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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4879
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
You can't give invisibility, HP, speed, wallhacks, super jump height and paper thin hitbox to one suit. It's too much.
Yet I'm not willing to abandon the idea that people should be able to have a combat light frame suit. Some players are good at this and they deserve to play that playstyle. They just need to have the wallhacks and invisibility ripped from them.
Light frame suit needs a secondary class like both the medium and heavy frame do. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4879
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 02:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't buy into the concept that a scout is supposed to be anti-heavy. I believe the scout is supposed to be anti-logi, as the logi is supposed to be the "soft" target while the scout is basically an opportunistic scoundrel with all the intel and stealth he needs to pounce on such prey.
I believe the heavy is anti-heavy, and the well-positioned assault/commando is anti-heavy. But the entire purpose of having a slow moving brick that is hard to position and keep fed ammunition is that he isn't easily removed through something as arbitrary and basic as rock-paper-scissors countering. He has too many movement drawbacks for that to make sense.
The scout being a complete and utter jackal when it comes to logistical assassination and equipment destruction makes a whole lot more sense though, especially as the scout is the only suit that can really detect all the bullshit the logi is putting down. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4889
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 13:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde Jr wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Should be dismantled. There is no reason why scouts are being frontal assault players with their quick TTK CRs.
I have killed them and they have killed me. But seeing scouts in this event play outside of their role infringes on a class designed to do such.
Scouts should not be slayers. If we cant squeeze it in on delta, changes need to be made come echo. Translation: "People are using emergent gameplay to make shock-troops out of scout suit users, and I am angry about it because I wasn't creative enough to think of it, first, so please nerf it into oblivion, even though I will squall like a little brat about everything and claim to hate this game and everyone who plays it!" Anyone agree with my interpretation of his post?
I wouldn't call it emergent gameplay. It doesn't take any kind of creativity to do what's being done. It was simply a natural result of having everything at your finger tips. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4889
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 13:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
I wouldn't go that far... it's not a exploit to simply abuse what is obvious. Usually there is something more sinister and unintentional behind an exploit.
Scouts are simply on steroids because CCP gave them a bottle of steroids. It's an open and shut case of having too much power at their finger tips. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4895
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 00:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Omega Black Zero wrote:The issues isn't as simple as cloaks, it's eWar coupled with the best movement abilities in the game. They can see you sooner and plan accordingly. Information is very important, and cloaks are only a gimmick at best, because it's not the cloaks that kills me, it's accurate detection and planning that kills me. I feel the scout has too much of both worlds and either needs to be divided into two roles or have eWar nerfed down or reduce the killing efficiency of running a scout (reduction in equipment slots would be a good start) Reducing EWAR is not the solution and neither is dividing roles. The problem can be resolved from more than one angle if needed.
Apparently not, according to you. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4895
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 00:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Don't worry about it.
Maken Tosch wrote: Your suggestion effectively punishes scouts just for the mere existence of one or two weapons on the field. I don't see anyone complaining about Scouts using Gallente Assault Rifles.
Combinations make things good. Yes, you're being punished because you can manipulate a weapon better than anyone else. The alternative is to remove that weapon from the game, which isn't happening. The shotgun can't be nerfed further either, or it ceases to be viable in any way.
The only other thing you can do is effectively change the shotguns role to some sort of mid-range ghetto blaster with a slow rate of fire and a decent, but not overpowering, punch. Nova Knives then take over the role of point blank killing. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4896
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 01:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Don't worry about it. Maken Tosch wrote: Your suggestion effectively punishes scouts just for the mere existence of one or two weapons on the field. I don't see anyone complaining about Scouts using Gallente Assault Rifles. Combinations make things good. Yes, you're being punished because you can manipulate a weapon better than anyone else. The alternative is to remove that weapon from the game, which isn't happening. The shotgun can't be nerfed further either, or it ceases to be viable in any way. The only other thing you can do is effectively change the shotguns role to some sort of mid-range ghetto blaster with a slow rate of fire and a decent, but not overpowering, punch. The shotgun is very difficult to balance. I don't really know what's the main problem with shotguns (outside of the shotgun + cloak issue) since I don't use them. For this, I'll leave it to the shotgun experts to figure it out. EDIT: I may hate shotguns as well but I don't hate them enough to want them removed.
Here's the problem with the shotgun. If it works well enough to consistently kill anyone you get the drop on, then its overpowered in conjunction with the scout suit. If it doesn't work well enough to kill someone consistently when you get the drop on them, even with the scout suits ridiculous amount of intel and stealth provided, then it seems worthless.
There is no middle ground. It's either consistent or it isn't, and if it isn't, its worthless because most of the "work" goes into stalking your opponent before the struggle begins. In the past, shotgun hit detection has been wonky and that made most people refuse to use it. Currently its consistent, which makes it "too good".
So, yea. Either change the weapons role, or change the scouts role. Together as they are, it's unhealthy. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4896
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 01:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
BlazeXYZ wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Joel II X wrote:Haven't seen a QQ thread in a while, but I agree that it is a problem. What would you propose to fix said problem?
I'd remove the extra equipment and some CPU/PG. ^ this no reason for them to have 2 equipment slots. Agreed +1. Scouts can currently be logis, assaults and be a scout.
I suppose its a bad time to mention they are also better point defenders than the heavy, as well. Ability to stealth and shotgun anyone in the back who tries to hack a point isn't really a bad alternative to standing around with a "shoot me" sign on the back of your head. |
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