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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1847	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:28:00 - [1] - Quote I hate to say this since I spent so much time advocating for the pistol changes but the Bolt Pistol needs to be tuned down a bit. It has by far the longest range of the pistols and has such massive alpha damage that it is a bit unbalanced. Sure you have to aim, but 250+ damage per shot before the headshot modifier means I kill starter fits and most scouts in 2 shots. That is really far too powerful. A damage reduction of 10% would be a nice start then incremental changes to tweak its damage output as needed to make it reasonable. Now with more evil.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3145	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:49:00 - [2] - Quote Scouts should die fast when you shoot them. Being fast and undetectable means that there should be no sympathy for bitching when you pop them with a sidearm. Its nice there is a way to execute the bastards now. Militia fits die if you fart too hard nearby, and more the point, most players abandon them at the earliest opportunity if they are smart.
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1929	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:09:00 - [3] - Quote It is a skill weapon and deserves its buff Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando V, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3120	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:14:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Scouts should die fast when you shoot them. Being fast and undetectable means that there should be no sympathy for bitching when you pop them with a sidearm. Its nice there is a way to execute the bastards now. Militia fits die if you fart too hard nearby, and more the point, most players abandon them at the earliest opportunity if they are smart. Two shot a shotgun scout with a flaylock. It's like saying fck you with fireworks. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3149	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:21:00 - [5] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Two shot a shotgun scout with a flaylock. It's like saying fck you with fireworks. I cannot like this statement enough. Scouts should be fragile and die when they get caught. Let the hurting start. Commissar Breakin commands executions of scouts.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1847	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:43:00 - [6] - Quote I agree that it takes some skill to use but it is still a bit too powerful. All that range and that much alpha? It just needs its damage dialed back a bit to prevent it from becoming a flavour of the month. I'm not advocating a nerf but a tweak. Now with more evil.
Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 683	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:43:00 - [7] - Quote I have Bolt Pistol to prof 3 now and I think it is a great and quite balanced pistol, except for one thing though: the headshot bonus. Too many times when I'm hipfiring and missing 3 shots I still win the fight because of one lucky headshot. I think that multiplier has to get reduced again, maybe even to what it was before the buff. You have to post numbers and math to be taken seriously. // @JebusMcKing
xAckie Ghost. Mob 453	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:07:00 - [8] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: I have Bolt Pistol to prof 3 now and I think it is a great and quite balanced pistol, except for one thing though: the headshot bonus. Too many times when I'm hipfiring and missing 3 shots I still win the fight because of one lucky headshot. I think that multiplier has to get reduced again, maybe even to what it was before the buff. yeah, i think this is the key thing.
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 37	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:08:00 - [9] - Quote I would like to show a comparison between my old sidearm, STD Breach Scrambler Pistol, and my new side arm STD Bolt Pistol. In both cases I chose the weapon for PG fitting reasons with high alpha headshot damage. Alpha-Damage Headshot Analysis: charlie STD BREACH SCRAMBLER PISTOL DMG: 128 HEADSHOT : 375% TOTAL: 480 delta STD BREACH SCRAMBLER PISTOL DMG: 145 HEADSHOT: 375% TOTAL: 543.75 delta STD BOLT PISTOL DMG: 229 HEADSHOT: 250% TOTAL: 572.5 With this I am pretty happy migrating to the bolt pistol from the scrambler, in delta, as a backup weapon. However.. it's really a pain to use, compared to the scrambler. The charge up before the first shot especially makes it tough on me, others might argue the limited clip size is an issue. The range is nothing to laugh at, either. Take what you will from the data, and whether it is really OP or just fine.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1850	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:02:00 - [10] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: I would like to show a comparison between my old sidearm, STD Breach Scrambler Pistol, and my new side arm STD Bolt Pistol. In both cases I chose the weapon for PG fitting reasons with high alpha headshot damage. Alpha-Damage Headshot Analysis: charlie STD BREACH SCRAMBLER PISTOL DMG: 128 HEADSHOT : 375% TOTAL: 480 delta STD BREACH SCRAMBLER PISTOL DMG: 145 HEADSHOT: 375% TOTAL: 543.75 delta STD BOLT PISTOL DMG: 229 HEADSHOT: 250% TOTAL: 572.5 Thank you for taking the time to put together the numbers on this as it clearly highlights my issue with the weapon. It has more range than the scrambler pistol and higher damage potential. This is an issue. Normally I would make the argument that DPS is king but in this case, where the alpha damage numbers are so large that surviving even a few shots is an issue, I think we need to think about alpha potential vs range in addition to DPS vs range. The bolt pistol, with its long range should have lower damage potential than an equivalent shorter range weapon. The breach scrambler pistol is a good comparison here since it is both shorter range and of the same variant (breach) as the bolt pistol. A 10% damage reduction would keep the weapon extremely useful but make it far more balanced. Now with more evil.


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8024	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:14:00 - [11] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: I would like to show a comparison between my old sidearm, STD Breach Scrambler Pistol, and my new side arm STD Bolt Pistol. In both cases I chose the weapon for PG fitting reasons with high alpha headshot damage. Alpha-Damage Headshot Analysis: charlie STD BREACH SCRAMBLER PISTOL DMG: 128 HEADSHOT : 375% TOTAL: 480 delta STD BREACH SCRAMBLER PISTOL DMG: 145 HEADSHOT: 375% TOTAL: 543.75 delta STD BOLT PISTOL DMG: 229 HEADSHOT: 250% TOTAL: 572.5 Thank you for taking the time to put together the numbers on this as it clearly highlights my issue with the weapon. It has more range than the scrambler pistol and higher damage potential. This is an issue. Normally I would make the argument that DPS is king but in this case, where the alpha damage numbers are so large that surviving even a few shots is an issue, I think we need to think about alpha potential vs range in addition to DPS vs range. The bolt pistol, with its long range should have lower damage potential than an equivalent shorter range weapon. The breach scrambler pistol is a good comparison here since it is both shorter range and of the same variant (breach) as the bolt pistol. A 10% damage reduction would keep the weapon extremely useful but make it far more balanced. It still has lower dps and hard to apply damage due to charge up, plus very small clip. We are keeping tabs on it for a tweak though. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1851	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:19:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It still has lower dps and hard to apply damage due to charge up, plus very small clip. We are keeping tabs on it for a tweak though. Thank you for saying you are doing so. I am, of course, aware that its DPS is lower but I really feel like you guys are undervaluing range when making range vs damage comparisons. At any rate, I have great faith in your ability to analyze the data we provide you through playing and will gladly step back from this for a while to see how everything pans out. Once again thank you Rattati and all the other Devs who's tags we will never see on the forums. Now with more evil.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 351	Posted - 2014.09.26 06:14:00 - [13] - Quote Im still not a fan of that thing. Hit detection seems to be moody at best. Either you hit or you dont though i aim down the sights and got the enemy centered. The charge up between each shot is not helpfull either. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 557	Posted - 2014.09.26 06:38:00 - [14] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: I agree that it takes some skill to use but it is still a bit too powerful. All that range and that much alpha? It just needs its damage dialed back a bit to prevent it from becoming a flavour of the month. I'm not advocating a nerf but a tweak. do you think sniper rifles have too much range and too much alpha?
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 262	Posted - 2014.09.26 06:47:00 - [15] - Quote Bolt Pistol....more like BULL**** Pistol. I think the damage is way to high. Got hit by 3 shots of those at close range by some proto stomper....I had no chance and i was stacking ehp modules to decent levels too. Maybe he had DMG mods or something...way to harsh. 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 557	Posted - 2014.09.26 06:56:00 - [16] - Quote Chief-Shotty wrote: Bolt Pistol....more like BULL**** Pistol. I think the damage is way to high. Got hit by 3 shots of those at close range by some proto stomper....I had no chance and i was stacking ehp modules to decent levels too. Maybe he had DMG mods or something...way to harsh. what were you wearing?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9552	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:00:00 - [17] - Quote In my case, it didn't matter if the Bolt Pistol was firing spit balls. I still die in my 197 EHP scout suit. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8027	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:11:00 - [18] - Quote Reducing ROF a little is the option we prefer - it is overperforming, the data is clear "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7638	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:13:00 - [19] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It still has lower dps and hard to apply damage due to charge up, plus very small clip. We are keeping tabs on it for a tweak though. Thank you for saying you are doing so. I am, of course, aware that its DPS is lower but I really feel like you guys are undervaluing range when making range vs damage comparisons. At any rate, I have great faith in your ability to analyze the data we provide you through playing and will gladly step back from this for a while to see how everything pans out. Once again thank you Rattati and all the other Devs who's tags we will never see on the forums. CCP has always had the difficulty of balancing Range vs. Damage. Easiest way to think about it is not just range Vs. Damage but Ease of Damage Application vs. Damage. Sure the Ion Pistol does more DPS than it Bolt but it's range is small and is confined there. Compare this to the Scrambler that has barely less DPS with more range, better bonus to headshots, higher alpha and generally just better damage applications....especially easier. Now, I'm not saying this to talk about nerfing or buffing the Bolt Pistol. Your comment just got me in one of my annoyed moods about CCP's difficult comprehension of Range vs Damage. Carry on Clone. P.S. Just saw Rattati's post above mine. Apparently it was overpower-performing and he knows what he's doing. A breath a fresh air! Something's wrong when you regret Things that haven't happened yet
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1855	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:22:00 - [20] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: do you think sniper rifles have too much range and too much alpha? You clearly haven't read one of my posts in a sniping thread before but let me sum up my opinion for you. Sniper rifles are broken because of thier ability to get a reward (kills) with too little risk (thanks to their range). This breaks the risk reward relationship that is the halmark of this game and what makes it fun for all players. So, basically, yes. I do think that for their range sniper rifles have too long of range. DeathwindRising wrote: my issue with it is that its become my main weapon and my rail rifle has become my sidearm/finisher. anything outside bolt pistol range gets the RR treatment. i dont want to see the bolt pistol nerfed No one wants to see it nerfed. That is silly. We do want all the weapons to be balanced though. Also remember this part of the forum is supposed to be larger than any individual player's likes and dislikes. It really is about us trying to suggest things that will improve the game for the entire community. Now with more evil.

CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1528	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:26:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: I would like to show a comparison between my old sidearm, STD Breach Scrambler Pistol, and my new side arm STD Bolt Pistol. In both cases I chose the weapon for PG fitting reasons with high alpha headshot damage. Alpha-Damage Headshot Analysis: charlie STD BREACH SCRAMBLER PISTOL DMG: 128 HEADSHOT : 375% TOTAL: 480 delta STD BREACH SCRAMBLER PISTOL DMG: 145 HEADSHOT: 375% TOTAL: 543.75 delta STD BOLT PISTOL DMG: 229 HEADSHOT: 250% TOTAL: 572.5 Thank you for taking the time to put together the numbers on this as it clearly highlights my issue with the weapon. It has more range than the scrambler pistol and higher damage potential. This is an issue. Normally I would make the argument that DPS is king but in this case, where the alpha damage numbers are so large that surviving even a few shots is an issue, I think we need to think about alpha potential vs range in addition to DPS vs range. The bolt pistol, with its long range should have lower damage potential than an equivalent shorter range weapon. The breach scrambler pistol is a good comparison here since it is both shorter range and of the same variant (breach) as the bolt pistol. A 10% damage reduction would keep the weapon extremely useful but make it far more balanced. It still has lower dps and hard to apply damage due to charge up, plus very small clip. We are keeping tabs on it for a tweak though. the bolt pistol is fine and balanced right now its not even really a good sidearm to switch to in a gun fight. its very easy to kill players who are not that good and difficult to kill skilled players so it seems balanced. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
CamClarke 0uter.Heaven 135	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:31:00 - [22] - Quote It's probably overperforming due to the same reason shotguns are overperforming. Alpha wins every time if you're accurate, and especially if the enemy is unaware of you.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1855	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:36:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Reducing ROF a little is the option we prefer - it is overperforming, the data is clear Excellent. This is a great solution. Now with more evil.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3185	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:39:00 - [24] - Quote CamClarke wrote: It's probably overperforming due to the same reason shotguns are overperforming. Alpha wins every time if you're accurate, and especially if the enemy is unaware of you. Alpha from surprise is not a bad thing per se. Alpha being completely undetectable is bad though. Honestly the scanning system is more at fault for that.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1855	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:55:00 - [25] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CamClarke wrote: It's probably overperforming due to the same reason shotguns are overperforming. Alpha wins every time if you're accurate, and especially if the enemy is unaware of you. Alpha from surprise is not a bad thing per se. Alpha being completely undetectable is bad though. Honestly the scanning system is more at fault for that. So true. I intend to start a fix ewar thread very soon once I've flushed my ideas. Now with more evil.
Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 686	Posted - 2014.09.26 08:16:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Reducing ROF a little is the option we prefer - it is overperforming, the data is clear Reducing ROF by how much? Honestly, I think I'd prefer a slight damage reduction because a ROF nerf will make the BoP even harder to handle and it already is kinda tricky to use. Maybe reduce damage and increase clipsize by one, wouldn't that be a kind of ROF nerf? What about a headshot bonus reduction instead? You have to post numbers and math to be taken seriously. // @JebusMcKing
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 557	Posted - 2014.09.26 08:19:00 - [27] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: do you think sniper rifles have too much range and too much alpha? You clearly haven't read one of my posts in a sniping thread before but let me sum up my opinion for you. Sniper rifles are broken because of thier ability to get a reward (kills) with too little risk (thanks to their range). This breaks the risk reward relationship that is the halmark of this game and what makes it fun for all players. So, basically, yes. I do think that for their range sniper rifles have too long of range. then i dont understand the role of sniper rifles. if a sniper rifle doesnt have great range range then it isnt a sniper rifle. if you cant kill with a sniper rifle at range, then what do you think sniper rifles should be for in your opinion? a sniper has historically been effective by its ability to demoralize the enemy. IMO a sniper causes fear. i dont not fear snipers in dust 514. so the role of a sniper is broken.
CamClarke 0uter.Heaven 136	Posted - 2014.09.26 08:28:00 - [28] - Quote Agreed, Mobius, eWar is probably the biggest thing that is making certain weapons and suits overperform. A fair number of my solo Bolt Pistol kills since Delta dropped (as in not softening them with a Shotgun first, no nearby teammates firing on them) have been sneak attacks, and most of the rest from people backing out of Shotgun range. For the record, most of this was on a 1 Dampener, 1 Precision Amarr Scout ak.0 (don't judge, if you can't beat em join em).
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1855	Posted - 2014.09.26 08:32:00 - [29] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: do you think sniper rifles have too much range and too much alpha? You clearly haven't read one of my posts in a sniping thread before but let me sum up my opinion for you. Sniper rifles are broken because of thier ability to get a reward (kills) with too little risk (thanks to their range). This breaks the risk reward relationship that is the halmark of this game and what makes it fun for all players. So, basically, yes. I do think that for their damage sniper rifles have too long of range. then i dont understand the role of sniper rifles. if a sniper rifle doesnt have great range range then it isnt a sniper rifle. if you cant kill with a sniper rifle at range, then what do you think sniper rifles should be for in your opinion? a sniper has historically been effective by its ability to demoralize the enemy. IMO a sniper causes fear. i dont not fear snipers in dust 514. so the role of a sniper is broken. No one fears them. That is a problem for sure. But we can't kill them either. Also a problem. The real issue here is that most snipers choose to snipe from the redline, where they are extremely challenging (and sometimes impossible) to kill. Their range needs to drop, to get them out of the redline and they need to be able to kill (the current stats for damage are actually quite nice as far as that is concerned). Drop the range down to the point where they can't cover a letter from the redline and then balance damage from there. As far the sniper rifles in this game having any resemblance to real sniper rifles I think you need to just throw that idea out the window for the following reasons: 1) The maps are not large enough to accommodate for realistic sniper weapons. 2) The way the physics engine handles sniper rilfes does not allow for travel time, bullet drop, or windage removing any challenge from sniping. 3) Having a redline and realistic sniper rifles would make the weapon have zero risk (which should never even be an option) and removing the redline would just lead to dominant teams camping enemy MCC and ground spawns (which used to happen all the time). 4) Games are supposed to be fun for everyone and, lets face it, real weapons including sniper rilfes, are not created around the idea of an enemy having an enjoyable, fun, and fair combat experience. Multiplayer games on the other hand, need to include all these elements to make people want to play them. Now with more evil.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1855	Posted - 2014.09.26 08:36:00 - [30] - Quote CamClarke wrote: Agreed, Mobius, eWar is probably the biggest thing that is making certain weapons and suits overperform. A fair number of my solo Bolt Pistol kills since Delta dropped (as in not softening them with a Shotgun first, no nearby teammates firing on them) have been sneak attacks, and most of the rest from people backing out of Shotgun range. For the record, most of this was on a 1 Dampener, 1 Precision Amarr Scout ak.0 (don't judge, if you can't beat em join em). I eagerly await your input once I post my ewar balance thread. Now with more evil.

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 557	Posted - 2014.09.26 08:44:00 - [31] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: do you think sniper rifles have too much range and too much alpha? You clearly haven't read one of my posts in a sniping thread before but let me sum up my opinion for you. Sniper rifles are broken because of thier ability to get a reward (kills) with too little risk (thanks to their range). This breaks the risk reward relationship that is the halmark of this game and what makes it fun for all players. So, basically, yes. I do think that for their damage sniper rifles have too long of range. then i dont understand the role of sniper rifles. if a sniper rifle doesnt have great range range then it isnt a sniper rifle. if you cant kill with a sniper rifle at range, then what do you think sniper rifles should be for in your opinion? a sniper has historically been effective by its ability to demoralize the enemy. IMO a sniper causes fear. i dont not fear snipers in dust 514. so the role of a sniper is broken. No one fears them. That is a problem for sure. But we can't kill them either. Also a problem. The real issue here is that most snipers choose to snipe from the redline, where they are extremely challenging (and sometimes impossible) to kill. Their range needs to drop, to get them out of the redline and they need to be able to kill (the current stats for damage are actually quite nice as far as that is concerned). Drop the range down to the point where they can't cover a letter from the redline and then balance damage from there. As far the sniper rifles in this game having any resemblance to real sniper rifles I think you need to just throw that idea out the window for the following reasons: 1) The maps are not large enough to accommodate for realistic sniper weapons. 2) The way the physics engine handles sniper rilfes does not allow for travel time, bullet drop, or windage removing any challenge from sniping. 3) Having a redline and realistic sniper rifles would make the weapon have zero risk (which should never even be an option) and removing the redline would just lead to dominant teams camping enemy MCC and ground spawns (which used to happen all the time). 4) Games are supposed to be fun for everyone and, lets face it, real weapons including sniper rilfes, are not created around the idea of an enemy having an enjoyable, fun, and fair combat experience. Multiplayer games on the other hand, need to include all these elements to make people want to play them. the idea that games must always be fun isnt true. Eve Online is not a fun game. its a game where people have found fun causing misery to others. the redline needs to go. give sky spawns from anywhere we want within the current redline zones to combat camping. problem solved. if the bolt pistol get its ROF nerfed, then will the bolt pistol get another increase in damage to keep its overall dps?
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1857	Posted - 2014.09.26 08:55:00 - [32] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: the idea that games must always be fun isnt true. Eve Online is not a fun game. its a game where people have found fun causing misery to others. the redline needs to go. give sky spawns from anywhere we want within the current redline zones to combat camping. problem solved. if the bolt pistol get its ROF nerfed, then will the bolt pistol get another increase in damage to keep its overall dps? Eve online is fun in many different respects, causing misery is merely one of them. If it wasn't fun to do other things you'd only see trolls in game which would make it not fun, even for trolls. Plus there are other aspects of the Eve which are fun and don't involve hurting others. Getting rid of the redline really isn't going to happen any time soon. I'm pretty sure it would require a client side update, which aren't happening right now, and sky spawning would just turn tactical ground movement into suicide to flank tactics. Big enemy group approaching? No problem. Simply have your squad suicide, then sky spawn behind the enemy and a pack. I agree that getting rid of the redline would solve the issue but it would also start a whole bunch of other issues. As to the BP RoF reduction Ratatti never said a %, so I hope he is aiming at a lower number to start so he can make lost of small incremental changes to get things perfectly tuned. Also I'm guessing the RoF reduction is intended to cause a DPS reduction, so boosing damage would be counter productive. I could be wrong about his intentions though. Now with more evil.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 557	Posted - 2014.09.26 09:30:00 - [33] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: the idea that games must always be fun isnt true. Eve Online is not a fun game. its a game where people have found fun causing misery to others. the redline needs to go. give sky spawns from anywhere we want within the current redline zones to combat camping. problem solved. if the bolt pistol get its ROF nerfed, then will the bolt pistol get another increase in damage to keep its overall dps? Eve online is fun in many different respects, causing misery is merely one of them. If it wasn't fun to do other things you'd only see trolls in game which would make it not fun, even for trolls. Plus there are other aspects of the Eve which are fun and don't involve hurting others. Getting rid of the redline really isn't going to happen any time soon. I'm pretty sure it would require a client side update, which aren't happening right now, and sky spawning would just turn tactical ground movement into suicide to flank tactics. Big enemy group approaching? No problem. Simply have your squad suicide, then sky spawn behind the enemy and a pack. I agree that getting rid of the redline would solve the issue but it would also start a whole bunch of other issues. As to the BP RoF reduction Ratatti never said a %, so I hope he is aiming at a lower number to start so he can make lost of small incremental changes to get things perfectly tuned. Also I'm guessing the RoF reduction is intended to cause a DPS reduction, so boosing damage would be counter productive. I could be wrong about his intentions though. when i say sky spawns i mean, that you should be able to sky spawn into your staring area (basically the enemy would consider as your red line) and not anywhere on the map. the BP ROF nerf i would expect to nerf the BP overall handling and make it harder to apply its dps. i think its over performing because unlike the other pistols it has a scope and good range. but unlike a sniper rifle, it doesnt have sway or crazy kick to compensate for. they can increase damage again and nerf ROF and we will still keep our dps but now you must make each shot count even more.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1773	Posted - 2014.09.26 11:34:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Reducing ROF a little is the option we prefer - it is overperforming, the data is clear My bloody dragonfly Gallente scout is getting one shot by that thing. I totally accept that I am running it with no additional tank as I purely speed tank. I would like to see a small damage decrease, but if you insist on a RoF reduction, then I guess that will have to do at least that gives me more of a chance to escape. I will have to adapt. I would like to be at least able to survive one single body shot by that thing even if I am about dead. (militia grade, not even talking about anything better!) But as usual, really appreciate the time and effort you are putting in Rattati. I can only imagine how even more awesome this game could have been if you had been here 6-12 months ago ;-) "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 351	Posted - 2014.09.26 11:50:00 - [35] - Quote If you have issues with the bolt pistol killing how about you start to strafe left and right like every other guy is doing it? I havent beeing killed by a bolt pistol since the patch went live. Paper DPS and actually applying it are 2 different things. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 463	Posted - 2014.09.26 11:58:00 - [36] - Quote Things like this is why I hate this community.. NERF NERF NERF NERF! I liked the bolt pistol where it was in Charlie. I was able to use it effectively. You try fighting a laggie side stepper with a weapon with four shots you going to get owned. The gun is balanced on it's own, unless you include the community of Dust then it needs to be nerfed. You can't teach a community. We can't have nice things. #jaded Over 50 Million SP and almost full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/4
Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 687	Posted - 2014.09.26 12:16:00 - [37] - Quote My proposal would be to reduce BoP damage by 10% so ~most~ frontline starter fits (Amarr are screwed; but Medics should be fine) won't die to just two bodyshots of a STD BoP. Headshot bonus is still debatable, maybe reduce it to 200% from 250% so it'd still take 2 shots to kill a starter fit with a STD BoP. damage: -10% STD BoP damage: 229 -> 206 ADV BoP damage: 240.45 -> 216.4 PRO BoP damage: 251.9 -> 226.7 headshot bonus: 250% -> 200% STD BoP HEADSHOT damage: 572.5 -> 412 ADV BoP HEADSHOT damage: 601.12 -> 432.8 PRO BoP HEADSHOT damage: 629.75 -> 453.4 You have to post numbers and math to be taken seriously. // @JebusMcKing
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 565	Posted - 2014.09.26 12:30:00 - [38] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: the BP ROF nerf i would expect to nerf the BP overall handling and make it harder to apply its dps. i think its over performing because unlike the other pistols it has a scope and good range. but unlike a sniper rifle, it doesnt have sway or crazy kick to compensate for. they can increase damage again and nerf ROF and we will still keep our dps but now you must make each shot count even more. This. Nerfing the Bolt pistol by reducing it's ROF seems bad, because it will affect the handling charecteristics of the weapon. Now we have to make every one of those 4 bullets count even more. This increases the skill level for the weapon higher. Not good. The handling felt just right with a ROF of 150 RPM. Reduce the damage down a little from the high numbers 229 / 240 / 252. And give us one extra round in the clip from 4 to 5. Small compromises. Rattati said himself that once DPS over range was balanced they would move onto handling characteristics. Quick fixing the Bolt with a ROF adjustment, is going to throw the handling off. The slow blade penetrates the shield.
Jathniel G I A N T 1166	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:07:00 - [39] - Quote Lol the damn aim assist is the problem. You're fooling yourselves if you think the Bolt Pistol takes skill. Knock off it's aim assist, and then itll be a master weapon worth it's stats. Again you don't need to nerf damage, rof, or anything. Just kill its aim assist and you'll have a fine skill weapon. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5245	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:22:00 - [40] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Lol the damn aim assist is the problem. You're fooling yourselves if you think the Bolt Pistol takes skill. Knock off it's aim assist, and then itll be a master weapon worth it's stats. Again you don't need to nerf damage, rof, or anything. Just kill its aim assist and you'll have a fine skill weapon. When AA was introduced, Wolfman indicated that it could be tuned on a per weapon basis. I'm in agreement with Jathniel, and this should be technically feasible. - Bolt Operation III Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

Devadander Woodgrain Atari 115	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:40:00 - [41] - Quote My data should show that I have been using bolt since it dropped with reasonable success. I must admit.. I like the instagib on the unready scout But now it has way too much dakka Meet me in the middle, 5 shots 180-ish dmg. /extends hand "Tossin uplinks and runnin fer my life" ~ Gunny blownapart "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8049	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:52:00 - [42] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176136&find=unread "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 688	Posted - 2014.09.26 14:15:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Bolt Pistol Fire Interval to 0.5 from 0.44444 So a ~12,5% fire interval nerf. That does not sound too bad. We'll see if it is good enough to stop people from QQing. (I just went 13/0, 19/2, 16/3 with dual militia bolt pistols (clipsize 3) +2xDmg mods (hihihi)) You have to post numbers and math to be taken seriously. // @JebusMcKing
Fristname Family name The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 86	Posted - 2014.09.27 05:12:00 - [44] - Quote I feel hip fire should be penilised with a massive accracy (cant spell) drop by at least 50% because i can just hip fire a guy from 50m away ( random number ) how is that a skill weapon? A skill weapon should be harder to use than a simple point shoot dead Australian mercy worky.
RedPencil Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 92	Posted - 2014.09.27 05:23:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It still has lower dps and hard to apply damage due to charge up, plus very small clip. We are keeping tabs on it for a tweak though. Low dps but 1 shot kill (400 dmg+ with dmg mod and skill on body hit) Beware paper cut M[;..;]M
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 558	Posted - 2014.09.27 06:25:00 - [46] - Quote Devadander wrote: My data should show that I have been using bolt since it dropped with reasonable success. I must admit.. I like the instagib on the unready scout But now it has way too much dakka Meet me in the middle, 5 shots 180-ish dmg. /extends hand i like its stopping power. its been my main defense against scouts
Fristname Family name The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 86	Posted - 2014.09.27 08:52:00 - [47] - Quote Rate of fire nerf planned wont make a differance please just make its recoil make people do backflips and a decent accuracy nerf while moving and while hipfiring make a huge accuracy nerf and the aim down sights time like x2. Then it can be classed as a so called 'skill weapon' Australian mercy worky.
Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 689	Posted - 2014.09.27 11:05:00 - [48] - Quote Fristname Family name wrote: Rate of fire nerf planned wont make a differance please just make its recoil make people do backflips and a decent accuracy nerf while moving and while hipfiring make a huge accuracy nerf and the aim down sights time like x2. Then it can be classed as a so called 'skill weapon' No. Hipfire accuracy already is kinda unreliable, which already is a considerable downside for a weapon with only 4 shots in a clip. You have to post numbers and math to be taken seriously. // @JebusMcKing
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2869	Posted - 2014.09.27 11:26:00 - [49] - Quote I'm using it since it came out and i'm talking against my own interests, but you should tone down damage a bit. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 340	Posted - 2014.09.27 11:29:00 - [50] - Quote shaman oga wrote: I'm using it since it came out and i'm talking against my own interests, but you should tone down damage a bit. They are lowering the RoF iirc.

Zindorak 1.U.P 996	Posted - 2014.09.27 11:31:00 - [51] - Quote I like the weapon. My STD with 2 enhanced DMG mods dents any suit even the tankiest on sentinels Pokemon master! Death to all Swarm scrubs CCP please buff AScR and normal AR :(
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3239	Posted - 2014.09.27 12:04:00 - [52] - Quote Rate of fire nerf will affect the result. All of my bolt kills have been to the wire vs. Rifles. The difference of a tenth of a second would have killed me in all cases. This is using a standard bolt.
Finn Colman Immortal Guides 45	Posted - 2014.09.27 15:47:00 - [53] - Quote My Min M-1 was OHKed by a PRO Cal scout with a STD bolt pistol (538 hp), I'm not sure if it needs to be that powerful... The little Min with the little voice.
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 418	Posted - 2014.09.27 16:08:00 - [54] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It still has lower dps and hard to apply damage due to charge up, plus very small clip. We are keeping tabs on it for a tweak though. Thank you for saying you are doing so. I am, of course, aware that its DPS is lower but I really feel like you guys are undervaluing range when making range vs damage comparisons. At any rate, I have great faith in your ability to analyze the data we provide you through playing and will gladly step back from this for a while to see how everything pans out. Once again thank you Rattati and all the other Devs who's tags we will never see on the forums. ^THIS^ All Kaalakiota weapons need to be dialled down a bit. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 626	Posted - 2014.09.27 19:50:00 - [55] - Quote The fact I can get 20+ kills with Dual-Proto Bolt Pistols is mad. On Assault, no less. Only Dust player with all Proto Weapons Prof 1. 19/19. Pilot, Slayer, Logibro, Heavy, Scout, Tanker, AV'er. Everything.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 820	Posted - 2014.09.28 01:14:00 - [56] - Quote Denchlad 7 wrote: The fact I can get 20+ kills with Dual-Proto Bolt Pistols is mad. On Assault, no less. Yeah, but you died 30 times.. Admit it...
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 92	Posted - 2014.09.28 03:16:00 - [57] - Quote RATTATI. I just used it. In should be the FIRST THING looked at in echo. It is INSANELY OP. 229 damage for standard? That's sniper power. What were you thinking? Make the proto 230 and reduse the rest. It's INSANE. It performs better than a sniper(damage wise). 37 kills with nova knives
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 92	Posted - 2014.09.28 03:18:00 - [58] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Denchlad 7 wrote: The fact I can get 20+ kills with Dual-Proto Bolt Pistols is mad. On Assault, no less. Yeah, but you died 30 times.. Admit it... I believe him. I got 30+ with standard about an hour ago. On an assault. Only dying 9 times. 37 kills with nova knives
Tectonic Fusion 2245	Posted - 2014.09.28 04:17:00 - [59] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I agree that it takes some skill to use but it is still a bit too powerful. All that range and that much alpha? It just needs its damage dialed back a bit to prevent it from becoming a flavour of the month. I'm not advocating a nerf but a tweak. do you think sniper rifles have too much range and too much alpha? honestly, the only comment i have about it is that it makes a better sniper rifle. same damage per shot, but way better handling and no sway lets you use it at closer ranges alot better. i use the bolt pistol as an opener. get the first shot to equalize the enemy HP with mine and usually drop most of their shield hp. if they dont respond to the first shot then ill fire another and then finish then with my rail rifle. my issue with it is that its become my main weapon and my rail rifle has become my sidearm/finisher. anything outside bolt pistol range gets the RR treatment. i dont want to see the bolt pistol nerfed because its become a fantastic counter to scouts. theres finally a weapon that can stop them before they get into shotgun range. ive been wasting scouts all day that think they can just run up to me like before. assault scouts are officially dead with me. they simply pose no threat and they honestly can go back to their niche role again of stealth. The combat rifle and scrambler rifle have always been options to counter shotgun scouts...they also kill much quicker. (GIF)
Kaughst Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 612	Posted - 2014.09.28 06:33:00 - [60] - Quote I almost killed by one, please nerf it. You know you have at least thought about cow tipping. They know, and they're out to settle the score.

Jaran Vilktar Legacy of Kain 21	Posted - 2014.09.28 14:42:00 - [61] - Quote Honestly, I've used the Bolt Pistol only once since Delta came out and I really thought it was too good to be a sidearm. I've seen Logis running it as their main weapon because it's powerful and accurate enough over long distances (It's also pretty good at cqc) to 1-2 shot light and medium frames or even 3-4 shot heavies. My first impression of it after reading its info and using it for 1 match was "This thing is practically a handheld Sniper Rifle with faster reload that lets you quickscope!". Think about it, many have been attempting to quickscope with snipers for a really long time, especially new players, and now we finally have a weapon that has a small 1.00 damage difference compared to a STD Sniper that allows efficient quickscoping (Just to be clear, I suck at quickscoping). How about we stop calling this sidearm the "Bolt Pistol" and rename it the "Assault Sniper Rifle"? Because you know, that's EXACTLY what it is at this point. DUST 514 Is the first FPS I played actively for the PS3 and is my favorite FPS to this very day. :)
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1897	Posted - 2014.09.28 15:26:00 - [62] - Quote Kaughst wrote: I almost killed by one, please nerf it. Stop being an ass. If you look back through the posts CCP Rattati has already confirmed that this weapon is over-performing and will be dialed back slightly as a result. Your comments are in no way productive, funny, informed, or original so unless you have something meaningful to say I suggest you crawl back under your rock. Now with more evil.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3844	Posted - 2014.09.30 07:32:00 - [63] - Quote I had too much fun with the Bolt Pistol today. When I'm having too much fun with a standard sidearm, it's time to nerf. For me, it's a bit of a luck shot. I will either fail horribly with it, or kill three people in ten seconds. For me, it's probably not giving me too much of an advantage, but for a really skilled player, this thing is probably god mode. I think we'll get some great data during the sidearm event for balancing. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 53	Posted - 2014.09.30 08:30:00 - [64] - Quote lol since when was strife a little to the left or right skill I mean a scout only takes one shot and you can't miss a heavy. It may at one time been a skill weapon, but I assure you the strongest weapons in the game are never the skill weapons. It is a fallacy to say someone is skilled when they constantly min max... I am just saying if I fist fight a first grader I will win i.e. While you may have downed your opponent he was already outmatched. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 84	Posted - 2014.09.30 09:58:00 - [65] - Quote It's painful to say as I was really looking forward to the BoP, but its alpha damage are a bit too high. 10% reduction, with a 12% RoF decrease, and it may become much more balance^^ And don't get fooled, it isn't so hard to use Sorry for my bad english ^^
Mobius Kaethis molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 1906	Posted - 2014.09.30 10:01:00 - [66] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: It's painful to say as I was really looking forward to the BoP, but its alpha damage are a bit too high. 10% reduction, with a 12% RoF decrease, and it may become much more balance^^ And don't get fooled, it isn't so hard to use Yeah...That is kind of what I am thinking too. Lets see how the 12% RoF reduction plays out first though. It would be awful to get into the whole buff nerf yo-yo cycle again. Now with more evil.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3303	Posted - 2014.09.30 10:02:00 - [67] - Quote Im practicing my pistolmando powers. Bluntly let's see how rattati's rate of fire nerf goes. Tenths of a second can be critical, and if it's still overperforming then rattati will tweak again. It's what he does.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 825	Posted - 2014.09.30 12:34:00 - [68] - Quote Do the pistols have different AA values or Bullet Magnetism values than rifles? I think big issue for me with the BoltP (and SCP and probs IonP too) is the AA seems to do a hell of a lot of work. Case in point. Last night I was hanging out with my Bolt Pistol, and a Cal Scout sneaked up on me and shotgunned me in the back. I survived, immediately turned and fired my BP and caught the Scout with my first shot, I jumped back to get out of shotgun range, and fired again..... my reticule was pointing roughly at the position I had jumped from.... but the Cal Scout had moved (on my 36" tv) the scout was approximately 2 inches to the right of my reticule.. So how surprised was I when I hit him and he died? Not very.... Since the hotfix dropped I've been killing people with pistols after they have run around corners, hitting people with shots when they are nowhere near my reticule. Since the hotfix a number of people have died very unfairly to my pistols, died when they really shouldn't have. Now everytime I get killed by a pistol I can't help but feel that there was a very good chance I died unfairly too and that the shooter in no way deserved that kill.. Rattati, Any chance you could have a look to make sure things are behaving as intended?
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 55	Posted - 2014.09.30 20:04:00 - [69] - Quote We REALLY need to start looking at weapon balance with Aim Assist in mind. Many weapons are too strong because Aim Assist is involved, and would be fine with less. No one uses aim down sights for anything anymore, hip fire is always better, the bolt pistol is no exception (unless your target is completely still).
DEZKA DIABLO THE FOOTCLAN 705	Posted - 2014.09.30 20:44:00 - [70] - Quote Either change the gun damage , clip and capacity back to old but keep the rof, pg fix, reload and range. Or Keep it as is and have its damage values 175std 190adv 215proto Ive use it since birth and trust me its all you need to do. DONT EVER COMPLAIN, USE CAPS LOCK OR POINT OUT WHAT BROKEN WITH OUR GAME OR WE WILL DEFINITELY BAN YOUR ASS FOR 6 MONTHS

Devadander Woodgrain Atari 123	Posted - 2014.10.01 09:02:00 - [71] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I had too much fun with the Bolt Pistol today. When I'm having too much fun with a standard sidearm, it's time to nerf. For me, it's a bit of a luck shot. I will either fail horribly with it, or kill three people in ten seconds. For me, it's probably not giving me too much of an advantage, but for a really skilled player, this thing is probably god mode. I think we'll get some great data during the sidearm event for balancing. It's too broken to be used in the sidearm event. I LOVE the bolt pistol, but the damage is too high not the RoF. And 4 shots reeks. Keep RoF, tone dmg down, and go 5 shots. I have 30 fits that all start with State. 90% of them have had BP as side since it dropped. You guys are destroying what was already a finely tuned weapon. If you didn't have the eye for it you could always use Magsec. Please. "Tossin uplinks and runnin fer my life" ~ Gunny blownapart "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 123	Posted - 2014.10.01 09:14:00 - [72] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Reducing ROF a little is the option we prefer - it is overperforming, the data is clear Please watch. I can't echo this enough. http://youtu.be/-4pB4coPpH0?list=UUlbc3XILbKpyQGjsH9pgOgw "Tossin uplinks and runnin fer my life" ~ Gunny blownapart "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever
Mobius Kaethis molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 1919	Posted - 2014.10.01 16:59:00 - [73] - Quote Devadander wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Reducing ROF a little is the option we prefer - it is overperforming, the data is clear Please watch. I can't echo this enough. http://youtu.be/-4pB4coPpH0?list=UUlbc3XILbKpyQGjsH9pgOgw This was a video made prior to the side arm balancing. Not only has the weapon become much more powerful Rattati also loved what he saw in the video. Probably not the best thing to bring up when looking to convince the Devs to balance a weapon. Now with more evil.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 128	Posted - 2014.10.01 18:22:00 - [74] - Quote I don't want it balanced.. err rather it WAS balanced.. I want it nerfed it's too much now "Tossin uplinks and runnin fer my life" ~ Gunny blownapart "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever


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