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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1947
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Posted - 2014.08.09 21:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
The real reason for this is the demographics--In general, people who play as heavy (not all, but most nowadays) are new players, who have a much lesser grasp of the in game mechanics or map features, or the way that CQC works, etc.
On the opposite end of the spectrum we have scouts--most of the scouts who are complaining about ridiculous heavy spam are among what I lovingly call the "OG Cult". We have been around for a very long time, and I can't speak for all, but most of us went through the days of Slayer Logi permascan AR 514 with our shoulders high, and our profiles low, proud to be some of the few who actually ran scouts since day 1. These are the players who know the maps, understand the mechanics, and have become powerful while their suit was in a bad place.
The heavy and the scout each attract their own types of players, however, the ones that are more liable to complain are the newer players, the ones that don't understand the mechanics or how they work, and by coincidence, these player's demographic is comprised mainly of heavies.
These new players seem to have some ingrained sense of entitltement to fair 1v1 fights where even a militia heavy straight from the academy could slaughter even the game's toughest scouts. The problem is, the inherent play style that the scout utilizes requires trickery, a basic knowledge of human psychology, and an deep in depth knowledge of in-game mechanics.
Most players find this unfair, and believe that by donning the all-mighty sentinel suit that they should somehow become invulnerable, and that things such as the use of tactics or even their personal gun game are useless in comparison to the incredible advantages given to them by donning said sentinel suit.
When they are killed by something that is smaller and faster than them, it seems like a spit in the face, and indeed, for many, it is. They know that their skill and knowledge of game mechanics was less than that of their opponents, yet refuse to admit it. Instead, they become bitter and frustrated as they know that their gear is inherently stronger, yet they cannot beat their opponents.
To this, I have to say--Suck it the **** up. Seriously. 6/10 of the scouts complaining have been scouts throughout the dark ages, where the supremacy of fine rifles and brick tanked logis with perma-scans reigned supreme, and many of us even thrived (to whatever extent we were allowed).
You HMG sentinels have been given superior weaponry and suits, yet refuse to adapt to a battlefield in which tactical decisions and gun-game matter.
Despite saying this, however--
Are scouts OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? Yes, for the most part. Some may need buffs post Charlie, others, nerfs.
And we do openly admit it. We understand the game mechanics and the reasons why certain scouts coughCaldaricough are OP.
--BUT!--
Are Sentinels OP? Yes. Will Charlie fix that? No, all it will do is make it so that core skills will need to be close to maxed or maxed to fit full proto.
However, the lack of acknowledgement of the issues making the sentinel OP as well as the condescending, brash, rude, degenerate, and occasionally illiterate ways that the Sentinel community represent themselves makes the glaring balance problems all the more annoying for many of us long-timers.
TL;DR-- The reason Sentinels complain so much about scouts is because they are generally newer players, and the very way the sentinel role works causes them to resent scouts in particular.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1947
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Posted - 2014.08.09 21:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
----Reserved----
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1959
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Posted - 2014.08.10 00:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Games Haven wrote:Scouts are almost as whiny as tankers.
Did you read a thing i said.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1960
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Posted - 2014.08.10 01:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
retracted
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1966
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Posted - 2014.08.10 02:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
Im an illiterate imbecile incapable of forming a coherent thought or argument, and would, ironically, like my opinion to be considered a valid one.
Did you read a thing I wrote.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1966
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Posted - 2014.08.10 02:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
Im an illiterate imbecile incapable of forming a coherent thought or argument, and would, ironically, like my opinion to be considered a valid one.
Did you read a thing I wrote. Do you even play Dust 514, or "Illusionary Scoutworld" Define how the Sentinel is OP to scouts. Define how newcomers are the only ones playing heavies. You literally have NO PROOF for anything you stated.
READ WHAT I WROTE!!
You have no proof for saying I stated any of the above, despite how true certain of those statements may be.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1983
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Posted - 2014.08.10 17:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
RendonaSix wrote:J0hlss0n wrote:RendonaSix wrote:If you ask me, I think a lot of heavies and scouts are talking pure sht. Best thing said in this thread. Thanks, in all honesty, there was never and has never been a dark age for scouts. These supposed dark ages are where the less skilled fell through the cracks. Just like the heavy dark age, yeah it was hard but still owned, the scrubs fell through the cracks. Just like the assault dark age, yeah it was hard but still owned, the scrubs fell through the cracks. Just like the logi dark age........I don't think I need to go on.
From the beginning of uprising to 1.8 is what I consider the dark ages, where a medium frame Logi suit could outperform a scout in just about every way there was to outperform a scout.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1984
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Posted - 2014.08.10 17:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a Minmatar assault suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP.
But with the buff to assaults, the "Assault scout" will hopefully disappear, and we can go back to being the shotgunners/NK'ers in the dark that we were built to be.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1989
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Posted - 2014.08.10 19:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a Minmatar assault suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP. But with the buff to assaults, the "Assault scout" will hopefully disappear, and we can go back to being the shotgunners/NK'ers in the dark that we were built to be. We can only hope! While I'm happy to let it play for the time being, it maybe we have to see a drop layout reduction. The Scout can achieve everything and more than an Assault suit can, with minimal drawbacks. You said Scouts were being complained at more than sentinels because sentinels were supposedly newer players. The truth of the matter is simple. Scouts are meant to be low eHP Assassins and eWAR masters. They do this and more (that they shouldn't be able to) Sentinels are meamt to be slow moving, high eHP walking tanks. They do this and they do it well. It is easier to say a scout is broken because it operates outside of its expected parameters, while the sentinel is not quite so cut and dry, because it does what it's supposed, the question is, does it do it too well?
Thats actually very good analysis of the current situation IMO
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1990
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Posted - 2014.08.10 19:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kam Elto wrote:Give it a rest OP. You're constant whining about heavies is becoming tiresome. Maybe, just maybe the problem is that you're just not a good scout.
Your*
Secondly, please read what I wrote.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1990
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Posted - 2014.08.10 20:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
13ear wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:No the real reason people complain about scouts is because of fits like this. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6343This gallante suit has nearly 800 eHP Even with penalties moves faater than a Minmatar assault suit Has a profile capable of avoiding the majprity of scanners and all medium heavy, and other bricked scouts Has a prescision capable of scanning ALL medium or heavy suits Has nearly a 40m Scan Radius Has a Cloak Has Remote Explosoves Has 3 HP/s Armour Regen Has 30 HP/s Shield Regen (faster than the Minmatar Assault Suit) This Suit outclasses the Assault Suit in EVERYWAY, while still having the same/more eHP. I'd just like to point out that that fit you've provided a link for, is not faster than a minmatar assault suit. In fact it's slower than a minmatar logistics suits. I'll be the first to admit that scouts outclass assaults in almost every way, they're are too many advantages & too few disadvantages to using a scout suit. But when you have 700+ EHP on a scout suit, especially an armour tanked scout suit, you have to make sacrifices. The only scout suit that has no problem in playing the assault role effectively is the CalScout, which is by far the most OP scout suit. Imho the reason that the skilled players have such an issue w/ the trash players (HMG users) is the ease of use. We had the same issue w/ the RR, it's not just that's it's OP, it's the fact that it's so unbelievably easy to use that is takes any and all skill out of the equation. It's baffling to me that anyone who uses the HMG can imply scout SG is ez mode. The main reason I miss chromosome is the fact that more often than not, the deciding factor in a straight up fight regardless of what suit or weapon you were using, was player ability. The scout SGers you see facerolling heavies and going 50/0 did so w/ less EHP than you, less DPS than you & less range than you. They didn't beat you b/c the scout suit's OP. They beat you b/c they're the better than you. Admittedly not all scouts play this way, there are some who just tank their suits and camp w/ long range rifles... I don't see this as being a problem anymore b/c assaults will now do a far better job of it.
This^^
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1993
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Posted - 2014.08.11 02:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
MythTanker wrote:Lol... This post tho... Without statistical prove you say that most new players are heavies... I think we can all see that it would be a balance in between all suits, or even scouts and heavies for that fact... You just can't wait for hotfix charlie can you? No you want to see statistical prove that you can get easy kill on heavies with no effort involved... I would love to have an intelligent conversation with you, but... You are the best example of a QQ extremist... Bojo gives awesome arguments, try to be like him more... You are proving with every post you make that you don't want to negotiate these changes unless its laid 100% in your favor... You are starting to sound like a FOTM chaser...
This was entirely theory, with no mathematical proof to back up any of my claims whatsoever, and should be read as such.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1993
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Posted - 2014.08.11 04:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:MythTanker wrote:Lol... This post tho... Without statistical prove you say that most new players are heavies... I think we can all see that it would be a balance in between all suits, or even scouts and heavies for that fact... You just can't wait for hotfix charlie can you? No you want to see statistical prove that you can get easy kill on heavies with no effort involved... I would love to have an intelligent conversation with you, but... You are the best example of a QQ extremist... Bojo gives awesome arguments, try to be like him more... You are proving with every post you make that you don't want to negotiate these changes unless its laid 100% in your favor... You are starting to sound like a FOTM chaser... This was entirely theory, with no mathematical proof to back up any of my claims whatsoever, and should be read as such. So read as the bullsh*t it is aye o7
While it doesn't have the substance that it should, it does bring up a few valid points that Id like people to acknowledge.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2003
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Posted - 2014.08.11 20:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
In response to all the illiterate drivel being posted in attempt to flame me and those who are trying to support me--later today, if I have time, I will run a MLT HMG Minnie Heavy, and report my scores, good or bad, to the community.
I will run in 3 different scenarios--
1. Solo
2. Using an LAV and the infamous "Clown Car" tactic
3. Grouping up with a Logi and Cal scout for scans and reps
I will also mention the number of players in starter corps, high tier corps, and mid tier corps on each side.
I will then attempt to run a MLT Minnie scout, and the community can choose my fitting, and I will do the best I can with it, and report my scores in the same manner.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2003
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Posted - 2014.08.11 20:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:In response to all the illiterate drivel being posted in attempt to flame me and those who are trying to support me--later today, if I have time, I will run a MLT HMG Minnie Heavy, and report my scores, good or bad, to the community.
I will run in 3 different scenarios--
1. Solo
2. Using an LAV and the infamous "Clown Car" tactic
3. Grouping up with a Logi and Cal scout for scans and reps
I will also mention the number of players in starter corps, high tier corps, and mid tier corps on each side.
I will then attempt to run a MLT Minnie scout, and the community can choose my fitting, and I will do the best I can with it, and report my scores in the same manner. Wait. Youre going to do an actual REPORT? WITH LEGWORK??? Record the matches and post to YouTube to show your evidence.
I would, but unfortunately I have no recording material   
If someone wants to tag along to record it, then feel free to do so 
Id like to settle this once and for all.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2004
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Posted - 2014.08.11 20:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
Just for the reference, I run my Heavy solely to "rip the nuts" off of people who I kill too many times with my scout and then they pull out their Viziams and armor tank.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2004
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Posted - 2014.08.11 20:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Just for the reference, I run my Heavy solely to "rip the nuts" off of people who I kill too many times with my scout and then they pull out their Viziams and armor tank. Im 100% heavy spec. I can tell ya even at proto you wont like solo pubstaring. I have to because I exist in inconvenient times for normal goons. Heavy suits suck ass unsupported unless you get really lucky and are surrounded by newberries and idiots.running advanced or proto heavy isnt a profitable endeavor. I usually break even.
....I find them very easy to solo in personally, and even easier to use with a group.
But you try running a speed tanked minmitar scout, and tell me how easy it is 
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2004
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Posted - 2014.08.11 20:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Just for the reference, I run my Heavy solely to "rip the nuts" off of people who I kill too many times with my scout and then they pull out their Viziams and armor tank. Im 100% heavy spec. I can tell ya even at proto you wont like solo pubstaring. I have to because I exist in inconvenient times for normal goons. Heavy suits suck ass unsupported unless you get really lucky and are surrounded by newberries and idiots.running advanced or proto heavy isnt a profitable endeavor. I usually break even. ....I find them very easy to solo in personally, and even easier to use with a group. But you try running a speed tanked minmitar scout, and tell me how easy it is Easy to solo in from match start to end without swapping suits?
Yes.
Though I do occasionally need to find a supply depot to drop links and ammo or proxies if theres a really obnoxious tanker
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2007
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Posted - 2014.08.11 22:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
Yes.
Though I do occasionally need to find a supply depot to drop links and ammo or proxies if theres a really obnoxious tanker
I don't buy it. There isn't a sentinel player who won't call BS on you here. You Make a lot of wild claims andapparently can godroll everyone in a militia heavy solo. Unless a third party verifies, I consider any findings you present as suspect and anecdotal. Further the only way to get fatty ez mode is to stalk outlier solo pubstars who are being idiots. Attacking a hardened and well defended position or trying to hold against attacking squads (the sentinel's job) is not easy mode. Being a lolrolling pubtard who only engages assured kills does not demonstrate heavy opness. I will grant a few points, however. 1: there are too many fatties on the field at any given time. 2: heavies are hard to kill on their terms (in close and brawling) 3: Heavy Machineguns do not currently overheat fast enough for gun game to matter. 4: Heavy murdertaxi is stupid. I prefer to run you over on my way to Delta. Cant be bothered interrupting winning for the chance to waste ammo im gonna need in thirty seconds. However, scoutboy, its not the heavies who are going to be your bane shortly. That will be the assault buff. But here is one thing to consider: DUST is not balanced around the mmo holy trinity of tank/healer/dps. Heavies are so slow and easy to hit that giving them heavy weapons that are less effective than light weapons makes them utterly useless. This has happened before. If it happens again say hello to rifle, shotgun and mass driver sentinels once again. And no i am not referring to commandos. Your crying that heavies kill too fast can be turned right around and applied to the cloak/shotgun combo which can ohk any suit but a heavy. Heavies are not low dps, high HP. That formula makes them nothing but free kills.
Best people I can think of to verify are Borm1rir and Jaceon probably
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2012
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Posted - 2014.08.12 03:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kam Elto wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Kam Elto wrote:Give it a rest OP. You're constant whining about heavies is becoming tiresome. Maybe, just maybe the problem is that you're just not a good scout. Your* Secondly, please read what I wrote. *You're. It is a contraction for YOU ARE. Your is a possessive pronoun. For example, I will not read any more of YOUR whiny posts.
Whining is a noun, idiot.
Your grammar sucks, and you're an idiot.
Thank you for confirming that and embarrassing yourself.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2012
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Posted - 2014.08.12 04:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
MythTanker wrote:Kam Elto wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Kam Elto wrote:Give it a rest OP. You're constant whining about heavies is becoming tiresome. Maybe, just maybe the problem is that you're just not a good scout. Your* Secondly, please read what I wrote. *You're. It is a contraction for YOU ARE. Your is a possessive pronoun. For example, I will not read any more of YOUR whiny posts. lol i could've sworn he called some of our posts "illiterate" You are starting to bring entertainment value to the forums Gav.
Come on people, you're just embarrassing yourselves....
Whining is a noun in this instance, not a verb. Therefore "your".
Sorry, but you're both wrong.
And are further proving my point about illiteracy...
My advice: Stop while you're ahead.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2013
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Posted - 2014.08.12 04:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Can confirm that Gav is no longer illiterate. Hasn't been for weeks. 
Yet another famous "half compliment" 
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2016
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Posted - 2014.08.12 11:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Seems about right ^^
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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