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Michael Arck
5646
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Posted - 2014.09.21 01:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo.
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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CharacterNameWasTaken
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
49
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Posted - 2014.09.21 01:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo.
exactly like i said scouts ew bonuses should o.ly activate when the corresponding module is being run it would stop people from just tanking them. OOOO and what about nerd the shotgun BUT add a bonus to scouts (like the cloak) for using them. |
Michael Arck
5646
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Posted - 2014.09.21 01:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
I honestly didnt realize the problem until this event. Brick tanked scouts with agility, speed, high defense recovery and CRs-thats crazy. I was working on one scout and he kept running away, then regen, and then finish me off with his CR. The 1 on 1 battles are far more intense than facing a sentinel. Thats not right at all.
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1953
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Posted - 2014.09.21 01:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
There's always been slayer scouts. BUT, using in place of assault is not good. Scouts should be able to lock **** down. A skilled scout
is the best scout, a non-skilled/newbro scout is canon fodder. If hes skilled, he should be able to consistently rip your face of any day.
Scrub scouts are just annoying.
PSN Sil4ntChaozz
High-Funtioning Autistic Skater & Amatuer Parkour Practitioner
Minja Chef & Ganja Assassin
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CharacterNameWasTaken
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
50
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Posted - 2014.09.21 01:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:There's always been slayer scouts. BUT, using in place of assault is not good. Scouts should be able to lock **** down. A skilled scout
is the best scout, a non-skilled/newbro scout is canon fodder. If hes skilled, he should be able to consistently rip your face of any day.
Scrub scouts are just annoying.
yeah and i forgot to say in my original one reg plates still need a super penalty to scouts. |
Joel II X
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3535
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Haven't seen a QQ thread in a while, but I agree that it is a problem. What would you propose to fix said problem?
I'd remove the extra equipment and some CPU/PG. |
Michael Arck
5647
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:There's always been slayer scouts. BUT, using in place of assault is not good. Scouts should be able to lock **** down. A skilled scout
is the best scout, a non-skilled/newbro scout is canon fodder. If hes skilled, he should be able to consistently rip your face of any day.
Scrub scouts are just annoying.
Not in this capacity. More so sneaky, but to outright be involved in the frontline and rush points? Thats crazy. Again, I hadnt noticed this until today. Spartan mentioned it and I started watching the games I played more closely. They were filled withslayer scouts rushing through the frontlines with their CRs
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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Heimdallr69
Nyain San
General Tso's Alliance
3616
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Haven't seen a QQ thread in a while, but I agree that it is a problem. What would you propose to fix said problem?
I'd remove the extra equipment and some CPU/PG.
^ this no reason for them to have 2 equipment slots.
Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
4282
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
CharacterNameWasTaken wrote:PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:There's always been slayer scouts. BUT, using in place of assault is not good. Scouts should be able to lock **** down. A skilled scout
is the best scout, a non-skilled/newbro scout is canon fodder. If hes skilled, he should be able to consistently rip your face of any day.
Scrub scouts are just annoying. yeah and i forgot to say in my original one reg plates still need a super penalty to scouts.
I would prefer this to an equipment slot change.
Scout slayers are not slayers because of an extra EQ slot, but because of armor tanking.
You can always tell a Millford Minja
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Michael Arck
5648
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Haven't seen a QQ thread in a while, but I agree that it is a problem. What would you propose to fix said problem?
I'd remove the extra equipment and some CPU/PG.
Its not a QQ. When someone calls a thread QQ it is implied by the accuser and the ones whom feel the same that the OP simply refuses to find a counter which can be utilized. It implies butthurt.
This thread is none of the above. Slayer scouts make the matches highly imbalanced. This is a problem that needs to be addressed. Its amazing that a member can ask for a slayer fit and forum members suggest scouts. The term scout has no relation to slayer.
As far as remedy, Im not sure. I would like it to be remedied without gimping the role. Whatever it is, it should be done in a manner so that scouts stay in their role. Did we not do the same thing to the slayer logi? The same should be afforded to slayer scouts in the effort of balance.
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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OZAROW
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
1626
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:I honestly didnt realize the problem until this event. Brick tanked scouts with agility, speed, high defense recovery and CRs-thats crazy. I was working on one scout and he kept running away, then regen, and then finish me off with his CR. The 1 on 1 battles are far more intense than facing a sentinel. Thats not right at all.
Yea man I feel ya maybe scouts shouldn't be able to use modules and guns at the same time, maybe that would fix it, but then again b! Tches will always complain!
Yes, you just got rocked by a guy with a BOLT PISTOL and a pair of knives! !
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4879
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
You can't give invisibility, HP, speed, wallhacks, super jump height and paper thin hitbox to one suit. It's too much.
Yet I'm not willing to abandon the idea that people should be able to have a combat light frame suit. Some players are good at this and they deserve to play that playstyle. They just need to have the wallhacks and invisibility ripped from them.
Light frame suit needs a secondary class like both the medium and heavy frame do. |
Henrietta Unknown
CREATURES OF THE NIGHT
311
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
I could care less about nerfing the assault potential of scouts. I typically run eWar scouts. My biggest bane and the prime reason for adding at least one ferroscale is due to the brick tanked/dampened scouts that go up against me.
Nerf the Shield/Armor stacking abilities somehow (fitting, stats-wise, etc.) and I can run a "proper" scout without losing out to scrubs.
Henrietta Reborn
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Izlare Lenix
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
959
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Burst hmg will solve most of your slayer scout problems.
When I run heavy the only scouts I have issue with are true scouts. Fast, dampened, low hp using knives, shotguns and REs. But anti-heavy is a true scouts role which is why they excel at high alpha weapons.
If there are too many true scouts running around I switch back into my scout suit and I go hunting.
However, this is not happening to me often. In fact the very reason I trained hmg heavy is because there are so damn many hmg heavies running around especially in PC. Scouts are much less effective in PC when you are going against a full squad of Six Kin Bursts.
Scouts are not an issue but half or more of a PC team using burst hmgs is very much a problem.
Gun control is not about guns...it's about control.
The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
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BlazeXYZ
xCosmic Voidx
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
227
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo.
Your talking about caldari scouts right. That regen that small hitbox and that strafe. Like why would you even choose the caldari assault.
The Blazing Intellect Machine
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4879
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
I don't buy into the concept that a scout is supposed to be anti-heavy. I believe the scout is supposed to be anti-logi, as the logi is supposed to be the "soft" target while the scout is basically an opportunistic scoundrel with all the intel and stealth he needs to pounce on such prey.
I believe the heavy is anti-heavy, and the well-positioned assault/commando is anti-heavy. But the entire purpose of having a slow moving brick that is hard to position and keep fed ammunition is that he isn't easily removed through something as arbitrary and basic as rock-paper-scissors countering. He has too many movement drawbacks for that to make sense.
The scout being a complete and utter jackal when it comes to logistical assassination and equipment destruction makes a whole lot more sense though, especially as the scout is the only suit that can really detect all the bullshit the logi is putting down. |
137H4RGIC
Bloodline Rebellion
Public.Disorder.
246
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:You can't give invisibility, HP, speed, wallhacks, super jump height and paper thin hitbox to one suit. It's too much.
Yet I'm not willing to abandon the idea that people should be able to have a combat light frame suit. Some players are good at this and they deserve to play that playstyle. They just need to have the wallhacks and invisibility ripped from them.
Light frame suit needs a secondary class like both the medium and heavy frame do. I think covert ops should be specialized in cloak and getting behind enemy scanners to get the hacks. Spec ops is more geared toward ewar; passive scans ,scan range etc and remote explosives. Not so much cloaking. But it's a little slower and has more tank. Kinda like the commando for heavies. But the reciprocal for scouts. Thoughts?
EVE players? Good at Dust?! Let the indiscriminate slaughter of PC huggers begin >:)
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Michael Arck
5654
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Posted - 2014.09.21 03:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
BlazeXYZ wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. Your talking about caldari scouts right. That regen that small hitbox and that strafe. Like why would you even choose the caldari assault.
I love my stormtrooper. I gets busy in that suit when I want to.
The scouts Ive been seeing are mostly gallente though.
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6970
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Posted - 2014.09.21 03:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
CharacterNameWasTaken wrote:PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:There's always been slayer scouts. BUT, using in place of assault is not good. Scouts should be able to lock **** down. A skilled scout
is the best scout, a non-skilled/newbro scout is canon fodder. If hes skilled, he should be able to consistently rip your face of any day.
Scrub scouts are just annoying. yeah and i forgot to say in my original one reg plates still need a super penalty to scouts.
Real Men run 350 eHP Min Scouts
I got kicked out of the State War Academy for jury-rigging a contact nade launcher to my Rail Rifle
WINMATAR!
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Jarod Garamonde Jr
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
168
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Posted - 2014.09.21 03:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo.
Translation: "People are using emergent gameplay to make shock-troops out of scout suit users, and I am angry about it because I wasn't creative enough to think of it, first, so please nerf it into oblivion, even though I will squall like a little brat about everything and claim to hate this game and everyone who plays it!"
Anyone agree with my interpretation of his post?
Silly Infantrymen... CAS Requests are for Forward Observers...
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Mikel Arias
Challengers 506
11
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Posted - 2014.09.21 04:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
This makes me sad. I do understand why you complain about the scout slayers and why there is a need to do something about them; I like to play as a scout, and even if I am not an amazing scout, I do have my moments, and I believe that, as you all say, the scout should be something tactical (stealth, assasination, hacking), not something to fight in the frontlines. I also understand how annoying it is to die in the hands of a slayer scout, they are the worst enemy of normal scouts (in my opinion).
Anyway, I think that a way to solve this would be to reduce the cpu and/or pg in the suits (wait, dont get mad yet), and give fitting bonuses to the modules that are supposed to be used by a scout (cardiac regulators, kinetic catalyzers, range amplifiers, profile dampener, precision enhancers). Of course, there could be one or many things wrong with this, but I think it would be a way to discourage the use of excessive armor plates, or at least it would imply that those who choose to use a lot of armor would lose something (damage, precision, range, profile increase) in exchange.
As I said, there could be many things wrong with this, or maybe it just cant be done, I dont know, but maybe it could work? Im just trying to help and give some ideas, I dont even know if Rattati or someone else read this. So, thougths? Go easy, no need to be mean. |
iKILLu osborne
Z PLATOON CALDARI STATE PEACEMAKERS
316
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Posted - 2014.09.21 04:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
i run a cal scout shotty and a cal scout knifer so cpu/pg is of no concern to me, so nerf away you will just be thinning my only competition (besides dat burst, it needs fixed asap)
"yeah i fought the redline it took it only 13 seconds....."
fought scotty too but something went wrong
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Heimdallr69
Nyain San
General Tso's Alliance
3617
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Posted - 2014.09.21 04:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
iKILLu osborne wrote:i run a cal scout shotty and a cal scout knifer so cpu/pg is of no concern to me, so nerf away you will just be thinning my only competition (besides dat burst, it needs fixed asap)
Yeah so do shotguns  let's have a mlt shotgun 2 shot any proto suit that's not a heavy. At least the burst is adv/proto.
Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
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iKILLu osborne
Z PLATOON CALDARI STATE PEACEMAKERS
317
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Posted - 2014.09.21 04:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:iKILLu osborne wrote:i run a cal scout shotty and a cal scout knifer so cpu/pg is of no concern to me, so nerf away you will just be thinning my only competition (besides dat burst, it needs fixed asap) Yeah so do shotguns let's have a mlt shotgun 2 shot any proto suit that's not a heavy. At least the burst is adv/proto.
agreed m.shotgun needs nerfed hard and the damage progression between tiers needs fixed by lowered standard and advanced tiers by 3% and leaving proto where its at that way it offers a clear advantage over the other tiers
"yeah i fought the redline it took it only 13 seconds....."
fought scotty too but something went wrong
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
5062
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Posted - 2014.09.21 05:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:There's always been slayer scouts. BUT, using in place of assault is not good. Scouts should be able to lock **** down. A skilled scout
is the best scout, a non-skilled/newbro scout is canon fodder. If hes skilled, he should be able to consistently rip your face of any day.
Scrub scouts are just annoying. Not in this capacity. More so sneaky, but to outright be involved in the frontline and rush points? Thats crazy. Again, I hadnt noticed this until today. Spartan mentioned it and I started watching the games I played more closely. They were filled withslayer scouts rushing through the frontlines with their CRs
Assault Lite has been in decline since the Charlie Assault buffs, and for good reason; Assaults are now better at frontline slaying than Scouts. Absolutely, tanked Scouts were a problem. They may still be a problem. But let's try to keep things in perspective. Doesn't your buddy Spartan fly a Python?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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gustavo acosta
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
273
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Posted - 2014.09.21 05:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
The issue with running a scout as an assault suit is that there's no drawbacks to it. If I run my gal scout with pure armor tank I still get almost 40% dampened off of my profile, and a built in advanced precision enhancer.
If a logi tries to run as an assault, they're limited to only one weapon the assault suit is better in that respect.
If a heavy tries to run as an assault, they're limited in movement speed and do not have sufficient damage output to facilitate the amount of hp and low movement speed they have.
If a scout tries to run an assault they're are hindered by their lower hp, however when you consider the amount of speed, regen, and built-in E-war said hindrance can be overlooked, among other things a scout can tank said hindrance away, and beyond that they get the benefit of having an extra equipment slot.
Though scouts SHOULD be ABLE to perform the role of an assault suit, however hindrances should be put in place that stop the scout suit's ability to passively outperform the assault suit in terms of frontal assault. That doesn't mean a scout should NEVER beat an assault at frontal assault, but that the individual player should be relatively skilled at combat to do so...
Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault
Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
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Savage Mangler
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
115
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Posted - 2014.09.21 06:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Simple solution: make health mods interfere with dampening. You want that extra 200 armor? Take a 20% (just throwing a number out there, don't take the percentage at face value) dampening penalty. Sure assaults and heavys would take the drawback too, but let's face it, assaults and sents get scanned anyway. That way slayer scouts have a drawback.
-YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED-
"Good, then they'll know who killed them."
Keep your knives sharp....and your wits sharper.
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Boot Booter
Pure Evil.
927
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Posted - 2014.09.21 06:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sigh... As I've been saying for months, the problem lies in the higher regen scouts have. There is literally no reason the role of a scout should require super low shield delays and high recharge. Amarr scout > Caldari Assault in base shield regen
Also removing enemy markers from the hud to make eWar less of a wallhack would do wonders.
But I've given up on this topic.
What happened to the repair tool glow?
Why won't CCP answer?
Conspiracy?
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Savage Mangler
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
115
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Posted - 2014.09.21 06:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Sigh... As I've been saying for months, the problem lies in the higher regen scouts have. There is literally no reason the role of a scout should require super low shield delays and high recharge. Amarr scout > Caldari Assault in base shield regen Also removing enemy markers from the hud to make eWar less of a wallhack would do wonders. But I've given up on this topic.
I've just about given up on scouting in general. Unless I'm knifing fools, i'd rather play my amarr assault. Pity, I've gotncalscout to proto and I feel sick just looking at it.
-YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED-
"Good, then they'll know who killed them."
Keep your knives sharp....and your wits sharper.
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Mike Ox Bigger
Skill Shots
257
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Posted - 2014.09.21 06:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
First things first get rid of the scouts small hit box, make it the same as a medium. That will get rid of some of the quick strafing they do as you'll miss less.
Then for ewar, fix enchancers and dampners to give equal bonuses. So two complex enhancers is equal to two complex dampeners. |
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iKILLu osborne
Z PLATOON CALDARI STATE PEACEMAKERS
317
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Posted - 2014.09.21 07:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
Mike Ox Bigger wrote:First things first get rid of the scouts small hit box, make it the same as a medium. That will get rid of some of the quick strafing they do as you'll miss less.
Then for ewar, fix enchancers and dampners to give equal bonuses. So two complex enhancers is equal to two complex dampeners.
lol mike leave my hitbox alone, you know its the only thing that keeps my 200hp cal ass alive.
agree there is no reason i should have to fit 4 complex precision to beat 3 complex dampners,
"yeah i fought the redline it took it only 13 seconds....."
fought scotty too but something went wrong
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
1014
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Posted - 2014.09.21 07:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:You can't give invisibility, HP, speed, wallhacks, super jump height and paper thin hitbox to one suit. It's too much.
Yet I'm not willing to abandon the idea that people should be able to have a combat light frame suit. Some players are good at this and they deserve to play that playstyle. They just need to have the wallhacks and invisibility ripped from them.
Light frame suit needs a secondary class like both the medium and heavy frame do.
If armor plates/shield extenders increased the DB of scouts, would this be as much of a problem?
Also seems fair that if they want to use their scout passive, it should require a module to trigger it as a conduit to the system, or change it to an improved use of extenders precision etc, instead of having it base on the suit.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9493
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Posted - 2014.09.21 07:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
What about scouts like me whose primary weapon is not even a light weapon at all but rather a sidearm such as the Nova Knives? I'm a ninja after all and scouts are deserving of such a role. In a way, ninja knifers are slayers but not in the sense that you traditionally run and gun since ninja knifers prefer flanking and attacking from the behind picking out the weakest link or taking out lonely stragglers while also providing intel and hacking things.
I have to agree that scouts like the shotgun cloakies need be looked at and perhaps we need to make sure that scouts don't leave assaults behind like how the logi once did in the past to the assault and in some rare cases to the scout.
I have read many recommendations such as removing light slots and restricting scouts to using only sidearms, removing the extra equipment slot, penalties to fitting armor mods, etc. But none of these seem to be carefully thought out ideas. However, one idea in particular stood out to me as making the most sense without nerfing the scout suit too badly in the process. That idea is to have the Racial Scout Dropsuit Skill Book bonuses be converted from passive bonuses to efficacy bonuses similar to what you see with shield and armor efficacy bonuses today. The bonus would only kick in if the respective module is fitted. This way, it will encourage scouts to actually fit the modules rather than simply rely on the passive skill book bonuses alone such as how a Minmatar scout currently doesn't need to fit any code breakers to hack somewhat fast once you get the skill book to level V.
This will likely force me to make a choice. Do I want to fit my suit for maximum [insert role here] or do I brick tank it and lose the bonus to that role altogether until I finally decide to drop the tank and slap on the respective modules to use the bonus?
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Meee One
Hello Kitty Logistics
1179
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Posted - 2014.09.21 08:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
Scouts are running as 2 specialists.
They have equipment of support.
They have weapons and stats of killing.
Imagine if mediums worked the same way.
An assault as it currently is with 8 slots and 4 equipment,with a fitting reduction to both.
Crazy right?
Cal scouts regen faster than installations FFS.
Imagine if LAVs could outrep HAVs.
Yet scouts are ok?
Wrong!!!
Because i'm bored.
Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
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Scar Scrilla
424
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Posted - 2014.09.21 11:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo.
In the meantime, Burst HMGs shred everything to pieces. Who are u actually? You are the only person from the forums
I've never seen in any match. Have u ever heard of diversity? Let ppl make their suit setups as they wish, and stop the QQ.
But I agree, get either rid of the cloak or the second eq slot, but at the same time, nerf the ******* burst hmgs dominating everything...
"Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses"
" ... or grab a shotgun and REs." - UN1TE
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HOWDIDHEKILLME
Dying to Reload
573
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Posted - 2014.09.21 11:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Eliminate shared passive scans and see if is still an OP suit.
Sentinels don't share resistance, logi's don't share equipment bonus, commando's don't share damage bonus....
It was dumb when teams had shared vision, and it's still dumb in squads.
Lonewolf till I die
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Haerr
Legio DXIV
1435
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Posted - 2014.09.21 11:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Joel II X wrote:Haven't seen a QQ thread in a while, but I agree that it is a problem. What would you propose to fix said problem?
I'd remove the extra equipment and some CPU/PG. ^ this no reason for them to have 2 equipment slots.
I would very much prefer it if a cloak in one equipment slot is a requirement for a valid fitting.
Combine this with a higher CPU/PG cost for Cloaks (or at least move the STD and ADV cloak closer to the PRO one), and a flat 75% reduction in cloak fitting cost on scouts regardless of skill level.
To me it seems rather silly that I can fit PRO Light Weapon, PRO Grenade, 2 PRO equipments and still have decent tank on my scout suit.
Still if it easier to just make one equipment slot go away and reduce the CPU/PG on the Scout suits then I am fine with that as well. Provided you make Type-II suits available that have 2 equipment slots and no sidearm slot. |
Mejt0
The Only Survivor.
459
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 12:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
*Strong scout hate/qq detected* :).
Scouts are slayers. Logis are slayer. Everyone can be a slayer.
Now into the point. If scout run towards the prey and kills him, its enemy fault that hes been killed.
Its not about tanking, not about guns. Scouts have suprise attack. That give us everything we need.
Eg. No matter if scout have 200-600ehp. If hes not scanned/seen (by eyes or just by knowing hes around) he will take you down with SG/NK.
About militia sg. It should take down your proto. You think that you should be superrior to stuff under adv/proto? Nope.
Caldari Loyalist
Markiplier fan.
Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.
|
Cavani1EE7
FACTI0N WARFARE ARMY
257
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 12:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo.
The opinion of a pub player doesn't matter at all. No no. |
Michael Arck
5661
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 13:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cavani1EE7 wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. The opinion of a pub player doesn't matter at all. No no.
Just as much as a member from FWA, little man.
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
|
|
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Cavani1EE7
257
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 13:19:00 -
[41] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Cavani1EE7 wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. The opinion of a pub player doesn't matter at all. No no. Just as much as a member from FWA, little man.
How dare you compare FWA members to pub players like you, you inferior wight.
Looking for LAV BPO set
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Michael Arck
5661
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 13:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:*Strong scout hate/qq detected* :).
Scouts are slayers. Logis are slayer. Everyone can be a slayer.
Now into the point. If scout run towards the prey and kills him, its enemy fault that hes been killed.
Its not about tanking, not about guns. Scouts have suprise attack. That give us everything we need.
Eg. No matter if scout have 200-600ehp. If hes not scanned/seen (by eyes or just by knowing hes around) he will take you down with SG/NK.
About militia sg. It should take down your proto. You think that you should be superrior to stuff under adv/proto? Nope.
When I answer people threads, my answer varies. If I have noticed several posts of the OP showing signs of just complaining to complain, I say so. But I read their OP to make sure I understand their intent and what they are bringing to the table.
You lack all sensibility to afford me with such because you just summed it up as QQ after skimming through my posts. If you properly digested my opinion piece, then clearly you would have understood this is not a QQ. That is suggested in the line "I have killed them and they have killed me". I am telling you Im more than capable to be able to deal with the problem. If it doesnt change, I'll just learn how to rid the problem myself.
The entire point of the OP is simple, Dr. Phil. That the scout role should not be frontal assault players. Yes, every player can kill or slay. Why even waste energy stating such? Im not a moron here. Yet the point was missed in your assuming of the OP. Yes everyone can slay but it is the role that defines them. Their class which leads them to specific objectives that they are trained for.
Frontal assaults scouts should not be because they are playing outside of their role. With advantages to their setup designed for infiltration and recon, using that as a assault against players who do not receive the same advantages but are indeed playing an assault defined class seems right to you? Because everyone can fire a weapon? Because you think its QQ? Because its on the less than agile assault player against an agile, speedy, small hitbox scout who has brick tanked; that its completely on the assault player to succeed in that battle?
Please think before answering in any of my discussion threads now and in the future. Posts like yours are a waste of time. I rather hear from a brain that actually considered my words without resorting to common forum rebuttal that has no place here.
If they want to be assault go for assault. Scouts playing as assaults are wrong. We have been about balance for a while but now scouts are brought up again and now we should just deal with it.
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
|
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4889
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 13:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde Jr wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. Translation: "People are using emergent gameplay to make shock-troops out of scout suit users, and I am angry about it because I wasn't creative enough to think of it, first, so please nerf it into oblivion, even though I will squall like a little brat about everything and claim to hate this game and everyone who plays it!" Anyone agree with my interpretation of his post?
I wouldn't call it emergent gameplay. It doesn't take any kind of creativity to do what's being done. It was simply a natural result of having everything at your finger tips. |
Michael Arck
5661
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 13:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
Yes nothing about it is emergent. It can be defined as a exploit though.
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
|
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4889
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 13:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
I wouldn't go that far... it's not a exploit to simply abuse what is obvious. Usually there is something more sinister and unintentional behind an exploit.
Scouts are simply on steroids because CCP gave them a bottle of steroids. It's an open and shut case of having too much power at their finger tips. |
Michael Arck
5661
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 14:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:I wouldn't go that far... it's not a exploit to simply abuse what is obvious. Usually there is something more sinister and unintentional behind an exploit.
Scouts are simply on steroids because CCP gave them a bottle of steroids. It's an open and shut case of having too much power at their finger tips.
And before anyone goes into heavies again, yes, I do support the notion of the burst being reverted back to its previous stats.
A exploit is defined as taking what has been given and using it to your advantage. Though we humans associate the term exploit as something negative in tone, that does not mean it has no place in the statment that scouts being used as assaults are exploits.
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
|
gustavo acosta
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
277
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 19:19:00 -
[47] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:I wouldn't go that far... it's not a exploit to simply abuse what is obvious. Usually there is something more sinister and unintentional behind an exploit.
Scouts are simply on steroids because CCP gave them a bottle of steroids. It's an open and shut case of having too much power at their finger tips.
And before anyone goes into heavies again, yes, I do support the notion of the burst being reverted back to its previous stats. A exploit is defined as taking what has been given and using it to your advantage. Though we humans associate the term exploit as something negative in tone, that does not mean it has no place in the statment that scouts being used as assaults are exploits.
Listen man, I hate assault scouts as much as the next guy, but you shouldn't be so quick to brush them off as just "exploits." Though you are right that assault scouts are the product of people knowing that a scout can do the same things an assault can with no drawback, however they are more a product of the game's amazing concept.
That concept being that you can run your suit and you character as you wish, no matter how strange or viable/not viable. This game was built on that concept, however that does not necessarily mean that a suit outside of their intended role will be viable or not. The viability of a suit to perform roles outside, and even inside, what is intended should be entirely based on the individual players' skill.
That is not the case with assault scouts. Scouts simply have to act/fit as assaults for viability outside their role, this is where the imbalance is found. No drawbacks=No problem assaulting. Scouts need to become on the same level as heavies, in terms of acting as an assault suit(i.e. if a heavy runs around with light weapons they are not much of a threat when it comes to relatively skilled players, unless said heavy is very skilled in acting as an assault).
Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault
Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9502
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 19:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:I wouldn't go that far... it's not a exploit to simply abuse what is obvious. Usually there is something more sinister and unintentional behind an exploit.
Scouts are simply on steroids because CCP gave them a bottle of steroids. It's an open and shut case of having too much power at their finger tips.
And before anyone goes into heavies again, yes, I do support the notion of the burst being reverted back to its previous stats. A exploit is defined as taking what has been given and using it to your advantage. Though we humans associate the term exploit as something negative in tone, that does not mean it has no place in the statment that scouts being used as assaults are exploits.
According to CCP Games, an exploit is something that enables you to do something beyond what a given mechanic is suppose to enable you to do. In other words, if it's not intended by CCP, then it's very likely to be an exploit. Scouts are allowed to be used as assaults much like how a Logi is allowed to be an assault or how an assault is allowed to be a logi or a scout. It's just that you are not suppose to be as "effective" an assault in a scout suit as that of a regular assault if you fitted your scout as such. I think that's the main problem you're referring to. Scouts are allowed to act like assaults if we want to. We're just not suppose be better than a regular assault in the same class.
Again, a good recommendation is to make it so that we need to fit respective modules on the scout suits if we want to take advantage of the scout bonuses. The same could likely be applied to other classes as well. If you're running an EWAR scout, you shouldn't be using the EWAR bonus if you have no EWAR modules fitted. In the case of a Minmatar Scout which has no EWAR bonus, this would mean you will have to make a choice between fitting kinetic catalyers/profile dampeners and that of the code breakers. You would not be able to benefit from both.
But to me, the overall problem with scouts is not scouts with CRs but scouts with shotguns + cloaks. The cloaking mechanic is a bit broken still. There needs to be sufficient delay so that you will completely decloak before being able to shoot. I support the idea of requiring the cloak to finish decloaking before allowing any weapon to fire. In fact, the wrist projector on your left arm should stay up while decloaking. Once you are completely decloaked, you can pull out your weapon and immediately shoot. This will make it impossible for shotgunners to welp you before their cloak even has a chance to decloak and encourage a more tactical gameplay.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
65
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 19:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
I think the major issue is directly the role of scout.
Because right now i see scout more like the Stalkerish Assault Speedy powerhouse and DEFO not like a Scout.
We have here Assault what should be versatile.
We have hre Heavies an Comandoes what should be basicaly slower powerhouses.
We have here Logies what should be a ..logies with its supporting role.
But honestly how can i explain role of Scout what is defo not scoutish kind of reconnasaince support on field.
Right now they are, like i told upper, some wierd class of speedy assult Gonzaleses 
Why they dont have some more tactical/SCOUT role on battlefield instead be a stalkerish assault slayers of the EvE 
I Defo agree with dealy idea in problem about cloaking device, but still.
There should be some way to make Scout really Scout.
"The human being was not chosen to be a god..the god himself should become a human being."
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Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
812
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 19:41:00 -
[50] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo.
QQ maybe you should get some gun game in your life? You're just another bad player. According to your stats. Come wreck my face bro! |
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Heimdallr69
Nyain San
General Tso's Alliance
3625
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 19:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
I don't speak much anymore on this stuff cuz I don't want anything to become what assaults were.. Useless. But still a slight change is needed.
Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
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Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
812
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 19:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:I wouldn't go that far... it's not a exploit to simply abuse what is obvious. Usually there is something more sinister and unintentional behind an exploit.
Scouts are simply on steroids because CCP gave them a bottle of steroids. It's an open and shut case of having too much power at their finger tips.
And before anyone goes into heavies again, yes, I do support the notion of the burst being reverted back to its previous stats. A exploit is defined as taking what has been given and using it to your advantage. Though we humans associate the term exploit as something negative in tone, that does not mean it has no place in the statment that scouts being used as assaults are exploits. According to CCP Games, an exploit is something that enables you to do something beyond what a given mechanic is suppose to enable you to do. In other words, if it's not intended by CCP, then it's very likely to be an exploit. Scouts are allowed to be used as assaults much like how a Logi is allowed to be an assault or how an assault is allowed to be a logi or a scout. It's just that you are not suppose to be as "effective" an assault in a scout suit as that of a regular assault if you fitted your scout as such. I think that's the main problem you're referring to. Scouts are allowed to act like assaults if we want to. We're just not suppose be better than a regular assault in the same class. Again, a good recommendation is to make it so that we need to fit respective modules on the scout suits if we want to take advantage of the scout bonuses. The same could likely be applied to other classes as well. If you're running an EWAR scout, you shouldn't be using the EWAR bonus if you have no EWAR modules fitted. In the case of a Minmatar Scout which has no EWAR bonus, this would mean you will have to make a choice between fitting kinetic catalyers/profile dampeners and that of the code breakers. You would not be able to benefit from both. But to me, the overall problem with scouts is not scouts with CRs but scouts with shotguns + cloaks. The cloaking mechanic is a bit broken still. There needs to be sufficient delay so that you will completely decloak before being able to shoot. I support the idea of requiring the cloak to finish decloaking before allowing any weapon to fire. In fact, the wrist projector on your left arm should stay up while decloaking. Once you are completely decloaked, you can pull out your weapon and immediately shoot. This will make it impossible for shotgunners to welp you before their cloak even has a chance to decloak and encourage a more tactical gameplay.
Its rubbish Mak, they QQ if scouts tank they QQ about ewar they QQ cos they die. If they weren't crying about scouts it would be something else. To many pathetics playing this game.
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Lloyd Orfay
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 19:47:00 -
[53] - Quote
The thing is.... Scouts don't have a role.
The players using other suits of course may have to rely on another players to achieve an optimal survivability, isk, an sp gain.
Scout suits do not have any special functions to be exploited by squads and squads do not have anything they can exploit from scout suits. Scout suits do, in some way have the ability to actually scout for enemies or anything else (through the double equipment slot, which makes them on par with non minmatar logistics suits when an advanced suit is used) yet cloak has very high requirements. Because of this what the average scout suit user may have wanted to use (such as scanners) would have been dropped for the cloak. Scout suits do not have any other bonus but their pg/cpu reduction on cloak, which is still high. The main issue is how they can get their hands on light weapons as some of these are too exploitative when used to surprise attack other players. A scout really, would have minimal combat capability as they are suppost to collect information on enemy position's strength and weaknesses. Basically these "scouts" are just light assault suits with cloak... Some people have suggested to give them only sidearms, although players can still become problematic with high tier sidearms. This light assault cloaker suit really needs a facelift on its functions.
You see Ivan, when you hold peestol like me, you never shoot the inaccurate... For fear of shooting fingers!
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Louis Domi
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
665
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 19:52:00 -
[54] - Quote
Earlier today I went 52/3 with cal scout :)
Ghost Kaisar wrote:CharacterNameWasTaken wrote:PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:There's always been slayer scouts. BUT, using in place of assault is not good. Scouts should be able to lock **** down. A skilled scout
is the best scout, a non-skilled/newbro scout is canon fodder. If hes skilled, he should be able to consistently rip your face of any day.
Scrub scouts are just annoying. yeah and i forgot to say in my original one reg plates still need a super penalty to scouts. Real Men run 350 eHP Min Scouts
Real men run 270-290 ehp cal scout. |
Savage Mangler
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
121
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 19:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
Happy Violentime wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. QQ maybe you should get some gun game in your life? You're just another bad player. According to your stats. Come wreck my face bro!
So...you're QQ'ing about him making a point? Please, go back under your bridge.
-YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED-
"Good, then they'll know who killed them."
Keep your knives sharp....and your wits sharper.
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
65
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 19:56:00 -
[56] - Quote
Lloyd Orfay wrote:The thing is.... Scouts don't have a role.
The players using other suits of course may have to rely on another players to achieve an optimal survivability, isk, an sp gain.
Scout suits do not have any special functions to be exploited by squads and squads do not have anything they can exploit from scout suits. Scout suits do, in some way have the ability to actually scout for enemies or anything else (through the double equipment slot, which makes them on par with non minmatar logistics suits when an advanced suit is used) yet cloak has very high requirements. Because of this what the average scout suit user may have wanted to use (such as scanners) would have been dropped for the cloak. Scout suits do not have any other bonus but their pg/cpu reduction on cloak, which is still high. The main issue is how they can get their hands on light weapons as some of these are too exploitative when used to surprise attack other players. A scout really, would have minimal combat capability as they are suppost to collect information on enemy position's strength and weaknesses. Basically these "scouts" are just light assault suits with cloak... Some people have suggested to give them only sidearms, although players can still become problematic with high tier sidearms. This light assault cloaker suit really needs a facelift on its functions.
Agee with that role confusion
"The human being was not chosen to be a god..the god himself should become a human being."
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Louis Domi
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
665
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 19:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
Savage Mangler wrote:Happy Violentime wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. QQ maybe you should get some gun game in your life? You're just another bad player. According to your stats. Come wreck my face bro! So...you're QQ'ing about him making a point? Please, go back under your bridge.
Where can you find other mercs stats? |
hfderrtgvcd
466
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 20:09:00 -
[58] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Cavani1EE7 wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. The opinion of a pub player doesn't matter at all. No no. Just as much as a member from FWA, little man.
lol if only you knew
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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The Eristic
Dust 90210
648
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 20:26:00 -
[59] - Quote
Vanilla plate speed penalty multiplier based on frame type (something like .75x on heavy frames, 1x on mediums, 2x or even 3x on lights) + shield extender stacking penalty that increases scan profile per module stacked and per tier.
Reality is the original Rorschach.
Verily! So much for all that.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2375
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 20:32:00 -
[60] - Quote
The Eristic wrote:Vanilla plate speed penalty multiplier based on frame type (something like .75x on heavy frames, 1x on mediums, 2x or even 3x on lights) + shield extender stacking penalty that increases scan profile per module stacked and per tier.
No to shield extender penalty. It ruins minmitar and caldari scouts completely.
Instead, the penalties on plates and extenders should just be doubled on light frames.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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OZAROW
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
1629
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 20:36:00 -
[61] - Quote
Its the cloaks effectiveness not the suit, quit whinning.
Yes, you just got rocked by a guy with a BOLT PISTOL and a pair of knives! !
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
65
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 20:40:00 -
[62] - Quote
Actually Gavr1lo is right here, stacking should be put up on light ones.
Logic says you want run, you should be light.
But here is still issue with missconception of scouts role.
"The human being was not chosen to be a god..the god himself should become a human being."
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Cavani1EE7
FACTI0N WARFARE ARMY
261
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 20:45:00 -
[63] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Cavani1EE7 wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. The opinion of a pub player doesn't matter at all. No no. Just as much as a member from FWA, little man. lol if only you knew
That's the good part of posting in GD lolz |
bogeyman m
Minmatar Republic
410
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 20:53:00 -
[64] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Haven't seen a QQ thread in a while, but I agree that it is a problem. What would you propose to fix said problem?
I'd remove the extra equipment and some CPU/PG.
Nerf Scout overall CPU/PG, then give CPU/PG bonuses for EWAR modules. Fixed.
Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
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Omega Black Zero
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
95
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 21:04:00 -
[65] - Quote
The issues isn't as simple as cloaks, it's eWar coupled with the best movement abilities in the game. They can see you sooner and plan accordingly. Information is very important, and cloaks are only a gimmick at best, because it's not the cloaks that kills me, it's accurate detection and planning that kills me. I feel the scout has too much of both worlds and either needs to be divided into two roles or have eWar nerfed down or reduce the killing efficiency of running a scout (reduction in equipment slots would be a good start) |
axis alpha
Red Star.
EoN.
341
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 21:09:00 -
[66] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde Jr wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. Translation: "People are using emergent gameplay to make shock-troops out of scout suit users, and I am angry about it because I wasn't creative enough to think of it, first, so please nerf it into oblivion, even though I will squall like a little brat about everything and claim to hate this game and everyone who plays it!" Anyone agree with my interpretation of his post?
Translation Translation :
"Please stop qqing over my op scout it's the only crutch that makes me decent. Please everyone agree with me so my crutch is not nerfed into the ground"
We won't follow the deceiver.
You let this be your warning.
The path of the wretched is burning..
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
66
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 21:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
axis alpha wrote:Jarod Garamonde Jr wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. Translation: "People are using emergent gameplay to make shock-troops out of scout suit users, and I am angry about it because I wasn't creative enough to think of it, first, so please nerf it into oblivion, even though I will squall like a little brat about everything and claim to hate this game and everyone who plays it!" Anyone agree with my interpretation of his post? Translation Translation : "Please stop qqing over my op scout it's the only crutch that makes me decent. Please everyone agree with me so my crutch is not nerfed into the ground"
Scout should be recon class, not a stalkerish speedy version of assault suit.
Problem is with its role, basicaly scout is not fully formed like scout.
"The human being was not chosen to be a god..the god himself should become a human being."
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gustavo acosta
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
277
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 21:18:00 -
[68] - Quote
The scout role is that of stealth and intel(not passive intel, but intel). I didn't I'd have to explain that, but this thread has devolved greatly since the beginning and frankly it's making me sick.
Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault
Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
66
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Posted - 2014.09.21 21:24:00 -
[69] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:The scout role is that of stealth and intel(not passive intel, but intel). I didn't I'd have to explain that, but this thread has devolved greatly since the beginning and frankly it's making me sick.
But what we have here now is basicaly not too intelish, but actually more versatile class than "should be versatile" assault.
What is defo wrong.
What i remember from my training was recon should be unseen support to attack group and what we have right now is quite oposite.
I understand there is no proper role for scouts right now and thats reason why CCP should rework its role and possibilities.
Scouts are not scouts basicaly 
"The human being was not chosen to be a god..the god himself should become a human being."
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9505
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Posted - 2014.09.21 21:28:00 -
[70] - Quote
Omega Black Zero wrote:The issues isn't as simple as cloaks, it's eWar coupled with the best movement abilities in the game. They can see you sooner and plan accordingly. Information is very important, and cloaks are only a gimmick at best, because it's not the cloaks that kills me, it's accurate detection and planning that kills me. I feel the scout has too much of both worlds and either needs to be divided into two roles or have eWar nerfed down or reduce the killing efficiency of running a scout (reduction in equipment slots would be a good start)
Reducing EWAR is not the solution and neither is dividing roles.
The problem can be resolved from more than one angle if needed. In this case, in regards to the TACNET for EWAR scouts, someone once suggested that the chevrons over a target's head should not appear through the wall because it's not from direct line of sight however the chevron still appears on the minimap so that the EWAR scout can guess as to where the target is but still have to figure out whether the target is above them, below them, or on the same floor as they are.
The second solution is what was already mentioned. Require respective modules to be fitted in order to benefit from the suit's inherent bonuses. If I wear a suit that gives bonus to profile dampening, I will need to fit a dampener to benefit from that suit bonus. However, other bonuses from skills such as that of the Profile Dampening Skill Book that is NOT suit specific should still be effective with or without the respective mods since that bonus already applies to all classes and roles.
The final solution is fixing the cloak so that you can only switch to weapon when the cloak has finished decloaking.
All of these solutions could go hand-and-hand and combine so that scouts can still be effective but not be borderline FOTM anymore. Scouts could still run as assaults but just not be as good as a regular assault. Scouts could still run as a logi as well if they want but just not be as good as a logi.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9505
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Posted - 2014.09.21 21:34:00 -
[71] - Quote
bogeyman m wrote:Joel II X wrote:Haven't seen a QQ thread in a while, but I agree that it is a problem. What would you propose to fix said problem?
I'd remove the extra equipment and some CPU/PG. Nerf Scout overall CPU/PG, then give CPU/PG bonuses for EWAR modules. Fixed.
That is not a proper solution and it's sloppy. Please read my previous comment. Besides, some scout suits like the Minmatar Scout is already teetering at the very edge of PG/CPU demand for almost any module you put on it. Also, your solution doesn't address the problem with shotgun + cloakies which is a common thing right now.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
66
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Posted - 2014.09.21 21:36:00 -
[72] - Quote
Thats basicaly that.
Class shoul save its merits but..Cross Class should be never better than devoted class.
You hit the nail directly
"The human being was not chosen to be a god..the god himself should become a human being."
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
1791
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Posted - 2014.09.21 22:25:00 -
[73] - Quote
Scouts are given 2 sidearm slots. Light frames retain their light weapon slot.
You can have a cloak, or you can have a shotgun, but not both.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
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CUSE TOWN333
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1480
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Posted - 2014.09.21 22:53:00 -
[74] - Quote
axis alpha wrote:Jarod Garamonde Jr wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. Translation: "People are using emergent gameplay to make shock-troops out of scout suit users, and I am angry about it because I wasn't creative enough to think of it, first, so please nerf it into oblivion, even though I will squall like a little brat about everything and claim to hate this game and everyone who plays it!" Anyone agree with my interpretation of his post? Translation Translation : "Please stop qqing over my op scout it's the only crutch that makes me decent. Please everyone agree with me so my crutch is not nerfed into the ground" LOL bad players will hold on to something thats is OP for dear life.
KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
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Joel II X
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3548
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Posted - 2014.09.21 23:25:00 -
[75] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:bogeyman m wrote:Joel II X wrote:Haven't seen a QQ thread in a while, but I agree that it is a problem. What would you propose to fix said problem?
I'd remove the extra equipment and some CPU/PG. Nerf Scout overall CPU/PG, then give CPU/PG bonuses for EWAR modules. Fixed. That is not a proper solution and it's sloppy. Please read my previous comment. Besides, some scout suits like the Minmatar Scout is already teetering at the very edge of PG/CPU demand for almost any module you put on it. Also, your solution doesn't address the problem with shotgun + cloakies which is a common thing right now.
Minmatar have acceptable CPU, it's the PG that totally hurts the suit.
Would be nice to get that Nova Knife Fitting Optimization skill that we always wanted. |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
3297
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Posted - 2014.09.21 23:35:00 -
[76] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs. I want scouts to have access to two sidearms... it's not a popular option, but I feel it best places securely into the a agile-recon-EWAR role. Couple that with a small reduction in CPU/PG and we've got balance.
Michael Arck wrote:I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such. Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. From what I hear, nothing is set in stone for echo yet. There was talk of a logi/commando balance pass. We might not see scouts reviewed until foxtrot.
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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Zindorak
1.U.P
933
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Posted - 2014.09.22 00:13:00 -
[77] - Quote
I thinks scouts should be flies that are annoying and in your face and pressuring like they are now. But shotgun scouts those things shouldn't exist. They are scruby like the burst HMG
Pokemon master!
I suck at Tekken lol
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9507
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Posted - 2014.09.22 00:23:00 -
[78] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Scouts are given 2 sidearm slots. Light frames retain their light weapon slot.
You can have a cloak, or you can have a shotgun, but not both.
I will admit that this can give basic frame suits some kind of use for once, but I see flaws with this.
1. Light Frames are technically 1 tier below that of Scouts. If the Light Frame gets to have the light weapon but not the Scout, then going from Light Frame to Scout will be a downgrade rather than a upgrade especially considering how much SP is needed to invest into the Scout.
2. Light Frames don't have any inherent bonuses even if you train up the Racial Scout Skill Book to level V. Therefore you won't benefit from anything while wearing the suit.
3. The principle issue with scouts is not the suits being able to carry light weapons but rather how powerful they are with certain weapons such as the Shotgun. Your suggestion effectively punishes scouts just for the mere existence of one or two weapons on the field. I don't see anyone complaining about Scouts using Gallente Assault Rifles.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4895
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Posted - 2014.09.22 00:23:00 -
[79] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Omega Black Zero wrote:The issues isn't as simple as cloaks, it's eWar coupled with the best movement abilities in the game. They can see you sooner and plan accordingly. Information is very important, and cloaks are only a gimmick at best, because it's not the cloaks that kills me, it's accurate detection and planning that kills me. I feel the scout has too much of both worlds and either needs to be divided into two roles or have eWar nerfed down or reduce the killing efficiency of running a scout (reduction in equipment slots would be a good start) Reducing EWAR is not the solution and neither is dividing roles. The problem can be resolved from more than one angle if needed.
Apparently not, according to you. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9507
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Posted - 2014.09.22 00:26:00 -
[80] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Omega Black Zero wrote:The issues isn't as simple as cloaks, it's eWar coupled with the best movement abilities in the game. They can see you sooner and plan accordingly. Information is very important, and cloaks are only a gimmick at best, because it's not the cloaks that kills me, it's accurate detection and planning that kills me. I feel the scout has too much of both worlds and either needs to be divided into two roles or have eWar nerfed down or reduce the killing efficiency of running a scout (reduction in equipment slots would be a good start) Reducing EWAR is not the solution and neither is dividing roles. The problem can be resolved from more than one angle if needed. Apparently not, according to you.
I don't understand what you're trying to say.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4895
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Posted - 2014.09.22 00:29:00 -
[81] - Quote
Don't worry about it.
Maken Tosch wrote: Your suggestion effectively punishes scouts just for the mere existence of one or two weapons on the field. I don't see anyone complaining about Scouts using Gallente Assault Rifles.
Combinations make things good. Yes, you're being punished because you can manipulate a weapon better than anyone else. The alternative is to remove that weapon from the game, which isn't happening. The shotgun can't be nerfed further either, or it ceases to be viable in any way.
The only other thing you can do is effectively change the shotguns role to some sort of mid-range ghetto blaster with a slow rate of fire and a decent, but not overpowering, punch. Nova Knives then take over the role of point blank killing. |
Michael Arck
5674
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Posted - 2014.09.22 00:30:00 -
[82] - Quote
*Reads thread responses*
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9507
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Posted - 2014.09.22 00:38:00 -
[83] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Don't worry about it. Maken Tosch wrote: Your suggestion effectively punishes scouts just for the mere existence of one or two weapons on the field. I don't see anyone complaining about Scouts using Gallente Assault Rifles. Combinations make things good. Yes, you're being punished because you can manipulate a weapon better than anyone else. The alternative is to remove that weapon from the game, which isn't happening. The shotgun can't be nerfed further either, or it ceases to be viable in any way. The only other thing you can do is effectively change the shotguns role to some sort of mid-range ghetto blaster with a slow rate of fire and a decent, but not overpowering, punch.
The shotgun is very difficult to balance. I don't really know what's the main problem with shotguns (outside of the shotgun + cloak issue) since I don't use them. For this, I'll leave it to the shotgun experts to figure it out.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Michael Arck
5674
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Posted - 2014.09.22 00:42:00 -
[84] - Quote
Scar Scrilla wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. In the meantime, Burst HMGs shred everything to pieces. Who are u actually? You are the only person from the forums I've never seen in any match. Have u ever heard of diversity? Let ppl make their suit setups as they wish, and stop the QQ. But I agree, get either rid of the cloak or the second eq slot, but at the same time, nerf the ******* burst hmgs dominating everything...
The name ia shown, I am Michael Arck.
If you are trying to imply that Im just a forum warrior who talks about the game without knowledge, then you are wrong on both accounts.
What significant can be found in the belief that since you havent seen me in match, my opinion holds no weight?
But Ive seen you though and we've fought in a match. I did get you a couple of times as you have me.
I dont see the point of your post. Are you adding to the conversation?
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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Michael Arck
5674
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Posted - 2014.09.22 00:48:00 -
[85] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:I wouldn't go that far... it's not a exploit to simply abuse what is obvious. Usually there is something more sinister and unintentional behind an exploit.
Scouts are simply on steroids because CCP gave them a bottle of steroids. It's an open and shut case of having too much power at their finger tips.
And before anyone goes into heavies again, yes, I do support the notion of the burst being reverted back to its previous stats. A exploit is defined as taking what has been given and using it to your advantage. Though we humans associate the term exploit as something negative in tone, that does not mean it has no place in the statment that scouts being used as assaults are exploits. Listen man, I hate assault scouts as much as the next guy, but you shouldn't be so quick to brush them off as just "exploits." Though you are right that assault scouts are the product of people knowing that a scout can do the same things an assault can with no drawback, however they are more a product of the game's amazing concept. That concept being that you can run your suit and you character as you wish, no matter how strange or viable/not viable. This game was built on that concept, however that does not necessarily mean that a suit outside of their intended role will be viable or not. The viability of a suit to perform roles outside, and even inside, what is intended should be entirely based on the individual players' skill. That is not the case with assault scouts. Scouts simply have to act/fit as assaults for viability outside their role, this is where the imbalance is found. No drawbacks=No problem assaulting. Scouts need to become on the same level as heavies, in terms of acting as an assault suit(i.e. if a heavy runs around with light weapons they are not much of a threat when it comes to relatively skilled players, unless said heavy is very skilled in acting as an assault).
As I said before, the negative tone with the term exploit clouds the perspective.
The definition of exploit fits here whether you like the term or not. Doesnt mean Im butthurt and looking to nerf scouts into oblivion.
Just as much as anything in this game has been changed to maintain a defined role or ability of item, dropsuit, and weapons, the same should be done here in slayer scouts.
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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Michael Arck
5675
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Posted - 2014.09.22 00:53:00 -
[86] - Quote
Happy Violentime wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. QQ maybe you should get some gun game in your life? You're just another bad player. According to your stats. Come wreck my face bro!
Ok Im not a elite player. I dont drown away hours on Dust. Im not great with two thumbsticks.
Yet I am capable of killing you and working well with my squadmates.
People like you over compensate for reasons that I dont. Even if I was an elite, I definitely wouldnt have your small man arrogant attitude.
Dust 514 doesnt pay the rent or isnt something I can put on a resume. If Im not elite, I dont care. Wouldnt stop me from putting a bullet in your brain in match little boy.
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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BlazeXYZ
xCosmic Voidx
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
229
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Posted - 2014.09.22 00:56:00 -
[87] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Joel II X wrote:Haven't seen a QQ thread in a while, but I agree that it is a problem. What would you propose to fix said problem?
I'd remove the extra equipment and some CPU/PG. ^ this no reason for them to have 2 equipment slots.
Agreed +1. Scouts can currently be logis, assaults and be a scout.
The Blazing Intellect Machine
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Michael Arck
5675
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Posted - 2014.09.22 00:57:00 -
[88] - Quote
I want to thank everyone who offered their opinions in a constructive manner, offering various perspectives in this discussion. I didnt agree with all points and some I did, but I always respect mature objective postings.
Thank you for your time. I enjoyed reading your posts.
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9507
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Posted - 2014.09.22 00:58:00 -
[89] - Quote
BlazeXYZ wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Joel II X wrote:Haven't seen a QQ thread in a while, but I agree that it is a problem. What would you propose to fix said problem?
I'd remove the extra equipment and some CPU/PG. ^ this no reason for them to have 2 equipment slots. Agreed +1. Scouts can currently be logis, assaults and be a scout.
But they should have the ability to be used as assaults or logis. Just don't let them be better than an assault or logi in the same class.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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The Master Race
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2014.09.22 01:18:00 -
[90] - Quote
They should make it so they can only fit side arms I mean that is why they have stealth right is to be able to choose position.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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HOWDIDHEKILLME
Dying to Reload
577
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Posted - 2014.09.22 01:36:00 -
[91] - Quote
Since there has been so much talk about performing outside of roles.
Maybe heavys should not be able to run light weapons, only commandos should snipe/swarm/re, only logis can run injectors/drop links/rep, assault can only carry ammo, scouts can only run cloak and scans and no extra shield or armor. Just saying  .
Lonewolf till I die
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4896
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Posted - 2014.09.22 01:36:00 -
[92] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Don't worry about it. Maken Tosch wrote: Your suggestion effectively punishes scouts just for the mere existence of one or two weapons on the field. I don't see anyone complaining about Scouts using Gallente Assault Rifles. Combinations make things good. Yes, you're being punished because you can manipulate a weapon better than anyone else. The alternative is to remove that weapon from the game, which isn't happening. The shotgun can't be nerfed further either, or it ceases to be viable in any way. The only other thing you can do is effectively change the shotguns role to some sort of mid-range ghetto blaster with a slow rate of fire and a decent, but not overpowering, punch. The shotgun is very difficult to balance. I don't really know what's the main problem with shotguns (outside of the shotgun + cloak issue) since I don't use them. For this, I'll leave it to the shotgun experts to figure it out. EDIT: I may hate shotguns as well but I don't hate them enough to want them removed.
Here's the problem with the shotgun. If it works well enough to consistently kill anyone you get the drop on, then its overpowered in conjunction with the scout suit. If it doesn't work well enough to kill someone consistently when you get the drop on them, even with the scout suits ridiculous amount of intel and stealth provided, then it seems worthless.
There is no middle ground. It's either consistent or it isn't, and if it isn't, its worthless because most of the "work" goes into stalking your opponent before the struggle begins. In the past, shotgun hit detection has been wonky and that made most people refuse to use it. Currently its consistent, which makes it "too good".
So, yea. Either change the weapons role, or change the scouts role. Together as they are, it's unhealthy. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4896
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Posted - 2014.09.22 01:45:00 -
[93] - Quote
BlazeXYZ wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Joel II X wrote:Haven't seen a QQ thread in a while, but I agree that it is a problem. What would you propose to fix said problem?
I'd remove the extra equipment and some CPU/PG. ^ this no reason for them to have 2 equipment slots. Agreed +1. Scouts can currently be logis, assaults and be a scout.
I suppose its a bad time to mention they are also better point defenders than the heavy, as well. Ability to stealth and shotgun anyone in the back who tries to hack a point isn't really a bad alternative to standing around with a "shoot me" sign on the back of your head. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
5094
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Posted - 2014.09.22 02:24:00 -
[94] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:BlazeXYZ wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Joel II X wrote:Haven't seen a QQ thread in a while, but I agree that it is a problem. What would you propose to fix said problem?
I'd remove the extra equipment and some CPU/PG. ^ this no reason for them to have 2 equipment slots. Agreed +1. Scouts can currently be logis, assaults and be a scout. But they should have the ability to be used as assaults or logis. Just don't let them be better than an assault or logi in the same class.
^ Precisely this. +1
The Scout can no longer out-assault the Assault.
The Scout cannot out-logi the Logi (nor has he ever).
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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poison Diego
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
421
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Posted - 2014.09.22 08:20:00 -
[95] - Quote
CharacterNameWasTaken wrote:PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:There's always been slayer scouts. BUT, using in place of assault is not good. Scouts should be able to lock **** down. A skilled scout
is the best scout, a non-skilled/newbro scout is canon fodder. If hes skilled, he should be able to consistently rip your face of any day.
Scrub scouts are just annoying. yeah and i forgot to say in my original one reg plates still need a super penalty to scouts.
I agree but that doesnt fix the real problem, cal scouts+sixkons stacking shield. It would indeed f*ck the gallente and amarr but the cal is the most used slayer scout. plates are only used as a small hp buff for them on top of their 450 shield and 50 regen/sec |
Cpt McReady
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
42
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Posted - 2014.09.22 08:47:00 -
[96] - Quote
I dont have a problem with scouts being able to do combat or a bit of logistic if fit for that.
but I dont like how scouts can do that without any real drawbacks. they still have scout speed, scout profile and precision while doing that. |
The Master Race
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2014.09.22 09:01:00 -
[97] - Quote
There are many more issues with scout the scout can play any role defender,pilot,sniper,support, medic, and assault. With the added survival of naturally low dp and speed they can out play most of these roles better then the suit made for it.
Only class able to fit a cloak field efficiently:
Scout ranks of the 3 suit types: First in speed, first in dropsuit profile, first in scan percision,First in scan radius, first in every aspect of stamina, First in shield recharge/delay second in slots,first in jump, and last in shield and hp.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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Cpt McReady
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
42
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Posted - 2014.09.22 09:03:00 -
[98] - Quote
fun fact, some scouts do not even bother to even sneak up with their shotgun, they simply just find a nice spot to stand still with a proto cloak till someone else walks up to you and then proceed to one shot you with a shotun blast into the face |
voidfaction
Nos Nothi
549
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Posted - 2014.09.22 09:44:00 -
[99] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo.
Ok ill play my cloaked 800 eHP shotty since my 300 eHP eWAR CR scout is making you cry.
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Sclompton Face-Smasher
uptown456
112
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Posted - 2014.09.22 10:01:00 -
[100] - Quote
The Master Race wrote:There are many more issues with scout the scout can play any role defender,pilot,sniper,support, medic, and assault. With the added survival of naturally low dp and speed they can out play most of these roles better then the suit made for it.
Only class able to fit a cloak field efficiently:
Scout ranks of the 3 suit types: First in speed, first in dropsuit profile, first in scan precision,First in scan radius, first in every aspect of stamina, First in shield recharge/delay second in slots,first in jump, and last in shield and hp.
Assaults should get the regeneration more than scouts but scouts should be second. Also i'd say assaults have more stamina as scouts are fast and assaults should be conditioned. Would that be agreeable in everyone's book?
Playstyle: Scout~Passionate In-bred Sniper~Support~Enemy finder
Weapon: Pro SG~SR~SMG~NK~ScR
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Sclompton Face-Smasher
uptown456
112
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Posted - 2014.09.22 10:29:00 -
[101] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Don't worry about it. Maken Tosch wrote: Your suggestion effectively punishes scouts just for the mere existence of one or two weapons on the field. I don't see anyone complaining about Scouts using Gallente Assault Rifles. Combinations make things good. Yes, you're being punished because you can manipulate a weapon better than anyone else. The alternative is to remove that weapon from the game, which isn't happening. The shotgun can't be nerfed further either, or it ceases to be viable in any way. The only other thing you can do is effectively change the shotguns role to some sort of mid-range ghetto blaster with a slow rate of fire and a decent, but not overpowering, punch. The shotgun is very difficult to balance. I don't really know what's the main problem with shotguns (outside of the shotgun + cloak issue) since I don't use them. For this, I'll leave it to the shotgun experts to figure it out. EDIT: I may hate shotguns as well but I don't hate them enough to want them removed. Here's the problem with the shotgun. If it works well enough to consistently kill anyone you get the drop on, then its overpowered in conjunction with the scout suit. If it doesn't work well enough to kill someone consistently when you get the drop on them, even with the scout suits ridiculous amount of intel and stealth provided, then it seems worthless. There is no middle ground. It's either consistent or it isn't, and if it isn't, its worthless because most of the "work" goes into stalking your opponent before the struggle begins. In the past, shotgun hit detection has been wonky and that made most people refuse to use it. Currently its consistent, which makes it "too good". So, yea. Either change the weapons role, or change the scouts role. Together as they are, it's unhealthy.
The shotgun is literally the best weapon for close range, high-damage. as it should be and putting it off the scout is more likely the main/only way to destroy it .
I agree that armor plates should increase profile and to be specific the basic type plates the others are in an okay place to not be QQ'd about. Hell what scout would live with a natural hp reduction with the current weapons that eat ehp on both side even with the different shield/armor effectiveness differences from medium to long range.
Before you get back on shottys after that statement realize it's mainly powerful to shields (+10/-10) and shields themselves are not in the right place or at least equal to armor. So I think that's where the problem lies while leaving the extra damage to roll over to the armor instead essentially leading to quick death.
Explain to me if i'm wrong about the roll over please.
Side note: To make the scout 2 sidearms is somewhat ridiculous when the main weapons proving to do their job are ScP, BP, Smg, and flaylock in Pyrex's hands at least from all i've seen of flaylocks.BTW i'll watch your dust vids even if I don't agree with you. I mean I do watch King Thuderbolt's vids for the lolz.
Playstyle: Scout~Passionate In-bred Sniper~Support~Enemy finder
Weapon: Pro SG~SR~SMG~NK~ScR
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CharacterNameWasTaken
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
57
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Posted - 2014.09.22 12:19:00 -
[102] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:CharacterNameWasTaken wrote:PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:There's always been slayer scouts. BUT, using in place of assault is not good. Scouts should be able to lock **** down. A skilled scout
is the best scout, a non-skilled/newbro scout is canon fodder. If hes skilled, he should be able to consistently rip your face of any day.
Scrub scouts are just annoying. yeah and i forgot to say in my original one reg plates still need a super penalty to scouts. Real Men run 350 eHP Min Scouts
Nope real men run 320 ehp mlt minmatar light frame. |
DarthPlagueis TheWise
61
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Posted - 2014.09.22 12:29:00 -
[103] - Quote
unfortunately people refuted my idea of buffing assault EWAR.
so the only thing you could possibly fix it with would be the cloak. |
Sclompton Face-Smasher
uptown456
112
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Posted - 2014.09.22 12:37:00 -
[104] - Quote
DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:unfortunately people refuted my idea of buffing assault EWAR.
so the only thing you could possibly fix it with would be the cloak.
What's your idea?
Playstyle: Scout~Passionate In-bred Sniper~Support~Enemy finder
Weapon: Pro SG~SR~SMG~NK~ScR
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Cpt McReady
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
43
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 13:49:00 -
[105] - Quote
DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:unfortunately people refuted my idea of buffing assault EWAR.
so the only thing you could possibly fix it with would be the cloak.
assault logi and heavy EWAR are actually inline.
I would like to see the EWAR of scouts/lights frames being lowered slightly and damps brought inline with enhancers. a non scout fit with 3 proto enhancers can barely light up a nondamped scout, that is a huge investment just to see assault scouts. there is no reason why damps give a bigger bonus than enhancers. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4656
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 14:59:00 -
[106] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:The issue with running a scout as an assault suit is that there's no drawbacks to it. If I run my gal scout with pure armor tank I still get almost 40% dampened off of my profile, and a built in advanced precision enhancer.
If a logi tries to run as an assault, they're limited to only one weapon the assault suit is better in that respect.
If a heavy tries to run as an assault, they're limited in movement speed and do not have sufficient damage output to facilitate the amount of hp and low movement speed they have.
If a scout tries to run an assault they're are hindered by their lower hp, however when you consider the amount of speed, regen, and built-in E-war said hindrance can be overlooked, among other things a scout can tank said hindrance away, and beyond that they get the benefit of having an extra equipment slot.
Though scouts SHOULD be ABLE to perform the role of an assault suit, however hindrances should be put in place that stop the scout suit's ability to passively outperform the assault suit in terms of frontal assault. That doesn't mean a scout should NEVER beat an assault at frontal assault, but that the individual player should be relatively skilled at combat to do so...
Efficacy to modules should be the scout bonuses, not straight bonuses to suits.
That's the angle necessary to balance scouts. I'm sure it's been mentioned in this thread, but I've only made it this far and I've been scanning posts quickly thus far.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
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Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
814
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Posted - 2014.09.22 15:03:00 -
[107] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Happy Violentime wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. QQ maybe you should get some gun game in your life? You're just another bad player. According to your stats. Come wreck my face bro! Ok Im not a elite player. I dont drown away hours on Dust. Im not great with two thumbsticks. Yet I am capable of killing you and working well with my squadmates. People like you over compensate for reasons that I dont. Even if I was an elite, I definitely wouldnt have your small man arrogant attitude. Dust 514 doesnt pay the rent or isnt something I can put on a resume. If Im not elite, I dont care. Wouldnt stop me from putting a bullet in your brain in match little boy.
You're the guy bragging about how you'd decimate me and wreck my face? So bring it or stfu. |
Michael Arck
5695
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 15:07:00 -
[108] - Quote
Happy Violentime wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Happy Violentime wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. QQ maybe you should get some gun game in your life? You're just another bad player. According to your stats. Come wreck my face bro! Ok Im not a elite player. I dont drown away hours on Dust. Im not great with two thumbsticks. Yet I am capable of killing you and working well with my squadmates. People like you over compensate for reasons that I dont. Even if I was an elite, I definitely wouldnt have your small man arrogant attitude. Dust 514 doesnt pay the rent or isnt something I can put on a resume. If Im not elite, I dont care. Wouldnt stop me from putting a bullet in your brain in match little boy. You're the guy bragging about how you'd decimate me and wreck my face? So bring it or stfu.
Good lord you're an idiot. Can you read? Did you fail at simple reading comprehension? Im telling you Im not elite but on any given sunday you can lose against me. Thats not bragging thats telling you like it is little man.
I hate lames thinking because they good at video game they can talk down on people. Take that weak crap up the block man.
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9515
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 00:38:00 -
[109] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:The issue with running a scout as an assault suit is that there's no drawbacks to it. If I run my gal scout with pure armor tank I still get almost 40% dampened off of my profile, and a built in advanced precision enhancer.
If a logi tries to run as an assault, they're limited to only one weapon the assault suit is better in that respect.
If a heavy tries to run as an assault, they're limited in movement speed and do not have sufficient damage output to facilitate the amount of hp and low movement speed they have.
If a scout tries to run an assault they're are hindered by their lower hp, however when you consider the amount of speed, regen, and built-in E-war said hindrance can be overlooked, among other things a scout can tank said hindrance away, and beyond that they get the benefit of having an extra equipment slot.
Though scouts SHOULD be ABLE to perform the role of an assault suit, however hindrances should be put in place that stop the scout suit's ability to passively outperform the assault suit in terms of frontal assault. That doesn't mean a scout should NEVER beat an assault at frontal assault, but that the individual player should be relatively skilled at combat to do so... Efficacy to modules should be the scout bonuses, not straight bonuses to suits. That's the angle necessary to balance scouts. I'm sure it's been mentioned in this thread, but I've only made it this far and I've been scanning posts quickly thus far.
I actually brought that up a couple of pages back.
Quote:
Again, a good recommendation is to make it so that we need to fit respective modules on the scout suits if we want to take advantage of the scout bonuses. The same could likely be applied to other classes as well. If you're running an EWAR scout, you shouldn't be using the EWAR bonus if you have no EWAR modules fitted. In the case of a Minmatar Scout which has no EWAR bonus, this would mean you will have to make a choice between fitting kinetic catalyers/profile dampeners and that of the code breakers. You would not be able to benefit from both.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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BONERBOMB TIGBITTIES
THE BONERBOMBS
29
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 02:26:00 -
[110] - Quote
Scouts would be useless if they removed cloaks. But then I guess a quarter of the dust population would cry to CCP. Speaking of combat rifles if those didn't exist then scouts would only be able to tank with shotguns.
I enjoy beverage
I manage beverage
But mostly enjoy beverage
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Sinboto Simmons
Sver true blood
Public.Disorder.
6350
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 02:29:00 -
[111] - Quote
BONERBOMB TIGBITTIES wrote:Scouts would be useless if they removed cloaks. But then I guess a quarter of the dust population would cry to CCP. Speaking of combat rifles if those didn't exist then scouts would only be able to tank with shotguns.
Mass driver user here....
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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NAV HIV
The Generals
2137
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:04:00 -
[112] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:I honestly didnt realize the problem until this event. Brick tanked scouts with agility, speed, high defense recovery and CRs-thats crazy. I was working on one scout and he kept running away, then regen, and then finish me off with his CR. The 1 on 1 battles are far more intense than facing a sentinel. Thats not right at all.
#GitGudS |
oooooooooooops
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2014.09.23 13:16:00 -
[113] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo.
Scouts are only slayers if you allow them to be.
If you are running an effective and efficient squad, scouts won't be a problem (they'll probably give up and go after some softer targets)
If you squad in game with a bunch of randoms you are inviting problems upon yourself.
Do not blame scouts for the inadequacies of all the other players in this game that do not play this game as intended or who play this game badly.
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Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
815
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:40:00 -
[114] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Happy Violentime wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Happy Violentime wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. QQ maybe you should get some gun game in your life? You're just another bad player. According to your stats. Come wreck my face bro! Ok Im not a elite player. I dont drown away hours on Dust. Im not great with two thumbsticks. Yet I am capable of killing you and working well with my squadmates. People like you over compensate for reasons that I dont. Even if I was an elite, I definitely wouldnt have your small man arrogant attitude. Dust 514 doesnt pay the rent or isnt something I can put on a resume. If Im not elite, I dont care. Wouldnt stop me from putting a bullet in your brain in match little boy. You're the guy bragging about how you'd decimate me and wreck my face? So bring it or stfu. Good lord you're an idiot. Can you read? Did you fail at simple reading comprehension? Im telling you Im not elite but on any given sunday you can lose against me. Thats not bragging thats telling you like it is little man. I hate lames thinking because they good at video game they can talk down on people. Take that weak crap up the block man.
Lol *** |
Nestil
uptown456
142
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 14:45:00 -
[115] - Quote
BONERBOMB TIGBITTIES[b wrote:]Scouts would be useless if they removed cloaks[/b]. But then I guess a quarter of the dust population would cry to CCP. Speaking of combat rifles if those didn't exist then scouts would only be able to tank with shotguns.
how is that o,O ? i mean most of the time as scout i played without a cloak & i definetly wouldnt miss it!
i say remove cloaks.. but then there would be no need for a second equipment slot.. which would suck since i just started using RE's with nanohives to counter all the damn heavy spam.. the SG is not reliable for ppl like me with crap internet.
but what i read through all the whining here ist that most ppl want them to become what they were a few builts ago: an expensive toilet paper suit... but the good scouts would still **** your ass since you cant nerf player skill!
i've seen so many good players in assault or logi suits top the leaderboards.. what is their secret and why cant you adapt and overcome?
and just for the record the true ezmode are heavies... the most efficient way to farm isk is using a militia heavy with a HMG (it requires even nearly no SP) & you cant deny that. try for yourself
yesterday some latin scrub corp spammed 9 proto heavies with six kin burst HMGs in ambush... i would have rather fought against 9 scouts.....
and about the whining over brick tanked scouts: its not viable i tested that myself and its only good against scrubs... but i would have beaten them in any suit anyways. against good players i run a dampened speed scout since the 500 armor wouldnt help you when another ewar scout or scanner detects you.... |
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