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DeathwindRising wrote:

Mobius Kaethis wrote:

DeathwindRising wrote:

do you think sniper rifles have too much range and too much alpha?

You clearly haven't read one of my posts in a sniping thread before but let me sum up my opinion for you. Sniper rifles are broken because of thier ability to get a reward (kills) with too little risk (thanks to their range). This breaks the risk reward relationship that is the halmark of this game and what makes it fun for all players. So, basically, yes. I do think that for their damage sniper rifles have too long of range.

then i dont understand the role of sniper rifles. if a sniper rifle doesnt have great range range then it isnt a sniper rifle.

if you cant kill with a sniper rifle at range, then what do you think sniper rifles should be for in your opinion?

a sniper has historically been effective by its ability to demoralize the enemy. IMO a sniper causes fear.

i dont not fear snipers in dust 514. so the role of a sniper is broken.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1847	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:28:00 - [1] - Quote I hate to say this since I spent so much time advocating for the pistol changes but the Bolt Pistol needs to be tuned down a bit. It has by far the longest range of the pistols and has such massive alpha damage that it is a bit unbalanced. Sure you have to aim, but 250+ damage per shot before the headshot modifier means I kill starter fits and most scouts in 2 shots. That is really far too powerful. A damage reduction of 10% would be a nice start then incremental changes to tweak its damage output as needed to make it reasonable. Now with more evil.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1847	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:43:00 - [2] - Quote I agree that it takes some skill to use but it is still a bit too powerful. All that range and that much alpha? It just needs its damage dialed back a bit to prevent it from becoming a flavour of the month. I'm not advocating a nerf but a tweak. Now with more evil.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1850	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:02:00 - [3] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: I would like to show a comparison between my old sidearm, STD Breach Scrambler Pistol, and my new side arm STD Bolt Pistol. In both cases I chose the weapon for PG fitting reasons with high alpha headshot damage. Alpha-Damage Headshot Analysis: charlie STD BREACH SCRAMBLER PISTOL DMG: 128 HEADSHOT : 375% TOTAL: 480 delta STD BREACH SCRAMBLER PISTOL DMG: 145 HEADSHOT: 375% TOTAL: 543.75 delta STD BOLT PISTOL DMG: 229 HEADSHOT: 250% TOTAL: 572.5 Thank you for taking the time to put together the numbers on this as it clearly highlights my issue with the weapon. It has more range than the scrambler pistol and higher damage potential. This is an issue. Normally I would make the argument that DPS is king but in this case, where the alpha damage numbers are so large that surviving even a few shots is an issue, I think we need to think about alpha potential vs range in addition to DPS vs range. The bolt pistol, with its long range should have lower damage potential than an equivalent shorter range weapon. The breach scrambler pistol is a good comparison here since it is both shorter range and of the same variant (breach) as the bolt pistol. A 10% damage reduction would keep the weapon extremely useful but make it far more balanced. Now with more evil.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1851	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:19:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It still has lower dps and hard to apply damage due to charge up, plus very small clip. We are keeping tabs on it for a tweak though. Thank you for saying you are doing so. I am, of course, aware that its DPS is lower but I really feel like you guys are undervaluing range when making range vs damage comparisons. At any rate, I have great faith in your ability to analyze the data we provide you through playing and will gladly step back from this for a while to see how everything pans out. Once again thank you Rattati and all the other Devs who's tags we will never see on the forums. Now with more evil.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1855	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:22:00 - [5] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: do you think sniper rifles have too much range and too much alpha? You clearly haven't read one of my posts in a sniping thread before but let me sum up my opinion for you. Sniper rifles are broken because of thier ability to get a reward (kills) with too little risk (thanks to their range). This breaks the risk reward relationship that is the halmark of this game and what makes it fun for all players. So, basically, yes. I do think that for their range sniper rifles have too long of range. DeathwindRising wrote: my issue with it is that its become my main weapon and my rail rifle has become my sidearm/finisher. anything outside bolt pistol range gets the RR treatment. i dont want to see the bolt pistol nerfed No one wants to see it nerfed. That is silly. We do want all the weapons to be balanced though. Also remember this part of the forum is supposed to be larger than any individual player's likes and dislikes. It really is about us trying to suggest things that will improve the game for the entire community. Now with more evil.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1855	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:36:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Reducing ROF a little is the option we prefer - it is overperforming, the data is clear Excellent. This is a great solution. Now with more evil.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1855	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:55:00 - [7] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CamClarke wrote: It's probably overperforming due to the same reason shotguns are overperforming. Alpha wins every time if you're accurate, and especially if the enemy is unaware of you. Alpha from surprise is not a bad thing per se. Alpha being completely undetectable is bad though. Honestly the scanning system is more at fault for that. So true. I intend to start a fix ewar thread very soon once I've flushed my ideas. Now with more evil.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1855	Posted - 2014.09.26 08:32:00 - [8] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: do you think sniper rifles have too much range and too much alpha? You clearly haven't read one of my posts in a sniping thread before but let me sum up my opinion for you. Sniper rifles are broken because of thier ability to get a reward (kills) with too little risk (thanks to their range). This breaks the risk reward relationship that is the halmark of this game and what makes it fun for all players. So, basically, yes. I do think that for their damage sniper rifles have too long of range. then i dont understand the role of sniper rifles. if a sniper rifle doesnt have great range range then it isnt a sniper rifle. if you cant kill with a sniper rifle at range, then what do you think sniper rifles should be for in your opinion? a sniper has historically been effective by its ability to demoralize the enemy. IMO a sniper causes fear. i dont not fear snipers in dust 514. so the role of a sniper is broken. No one fears them. That is a problem for sure. But we can't kill them either. Also a problem. The real issue here is that most snipers choose to snipe from the redline, where they are extremely challenging (and sometimes impossible) to kill. Their range needs to drop, to get them out of the redline and they need to be able to kill (the current stats for damage are actually quite nice as far as that is concerned). Drop the range down to the point where they can't cover a letter from the redline and then balance damage from there. As far the sniper rifles in this game having any resemblance to real sniper rifles I think you need to just throw that idea out the window for the following reasons: 1) The maps are not large enough to accommodate for realistic sniper weapons. 2) The way the physics engine handles sniper rilfes does not allow for travel time, bullet drop, or windage removing any challenge from sniping. 3) Having a redline and realistic sniper rifles would make the weapon have zero risk (which should never even be an option) and removing the redline would just lead to dominant teams camping enemy MCC and ground spawns (which used to happen all the time). 4) Games are supposed to be fun for everyone and, lets face it, real weapons including sniper rilfes, are not created around the idea of an enemy having an enjoyable, fun, and fair combat experience. Multiplayer games on the other hand, need to include all these elements to make people want to play them. Now with more evil.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1855	Posted - 2014.09.26 08:36:00 - [9] - Quote CamClarke wrote: Agreed, Mobius, eWar is probably the biggest thing that is making certain weapons and suits overperform. A fair number of my solo Bolt Pistol kills since Delta dropped (as in not softening them with a Shotgun first, no nearby teammates firing on them) have been sneak attacks, and most of the rest from people backing out of Shotgun range. For the record, most of this was on a 1 Dampener, 1 Precision Amarr Scout ak.0 (don't judge, if you can't beat em join em). I eagerly await your input once I post my ewar balance thread. Now with more evil.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1857	Posted - 2014.09.26 08:55:00 - [10] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: the idea that games must always be fun isnt true. Eve Online is not a fun game. its a game where people have found fun causing misery to others. the redline needs to go. give sky spawns from anywhere we want within the current redline zones to combat camping. problem solved. if the bolt pistol get its ROF nerfed, then will the bolt pistol get another increase in damage to keep its overall dps? Eve online is fun in many different respects, causing misery is merely one of them. If it wasn't fun to do other things you'd only see trolls in game which would make it not fun, even for trolls. Plus there are other aspects of the Eve which are fun and don't involve hurting others. Getting rid of the redline really isn't going to happen any time soon. I'm pretty sure it would require a client side update, which aren't happening right now, and sky spawning would just turn tactical ground movement into suicide to flank tactics. Big enemy group approaching? No problem. Simply have your squad suicide, then sky spawn behind the enemy and a pack. I agree that getting rid of the redline would solve the issue but it would also start a whole bunch of other issues. As to the BP RoF reduction Ratatti never said a %, so I hope he is aiming at a lower number to start so he can make lost of small incremental changes to get things perfectly tuned. Also I'm guessing the RoF reduction is intended to cause a DPS reduction, so boosing damage would be counter productive. I could be wrong about his intentions though. Now with more evil.

Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1897	Posted - 2014.09.28 15:26:00 - [11] - Quote Kaughst wrote: I almost killed by one, please nerf it. Stop being an ass. If you look back through the posts CCP Rattati has already confirmed that this weapon is over-performing and will be dialed back slightly as a result. Your comments are in no way productive, funny, informed, or original so unless you have something meaningful to say I suggest you crawl back under your rock. Now with more evil.
Mobius Kaethis molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 1906	Posted - 2014.09.30 10:01:00 - [12] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: It's painful to say as I was really looking forward to the BoP, but its alpha damage are a bit too high. 10% reduction, with a 12% RoF decrease, and it may become much more balance^^ And don't get fooled, it isn't so hard to use Yeah...That is kind of what I am thinking too. Lets see how the 12% RoF reduction plays out first though. It would be awful to get into the whole buff nerf yo-yo cycle again. Now with more evil.
Mobius Kaethis molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 1919	Posted - 2014.10.01 16:59:00 - [13] - Quote Devadander wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Reducing ROF a little is the option we prefer - it is overperforming, the data is clear Please watch. I can't echo this enough. http://youtu.be/-4pB4coPpH0?list=UUlbc3XILbKpyQGjsH9pgOgw This was a video made prior to the side arm balancing. Not only has the weapon become much more powerful Rattati also loved what he saw in the video. Probably not the best thing to bring up when looking to convince the Devs to balance a weapon. Now with more evil.