Everyone,

here are the proposed numbers based off of the conversation in this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174966&find=unread

I encourage you to study them and also the ratios we are using to baseline some of the designs. No sniper rifle should be the best at all things, and all of them should have weaknesses.

Sniper Rifle Numbers

Please give us your feedback, thanks

I don't buy it.

Sniper Rifle headshots killed people in Chromosome, and the game wasn't worse off for it. Somewhere along the way, player mentality seems to have shifted from "good shot!" to "I deserve a chance to respond".

Who remembers when the click-click of cooking nade meant GTFO?
When Sleepy Zan in the killfeed meant get your arse to cover?
When everyone jumped to the sound of kickball and a Twin from behind meant certain demise?

We've willingly traded that thrill of Chrome combat for the second and third chances of Uprising. Newbros continue to die without a moment's notice, but we veterans? We're entitled to three shotgun blasts to the back, two sniper rounds to the face, and free passes from perfectly cooked prototype grenades.

Again, I don't buy it.

well i know im gonna be a sniper from now on then :P the charge will do 1190 dam to a head shot without dam mods and prof Ohhhits gonna bee oooopppppp

Agreed.

players seem to be of the belief lately that snipers are supposed to be worse than bolt pistols..

i don't understand the apathy. if they become useful then maybe they should be wanted as an asset.

but then the mentality on dust lately also seems to be very "anti anything that kills me".

as you say it wasn't game breaking when they were useful before.

Obviously snipers will like having OP sniper rifles, the same way tankers liked having OP tanks in 1.7. But such obvious imbalances are absolutely terrible for the game as a whole.

I don't buy it.

Sniper Rifle headshots killed people in Chromosome, and the game wasn't worse off for it. Somewhere along the way, player mentality seems to have shifted from "good shot!" to "I deserve a chance to respond".

Who remembers when the click-click of cooking nade meant GTFO?
When Sleepy Zan in the killfeed meant get your arse to cover?
When everyone jumped to the sound of kickball and a Twin from behind meant certain demise?

We've willingly traded that thrill of Chrome combat for the second and third chances of Uprising. Newbros continue to die without a moment's notice, but we veterans? We're entitled to three shotgun blasts to the back, two sniper rounds to the face, and free passes from perfectly cooked prototype grenades.

Again, I don't buy it.

Indeed, See this is why I focus on Range. A proper, healthy sniper rifle should have been rewarding headshot damage with unrevivable kills in the frist place. Like it used to. With light weapon sharpshooter I had engaged in snipe-offs exceeding 650m in Chromo.

Alpha damage weapons get flamed because one is forced to take precautions to avoid them, rather than just run straight into them to compare HP and DPS.

Your nerf to range isn't a solution to red line sniping. If you really think it is then you've clearly never' used the weapon. So long as one team can take all the points in Skirm or have an overwhelming lead in Domination one team will be forced to spawn in their starting location while the other team moves as close to it as possible. That's the biggest cause for this imaginary problem that has no real effect on game play, outside of the times when a whole team is bored because there's nothing left to do except spawn kill.

Reduced range means reduced vantage points means reduced effectiveness.

Half the time someone will think they hit their target in the head, because of the server-side delay they will instead end up scoring a body shot.
Again; Hit detection is so awful with the sniper rifle you're probably only going to get 3 of the 5 rounds from the regular variant off, you've got some extreme luck to get 4 shots to connect and some miraculous power to get all 5.

The sniper rifle has no aim assist, which they'll be completely lost without, then they'll start to find out about the hit detection problems, and once that is through they'll finally start to see how crappy the aiming is and how silly the Aim Friction on the weapons are.

Technically yes ,but at the same time no...... what I mean is the amount of players you were going to hit and kill past 400m is so minuscule its negligible.

Trust me no one wants aim assist on sniper *shudder at the though*

Idk about you but I'd rather see how the range nerf plays out before saying its just automatically going to make snipers worthless..... I mean the tacSR is getting the biggest range nerf, but is still going to be the best SR ( soooo OP)

Honestly,

i'm getting annoyed by all this don't touch snipers they will be o.p.

i call bs.
for people who have been saying all year about snipers being cowards-you sure are doing alot of crying.

where's all this i'm brave because i run around the map that i've had to listen to all year?

they are no op.
they are more or less where they used to be..
don't forget that snipers were not "nerfed" because of them being op and they were able to kill much better..
my charge rifle used to be able kill in pc matches!

they became the useless items they are now because they were in fact left alone.

the only real problem we will get now is:
because a change to snipers is big news particularly when everybody already hates them* alot of players will now want to experiment with them and then come here to cry about how op they are.
the thing is these players have been playing this game for years now with no interest in sniping.
all you are going to achieve is ruining the game for a small amount of players who prefer to play as a sniper.

I have played as a sniper in dust since uprising 1.1 over a year now.
I have put up with watching the only role i have an actual interest in get progressively worse with every single update.
and i have still sniped.
i have watched and replied to more players than i could possibly count on these forums that have said that:
.snipers are useless- well now they will become usable again.
.that as long as the red line snipers were addressed then a buff would be ok.- well now they won't be as far into the red line as before.
.that the range on sniper rifles would need to be reduced if snipers wanted a buff- 600m down to 350, 400, 450 IS a range nerf
.players have said how no sniper is any better than an afker. i've since seen the acceptance of ONE of us, and only because he actually used a capture card to PROVE it.
it still did nothing to help their opinion of snipers.

we have had all of the changes that were asked in order to gain our damage increases...
so stop telling us that we shouldn't get our target when we've accepted all of your requirements!

I have literally been pushed out of pc matches as snipers are completely useless in pc matches.

when the sniper rifles are fixed, i will be one of the few players that can say i was there throughout the trials.
but i expect that players will still say that i must be doing it to hide, or farm isk, or pad kdr, or some such.

I dont get it how will the tac sniper stand and shoot if you didnt change sway?

And you get it. This is exactly what all the people complaining about the TacSR being OP seem to be forgetting. There is still going to be sway unless you stop and crouch. They will just be able to fire rounds off faster.

I was talking about what rattati said.
Tactical Sniper Rifle - the Rifleman, stand and shoot, and has enough ROF and damage output to effectively take down approaching enemies. (basically super TAR)

See stand and shoot, not sure what he meant by that.

You're just mad that standing still means death again.

Sway will not be changing this go around; if the tactical needs it still expect a follow-up.

Remember hotfixes are much faster iterations we can see where we screwed up easily after hotfix and make the needed adjustments to bring the rifles up to par or bring them back in line should this prove too much too quick.

I was talking about what rattati said.
Tactical Sniper Rifle - the Rifleman, stand and shoot, and has enough ROF and damage output to effectively take down approaching enemies. (basically super TAR)

See stand and shoot, not sure what he meant by that.

Definition of a sniper: someone who thinks 'if you arent constantly running in random directions youre just asking to die!' while sitting perfectly still for 15 minutes at a time

Sway will not be changing this go around; if the tactical needs it still expect a follow-up.

So if it seems the Tac SR scope is still moving too much and needs a stabilizer, you will go in and remove the sway for just the Tac AR, basically making it a single shot, High Alpha damage, long Range Combat Rifle?

By that, I mean the scope will react the same as a Combat Rifle without the sway and everything, and you will be able to move while having scope up and you can shoot on the move?

Just wanting some clarification that I am in fact picking up what you're laying down. Because if that is the case, I could see some of the cries about OP coming to light. I'm a Sniper who knows how to use a Combat Rifle. Giving me the power of the SR with the scope of the CR? That would be absolutely vicious. I could see maybe cutting down on the scope sway while moving, but for the scope to completely lose sway, the person needs to stop walking.

Does anyone else have an opinion on this yay or nay?

Definition of a sniper: someone who thinks 'if you arent constantly running in random directions youre just asking to die!' while sitting perfectly still for 15 minutes at a time