DUST Search - Simulated Market

Alaika Arbosa wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Very interesting idea. Potential for abuse though depending on how its set up.

What would stop a group of players with large amounts from ISK, mass stockpiling high end gear one week, thus driving the price up extremely high the next week, and then terrorizing players with Proto gear that the players can not afford because of the price hike?

I think that's the point.

My point isn't that, my point is to give some fluidity to the market. Something that tricks us into feeling like we actually have a player market with shifting conditions rather than the stagnant market we currently have.

Do I think it is a bad idea to increase the price of Proto gear? No, the price isn't providing the balancing effect it was originally supposed to (thank you runaway farming /sarcasm).
Would I cry if Proto gear became prohibitively expensive? No, IMHO Proto gear is far too common as it is and anything that causes it to become rarer is a good thing.

I understand that this could drive Proto gear into the hands of a select few rich, however how is this different from things currently? If you see Nyain Chan/San in a match do you expect to see anything but Proto spam?

Potential for abuse will exist for any system introduced to this playerbase who seem to make it their sole purpose in this game to game the system (sorry if that annoys me somewhat).

Maken Tosch wrote:

PS: Imagine how much ISK this system will remove from the game if implemented. All that ISK circulating as a result of PC District Locking in the past will be drained at a significant rate and could help alleviate CCP's worry about having to transfer any ISK at all to Legion when the time comes. Plus any ISK gained from ALT farming can be drained the same way as well.

Thank you for articulating that for me, honestly, thank you.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Zindorak 1.U.P 888	Posted - 2014.09.09 23:16:00 - [91] - Quote Oooo i like this idea. That means Duvolles will be really cheap Pokemon master! I suck at Tekken lol
Apocalyptic Destroyer RestlessSpirits 124	Posted - 2014.09.10 05:19:00 - [92] - Quote This is great ! ~R1P
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12095	Posted - 2014.09.10 16:07:00 - [93] - Quote Valve had this system for Counter Strike Source at the beginning. Armor and helmet cost more than the max amount of money you can hold at any given time XD Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2120	Posted - 2014.09.10 17:45:00 - [94] - Quote OP updated once again to make some things clear on page one. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 9294	Posted - 2014.09.10 17:51:00 - [95] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Very interesting idea. Potential for abuse though depending on how its set up. What would stop a group of players with large amounts from ISK, mass stockpiling high end gear one week, thus driving the price up extremely high the next week, and then terrorizing players with Proto gear that the players can not afford because of the price hike? I think that's the point. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2120	Posted - 2014.09.10 18:04:00 - [96] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Very interesting idea. Potential for abuse though depending on how its set up. What would stop a group of players with large amounts from ISK, mass stockpiling high end gear one week, thus driving the price up extremely high the next week, and then terrorizing players with Proto gear that the players can not afford because of the price hike? I think that's the point. My point isn't that, my point is to give some fluidity to the market. Something that tricks us into feeling like we actually have a player market with shifting conditions rather than the stagnant market we currently have. Do I think it is a bad idea to increase the price of Proto gear? No, the price isn't providing the balancing effect it was originally supposed to (thank you runaway farming /sarcasm). Would I cry if Proto gear became prohibitively expensive? No, IMHO Proto gear is far too common as it is and anything that causes it to become rarer is a good thing. I understand that this could drive Proto gear into the hands of a select few rich, however how is this different from things currently? If you see Nyain Chan/San in a match do you expect to see anything but Proto spam? Potential for abuse will exist for any system introduced to this playerbase who seem to make it their sole purpose in this game to game the system (sorry if that annoys me somewhat). "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 9296	Posted - 2014.09.10 18:12:00 - [97] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Very interesting idea. Potential for abuse though depending on how its set up. What would stop a group of players with large amounts from ISK, mass stockpiling high end gear one week, thus driving the price up extremely high the next week, and then terrorizing players with Proto gear that the players can not afford because of the price hike? I think that's the point. My point isn't that, my point is to give some fluidity to the market. Something that tricks us into feeling like we actually have a player market with shifting conditions rather than the stagnant market we currently have. Do I think it is a bad idea to increase the price of Proto gear? No, the price isn't providing the balancing effect it was originally supposed to (thank you runaway farming /sarcasm). Would I cry if Proto gear became prohibitively expensive? No, IMHO Proto gear is far too common as it is and anything that causes it to become rarer is a good thing. I understand that this could drive Proto gear into the hands of a select few rich, however how is this different from things currently? If you see Nyain Chan/San in a match do you expect to see anything but Proto spam? Potential for abuse will exist for any system introduced to this playerbase who seem to make it their sole purpose in this game to game the system (sorry if that annoys me somewhat). Maken Tosch wrote: PS: Imagine how much ISK this system will remove from the game if implemented. All that ISK circulating as a result of PC District Locking in the past will be drained at a significant rate and could help alleviate CCP's worry about having to transfer any ISK at all to Legion when the time comes. Plus any ISK gained from ALT farming can be drained the same way as well. Thank you for articulating that for me, honestly, thank you. That's actually the underlying reason why I wanted to see a secondary market where players have full control of the prices and not the NPCs. Unfortunately, that kind of dream will only be coming to Legion* so we have to make do with a simulated market instead as you suggested. But at the very least, fluctuating prices can ensure that proto stomping can be put under control. It will be a bit crazy at first, and I know what crazy looks like since I play the market in Eve Online, but in the end after everything settles down proto stomping will be a thing of the past. No one wants to spent 10,000,000 ISK for a single fitting of a dropsuit and die in it 20 times in a single match. * - stupid typo On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 444	Posted - 2014.09.10 18:16:00 - [98] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: The first thing we should ask is 'how does this affect new players?', they are the lifeblood of the game. I would not expect this system to apply to Militia gear. I would... We have starter fits for new players. Militia is mostly used by people in the game for some time to pull in money with the strongest 'cheap' fit they can build... Would be nice to push everyone towards the happy middle tier.
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 9297	Posted - 2014.09.10 18:22:00 - [99] - Quote Oh dear god! I just realized. Imagine vehicles and people like me stabbing them to death with cheap knives. OMG! On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Mauren NOON The Exemplars 457	Posted - 2014.09.10 18:38:00 - [100] - Quote +1 bump for dev response Scr and commando enthusiast. Amarrica!

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2123	Posted - 2014.09.10 18:51:00 - [101] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: The first thing we should ask is 'how does this affect new players?', they are the lifeblood of the game. I would not expect this system to apply to Militia gear. I would... We have starter fits for new players. Militia is mostly used by people in the game for some time to pull in money with the strongest 'cheap' fit they can build... Would be nice to push everyone towards the happy middle tier. I like the way you think. Standard/Advanced should be the most common items on the field. As it stands now, it is either Proto or BPO/Militia items I see mostly. I do see some standard and advanced items but no where near the same numbers of them as I do the PRO/BPO/MLT. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2123	Posted - 2014.09.11 16:09:00 - [102] - Quote Are there any Blue Tags who have thoughts on this topic? "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 9309	Posted - 2014.09.11 16:13:00 - [103] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Are there any Blue Tags who have thoughts on this topic? People have brought this idea up before but the vast majority of the players ruled against it. It was back when all of us were looking forward to having a secondary market in Dust and people like me didn't like the idea of the simulated market as you suggested because it would prove to be counter to what CCP was trying to achieve. However, now that we know the secondary market will never be coming to Dust, it's time to revisit that idea. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2123	Posted - 2014.09.11 16:26:00 - [104] - Quote I remember being one of those players, though as you said, things are different now. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 9312	Posted - 2014.09.11 18:20:00 - [105] - Quote So yeah, clearly CCP does have the metrics to calculate which item in Dust is being used the most and which is being used the least. Using those metrics as a reference, all CCP has to do is create a script that runs every week on the same day as the weekly SP cap reset. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 74	Posted - 2014.09.11 18:26:00 - [106] - Quote We don't have to over complicate it: Make the prices based on actual use in game not purchases, this helps curve the FOTM. Militia gear can be exempted as gov issued and therefore regulated such as our power bills and water bills. This leads to a very stable market. This could be handled by a simple formula that averages over X amount of months to keep that from being manipulated much. We also would need the cap set on the price flux in the beginning. Now after this very simple variable market is in place for a while we can make changes and tweaks slowly. This would also let CCP have an idea of how dust and or legion would react to a true players market. The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
Captian Tulve Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.09.11 19:10:00 - [107] - Quote Bright Steel wrote: We don't have to over complicate it: Make the prices based on actual use in game not purchases, this helps curve the FOTM. Militia gear can be exempted as gov issued and therefore regulated such as our power bills and water bills. This leads to a very stable market. This could be handled by a simple formula that averages over X amount of months to keep that from being manipulated much. We also would need the cap set on the price flux in the beginning. Now after this very simple variable market is in place for a while we can make changes and tweaks slowly. This would also let CCP have an idea of how dust and or legion would react to a true players market. This would isolate dust from eve in the beginning taking away the risk of upsetting the eve economy. And if the caps start out low enough there won't be any major effects on dust either. As we see the results we can raise the caps or what ever.
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 9318	Posted - 2014.09.11 19:29:00 - [108] - Quote Bright Steel wrote: We don't have to over complicate it: Make the prices based on actual use in game not purchases, this helps curve the FOTM. That seems like a better idea. This would help discourage anyone from wanting to stockpile stuff in an attempt to game the market. Again, CCP does have the metrics in place to determine what gear was used and how often. Of course, this means AUR sales might go up since AUR prices cannot be directly manipulated by the script and thus provide a temporary workaround to the ISK price hike. But let's be real here, who spends AUR anymore on consumables for this game in this state? ... /realizes he just bought 100 units of 'Pyrus' Nova Knives of varying tiers ... Nevermind that last sentence. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 3756	Posted - 2014.09.11 19:33:00 - [109] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: /realizes he just bought 100 units of 'Pyrus' Nova Knives of varying tiers I knew it was a good idea to suggest bringing those back. CCP marketing can thank me sometime. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
TechMechMeds KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 5559	Posted - 2014.09.11 19:34:00 - [110] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Bright Steel wrote: We don't have to over complicate it: Make the prices based on actual use in game not purchases, this helps curve the FOTM. That seems like a better idea. This would help discourage anyone from wanting to stockpile stuff in an attempt to game the market. Again, CCP does have the metrics in place to determine what gear was used and how often. Of course, this means AUR sales might go up since AUR prices cannot be directly manipulated by the script and thus provide a temporary workaround to the ISK price hike. But let's be real here, who spends AUR anymore on consumables for this game in this state? ... /realizes he just bought 100 units of 'Pyrus' Nova Knives of varying tiers ... Nevermind that last sentence. Me, ill be restocking items in stacks of 1000 within two months for another six months+ of pay to not care lol. That was spiffing.

Immortal John Ripper 24448	Posted - 2014.09.11 19:34:00 - [111] - Quote Do it. It should make things really interesting. Doubling Billions of isk! I will double ALL isk from now until the15th!! No amounts under 5m. Don't waste my time.
General John Ripper 24599	Posted - 2014.09.11 19:34:00 - [112] - Quote Do it. It should make things really interesting. Doubling Billions of isk! I will double ALL isk from now until the15th!! No amounts under 5m. Don't waste my time.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 3756	Posted - 2014.09.11 19:40:00 - [113] - Quote Bright Steel wrote: We don't have to over complicate it: Make the prices based on actual use in game not purchases, this helps curve the FOTM. ... Now after this very simple variable market is in place for a while we can make changes and tweaks slowly. This would also let CCP have an idea of how dust and or legion would react to a true players market. I do like this approach. Do bear in mind people can still suicide their gear in match as a possible workaround if you are determining prices by use? The upswing is there is a larger grind factor in this as you can only suicide around 40 to 60 suits per match--and vehicles much less. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 967	Posted - 2014.09.11 21:32:00 - [114] - Quote I am a fan of this idea with one exception. Make it so that we can sell back to those NPCs any thing we do not want or can not use at x% of the current price and alot of people selling these things would offset purchases in the manner of causing the price to go up. It would at least be a great way to test the client mechanics of the market.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2123	Posted - 2014.09.11 22:00:00 - [115] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: I am a fan of this idea with one exception. Make it so that we can sell back to those NPCs any thing we do not want or can not use at x% of the current price and alot of people selling these things would offset purchases in the manner of causing the price to go up. It would at least be a great way to test the client mechanics of the market. As previously mentioned, that would require a client update which we aren't getting. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2124	Posted - 2014.09.12 14:03:00 - [116] - Quote I wonder if there are any Devs online who've posted recently (within the past hour or so) who might have input on this topic? "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
matsumoto yuichi san The Elite Few Inc. The Methodical Alliance 50	Posted - 2014.09.12 18:34:00 - [117] - Quote seems legit, ship it
a brackers Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 46	Posted - 2014.09.13 21:47:00 - [118] - Quote Come on. Ccp read this Proto dropship pilot The sandbox shooter
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2127	Posted - 2014.09.14 14:19:00 - [119] - Quote a brackers wrote: Come on. Ccp read this I too hope they read this and provide their own input. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 3780	Posted - 2014.09.14 20:25:00 - [120] - Quote @Alaika Arbosa Maybe this will help grab some attention. ;) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=175272&find=unread Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!



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