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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1947	Posted - 2014.08.09 21:53:00 - [1] - Quote The real reason for this is the demographics--In general, people who play as heavy (not all, but most nowadays) are new players, who have a much lesser grasp of the in game mechanics or map features, or the way that CQC works, etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum we have scouts--most of the scouts who are complaining about ridiculous heavy spam are among what I lovingly call the "OG Cult". We have been around for a very long time, and I can't speak for all, but most of us went through the days of Slayer Logi permascan AR 514 with our shoulders high, and our profiles low, proud to be some of the few who actually ran scouts since day 1. These are the players who know the maps, understand the mechanics, and have become powerful while their suit was in a bad place. The heavy and the scout each attract their own types of players, however, the ones that are more liable to complain are the newer players, the ones that don't understand the mechanics or how they work, and by coincidence, these player's demographic is comprised mainly of heavies. These new players seem to have some ingrained sense of entitltement to fair 1v1 fights where even a militia heavy straight from the academy could slaughter even the game's toughest scouts. The problem is, the inherent play style that the scout utilizes requires trickery, a basic knowledge of human psychology, and an deep in depth knowledge of in-game mechanics. Most players find this unfair, and believe that by donning the all-mighty sentinel suit that they should somehow become invulnerable, and that things such as the use of tactics or even their personal gun game are useless in comparison to the incredible advantages given to them by donning said sentinel suit. When they are killed by something that is smaller and faster than them, it seems like a spit in the face, and indeed, for many, it is. They know that their skill and knowledge of game mechanics was less than that of their opponents, yet refuse to admit it. Instead, they become bitter and frustrated as they know that their gear is inherently stronger, yet they cannot beat their opponents. To this, I have to say--Suck it the **** up. Seriously. 6/10 of the scouts complaining have been scouts throughout the dark ages, where the supremacy of fine rifles and brick tanked logis with perma-scans reigned supreme, and many of us even thrived (to whatever extent we were allowed). You HMG sentinels have been given superior weaponry and suits, yet refuse to adapt to a battlefield in which tactical decisions and gun-game matter. Despite saying this, however-- Are scouts OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? Yes, for the most part. Some may need buffs post Charlie, others, nerfs. And we do openly admit it. We understand the game mechanics and the reasons why certain scouts coughCaldaricough are OP. --BUT!-- Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. However, the lack of acknowledgement of the issues making the sentinel OP as well as the condescending, brash, rude, degenerate, and occasionally illiterate ways that the Sentinel community represent themselves makes the glaring balance problems all the more annoying for many of us long-timers. TL;DR-- The reason Sentinels complain so much about scouts is because they are generally newer players, and the very way the sentinel role works causes them to resent scouts in particular. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1947	Posted - 2014.08.09 21:56:00 - [2] - Quote ----Reserved---- "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3857	Posted - 2014.08.09 21:58:00 - [3] - Quote Don't know why you'd want to be the broad side of the barn anyway (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!!
Smoky The Bear THE SMOKIN GUNZ Dark Taboo 149	Posted - 2014.08.09 22:03:00 - [4] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The real reason for this is the demographics--In general, people who play as heavy (not all, but most nowadays) are new players, who have a much lesser grasp of the in game mechanics or map features, or the way that CQC works, etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum we have scouts--most of the scouts who are complaining about ridiculous heavy spam are among what I lovingly call the "OG Cult". We have been around for a very long time, and I can't speak for all, but most of us went through the days of Slayer Logi permascan AR 514 with our shoulders high, and our profiles low, proud to be some of the few who actually ran scouts since day 1. These are the players who know the maps, understand the mechanics, and have become powerful while their suit was in a bad place. The heavy and the scout each attract their own types of players, however, the ones that are more liable to complain are the newer players, the ones that don't understand the mechanics or how they work, and by coincidence, these player's demographic is comprised mainly of heavies. These new players seem to have some ingrained sense of entitltement to fair 1v1 fights where even a militia heavy straight from the academy could slaughter even the game's toughest scouts. The problem is, the inherent play style that the scout utilizes requires trickery, a basic knowledge of human psychology, and an deep in depth knowledge of in-game mechanics. Most players find this unfair, and believe that by donning the all-mighty sentinel suit that they should somehow become invulnerable, and that things such as the use of tactics or even their personal gun game are useless in comparison to the incredible advantages given to them by donning said sentinel suit. When they are killed by something that is smaller and faster than them, it seems like a spit in the face, and indeed, for many, it is. They know that their skill and knowledge of game mechanics was less than that of their opponents, yet refuse to admit it. Instead, they become bitter and frustrated as they know that their gear is inherently stronger, yet they cannot beat their opponents. To this, I have to say--Suck it the **** up. Seriously. 6/10 of the scouts complaining have been scouts throughout the dark ages, where the supremacy of fine rifles and brick tanked logis with perma-scans reigned supreme, and many of us even thrived (to whatever extent we were allowed). You HMG sentinels have been given superior weaponry and suits, yet refuse to adapt to a battlefield in which tactical decisions and gun-game matter. Despite saying this, however-- Are scouts OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? Yes, for the most part. Some may need buffs post Charlie, others, nerfs. And we do openly admit it. We understand the game mechanics and the reasons why certain scouts coughCaldaricough are OP. --BUT!-- Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. However, the lack of acknowledgement of the issues making the sentinel OP as well as the condescending, brash, rude, degenerate, and occasionally illiterate ways that the Sentinel community represent themselves makes the glaring balance problems all the more annoying for many of us long-timers. TL;DR-- The reason Sentinels complain so much about scouts is because they are generally newer players, and the very way the sentinel role works causes them to resent scouts in particular. Amen brother.. Lets hear it for the scouts.. You know the ones who actually suffered from day 1 with going negative every round so their team could win.. But.. no we definately dont all agree that scouts are OP .? are u serious man? why? explain? I get 1 shot by every bluberry tryhard on the map..
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1067	Posted - 2014.08.09 22:17:00 - [5] - Quote i run heavy as my second role it is clearly OP. the scout suit is clearly OP. there are noobs in heavy suits and noobs running scout suits witch is not a problem. its when you put a vet in one of these OP suits is when things go bad. but i feel that a scout suit being used by someone with good map knowledge and gun game makes it the most OP combo in the game besides a skilled ADS. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 3078	Posted - 2014.08.09 22:28:00 - [6] - Quote Smoky The Bear wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The real reason for this is the demographics--In general, people who play as heavy (not all, but most nowadays) are new players, who have a much lesser grasp of the in game mechanics or map features, or the way that CQC works, etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum we have scouts--most of the scouts who are complaining about ridiculous heavy spam are among what I lovingly call the "OG Cult". We have been around for a very long time, and I can't speak for all, but most of us went through the days of Slayer Logi permascan AR 514 with our shoulders high, and our profiles low, proud to be some of the few who actually ran scouts since day 1. These are the players who know the maps, understand the mechanics, and have become powerful while their suit was in a bad place. The heavy and the scout each attract their own types of players, however, the ones that are more liable to complain are the newer players, the ones that don't understand the mechanics or how they work, and by coincidence, these player's demographic is comprised mainly of heavies. These new players seem to have some ingrained sense of entitltement to fair 1v1 fights where even a militia heavy straight from the academy could slaughter even the game's toughest scouts. The problem is, the inherent play style that the scout utilizes requires trickery, a basic knowledge of human psychology, and an deep in depth knowledge of in-game mechanics. Most players find this unfair, and believe that by donning the all-mighty sentinel suit that they should somehow become invulnerable, and that things such as the use of tactics or even their personal gun game are useless in comparison to the incredible advantages given to them by donning said sentinel suit. When they are killed by something that is smaller and faster than them, it seems like a spit in the face, and indeed, for many, it is. They know that their skill and knowledge of game mechanics was less than that of their opponents, yet refuse to admit it. Instead, they become bitter and frustrated as they know that their gear is inherently stronger, yet they cannot beat their opponents. To this, I have to say--Suck it the **** up. Seriously. 6/10 of the scouts complaining have been scouts throughout the dark ages, where the supremacy of fine rifles and brick tanked logis with perma-scans reigned supreme, and many of us even thrived (to whatever extent we were allowed). You HMG sentinels have been given superior weaponry and suits, yet refuse to adapt to a battlefield in which tactical decisions and gun-game matter. Despite saying this, however-- Are scouts OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? Yes, for the most part. Some may need buffs post Charlie, others, nerfs. And we do openly admit it. We understand the game mechanics and the reasons why certain scouts coughCaldaricough are OP. --BUT!-- Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. However, the lack of acknowledgement of the issues making the sentinel OP as well as the condescending, brash, rude, degenerate, and occasionally illiterate ways that the Sentinel community represent themselves makes the glaring balance problems all the more annoying for many of us long-timers. TL;DR-- The reason Sentinels complain so much about scouts is because they are generally newer players, and the very way the sentinel role works causes them to resent scouts in particular. Amen brother.. Lets hear it for the scouts.. You know the ones who actually suffered from day 1 with going negative every round so their team could win.. But.. no we definately dont all agree that scouts are OP .? are u serious man? why? explain? I get 1 shot by every bluberry tryhard on the map.. Day 1? You mean when hit detection was so bad you could never land a single bullet on scouts? No I don't think scouts are OP but if you say assaults are then scouts are super OP lmfao. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
OZAROW Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1476	Posted - 2014.08.09 22:48:00 - [7] - Quote Good post, and I have so much to add but will hold tight here and reserve the right to edit SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2898	Posted - 2014.08.09 22:54:00 - [8] - Quote Smoky The Bear wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The real reason for this is the demographics--In general, people who play as heavy (not all, but most nowadays) are new players, who have a much lesser grasp of the in game mechanics or map features, or the way that CQC works, etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum we have scouts--most of the scouts who are complaining about ridiculous heavy spam are among what I lovingly call the "OG Cult". We have been around for a very long time, and I can't speak for all, but most of us went through the days of Slayer Logi permascan AR 514 with our shoulders high, and our profiles low, proud to be some of the few who actually ran scouts since day 1. These are the players who know the maps, understand the mechanics, and have become powerful while their suit was in a bad place. The heavy and the scout each attract their own types of players, however, the ones that are more liable to complain are the newer players, the ones that don't understand the mechanics or how they work, and by coincidence, these player's demographic is comprised mainly of heavies. These new players seem to have some ingrained sense of entitltement to fair 1v1 fights where even a militia heavy straight from the academy could slaughter even the game's toughest scouts. The problem is, the inherent play style that the scout utilizes requires trickery, a basic knowledge of human psychology, and an deep in depth knowledge of in-game mechanics. Most players find this unfair, and believe that by donning the all-mighty sentinel suit that they should somehow become invulnerable, and that things such as the use of tactics or even their personal gun game are useless in comparison to the incredible advantages given to them by donning said sentinel suit. When they are killed by something that is smaller and faster than them, it seems like a spit in the face, and indeed, for many, it is. They know that their skill and knowledge of game mechanics was less than that of their opponents, yet refuse to admit it. Instead, they become bitter and frustrated as they know that their gear is inherently stronger, yet they cannot beat their opponents. To this, I have to say--Suck it the **** up. Seriously. 6/10 of the scouts complaining have been scouts throughout the dark ages, where the supremacy of fine rifles and brick tanked logis with perma-scans reigned supreme, and many of us even thrived (to whatever extent we were allowed). You HMG sentinels have been given superior weaponry and suits, yet refuse to adapt to a battlefield in which tactical decisions and gun-game matter. Despite saying this, however-- Are scouts OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? Yes, for the most part. Some may need buffs post Charlie, others, nerfs. And we do openly admit it. We understand the game mechanics and the reasons why certain scouts coughCaldaricough are OP. --BUT!-- Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. However, the lack of acknowledgement of the issues making the sentinel OP as well as the condescending, brash, rude, degenerate, and occasionally illiterate ways that the Sentinel community represent themselves makes the glaring balance problems all the more annoying for many of us long-timers. TL;DR-- The reason Sentinels complain so much about scouts is because they are generally newer players, and the very way the sentinel role works causes them to resent scouts in particular. Amen brother.. Lets hear it for the scouts.. You know the ones who actually suffered from day 1 with going negative every round so their team could win.. But.. no we definately dont all agree that scouts are OP .? are u serious man? why? explain? I get 1 shot by every bluberry tryhard on the map.. Actually, I haven't gone negative much. Only to the Duvolle Focused. Man, I miss the days everyone wore Shiney Black Logi suits. I would just run up behind them and shotty my way through their health.
Games Haven Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 499	Posted - 2014.08.09 23:06:00 - [9] - Quote Scouts are almost as whiny as tankers. The struggle is real.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1959	Posted - 2014.08.10 00:51:00 - [10] - Quote Games Haven wrote: Scouts are almost as whiny as tankers. Did you read a thing i said. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor

Robocop Junior Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 611	Posted - 2014.08.10 00:58:00 - [11] - Quote No. If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
Robocop Junior Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 613	Posted - 2014.08.10 00:59:00 - [12] - Quote I mean yes. If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1960	Posted - 2014.08.10 01:00:00 - [13] - Quote retracted "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
PARKOUR PRACTIONER D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1771	Posted - 2014.08.10 01:29:00 - [14] - Quote Knowledge is power. I support this thread PSN Sil4ntChaozz Define /Z)/V//V- Anything you can do a NINJA can do better Efficient Sidearm Scout, -SR, SG, ACR
Everything Dies BIKINI BOTTOM BRIGADE 897	Posted - 2014.08.10 01:34:00 - [15] - Quote Full disclosure: Proto Gal scout Advanced Gal Sentinel At this point in time, I prefer to play as a heavy if the situation is appropriate. As a heavy, my only real concern is having a scout get the drop on me...which is exactly how things should be. The balance between the two is in a good place, wherein a scout can use speed and/or stealth to gain the upper hand while a heavy can use good positioning to force scouts to come at him/her head-on (which the heavy should win 99% of the time.) My biggest complaint is that the assault class--even with the buff in Charlie--is still a bit of the "odd man out" class. Scouts should hunt heavies, assaults hunt scouts and heavies hunt assaults in a balanced rock/paper/scissors game of give-and-take. P.S.--If you really want to hit heavies hard, just increase the heat build-up of the HMG; it's pretty ridiculous that I can burn through an entire clip with the boundless HMG without overheating. Limit the ability for heavies to lay down suppressive fire and scouts will have a much better chance of landing the kill. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof: Listen
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 923	Posted - 2014.08.10 02:19:00 - [16] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: My scout suit, which can be run by a rodent in a trackball, is sooooo hard for me to run, it takes sooo much brainpowur...er. I haz to be sneeeky by running in straight line with dampeners and shooting people who don't have enough time to react to me, because I can run faster than they can and shoot them in the head before they can start turning! run run run run run -blam- run run -blam- run run run -blam- run run run -blam-, oh I work-ed so hard, I iz being kuh-levar. now I complain about Sentinel, because if I get seen and run straight at one in an enclosed area I die to HMG shooting, that is OP! I mean, they take a full 2-3 shots to kill, so OP! If I haz shotgun. I can also out-DPS them at a range where they cannot fire back! All those useless bullets make the suit OP! I has to complain now! Do go on... http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1966	Posted - 2014.08.10 02:23:00 - [17] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Im an illiterate imbecile incapable of forming a coherent thought or argument, and would, ironically, like my opinion to be considered a valid one. Did you read a thing I wrote. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 287	Posted - 2014.08.10 02:25:00 - [18] - Quote Well. Map desing made most problems. When most points are town/building oriented (CQC within 40m), then heavies win. Medium frames looses. Well. Im curious about HF Delta. Caldari Loyalist Markiplier fan. Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 923	Posted - 2014.08.10 02:27:00 - [19] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Im an illiterate imbecile incapable of forming a coherent thought or argument, and would, ironically, like my opinion to be considered a valid one. Did you read a thing I wrote. Do you even play Dust 514, or "Illusionary Scoutworld" Define how the Sentinel is OP to scouts. Define how newcomers are the only ones playing heavies. You literally have NO PROOF for anything you stated. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1966	Posted - 2014.08.10 02:36:00 - [20] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Im an illiterate imbecile incapable of forming a coherent thought or argument, and would, ironically, like my opinion to be considered a valid one. Did you read a thing I wrote. Do you even play Dust 514, or "Illusionary Scoutworld" Define how the Sentinel is OP to scouts. Define how newcomers are the only ones playing heavies. You literally have NO PROOF for anything you stated. READ WHAT I WROTE!! You have no proof for saying I stated any of the above, despite how true certain of those statements may be. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor

Freccia di Lybra Maphia Clan Corporation 233	Posted - 2014.08.10 02:46:00 - [21] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Im an illiterate imbecile incapable of forming a coherent thought or argument, and would, ironically, like my opinion to be considered a valid one. Did you read a thing I wrote. Do you even play Dust 514, or "Illusionary Scoutworld" Define how the Sentinel is OP to scouts. Define how newcomers are the only ones playing heavies. You literally have NO PROOF for anything you stated. Numbers, my friend. And experience. Even if the hitbox is bigger, they still got a really huge amount of HP, compared to other suits. They have the highest DPS, the highest RoF and the highest bullet spread weapon. Moreover, they have passive resistances, which, combined to huge HP amounts, makes them clearly OP in theory. Now Practice: Most maps force you into close quarter combats, and any heavy there, is in heaven. Anyone stating the contrary probably use a heavy in Manus Peak (typical heavy delusion of grandeur) Ei fu, xxwhitedevilxx former Co-CEO Maphia Clan Corporation / Unit Unicorn
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 923	Posted - 2014.08.10 03:11:00 - [22] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The real reason for this is the demographics--In general, people who play as heavy (not all, but most nowadays) are new players, who have a much lesser grasp of the in game mechanics or map features, or the way that CQC works, etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum we have scouts--most of the scouts who are complaining about ridiculous heavy spam are among what I lovingly call the "OG Cult". We have been around for a very long time, and I can't speak for all, but most of us went through the days of Slayer Logi permascan AR 514 with our shoulders high, and our profiles low, proud to be some of the few who actually ran scouts since day 1. These are the players who know the maps, understand the mechanics, and have become powerful while their suit was in a bad place. The heavy and the scout each attract their own types of players, however, the ones that are more liable to complain are the newer players, the ones that don't understand the mechanics or how they work, and by coincidence, these player's demographic is comprised mainly of heavies. These new players seem to have some ingrained sense of entitltement to fair 1v1 fights where even a militia heavy straight from the academy could slaughter even the game's toughest scouts. The problem is, the inherent play style that the scout utilizes requires trickery, a basic knowledge of human psychology, and an deep in depth knowledge of in-game mechanics. Most players find this unfair, and believe that by donning the all-mighty sentinel suit that they should somehow become invulnerable, and that things such as the use of tactics or even their personal gun game are useless in comparison to the incredible advantages given to them by donning said sentinel suit. When they are killed by something that is smaller and faster than them, it seems like a spit in the face, and indeed, for many, it is. They know that their skill and knowledge of game mechanics was less than that of their opponents, yet refuse to admit it. Instead, they become bitter and frustrated as they know that their gear is inherently stronger, yet they cannot beat their opponents. To this, I have to say--Suck it the ** up. Seriously. 6/10 of the scouts complaining have been scouts throughout the dark ages, where the supremacy of fine rifles and brick tanked logis with perma-scans reigned supreme, and many of us even thrived (to whatever extent we were allowed). You HMG sentinels have been given superior weaponry and suits, yet refuse to adapt to a battlefield in which tactical decisions and gun-game matter. Despite saying this, however-- Are scouts OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? Yes, for the most part. Some may need buffs post Charlie, others, nerfs. And we do openly admit it. We understand the game mechanics and the reasons why certain scouts coughCaldaricough are OP. --BUT!-- Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. However, the lack of acknowledgement of the issues making the sentinel OP as well as the condescending, brash, rude, degenerate, and occasionally illiterate ways that the Sentinel community represent themselves makes the glaring balance problems all the more annoying for many of us long-timers. TL;DR-- The reason Sentinels complain so much about scouts is because they are generally newer players, and the very way the sentinel role works causes them to resent scouts in particular. Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:** READ WHAT I WROTE!! You have no proof for saying I stated any of the above, despite how true certain of those statements may be. ..... Seriously? Now you're claiming that your own post is not proof enough of what you wrote? http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11306	Posted - 2014.08.10 03:13:00 - [23] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The real reason for this is the demographics--In general, people who play as heavy (not all, but most nowadays) are new players, who have a much lesser grasp of the in game mechanics or map features, or the way that CQC works, etc. Though there are a great number of MLT and STD Sentinel Frames on the field, I don't really find this plausable, and there seems to be a lack of evidence within this post to support this claim. Source? On the opposite end of the spectrum we have scouts--most of the scouts who are complaining about ridiculous heavy spam are among what I lovingly call the "OG Cult". We have been around for a very long time, and I can't speak for all, but most of us went through the days of Slayer Logi permascan AR 514 with our shoulders high, and our profiles low, proud to be some of the few who actually ran scouts since day 1. These are the players who know the maps, understand the mechanics, and have become powerful while their suit was in a bad place. This is true, so I will not debate it. Though personally I refer to pre-Uprising 1.7 Scouts as "Barbers". The heavy and the scout each attract their own types of players, however, the ones that are more liable to complain are the newer players, the ones that don't understand the mechanics or how they work, and by coincidence, these player's demographic is comprised mainly of heavies. Is there any data showing the latter to be true? Without such data, one could say the same of Scout users with the same amount of credibility. These new players seem to have some ingrained sense of entitlement to fair 1v1 fights where even a militia heavy straight from the academy could slaughter even the game's toughest scouts. The problem is, the inherent play style that the scout utilizes requires trickery, a basic knowledge of human psychology, and an deep in depth knowledge of in-game mechanics. Is there any data to show that the first part of the paragraph is true? If not, this is a Strawman. Though being a Scout user requires none of those traits (barring the latter to an extent). You have passive scans which have the ability to cover a vast area with very low Precision, meaning you don't need to rely on trickery/being cunning as you're fully aware of where your targets are, as well as the direction they're facing. As for basic knowledge on Human Psychology, I'm just going to assume that this is a light heated joke. Most players find this unfair, and believe that by donning the all-mighty sentinel suit that they should somehow become invulnerable, and that things such as the use of tactics or even their personal gun game are useless in comparison to the incredible advantages given to them by donning said sentinel suit. This is both a Strawman, and an Association Fallacy. When they are killed by something that is smaller and faster than them, it seems like a spit in the face, and indeed, for many, it is. They know that their skill and knowledge of game mechanics was less than that of their opponents, yet refuse to admit it. Instead, they become bitter and frustrated as they know that their gear is inherently stronger, yet they cannot beat their opponents. Are there any factual sources and/or evidence you have to support this claim? To this, I have to say--Suck it the ** up. Seriously. 6/10 of the scouts complaining have been scouts throughout the dark ages, where the supremacy of fine rifles and brick tanked logis with perma-scans reigned supreme, and many of us even thrived (to whatever extent we were allowed). The same could be said of Sentinels. Though neither the Scouts nor Sentinels had to go through as much $#!t as the Commandos did, as there were ways to make yourselves somewhat effective (Brick Tanking for Light Frames, and Logi Support for Sentinels). You HMG sentinels have been given superior weaponry and suits, yet refuse to adapt to a battlefield in which tactical decisions and gun-game matter.** The former could be said of Scouts as well. Despite saying this, however-- Are scouts OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? Yes, for the most part. Some may need buffs post Charlie, others, nerfs. And we do openly admit it. We understand the game mechanics and the reasons why certain scouts coughCaldaricough are OP. --BUT!-- Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. Well, at least you aren't a complete ~~Scout~~ FoTM apologist. However, the lack of acknowledgement of the issues making the sentinel OP as well as the condescending, brash, rude, degenerate, and occasionally illiterate ways that the Sentinel community represent themselves makes the glaring balance problems all the more annoying for many of us long-timers. This I can agree with, though this makes it annoying for other subsets as well. TL;DR-- The reason Sentinels complain so much about scouts is because they are generally newer players, and the very way the sentinel role works causes them to resent scouts in particular. Source? I'm all for a good Sentinel bashing, but dude. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Thumb Green The Valyrian Guard 1229	Posted - 2014.08.10 03:13:00 - [24] - Quote I don't know man, seems to be quite a few people complaining about heavies. Kill Scotty
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2055	Posted - 2014.08.10 06:15:00 - [25] - Quote How fix scouts, remove cloaks, lower cpu/pg, and fix the issue of hit detection the cal scout Can the other voices in other peoples minds hear my voices in my head????
Grimm Hammer Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 3	Posted - 2014.08.10 06:24:00 - [26] - Quote wait....dust is getting new people??!? o.O
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y Dark Taboo 160	Posted - 2014.08.10 07:50:00 - [27] - Quote Wall-o-text makes me cry inside :c G.L.O.R.Y solider, Master of the Gallente Heavy
Copharus Arkana Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2014.08.10 08:25:00 - [28] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The real reason for this is the demographics--In general, people who play as heavy (not all, but most nowadays) are new players, who have a much lesser grasp of the in game mechanics or map features, or the way that CQC works, etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum we have scouts--most of the scouts who are complaining about ridiculous heavy spam are among what I lovingly call the "OG Cult". We have been around for a very long time, and I can't speak for all, but most of us went through the days of Slayer Logi permascan AR 514 with our shoulders high, and our profiles low, proud to be some of the few who actually ran scouts since day 1. These are the players who know the maps, understand the mechanics, and have become powerful while their suit was in a bad place. The heavy and the scout each attract their own types of players, however, the ones that are more liable to complain are the newer players, the ones that don't understand the mechanics or how they work, and by coincidence, these player's demographic is comprised mainly of heavies. These new players seem to have some ingrained sense of entitltement to fair 1v1 fights where even a militia heavy straight from the academy could slaughter even the game's toughest scouts. The problem is, the inherent play style that the scout utilizes requires trickery, a basic knowledge of human psychology, and an deep in depth knowledge of in-game mechanics. Most players find this unfair, and believe that by donning the all-mighty sentinel suit that they should somehow become invulnerable, and that things such as the use of tactics or even their personal gun game are useless in comparison to the incredible advantages given to them by donning said sentinel suit. When they are killed by something that is smaller and faster than them, it seems like a spit in the face, and indeed, for many, it is. They know that their skill and knowledge of game mechanics was less than that of their opponents, yet refuse to admit it. Instead, they become bitter and frustrated as they know that their gear is inherently stronger, yet they cannot beat their opponents. To this, I have to say--Suck it the **** up. Seriously. 6/10 of the scouts complaining have been scouts throughout the dark ages, where the supremacy of fine rifles and brick tanked logis with perma-scans reigned supreme, and many of us even thrived (to whatever extent we were allowed). You HMG sentinels have been given superior weaponry and suits, yet refuse to adapt to a battlefield in which tactical decisions and gun-game matter. Despite saying this, however-- Are scouts OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? Yes, for the most part. Some may need buffs post Charlie, others, nerfs. And we do openly admit it. We understand the game mechanics and the reasons why certain scouts coughCaldaricough are OP. --BUT!-- Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. However, the lack of acknowledgement of the issues making the sentinel OP as well as the condescending, brash, rude, degenerate, and occasionally illiterate ways that the Sentinel community represent themselves makes the glaring balance problems all the more annoying for many of us long-timers. TL;DR-- The reason Sentinels complain so much about scouts is because they are generally newer players, and the very way the sentinel role works causes them to resent scouts in particular. This is a wonderful example why heavys should be removed from the game.
lloyder EIRE Mcalpines Fusiliers Covert Intervention 10	Posted - 2014.08.10 08:40:00 - [29] - Quote my problem with scouts is the amount of bullets it takes me to kill one most the time i nearly empty a clip of sub into them wile they are running head on towards me ur hp says u should die in seconds yet they manage to run at u though wat would kill any normal suit and pull out a shotgun jump then kill me i don't believe that is tactical at all its broken Mcalpines Fusiliers is where I was born and it shall be my Death Bed
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11615	Posted - 2014.08.10 08:45:00 - [30] - Quote Yeah I'll just sit in the corner in my Assault suit, wait until mommy and daddy stop fighting. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1842	Posted - 2014.08.10 08:53:00 - [31] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Yeah I'll just sit in the corner in my Assault suit, wait until mommy and daddy stop fighting. These are your PARENTS???? No wonder you're incurably insane. Do the universe a favor and shoot them repeatedly until common sense returns.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11615	Posted - 2014.08.10 09:01:00 - [32] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Yeah I'll just sit in the corner in my Assault suit, wait until mommy and daddy stop fighting. These are your PARENTS???? No wonder you're incurably insane. Do the universe a favor and shoot them repeatedly until common sense returns. Both of them could kill me with a sneeze Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1723	Posted - 2014.08.10 10:05:00 - [33] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The real reason for this is the demographics--In general, people who play as heavy (not all, but most nowadays) are new players, who have a much lesser grasp of the in game mechanics or map features, or the way that CQC works, etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum we have scouts--most of the scouts who are complaining about ridiculous heavy spam are among what I lovingly call the "OG Cult". We have been around for a very long time, and I can't speak for all, but most of us went through the days of Slayer Logi permascan AR 514 with our shoulders high, and our profiles low, proud to be some of the few who actually ran scouts since day 1. These are the players who know the maps, understand the mechanics, and have become powerful while their suit was in a bad place. The heavy and the scout each attract their own types of players, however, the ones that are more liable to complain are the newer players, the ones that don't understand the mechanics or how they work, and by coincidence, these player's demographic is comprised mainly of heavies. These new players seem to have some ingrained sense of entitltement to fair 1v1 fights where even a militia heavy straight from the academy could slaughter even the game's toughest scouts. The problem is, the inherent play style that the scout utilizes requires trickery, a basic knowledge of human psychology, and an deep in depth knowledge of in-game mechanics. Most players find this unfair, and believe that by donning the all-mighty sentinel suit that they should somehow become invulnerable, and that things such as the use of tactics or even their personal gun game are useless in comparison to the incredible advantages given to them by donning said sentinel suit. When they are killed by something that is smaller and faster than them, it seems like a spit in the face, and indeed, for many, it is. They know that their skill and knowledge of game mechanics was less than that of their opponents, yet refuse to admit it. Instead, they become bitter and frustrated as they know that their gear is inherently stronger, yet they cannot beat their opponents. To this, I have to say--Suck it the ** up. Seriously. 6/10 of the scouts complaining have been scouts throughout the dark ages, where the supremacy of fine rifles and brick tanked logis with perma-scans reigned supreme, and many of us even thrived (to whatever extent we were allowed). You HMG sentinels have been given superior weaponry and suits, yet refuse to adapt to a battlefield in which tactical decisions and gun-game matter. Despite saying this, however-- Are scouts OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? Yes, for the most part. Some may need buffs post Charlie, others, nerfs. And we do openly admit it. We understand the game mechanics and the reasons why certain scouts coughCaldaricough are OP. --BUT!-- Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. However, the lack of acknowledgement of the issues making the sentinel OP as well as the condescending, brash, rude, degenerate, and occasionally illiterate ways that the Sentinel community represent themselves makes the glaring balance problems all the more annoying for many of us long-timers. TL;DR-- The reason Sentinels complain so much about scouts is because they are generally newer players, and the very way the sentinel role works causes them to resent scouts in particular. An excellent example of the inherent elitism and general disdain of anything that can't be killed in two SG blasts that infests the majority of scout players. SPOILER ALERT! Heavies can have decent gungame too. I'd also like to note that your little speech, specifically Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:** Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. fails to acknowledge the proto HMG range nerf and the HMG heat increase, which promotes a more skill based point defense playstyle. You also did not note the harsh reduction to CPU and PG which combined with the heavy weapon fitting bonus that a Sentinel will get discourages light weapon Sentinels. Posts like this that are absolutely dripping with bias are the main reason that I find it hard to take scouts seriously. P.S. I've been a heavy since when it was the only suit the Amarr had... Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando IV, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3255	Posted - 2014.08.10 10:41:00 - [34] - Quote No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343 This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a Minmatar assault suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
RendonaSix Tech Dungeon Of Servility 229	Posted - 2014.08.10 10:51:00 - [35] - Quote Scout since beta here. What dark ages?. Its actually always been pretty good. Don't you remember being able to run quicker than hit detection?. Tell me what wrong with this fit. Amarr ak0 Highs - 2 complex shield extenders. Lows - 1 armour repair, 2 plates, 1 shield regulator or plate. Weapons - proto assault rr , proto scp. Equipment - ADV cloak, std uplinks. That's a fairly modest fit as well, I could put better stuff on that. Runs as quick as an assault. This fit can pretty much do everything better than anything. Just swap around the weapons and equipment right?. I fight everyone on my terms and if it gets hairy, I run off and hide with my cloak. I don't actually use this fit but its there. I run knives and a bolt pistol 99% of the time with an ewar setup. Scout are a Swiss army knife, that is not what they were and I'm certain that it is not what they are supposed to be. If you ask me, I think a lot of heavies and scouts are talking pure sht. Amarr scout before it was cool.
J0hlss0n Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 171	Posted - 2014.08.10 10:53:00 - [36] - Quote RendonaSix wrote: If you ask me, I think a lot of heavies and scouts are talking pure sht. Best thing said in this thread.
RendonaSix Tech Dungeon Of Servility 229	Posted - 2014.08.10 11:00:00 - [37] - Quote J0hlss0n wrote: RendonaSix wrote: If you ask me, I think a lot of heavies and scouts are talking pure sht. Best thing said in this thread. Thanks, in all honesty, there was never and has never been a dark age for scouts. These supposed dark ages are where the less skilled fell through the cracks. Just like the heavy dark age, yeah it was hard but still owned, the scrubs fell through the cracks. Just like the assault dark age, yeah it was hard but still owned, the scrubs fell through the cracks. Just like the logi dark age........I don't think I need to go on. Amarr scout before it was cool.
RendonaSix Tech Dungeon Of Servility 229	Posted - 2014.08.10 11:02:00 - [38] - Quote Anyway hotfix Charlie is fixing a lot. As much as I like my Amarr scout buff, it is now going to be as ridiculously easy to use as the others now. Scouts need tweaking seriously. Amarr scout before it was cool.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1983	Posted - 2014.08.10 17:20:00 - [39] - Quote RendonaSix wrote: J0hlss0n wrote: RendonaSix wrote: If you ask me, I think a lot of heavies and scouts are talking pure sht. Best thing said in this thread. Thanks, in all honesty, there was never and has never been a dark age for scouts. These supposed dark ages are where the less skilled fell through the cracks. Just like the heavy dark age, yeah it was hard but still owned, the scrubs fell through the cracks. Just like the assault dark age, yeah it was hard but still owned, the scrubs fell through the cracks. Just like the logi dark age........I don't think I need to go on. From the beginning of uprising to 1.8 is what I consider the dark ages, where a medium frame Logi suit could outperform a scout in just about every way there was to outperform a scout. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Smoky The Bear THE SMOKIN GUNZ Dark Taboo 158	Posted - 2014.08.10 17:31:00 - [40] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343 This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a Minmatar assault suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP. That fit that you linked has around a total of 400 hp's with NO kincat.. lol.. Garbage fit slower than a heavy... the Gallente suit DOES NOT FRICKEN HAVE anywheres NEAR 800 EHP.. With Nothing but plates and shield extenders you can get 600 Hp's but once again no kincat, and no dampening or precision = sitting duck.. you obviously dont have a scout ..

Thurak1 Psygod9 909	Posted - 2014.08.10 17:35:00 - [41] - Quote Lol I usually defend sentinals and remind people the very specific role that sentinels fill. However with this thread i am just going to sit back and make some popcorn this is hilarious.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1984	Posted - 2014.08.10 17:54:00 - [42] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343 This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a Minmatar assault suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP. But with the buff to assaults, the "Assault scout" will hopefully disappear, and we can go back to being the shotgunners/NK'ers in the dark that we were built to be. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3185	Posted - 2014.08.10 18:35:00 - [43] - Quote I disagree. You wanna know why people complain about scouts? Because they are simultaneously the fastest class and invisible. And don't give me the whole, "you can see their shimmer," argument, because you would be right, only up until I start shooting at them, at which point they become literally invisible due to the massive amount of muzzle flash on my weapon. Stop shooting, let your eyes adjust, find them again, shoot another burst at them, stop, let your ey....nope, now you're dead. Also, the bug that allows scouts to shoot BEFORE their decloak animation has finished definitely isn't helping their PR, at least sentinels don't kill you with straight-up broken mechanics. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3259	Posted - 2014.08.10 18:59:00 - [44] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343 This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a Minmatar assault suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP. But with the buff to assaults, the "Assault scout" will hopefully disappear, and we can go back to being the shotgunners/NK'ers in the dark that we were built to be. We can only hope! While I'm happy to let it play for the time being, it maybe we have to see a drop layout reduction. The Scout can achieve everything and more than an Assault suit can, with minimal drawbacks. You said Scouts were being complained at more than sentinels because sentinels were supposedly newer players. The truth of the matter is simple. Scouts are meant to be low eHP Assassins and eWAR masters. They do this and more (that they shouldn't be able to) Sentinels are meamt to be slow moving, high eHP walking tanks. They do this and they do it well. It is easier to say a scout is broken because it operates outside of its expected parameters, while the sentinel is not quite so cut and dry, because it does what it's supposed, the question is, does it do it too well? They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3259	Posted - 2014.08.10 19:09:00 - [45] - Quote Smoky The Bear wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343 This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a Minmatar assault suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP. That fit that you linked has around a total of 400 hp's with NO kincat.. 3x Plates provides 443 HP before base. This is a bare-faced lie Garbage fit slower than a heavy... This fits movement speed 4.67 m/s a heavies movement speee 3.72 m/s This is a bare-faced lie. the Gallente suit DOES NOT FRICKEN HAVE anywheres NEAR 800 EHP.. The above fit has 760 eHP that's very near 800 eHP With Nothing but plates and shield extenders you can get 600 Hp's but once again no kincat, and no dampening or precision = sitting duck.. you obviously dont have a scout .. Even with no Kincat dampening or prescision you still have better speed, dampening and presiscion than any medium or heavy suits can logically achieve without having less than 500 eHP Your entire post is a bare faced lie Good-day! They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1989	Posted - 2014.08.10 19:32:00 - [46] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343 This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a Minmatar assault suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP. But with the buff to assaults, the "Assault scout" will hopefully disappear, and we can go back to being the shotgunners/NK'ers in the dark that we were built to be. We can only hope! While I'm happy to let it play for the time being, it maybe we have to see a drop layout reduction. The Scout can achieve everything and more than an Assault suit can, with minimal drawbacks. You said Scouts were being complained at more than sentinels because sentinels were supposedly newer players. The truth of the matter is simple. Scouts are meant to be low eHP Assassins and eWAR masters. They do this and more (that they shouldn't be able to) Sentinels are meamt to be slow moving, high eHP walking tanks. They do this and they do it well. It is easier to say a scout is broken because it operates outside of its expected parameters, while the sentinel is not quite so cut and dry, because it does what it's supposed, the question is, does it do it too well? Thats actually very good analysis of the current situation IMO "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1873	Posted - 2014.08.10 19:38:00 - [47] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Thats actually very good analysis of the current situation IMO This is a ranting QQ thread. Quit playing nice. Bluntly I think that reserving judgment till the patch drops is appropriate. Honestly I find that whiteroom numbers mean jack-all to live implementation. It can help, but by the logic some people use, I should never get kills in any reality. And yet... Tanks... So very tasty...
Kam Elto KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 417	Posted - 2014.08.10 19:39:00 - [48] - Quote Give it a rest OP. You're constant whining about heavies is becoming tiresome. Maybe, just maybe the problem is that you're just not a good scout.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1990	Posted - 2014.08.10 19:40:00 - [49] - Quote Kam Elto wrote: Give it a rest OP. You're constant whining about heavies is becoming tiresome. Maybe, just maybe the problem is that you're just not a good scout. Your* Secondly, please read what I wrote. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
iKILLu osborne Dead Man's Game 142	Posted - 2014.08.10 20:15:00 - [50] - Quote lloyder EIRE wrote: my problem with scouts is the amount of bullets it takes me to kill one most the time i nearly empty a clip of sub into them wile they are running head on towards me ur hp says u should die in seconds yet they manage to run at u though wat would kill any normal suit and pull out a shotgun jump then kill me i don't believe that is tactical at all its broken or it could be you have crappy aim trololololl "uh guys" "i got to go back to the depot that installation made me crap my dropsuit"

13ear Chatelain Rapid Response 206	Posted - 2014.08.10 20:16:00 - [51] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343 This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a Minmatar assault suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP. I'd just like to point out that that fit you've provided a link for, is not faster than a minmatar assault suit. In fact it's slower than a minmatar logistics suits. I'll be the first to admit that scouts outclass assaults in almost every way, they're are too many advantages & too few disadvantages to using a scout suit. But when you have 700+ EHP on a scout suit, especially an armour tanked scout suit, you have to make sacrifices. The only scout suit that has no problem in playing the assault role effectively is the CalScout, which is by far the most OP scout suit. Imho the reason that the skilled players have such an issue w/ the trash players (HMG users) is the ease of use. We had the same issue w/ the RR, it's not just that's it's OP, it's the fact that it's so unbelievably easy to use that is takes any and all skill out of the equation. It's baffling to me that anyone who uses the HMG can imply scout SG is ez mode. The main reason I miss chromosome is the fact that more often than not, the deciding factor in a straight up fight regardless of what suit or weapon you were using, was player ability. The scout SGers you see facerolling heavies and going 50/0 did so w/ less EHP than you, less DPS than you & less range than you. They didn't beat you b/c the scout suit's OP. They beat you b/c they're the better than you. Admittedly not all scouts play this way, there are some who just tank their suits and camp w/ long range rifles... I don't see this as being a problem anymore b/c assaults will now do a far better job of it. Winner of EU Squad Cup
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1725	Posted - 2014.08.10 20:28:00 - [52] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Kam Elto wrote: Give it a rest OP. You're constant whining about heavies is becoming tiresome. Maybe, just maybe the problem is that you're just not a good scout. Your* Secondly, please read what I wrote. I did and as painful as the elitist bullsht you keep spewing was the thing that bugged me the most is the fact that you: Refuse to acknowledge that Sentinels can have good gungame Refuse to comment on the HMG tweaks Refuse to comment on the fact that light weapon Sentinels will take a huge nerf come hotfix charlie Refuse to wait for charlie's effects to be felt before trying nerf the Sentinel further ABSOLUTELY 100% REFUSE TO KEEP YOUR DMN PRO SCOUT BIAS OUT OF THE DISCUSSION Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando IV, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Copharus Arkana Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2014.08.10 20:30:00 - [53] - Quote 13ear wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343 This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a Minmatar assault suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP. I'd just like to point out that that fit you've provided a link for, is not faster than a minmatar assault suit. In fact it's slower than a minmatar logistics suits. I'll be the first to admit that scouts outclass assaults in almost every way, they're are too many advantages & too few disadvantages to using a scout suit. But when you have 700+ EHP on a scout suit, especially an armour tanked scout suit, you have to make sacrifices. The only scout suit that has no problem in playing the assault role effectively is the CalScout, which is by far the most OP scout suit. Imho the reason that the skilled players have such an issue w/ the trash players (HMG users) is the ease of use. We had the same issue w/ the RR, it's not just that's it's OP, it's the fact that it's so unbelievably easy to use that is takes any and all skill out of the equation. It's baffling to me that anyone who uses the HMG can imply scout SG is ez mode. The main reason I miss chromosome is the fact that more often than not, the deciding factor in a straight up fight regardless of what suit or weapon you were using, was player ability. The scout SGers you see facerolling heavies and going 50/0 did so w/ less EHP than you, less DPS than you & less range than you. They didn't beat you b/c the scout suit's OP. They beat you b/c they're the better than you. Admittedly not all scouts play this way, there are some who just tank their suits and camp w/ long range rifles... I don't see this as being a problem anymore b/c assaults will now do a far better job of it. Exactly! Its just too easy to be a heavy, a monkey could do it. And what do heavys do for the team? Nothing! There just there to pad there undeserved KDRs! Heavys provide no tactical help to anyone, there simply a crutch for **** scrubs! They need to be removed!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1990	Posted - 2014.08.10 20:33:00 - [54] - Quote 13ear wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343 This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a Minmatar assault suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP. I'd just like to point out that that fit you've provided a link for, is not faster than a minmatar assault suit. In fact it's slower than a minmatar logistics suits. I'll be the first to admit that scouts outclass assaults in almost every way, they're are too many advantages & too few disadvantages to using a scout suit. But when you have 700+ EHP on a scout suit, especially an armour tanked scout suit, you have to make sacrifices. The only scout suit that has no problem in playing the assault role effectively is the CalScout, which is by far the most OP scout suit. Imho the reason that the skilled players have such an issue w/ the trash players (HMG users) is the ease of use. We had the same issue w/ the RR, it's not just that's it's OP, it's the fact that it's so unbelievably easy to use that is takes any and all skill out of the equation. It's baffling to me that anyone who uses the HMG can imply scout SG is ez mode. The main reason I miss chromosome is the fact that more often than not, the deciding factor in a straight up fight regardless of what suit or weapon you were using, was player ability. The scout SGers you see facerolling heavies and going 50/0 did so w/ less EHP than you, less DPS than you & less range than you. They didn't beat you b/c the scout suit's OP. They beat you b/c they're the better than you. Admittedly not all scouts play this way, there are some who just tank their suits and camp w/ long range rifles... I don't see this as being a problem anymore b/c assaults will now do a far better job of it. This^^ "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
MythTanker Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 211	Posted - 2014.08.10 23:16:00 - [55] - Quote Lol... This post tho... Without statistical prove you say that most new players are heavies... I think we can all see that it would be a balance in between all suits, or even scouts and heavies for that fact... You just can't wait for hotfix charlie can you? No you want to see statistical prove that you can get easy kill on heavies with no effort involved... I would love to have an intelligent conversation with you, but... You are the best example of a QQ extremist... Bojo gives awesome arguments, try to be like him more... You are proving with every post you make that you don't want to negotiate these changes unless its laid 100% in your favor... You are starting to sound like a FOTM chaser... The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his -George S. Patton
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3260	Posted - 2014.08.10 23:32:00 - [56] - Quote 13ear wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343 This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a Minmatar assault suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP. I'd just like to point out that that fit you've provided a link for, is not faster than a minmatar assault suit. In fact it's slower than a minmatar logistics suit.s *Yeah I'll acknowledge that, I originally read the wrong number, but despite having 3 plates it's still faster than the Minmatar Heavy.* I'll be the first to admit that scouts outclass assaults in almost every way, they're are too many advantages & too few disadvantages to using a scout suit right now. But when you have 700+ EHP on a scout suit, especially an armour tanked scout suit, you have to make sacrifices. Speed is of course, the main one. The only scout suit that can effectively play the assault role w/o any real drawbacks is the CalScout, which is by far the most OP scout suit. Very few sacrifices, then gallante do not need to sacrifice so many armour platesmfpr dampeners, the amarr can dual tank to sacrifice little overall. The only one at a disadvantage is the Min Scout because of it having such poor eHP. Imho the reason that skilled players have such an issue w/ those that use the HMG is simply the ease of use. We had the same issue w/ the RR, it's not just that it's OP, it's the fact that it's so unbelievably easy to use that is takes any and all skill out of the equation. It's baffling to me that anyone who uses the HMG can imply that the scout SG combo is ez mode. Saying the HMG requires no gun game is equally baffling, if skill was not part of the equation my poor skill with a HMG wouldn't pertain that I loose to an ADV Rifle, or that I wouldn't be capable of defeating a PRO sentinel with a STD shotgun on an ADV Assault suit. It all depends on your perception of skill, I personally do not count chop strafing as skillful, yet other players wouldn't do nearly as well as they do without it. The HMG like Aim Assist is Anti-ChopStrafe which some people wrongly believe is removing skill. The main reason I miss chromosome is the fact that more often than not, the deciding factor in a straight up fight regardless of what suit or weapon you were using, was player ability. Which at the same time was one of chromes fatal flaws, I could bring a suit resistant to your weaponry, a weapon which was more powerful against your suit and still loose to you because your ability to abuse Hit detection was more superior than mine, that isn't even remotely fair. Player skill should not be the deciding factor in a 1v1 fight. Player skill should be having the awareness to retreat and re engage when the odds are clearly not in your favour. The scout SGers you see facerolling heavies and going 50/0 did so w/ less EHP than you, less DPS than you & less range than you. They didn't beat you b/c the scout suit's OP. They beat you b/c they're the better than you. This is circumstantial evidence, personally EVERY scout I HAVE PERSOANLLY seen facing rolling heavies and going 50/0 also has more eHP than I do, (while still maintaining all of the scouts other bonuses) are you telling me each and everyone one of those players are actually better than me or am I simply playing an UP suit? Admittedly not all scouts play this way, there are some who just dual tank and camp w/ long range rifles... I don't see this as being a issue for much longer as assaults will now do it far more effectively. *As you and I both know theory and practice are rarely the same, but hopefully, yes we will see this come hotfix charlie* In total your post is rather biased to scouts, you show believe that scouts have skill than any other class in the game, seemingly ignoring the benifits the suit gives in order to fulfill this role. While the suit I have shown is rather slow by comparison to most scouts, the fact I can willingly choose to fit a scout suit like this AND still have superior eWAR stats compared to anything but eWAR tanked scout is problematic. After all I don't see many complaints about 250 eHP scouts shotgunning people because if a 250 eHP scout misses one shot he is normally dead. Furthermore to say a shotgun requires more skills than any other weapon is simply biased tp scouts. It still has decent range and damage. If you wish to say a scout has skill replace that shotgun with a pair of Nova Knives, even then you will have a much easier time at using them than my 300 eHP Minmatar Assault who still has poorer eWAR stats. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. 407	Posted - 2014.08.10 23:52:00 - [57] - Quote It's cloaks. No skill / gun game needed. Free kills because you're invisible hurray. If you want to fix sniping, consult those who snipe.
Everything Dies BIKINI BOTTOM BRIGADE 901	Posted - 2014.08.11 01:21:00 - [58] - Quote Smoky The Bear wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343 This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a Minmatar assault suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP. That fit that you linked has around a total of 400 hp's with NO kincat.. lol.. Garbage fit slower than a heavy... the Gallente suit DOES NOT FRICKEN HAVE anywheres NEAR 800 EHP.. With Nothing but plates and shield extenders you can get 600 Hp's but once again no kincat, and no dampening or precision = sitting duck.. you obviously dont have a scout .. My proto Gal scout with advanced shield extenders and advanced plates gives me over 700HP and a speed of 6.9 or so, with plenty of room left for proto shields/plates if/when I unlock them. So yes, you can get similar HP to an assault class with better speed, scanning, dampening, passive armor regen AND an extra item slot...hence, the assault suit buff in Charlie. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof: Listen
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 229	Posted - 2014.08.11 02:32:00 - [59] - Quote I cried and came several times while reading. 10/10 post would read to grandchildren Stabby-stabber extraordinaire
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1993	Posted - 2014.08.11 02:39:00 - [60] - Quote MythTanker wrote: Lol... This post tho... Without statistical prove you say that most new players are heavies... I think we can all see that it would be a balance in between all suits, or even scouts and heavies for that fact... You just can't wait for hotfix charlie can you? No you want to see statistical prove that you can get easy kill on heavies with no effort involved... I would love to have an intelligent conversation with you, but... You are the best example of a QQ extremist... Bojo gives awesome arguments, try to be like him more... You are proving with every post you make that you don't want to negotiate these changes unless its laid 100% in your favor... You are starting to sound like a FOTM chaser... This was entirely theory, with no mathematical proof to back up any of my claims whatsoever, and should be read as such. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor

Rowdy Railgunner Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 451	Posted - 2014.08.11 03:14:00 - [61] - Quote Cal Scout still has a broken hitbox and needs to be nerfed.
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1736	Posted - 2014.08.11 04:04:00 - [62] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: MythTanker wrote: Lol... This post tho... Without statistical prove you say that most new players are heavies... I think we can all see that it would be a balance in between all suits, or even scouts and heavies for that fact... You just can't wait for hotfix charlie can you? No you want to see statistical prove that you can get easy kill on heavies with no effort involved... I would love to have an intelligent conversation with you, but... You are the best example of a QQ extremist... Bojo gives awesome arguments, try to be like him more... You are proving with every post you make that you don't want to negotiate these changes unless its laid 100% in your favor... You are starting to sound like a FOTM chaser... This was entirely theory, with no mathematical proof to back up any of my claims whatsoever, and should be read as such. So read as the bullsh*t it is aye o7 Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando IV, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1993	Posted - 2014.08.11 04:13:00 - [63] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: MythTanker wrote: Lol... This post tho... Without statistical prove you say that most new players are heavies... I think we can all see that it would be a balance in between all suits, or even scouts and heavies for that fact... You just can't wait for hotfix charlie can you? No you want to see statistical prove that you can get easy kill on heavies with no effort involved... I would love to have an intelligent conversation with you, but... You are the best example of a QQ extremist... Bojo gives awesome arguments, try to be like him more... You are proving with every post you make that you don't want to negotiate these changes unless its laid 100% in your favor... You are starting to sound like a FOTM chaser... This was entirely theory, with no mathematical proof to back up any of my claims whatsoever, and should be read as such. So read as the bullsh*t it is aye o7 While it doesn't have the substance that it should, it does bring up a few valid points that Id like people to acknowledge. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1736	Posted - 2014.08.11 04:57:00 - [64] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: MythTanker wrote: Lol... This post tho... Without statistical prove you say that most new players are heavies... I think we can all see that it would be a balance in between all suits, or even scouts and heavies for that fact... You just can't wait for hotfix charlie can you? No you want to see statistical prove that you can get easy kill on heavies with no effort involved... I would love to have an intelligent conversation with you, but... You are the best example of a QQ extremist... Bojo gives awesome arguments, try to be like him more... You are proving with every post you make that you don't want to negotiate these changes unless its laid 100% in your favor... You are starting to sound like a FOTM chaser... This was entirely theory, with no mathematical proof to back up any of my claims whatsoever, and should be read as such. So read as the bullsht it is aye o7 While it doesn't have the substance that it should, it does bring up a few valid points that Id like people to acknowledge. I'd rather you admit that your entire OP is a pile of elitist sht and you have little to no idea of what it means to be a heavy... Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando IV, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Copharus Arkana Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2014.08.11 05:19:00 - [65] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: MythTanker wrote: Lol... This post tho... Without statistical prove you say that most new players are heavies... I think we can all see that it would be a balance in between all suits, or even scouts and heavies for that fact... You just can't wait for hotfix charlie can you? No you want to see statistical prove that you can get easy kill on heavies with no effort involved... I would love to have an intelligent conversation with you, but... You are the best example of a QQ extremist... Bojo gives awesome arguments, try to be like him more... You are proving with every post you make that you don't want to negotiate these changes unless its laid 100% in your favor... You are starting to sound like a FOTM chaser... This was entirely theory, with no mathematical proof to back up any of my claims whatsoever, and should be read as such. So read as the bullsht it is aye o7 While it doesn't have the substance that it should, it does bring up a few valid points that Id like people to acknowledge. I'd rather you admit that your entire OP is a pile of elitist sht and you have little to no idea of what it means to be a heavy... It means nothing to be a heavy. What do you even do for the team? Heavys are simply hungry mindless land sharks, killing anything in there sight that moves. The heavy is always played by such scrubby players, and the roll is so easy to use they think there good at this game. Give me one valid reason why we shouldn't just remove heavys already.
Stryker Syx Vector Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2014.08.11 05:40:00 - [66] - Quote Seems like a lot of hate right now. I don't get why can't we all acknowledge that scouts are effective and have their place on the battlefield as well as heavies. I run scout by the way and I honestly believe heavies and scouts do what they should. Scouts are cloak and dagger, and if done right yeah they become a pain. So does a good heavy who knows how to watch it's flank and not overestimate yourself. Which happens a lot. But to say most scrubs are heavies is completely out of line. Every suit has strengths and weaknesses. Complaining won't make you a better player no matter how much you do it.
Jathniel G I A N T 1135	Posted - 2014.08.11 06:07:00 - [67] - Quote lol Peeps typing out fkin dissertations, and the hotfix hasn't even dropped yet. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 705	Posted - 2014.08.11 06:15:00 - [68] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The real reason for this is the demographics--In general, people who play as heavy (not all, but most nowadays) are new players, who have a much lesser grasp of the in game mechanics or map features, or the way that CQC works, etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum we have scouts--most of the scouts who are complaining about ridiculous heavy spam are among what I lovingly call the "OG Cult". We have been around for a very long time, and I can't speak for all, but most of us went through the days of Slayer Logi permascan AR 514 with our shoulders high, and our profiles low, proud to be some of the few who actually ran scouts since day 1. These are the players who know the maps, understand the mechanics, and have become powerful while their suit was in a bad place. The heavy and the scout each attract their own types of players, however, the ones that are more liable to complain are the newer players, the ones that don't understand the mechanics or how they work, and by coincidence, these player's demographic is comprised mainly of heavies. These new players seem to have some ingrained sense of entitltement to fair 1v1 fights where even a militia heavy straight from the academy could slaughter even the game's toughest scouts. The problem is, the inherent play style that the scout utilizes requires trickery, a basic knowledge of human psychology, and an deep in depth knowledge of in-game mechanics. Most players find this unfair, and believe that by donning the all-mighty sentinel suit that they should somehow become invulnerable, and that things such as the use of tactics or even their personal gun game are useless in comparison to the incredible advantages given to them by donning said sentinel suit. When they are killed by something that is smaller and faster than them, it seems like a spit in the face, and indeed, for many, it is. They know that their skill and knowledge of game mechanics was less than that of their opponents, yet refuse to admit it. Instead, they become bitter and frustrated as they know that their gear is inherently stronger, yet they cannot beat their opponents. To this, I have to say--Suck it the ** up. Seriously. 6/10 of the scouts complaining have been scouts throughout the dark ages, where the supremacy of fine rifles and brick tanked logis with perma-scans reigned supreme, and many of us even thrived (to whatever extent we were allowed). You HMG sentinels have been given superior weaponry and suits, yet refuse to adapt to a battlefield in which tactical decisions and gun-game matter. Despite saying this, however-- Are scouts OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? Yes, for the most part. Some may need buffs post Charlie, others, nerfs. And we do openly admit it. We understand the game mechanics and the reasons why certain scouts coughCaldaricough are OP. --BUT!-- Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. However, the lack of acknowledgement of the issues making the sentinel OP as well as the condescending, brash, rude, degenerate, and occasionally illiterate ways that the Sentinel community represent themselves makes the glaring balance problems all the more annoying for many of us long-timers. TL;DR-- The reason Sentinels complain so much about scouts is because they are generally newer players, and the very way the sentinel role works causes them to resent scouts in particular. An excellent example of the inherent elitism and general disdain of anything that can't be killed in two SG blasts that infests the majority of scout players. SPOILER ALERT! Heavies can have decent gungame too. I'd also like to note that your little speech, specifically Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. fails to acknowledge the proto HMG range nerf and the HMG heat increase, which promotes a more skill based point defense playstyle. You also did not note the harsh reduction to CPU and PG which combined with the heavy weapon fitting bonus that a Sentinel will get discourages light weapon Sentinels. Posts like this that are absolutely dripping with bias are the main reason that I find it hard to take scouts seriously. P.S. I've been a heavy since when it was the only suit the Amarr had... Do you know how little the heat increase is? It won't even be noticeable; even more wood to the fire- Burst HMG gets RoF increase. To top it all off, the HMG will have the equivalent range of the Plasma Rifle. That's 40m of effective range! Also: Gav isn't one of those "self-entitled" elitists who thinks scouts should shotgun heavies in 2 shots (which btw happens once in a blue moon and many heavies take at least** 3 Shotgun shots). True, heavies can have decent gun game, but as Gav mentioned, many don't. Seriously; give some respect. Sometimes, when I close my eyes, I can't see anything. "One does not simply" run like a Raptor such as an mk.0.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 279	Posted - 2014.08.11 18:16:00 - [69] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: i run heavy as my second role it is clearly OP. the scout suit is clearly OP. there are noobs in heavy suits and noobs running scout suits witch is not a problem. its when you put a vet in one of these OP suits is when things go bad. but i feel that a scout suit being used by someone with good map knowledge and gun game makes it the most OP combo in the game besides a skilled ADS. sorry are you folks even listening to yourselves? so heavies and scouts are both op? are you including basic suits in this? if you are then i'll point out that, basic suits are basic and don't cost as much sp to obtain or use. therefore they should be weaker.. now on to the scouts vs heavies bit.. if all scouts are op and all heavies are op. what you are actually saying is that all assault suits are up. logic you see if you have 3 types and of the three two of them are too strong then the only conclusion is: that the third option is too weak and the first two are just fine. as for the vets in an op suit bit, ok so what suit would a vet be easy to kill in then? why should a vet be easy to kill? in this particular thread the argument is that all skilled players should be nerfed because they are good at dust, you are in fact asking for a handicap level.
Newbs With Bewbs xx The Fairies xx 6	Posted - 2014.08.11 18:47:00 - [70] - Quote Dust is like Rugby in school. The quick ones play on wings scoring the tries (Scouts) The average play abit of both along the front line (Assaults, Logis) The fat kids are put in the middle to make them feel involved. (Heavies) Heavies were put in Dust to make the lesser feel involved. I am LHughes. Did you like your handjob?

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1939	Posted - 2014.08.11 19:02:00 - [71] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Seriously; give some respect. He, you and every other pubbie in this game can get my respect by earning it. I don't give out freebies. No coherency, buncha anecdotal claims and no freaking evidence that amounts to buckets of tears. Win = Me Guess how many of you pubbies have actually earned my respect? Here's a hint. None of them post on the DUST forums.
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1737	Posted - 2014.08.11 19:04:00 - [72] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The real reason for this is the demographics--In general, people who play as heavy (not all, but most nowadays) are new players, who have a much lesser grasp of the in game mechanics or map features, or the way that CQC works, etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum we have scouts--most of the scouts who are complaining about ridiculous heavy spam are among what I lovingly call the "OG Cult". We have been around for a very long time, and I can't speak for all, but most of us went through the days of Slayer Logi permascan AR 514 with our shoulders high, and our profiles low, proud to be some of the few who actually ran scouts since day 1. These are the players who know the maps, understand the mechanics, and have become powerful while their suit was in a bad place. The heavy and the scout each attract their own types of players, however, the ones that are more liable to complain are the newer players, the ones that don't understand the mechanics or how they work, and by coincidence, these player's demographic is comprised mainly of heavies. These new players seem to have some ingrained sense of entitltement to fair 1v1 fights where even a militia heavy straight from the academy could slaughter even the game's toughest scouts. The problem is, the inherent play style that the scout utilizes requires trickery, a basic knowledge of human psychology, and an deep in depth knowledge of in-game mechanics. Most players find this unfair, and believe that by donning the all-mighty sentinel suit that they should somehow become invulnerable, and that things such as the use of tactics or even their personal gun game are useless in comparison to the incredible advantages given to them by donning said sentinel suit. When they are killed by something that is smaller and faster than them, it seems like a spit in the face, and indeed, for many, it is. They know that their skill and knowledge of game mechanics was less than that of their opponents, yet refuse to admit it. Instead, they become bitter and frustrated as they know that their gear is inherently stronger, yet they cannot beat their opponents. To this, I have to say--Suck it the ** up. Seriously. 6/10 of the scouts complaining have been scouts throughout the dark ages, where the supremacy of fine rifles and brick tanked logis with perma-scans reigned supreme, and many of us even thrived (to whatever extent we were allowed). You HMG sentinels have been given superior weaponry and suits, yet refuse to adapt to a battlefield in which tactical decisions and gun-game matter. Despite saying this, however-- Are scouts OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? Yes, for the most part. Some may need buffs post Charlie, others, nerfs. And we do openly admit it. We understand the game mechanics and the reasons why certain scouts coughCaldaricough are OP. --BUT!-- Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. However, the lack of acknowledgement of the issues making the sentinel OP as well as the condescending, brash, rude, degenerate, and occasionally illiterate ways that the Sentinel community represent themselves makes the glaring balance problems all the more annoying for many of us long-timers. TL;DR-- The reason Sentinels complain so much about scouts is because they are generally newer players, and the very way the sentinel role works causes them to resent scouts in particular. An excellent example of the inherent elitism and general disdain of anything that can't be killed in two SG blasts that infests the majority of scout players. SPOILER ALERT! Heavies can have decent gungame too. I'd also like to note that your little speech, specifically Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. fails to acknowledge the proto HMG range nerf and the HMG heat increase, which promotes a more skill based point defense playstyle. You also did not note the harsh reduction to CPU and PG which combined with the heavy weapon fitting bonus that a Sentinel will get discourages light weapon Sentinels. Posts like this that are absolutely dripping with bias are the main reason that I find it hard to take scouts seriously. P.S. I've been a heavy since when it was the only suit the Amarr had... Do you know how little the heat increase is? It won't even be noticeable; even more wood to the fire- Burst HMG gets RoF increase. To top it all off, the HMG will have the equivalent range of the Plasma Rifle. That's 40m of effective range! Also: Gav isn't one of those "self-entitled" elitists who thinks scouts should shotgun heavies in 2 shots (which btw happens once in a blue moon and many heavies take at least** 3 Shotgun shots). True, heavies can have decent gun game, but as Gav mentioned, many don't. Seriously; give some respect. The heatup is significant enough to lower the firing time a minimum 1 sec on all tiers; burst hmg gets 3 bursts before over heating so if they do not stay on target they will over heat and die; you fail to address the fact that at 40m all of the AR's bullets are going to go straight into the head of the heavy while MAYBE a quarter of the HMG's bullets will hit IF he is ADSing AND crouched. I have to see a post of Gav's that isn't dripping with pro scout anti heavy bias Seems you too have the mentality that heavies are automatically ****** players... I'll give respect when I get it right now all I see are scouts trying to downplay the heavy's RIGHT to be on the battle field... Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando IV, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 280	Posted - 2014.08.11 19:09:00 - [73] - Quote Newbs With Bewbs wrote: Dust is like Rugby in school. The quick ones play on wings scoring the tries (Scouts) The average play abit of both along the front line (Assaults, Logis) The fat kids are put in the middle to make them feel involved. (Heavies) Heavies were put in Dust to make the lesser feel involved. heavies were nerfed to make the stupid folk feel adequate.
Copharus Arkana Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2014.08.11 19:29:00 - [74] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Bormir1r wrote: Seriously; give some respect. He, you and every other pubbie in this game can get my respect by earning it. I don't give out freebies. No coherency, buncha anecdotal claims and no freaking evidence that amounts to buckets of tears. Win = Me Guess how many of you pubbies have actually earned my respect? Here's a hint. None of them post on the DUST forums. The lesser shouldn't even be allowed to get involved. Heavy suits should be removed from the game. Only scrubs use heavys. They don't even help the team, they just pad there kdr of lies!
Copharus Arkana Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2014.08.11 19:32:00 - [75] - Quote Wait... I clicked quote on post 71, why did it quote post72?
MythTanker Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 211	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:05:00 - [76] - Quote Copharus Arkana wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Bormir1r wrote: Seriously; give some respect. He, you and every other pubbie in this game can get my respect by earning it. I don't give out freebies. No coherency, buncha anecdotal claims and no freaking evidence that amounts to buckets of tears. Win = Me Guess how many of you pubbies have actually earned my respect? Here's a hint. None of them post on the DUST forums. The lesser shouldn't even be allowed to get involved. Heavy suits should be removed from the game. Only scrubs use heavys. They don't even help the team, they just pad there kdr of lies! Now show me on the doll with the crayon. Where did the heavy touch you? The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his -George S. Patton
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2003	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:18:00 - [77] - Quote In response to all the illiterate drivel being posted in attempt to flame me and those who are trying to support me--later today, if I have time, I will run a MLT HMG Minnie Heavy, and report my scores, good or bad, to the community. I will run in 3 different scenarios-- 1. Solo 2. Using an LAV and the infamous "Clown Car" tactic 3. Grouping up with a Logi and Cal scout for scans and reps I will also mention the number of players in starter corps, high tier corps, and mid tier corps on each side. I will then attempt to run a MLT Minnie scout, and the community can choose my fitting, and I will do the best I can with it, and report my scores in the same manner. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1941	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:25:00 - [78] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: In response to all the illiterate drivel being posted in attempt to flame me and those who are trying to support me--later today, if I have time, I will run a MLT HMG Minnie Heavy, and report my scores, good or bad, to the community. I will run in 3 different scenarios-- 1. Solo 2. Using an LAV and the infamous "Clown Car" tactic 3. Grouping up with a Logi and Cal scout for scans and reps I will also mention the number of players in starter corps, high tier corps, and mid tier corps on each side. I will then attempt to run a MLT Minnie scout, and the community can choose my fitting, and I will do the best I can with it, and report my scores in the same manner. Wait. Youre going to do an actual REPORT? WITH LEGWORK??? Record the matches and post to YouTube to show your evidence.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2003	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:26:00 - [79] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: In response to all the illiterate drivel being posted in attempt to flame me and those who are trying to support me--later today, if I have time, I will run a MLT HMG Minnie Heavy, and report my scores, good or bad, to the community. I will run in 3 different scenarios-- 1. Solo 2. Using an LAV and the infamous "Clown Car" tactic 3. Grouping up with a Logi and Cal scout for scans and reps I will also mention the number of players in starter corps, high tier corps, and mid tier corps on each side. I will then attempt to run a MLT Minnie scout, and the community can choose my fitting, and I will do the best I can with it, and report my scores in the same manner. Wait. Youre going to do an actual REPORT? WITH LEGWORK??? Record the matches and post to YouTube to show your evidence. I would, but unfortunately I have no recording material If someone wants to tag along to record it, then feel free to do so Id like to settle this once and for all. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1944	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:33:00 - [80] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: In response to all the illiterate drivel being posted in attempt to flame me and those who are trying to support me--later today, if I have time, I will run a MLT HMG Minnie Heavy, and report my scores, good or bad, to the community. I will run in 3 different scenarios-- 1. Solo 2. Using an LAV and the infamous "Clown Car" tactic 3. Grouping up with a Logi and Cal scout for scans and reps I will also mention the number of players in starter corps, high tier corps, and mid tier corps on each side. I will then attempt to run a MLT Minnie scout, and the community can choose my fitting, and I will do the best I can with it, and report my scores in the same manner. Wait. Youre going to do an actual REPORT? WITH LEGWORK??? Record the matches and post to YouTube to show your evidence. I would, but unfortunately I have no recording material If someone wants to tag along to record it, then feel free to do so Id like to settle this once and for all. You need to do at least 5-10 pubs for a good demographic with each setup. That way you can enjoy the fun of massacreing idiot pubstars who have never heard of teamwork and living the dream of getting your nuts ripped off by organized teams cuz yer fat and slow. By the way.. the logi + scout combo means teamwork is OP. I have said it before. Heavies shine like diamonds when you dont try to be a solo idiot pubstar. They are a squad support and hard defense class. Soloing sucks. Especially soloing with my average ping of 300-400. I love living in the middle of nowhere.

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2004	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:37:00 - [81] - Quote Just for the reference, I run my Heavy solely to "rip the nuts" off of people who I kill too many times with my scout and then they pull out their Viziams and armor tank. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1944	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:43:00 - [82] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Just for the reference, I run my Heavy solely to "rip the nuts" off of people who I kill too many times with my scout and then they pull out their Viziams and armor tank. Im 100% heavy spec. I can tell ya even at proto you wont like solo pubstaring. I have to because I exist in inconvenient times for normal goons. Heavy suits suck ass unsupported unless you get really lucky and are surrounded by newberries and idiots.running advanced or proto heavy isnt a profitable endeavor. I usually break even. To make a profit you really do have to stick to STD grade gear,
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2004	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:45:00 - [83] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Just for the reference, I run my Heavy solely to "rip the nuts" off of people who I kill too many times with my scout and then they pull out their Viziams and armor tank. Im 100% heavy spec. I can tell ya even at proto you wont like solo pubstaring. I have to because I exist in inconvenient times for normal goons. Heavy suits suck ass unsupported unless you get really lucky and are surrounded by newberries and idiots.running advanced or proto heavy isnt a profitable endeavor. I usually break even. ....I find them very easy to solo in personally, and even easier to use with a group. But you try running a speed tanked minmitar scout, and tell me how easy it is "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1944	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:46:00 - [84] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Just for the reference, I run my Heavy solely to "rip the nuts" off of people who I kill too many times with my scout and then they pull out their Viziams and armor tank. Im 100% heavy spec. I can tell ya even at proto you wont like solo pubstaring. I have to because I exist in inconvenient times for normal goons. Heavy suits suck ass unsupported unless you get really lucky and are surrounded by newberries and idiots.running advanced or proto heavy isnt a profitable endeavor. I usually break even. ....I find them very easy to solo in personally, and even easier to use with a group. But you try running a speed tanked minmitar scout, and tell me how easy it is Easy to solo in from match start to end without swapping suits?
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2004	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:47:00 - [85] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Just for the reference, I run my Heavy solely to "rip the nuts" off of people who I kill too many times with my scout and then they pull out their Viziams and armor tank. Im 100% heavy spec. I can tell ya even at proto you wont like solo pubstaring. I have to because I exist in inconvenient times for normal goons. Heavy suits suck ass unsupported unless you get really lucky and are surrounded by newberries and idiots.running advanced or proto heavy isnt a profitable endeavor. I usually break even. ....I find them very easy to solo in personally, and even easier to use with a group. But you try running a speed tanked minmitar scout, and tell me how easy it is Easy to solo in from match start to end without swapping suits? Yes. Though I do occasionally need to find a supply depot to drop links and ammo or proxies if theres a really obnoxious tanker "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 153	Posted - 2014.08.11 20:53:00 - [86] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343 This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a heavy suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP. 1. Even though that much health is possible, I rarely ever see this in a match other than PC, if the enemy is running gal scouts. 2. I suggested, along with other people, to make plating % based, instead of a fixed number of health. Why? With a few adjustments to base suit health, assault, logis, and heavies can retain their current health while having the scouts reduced. Also, I find it odd that the same plating can be applied to a scout and a heavy, and have the same health bonus. In size, that's like taking an XXXL shirt and putting it onto a measly little scout. I just find it... strange... My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1944	Posted - 2014.08.11 21:22:00 - [87] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Yes. Though I do occasionally need to find a supply depot to drop links and ammo or proxies if theres a really obnoxious tanker I don't buy it. There isn't a sentinel player who won't call BS on you here. You Make a lot of wild claims andapparently can godroll everyone in a militia heavy solo. Unless a third party verifies, I consider any findings you present as suspect and anecdotal. Further the only way to get fatty ez mode is to stalk outlier solo pubstars who are being idiots. Attacking a hardened and well defended position or trying to hold against attacking squads (the sentinel's job) is not easy mode. Being a lolrolling pubtard who only engages assured kills does not demonstrate heavy opness. I will grant a few points, however. 1: there are too many fatties on the field at any given time. 2: heavies are hard to kill on their terms (in close and brawling) 3: Heavy Machineguns do not currently overheat fast enough for gun game to matter. 4: Heavy murdertaxi is stupid. I prefer to run you over on my way to Delta. Cant be bothered interrupting winning for the chance to waste ammo im gonna need in thirty seconds. However, scoutboy, its not the heavies who are going to be your bane shortly. That will be the assault buff. But here is one thing to consider: DUST is not balanced around the mmo holy trinity of tank/healer/dps. Heavies are so slow and easy to hit that giving them heavy weapons that are less effective than light weapons makes them utterly useless. This has happened before. If it happens again say hello to rifle, shotgun and mass driver sentinels once again. And no i am not referring to commandos. Your crying that heavies kill too fast can be turned right around and applied to the cloak/shotgun combo which can ohk any suit but a heavy. Heavies are not low dps, high HP. That formula makes them nothing but free kills.
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1738	Posted - 2014.08.11 21:43:00 - [88] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Yes. Though I do occasionally need to find a supply depot to drop links and ammo or proxies if theres a really obnoxious tanker I don't buy it. There isn't a sentinel player who won't call BS on you here. You Make a lot of wild claims andapparently can godroll everyone in a militia heavy solo. Unless a third party verifies, I consider any findings you present as suspect and anecdotal. Further the only way to get fatty ez mode is to stalk outlier solo pubstars who are being idiots. Attacking a hardened and well defended position or trying to hold against attacking squads (the sentinel's job) is not easy mode. Being a lolrolling pubtard who only engages assured kills does not demonstrate heavy opness. I will grant a few points, however. 1: there are too many fatties on the field at any given time. 2: heavies are hard to kill on their terms (in close and brawling) 3: Heavy Machineguns do not currently overheat fast enough for gun game to matter. 4: Heavy murdertaxi is stupid. I prefer to run you over on my way to Delta. Cant be bothered interrupting winning for the chance to waste ammo im gonna need in thirty seconds. However, scoutboy, its not the heavies who are going to be your bane shortly. That will be the assault buff. But here is one thing to consider: DUST is not balanced around the mmo holy trinity of tank/healer/dps. Heavies are so slow and easy to hit that giving them heavy weapons that are less effective than light weapons makes them utterly useless. This has happened before. If it happens again say hello to rifle, shotgun and mass driver sentinels once again. And no i am not referring to commandos. Your crying that heavies kill too fast can be turned right around and applied to the cloak/shotgun combo which can ohk any suit but a heavy. Heavies are not low dps, high HP. That formula makes them nothing but free kills. Don't worry with the way this elitist thinks he will be on the forums post charlie crying about heavies AND assaults... Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando IV, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1944	Posted - 2014.08.11 21:55:00 - [89] - Quote Im not worried. I just figure if I want to bait another ban for trolling or generally being an ass I want it to be SPECTACULAR. This tgread doesn't qualify. So I will be terrible by being terribly constructive.
OZAROW Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1479	Posted - 2014.08.11 22:16:00 - [90] - Quote Newbs With Bewbs wrote: Dust is like Rugby in school. The quick ones play on wings scoring the tries (Scouts) The average play abit of both along the front line (Assaults, Logis) The fat kids are put in the middle to make them feel involved. (Heavies) Heavies were put in Dust to make the lesser feel involved. Perfect, and it basically explain s the truth, med frames are for average players, scouts for the more skilled, and fatsuits for the point and shoot- obviously skilled players can play anywhere and weaker players can slam 600 armor on a scout to make life easiers but thats why ccp made the customization of dust the way they did so horrible players could FTOM ALL OVER THE PLACE AND CCP COULD MAKE MONEY LOL. But I don't recall horrible players using scouts from 1.3 - 1.7 lol more like brick a logi with scanners and rep hives lol and the samepeople mad at scouts are the exact same 360` spinning jerks this ccommunity is full of skirts! SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2007	Posted - 2014.08.11 22:27:00 - [91] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Yes. Though I do occasionally need to find a supply depot to drop links and ammo or proxies if theres a really obnoxious tanker I don't buy it. There isn't a sentinel player who won't call BS on you here. You Make a lot of wild claims andapparently can godroll everyone in a militia heavy solo. Unless a third party verifies, I consider any findings you present as suspect and anecdotal. Further the only way to get fatty ez mode is to stalk outlier solo pubstars who are being idiots. Attacking a hardened and well defended position or trying to hold against attacking squads (the sentinel's job) is not easy mode. Being a lolrolling pubtard who only engages assured kills does not demonstrate heavy opness. I will grant a few points, however. 1: there are too many fatties on the field at any given time. 2: heavies are hard to kill on their terms (in close and brawling) 3: Heavy Machineguns do not currently overheat fast enough for gun game to matter. 4: Heavy murdertaxi is stupid. I prefer to run you over on my way to Delta. Cant be bothered interrupting winning for the chance to waste ammo im gonna need in thirty seconds. However, scoutboy, its not the heavies who are going to be your bane shortly. That will be the assault buff. But here is one thing to consider: DUST is not balanced around the mmo holy trinity of tank/healer/dps. Heavies are so slow and easy to hit that giving them heavy weapons that are less effective than light weapons makes them utterly useless. This has happened before. If it happens again say hello to rifle, shotgun and mass driver sentinels once again. And no i am not referring to commandos. Your crying that heavies kill too fast can be turned right around and applied to the cloak/shotgun combo which can ohk any suit but a heavy. Heavies are not low dps, high HP. That formula makes them nothing but free kills. Best people I can think of to verify are Borm1rir and Jaceon probably "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Kam Elto KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 420	Posted - 2014.08.11 23:56:00 - [92] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Kam Elto wrote: Give it a rest OP. You're constant whining about heavies is becoming tiresome. Maybe, just maybe the problem is that you're just not a good scout. Your* Secondly, please read what I wrote. *You're. It is a contraction for YOU ARE. Your is a possessive pronoun. For example, I will not read any more of YOUR whiny posts.
MythTanker Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 211	Posted - 2014.08.12 00:16:00 - [93] - Quote Kam Elto wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Kam Elto wrote: Give it a rest OP. You're constant whining about heavies is becoming tiresome. Maybe, just maybe the problem is that you're just not a good scout. Your* Secondly, please read what I wrote. *You're. It is a contraction for YOU ARE. Your is a possessive pronoun. For example, I will not read any more of YOUR whiny posts. lol i could've sworn he called some of our posts "illiterate" You are starting to bring entertainment value to the forums Gav. The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his -George S. Patton
Medical Crash Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 364	Posted - 2014.08.12 02:23:00 - [94] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The real reason for this is the demographics--In general, people who play as heavy (not all, but most nowadays) are new players, who have a much lesser grasp of the in game mechanics or map features, or the way that CQC works, etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum we have scouts--most of the scouts who are complaining about ridiculous heavy spam are among what I lovingly call the "OG Cult". We have been around for a very long time, and I can't speak for all, but most of us went through the days of Slayer Logi permascan AR 514 with our shoulders high, and our profiles low, proud to be some of the few who actually ran scouts since day 1. These are the players who know the maps, understand the mechanics, and have become powerful while their suit was in a bad place. The heavy and the scout each attract their own types of players, however, the ones that are more liable to complain are the newer players, the ones that don't understand the mechanics or how they work, and by coincidence, these player's demographic is comprised mainly of heavies. These new players seem to have some ingrained sense of entitltement to fair 1v1 fights where even a militia heavy straight from the academy could slaughter even the game's toughest scouts. The problem is, the inherent play style that the scout utilizes requires trickery, a basic knowledge of human psychology, and an deep in depth knowledge of in-game mechanics. Most players find this unfair, and believe that by donning the all-mighty sentinel suit that they should somehow become invulnerable, and that things such as the use of tactics or even their personal gun game are useless in comparison to the incredible advantages given to them by donning said sentinel suit. When they are killed by something that is smaller and faster than them, it seems like a spit in the face, and indeed, for many, it is. They know that their skill and knowledge of game mechanics was less than that of their opponents, yet refuse to admit it. Instead, they become bitter and frustrated as they know that their gear is inherently stronger, yet they cannot beat their opponents. To this, I have to say--Suck it the **** up. Seriously. 6/10 of the scouts complaining have been scouts throughout the dark ages, where the supremacy of fine rifles and brick tanked logis with perma-scans reigned supreme, and many of us even thrived (to whatever extent we were allowed). You HMG sentinels have been given superior weaponry and suits, yet refuse to adapt to a battlefield in which tactical decisions and gun-game matter. Despite saying this, however-- Are scouts OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? Yes, for the most part. Some may need buffs post Charlie, others, nerfs. And we do openly admit it. We understand the game mechanics and the reasons why certain scouts coughCaldaricough are OP. --BUT!-- Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. However, the lack of acknowledgement of the issues making the sentinel OP as well as the condescending, brash, rude, degenerate, and occasionally illiterate ways that the Sentinel community represent themselves makes the glaring balance problems all the more annoying for many of us long-timers. TL;DR-- The reason Sentinels complain so much about scouts is because they are generally newer players, and the very way the sentinel role works causes them to resent scouts in particular. TL;DR, I don't care about either if CCP would fix Dusts aimiing for DS3, it's too slow. My sound tactics with a low db suit would work well if aiming was fixed.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2345	Posted - 2014.08.12 02:31:00 - [95] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: In response to all the illiterate drivel being posted in attempt to flame me and those who are trying to support me--later today, if I have time, I will run a MLT HMG Minnie Heavy, and report my scores, good or bad, to the community. I will run in 3 different scenarios-- 1. Solo 2. Using an LAV and the infamous "Clown Car" tactic 3. Grouping up with a Logi and Cal scout for scans and reps I will also mention the number of players in starter corps, high tier corps, and mid tier corps on each side. I will then attempt to run a MLT Minnie scout, and the community can choose my fitting, and I will do the best I can with it, and report my scores in the same manner. Wait. Youre going to do an actual REPORT? WITH LEGWORK??? Record the matches and post to YouTube to show your evidence. I would, but unfortunately I have no recording material If someone wants to tag along to record it, then feel free to do so Id like to settle this once and for all. You need to do at least 5-10 pubs for a good demographic with each setup. That way you can enjoy the fun of massacreing idiot pubstars who have never heard of teamwork and living the dream of getting your nuts ripped off by organized teams cuz yer fat and slow. By the way.. the logi + scout combo means teamwork is OP. I have said it before. Heavies shine like diamonds when you dont try to be a solo idiot pubstar. They are a squad support and hard defense class. Soloing sucks. Especially soloing with my average ping of 300-400.m I love living in the middle of nowhere. We all get auto pinged at 200. your probably sitting on the average ping everyone plays at. Pub fittings are completely different from PC fittings. When a PC corp comes with a squad in PC fitting... it's usually completely based on their function and role in the group... CCompletely based around the central goal of team work. Pubstar fittings are Damage intensive with very little tank modules... Because the entire group is racing to get kills... You die very little because everything dies so quick... Your hungry for a good fight and kill all match. Solo fittings are survival based... It's based on surviving and living... Not team work, damage or even winning. Dust's team work is that if, two people get together and work intelligently together to win... Your OP... doesn't really matter what you are wearing. The average DUST player is just really confused and un educated about the game they are playing. They are playing completely on Half truths and 3rd party information they heard about in squad chat. CCP has created this environment themselves, not the players.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2012	Posted - 2014.08.12 03:58:00 - [96] - Quote Kam Elto wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Kam Elto wrote: Give it a rest OP. You're constant whining about heavies is becoming tiresome. Maybe, just maybe the problem is that you're just not a good scout. Your* Secondly, please read what I wrote. *You're. It is a contraction for YOU ARE. Your is a possessive pronoun. For example, I will not read any more of YOUR whiny posts. Whining is a noun, idiot. Your grammar sucks, and you're an idiot. Thank you for confirming that and embarrassing yourself. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2012	Posted - 2014.08.12 04:01:00 - [97] - Quote MythTanker wrote: Kam Elto wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Kam Elto wrote: Give it a rest OP. You're constant whining about heavies is becoming tiresome. Maybe, just maybe the problem is that you're just not a good scout. Your* Secondly, please read what I wrote. *You're. It is a contraction for YOU ARE. Your is a possessive pronoun. For example, I will not read any more of YOUR whiny posts. lol i could've sworn he called some of our posts "illiterate" You are starting to bring entertainment value to the forums Gav. Come on people, you're just embarrassing yourselves.... Whining is a noun in this instance, not a verb. Therefore "your". Sorry, but you're both wrong. And are further proving my point about illiteracy... My advice: Stop while you're ahead. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3917	Posted - 2014.08.12 04:10:00 - [98] - Quote Can confirm that Gav is no longer illiterate. Hasn't been for weeks. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2013	Posted - 2014.08.12 04:21:00 - [99] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Can confirm that Gav is no longer illiterate. Hasn't been for weeks. Yet another famous "half compliment" "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Asha Starwind 903	Posted - 2014.08.12 05:05:00 - [100] - Quote Kam Elto wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Kam Elto wrote: Give it a rest OP. You're constant whining about heavies is becoming tiresome. Maybe, just maybe the problem is that you're just not a good scout. Your* Secondly, please read what I wrote. You're. It is a contraction for YOU ARE. Your is a possessive pronoun. For example, I will not read any more of YOUR whiny posts. You and the idiot who liked your post fail again. Let's replace the contraction with 'YOU ARE'. "YOU ARE constant whining about..." -- yeah, a whole lot of sense that makes. Corrections to your statement would be Kam Elto wrote:* You're constantly whining about heavies is becoming tiresome. Maybe, just maybe the problem is that you're just not a good scout. or as Gav correctly pointed out, use YOUR instead of YOU ARE out since the word 'constant' is used as an adjective to the gerund 'whining' Kam Elto wrote: Your constant whining about heavies is becoming tiresome. Maybe, just maybe the problem is that you're just not a good scout. Be less stupid if you are going to try and correct someone because figuratively that exchange went: Kam: 2+1=4 Gav: It's 3 not 2 Kam: You're dumb because 1+1=2 [center][/center]

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2016	Posted - 2014.08.12 11:35:00 - [101] - Quote Seems about right ^^ "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Lanius Pulvis Evzones 351	Posted - 2014.08.12 12:16:00 - [102] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The real reason for this is the demographics--In general, people who play as heavy (not all, but most nowadays) are new players, who have a much lesser grasp of the in game mechanics or map features, or the way that CQC works, etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum we have scouts--most of the scouts who are complaining about ridiculous heavy spam are among what I lovingly call the "OG Cult". We have been around for a very long time, and I can't speak for all, but most of us went through the days of Slayer Logi permascan AR 514 with our shoulders high, and our profiles low, proud to be some of the few who actually ran scouts since day 1. These are the players who know the maps, understand the mechanics, and have become powerful while their suit was in a bad place. The heavy and the scout each attract their own types of players, however, the ones that are more liable to complain are the newer players, the ones that don't understand the mechanics or how they work, and by coincidence, these player's demographic is comprised mainly of heavies. These new players seem to have some ingrained sense of entitltement to fair 1v1 fights where even a militia heavy straight from the academy could slaughter even the game's toughest scouts. The problem is, the inherent play style that the scout utilizes requires trickery, a basic knowledge of human psychology, and an deep in depth knowledge of in-game mechanics. Most players find this unfair, and believe that by donning the all-mighty sentinel suit that they should somehow become invulnerable, and that things such as the use of tactics or even their personal gun game are useless in comparison to the incredible advantages given to them by donning said sentinel suit. When they are killed by something that is smaller and faster than them, it seems like a spit in the face, and indeed, for many, it is. They know that their skill and knowledge of game mechanics was less than that of their opponents, yet refuse to admit it. Instead, they become bitter and frustrated as they know that their gear is inherently stronger, yet they cannot beat their opponents. To this, I have to say--Suck it the **** up. Seriously. 6/10 of the scouts complaining have been scouts throughout the dark ages, where the supremacy of fine rifles and brick tanked logis with perma-scans reigned supreme, and many of us even thrived (to whatever extent we were allowed). You HMG sentinels have been given superior weaponry and suits, yet refuse to adapt to a battlefield in which tactical decisions and gun-game matter. Despite saying this, however-- Are scouts OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? Yes, for the most part. Some may need buffs post Charlie, others, nerfs. And we do openly admit it. We understand the game mechanics and the reasons why certain scouts coughCaldaricough are OP. --BUT!-- Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto. However, the lack of acknowledgement of the issues making the sentinel OP as well as the condescending, brash, rude, degenerate, and occasionally illiterate ways that the Sentinel community represent themselves makes the glaring balance problems all the more annoying for many of us long-timers. TL;DR-- The reason Sentinels complain so much about scouts is because they are generally newer players, and the very way the sentinel role works causes them to resent scouts in particular. Oh good, so you've done a demographics survey of the Dust community by role. So, where can we view this data? Interesting that you claim there isn't an excessive amount of Heavy hate. Oh and BTW the HMG is getting nerfed as well as the suits, largely thanks to community feedback. I have great respect for scouts who have played that role when it was tough, just as I do for longtime Heavies, but they're both currently FOTM. And I see a lot of "Vets" who've only been Heavy since 1.8 and newbs who spec into scout. Basically I think you're entire thread is baseless. Damn shame too, because normally you have good points. Not new, just new to you.
Kam Elto KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 426	Posted - 2014.08.12 15:37:00 - [103] - Quote Thank you Miss Grammar. I stand corrected. But it does not change the fact that Prince Guano is a whiner.


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