one, you're going to have to get into that range to counter them. You cannot get in range of a weapon you cannot find. And whether a sniper is in the redline or not is largely irrelevant, in my book, when the real problem is often that there's no way to find the sniper at all. Also, in the cases of some of the extreme 600m ranges, most sniper rifles were firing at scanned down chevrons, not actual targets they could see. I'm also not sure it's good gameplay for this to be possible or relied upon. I think bringing snipers down a bit to accommodate the nature of the game is acceptable. I've seen a lot more snipers out and about since Delta too. And I want to highlight that the submissions CPM members received from career snipers were definitely looked at heavily, including the numbers. The base damage didn't go as high as was proposed by those, but those numbers were definitely crunched. I could always see the source, even at even beyond the range of my rifle at times when I looked in their direction. They weren't out of render distance, they were just the size of a pixel on the screen. Some of the locations that I could NOT see the shooter were within 300m however. Terrain glitching is something that is quite.... a distraction. If you cannot shoot in at an angle, you should not be able to shoot out at said same angle... Since sniper rifles fire so slowly, it would not be that much of a problem for them to check the shot going both ways before allowing damage to calculate. (as in a mirror bullet originates from the impact point, and if it cannot hit back up the sight from that region, then the damage to the intended target is nullified. However, i can sooo imagine some new "cannot damage anything" bug.) However, I think 350 is a tad short. 400 would have been a better range http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3898	Posted - 2014.10.02 22:31:00 - [54] - Quote KalOfTheRathi, not arguing that it's an issue with the game itself, just saying, in a situation where our client cruds out at 450m, having snipers at 600m isn't cool. It was a conscious decision, as far as I know, particularly because of the trade off between draw distance and frame rate. More draw distance is less frame rate. I'm glad you like the Thale's zoom change, I saw a lot of people complain about it. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Leanna Boghin Paradox Pride 471	Posted - 2014.10.02 22:37:00 - [55] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: One of the things being missed here, I think, is rendering issues at 450-600m. One of my primary concerns personally, was for instance how the Thale's excessively good zoom pre-Delta allowed snipers to easily kill players from outside their rendering distance. There was no way to identify the location of a sniper shot, even if you survived it. Snipers sit outside the range of most other weapons. That's fine, but it also means the play to counter them can be more challenging. Because for one, you're going to have to get into that range to counter them. You cannot get in range of a weapon you cannot find. And whether a sniper is in the redline or not is largely irrelevant, in my book, when the real problem is often that there's no way to find the sniper at all. Also, in the cases of some of the extreme 600m ranges, most sniper rifles were firing at scanned down chevrons, not actual targets they could see. I'm also not sure it's good gameplay for this to be possible or relied upon. I think bringing snipers down a bit to accommodate the nature of the game is acceptable. I've seen a lot more snipers out and about since Delta too. And I want to highlight that the submissions CPM members received from career snipers were definitely looked at heavily, including the numbers. The base damage didn't go as high as was proposed by those, but those numbers were definitely crunched. I could always see the source, even at even beyond the range of my rifle at times when I looked in their direction. They weren't out of render distance, they were just the size of a pixel on the screen. Some of the locations that I could NOT see the shooter were within 300m however. Terrain glitching is something that is quite.... a distraction. If you cannot shoot in at an angle, you should not be able to shoot out at said same angle... Since sniper rifles fire so slowly, it would not be that much of a problem for them to check the shot going both ways before allowing damage to calculate. (as in a mirror bullet originates from the impact point, and if it cannot hit back up the sight from that region, then the damage to the intended target is nullified. However, i can sooo imagine some new "cannot damage anything" bug.) However, I think 350 is a tad short. 400 would have been a better range hmm i still feel that 400m is a bit too short after all a sniper rifle is meant to be a long range weapon and although 400m is long range is not optimal i believe for a sniper rifle but im willing to compromise and suggest a range of 425m as a sniper rifle range. Its not too far so that people will be constantly sniping from the redline while it still allows snipers to keep their distance from the hotzone. Although there are still some maps out there due to the maps size that will always allow redline sniping even if they nerfed the range to 200m (manas peak or whats left of it being one of those maps) I snipe in the redline because i know it pisses you off
Leanna Boghin Paradox Pride 471	Posted - 2014.10.02 22:41:00 - [56] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: KalOfTheRathi, not arguing that it's an issue with the game itself, just saying, in a situation where our client cruds out at 450m, having snipers at 600m isn't cool. It was a conscious decision, as far as I know, particularly because of the trade off between draw distance and frame rate. More draw distance is less frame rate. I'm glad you like the Thale's zoom change, I saw a lot of people complain about it. They nerfed the zoom on Thales? (I havent been able to play in a couple weeks due to a busted PS3) If thats the case it was a much needed change. I honestly found that it was too easy to kill targets from 600m with a thales but at closer ranges it was almost impossible to keep a shot lined up. So if they nerfed the zoom on a thales it was a much needed change indeed regardless of how many people whine about it thats something that had to happen. But as for the 350m range nerf that was a bit too much so they need to up the range on sniper rifles ASAP because 350m is too short for a weapon that was meant to be long distance. I snipe in the redline because i know it pisses you off
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6616	Posted - 2014.10.02 22:59:00 - [57] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Leanna Boghin wrote: So now your saying its the Thales fault the range got nerfed? Seems like a crap deal to snipers. I mean after all just reduce the zoom on Thales and problem solved. The Thale's just illustrates the point well. At the high end of range, 450-600m, snipers do not render on the client like they should. Leanna Boghin wrote: And another thing i know damn well no one from CCP or any of the CPMs talked to any of those players that constantly snipe on a regular basis because if they did they would have this information already and would have realized that a 350 m range nerf would have made sniping that much more USELESS. Also, the two snipers I received feedback from were Appia and Symbioticforks. Obviously not everyone got everything they wanted, but I definitely see where their feedback played in. A base damage buff was something I fought for largely based on their feedback. The headshot bonus buff should've been fairly close to the document I got. And one of the other things, is that the only sniper with a range of 350m is the Tactical, as far as I'm aware. The normal sniper should still be 450m according to the spreadsheet. Actually, that is kinda one of my peeves, I don't like the range disparity between the sniper rifles. I would've rather they all been the same, so snipers can always countersnipe the sniper aiming at them. Aeon Amadi wrote: A big problem with the whole 'finding the sniper' bit is that there aren't that many places for a sniper to honestly be. These aren't new maps, there's nothing being "found" anymore - if a sniper is in a location I can give a 99% guarantee that he's going to be in a spot that has been used before. In fact, a great deal of the interior sniper positions (orbital artillery outpost for instance) are now walled off with invisible barriers preventing access because... I dunno, reasons. There's a lot of "general directions" where the sniper could be anywhere from on the ground to on a building to on a tower, to on top of the MCC from the exact same direction. I'm sorry, but the inability to actually point your gun in the direction of a sniper, and have his chevron appear, like it used to, is crippling. And the problem particularly manifests at the extreme end of range. Because no, that doesn't work anymore actually, if they're far enough away. As you mention in a later post, it was intentional and by design. Back in beta we had infinite draw distances that outlined players in blocky black non-sense that could be seen through the 'dust in the wind' sort of visual effects (SSAO was also visible). It's literally no different then the crippling issue of not being able to hear **** behind you because of an 'animation optimization' that was slated to be fixed but never was (dev's words, not mine). So, tie it all into account and there is literally nothing here that is the fault of the sniper rifle. Redline is simple game mechanics, sniping perches are map design, and render distance is optimization. All of which paint a nice little picture for the up-and-close rough-and-tussle but we've been steadily draining options out of the game to accomodate for that for as long as anyone can remember. IMO, kill the SSAO and bring back the draw distance. See what the performance looks like after that. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
Leanna Boghin Paradox Pride 471	Posted - 2014.10.03 00:07:00 - [58] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Leanna Boghin wrote: So now your saying its the Thales fault the range got nerfed? Seems like a crap deal to snipers. I mean after all just reduce the zoom on Thales and problem solved. The Thale's just illustrates the point well. At the high end of range, 450-600m, snipers do not render on the client like they should. Leanna Boghin wrote: And another thing i know damn well no one from CCP or any of the CPMs talked to any of those players that constantly snipe on a regular basis because if they did they would have this information already and would have realized that a 350 m range nerf would have made sniping that much more USELESS. Also, the two snipers I received feedback from were Appia and Symbioticforks. Obviously not everyone got everything they wanted, but I definitely see where their feedback played in. A base damage buff was something I fought for largely based on their feedback. The headshot bonus buff should've been fairly close to the document I got. And one of the other things, is that the only sniper with a range of 350m is the Tactical, as far as I'm aware. The normal sniper should still be 450m according to the spreadsheet. Actually, that is kinda one of my peeves, I don't like the range disparity between the sniper rifles. I would've rather they all been the same, so snipers can always countersnipe the sniper aiming at them. Aeon Amadi wrote: A big problem with the whole 'finding the sniper' bit is that there aren't that many places for a sniper to honestly be. These aren't new maps, there's nothing being "found" anymore - if a sniper is in a location I can give a 99% guarantee that he's going to be in a spot that has been used before. In fact, a great deal of the interior sniper positions (orbital artillery outpost for instance) are now walled off with invisible barriers preventing access because... I dunno, reasons. There's a lot of "general directions" where the sniper could be anywhere from on the ground to on a building to on a tower, to on top of the MCC from the exact same direction. I'm sorry, but the inability to actually point your gun in the direction of a sniper, and have his chevron appear, like it used to, is crippling. And the problem particularly manifests at the extreme end of range. Because no, that doesn't work anymore actually, if they're far enough away. As you mention in a later post, it was intentional and by design. Back in beta we had infinite draw distances that outlined players in blocky black non-sense that could be seen through the 'dust in the wind' sort of visual effects (SSAO was also visible). It's literally no different then the crippling issue of not being able to hear ** behind you because of an 'animation optimization' that was slated to be fixed but never was (dev's words, not mine). So, tie it all into account and there is literally nothing here that is the fault of the sniper rifle. Redline is simple game mechanics, sniping perches are map design, and render distance is optimization. All of which paint a nice little picture for the up-and-close rough-and-tussle but we've been steadily draining options out of the game to accomodate for that for as long as anyone can remember. IMO, kill the SSAO and bring back the draw distance. See what the performance looks like after that. Honestly I think its a good idea and worth trying. And your absolutely right nothing is wrong with the sniper rifle in itself. Just the map design and game mechanics is made specifically more for close range combat then long range leaving snipers lying in the dirt more often than not. Its a shame because the sniper rifle has always been the most balanced weapon in the game that hadnt been touched since beta days. But with the amount of changes since then to the game as well as the map designs constantly changed its left the sniper rifle with no choice but to join the rest in the endless nerf and buff loop. I snipe in the redline because i know it pisses you off**
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3903	Posted - 2014.10.03 00:27:00 - [59] - Quote Leanna Boghin wrote: They nerfed the zoom on Thales? (I havent been able to play in a couple weeks due to a busted PS3) If thats the case it was a much needed change. I honestly found that it was too easy to kill targets from 600m with a thales but at closer ranges it was almost impossible to keep a shot lined up. So if they nerfed the zoom on a thales it was a much needed change indeed regardless of how many people whine about it thats something that had to happen. But as for the 350m range nerf that was a bit too much so they need to up the range on sniper rifles ASAP because 350m is too short for a weapon that was meant to be long distance. Ah, you haven't played yet. Explains the other misconception. Only the tactical sniper is 350m. Charge should be 400m and normal snipers are 450m, unless I forgot how to read the spreadsheet. And yeah, Thale's zoom is now the same as the proto rifle, I believe. It's plenty "officer" enough without the OP zoom. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Leanna Boghin Paradox Pride 471	Posted - 2014.10.03 00:42:00 - [60] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Leanna Boghin wrote: They nerfed the zoom on Thales? (I havent been able to play in a couple weeks due to a busted PS3) If thats the case it was a much needed change. I honestly found that it was too easy to kill targets from 600m with a thales but at closer ranges it was almost impossible to keep a shot lined up. So if they nerfed the zoom on a thales it was a much needed change indeed regardless of how many people whine about it thats something that had to happen. But as for the 350m range nerf that was a bit too much so they need to up the range on sniper rifles ASAP because 350m is too short for a weapon that was meant to be long distance. Ah, you haven't played yet. Explains the other misconception. Only the tactical sniper is 350m. Charge should be 400m and normal snipers are 450m, unless I forgot how to read the spreadsheet. And yeah, Thale's zoom is now the same as the proto rifle, I believe. It's plenty "officer" enough without the OP zoom. Yeah i havent played for a couple weeks because of a PS3 meltdown (literally). And i just assumed the ranges were all the same (except the tac rifle that always seems to be different than the other rifles) so i just assumed the 350m range was for all the sniper rifles. But if it is as you say then i got no complaints about the ranges of the rifles. Actually I find the current numbers you have given me to be most agreeable although i think that the tac rifle range is a bit too short honestly but not by much to even be worth another hotfix. Although i wont really know for sure what i think of the current ranges until i can get another PS3 and start playing again. Im so having major withdrawals. Now if you are wrong about the numbers and the range is as everyone has made it seem then i will have to stand by my previous statements as to the range being too low. Specially for regular sniper rifles and charge rifles. As for the thales yeah it really needed the zoom dumbed down quite a bit. Although i have to disagree with it being OP without the zoom since the zoom is what i believe really made it OP to begin with. SO it should be fairly balanced as an OW now or at least as much as it can be. BTW you can read the spreed sheets all you want for the numbers but nothing beats a good field testing of the changes that CCP makes to the game. I snipe in the redline because i know it pisses you off

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3907	Posted - 2014.10.03 01:07:00 - [61] - Quote Leanna Boghin wrote: BTW you can read the spreed sheets all you want for the numbers but nothing beats a good field testing of the changes that CCP makes to the game. I agree. Hope you find a solution for your ailing PS3 soon! CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Leanna Boghin Paradox Pride 473	Posted - 2014.10.03 01:51:00 - [62] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Leanna Boghin wrote: BTW you can read the spreed sheets all you want for the numbers but nothing beats a good field testing of the changes that CCP makes to the game. I agree. Hope you find a solution for your ailing PS3 soon! lol its not ailing its dead. Its about as useful as a paperweight. But thansk anyways hopefully i can find a cheap one at the local pawn (if the owner hasnt died that is guy is like 100 years old) otherwise im stuck with the xbox that doesnt have dust. Damn microsoft and their security can go straight to hell. I snipe in the redline because i know it pisses you off
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17028	Posted - 2014.10.03 01:58:00 - [63] - Quote So far the feedback on the new rifles said we hit the nail on the end with the damage. New Tactical Magazine Size is beloved. Winged dots have mixed reactions Circle dots on Tactical are not that well loved. Rifle Ammo skill useless. Charge Rifle ammo lamented at bit; players have adapted and learned to not burn thier shots all up. Counter sniper behaviors are evolving Newer long range sniper behaviors are also evolving. Field sniping population is up and behaviors and new sniping spots in field are also constantly evolving and has not yet full settled down. Fitting meta is also changing a bit too. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 720	Posted - 2014.10.03 02:14:00 - [64] - Quote This thread is amusing me. Full of CPM and candidates. Specifically, the amusing part is that I voted for all of you on my main. lel. Also, I agree wth Aeon insofar as I think a strategic variant (as opposed to tactical) would be nice, for battlefield control purposes. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Leanna Boghin Paradox Pride 473	Posted - 2014.10.03 02:21:00 - [65] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: This thread is amusing me. Full of CPM and candidates. Specifically, the amusing part is that I voted for all of you on my main. lel. Also, I agree wth Aeon insofar as I think a strategic variant (as opposed to tactical) would be nice, for battlefield control purposes. What candidates? All i have seen is a few CPM and last i checked the voting period is long over so all those candidates are just regular people now (if they arent a CPM) And it would be nice to have them look over their "data" again and find more useful ways of nerfing things but i dont hold out much hope for CCP and the doing away of the super duper nerf hammer. I snipe in the redline because i know it pisses you off
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1026	Posted - 2014.10.03 07:48:00 - [66] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: As you mention in a later post, it was intentional and by design. Back in beta we had infinite draw distances that outlined players in blocky black non-sense that could be seen through the 'dust in the wind' sort of visual effects (SSAO was also visible). It's literally no different then the crippling issue of not being able to hear **** behind you because of an 'animation optimization' that was slated to be fixed but never was (dev's words, not mine). So, tie it all into account and there is literally nothing here that is the fault of the sniper rifle. Redline is simple game mechanics, sniping perches are map design, and render distance is optimization. All of which paint a nice little picture for the up-and-close rough-and-tussle but we've been steadily draining options out of the game to accomodate for that for as long as anyone can remember. IMO, kill the SSAO and bring back the draw distance. See what the performance looks like after that. Mmmmm... that old rendering distance was attached to a different rendering engine altogether. That engine was discarded when they found it was causing the older PS3 models to burn out. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Appia Nappia 1201	Posted - 2014.10.03 08:26:00 - [67] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: As you mention in a later post, it was intentional and by design. Back in beta we had infinite draw distances that outlined players in blocky black non-sense that could be seen through the 'dust in the wind' sort of visual effects (SSAO was also visible). It's literally no different then the crippling issue of not being able to hear ** behind you because of an 'animation optimization' that was slated to be fixed but never was (dev's words, not mine). So, tie it all into account and there is literally nothing here that is the fault of the sniper rifle. Redline is simple game mechanics, sniping perches are map design, and render distance is optimization. All of which paint a nice little picture for the up-and-close rough-and-tussle but we've been steadily draining options out of the game to accomodate for that for as long as anyone can remember. IMO, kill the SSAO and bring back the draw distance. See what the performance looks like after that. Mmmmm... that old rendering distance was attached to a different rendering engine altogether. That engine was discarded when they found it was causing the older PS3 models to burn out. Well, you see, CCP though you would rather have more textures on your weapons and dropsuits and buildings than actually render any of those things over 100m (remember Uprising 1.0 had a render distance of 100m, later after enough complaining was increased to 100m on a 2D-plane and took a ** ton of time before we could see 200m) So very tired
PROPHET HELLSCREAM UNSVER UNITED 11	Posted - 2014.10.03 10:19:00 - [68] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: PROPHET HELLSCREAM wrote: Cpt McReady wrote: from my experience the changes made counter sniping harder. you have to move closer thus are easily spotted before you can actually counter snipe. . what? now is more harder to countersniping??? from my personal experience countersniping is easyer... rooftops, redline snipers, etc... the risk for going after someone on the redline now can be more rewarded because one HS kills... the risk of beeing kill is the same now and predelta. i`m having more fun now after delta... great hotfix!! I find it much harder. I had just started getting used to the old recticle, so I could quickly counter-snipe someone, but now it takes me a long time to line the shot up. It's mostly guess work and relying on the numbers, as I can't see the lines or dot go red if I'm on target. And snipers on rooftops can't always be counter sniped now due to the range nerf. Delta stole all my easy kills from me! just keep using wingreticule you`ll find it usefull. For counter sniping the silence/range of the ishukone, and the buff on HS is a powerfull combination, i`m getting more kills then before... i may be killed once and a while but that is not an issue the fun of the hunt is priceless. Hobby: Headshot on cloaked units
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6620	Posted - 2014.10.03 23:48:00 - [69] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: This thread is amusing me. Full of CPM and candidates. Specifically, the amusing part is that I voted for all of you on my main. lel. Also, I agree wth Aeon insofar as I think a strategic variant (as opposed to tactical) would be nice, for battlefield control purposes. I really don't see any reason not to have it if we're really married to this assumption that the range wasn't cut as an attempt to impact redline sniping. Sure, there's some rendering problems, but it's entirely by design - as much as LAVs blowing up for just barely being touched by a friendly tank. People forget that they changed the draw distance to correlate with the weapon you're using, so looking around for a sniper whilst holding a shotgun - technically speaking - is foolhardy because you're not expected to be able to engage that target anyway. I don't assume to use that as evidence as to why the sniper rifle's range should be reduced or why we should -not- have an ultra-long range rifle variant available. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 242	Posted - 2014.10.04 00:22:00 - [70] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: They increased the damage and headshot multiplier significantly but reduced the range to compensate. I'd have stuck with the old stats. More worthwhile to have longer range and the ability to suppress units on the rooftops/kill their equipment then to outright kill them and not be able to actively get them off the roof. Gotta be honest man. Seems like you prefer long range low risk lower skilled sniping as opposed to high risk high skill high reward sniping from that statement.... TO be fair -- a super long range sniper is reasonable for me. And I understand your point about the map design and progression being a HUGE factor in redline sniping. However -- if we are all 100% honest with outselves -- snipers sit way in the back where they don't even render on other player's screens and can't be attacked by anything except another sniper. That's absolutely silly. The recent change put's sniper in much more peril -- especially given the aim steady mechanic in this game (i'd consider revising that...) but with the significant headshot damage increase it really makes sniping feel more like SNIPING. All of THAT being said -- im not sure the recent range nerf was right. I sometimes feel like snipers can't cover areas they should be able to cover EVEN when in the battlefield proper.

Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6620	Posted - 2014.10.04 00:35:00 - [71] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: They increased the damage and headshot multiplier significantly but reduced the range to compensate. I'd have stuck with the old stats. More worthwhile to have longer range and the ability to suppress units on the rooftops/kill their equipment then to outright kill them and not be able to actively get them off the roof. Gotta be honest man. Seems like you prefer long range low risk lower skilled sniping as opposed to high risk high skill high reward sniping from that statement.... TO be fair -- a super long range sniper is reasonable for me. And I understand your point about the map design and progression being a HUGE factor in redline sniping. However -- if we are all 100% honest with outselves -- snipers sit way in the back where they don't even render on other player's screens and can't be attacked by anything except another sniper. That's absolutely silly. The recent change put's sniper in much more peril -- especially given the aim steady mechanic in this game (i'd consider revising that...) but with the significant headshot damage increase it really makes sniping feel more like SNIPING. All of THAT being said -- im not sure the recent range nerf was right. I sometimes feel like snipers can't cover areas they should be able to cover EVEN when in the battlefield proper. Should go check out the video I have on Youtube where I wind up sniping the enemy team from just outside of -their- redline. My specialization is geared toward high-intensity CQC fighting (Gallente Commando/Assault, specifically). Sniping is just something I do when need be but it's always for suppression, equipment disposal, and high-value target killing; in that order. It's too much of a pain in the ass to have to get a Dropship or Orbital Strike on a roof top in PCs (at least it was when I was doing PCs) so sniping was always a go-to option. PCs in particular are a surefire victim of height play because every district has an outpost and unless it's the Gallente Research Lab, it's almost inevitably going to centralize around who has the height advantage. EDIT: Another thing I forgot to mention was that having long range gives a better field of view over the scope of the battlefield, which a proper sniper will always utilize to relay troop movement to his team -long- before you will ever pick them up on active/passive scans. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
Thurak1 Psygod9 1015	Posted - 2014.10.04 00:47:00 - [72] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: They increased the damage and headshot multiplier significantly but reduced the range to compensate. I'd have stuck with the old stats. More worthwhile to have longer range and the ability to suppress units on the rooftops/kill their equipment then to outright kill them and not be able to actively get them off the roof. So you want sniper rifles that cannot kill a heavy with two+ magazines? YES :)
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3935	Posted - 2014.10.04 00:51:00 - [73] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: People forget that they changed the draw distance to correlate with the weapon you're using, so looking around for a sniper whilst holding a shotgun - technically speaking - is foolhardy because you're not expected to be able to engage that target anyway. I don't assume to use that as evidence as to why the sniper rifle's range should be reduced or why we should -not- have an ultra-long range rifle variant available. This is something I, at least, take into account. But when you get shot at with an AR or rail rifle or something, it's reasonable to expect you can look and see where the shot came from and try to go counter it. Or that at least somebody in your party might have a weapon that can locate that individual. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2253	Posted - 2014.10.04 03:57:00 - [74] - Quote Expect more of the same Aeon. As the list of obvious shoulda-been-done-two-years-ago balancing items get crossed off the 'to do' list we're left with trying to extract good game play from a broken client. The contortions required to work around what CCP produced will grow ever more hideous. It's kinda reminding me of the Cruel Shoes. PSN: RationalSpark
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 465	Posted - 2014.10.04 05:54:00 - [75] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Sure, but do so as a -sniper-. An M16 now has longer effective range than a Sniper Rifle in Dust 514. I don't understand why there couldn't have just been a high damage/low range variant added on that could have made everyone happy. An M16 has a longer effective range than every weapon in Dust 514 (and many many many other games) Your point? Also Fiction vs Science Fiction vs Non-fiction. just imagine the Caldari sniper rifle in Arma 3 with the efficient range off 12000 m
Appia Nappia 1207	Posted - 2014.10.04 06:27:00 - [76] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: People forget that they changed the draw distance to correlate with the weapon you're using, so looking around for a sniper whilst holding a shotgun - technically speaking - is foolhardy because you're not expected to be able to engage that target anyway. I don't assume to use that as evidence as to why the sniper rifle's range should be reduced or why we should -not- have an ultra-long range rifle variant available. This is something I, at least, take into account. But when you get shot at with an AR or rail rifle or something, it's reasonable to expect you can look and see where the shot came from and try to go counter it. Or that at least somebody in your party might have a weapon that can locate that individual. LMAO, bro try running a minmatar scout suit with 2 complex kinetic catalyzers. You get the Gallente Research Facility or Communications Outpost. You can run along inside there and people just pop out of no where with rifles after they've killed you. Because shotgun/nova knives have a shorter render range than rifles and because Outpost have terrible time with rendering priority and Z-fighting. So very tired
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Pure Evil. 1991	Posted - 2014.10.04 06:43:00 - [77] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Lol @ leanna, you think IWS is trolling. He's not trolling, he's just some socially ******** kid with problems falling in the autism spectum. He legitimately thinks those terrible ideas are good ones. The sniper rifle is the finest example of balancing a weapon for pub matches when everything else is balanced for PC. Yeah cause all socially akward\autistic people are douchebags. PSN Sil4ntChaozz Slowly embracing my inner ninja. Im a decent ghost. And a decent menace. Mk.0, Gk.0, & 'Sever' Scout
Jathniel G I A N T 1169	Posted - 2014.10.04 09:53:00 - [78] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Okay, so back from my little hiatus (I dunno why, maybe because I have a new job and can actually afford my masochistic tendencies). Why was the sniper rifle range changed, exactly..? Game already has a favor toward high ground mechanics; whereas other games give you options (Planetside 2 has jetpacks, Destiny has levitation abilities, Battlefield 2: Special Forces has grappling hooks) Dust 514 you're left with... Well. Dropships, Orbital Strikes, and Sniper Rifles. So, imagine my surprise when I try to counter rampant rooftop gameplay in a domination map with a sniper rifle only to discover that it's got a max range of 350m. Which is literally saying that legitimate sniper play like Grid H-9 to the Outpost is now invalidated. Considering that I was gone and didn't read any of the discussions, I can only imagine it went something like this: CCP: "How about we increase the damage to compensate for the increased TTK that's been going on since 1.8?" Player A: "Waaah, redline snipers." CCP: "How about reduced range?" Player A: "Ship it. **** the consequences." SymbioticFork and other legitimate snipers: "This is the dumbest decision that I could have ever witnessed." I said it at least a dozen times before I left in just about every complaint thread imaginable: Redline sniping is an issue with map design and gamemode progression, it's not the fault of the sniper rifle itself. Sniper Rifles were never a problem during Closed Beta///Crater Lake because there was forward momentum in the game-mode and while I realize that that will never happen because development for Dust 514 is now against our religion, I still think it was a dumb idea to reduce the anti-rooftop counters to Orbital Strikes (now harder due to WP increase) and Dropships without providing something else in return. Welcome back dude. On CCP's defense... Rattati and them didn't do so bad with this one. At least the Sniper Rifles put down a good bit easier. The Tactical is a nice little 6-shot demon, with better stability. The sights are mostly improved. Nice changes. I'm still not sniping anymore, though. Redline sniping is MOSTLY fixed with this little change. Players deep in the redline are hardly going to hit anything beyond their homepoint (depending on the map of course). But you still have them in the redline anyway. It was nice to see sniper rifles get their absolute first rebalance, EVER. They are more dangerous, and I still see them function decently in competent hands. It's sad that proper long range sniping is dead in this game, but at least if you do pick up a sniper rifle to take someone out, it will NOT let you down. The Charge sniper rifle got a massive base damage buff, and a crazy headshot bonus, so pesky Sentinel snipers can be killed. Calmando snipers hit very hard, naturally. All damage bonuses considered. The sniper rebalance is bittersweet. EDIT: Yes, the range was cut to curb redline sniping. Let no one convince you otherwise. Rendering wasn't a problem after you gave the game a few moments to load sprites and models at range. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6626	Posted - 2014.10.06 03:50:00 - [79] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Okay, so back from my little hiatus (I dunno why, maybe because I have a new job and can actually afford my masochistic tendencies). Why was the sniper rifle range changed, exactly..? Game already has a favor toward high ground mechanics; whereas other games give you options (Planetside 2 has jetpacks, Destiny has levitation abilities, Battlefield 2: Special Forces has grappling hooks) Dust 514 you're left with... Well. Dropships, Orbital Strikes, and Sniper Rifles. So, imagine my surprise when I try to counter rampant rooftop gameplay in a domination map with a sniper rifle only to discover that it's got a max range of 350m. Which is literally saying that legitimate sniper play like Grid H-9 to the Outpost is now invalidated. Considering that I was gone and didn't read any of the discussions, I can only imagine it went something like this: CCP: "How about we increase the damage to compensate for the increased TTK that's been going on since 1.8?" Player A: "Waaah, redline snipers." CCP: "How about reduced range?" Player A: "Ship it. **** the consequences." SymbioticFork and other legitimate snipers: "This is the dumbest decision that I could have ever witnessed." I said it at least a dozen times before I left in just about every complaint thread imaginable: Redline sniping is an issue with map design and gamemode progression, it's not the fault of the sniper rifle itself. Sniper Rifles were never a problem during Closed Beta///Crater Lake because there was forward momentum in the game-mode and while I realize that that will never happen because development for Dust 514 is now against our religion, I still think it was a dumb idea to reduce the anti-rooftop counters to Orbital Strikes (now harder due to WP increase) and Dropships without providing something else in return. Welcome back dude. On CCP's defense... Rattati and them didn't do so bad with this one. At least the Sniper Rifles put down a good bit easier. The Tactical is a nice little 6-shot demon, with better stability. The sights are mostly improved. Nice changes. I'm still not sniping anymore, though. Redline sniping is MOSTLY fixed with this little change. Players deep in the redline are hardly going to hit anything beyond their homepoint (depending on the map of course). But you still have them in the redline anyway. It was nice to see sniper rifles get their absolute first rebalance, EVER. They are more dangerous, and I still see them function decently in competent hands. It's sad that proper long range sniping is dead in this game, but at least if you do pick up a sniper rifle to take someone out, it will NOT let you down. The Charge sniper rifle got a massive base damage buff, and a crazy headshot bonus, so pesky Sentinel snipers can be killed. Calmando snipers hit very hard, naturally. All damage bonuses considered. The sniper rebalance is bittersweet. EDIT: Yes, the range was cut to curb redline sniping. Let no one convince you otherwise. Rendering wasn't a problem after you gave the game a few moments to load sprites and models at range. I really want someone to pull a screenshot of what a target looks like at 550m so we can show the non-snipers just how hard it is to effectively land a headshot. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17128	Posted - 2014.10.06 03:58:00 - [80] - Quote Faquira Bleuetta wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Sure, but do so as a -sniper-. An M16 now has longer effective range than a Sniper Rifle in Dust 514. I don't understand why there couldn't have just been a high damage/low range variant added on that could have made everyone happy. An M16 has a longer effective range than every weapon in Dust 514 (and many many many other games) Your point? Also Fiction vs Science Fiction vs Non-fiction. just imagine the Caldari sniper rifle in Arma 3 with the efficient range off 12000 m We're going to need a GPS Scope for that one. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Assault Rifles =// Unlocked

Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 847	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:09:00 - [81] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So far the feedback on the new rifles said we hit the nail on the end with the damage. New Tactical Magazine Size is beloved. Winged dots have mixed reactions Circle dots on Tactical are not that well loved. Rifle Ammo skill useless. Charge Rifle ammo lamented at bit; players have adapted and learned to not burn thier shots all up. Counter sniper behaviors are evolving Newer long range sniper behaviors are also evolving. Field sniping population is up and behaviors and new sniping spots in field are also constantly evolving and has not yet full settled down. Fitting meta is also changing a bit too. Range Subject has been a hot iron. How much aurum do I have to buy to get body shot sniping back into the game? With lag / framerate issues headshots are a luxury, especially in PC. Count the percentage of headshots, in this limited high end competitive game mode yielded from sniper rifles, and it will become clear the intended buff does next to nothing when it "really matters". Limiting the charge sniper rifle clip size, effectively castrated this effective skillful gameplay, and replaced it with a "lucky bullet" mechanic. Nobody wants to rely on a "lucky bullet" to hold down an objective. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5051	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:15:00 - [82] - Quote Matches seem to be much more fun now that snipers had to come out of the redline. I'm actually shot by snipers more often and killed by them 100% more often with the current changes. I believe the sniping that is happening is more effective overall. Perhaps it's less likely for a sniper to go without dying during a match, but that's okay in my opinion. I guess some people are going to need to find something else to boost their KDR. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 847	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:16:00 - [83] - Quote Also BULLET TRAILS for sniper rifles? Dust 514 is supposed to be team based gameplay, with communication. Adding trails to sniper rifle rounds? After a handful of kills it should be rather obvious where someone is sniping from. The complaint of not having enough good sniping locations wouldn't exist if this were not true. This is the cry of a solo player seeking a revenge kill and in my opinion is garbage. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3985	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:22:00 - [84] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Dust 514 is supposed to be team based gameplay, with communication. This is the cry of a solo player a¦á_a¦á Okay, so I have to be in a squad and communicate, but you don't. Okay. Sgt Kirk wrote: Can we just have all races sniper rifles please? Caldari - sniper rifle Amarr - laser rifle (?) Minmatar - precision rifle (unreleased) Gallente - ... What were the Gallente going to get? I don't think I have ever heard of such a thing. My advice to you, playa...
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 847	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:24:00 - [85] - Quote Snipers now render to everyone at MAXIMUM sniper rifle range now, yes? Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3800	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:26:00 - [86] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Various things Until we have the full maps and not tiny portions of the maps sniper rifles are TOO long range at 600m. the distances we are able to operate at are TINY. Bluntly if we had better maps (and more players per match) I'd be howling to have all of the weapon ranges multiplied somewhere between x5 and x10. all of them. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3985	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:27:00 - [87] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Bluntly if we had better maps (and more players per match) I'd be howling to have all of the weapon ranges multiplied somewhere between x5 and x10. all of them. Wouldn't that put the shotgun somewhere between 30m and 60m...? Plz no. My advice to you, playa...
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5051	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:28:00 - [88] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Also BULLET TRAILS for sniper rifles? Dust 514 is supposed to be team based gameplay, with communication. Adding trails to sniper rifle rounds? After a handful of kills it should be rather obvious where someone is sniping from. The complaint of not having enough good sniping locations wouldn't exist if this were not true. This is the cry of a solo player seeking a revenge kill and in my opinion is garbage. Most players in matches don't do anything about vehicles. I can't imagine very many take the time to call in a dropship and hunt down a sniper based on bullet trails. Sniping shouldn't be any more rewarding than it is now IMO. I'm very biased on the issue, but out of all the things that you'd want to incentivize in a FPS I think the least would be sniping. Range warfare should be a thing, but fun is generated in CQC fighting. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3800	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:29:00 - [89] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Bluntly if we had better maps (and more players per match) I'd be howling to have all of the weapon ranges multiplied somewhere between x5 and x10. all of them. Wouldn't that put the shotgun somewhere between 30m and 60m...? Plz no. when you have to cross 2 virtual kilometers to deliver the shot? Sh*t yeah! EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 848	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:29:00 - [90] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Dust 514 is supposed to be team based gameplay, with communication. This is the cry of a solo player a¦á_a¦á Okay, so I have to be in a squad and communicate, but you don't. Okay. Sgt Kirk wrote: Can we just have all races sniper rifles please? Caldari - sniper rifle Amarr - laser rifle (?) Minmatar - precision rifle (unreleased) Gallente - ... What were the Gallente going to get? I don't think I have ever heard of such a thing. eh? Snipers need communication! What's a sniper without a spotter(s)? or in the case of dust, A full squad of scouts with scanners.. NOT ALL THAT AMAZING. Give a sniper constant scans and call outs on high priority targets, and they contribute a great deal. (but not in terms of war points, that would be broken apparently) Sniping Dust 514 (video series)

Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 848	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:34:00 - [91] - Quote Snipers should be stealthy, this has in part already been accomplished by not having stupid obvious bullet trails, if the sniper poses an issue, there are hard counters and ways to find/kill them already existing within the game. Also if it hasn't been done yet, remove the MLT fit sniper fitting. (please) You know you want to. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5053	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:35:00 - [92] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Snipers should be stealthy, this has in part already been accomplished by not having stupid obvious bullet trails, if the sniper poses an issue, there are hard counters and ways to find/kill them already existing within the game. Also if it hasn't been done yet, remove the MLT fit sniper fitting. (please) You know you want to. I think they should change the light weapon operation requirement to L4 as well. In my opinion the worst thing a new player to this game could do is snipe right away. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 848	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:42:00 - [93] - Quote I've agreed to this for many months now. AND NEW PLAYER MLT SNIPERS MAKE UP A FAIR PERCENTAGE OF MY OWN KILLS. I AM ASKING FOR A NERF! TO MYSELF!! Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17412	Posted - 2014.10.21 18:09:00 - [94] - Quote btw sniper trails been in since closed beta. sarcasm /on As for the nerf request there is not much room to nerf it any further. Could reduce charge rifle magazine to 1. Double the charge time maybe. Reduce zoom on both charge and tactical. and the complaints about red line not getting fixed by the veterans makes nerfing its range to sub forge gun ranges too tempting; 250 275 and 300 meters! sarcasm /off :D CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Coleman Gray Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1237	Posted - 2014.10.21 18:37:00 - [95] - Quote Like how you left out the damage buff they got. Original Commando, before all you posers just saying
Canis Ferox Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 27	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:01:00 - [96] - Quote Ok so basically, you can fk off. That's the new stance on snipers. You're K/D is too high, so we're removing the range from your ranged weapon. Go cry in a.. oh you're playing something else already. We all know the sniper rifle can only be used from distances which in real life would be considered extreme: The sort of range you see in films like Shooter, Enemy at the Gates, but NOT the likely range used by snipers covering friendlies in the field, who tend to be a lot closer (as far as my armchair expertise goes). I want real sniper rifles. The new range is fine for me, but can I get something that I can aim at a target, say 250m away but also kill someone 30m away; something I can use quickly and then move, not sit on a hive in the hills all day relentlessly executing the same clueless, respawning noob and the occasional scout. I don't snipe. The action in this game is too intense and I like to be involved directly, not watching from the red zone. But the real reason is. The rifle is **. I know it is for balance, but why would anyone ever make a mag-fed rifle with only 3 Fuggin bullets per CliP!! It is boring. And I don't always have a mouse handy. I only counter-snipe. Something I will do begrudgingly if I die three times to the same sniper. And then I always win. Always, love sniping! Love it. I think people who do it all day are twats. Yup, that's you. I don't care anymore, sorry. Can we STOP rebalancing this game now please! +ö+ò+P+æ+Ö
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5058	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:15:00 - [97] - Quote Canis Ferox wrote: Ok so basically, you can fk off. That's the new stance on snipers. You're K/D is too high, so we're removing the range from your ranged weapon. Go cry in a.. oh you're playing something else already. We all know the sniper rifle can only be used from distances which in real life would be considered extreme: The sort of range you see in films like Shooter, Enemy at the Gates, but NOT the likely range used by snipers covering friendlies in the field, who tend to be a lot closer (as far as my armchair expertise goes). I want real sniper rifles. The new range is fine for me, but can I get something that I can aim at a target, say 250m away but also kill someone 30m away; something I can use quickly and then move, not sit on a hive in the hills all day relentlessly executing the same clueless, respawning noob and the occasional scout. I don't snipe. The action in this game is too intense and I like to be involved directly, not watching from the red zone. But the real reason is. The rifle is **. I know it is for balance, but why would anyone ever make a mag-fed rifle with only 3 Fuggin bullets per CliP!! It is boring. And I don't always have a mouse handy. I only counter-snipe. Something I will do begrudgingly if I die three times to the same sniper. And then I always win. Always, love sniping! Love it. I think people who do it all day are twats. Yup, that's you. I don't care anymore, sorry. Can we STOP rebalancing this game now please! What good would it do to stop balancing the game? That would be really stupid. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Canis Ferox Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 27	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:16:00 - [98] - Quote Binoculars and Tagging Binoculars, telescopes, things wot allow you to see far without using a rifle scope. Soldiers have 'em now, why not in the future? I am a scout and I play like a scout. I actually 'scout' I don't engage unless I have advantage, I don't shotgun cloak 'n runoft, I don't use knifes. I keep at range, hack in silence and keep good comms with my teammates. Great aren't I? I just want some binoculars, so I can spot for snipers and tanks and everyone else. I also need to be able to TAG targets: The technology is already there within the game and it is broken: A squad leader can call out a target, such as an HAV and it'll stay highlighted for all to see forever. That doesn't make sense - how can the scanner keep track of something it cannot detect? But what I suggest is better and fair. If you have a foe in sight with a red triangle overhead you should be able to 'tag' him - highlight him so he appears as a priority target on your allies' radars. It makes tactical sense, it is fair, it is a communication and warning device: It is cool. Once he is without range of all scanners he appears normal again. But tanks are way too sneaky: They are big, loud, noisy but if one ducks in cover for a second it disappears from your radar: this is silly. It should be tracked and obvious - once you've seen it and as long as it is in range it MUST be visible; how can it not be? Also it should take at least 3 seconds to fade away - even with headphones I cannot tell the direct a tank is in - that is due to lack of comms between your in game character to you the user not in game perception and must be rectified. this is not a balance - it is a mechanic fault fix +ö+ò+P+æ+Ö
Canis Ferox Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 27	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:24:00 - [99] - Quote Quote: "What good would it do to stop balancing the game? That would be really stupid." It's done man. it is DONE. It is balanced enough. It'll do. it's mostly fine! Focus on new content, new gamemodes, new weapons, events, design, matchmaking - exciting things! Not the little, fiddly, tiny, microscopic adjustment of a particular weapons rate of fire or the range of plasmas vs assault. ** that! every time they do it they just a whole new group of people over. The last change I approved was the Mass driver, but only because they hit it way too hard with the nerf hammer (1.3??) - and they only did that because it was silly OP before. It's roughly right now, can we get a new skin on a map please? OR some rain effects instead of just either dimness or volcanic eruption? or how about some frikkin foliage**? I mean - why are we fighting over all these bits of background stage from 90s sci fi flicks anyway? It's like the staged moon landing up in here! +ö+ò+P+æ+Ö
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17416	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:27:00 - [100] - Quote Canis Ferox wrote: Ok so basically, you can fk off. That's the new stance on snipers. You're K/D is too high, so we're removing the range from your ranged weapon. Go cry in a.. oh you're playing something else already. We all know the sniper rifle can only be used from distances which in real life would be considered extreme: The sort of range you see in films like Shooter, Enemy at the Gates, but NOT the likely range used by snipers covering friendlies in the field, who tend to be a lot closer (as far as my armchair expertise goes). I want real sniper rifles. The new range is fine for me, but can I get something that I can aim at a target, say 250m away but also kill someone 30m away; something I can use quickly and then move, not sit on a hive in the hills all day relentlessly executing the same clueless, respawning noob and the occasional scout. I don't snipe. The action in this game is too intense and I like to be involved directly, not watching from the red zone. But the real reason is. The rifle is **. I know it is for balance, but why would anyone ever make a mag-fed rifle with only 3 Fuggin bullets per CliP!! It is boring. And I don't always have a mouse handy. I only counter-snipe. Something I will do begrudgingly if I die three times to the same sniper. And then I always win. Always, love sniping! Love it. I think people who do it all day are twats. Yup, that's you. I don't care anymore, sorry. Can we STOP rebalancing this game now please! We are never going to call of duty style based snipers; sorry. Tactical is the closest you're getting. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17416	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:29:00 - [101] - Quote Canis Ferox wrote: Binoculars and Tagging Binoculars, telescopes, things wot allow you to see far without using a rifle scope. Soldiers have 'em now, why not in the future? I am a scout and I play like a scout. I actually 'scout' I don't engage unless I have advantage, I don't shotgun cloak 'n runoft, I don't use knifes. I keep at range, hack in silence and keep good comms with my teammates. Great aren't I? I just want some binoculars, so I can spot for snipers and tanks and everyone else. I also need to be able to TAG targets: The technology is already there within the game and it is broken: A squad leader can call out a target, such as an HAV and it'll stay highlighted for all to see forever. That doesn't make sense - how can the scanner keep track of something it cannot detect? But what I suggest is better and fair. If you have a foe in sight with a red triangle overhead you should be able to 'tag' him - highlight him so he appears as a priority target on your allies' radars. It makes tactical sense, it is fair, it is a communication and warning device: It is cool. Once he is without range of all scanners he appears normal again. But tanks are way too sneaky: They are big, loud, noisy but if one ducks in cover for a second it disappears from your radar: this is silly. It should be tracked and obvious - once you've seen it and as long as it is in range it MUST be visible; how can it not be? Also it should take at least 3 seconds to fade away - even with headphones I cannot tell the direct a tank is in - that is due to lack of comms between your in game character to you the user not in game perception and must be rectified. this is not a balance - it is a mechanic fault fix Would love binoculars as equipment, maybe a modified scanner with zoom function and a tagging system. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 849	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:32:00 - [102] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Canis Ferox wrote: Ok so basically, you can fk off. That's the new stance on snipers. You're K/D is too high, so we're removing the range from your ranged weapon. Go cry in a.. oh you're playing something else already. We all know the sniper rifle can only be used from distances which in real life would be considered extreme: The sort of range you see in films like Shooter, Enemy at the Gates, but NOT the likely range used by snipers covering friendlies in the field, who tend to be a lot closer (as far as my armchair expertise goes). I want real sniper rifles. The new range is fine for me, but can I get something that I can aim at a target, say 250m away but also kill someone 30m away; something I can use quickly and then move, not sit on a hive in the hills all day relentlessly executing the same clueless, respawning noob and the occasional scout. I don't snipe. The action in this game is too intense and I like to be involved directly, not watching from the red zone. But the real reason is. The rifle is **. I know it is for balance, but why would anyone ever make a mag-fed rifle with only 3 Fuggin bullets per CliP!! It is boring. And I don't always have a mouse handy. I only counter-snipe. Something I will do begrudgingly if I die three times to the same sniper. And then I always win. Always, love sniping! Love it. I think people who do it all day are twats. Yup, that's you. I don't care anymore, sorry. Can we STOP rebalancing this game now please! We are never going to call of duty style based snipers; sorry. Tactical is the closest you're getting. Which nobody was asking for by the way. Nobody asked for an executioner style charge sniper rifle that one shots anything on a "lucky bullet". but that's the crap hand we've been dealt. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4641	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:33:00 - [103] - Quote I like the idea of Grappling HooksGÇª Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 849	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:38:00 - [104] - Quote Had a terrible scenario earlier today while playing Dust 514. I went to the 2nd ring on the orbital bombardment, in the city on bridge map. @ 375m away was the enemy supply depot.. meaning the rooftop there is 400m meaning I can't cover the back area near the objective meaning I can't cover their sniper covered hilltop next to their home point / red line This was my first experience being choked by the new range nerf. I was very unhappy. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 849	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:44:00 - [105] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Canis Ferox wrote: Binoculars and Tagging Binoculars, telescopes, things wot allow you to see far without using a rifle scope. Soldiers have 'em now, why not in the future? I am a scout and I play like a scout. I actually 'scout' I don't engage unless I have advantage, I don't shotgun cloak 'n runoft, I don't use knifes. I keep at range, hack in silence and keep good comms with my teammates. Great aren't I? I just want some binoculars, so I can spot for snipers and tanks and everyone else. I also need to be able to TAG targets: The technology is already there within the game and it is broken: A squad leader can call out a target, such as an HAV and it'll stay highlighted for all to see forever. That doesn't make sense - how can the scanner keep track of something it cannot detect? But what I suggest is better and fair. If you have a foe in sight with a red triangle overhead you should be able to 'tag' him - highlight him so he appears as a priority target on your allies' radars. It makes tactical sense, it is fair, it is a communication and warning device: It is cool. Once he is without range of all scanners he appears normal again. But tanks are way too sneaky: They are big, loud, noisy but if one ducks in cover for a second it disappears from your radar: this is silly. It should be tracked and obvious - once you've seen it and as long as it is in range it MUST be visible; how can it not be? Also it should take at least 3 seconds to fade away - even with headphones I cannot tell the direct a tank is in - that is due to lack of comms between your in game character to you the user not in game perception and must be rectified. this is not a balance - it is a mechanic fault fix Would love binoculars as equipment, maybe a modified scanner with zoom function and a tagging system. As for why make a weapon with 3 round magazine fed "clip" is nearly the same reason why there are one round weapon clips as well. Size of the bullet or charge can be freakishly enormous. its bad enough our current sniper rounds are almost as large as our heads with the energy packs. I really wish Judge (yes that guy) would have spearheaded sniping changes instead of you. The range nerf makes sniping, honestly? more of a gimmic now, or a genuine afterthought. This whole change was a major nerf, from the viewpoint of a sniper. YET AGAIN. AND ALWAYS. I honestly want to come back, but this !#@% was better before Delta. before the "Circle" or the "Plasma Sight" Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17420	Posted - 2014.10.21 21:31:00 - [106] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Had a terrible scenario earlier today while playing Dust 514. I went to the 2nd ring on the orbital bombardment, in the city on bridge map. @ 375m away was the enemy supply depot.. meaning the rooftop there is 400m meaning I can't cover the back area near the objective meaning I can't cover their sniper covered hilltop next to their home point / red line This was my first experience being choked by the new range nerf. I was very unhappy. Oh charge rifles are not meant for overwatch; they're designed to terminate known and located targets. Go with the ishukone (or thales) 450 meters higher ammo endurance comparatively nearly as lethal to most suits and much easier to place a round in one right after the other just don't trigger too early. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6767	Posted - 2014.10.21 23:22:00 - [107] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Had a terrible scenario earlier today while playing Dust 514. I went to the 2nd ring on the orbital bombardment, in the city on bridge map. @ 375m away was the enemy supply depot.. meaning the rooftop there is 400m meaning I can't cover the back area near the objective meaning I can't cover their sniper covered hilltop next to their home point / red line This was my first experience being choked by the new range nerf. I was very unhappy. Oh charge rifles are not meant for overwatch; they're designed to terminate known and located targets. Go with the ishukone (or thales) 450 meters higher ammo endurance comparatively nearly as lethal to most suits and much easier to place a round in one right after the other just don't trigger too early. Blah. The range nerf was bad but having different ranges for different variants is even worse. I don't want to have to think, "Oh, damn it, this counter-sniper is using a different variant then me. I guess I'm just ****ed because I brought this one instead of the one he has." The entire argument was that snipers were firing at people outside of their engagement ranges and now even other snipers are having that issue. It's an artificial limitation that just puts up a brand new barrier that wasn't necessary. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 855	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:13:00 - [108] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Had a terrible scenario earlier today while playing Dust 514. I went to the 2nd ring on the orbital bombardment, in the city on bridge map. @ 375m away was the enemy supply depot.. meaning the rooftop there is 400m meaning I can't cover the back area near the objective meaning I can't cover their sniper covered hilltop next to their home point / red line This was my first experience being choked by the new range nerf. I was very unhappy. Oh charge rifles are not meant for overwatch; they're designed to terminate known and located targets. Go with the ishukone (or thales) 450 meters higher ammo endurance comparatively nearly as lethal to most suits and much easier to place a round in one right after the other just don't trigger too early. 1. +50m is almost nothing. 2. Thale's should never be presented as a viable alternative for any situation (you cannot purchase these) 3. Ishukone has lower base damage requiring minimum 3 body shots for tanked scouts / medium size drop suits (average player) 4. The more shots you have to spend time aiming / missing at a target to induce death the less efficient you are. The damage difference between charge and standard sniper rifles when it comes to killing most targets requires at least 1-2 more bullets. Giving your target more opportunity to.. locate your position.. find cover.. call in a vehicle.. and come kill you. An infantry player could have easily abused this range reduction today by hitting up the supply depot, and playing around with my choke point. Like a dog with a shock collar being taunted and having things thrown at me from just outside my reach. This sucks. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 855	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:26:00 - [109] - Quote "Oh charge rifles are not meant for overwatch" get outta here! you're fired! haha.. no really. you break everything you touch, and aren't aware of it. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 855	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:56:00 - [110] - Quote "Oh charge rifles are not meant for overwatch" The first thing you say is they're 50m too short of being meant for overwatch. Do you know what 50m is? And how ridiculous that sounds? 50m is 1/12th of the original 600m sniper range (effectively nothing) If you told a sniper that their 600m sniper rifle wasn't "meant for overwatch" because let's say a 650m sniper rifle existed. How do you think anyone listening would react? The difference between 400-450m is of random to little benefit to the sniper. Not having the full 600m is enough to make the current 400m feel awful. Again you've taken 1/12th of the original sniping distance, and ascribing it to have enough value to determine overwatch. Although it looks good on paper to have a wide variety of ranges for these guns, they're all too short, and the ranges too insignificant. Practical application sucks, find another answer to your red line problems and stop taking it out on snipers. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)

Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 54	Posted - 2014.10.22 08:09:00 - [111] - Quote Can I request a tiny change for 1.9? In the weapon information, could the range be added under the 'Attributes' section? People who don't read the forums won't know the differences in ranges when they buy them for the first time.
PROPHET HELLSCREAM UNSVER UNITED 12	Posted - 2014.10.22 13:50:00 - [112] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: Can I request a tiny change for 1.9? In the weapon information, could the range be added under the 'Attributes' section? People who don't read the forums won't know the differences in ranges when they buy them for the first time. Yes this is true... it should be implemented... and again thx for delta, still and again, i think that kalakyota should be "reinvented (?)"... Hobby: Headshot on cloaked units
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6768	Posted - 2014.10.22 15:15:00 - [113] - Quote PROPHET HELLSCREAM wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: Can I request a tiny change for 1.9? In the weapon information, could the range be added under the 'Attributes' section? People who don't read the forums won't know the differences in ranges when they buy them for the first time. Yes this is true... it should be implemented... and again thx for delta, still and again, i think that kalakyota should be "reinvented (?)"... Should be, but likely won't, because it'd likely require a client update. Even though it's something we should have had in the 'Show Info' since day one and many (MANY) players complained about it. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 55	Posted - 2014.10.22 22:02:00 - [114] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: PROPHET HELLSCREAM wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: Can I request a tiny change for 1.9? In the weapon information, could the range be added under the 'Attributes' section? People who don't read the forums won't know the differences in ranges when they buy them for the first time. Yes this is true... it should be implemented... and again thx for delta, still and again, i think that kalakyota should be "reinvented (?)"... Should be, but likely won't, because it'd likely require a client update. Even though it's something we should have had in the 'Show Info' since day one and many (MANY) players complained about it. Can't they do it in 1.9?
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6771	Posted - 2014.10.23 05:38:00 - [115] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: PROPHET HELLSCREAM wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: Can I request a tiny change for 1.9? In the weapon information, could the range be added under the 'Attributes' section? People who don't read the forums won't know the differences in ranges when they buy them for the first time. Yes this is true... it should be implemented... and again thx for delta, still and again, i think that kalakyota should be "reinvented (?)"... Should be, but likely won't, because it'd likely require a client update. Even though it's something we should have had in the 'Show Info' since day one and many (MANY) players complained about it. Can't they do it in 1.9? Severely doubt it. They're probably in the process of wrapping it up for final deployment already. Even then, it's not a high enough priority to likely be considered, unfortunately. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17476	Posted - 2014.10.23 08:49:00 - [116] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: "Oh charge rifles are not meant for overwatch" The first thing you say is they're 50m too short of being meant for overwatch. Do you know what 50m is? And how ridiculous that sounds? 50m is 1/12th of the original 600m sniper range (effectively nothing) If you told a sniper that their 600m sniper rifle wasn't "meant for overwatch" because let's say a 650m sniper rifle existed. How do you think anyone listening would react? The difference between 400-450m is of random to little benefit to the sniper. Not having the full 600m is enough to make the current 400m feel awful. Again you've taken 1/12th of the original sniping distance, and ascribing it to have enough value to determine overwatch. Although it looks good on paper to have a wide variety of ranges for these guns, they're all too short, and the ranges too insignificant. Practical application sucks, find another answer to your red line problems and stop taking it out on snipers. 1 meter over another weapons max effective range is still immunity. Though with the fastest scout 0.09 seconds. I am pretty sure you remember sharp shooter's original skill and why it was removed despite that 5% of some of our side arms and rifles at the time that used it was 'nothing' as well. Leading to a large amounts of veteran immunity back then. 150 meters is only half of the previous advantage of 300 meters. Also the current spread is 350 meters, 400, and 450 for the tactical, charge, and standard respectively. The next closest weapon is 300 meters the forge gun and large railgun and few of the installation weapons. Not even projectile based weapons reach that far due to projectile popping well before even getting close to you. So your immunity advantages are 50, 100 and 150 meters. On the fastest scouts thats 5.2, 10.5, and 15.8 seconds which is entirely wrong because scouts don't carry forge guns.... fastest scouts immunity is upwards the area of 30+ seconds +human skill to aim. For the forge gunner starts around 14.2, 28.5, and 43.1 seconds+ forge gun charge time +human skill to aim. If an LAV or ADS or DS is after you; you were not stealthy enough and might deserve the incoming murder. Though lately bolt pistols been enough of an LAV defense. This hasn't really changed pre-delta days other than maybe the extreme 'black' zone snipers where nobody on the hostile team non-sniper could even shoot you without blowing up to red-line timer requiring an orbital strike as the only reliable response. If you are ever going to get that 600 meters back its going to be using severe amounts fall off damage. You're looking at scaling to as low as 0% (to which headshot bonus reflects afterwards) at 600 meters. The idea of 600 meter engagement ranges are dead; blame the game; blame the poor maps; blame the poor counterplay and chances are those slices are not going to be numbers anyone who enjoyed the previous rifles is going to like. The next thing that has upsetted me greatly over the feedback of the 600 range being gone is that there is no distinction in the excuses as to why 600 meters versus how easily the 1800 meters own excuses would fit just as fine in this game other than maybe the zoom function ceases to work past 0 (Dust/UE3 does this backwards over what most people think) I really would be more sympathetic to the 600 range if it weren't so but the 425 range had far better excuses that stacks up well against the 600 on both play and counter play. Having such massive reach flattens the player's game out extremely catering to very few acceptable play methodologies while immensely increasing the counter player's frustration in being able to do anything about it. As for effective ranges and max range stats the CPM been asking for a while so well see what happens. Having it in the SDE would be a start though. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2110	Posted - 2014.10.23 11:53:00 - [117] - Quote I am not really a full-time snipers sniper, but I have dabbled a little, however I will say I do think this was all handled a little ......humm rough shall we say? But you redline snipers only have yourselves to blame. That being said how about you god damn snipers actually MOVE position! Stop god damn camping you absolute anal mofos. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6772	Posted - 2014.10.23 15:26:00 - [118] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: -Snip- So, let me get this straight... If anyone says they actually liked the previous mechanics (range over damage) they're just making excuses..? And then you go on to say that it was mostly CCP's idea and the CPM just played an advisory role... Well, perhaps you should take into account what some of these excuse-makers are saying instead of shoe-horning them. That's entirely contrary to what your specialists are asking for. If you're playing the advisory role for just the one side then how is that in any way balanced..? "Having such massive reach flattens the player's game out extremely catering to very few acceptable play methodologies while immensely increasing the counter player's frustration in being able to do anything about it. " ^^ This argument does not change with current ranges either. In fact, as I'll demonstrate below, the current ranges just made this argument even more profound. ^^ Look, I'll be blunt with you, the 'immunity' argument is just dumb when you consider these new ranges because of the fact that you've now provided immunity for snipers against other snipers with those ranges. It's a hypocritical argument to suggest that reducing the ranges from 600 to 450 meters will somehow stop this "immunity" because -even then- it's still got immunity from almost all other weapons, including the Large Railgun since it received it's range nerf. What's worse is that the immunity argument is now exacerbated because, as previously mentioned, you would need to have a counter-sniper fitted with the exact same -variant- (let alone weapon) to properly engage and dispatch the problem sniper due to "immunity". If anything the logical course of action would have been to flatten -all- of the sniper variants to a similar range so that they could properly engage one another. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]


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