DUST Search - [Long Detailed Post] CALDARI SCOUT IS OP

All Channels

General Discussions

[Long Detailed Post] CALDARI SCOUT IS OP

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4196	Posted - 2014.07.22 04:45:00 - [1] - Quote IMPORTANT: This post is mainly directed at the Caldari Scout. Minmatar and Amarr are fine (could use a buff?) Just because I use the term "Scouts" doesn't mean I think all scouts need such drastic changes. As for the Gallente scout...well, it doesn't have a 50 hp/s regen rate, or a super fast shield delay, and if you tank a lot of armor you become really slow. The dampening bonus it gets benefits the scout, not the squad like precision does. __________________________ Before I begin, here's a post I made the other week about the difference between the Caldari Scout and the Caldari Assault: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=167580 To summarize, here's what I concluded: I-Shayz-I wrote: The most surprising thing I found out in this experiment was what it takes to increase the Assault's stats to scout levels. To make an Assault that has similar stats as a base proto scout with bonuses you need: -1 Enhanced Energizer -2 Complex Precision Mods -1 Advanced Precision Mod -1 Complex Dampener -1 Enhanced Kin Cat -1 Complex Shield Regulator -2 Complex Range Amp -1 Basic Range Amp -CPU and PG Mods To make a Scout that has similar stats as a base Assault?: -Complex Shield Extender -Basic Shield Extender -Enhanced Ferroscale Plate Crazy huh? While yes the Assaults need a buff, the Caldari Scout is being abused just like every other FOTM that has ever come into existence. At the beginning of Uprising, a corp named Nyain San was notorious for running the same suit in every match. This suit at the time was the Logistics ck.0. Here's an example of what that fit might have looked like: http://imgur.com/4tn6aJV Link to full video of gameplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPjAIg1NJUA For comparison, here's what a Caldari Scout fitting might look like: http://imgur.com/foa00JO __________________________________________________________________________ OKAY, ON TO THE ACTUAL POST Again before I say anything, please know that I like to look at things from a neutral standpoint. I always look at the pros and cons, both sides of an issue, and the FACTS. So here's the first question we need to ask: 1. Why did no one use the Scout role in the first place? Why were all the other roles a better choice? To quickly answer that, cloaks never existed for a long time. This made it easy to pick off scouts from a long distance away. They also had less HP than every other role and could be quickly eliminated. This was mainly due to their slot layout. It was almost impossible to tank a scout suit, making it very hard for a scout to survive head to head against any role. As for the other roles, speed and dampening was just a few modules on an assault or logi suit, and scanners could provide all the e-war info that medium frames needed with even bigger ranges than scouts. _________________________________________________________________________ 2. Why are scouts now fulfilling a slayer class? What changed that made scouts go from a barely used "specialist" class to a "best suit in the game, you have to use one to be competitive" class? Well, three things happened Buff to Scouts (slot count, fitting space, skill bonuses) Introduction of Caldari Scout with the best skill bonuses and base stats Nerf to Active Scanners (But letting scouts still have 360 24/7 passive scans) The buff to scouts was a good thing. It made the class playable after so long and we immediately saw more players using scouts. It also diversified the fittings of a scout. Before, the slot layouts really limited the Minmatar and Gallente scouts as to what they could do. When the cloak was introduced and when scouts were given the second equipment slot, we saw all sort of things from logi-scouts to tanky scouts to full e-war and AV scouts. Scouts no longer needed to fear the wide-open maps because cloaks helped them hide better. Except that cloaks also became an issue because of their additional 25% bonus to dampening and long duration times. A scout could easily appear from nowhere and kill you even while tanking their suit to extreme levels. Passive scans let the scout know your every move and passive skills let them basically have free e-war modules, allowing them to further tank their suit. The Caldari Scout was introduced with huge advantages in its base stats. All other suits in the game need to use modules to get to these sorts of stats, whereas the Caldari Scout was essentially given free modules BUILT INTO the suit. Here's a list of modules that the Caldari Scout doesn't need to use: -Shield Rechargers/Energizers (already has a 50/s base shield recharge) -Shield Regulators (Shield delay values are low enough that even the penalty from stacking shield extenders doesn't do anything. Shield delay is 3 seconds, depleted is 4 seconds....best values in the game aside from Caldari Sentinel) -Precision Enhancers (Why use them when your skill bonus will allow you to scan 99% of suits out there aside from PC) -Range Amplifiers (Again with the skill bonus amplifying your gigantic 20-30 meter scan radius even further, who needs modules?) -Sprint Mods (Debatable, but the only reason you need to be faster than your base stats is to compete with enemy scouts, or if you're running a shotgun fit. Caldari isn't penalized in speed for tanking their suit like gallente are) Oh, you can also jump higher, strafe faster, run for longer, and dodge bullets easier...just from being in a light frame. _______________________________________________________________________ Now that we know the advantages of the scout, continue on to the second post where I describe the disadvantages of being a scout and possible solutions to discuss about how to balance them. The next part is important, please do not post before reading it. Thank you. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4196	Posted - 2014.07.22 04:46:00 - [2] - Quote IF YOU ARE SKIMMING AT THIS POINT, STOP HERE AND READ THIS PART 3. Yes Scouts have advantages, but they also have some really key disadvantages that make them less effective at some things than others right? Of course! Today I played 5 matches, 4 of them were against full squads using all Caldari scouts. I ran my Proto Amarr Assault with a prof 5 Viziam to show them the pain. http://imgur.com/0XDBHw5 Oh wait, out of their entire squad only one of them had a single death? That's strange, when I spawned in I thought that Caldari scouts could easily be taken out with a few shots from a scrambler. huh ______________________________________________________________________________________ The main disadvantages of the scout: -Lower average HP values (The Caldari Assault can get 100 more shield compared to the scout) -Only 6 H/L slots at proto (One more than the Sentinels, one less than assaults, but they do have two equipment) -Alpha damage can be brutal (Can't take a sniper shot / PLC / Mass Driver easily like other suits) I just sat here for 30 minutes trying to figure out more but that's about it right there unfortunately. However, I started thinking about Destiny and how they balance the classes between 3 stats...let's do that for Dust really quick Armor: To put it simply, your total HP Recovery: How fast you can recover your HP after you have been hit Agility: Movement, strafe, air control, hump height...things like that. In Dust, Scouts have the best Recovery and Agility while having decent HP values Assaults have about medium everything Heavies are best in HP, medium recovery, and low agility Logistics have medium HP values, a bit higher recovery, but slightly low agility. To put simply, Scouts have two things they are best at, which is bad for balance. This is even more true of the Caldari Scout, which has even more things it is best at, as described in the first post. __________________________________________________________________________________________ 4. What are our solutions then? A. Swap recovery values for Scouts and Assaults. -Caldari Assaults have the best shield regen, Gallente Assaults have the best base armor regeneration. -Possibly reduce them a bit so that we don't have Amarr and Gallente shield recharge so high. -Scouts now have recovery values slightly higher than Logistics, but NEED to sacrifice HP modules if they want to have a fast recovery -Shield delay values should stay the same. Assaults are long delay fast recovery; scouts are short delay slow recovery. B. Reduce Base HP -If Scouts get max recovery and agility, they should be insanely easy to take out. -Still allows scouts to tank their suits if they want to, but reduces the effect -The best scouts will then become those that can flank and hide, -Discourages head to head engagements and encourages the use of e-war C. Decrease fitting capacity drastically, increase skill fitting reduction of cloaks, decrease fitting cost of e-war and hacking mods -Makes it more worth it to run a damp, range amp, or hack mod than a plate, also easier to fit. -Possible to fit 4 complex extenders and a proto weapon if you fit nothing else (or use cpu/pg mods in lows) -Cloaks will still be easy to fit, but you won't have a huge excess of fitting space if you don't use one. __________________________________________________________________________________________ Final Thoughts: I want scouts to be competitive but I don't want them to be the best slayers in the game because their base stats tell them they are. I want scouts to be the best ones at being sneaky and getting kills while the player isn't paying attention rather than being able to dance with a heavy and win. I want it to be punishing for a scout to be detected. If I see a scout charging right at me, they should die quickly. If they decloak right in front of me it shouldn't take 10 seconds of direct hits to strip away their HP. They shouldn't be able to hide behind cover for 5 seconds and have their 450 shields back up. I want scouts to use e-war mods rather than HP mods, to be punished more (not less) for stacking shield extenders, to have a reason to use armor repairers and shield rechargers/energizers rather than relying on insanely high base recovery values built into the suit. To still have to use modules that relate to their skill bonuses... I want to be killed by high HP/fast regen slayer assaults, which I can dampen my suit against, that can't see me sneaking up on them, which I can destroy in my heavy if they get out of hand, which can't cloak and tank their suit at the same time. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet 182	Posted - 2014.07.22 05:10:00 - [3] - Quote It all sounds good to me, boss. I liked Scout suits pre 1.8 and we should be striving to return to that level of balance and then address their underperforming nature less drastically.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3645	Posted - 2014.07.22 05:12:00 - [4] - Quote We're is the TL; DR for chumps who can't sit still for a second? Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! The eyes of God compelles you!!!
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 919	Posted - 2014.07.22 05:17:00 - [5] - Quote i usually don't like when things have to be nerfed but you hit the nail on the head. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4198	Posted - 2014.07.22 05:21:00 - [6] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: We're is the TL; DR for chumps who can't sit still for a second? I-Shayz-I wrote: Final Thoughts/TLDR: I want scouts to be competitive but I don't want them to be the best slayers in the game because their base stats tell them they are. I want scouts to be the best ones at being sneaky and getting kills while the player isn't paying attention rather than being able to dance with a heavy and win. I want it to be punishing for a scout to be detected. If I see a scout charging right at me, they should die quickly. If they decloak right in front of me it shouldn't take 10 seconds of direct hits to strip away their HP. They shouldn't be able to hide behind cover for 5 seconds and have their 450 shields back up. I want scouts to use e-war mods rather than HP mods, to be punished more (not less) for stacking shield extenders, to have a reason to use armor repairers and shield rechargers/energizers rather than relying on insanely high base recovery values built into the suit. To still have to use modules that relate to their skill bonuses... I want to be killed by high HP/fast regen slayer assaults, which I can dampen my suit against, that can't see me sneaking up on them, which I can destroy in my heavy if they get out of hand, which can't cloak and tank their suit at the same time. Or you could possibly skim it and read only the bolded and underlined things...that would work too. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Final Resolution. 248	Posted - 2014.07.22 05:21:00 - [7] - Quote inb4 Calscouts who rely on their crutch teeling you to HTFU If you are a scout and you only use EWAR then you have my salutes o7 END THE TYRANNY OF BRINK TANKED SCOUTS
pegasis prime PROTO WOLVES 1806	Posted - 2014.07.22 05:27:00 - [8] - Quote The op seems to be suffering from a case of imafuckingsmartarse syndrome , this horrible infliction forces the inflicted to come on to the forums and continue to complain about cal scouts when CCP has already confirmed a nerf/overhaul of all the scouts bonuses in hot fix charge. Proud Gunlogi pilot and forge gunner since August 2012. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Final Resolution. 249	Posted - 2014.07.22 05:37:00 - [9] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: The op seems to be suffering from a case of imafuckingsmartarse syndrome , this horrible infliction forces the inflicted to come on to the forums and continue to complain about cal scouts when CCP has already confirmed a nerf/overhaul of all the scouts bonuses in hot fix charge. The problem are not the bonuses. It's the stats. If you are a scout and you only use EWAR then you have my salutes o7 END THE TYRANNY OF BRINK TANKED SCOUTS
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4198	Posted - 2014.07.22 05:44:00 - [10] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: The op seems to be suffering from a case of imafuckingsmartarse syndrome I guess I could have made it short and simple like everyone else on the forums... "CAL SCOUT R SO OP CCP PLZ NERF" Hey what do you know? It's not half bad 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!

Unlucky Fluke The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 4	Posted - 2014.07.22 05:49:00 - [11] - Quote And I thought a proto ferroscale plate cost less to fit and gave more HP than proto Shields??? isn't it 75 hp for the plate and 66 hp for the Shields? costing 23/8 for fitting a ferroscale plate and 57(?)/11 to fit the Shields? As I've had both the Gallente and Caldari suits at proto I dissagree, a lot. On my Gallente suit I get 233 Shields and 496 armor using 4 proto ferroscale plates. Yes it only has a 3 base armor rep speed but that doesn't matter, I can easily fit a triage hive, a normal hive (that can be swapped for allotek hives and a proto scaner) while still being able to fit a proto gun enhanced and even better sidearm in some cases and proto nades off course. No, Your entire OP is BS. I've mostly stopped using my Gal scout, its way too OP and still lots better than the Caldari. Come at me bro, hit me too hard and I'll toss Down 2 hives and rep 140 armor per impulse while still moving at max speed, 5.45 in move speed. Hit my Caldari scout hard and it takes almost 5 Seconds until I start getting 50 HP back, that stops as soon as I get hit by anything. Maxing my Caldari scout in a similar way, using all Shields and 1 proto ferroscale plate and 1 proto repping plate I get less HP, are slightly slower and I can in most cases only fit a basic sidearm and 2 compact hives.... EDIT: I don't disagree at all that scouts are in general way too good. But I certainly dissagree that for some reason the Caldari Scout is supposed to be better than the Gallente scout in any way, (Well except for it being more fun to use IMO), fit a Gal scout in a tryhardy way like the Gal logis of old and you become a very powerfull slayer indeed....
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1857	Posted - 2014.07.22 06:18:00 - [12] - Quote Some very reasonable points OP. The OG scout community is working with CCP Rattati to try and reign in a number of these issues in both the short and medium term. I would recommend waiting for Charlie to drop and then re-assessing. Buffing the Assault so that the difference between light and medium suits is more pronounced, along with changes to EWAR within the scout suits should provide a push towards better balance between the classes, and changes to HP modules that will push scouts away from armor tanking. Hopefully...it may actually take until Delta (with the proposed addition of efficacy bonuses and removal of shared passive scans) for that to really eventuate. I'd disagree on one point, which is recharge on scouts. Looking at the suits through the Destiny paradigm does not accurately reflect balance in Dust. Due to the extremely low EHP on scouts fitted for their role (most of my fits run between 200 and 300 EHP), high recharge and agility is a necessity. My buffer is very limited, so being able to rebuild that quickly is crutial to playing an effective hit-and-run/flanking role. I would hope that the changes to Assaults in Charlie would allow then to achieve similar or greater recharge values, if fitted for it. But the changes already underway should go some way to adressing your concerns. o7 Knowledge is power
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 712	Posted - 2014.07.22 07:37:00 - [13] - Quote Cal scout - working as intended. Why are you still whining about the cal scout when its already getting nerfed in Charlie? When Charlie drops you'll need to save all that whining for whatever kills you then.
Unidentified Caldarian Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 199	Posted - 2014.07.22 07:48:00 - [14] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Cal scout - working as intended. Why are you still whining about the cal scout when its already getting nerfed in Charlie? When Charlie drops you'll need to save all that whining for whatever kills you then. He's not whining. He's right. New Signature for exposure: Caldari Scout Nerf/Removal Caldari Scout Nerf/Removal
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 574	Posted - 2014.07.22 08:08:00 - [15] - Quote I actually don't see most of that as a problem, in and of itself. The issue isn't the suit, or the stats - it's the modules. Why is it that a shield extender is of so much more value than precision? Why is it that a plate is so often better than a dampener? The same is true for the other frames. I think the best 'fix' for a CalScout (or GalScouts, which are actually the ones that aggravate me, personally) is making other modules better. Because nerfing the base stats of the Caldari Scout cripples and punishes those who actually use it as intended, wih plenty of EWAR. I don't think you'd argue that CalScout is OP with only 250 EHP? It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 396	Posted - 2014.07.22 08:14:00 - [16] - Quote well to be honest i would chill out and see how the precision nerf goes before we jump to conclusions i already know a few people that are going to be pissed they skilled into the FOTM and it's already being nerfed Speak out against the heavy QQ
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 919	Posted - 2014.07.22 09:13:00 - [17] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Some very reasonable points OP. The OG scout community is working with CCP Rattati to try and reign in a number of these issues in both the short and medium term. I would recommend waiting for Charlie to drop and then re-assessing. Buffing the Assault so that the difference between light and medium suits is more pronounced, along with changes to EWAR within the scout suits should provide a push towards better balance between the classes, and changes to HP modules that will push scouts away from armor tanking. Hopefully...it may actually take until Delta (with the proposed addition of efficacy bonuses and removal of shared passive scans) for that to really eventuate. I'd disagree on one point, which is recharge on scouts. Looking at the suits through the Destiny paradigm does not accurately reflect balance in Dust. Due to the extremely low EHP on scouts fitted for their role (most of my fits run between 200 and 300 EHP), high recharge and agility is a necessity. My buffer is very limited, so being able to rebuild that quickly is crutial to playing an effective hit-and-run/flanking role. I would hope that the changes to Assaults in Charlie would allow then to achieve similar or greater recharge values, if fitted for it. But the changes already underway should go some way to adressing your concerns. o7 nope scouts cant have the best speed, regen,ewar, and be freaking invisible. what does a scout need faster regen then a assault when he can run out of the area and turn invisible. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1859	Posted - 2014.07.22 09:16:00 - [18] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Brokerib wrote: Some very reasonable points OP. The OG scout community is working with CCP Rattati to try and reign in a number of these issues in both the short and medium term. I would recommend waiting for Charlie to drop and then re-assessing. Buffing the Assault so that the difference between light and medium suits is more pronounced, along with changes to EWAR within the scout suits should provide a push towards better balance between the classes, and changes to HP modules that will push scouts away from armor tanking. Hopefully...it may actually take until Delta (with the proposed addition of efficacy bonuses and removal of shared passive scans) for that to really eventuate. I'd disagree on one point, which is recharge on scouts. Looking at the suits through the Destiny paradigm does not accurately reflect balance in Dust. Due to the extremely low EHP on scouts fitted for their role (most of my fits run between 200 and 300 EHP), high recharge and agility is a necessity. My buffer is very limited, so being able to rebuild that quickly is crutial to playing an effective hit-and-run/flanking role. I would hope that the changes to Assaults in Charlie would allow then to achieve similar or greater recharge values, if fitted for it. But the changes already underway should go some way to adressing your concerns. o7 nope scouts cant have the best speed, regen,ewar, and be freaking invisible. what does a scout need faster regen then a assault when he can run out of the area and turn invisible. Because? Knowledge is power
xAckie Ghost. Mob 434	Posted - 2014.07.22 09:18:00 - [19] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Brokerib wrote: Some very reasonable points OP. The OG scout community is working with CCP Rattati to try and reign in a number of these issues in both the short and medium term. I would recommend waiting for Charlie to drop and then re-assessing. Buffing the Assault so that the difference between light and medium suits is more pronounced, along with changes to EWAR within the scout suits should provide a push towards better balance between the classes, and changes to HP modules that will push scouts away from armor tanking. Hopefully...it may actually take until Delta (with the proposed addition of efficacy bonuses and removal of shared passive scans) for that to really eventuate. I'd disagree on one point, which is recharge on scouts. Looking at the suits through the Destiny paradigm does not accurately reflect balance in Dust. Due to the extremely low EHP on scouts fitted for their role (most of my fits run between 200 and 300 EHP), high recharge and agility is a necessity. My buffer is very limited, so being able to rebuild that quickly is crutial to playing an effective hit-and-run/flanking role. I would hope that the changes to Assaults in Charlie would allow then to achieve similar or greater recharge values, if fitted for it. But the changes already underway should go some way to adressing your concerns. o7 nope scouts cant have the best speed, regen,ewar, and be freaking invisible. what does a scout need faster regen then a assault when he can run out of the area and turn invisible. @ cuse: cause...scouts... regen an delay should be swapped. But whatever, Charlie wont change anything. Scouts stacked with plates or extenders still take out heavies, which have more HP than assaults.
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo 382	Posted - 2014.07.22 10:09:00 - [20] - Quote Hit the nail on the head, nothing else to say. I use Cal Scout as Caldari Master Race, and Cal Assault, and this definately would help. I will be the only player to Prototype every single god damn weapon before Dust dies. 3 to go.

Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1665	Posted - 2014.07.22 11:40:00 - [21] - Quote Quote: I want scouts to be competitive but I don't want them to be the best slayers in the game because their base stats tell them they are. I want scouts to be the best ones at being sneaky and getting kills while the player isn't paying attention rather than being able to dance with a heavy and win. I use both the Amarr AK0 & the Caldari scout these days, i have no loss of actual performance when using either, if i am in the Amarr suit, i just brute force my way through everything, while in the scout suit i have better intel on enemy locations. Neither of witch helps me get more kills then i do with the other suit, its just a diffrent play style, in the scout i can easier take on multiple opponents in a thight space, with the amarr assault, i can take on more people in an open space at once. Quote: I want it to be punishing for a scout to be detected. If I see a scout charging right at me, they should die quickly. If they decloak right in front of me it shouldn't take 10 seconds of direct hits to strip away their HP. They shouldn't be able to hide behind cover for 5 seconds and have their 450 shields back up. If a scout decloaks in front of me, they have an average life span of about 1 second, included in that 1s is reaction time, aiming and killing it, i have no idea how "any" suit can stay alive for 10 seconds in front of someone.... Also why do you let them recover ? this is the most absurd part of your entire post, thats 15 seconds....i kill an entire squad in 15 seconds.... Quote: I want scouts to use e-war mods rather than HP mods, to be punished more (not less) for stacking shield extenders, to have a reason to use armor repairers and shield rechargers/energizers rather than relying on insanely high base recovery values built into the suit. To still have to use modules that relate to their skill bonuses... I think the game should sitll be all about how you want to fit a particular suit, vs 1 something role it has to fit, i use both my suits to do 1 thing, kill multiple enemies before they can more or less react, though 1 suit is better for short range, they other better at medium range, if you want to use E-Warr modules, go for it, but ive always like a strong offence as the best defence. Quote: I want to be killed by high HP/fast regen slayer assaults, which I can dampen my suit against, that can't see me sneaking up on them, which I can destroy in my heavy if they get out of hand, which can't cloak and tank their suit at the same time. If you would hand me a High HP/Fast regen slayer assault suit, i mean higher then what is currently possible, it would not be a funny sight to go up against me, and ive always rolled solo since Dust started. So i know a bit about going up against 2 stacked teams. Personally, i think all the suits are being "used" right now, witch is a good thing, as opposed to never seeing a scout suit and only just seeing Bricked Slayer Logies, now i get killed by Heavy's, scouts, logies and assaults, witch is a big + in my book. Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 81	Posted - 2014.07.22 12:55:00 - [22] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: IMPORTANT: This post is mainly directed at the Caldari Scout. Minmatar and Amarr are fine (could use a buff?) Just because I use the term "Scouts" doesn't mean I think all scouts need such drastic changes. As for the Gallente scout...well, it doesn't have a 50 hp/s regen rate, or a super fast shield delay, and if you tank a lot of armor you become really slow. The dampening bonus it gets benefits the scout, not the squad like precision does. __________________________ Before I begin, here's a post I made the other week about the difference between the Caldari Scout and the Caldari Assault: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=167580 To summarize, here's what I concluded: I-Shayz-I wrote: The most surprising thing I found out in this experiment was what it takes to increase the Assault's stats to scout levels. To make an Assault that has similar stats as a base proto scout with bonuses you need: -1 Enhanced Energizer -2 Complex Precision Mods -1 Advanced Precision Mod -1 Complex Dampener -1 Enhanced Kin Cat -1 Complex Shield Regulator -2 Complex Range Amp -1 Basic Range Amp -CPU and PG Mods To make a Scout that has similar stats as a base Assault?: -Complex Shield Extender -Basic Shield Extender -Enhanced Ferroscale Plate Crazy huh? While yes the Assaults need a buff, the Caldari Scout is being abused just like every other FOTM that has ever come into existence. At the beginning of Uprising, a corp named Nyain San was notorious for running the same suit in every match. This suit at the time was the Logistics ck.0. Here's an example of what that fit might have looked like: http://imgur.com/4tn6aJV Link to full video of gameplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPjAIg1NJUA For comparison, here's what a Caldari Scout fitting might look like: http://imgur.com/foa00JO __________________________________________________________________________ OKAY, ON TO THE ACTUAL POST Again before I say anything, please know that I like to look at things from a neutral standpoint. I always look at the pros and cons, both sides of an issue, and the FACTS. So here's the first question we need to ask: 1. Why did no one use the Scout role in the first place? Why were all the other roles a better choice? To quickly answer that, cloaks never existed for a long time. This made it easy to pick off scouts from a long distance away. They also had less HP than every other role and could be quickly eliminated. This was mainly due to their slot layout. It was almost impossible to tank a scout suit, making it very hard for a scout to survive head to head against any role. As for the other roles, speed and dampening was just a few modules on an assault or logi suit, and scanners could provide all the e-war info that medium frames needed with even bigger ranges than scouts. _________________________________________________________________________ 2. Why are scouts now fulfilling a slayer class? What changed that made scouts go from a barely used "specialist" class to a "best suit in the game, you have to use one to be competitive" class? Well, three things happened Buff to Scouts (slot count, fitting space, skill bonuses) Introduction of Caldari Scout with the best skill bonuses and base stats Nerf to Active Scanners (But letting scouts still have 360 24/7 passive scans) The buff to scouts was a good thing. It made the class playable after so long and we immediately saw more players using scouts. It also diversified the fittings of a scout. Before, the slot layouts really limited the Minmatar and Gallente scouts as to what they could do. When the cloak was introduced and when scouts were given the second equipment slot, we saw all sort of things from logi-scouts to tanky scouts to full e-war and AV scouts. Scouts no longer needed to fear the wide-open maps because cloaks helped them hide better. Except that cloaks also became an issue because of their additional 25% bonus to dampening and long duration times. A scout could easily appear from nowhere and kill you even while tanking their suit to extreme levels. Passive scans let the scout know your every move and passive skills let them basically have free e-war modules, allowing them to further tank their suit. The Caldari Scout was introduced with huge advantages in its base stats. All other suits in the game need to use modules to get to these sorts of stats, whereas the Caldari Scout was essentially given free modules BUILT INTO the suit. Here's a list of modules that the Caldari Scout doesn't need to use: -Shield Rechargers/Energizers (already has a 50/s base shield recharge) -Shield Regulators (Shield delay values are low enough that even the penalty from stacking shield extenders doesn't do anything. Shield delay is 3 seconds, depleted is 4 seconds....best values in the game aside from Caldari Sentinel) -Precision Enhancers (Why use them when your skill bonus will allow you to scan 99% of suits out there aside from PC) -Range Amplifiers (Again with the skill bonus amplifying your gigantic 20-30 meter scan radius even further, who needs modules?) -Sprint Mods (Debatable, but the only reason you need to be faster than your base stats is to compete with enemy scouts, or if you're running a shotgun fit. Caldari isn't penalized in speed for tanking their suit like gallente are) reading it. [/u] Thank you. @your posts http://m.youtube.com/watch?list=LL8YoLLycWM8uYz-YkiPltkA&v=5hfYJsQAhl0 Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3665	Posted - 2014.07.22 13:03:00 - [23] - Quote Poor CalScouts, getting nerfed. Now they will only be able to scan everything within 100 meters 24/7 and give everyone in their squad(and themselves) a super advantage. Not to mention they are gaining damps. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3145	Posted - 2014.07.22 13:03:00 - [24] - Quote @ Shayz Read the entire post; agreed with many of your points. As Broker pointed out earlier, we've reached out to the Devs in hopes of seeing some of these issues resolved. The central theme of our proposal is efficacy bonuses. We believe that "slayer" Scouts should leave behind their scout-perks when they tank up for the frontline. By replacing base bonuses with their equivalent in efficacy bonuses, we believe we'd see an increase in ewar module usage (and a decrease in hp tank). 600+ HP Scouts are a joke; they should be the exception, not the norm. We hope to see fewer of these abominations come Charlie; with luck, the ham-fisted slayer crowd will migrate to the Assault frame. Should they linger, we look forward to implementation of efficacy bonuses come Delta. All that to say, the Scout Community agrees with a number of your assessments and has been working collectively toward seeing these issues resolved. Yatta yatta. While I'm here .... aren't you an uber-logi? Seeing as Scouts are doing their part, perhaps you can talk sense to some of your Heavy friends? They're a 'bit spam-sandwiched these days, and they are quite sensitive about it. At least when we bring it up ... maybe you'll have better luck :-) Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 200	Posted - 2014.07.22 13:15:00 - [25] - Quote And aganin, you try to weak/nerf whole suit and role, not the problem.. I have 2 things to say. Every suit should be able to achive what he want. You want tank? Then tank. You want ewar? Then make ewar. Everyone have thier playstyles. And number two. If it is so big deal, then and bonuses to modules of some sort, i dunno. PS. Thats absurd thar cal is so op. Tanked cal can be scanned without any peroblem. Eqiup one. Gal always was better, from start up to now. My cal (any cal) cant survive ScR. I for e.g. im dying form single charged viziam shoot. One more. Scanning medium/heavy dropsuits means nothing, because everyone can do it. -~-~-Caldari Loyalist-~-~- Those are people!, Those are people!, I'm gonna go say hi to the people! < Markiplier
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4220	Posted - 2014.07.22 13:24:00 - [26] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: While I'm here .... aren't you an uber-logi? Seeing as Scouts are doing their part, perhaps you can talk sense to some of your Heavy friends? They're a 'bit spam-sandwiched these days, and they are quite sensitive about it. At least when we bring up the issue. Heavy spam isn't an issue...equipment spam is where the true problem lies. Sentinels camping a supply depot with 50 nanohives and uplinks is so stupid and shouldn't even be possible. It also lags the game out, with the only option at that point being to run a mass driver and hopefully take out the equipment. It's because 3-4 sentinels can keep spawning into an objective on the same uplinks getting repped by the same nanohives that it becomes impossible to drop down into some objectives. Heavies then be default...rely on support by other players. You don't see very often a solo heavy getting 40+ kills in a match, yet it seems to be commonplace for solo Caldari Scouts. I'm one of the decent logistics players that can actually get 3000+ wp without needing to spam equipment all over the place. I'm also the only person on the team who seems to be focused on trying to take out the equipment spam rather than just rushing in to die over and over again....even if it only nets me 100 wp for destroying their entire pile of equipment. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3146	Posted - 2014.07.22 13:37:00 - [27] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Heavy spam isn't an issue...equipment spam is where the true problem lies. That makes sense. But to be quite honest, I don't know that the problem is limited to EQ. Anecdotal evidence to follow :-) Played somewhere between 12 and 15 Ambush matches yesterday. A handful of those matches featured EQ spam around a supply depot. Over half of those matches featured 8-10 Heavies per side. Post 1.8, we Scouts were immediately alarmed by and sensitive to the increase in our number. It foretold a problem. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Sgt Buttscratch Edimmu Warfighters 2165	Posted - 2014.07.22 13:40:00 - [28] - Quote I think changing shields and armor to react differently by frame size would help a lot. Switching HP gains from a numbered amount to a percentage of base suit HP would be ideal. Penalties based on suit size to profile, speed and hitbox size; Sheilds raise profile db through stronger electrical frequency, Armor raise profile db through sound, heavier weight, heavier foot steps, ( This in turn would make scouts need to adjust fits to balance HP v Stealth). Armor should effect a scouts speed more than it should to a medium or heavy, Sheilds should create a larger hitbox on scouts. Their frame is not designed to carry bulk, severe penalties should kick in when they attempt to do so. As for cloaks, a price hike is needed, they are a lot cheaper than most other equipment, prototype costing under 10k. Flux grenades should effect this equipment also. Give me my scrambler pistol back....**
Sgt Buttscratch Edimmu Warfighters 2165	Posted - 2014.07.22 13:46:00 - [29] - Quote I think changing shields and armor to react differently by frame size would help a lot. Switching HP gains from a numbered amount to a percentage of base suit HP would be ideal. Penalties based on suit size to profile, speed and hitbox size; Sheilds raise profile db through stronger electrical frequency, Armor raise profile db through sound, heavier weight, heavier foot steps, ( This in turn would make scouts need to adjust fits to balance HP v Stealth). Armor should effect a scouts speed more than it should to a medium or heavy, Sheilds should create a larger hitbox on scouts. Their frame is not designed to carry bulk, severe penalties should kick in when they attempt to do so. As for cloaks, a price hike is needed, they are a lot cheaper than most other equipment, prototype costing under 10k. Flux grenades should effect this equipment also. Give me my scrambler pistol back....**
Luis rules 1st Valor Coalition Red Whines. 25	Posted - 2014.07.22 14:06:00 - [30] - Quote This is stupid... As simple as that. Everything that's decent in the game gets nerfed or crippled close to non usable. A lot of people skilled into the suit because of the passive scan, and it seems they'll remove it... Yet, people keeps complaining. Can't base your decision on who kills who, btw. I kill heavies...? yeah, but at the right distance with any suit. Engaging at the right range is the key here and you cannot say any scout or suit is OP due that. Because it has too high total HP!? WTF!!!?? So stupid. First of all, you are complaining that the Caldari Scout has too much HP, but the truth is that Galente Scout could have even more. Armor plates cost less and gives a huge buff. Anything that is armor based can get higher numbers. And don't start complaining about the move penalty, shields have a delay penalty and are harder to fit than armor stuff. @Sgt Buttscratch This is getting off topic, but flux should not only disrupt shields and equipment, but cloak as you mention, scans and repair tools. ATM there's no counter to spider tanking and there should clearly be one. Since I'm assuming is some sort of short EMP, it makes perfect sense.

Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 806	Posted - 2014.07.22 14:06:00 - [31] - Quote I have used the cal scout since day one. My best solo scout score was 43/2 with the adv cal scout and a CRW. That stayed my best solo score until I got lvl 3 adv gal scout. My first day using the adv scout suit (without a cloak) I obtained 45/1 with a crw. I need less than 200k sp to get proto gal scout and I plan to use it all the time. For a slayer, being a ghost is much more important than having good scans. That's what our eyes are for. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 51	Posted - 2014.07.22 14:10:00 - [32] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Poor CalScouts, getting nerfed. Now they will only be able to scan everything within 100 meters 24/7 and give everyone in their squad(and themselves) a super advantage. Not to mention they are gaining damps. Don't they have to stack precision enhancers to that know. There losing the precision bonus right, so how can they scan everything within 100 meters. I'm confused. The dampening bonus however is just random. That just saying the gallente scout has no role as a scout since caldari is given dampening. The Blazing Intellect Machine
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3665	Posted - 2014.07.22 14:14:00 - [33] - Quote Luis rules 1st wrote: This is stupid... As simple as that. Everything that's decent in the game gets nerfed or crippled close to non usable. A lot of people skilled into the suit because of the passive scan, and it seems they'll remove it... Yet, people keeps complaining. Can't base your decision on who kills who, btw. I kill heavies...? yeah, but at the right distance with any suit. Engaging at the right range is the key here and you cannot say any scout or suit is OP due that. Because it has too high total HP!? WTF!!!?? So stupid. First of all, you are complaining that the Caldari Scout has too much HP, but the truth is that Galente Scout could have even more. Armor plates cost less and gives a huge buff. The Amarr could do it as well. Gallente got nerfed worst, But now that Caldari is on the chopping block everybody gives a damn about not nerfing this and that. Either turn everything back to 1.8 numbers and let everything be(while buffing everything that is useless) Or continue with balancing we have going on now. Or just skill Amarr because they keep getting buffed when not needed(getting extra slots while not giving up anything in return) "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3665	Posted - 2014.07.22 14:17:00 - [34] - Quote BlazeXYZ wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Poor CalScouts, getting nerfed. Now they will only be able to scan everything within 100 meters 24/7 and give everyone in their squad(and themselves) a super advantage. Not to mention they are gaining damps. Don't they have to stack precision enhancers to that know. There losing the precision bonus right, so how can they scan everything within 100 meters. I'm confused. The dampening bonus however is just random. That just saying the gallente scout has no role as a scout since caldari is given dampening. I still have no idea what they were thinking with the damps. I guess it's so they can hide and run range amps. As for the precision mods, with 2 of them they will be able to scan nearly everything. With 3-4 they will be able to scan everything except max triple damp Gallente/Caldari scouts. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Luis rules 1st Valor Coalition Red Whines. 26	Posted - 2014.07.22 14:25:00 - [35] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: The Amarr could do it as well. Gallente got nerfed worst, But now that Caldari is on the chopping block everybody gives a damn about not nerfing this and that. Either turn everything back to 1.8 numbers and let everything be(while buffing everything that is useless) Or continue with balancing we have going on now. Or just skill Amarr because they keep getting buffed when not needed(getting extra slots while not giving up anything in return) Wait, I wasn't OK with Gal nerfed to begin with. That suit was the only one who could be invisible to scanners. But no, now they decided that it was OP. Yeah, OP is sacrificing my slots in dampeners so a gal logi, so easily can scan me, without sacrificing armor, shield or anything. The counter is so easily achievable with no penalty, while gal scout is close to death already. Same with cal scout, with to be efficient in passive scanning had to use extra modules. About nerfing, I've always been against it! I just don't like it. The only one I was OK with was TAR, which could be used at close so effectively. But check laser, for example. I loved it, it was nerfed so bad that I didn't touch it for long. Nowadays I believe it's worst than it was, since now it can be used at close as well. I should skill back into it and kill everyone with that weapon again. But eventually people will complain and it'll be nerfed.... again... But yeah, keep that balancing going on. Surely it is going great! The results speak for themselves.
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 580	Posted - 2014.07.22 14:29:00 - [36] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: BlazeXYZ wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Poor CalScouts, getting nerfed. Now they will only be able to scan everything within 100 meters 24/7 and give everyone in their squad(and themselves) a super advantage. Not to mention they are gaining damps. Don't they have to stack precision enhancers to that know. There losing the precision bonus right, so how can they scan everything within 100 meters. I'm confused. The dampening bonus however is just random. That just saying the gallente scout has no role as a scout since caldari is given dampening. I still have no idea what they were thinking with the damps. I guess it's so they can hide and run range amps. As for the precision mods, with 2 of them they will be able to scan nearly everything. With 3-4 they will be able to scan everything except max triple damp Gallente/Caldari scouts. Yep, my triple damp CalScout will be super OP. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 955	Posted - 2014.07.22 14:35:00 - [37] - Quote BlazeXYZ wrote: That just saying the gallente scout has no role as a scout since caldari is given dampening. Or that could say that with only two low slots you have to make choices as opposed to having multiple low slots and damp so your not really making any choices and you can tank , be fast , have range and still use the passive damp bonuses . Cal scouts can't do that and have always had to make choices . I just don't get the Cal scout is OP thing , I get shot gunned by mostly Gal scouts and NK'ed by mostly Min scouts . Just because someone can kill in a suit doesn't make it OP , I know for a fact that heavies are not OP but a lot of people use them and I love using my Commandoes and I know that there not OP . Whatever , I just can't wait until they shut the servers down . I'm getting so drunk and smoking so much Kush , enjoying myself and having a party because I won't have to deal with issues like these anymore . I mean , we can't even wait until the changes that were announced that were and are to change some of the same things that are mentioned . Cal will get screwed like always and then people will jump on some other suit to kill that next because most will claim it OP , when everybody knows that Gal has been OP since day one and still is even with the armor changes and it actually received a buff threw the repairer changes and plate power usage which helps to fit better plates at less of a power consumption hit . Shields need to be addressed and need a buff in HP's , this is just the same cycle where the things that could be fixed get changed so far away from being fixed because there numbers get thrown off by buffs and nerfs . You could be so close but in focusing on other things instead of staying focused , it just becomes worse . Like vehicles but I guess infantry will not be happy until they become as sad a state as vehicle usage . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
Luis rules 1st Valor Coalition Red Whines. 26	Posted - 2014.07.22 14:35:00 - [38] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Yep, my triple damp CalScout will be super OP. Wait! What!!?? How exactly are you gonna fit 3 (Three) dampeners in 2 (TWO) slots? Dampeners were low slots the last time I checked and Caldari scout has two, unless I missed something... Otherwise... I need to know that!!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 956	Posted - 2014.07.22 14:43:00 - [39] - Quote Luis rules 1st wrote: Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Yep, my triple damp CalScout will be super OP. Wait! What!!?? How exactly are you gonna fit 3 (Three) dampeners in 2 (TWO) slots? Dampeners were low slots the last time I checked and Caldari scout has two, unless I missed something... Otherwise... I need to know that!! Prob means the bonus plus the actual mod usage . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
Luis rules 1st Valor Coalition Red Whines. 26	Posted - 2014.07.22 14:47:00 - [40] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Prob means the bonus plus the actual mod usage . The way you written it is one dampener. At the best could be double dampener. Triple.... still waiting for that sort of bug and make a cal ghost loadout :P

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 956	Posted - 2014.07.22 15:00:00 - [41] - Quote Luis rules 1st wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Prob means the bonus plus the actual mod usage . The way you written it is one dampener. At the best could be double dampener. Triple.... still waiting for that sort of bug and make a cal ghost loadout :P IKR . I'm just guessing though , I was like " Hey that's not possible " .. but I had to think for a min at what could have been meant by that statement . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3666	Posted - 2014.07.22 16:09:00 - [42] - Quote Luis rules 1st wrote: Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Yep, my triple damp CalScout will be super OP. Wait! What!!?? How exactly are you gonna fit 3 (Three) dampeners in 2 (TWO) slots? Dampeners were low slots the last time I checked and Caldari scout has two, unless I missed something... Otherwise... I need to know that!! 2 damps and a Proto cloak. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Arcturis Vanguard Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 203	Posted - 2014.07.22 16:38:00 - [43] - Quote BlazeXYZ wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Poor CalScouts, getting nerfed. Now they will only be able to scan everything within 100 meters 24/7 and give everyone in their squad(and themselves) a super advantage. Not to mention they are gaining damps. Don't they have to stack precision enhancers to that know. There losing the precision bonus right, so how can they scan everything within 100 meters. I'm confused. The dampening bonus however is just random. That just saying the gallente scout has no role as a scout since caldari is given dampening. Your sorely mistaken by saying a galscout doesn't have a role... The galscout is still king of dampening while holding two low slots to be quicker then a calscout. They could tank more armor if they wanted. Hack faster then a calscout...as there are many, many more low slot modules then highs the gallente is still far superior to the calscout in terms of PC flexibility. Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
CRNWLLC Gangsta Gank 378	Posted - 2014.07.22 16:38:00 - [44] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: IF YOU ARE SKIMMING AT THIS POINT, STOP HERE AND READ THIS PART 3. Yes Scouts have advantages, but they also have some really key disadvantages that make them less effective at some things than others right? Of course! Today I played 5 matches, 4 of them were against full squads using all Caldari scouts. I ran my Proto Amarr Assault with a prof 5 Viziam to show them the pain. http://imgur.com/0XDBHw5 Oh wait, out of their entire squad only one of them had a single death? That's strange, when I spawned in I thought that Caldari scouts could easily be taken out with a few shots from a scrambler. huh Dude, to be completely fair, V-E-X is a total stomping kizzunt. 1.U.P (like Slayers Unite., before it) is a corp for tryhards. This turd tried recruiting me one time, even though I told him I didn't measure up to his corp's 4.5 weekly KDR requirement. Told me to join his "training" corp with a 20% tax!!!. XD ROFLOLOLOL!!!! He was in a corp channel telling everyone they should run proto--pretty easy for him to say when he's taking 30K - 60K/match from the noobs he's "training"! After stanking up the battlefield with his tryhard mangina, V-E-X gets together with duna and jenza to reenact scenes from Brokeback Mountain.
aaaasdff ertgfdd 162	Posted - 2014.07.22 17:12:00 - [45] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: IF YOU ARE SKIMMING AT THIS POINT, STOP HERE AND READ THIS PART 3. Yes Scouts have advantages, but they also have some really key disadvantages that make them less effective at some things than others right? Of course! Today I played 5 matches, 4 of them were against full squads using all Caldari scouts. I ran my Proto Amarr Assault with a prof 5 Viziam to show them the pain. http://imgur.com/0XDBHw5 Oh wait, out of their entire squad only one of them had a single death? That's strange, when I spawned in I thought that Caldari scouts could easily be taken out with a few shots from a scrambler. huh ______________________________________________________________________________________ The main disadvantages of the scout: Lower average HP values (The Caldari Assault can get 100 more shield compared to the scout) Only 6 H/L slots at proto (One more than the Sentinels, one less than assaults, but they do have two equipment) Alpha damage can be brutal (Can't take a sniper shot / PLC / Mass Driver easily like other suits) I just sat here for 30 minutes trying to figure out more but that's about it right there unfortunately. However, I started thinking about Destiny and how they balance the classes between 3 stats...let's do that for Dust really quick Armor: To put it simply, your total HP Recovery: How fast you can recover your HP after you have been hit Agility: Movement, strafe, air control, hump height...things like that. In Dust, Scouts have the best Recovery and Agility while having decent HP values Assaults have about medium everything Heavies are best in HP, medium recovery, and low agility Logistics have medium HP values, a bit higher recovery, but slightly low agility. To put simply, Scouts have two things they are best at, which is bad for balance. This is even more true of the Caldari Scout, which has even more things it is best at, as described in the first post. __________________________________________________________________________________________ 4. What are our solutions then? A. Swap recovery values for Scouts and Assaults. -Caldari Assaults have the best shield regen, Gallente Assaults have the best base armor regeneration. -Possibly reduce them a bit so that we don't have Amarr and Gallente shield recharge so high. -Scouts now have recovery values slightly higher than Logistics, but NEED to sacrifice HP modules if they want to have a fast recovery -Shield delay values should stay the same. Assaults are long delay fast recovery; scouts are short delay slow recovery. B. Reduce Base HP -If Scouts get max recovery and agility, they should be insanely easy to take out. -Still allows scouts to tank their suits if they want to, but reduces the effect -The best scouts will then become those that can flank and hide, -Discourages head to head engagements and encourages the use of e-war C. Decrease fitting capacity drastically, increase skill fitting reduction of cloaks, decrease fitting cost of e-war and hacking mods -Makes it more worth it to run a damp, range amp, or hack mod than a plate, also easier to fit. -Possible to fit 4 complex extenders and a proto weapon if you fit nothing else (or use cpu/pg mods in lows) -Cloaks will still be easy to fit, but you won't have a huge excess of fitting space if you don't use one. __________________________________________________________________________________________ Final Thoughts/TLDR: I want scouts to be competitive but I don't want them to be the best slayers in the game because their base stats tell them they are. I want scouts to be the best ones at being sneaky and getting kills while the player isn't paying attention rather than being able to dance with a heavy and win. I want it to be punishing for a scout to be detected. If I see a scout charging right at me, they should die quickly. If they decloak right in front of me it shouldn't take 10 seconds of direct hits to strip away their HP. They shouldn't be able to hide behind cover for 5 seconds and have their 450 shields back up. I want scouts to use e-war mods rather than HP mods, to be punished more (not less) for stacking shield extenders, to have a reason to use armor repairers and shield rechargers/energizers rather than relying on insanely high base recovery values built into the suit. To still have to use modules that relate to their skill bonuses... I want to be killed by high HP/fast regen slayer assaults, which I can dampen my suit against, that can't see me sneaking up on them, which I can destroy in my heavy if they get out of hand, which can't cloak and tank their suit at the same time. _________________________________________________________________________________________ Discussion time! What do YOU want scouts to be? I eagerly await your posts :D I like your post, it is thoughtful. You give to much credit to the Caldari though. The Gal with double damps has NO counter. Caldari does. Also as someone that owns and plays both scouts I can tel you that the Gal is a better slayer. Mainly because it can go unseen. In a fight, ewar is greater than ehp and dps, for one reason. If I start shooting a proto Sentinel in the back with my boundless cr hes dead before he turns around. I never loose any hp. This is most fights. I cant be seen, approach at the angle I choose,, attack without ever being noticed, recloak and repeat. Thats why scouts are slaying, kts the ability to get the complete drop on someone. Ttk is still fast enough that if I start shooting, you in the back you are dead, thats it. INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
aaaasdff ertgfdd 162	Posted - 2014.07.22 17:19:00 - [46] - Quote CRNWLLC wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: IF YOU ARE SKIMMING AT THIS POINT, STOP HERE AND READ THIS PART 3. Yes Scouts have advantages, but they also have some really key disadvantages that make them less effective at some things than others right? Of course! Today I played 5 matches, 4 of them were against full squads using all Caldari scouts. I ran my Proto Amarr Assault with a prof 5 Viziam to show them the pain. http://imgur.com/0XDBHw5 Oh wait, out of their entire squad only one of them had a single death? That's strange, when I spawned in I thought that Caldari scouts could easily be taken out with a few shots from a scrambler. huh Dude, to be completely fair, V-E-X is a total stomping kizzunt. 1.U.P (like Slayers Unite., before it) is a corp for tryhards. This turd tried recruiting me one time, even though I told him I didn't measure up to his corp's 4.5 weekly KDR requirement. Told me to join his "training" corp with a 20% tax!!!. XD ROFLOLOLOL!!!! He was in a corp channel telling everyone they should run proto--pretty easy for him to say when he's taking 30K - 60K/match from the noobs he's "training"! After stanking up the battlefield with his tryhard mangina, V-E-X gets together with duna and jenza to reenact scenes from Brokeback Mountain. Ya those scrubs tried recruiting me as well, I talked bad to that dude. Wasnt vex though. I hate corps that protostomp. Though im cool with some I will never join a corp that does it. Most do it when they play against scrubs. When they are the scrubs they take it off. As for that game, you got pub stomped. I seen a squad of AE do the same thing with Gal Scouts and Six Kins. Pub stomping is what it is, no matter the suit. Hell I went 60/0 this weekend in my gal for the event. No squad, no OBs. INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4240	Posted - 2014.07.22 21:00:00 - [47] - Quote Luis rules 1st wrote: Because it has too high total HP!? WTF!!!?? So stupid. First of all, you are complaining that the Caldari Scout has too much HP, but the truth is that Galente Scout could have even more. Armor plates cost less and gives a huge buff. Anything that is armor based can get higher numbers. And don't start complaining about the move penalty, shields have a delay penalty and are harder to fit than armor stuff. And you say I'M the idiot. Please stop, you're making a fool of yourself. Yeah sure you can stack 800 armor on a gallente assault but you lose all agility...essentially making the scout not a scout anymore, which is fine. However, you can't rep that 800 armor back if you stack it like that. Even if you use two plates and two repairers you only get about 400 armor on the scout, which is less than shields and still reps half as fast as the Caldari You have to sacrifice tank for recover on the gallente scout...something the Caldari doesn't need to do seeing as it has a whopping 50 shield recharge. Tell me the last time you saw someone using a shield recharger on their scout rather than an extender...there's just no reason to when your base is that high. Besides, It's not just the HP values, Caldari scouts have a shield delay (after the penalty) of only 3/5 seconds for regular/depleted. The base value for the assault is 5/6 with the penalty bringing the depleted value to 8. Yet if the Assault wants these kinds of values the scout gets it needs to run an energizer and two shield regulators. At that point you also need to run a complex cpu mod if you even want a chance at using a decent weapon or even an equipment. Then let's add the fact that the scout can cloak easily, can equip a proto weapon without sacrificing any modules, can also carry a second equipment, can run faster than any assault, has a smaller hitbox, has more stamina, has a lower base profile, has a larger base scan radius, has a lower base scan precision... Oh, and also gets dual bonuses to two e-war stats so that it doesn't actually have to use those modules and can run sprint mods, dampeners, or even armor plates in the lows instead. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ How is that NOT ***** OP? Please tell me how having THAT many advantages isn't breaking the game. The only solution is to make the Cal Scout very hard to tank so that they can't do everything at once. And even then it won't break the suit entirely just by limiting it. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!**
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1169	Posted - 2014.07.22 21:26:00 - [48] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: 4. What are our solutions then? A. Swap recovery values for Scouts and Assaults. -Caldari Assaults have the best shield regen, Gallente Assaults have the best base armor regeneration. -Possibly reduce them a bit so that we don't have Amarr and Gallente shield recharge so high. -Scouts now have recovery values slightly higher than Logistics, but NEED to sacrifice HP modules if they want to have a fast recovery -Shield delay values should stay the same. Assaults are long delay fast recovery; scouts are short delay slow recovery 4 A, please. Makes sense as scouts have the better ability to engage and disengage, for example in order to recover. Assaults, if they are wanted to be ones in the grinder slaying non-stop, then faster recovery suits them. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 755	Posted - 2014.07.22 21:46:00 - [49] - Quote It was tough to sort through all the BS responses in this thread but, OP, you are right about at least one thing. Scouts have too high of base regen. I believe this is the issue and it won't be fixed in Charlie, which I am upset about. I am truly tired of being out 1v1 in my assault suit by some douche in a cal scout. Sometimes I manage to kill them, other times they get me, but most of the time they use their stupidly high regen to recover absurd amounts of HP while wearing me down, eventually killing me. I have no problem being killed by a sneaky scout, but the scouts who think they are assaults (you know who you are) are just annoying and unfair. Question for all you scouts who argue you NEED high base regen. Why? 1. You are supposed to have lower hp so why do you need super regen stats? 2. You aren't supposed to take much damage, remember like eWar and speed and stealth etc. 3. If you still want high regen, fit modules like everyone else! What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Arcturis Vanguard Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 205	Posted - 2014.07.22 22:00:00 - [50] - Quote I skilled into calscout after the first hour of 1.8 launch because I was fuking tired of being shotgunned by a cloaked scout. Granted I was going to skill into a scout prior to 1.8 and was leaning towards amarr but the precision bonus was needed for those Damn clackers looking for those cheap kills for the Lulz. Granted I will make the calscout work wonderfully for PCs as I'm already building suits for new hot fix. It's not what I spent sp for as I would have went a different race with the new bonuses and what I want for PC.... Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR

Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4377	Posted - 2014.07.22 22:10:00 - [51] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: So here's the first question we need to ask: 1. Why did no one use the Scout role in the first place? Why were all the other roles a better choice? To quickly answer that, cloaks never existed for a long time. This made it easy to pick off scouts from a long distance away. They also had less HP than every other role and could be quickly eliminated. This was mainly due to their slot layout. It was almost impossible to tank a scout suit, making it very hard for a scout to survive head to head against any role. As for the other roles, speed and dampening was just a few modules on an assault or logi suit, and scanners could provide all the e-war info that medium frames needed with even bigger ranges than scouts. This is....bullshit for the most part. The cloak is not the quick answer to why, historically, scouts were rare. I say this because to this day I do not use cloaks. I agree with most of your post but I'm just picking on this one area because it shows misconception. Scouts weren't viable because: LOS scan was shared, Passive scanning range was small, eWar advantages were marginal, we had less slots, far less CPU/PG, active scans were blatantly overpowered. Tanking was a well kept secret. It was actually very effective to put a plate on a scout. Marauder, for one example, had been running a 700 HP scout since at least Uprising. Of course he was not the norm. Just pointing out the struggle of the scout and why we were continuously buffed, with the exception of the speed nerf..... Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1918	Posted - 2014.07.23 00:22:00 - [52] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: It was tough to sort through all the BS responses in this thread but, OP, you are right about at least one thing. Scouts have too high of base regen. I believe this is the issue and it won't be fixed in Charlie, which I am upset about. I am truly tired of being out 1v1 in my assault suit by some douche in a cal scout. Sometimes I manage to kill them, other times they get me, but most of the time they use their stupidly high regen to recover absurd amounts of HP while wearing me down, eventually killing me. I have no problem being killed by a sneaky scout, but the scouts who think they are assaults (you know who you are) are just annoying and unfair. Question for all you scouts who argue you NEED high base regen. Why? 1. You are supposed to have lower hp so why do you need super regen stats? 2. You aren't supposed to take much damage, remember like eWar and speed and stealth etc. 3. If you still want high regen, fit modules like everyone else! 1. I need super-regen stats because I have low HP. 2. I can't take much damage, at one time. Because I fit for EWAR and speed. 3. CPU/PG and slot layout put limitations on what I can fit, unless I consistently run proto. HP regen doesn not = EHP. It defines the damage I can take over time, not the damage I can take. If I can't regen quickly, I can't survive. With the expected changes to Assaults (+150EHP + additional slot + fitting buff), I think you'll find this is less of an issue. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2274319#post2274319 Knowledge is power
Unidentified Caldarian Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 214	Posted - 2014.07.23 01:50:00 - [53] - Quote Luis rules 1st wrote: Because it has too high total HP!? WTF!!!?? So stupid. First of all, you are complaining that the Caldari Scout has too much HP, but the truth is that Galente Scout could have even more. Armor plates cost less and gives a huge buff. Anything that is armor based can get higher numbers. And don't start complaining about the move penalty, shields have a delay penalty and are harder to fit than armor stuff. Yes but there are more weapons specializing in anti-armor than anti-shield. So the shields must be docked somehow because there are more weapons against armor than shield. Caldari Scout Nerf/Removal
2Berries Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 217	Posted - 2014.07.23 02:32:00 - [54] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: How is that NOT ******* OP? Please tell me how having THAT many advantages isn't breaking the game. Shields falls faster than prom date panties. So many weapons can deplete your shields in a single shot the only thing it really gives you is a chance to react. From a full deplete, shield rechargers take long enough for retreats to be a challenge. There is only one weapon that can do to armor what flux/scramblers/snipers do to shields in the same amont of time. The forge gun, it treats all scouts the same. Burning through clones like Rusty Venture.
JP Acuna Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 218	Posted - 2014.07.23 03:23:00 - [55] - Quote Totally agree. My Gal-scout has 84 shields, ~250 armor. Built for ewar and speed. I get hatemail about me being a coward because i attack from behind or because "needs a cloak 2 kill". I don't even kill that much, but people get offended if i hunt properly and don't attack them head on. Personally I feel offended when i see people exploit the suit and spit at the face of real assaults AND real scouts with their broken fits. I always thought the Caldari scout was OP AF. Everybody was complaining on the Gallente scout being OP due to dampening, which was dumb (you explained it so well in one line) but still got this suit severely nerfed. A Caldari scout shouldn't scan a Galscout lvl 3 or higher cloaked while tanking 450 shields... higher than armor in my Gal-assault!!. AT LEAST that's being addressed in Hotfix Charlie, thank gawd!
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1241	Posted - 2014.07.23 04:18:00 - [56] - Quote Shayz, Do you run a Cal Scout? From your post, I get the sense you don't, but I'm curious how someone could have such a strong opinion if they didn't run the suit. FWIW, I do run the suit and have since 1.8. I think most of your issues are really scout related rather than Cal Scout related. It needs some balancing, but I'm not sure the broad brush nerfs you suggest are warranted, or if they are, many should be applied to other scouts. I also agree with others that the Gal Scout is problematic on several fronts, and is the anti Cal Scout in all ways -- its an easy counter, TBH. Personally, I'm waiting on Charlie to see what happens there before calling for anything. Clearly CCP has their eye on this already....Leadfoot p.s. if that squad of ex-NS players pictured in your example were in any suit they want, they still would have dominated that round against you + 15 blueberries. Those guys in that squad are good -- they stick together and play well as a squad.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1111	Posted - 2014.07.23 04:31:00 - [57] - Quote I think hell's gonna freeze over but for once I agree with Shayz. PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8. That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6667	Posted - 2014.07.23 04:54:00 - [58] - Quote CCP loves their Caldari. see you space cowboy...
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 927	Posted - 2014.07.23 07:00:00 - [59] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Shayz Read the entire post; agreed with many of your points. As Broker pointed out earlier, we've reached out to the Devs in hopes of seeing some of these issues resolved. The central theme of our proposal is efficacy bonuses. We believe that "slayer" Scouts should leave behind their scout-perks when they tank up and pretend to be Assaults. By replacing base bonuses with their equivalent in efficacy bonuses, we believe we'd see an increase in ewar module usage (and a decrease in hp tank). 600+ HP Scouts are a joke; they should be the exception, not the norm. We hope to see fewer of these abominations come Charlie; with luck, the ham-fisted slayer crowd will migrate to the Assault frame. Should they linger, we look forward to implementation of efficacy bonuses come Delta. All that to say, the Scout Community agrees with a number of your assessments and has been working collectively toward seeing these issues resolved. Yatta yatta. While I'm here .... aren't you an uber-logi? Seeing as Scouts are doing their part, perhaps you can talk sense to some of your Heavy friends? They're a 'bit spam-sandwiched these days, and they are quite sensitive about it. At least when we bring up the issue. Maybe you'll have better luck :-) ok fair enuf i run heavy as my second role and yes its OP. to fix the heavy you need to turn the fire rate of the HMG back down to were it used to be or buff all the rifles back to were they used to be. the reason the heavy became OP is a couple patchs ago they nerfed all the rifles but didn't nerf the HMG so this needs to be looked at and balanced. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Emerald Bellerophon Nenikekamen 128	Posted - 2014.07.23 07:39:00 - [60] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: IMPORTANT: 1. Why did no one use the Scout role in the first place? Why were all the other roles a better choice? I used scouts awesomely in Chromosome. This was before CCP shat in the mouth of passive scanning. Somehow, now, every time I think of this game, I think of the scrumptious taste of poo. When did that ever start? I-Shayz-I wrote: IMPORTANT: To quickly answer that, cloaks never existed for a long time. This made it easy to pick off scouts from a long distance away. They also had less HP than every other role and could be quickly eliminated. ** that. I existed for a long time. I existed using scouts. I entirely lost faith in CCP's ability to balance anything ever as soon as I learned that they would introduce cloaks. This is an unconscionable crutch for a class of suits that didn't need it at all because they worked properly to begin with. What a joke that CCP was selling 'Hunter Scouts' for Aurum while they entirely broke that role. I haven't played since. I-Shayz-I wrote: IMPORTANT: Why are scouts now fulfilling a slayer class? Because CCP. I-Shayz-I wrote: IMPORTANT: The buff to scouts was a good thing. It made the class playable after so long and we immediately saw more players using scouts. It also diversified the fittings of a scout. Before, the slot layouts really limited the Minmatar and Gallente scouts as to what they could do. Before, Minmatar and Gallente scours were all that existed. [sigh] Anyone else know that one quote by George Santayana...? I-Shayz-I wrote: IMPORTANT: The Caldari Scout was introduced with huge advantages in its base stats. All other suits in the game need to use modules to get to these sorts of stats, whereas the Caldari Scout was essentially given free modules BUILT INTO the suit. Go go CCP balancing! Right... their own ***** game...

Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 176	Posted - 2014.07.23 08:11:00 - [61] - Quote Simple fixes: Cloak up, shields down AND/OR Profile is proportional to eHP. So if you are really solid or sending out a lot of EM due to shields you shine really brightly. ALSO Make your passive scan range see big profiles further out ie if you can see 17.5dB at 24m you can see 35dB at 48m, 70db at 96m and 150dB at 192m... ie you can see a tank or a turret much further out on your tacnet then a dampened scout. Making eWar more useful should drop tanking. Not One Lifetime
pegasis prime PROTO WOLVES 1815	Posted - 2014.07.23 08:23:00 - [62] - Quote Venerable Phage wrote: Simple fixes: Cloak up, shields down AND/OR Profile is proportional to eHP. So if you are really solid or sending out a lot of EM due to shields you shine really brightly. ALSO Make your passive scan range see big profiles further out ie if you can see 17.5dB at 24m you can see 35dB at 48m, 70db at 96m and 150dB at 192m... ie you can see a tank or a turret much further out on your tacnet then a dampened scout. Making eWar more useful should drop tanking. Cloak up shields down eh how about no. Just no this only favours armour tankers. My ewar cal scout only has 160 shields and 80 armour and you want to nerf it into non existence. Proud Gunlogi pilot and forge gunner since August 2012. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 176	Posted - 2014.07.23 09:43:00 - [63] - Quote Well I play eWar scouts who generally have less then 200 eHP so no pain for me :) But have it as a conversion so the stronger your shields the stronger your cloak both in bleed off (how long it lasts as a function of shield HP) and the other shield modules effecting dampening. Not One Lifetime
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1513	Posted - 2014.07.23 12:10:00 - [64] - Quote Venerable Phage wrote: Make your passive scan range see big profiles further out ie if you can see 17.5dB at 24m you can see 35dB at 48m, 70db at 96m and 150dB at 192m... ie you can see a tank or a turret much further out on your tacnet then a dampened scout. Making eWar more useful should drop tanking. This!! It is ludicrous that I can be engaging a group of Infantry, and get killed from 5m away by the 80gj Neutron Blaster Madrugar that just rolled up behind me, completely invisible. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
aaaasdff ertgfdd 166	Posted - 2014.07.23 12:50:00 - [65] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Venerable Phage wrote: Make your passive scan range see big profiles further out ie if you can see 17.5dB at 24m you can see 35dB at 48m, 70db at 96m and 150dB at 192m... ie you can see a tank or a turret much further out on your tacnet then a dampened scout. Making eWar more useful should drop tanking. This!! It is ludicrous that I can be engaging a group of Infantry, and get killed from 5m away by the 80gj Neutron Blaster Madrugar that just rolled up behind me, completely invisible. Not saying you are wrong, but you can HEAR that tank, from a long ways away. In these turtle beaches you can even tell the direction hes approaching from. INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
aaaasdff ertgfdd 166	Posted - 2014.07.23 12:54:00 - [66] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Shayz Read the entire post; agreed with many of your points. As Broker pointed out earlier, we've reached out to the Devs in hopes of seeing some of these issues resolved. The central theme of our proposal is efficacy bonuses. We believe that "slayer" Scouts should leave behind their scout-perks when they tank up and pretend to be Assaults. By replacing base bonuses with their equivalent in efficacy bonuses, we believe we'd see an increase in ewar module usage (and a decrease in hp tank). 600+ HP Scouts are a joke; they should be the exception, not the norm. We hope to see fewer of these abominations come Charlie; with luck, the ham-fisted slayer crowd will migrate to the Assault frame. Should they linger, we look forward to implementation of efficacy bonuses come Delta. All that to say, the Scout Community agrees with a number of your assessments and has been working collectively toward seeing these issues resolved. Yatta yatta. While I'm here .... aren't you an uber-logi? Seeing as Scouts are doing their part, perhaps you can talk sense to some of your Heavy friends? They're a 'bit spam-sandwiched these days, and they are quite sensitive about it. At least when we bring up the issue. Maybe you'll have better luck :-) I still contend ehp is not the issue and making them sacrifice ehp will not fix the issue. INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
Master Jaraiya Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1513	Posted - 2014.07.23 13:27:00 - [67] - Quote aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Venerable Phage wrote: Make your passive scan range see big profiles further out ie if you can see 17.5dB at 24m you can see 35dB at 48m, 70db at 96m and 150dB at 192m... ie you can see a tank or a turret much further out on your tacnet then a dampened scout. Making eWar more useful should drop tanking. This!! It is ludicrous that I can be engaging a group of Infantry, and get killed from 5m away by the 80gj Neutron Blaster Madrugar that just rolled up behind me, completely invisible. Not saying you are wrong, but you can HEAR that tank, from a long ways away. In these turtle beaches you can even tell the direction hes approaching from. Yea, not everyone has turtle beaches, and sometimes (allthefreakingtime) I can hear nothing except explosives/gunfire Also, when there are 3 or 4 tanks on each team on the field at any one time, hearing doesn't really do a bit of good. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5713	Posted - 2014.07.23 14:13:00 - [68] - Quote They're already getting nerfed next hotfix, the precision bonus is getting removed. pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4266	Posted - 2014.07.23 14:18:00 - [69] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: They're already getting nerfed next hotfix, the precision bonus is getting removed. Everyone keeps saying this is a nerf Yet all this does is make it so that Gallente scouts are more effective against sneaking up on these suits. They still have the 50 hp/s regen yes? They can still tank 450 shield yes? They can still do everything better than an assault with base stats yes? 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3172	Posted - 2014.07.23 14:20:00 - [70] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: They can still do everything better than an assault with base stats yes? Have you seen the Rattati's most recent Assault changes? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley

Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 761	Posted - 2014.07.23 14:57:00 - [71] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Boot Booter wrote: It was tough to sort through all the BS responses in this thread but, OP, you are right about at least one thing. Scouts have too high of base regen. I believe this is the issue and it won't be fixed in Charlie, which I am upset about. I am truly tired of being out 1v1 in my assault suit by some douche in a cal scout. Sometimes I manage to kill them, other times they get me, but most of the time they use their stupidly high regen to recover absurd amounts of HP while wearing me down, eventually killing me. I have no problem being killed by a sneaky scout, but the scouts who think they are assaults (you know who you are) are just annoying and unfair. Question for all you scouts who argue you NEED high base regen. Why? 1. You are supposed to have lower hp so why do you need super regen stats? 2. You aren't supposed to take much damage, remember like eWar and speed and stealth etc. 3. If you still want high regen, fit modules like everyone else! 1. I need super-regen stats because I have low HP. 2. I can't take much damage, at one time. Because I fit for EWAR and speed. 3. CPU/PG and slot layout put limitations on what I can fit, unless I consistently run proto. HP regen doesn not = EHP. It defines the damage I can take over time, not the damage I can take. If I can't regen quickly, I can't survive. With the expected changes to Assaults (+150EHP + additional slot + fitting buff), I think you'll find this is less of an issue. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2274319#post2274319 This is directed at cal scout particularly. 1. Having super regen promotes you to stack hp. 2. If you fit for eWar and speed you shouldn't be taking Any damage. If you do, you're eWar and speed helps you avoid while you regen (which should take longer than it currently does) 3. Don't even talk about CPU and PG limitations or slot counts. Assaults especially shield tankers are almost always forced to fit energizers to keep up. My min assault fits a complex shield energizer at 96 CPU to get to 42 hp/s. Still less than the cal scout. Oh and to do this I have to fit a CPU mod. Oh yeah and then a regulator to sorta come close to your base delays. Now I have 4 high slots left and the scout still has better regen, eWar, hit box, strafe, 2 equipments... Etc. Should I fit another energizer? Oh wait now you have more eHP. I know about the buff. I'm not so sure another 150 hp and upgrading a few modules to pro will stop slayer assault scouts. Hopefully with the bonus changes, other scouts will keep the cal in line. The amarr has a much slower strafe, so it shouldn't be dominating people 1v1 head up. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Luis rules 1st Valor Coalition Red Whines. 35	Posted - 2014.07.23 18:32:00 - [72] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: 2 damps and a Proto cloak. Well... somehow that makes sense. But the cloak can't last forever, so it's not reliable 24/7 I-Shayz-I wrote: And you say I'M the idiot. Please stop, you're making a fool of yourself. Yeah sure you can stack 800 armor on a gallente assault but you lose all agility...essentially making the scout not a scout anymore, which is fine. However, you can't rep that 800 armor back if you stack it like that. Even if you use two plates and two repairers you only get about 400 armor on the scout, which is less than shields and still reps half as fast as the Caldari You have to sacrifice tank for recover on the gallente scout...something the Caldari doesn't need to do seeing as it has a whopping 50 shield recharge. Tell me the last time you saw someone using a shield recharger on their scout rather than an extender...there's just no reason to when your base is that high. Besides, It's not just the HP values, Caldari scouts have a shield delay (after the penalty) of only 3/5 seconds for regular/depleted. The base value for the assault is 5/6 with the penalty bringing the depleted value to 8. Yet if the Assault wants these kinds of values the scout gets it needs to run an energizer and two shield regulators. At that point you also need to run a complex cpu mod if you even want a chance at using a decent weapon or even an equipment. Then let's add the fact that the scout can cloak easily, can equip a proto weapon without sacrificing any modules, can also carry a second equipment, can run faster than any assault, has a smaller hitbox, has more stamina, has a lower base profile, has a larger base scan radius, has a lower base scan precision... Oh, and also gets dual bonuses to two e-war stats so that it doesn't actually have to use those modules and can run sprint mods, dampeners, or even armor plates in the lows instead. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ How is that NOT ***** OP? Please tell me how having THAT many advantages isn't breaking the game. The only solution is to make the Cal Scout very hard to tank so that they can't do everything at once. And even then it won't break the suit entirely just by limiting it. Missing a few key points. Armor can be regen by nanohives and by armor repair tools. Now, 800 on the assault? We're not talking about assaults here, I believe (I'm not trying to make you look like a fool. You are what you are, period) 756 armor on Gallente scout that can be repaired by other means, but with a built in repair of 3HP/s (With four plates). Two plates and two reps? Armor is about 459 and the rep is about 22. Maybe not being repaired at the same speed, but that can be repaired by other means and even more important, CONSTANT repair. Without delay or anything. And, don't leave gal shield aside, since it has a repair of 30 per second with 4 secs for shield recharge delay and 6 secs for depleted delay. Caldari armor being repaired at.... almost close to nothing, on the other side. Caldari scout vs Caldari assault? again, don't compare different classes. At the end, Assaults need a buff, end of story. It's logical IN EVERY WAY that a scout has more "proto weapon, second slot, stamina, base profile, etc". Check EvE as well, it's the same deal! Smaller ships, like frigates, tend to be faster, low signal to radius, greater agility than any other ship, but of course, way lower HP. About the rest, I'll just say that you haven't used the suit, ergo, you don't know what you are talking about. Usually I use 3 complex shield extenders, 1 complex scanner enhancer, 1 boundless CR (Lower CPU/PG requirements), 1 Ishukone ASMG, 1 compact nanohive, 1 advanced cloak, 1 complex reactive plate and 1 complex shield regulator. I'd like to see ya fitting everything complex, as you may think, in a scout. You just can't fit everything complex in any scout. I have Gallente and Caldari, so I know what I'm talking about. About the so called ewar bonuses, it was intended to be a gallente scout hunter. Ergo, it needs to be able to see that scout. How? Sacrificing almost all his HP with scanner enhancers. Remember as well that Gallente is the enemy of Caldari. Unidentified Caldarian wrote:** Yes but there are more weapons specializing in anti-armor than anti-shield. So the shields must be docked somehow because there are more weapons against armor than shield. Wait wait, say that again? I'll list the weapons I remember and the effectiveness and actual numbers inside parenthesis (Shield/Armor). Note this is as far as I remember and they could be wrong Heavy weapons Forge gun - It doesn't matter, either way UR dead with one shot. But it's armor Heavy machine gun - Armor (95 /110) Light weapons Assault rifle - Shield (110/90) Scrambler rifle - Shield (120/80) Combat rifle - Armor (95/110) Rail rifle - Armor (90/110) Shotgun - Shield (110/90) Plasma cannon - Shield (110/90) (But one shot you are dead either way) Laser rifle - Shield (120/80) Sniper rifle - Armor (90/110) Mass driver - Armor (80/120) Sawrm launcher - Armor (80/120) But this doesn't count as well Side arms Nova knifes - Equal (100/100) Scrambler pistol - Shield (120/80) With headshot bonus of 450%, which is an instant dead for most shield users. Ion pistol - Shield (110/90) low users Bolt pistol - Armor (90/110) But almost NO one uses it Flylock - Armor (80/120) But again, almost no one uses it Sub Machine Gun - Armor (95/110) Magsec SMG- Armor (90/110) Now, yeah, heavy and side have more armor than shield, but in light are either equal or shield are a greater threat, since they are more often used.
Guiltless D667 58	Posted - 2014.07.23 20:59:00 - [73] - Quote Why dont you talk about cal scouts through tiers and not just proto?Your solutions are going to make the suit bad to use though lower tiers if those went through,like when CCP took the CPU way from cal logis(ALL of them) when in actuality they just needed to touch the proto but gimped all the others in the process. A Strange Game. Crysis 514
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 5456	Posted - 2014.07.23 21:51:00 - [74] - Quote ITs a very detailed post Shays. But i will respectfully Disagree. Something with so many counters cannot be considered OP. OP is something that gives you a natural advantage over your enemies, so much taht it can only be coutnered with TEAMWORK.( like tanks were for a while) Cal Scouts are not even close to OP. Sure they might seem OP when a Squad is using them as Radar... but they ARE really squishy. So much i kill them with Scrambler pistols. They CAN be coutnered with Good dampening (specially because the Cal scout you are mentioning is the TANKED cal scout not the E-War one, that packs like 220 shields XD) Im sorry you had to fight cal scouts so much,but in my case i have seen like 5 since they came out. I dont really think they are OP NOR FOTM. Whats OP is Shared Passive Scans and should go. I stand my point.Cal scouts are not op. On other notes, scouts need NO NERF. Med frames need buff. Stealth Storm
Luis rules 1st Valor Coalition Red Whines. 36	Posted - 2014.07.23 22:34:00 - [75] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: ITs a very detailed post Shays. But i will respectfully Disagree. Something with so many counters cannot be considered OP. OP is something that gives you a natural advantage over your enemies, so much taht it can only be coutnered with TEAMWORK.( like tanks were for a while) Cal Scouts are not even close to OP. Sure they might seem OP when a Squad is using them as Radar... but they ARE really squishy. So much i kill them with Scrambler pistols. They CAN be coutnered with Good dampening (specially because the Cal scout you are mentioning is the TANKED cal scout not the E-War one, that packs like 220 shields XD) Im sorry you had to fight cal scouts so much,but in my case i have seen like 5 since they came out. I dont really think they are OP NOR FOTM. Whats OP is Shared Passive Scans and should go. I stand my point.Cal scouts are not op. On other notes, scouts need NO NERF. Med frames need buff. Truth has been spoken... Lasers and scrambler destroy Caldari scouts. And about ewar, come on, it was intended to be like that. IMO It's like if I ask for active scanners not to be shared as well. About squishy, every scout should be like that n.n And agree as well, Assault need a buff. Their job can be done either with a Scout or with a Commando, and it shouldn't be like that.
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4272	Posted - 2014.07.24 01:03:00 - [76] - Quote For those that think I don't use the suit... I have an alt character which I use to test all Caldari suits. It has almost 20 million sp and all relevant skills needed. Sure it doesn't have EVERYTHING maxed out, but the majority of base skills needed to properly use a suit competitively are there. I first ran the advanced Caldari scout on that character to test the hit detection issue people were complaining about. I found that it was much easier to dodge shots in this suit compared to my Gallente scout. Sometimes I was even able to dodge long enough that my shields would actually start regenerating. The kill counts I was getting running solo were not super great. I could maybe get 20 easily, but that didn't prove anything as I was still dying 4 or 5 times. Then I skill into proto and am able to finally tank that last shield extender. My first match? 43/2 Thinking this was a fluke I did it again 37/1 At that point I literally felt the cheapness It was too easy to sit there behind cover for 5 seconds to let my shields come back to full. I had a complex damp on so that no one could see me, No one could kill me as I was running up to them even when iI'm obviously in their lline of sight with the cloak. In fact sometimes I'd recharge back to full shields as I'm charging at them because they just can't seem to deal damage to me. I thought "well maybe it's just that I'm not running into any good scouts or laser weapon users" Nope, cause even scramblers just couldn't deal enough damage to me. You'd think that 400-450 shield isn't that much, but when the scout can out-strafe your shots to where only half of them land, the scout's effective HP becomes more like 800-900 shield. Even if someone did manage to get a large portion of my shields down, I'd just cloak and regen it all back before my cloak disappears. But the craziest part about the whole thing was how I felt like there was no reason to use e-war mods. I really could see anything and everything. Yeah I used a damp, but I felt like precision mods were a waste of time. Why? Because the only thing a precision mod lets me do is see gallente scouts... So there was no reason NOT to tank my suit with shields unless I happened to run into a gallente scout that kept killing me because I couldn't passively scan him. But here's the best part There were a few scouts I ran into like this, but none of them could take out my 400+ shields before I killed them. I would usually survive the first shotgun blast (or dodge it entirely because lolhitdetection on calscout), and then have enough time to react to either run away and regen or shoot them in the face. Very rarely would I die by this. I can imagine it happening more in PC, but that means this game is not Dust 514 but SCOUT 514, where the only way to counter a competitve thing is by balancing it around the other competitive thing, which in this case is Gal vs Cal scout. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 5469	Posted - 2014.07.24 01:13:00 - [77] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: text. ''But the craziest part about the whole thing was how I felt like there was no reason to use e-war mods. I really could see anything and everything. Yeah I used a damp, but I felt like precision mods were a waste of time. Why? Because the only thing a precision mod lets me do is see gallente scouts...'' But gallente scouts ARE the great mayority of scouts. NOT TO MENTION that most good scouts run one or two profile dampeners too.... Regardless of SKILL, with my proto gal you wouldn't stand a chance: 2 x Precision mods 2x Prof Damps 1x Range AMp 1x Complex Reactive plate Duvolle or ISHI SMG/ToxinSMG/Thukker Contact nades. I would see you all the time, you wouldnt see me and believe me, 450 shields is not a lot when your Armor is at 87.... The thing is you are talking about the TANKED CAL SCOUT, the real threat is the E-war Cal scout.not the tanked one. When has anyone said after most racial suits came out: OMG i cannot kill this 600 HP med frame OMG WTH....Never. And regarding the small hitbox of the cal scout? meaningless, with how strong AA is right now i can basically spray and pray with my Duvolle and you'd be out in seconds... 3cx precision enhancers and 1cx range amp proto cal scout is the real terror i think... I think: ...you are confusing a suit that fits your playstyle with an OP suit. Again ,if it was so OP, most people would be running around with it instead of the Gal scout... ''I can imagine it happening more in PC, but that means this game is not Dust 514 but SCOUT 514, where the only way to counter a competitve thing is by balancing it around the other competitive thing, which in this case is Gal vs Cal scout'' My friend , WRONG again. the best counter to scouts are Passive scanning,Ative scanning and SENTINELS. They have enough EHP to survive the first initial attack and any HMG has enough ROF to accurately spray and pray and kill you in a matter of a second. Again, i disrespectfully disagree with you. I cannot see the problem you are seeing. sorry. Stealth Storm
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12163	Posted - 2014.07.24 01:22:00 - [78] - Quote Luis rules 1st wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: ITs a very detailed post Shays. But i will respectfully Disagree. Something with so many counters cannot be considered OP. OP is something that gives you a natural advantage over your enemies, so much taht it can only be coutnered with TEAMWORK.( like tanks were for a while) Cal Scouts are not even close to OP. Sure they might seem OP when a Squad is using them as Radar... but they ARE really squishy. So much i kill them with Scrambler pistols. They CAN be coutnered with Good dampening (specially because the Cal scout you are mentioning is the TANKED cal scout not the E-War one, that packs like 220 shields XD) Im sorry you had to fight cal scouts so much,but in my case i have seen like 5 since they came out. I dont really think they are OP NOR FOTM. Whats OP is Shared Passive Scans and should go. I stand my point.Cal scouts are not op. On other notes, scouts need NO NERF. Med frames need buff. Truth has been spoken... Lasers and scrambler destroy Caldari scouts. And about ewar, come on, it was intended to be like that. IMO It's like if I ask for active scanners not to be shared as well. About squishy, every scout should be like that n.n And agree as well, Assault need a buff. Their job can be done either with a Scout or with a Commando, and it shouldn't be like that. Thats only if you can hit them. I'm a fair shot with the ScR, LR, and AScR and have been using them for months now. I took a Proto Amarr Commando up against a Cal Scout, between his Six Kin dish out 1033 damage over the course of the engagement which lasted about 3 seconds he strafed between and shield flared though the 63 AScR shots I got off, and was regenerating when he popped out of cover to finish me at an insane pace. I certainly have a hard time with it compared to most other scouts. "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 5470	Posted - 2014.07.24 01:31:00 - [79] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Luis rules 1st wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: ITs a very detailed post Shays. But i will respectfully Disagree. Something with so many counters cannot be considered OP. OP is something that gives you a natural advantage over your enemies, so much taht it can only be coutnered with TEAMWORK.( like tanks were for a while) Cal Scouts are not even close to OP. Sure they might seem OP when a Squad is using them as Radar... but they ARE really squishy. So much i kill them with Scrambler pistols. They CAN be coutnered with Good dampening (specially because the Cal scout you are mentioning is the TANKED cal scout not the E-War one, that packs like 220 shields XD) Im sorry you had to fight cal scouts so much,but in my case i have seen like 5 since they came out. I dont really think they are OP NOR FOTM. Whats OP is Shared Passive Scans and should go. I stand my point.Cal scouts are not op. On other notes, scouts need NO NERF. Med frames need buff. Truth has been spoken... Lasers and scrambler destroy Caldari scouts. And about ewar, come on, it was intended to be like that. IMO It's like if I ask for active scanners not to be shared as well. About squishy, every scout should be like that n.n And agree as well, Assault need a buff. Their job can be done either with a Scout or with a Commando, and it shouldn't be like that. Thats only if you can hit them. I'm a fair shot with the ScR, LR, and AScR and have been using them for months now. I took a Proto Amarr Commando up against a Cal Scout, between his Six Kin dish out 1033 damage over the course of the engagement which lasted about 3 seconds he strafed between and shield flared though the 63 AScR shots I got off, and was regenerating when he popped out of cover to finish me at an insane pace. I certainly have a hard time with it compared to most other scouts. With all due respect adamance, and this is NOT skill related. BUT YOU WERE A COMMANDO. What did you expect, he didnt even HAVE to AIm, just spray and pray at a heavy without resistances..... Doesnt prove the suit is OVERPOWERED.i mean,any scout can do that vs a lone Commando with enough skill... Stealth Storm
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12163	Posted - 2014.07.24 01:42:00 - [80] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: True Adamance wrote: Luis rules 1st wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: ITs a very detailed post Shays. But i will respectfully Disagree. Something with so many counters cannot be considered OP. OP is something that gives you a natural advantage over your enemies, so much taht it can only be coutnered with TEAMWORK.( like tanks were for a while) Cal Scouts are not even close to OP. Sure they might seem OP when a Squad is using them as Radar... but they ARE really squishy. So much i kill them with Scrambler pistols. They CAN be coutnered with Good dampening (specially because the Cal scout you are mentioning is the TANKED cal scout not the E-War one, that packs like 220 shields XD) Im sorry you had to fight cal scouts so much,but in my case i have seen like 5 since they came out. I dont really think they are OP NOR FOTM. Whats OP is Shared Passive Scans and should go. I stand my point.Cal scouts are not op. On other notes, scouts need NO NERF. Med frames need buff. Truth has been spoken... Lasers and scrambler destroy Caldari scouts. And about ewar, come on, it was intended to be like that. IMO It's like if I ask for active scanners not to be shared as well. About squishy, every scout should be like that n.n And agree as well, Assault need a buff. Their job can be done either with a Scout or with a Commando, and it shouldn't be like that. Thats only if you can hit them. I'm a fair shot with the ScR, LR, and AScR and have been using them for months now. I took a Proto Amarr Commando up against a Cal Scout, between his Six Kin dish out 1033 damage over the course of the engagement which lasted about 3 seconds he strafed between and shield flared though the 63 AScR shots I got off, and was regenerating when he popped out of cover to finish me at an insane pace. I certainly have a hard time with it compared to most other scouts. With all due respect adamance, and this is NOT skill related. BUT YOU WERE A COMMANDO. What did you expect, he didnt even HAVE to AIm, just spray and pray at a heavy without resistances..... Doesnt prove the suit is OVERPOWERED.i mean,any scout can do that vs a lone Commando with enough skill... No I merely meant to imply the a direct combat suit was unable to directly confront a primarily recon suit type.... additionally in terms of me being a fair shot I have extreme trouble applying damage to them as compared to the other 3 racial scouts..... all of this while being stated as anecdotal evidence and not to be misconstrued as me mistaking it for empirical evidence. "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon

KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 5471	Posted - 2014.07.24 01:48:00 - [81] - Quote True Adamance wrote: No I merely meant to imply the a direct combat suit was unable to directly confront a primarily recon suit type.... additionally in terms of me being a fair shot I have extreme trouble applying damage to them as compared to the other 3 racial scouts..... all of this while being stated as anecdotal evidence and not to be misconstrued as me mistaking it for empirical evidence. What i get from this thread is: GÖª The Cal scout might have a hitbox issue GÖª Passive Scanning breaks scouts i still dont think the cal scout is OVERPOWERED thou... Stealth Storm
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12163	Posted - 2014.07.24 01:51:00 - [82] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: True Adamance wrote: No I merely meant to imply the a direct combat suit was unable to directly confront a primarily recon suit type.... additionally in terms of me being a fair shot I have extreme trouble applying damage to them as compared to the other 3 racial scouts..... all of this while being stated as anecdotal evidence and not to be misconstrued as me mistaking it for empirical evidence. What i get from this thread is: GÖª The Cal scout might have a hitbox issue GÖª Passive Scanning breaks scouts i still dont think the cal scout is OVERPOWERED thou... Oh no its not stat wise and probably not gameplay wise..... but there is something about it right now that just.......... I don't even know. "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1953	Posted - 2014.07.24 01:58:00 - [83] - Quote True Adamance wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: True Adamance wrote: No I merely meant to imply the a direct combat suit was unable to directly confront a primarily recon suit type.... additionally in terms of me being a fair shot I have extreme trouble applying damage to them as compared to the other 3 racial scouts..... all of this while being stated as anecdotal evidence and not to be misconstrued as me mistaking it for empirical evidence. What i get from this thread is: GÖª The Cal scout might have a hitbox issue GÖª Passive Scanning breaks scouts i still dont think the cal scout is OVERPOWERED thou... Oh no its not stat wise and probably not gameplay wise..... but there is something about it right now that just.......... I don't even know. It's the vibe? Knowledge is power
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4272	Posted - 2014.07.24 02:04:00 - [84] - Quote True Adamance wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: What i get from this thread is: GÖª The Cal scout might have a hitbox issue GÖª Passive Scanning breaks scouts i still dont think the cal scout is OVERPOWERED thou... Oh no its not stat wise and probably not gameplay wise..... but there is something about it right now that just.......... I don't even know. Possibly the fact that taking out 450 shields on a cal scout looks like you only took out half of their hp? (since there's still a full armor bar left) 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
iKILLu osborne WarRavens Final Resolution. 108	Posted - 2014.07.24 02:56:00 - [85] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: They're already getting nerfed next hotfix, the precision bonus is getting removed. Everyone keeps saying this is a nerf Yet all this does is make it so that Gallente scouts are more effective against sneaking up on these suits. They still have the 50 hp/s regen yes? They can still tank 450 shield yes? They can still do everything better than an assault with base stats yes? oh stfu every match i see you play you go 20+/5-, your trying to nerf cal scout into non existence. If your suggestions were implemented there be no specialty left to the cal scouts name. To tell the truth i think your a butthurt little bltch thats only competition is cal scout, get guud or go play cod "uh guys" "i got to go back to the mcc those 10 ads's made me crap my dropsuit"
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4272	Posted - 2014.07.24 04:07:00 - [86] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: To tell the truth i think your a butthurt little bltch thats only competition is cal scout, get guud or go play cod Exactly My only competition is the cal scout Because it's better than every other suit in the game. I can use: Proto Amarr Sentinel Proto Amarr Commando Proto Amarr Assault Proto Gallene Scout Proto Minmatar Sentinel Proto Minmatar Commando Proto Minmatar Logi Proto Minmatar Assault And even if I use a proto Amarr Assault, armor tanked, with a prof 5 viziam scrambler (A huge advantage against the Caldari Scout)...I might be able to take out any shield based suit (even 800 shield Caldari Sentinels with ease), but the Caldari Scout manages to win almost every time against me. Why? Please tell me why I can take out proto suits all day long, but when I run into a proto Caldari Scout I can never even scratch their armor. No matter the suit, no matter the weapon, no matter the strategy... the Caldari scout always wins against me and I finally got pissed off enough one day to actually make this post. Squad of proto sentinels? I run in with RE's and a shotgun to wipe the floor with them. Squad of proto gal scouts? Mass Drivers, Scramblers, precision mods, and scanners. Squad of proto Caldari Scouts? Nothing I can do. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Unidentified Caldarian Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 216	Posted - 2014.07.24 04:53:00 - [87] - Quote Luis rules 1st wrote: Unidentified Caldarian wrote: Yes but there are more weapons specializing in anti-armor than anti-shield. So the shields must be docked somehow because there are more weapons against armor than shield. Wait wait, say that again? I'll list the weapons I remember and the effectiveness and actual numbers inside parenthesis (Shield/Armor). Note this is as far as I remember and they could be wrong Heavy weapons Forge gun - It doesn't matter, either way UR dead with one shot. But it's armor Heavy machine gun - Armor (95 /110) Light weapons Assault rifle - Shield (110/90) Scrambler rifle - Shield (120/80) Combat rifle - Armor (95/110) Rail rifle - Armor (90/110) Shotgun - Shield (110/90) Plasma cannon - Shield (110/90) (But one shot you are dead either way) Laser rifle - Shield (120/80) Sniper rifle - Armor (90/110) Mass driver - Armor (80/120) Sawrm launcher - Armor (80/120) But this doesn't count as well Side arms Nova knifes - Equal (100/100) Scrambler pistol - Shield (120/80) With headshot bonus of 450%, which is an instant dead for most shield users. Ion pistol - Shield (110/90) low users Bolt pistol - Armor (90/110) But almost NO one uses it Flylock - Armor (80/120) But again, almost no one uses it Sub Machine Gun - Armor (95/110) Magsec SMG- Armor (90/110) Now, yeah, heavy and side have more armor than shield, but in light are either equal or shield are a greater threat, since they are more often used. Look at the Light Weapon Rifles: AR = Armor CR = Armor RR = Armor LR = Shield ScR = Shield Sniper R = Armor The above are used the most as light weapons (besides Sniper Rifle). The reason Caldari Scouts are OP to the rest and must be nerfed/docked the High-Slot because 493 shield? WTF? That's a little less equal to the Caldari Assault. This is roughly correct against a Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle: A Caldari Scout Ck.0 with A Boundless CR is squirming like a little girl from left and right and you're shooting at him and you hit him every time. He will go down quickly, yes. But If it was a 80 Shielded and 493 Armored Gallente Scout gk.0, There would be almost NO hesitation and the gk.0 would be almost INSTANTLY taken out against a CR. Yes the CR is against Armor but still. It should be about equal elimination. So therefore the Caldari Scout must be NERF'd for beginning shield and/or a high slot must be docked. Look it's just not fair. Shayz is right. The Caldari Scout is OP. If CCP won't nerf the Caldari Scout, then they must boost the Gallente scout somehow (and maybe the Amarr/Minmatar). P.S. My wording and understanding may be incorrect but the game was FINE with the Caldari Scout. Caldari Scout Nerf/Removal
Unidentified Caldarian Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 218	Posted - 2014.07.24 05:08:00 - [88] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: They're already getting nerfed next hotfix, the precision bonus is getting removed. Everyone keeps saying this is a nerf Yet all this does is make it so that Gallente scouts are more effective against sneaking up on these suits. They still have the 50 hp/s regen yes? They can still tank 450 shield yes? They can still do everything better than an assault with base stats yes? oh stfu every match i see you play you go 20+/5-, your trying to nerf cal scout into non existence. If your suggestions were implemented there be no specialty left to the cal scouts name. To tell the truth i think your a butthurt little bltch thats only competition is cal scout, get guud or go play cod Lol there is so much idiocy in that statement. But I'm only bringing up a couple points. - Shayz needs to get good? You even told him he gets "20+/5-" a match. - Caldari Scout is the best scout because of the Shield (which is ridiculously high (493? wtf)). - Shayz is right. Caldari is OP. Let's face it. Again the game was FINE without the Caldari Scout. Caldari Scout Nerf/Removal
Luis rules 1st Valor Coalition Red Whines. 37	Posted - 2014.07.24 05:52:00 - [89] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: For those that think I don't use the suit... I have an alt character which I use to test all Caldari suits. It has almost 20 million sp and all relevant skills needed. Sure it doesn't have EVERYTHING maxed out, but the majority of base skills needed to properly use a suit competitively are there. I first ran the advanced Caldari scout on that character to test the hit detection issue people were complaining about. I found that it was much easier to dodge shots in this suit compared to my Gallente scout. Sometimes I was even able to dodge long enough that my shields would actually start regenerating. The kill counts I was getting running solo were not super great. I could maybe get 20 easily, but that didn't prove anything as I was still dying 4 or 5 times. Then I skill into proto and am able to finally tank that last shield extender. My first match? 43/2 Thinking this was a fluke I did it again 37/1 At that point I literally felt the cheapness It was too easy to sit there behind cover for 5 seconds to let my shields come back to full. I had a complex damp on so that no one could see me, No one could kill me as I was running up to them even when iI'm obviously in their lline of sight with the cloak. In fact sometimes I'd recharge back to full shields as I'm charging at them because they just can't seem to deal damage to me. I thought "well maybe it's just that I'm not running into any good scouts or laser weapon users" Nope, cause even scramblers just couldn't deal enough damage to me. You'd think that 400-450 shield isn't that much, but when the scout can out-strafe your shots to where only half of them land, the scout's effective HP becomes more like 800-900 shield. Even if someone did manage to get a large portion of my shields down, I'd just cloak and regen it all back before my cloak disappears. But the craziest part about the whole thing was how I felt like there was no reason to use e-war mods. I really could see anything and everything. Yeah I used a damp, but I felt like precision mods were a waste of time. Why? Because the only thing a precision mod lets me do is see gallente scouts... So there was no reason NOT to tank my suit with shields unless I happened to run into a gallente scout that kept killing me because I couldn't passively scan him. But here's the best part There were a few scouts I ran into like this, but none of them could take out my 400+ shields before I killed them. I would usually survive the first shotgun blast (or dodge it entirely because lolhitdetection on calscout), and then have enough time to react to either run away and regen or shoot them in the face. Very rarely would I die by this. I can imagine it happening more in PC, but that means this game is not Dust 514 but SCOUT 514, where the only way to counter a competitve thing is by balancing it around the other competitive thing, which in this case is Gal vs Cal scout. LMFAO!!! So you are saying a suit is OP due the amount of kills you could do using that suit? Don't make me laugh... 1.- http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r498/1st_Luis/DSC_0715_zpsd63aae8d.jpg <--- Valor scout + Exile = OP 2.- http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r498/1st_Luis/DSC_0424_zps42bd0b5c.jpg <--- Gal scout + GEK = OP! 3.- http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r498/1st_Luis/DSC_0376_zps54b0ab58.jpg <--- SVER logi + Exile = OP 4.- http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r498/1st_Luis/DSC_0247_zps3a88f2d1.jpg <--- Gal scout + Duvolle = Super OP! 5.- http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r498/1st_Luis/DSC_0207_zps32c9f14b.jpg <---SVER logi + Exile = OP 6.- http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r498/1st_Luis/DSC_0202_zps57730323.jpg <--- SVER logi + Exile = OP 7.- http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r498/1st_Luis/DSC_0170_zpsac66a480.jpg <-- SVER logi + Exile = OP 8.- http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r498/1st_Luis/DSC_0162_zpsef5d5b43.jpg <-- SVER logi + Exile = OP NERF THE LOGIS!!!! NERF THE SCOUTS!!!! Even more important, NERF THE FREAKING EXILE, IT IS WAY WAY OP!!!!!!!!! Valor scout? OP!!!! Gal scout? OP!!!! Dust 514 is OP, for sure.... OP, OP, OP.... OP!!!!!!!!! True Adamance wrote: Luis rules 1st wrote: Truth has been spoken... Lasers and scrambler destroy Caldari scouts. And about ewar, come on, it was intended to be like that. IMO It's like if I ask for active scanne...
Luis rules 1st Valor Coalition Red Whines. 37	Posted - 2014.07.24 06:05:00 - [90] - Quote First I apologize for the double post. I know, it's simply wrong, but I wasn't able to fit eveyrthing in a single post. Unidentified Caldarian wrote: Luis rules 1st wrote: Wait wait, say that again? I'll list the weapons I remember and the effectiveness and actual numbers inside parenthesis (Shield/Armor). Note this is as far as I remember and they could be wrong Heavy weapons Forge gun - It doesn't matter, either way UR dead with one shot. But it's armor Heavy machine gun - Armor (95 /110) Light weapons Assault rifle - Shield (110/90) Scrambler rifle - Shield (120/80) Combat rifle - Armor (95/110) Rail rifle - Armor (90/110) Shotgun - Shield (110/90) Plasma cannon - Shield (110/90) (But one shot you are dead either way) Laser rifle - Shield (120/80) Sniper rifle - Armor (90/110) Mass driver - Armor (80/120) Sawrm launcher - Armor (80/120) But this doesn't count as well Side arms Nova knifes - Equal (100/100) Scrambler pistol - Shield (120/80) With headshot bonus of 450%, which is an instant dead for most shield users. Ion pistol - Shield (110/90) low users Bolt pistol - Armor (90/110) But almost NO one uses it Flylock - Armor (80/120) But again, almost no one uses it Sub Machine Gun - Armor (95/110) Magsec SMG- Armor (90/110) Now, yeah, heavy and side have more armor than shield, but in light are either equal or shield are a greater threat, since they are more often used. Look at the Light Weapon Rifles: AR = Armor CR = Armor RR = Armor LR = Shield ScR = Shield Sniper R = Armor The above are used the most as light weapons (besides Sniper Rifle). The reason Caldari Scouts are OP to the rest and must be nerfed/docked the High-Slot because 493 shield? WTF? That's a little less equal to the Caldari Assault. This is roughly correct against a Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle: A Caldari Scout Ck.0 with A Boundless CR is squirming like a little girl from left and right and you're shooting at him and you hit him every time. He will go down quickly, yes. But If it was a 80 Shielded and 493 Armored Gallente Scout gk.0, There would be almost NO hesitation and the gk.0 would be almost INSTANTLY taken out against a CR. Yes the CR is against Armor but still. It should be about equal elimination. So therefore the Caldari Scout must be NERF'd for beginning shield and/or a high slot must be docked. Look it's just not fair. Shayz is right. The Caldari Scout is OP. If CCP won't nerf the Caldari Scout, then they must boost the Gallente scout somehow (and maybe the Amarr/Minmatar). P.S. My wording and understanding may be incorrect but the game was FINE with the Caldari Scout. Really!!!? (Quoting Carter, a frined of mine) First of all, where the hell did you learn, read or whatever that the AR did damage on armor? It DOES make damage on shields!! Shields!! I'll make stuff simpler... or maybe a little more complicated for you. Gallente is the enemy of Caldari, Gallente is armor based while Caldari is shield based. So now, it is kinda obvious that Gallente have weapons based on shields, to kill their enemies. On the other hand, Caldari have weapons that do damage on armor. The shotgun, plasma launcher, AND THE ASSAULT RIFLE are Gallente weapons!! I hope I can leave the final conclusion to you. Sniper and Railgun, are examples of Caldari weapons. Which of course, do damage on armor. If you wanna test what I just told you, in the game aim someone who is full shield with any AR and you'll see effectiveness is 110% (At proper range) No wonder why you have issues killing.... you don't even know their effectiveness, nor history of the different factions. Pretty much the same happens with Amarr and Minmatar, they are enemies, so Amarr weapons do damage on Shield and Minmatar on armor. Minmatar of course, in some cases, can be either armor or shield. For example, Minmatar logi is based on armor, but could have a descent shield as well.

Unlucky Fluke The Rainbow Effect 11	Posted - 2014.07.24 06:42:00 - [91] - Quote I think the most valuable input here comes from the guys and girls having both the Caldari and the Gallente scout at proto Level, and have been using both for some time. Like myself. IMO the Gallente scout is superior in almost every way compared to the Caldari scout. As a tanked option I can get: 233 Shields 496 Armor (4x ferroscale) - And thats with full moment speed! - I can still fit either an allotek hive and a proto scanner or a triage + a normal hive. Aswell as a proto weapon and nades and a decent sidearm. Yes I only have an armor rep speed of 3 - but in most cases the 233 Shields + a little armor is enough, when hard pressed or severaly damaged I simply put Down a triage hive. As a tanked Caldari scout I can get: 453 Shields (not the 493 that some claim in this thread) 236 Armor With a rep speed of 2 (1 Ferro and 1 reactive making it a whopping 1% slower...) But With a proto gun, proto nades and a decent sidearm I can only fit 2 compact nanohives, so the suit is "Filled up in a way". As opposed to the Galente suit where I can fit proto uplinks on it and a compact hive or whatever I want really... I find it disturbing that the OP has a proto Gallente scout and claims that the Caldari is so much better and should be nerfed. I call total BS on it. I'd very much like to know how OP fits the Gallente scout, it will perhaps lead me to understand why the OP makes these moronic claims.... My main is famous!
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 934	Posted - 2014.07.24 07:44:00 - [92] - Quote Unidentified Caldarian wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: They're already getting nerfed next hotfix, the precision bonus is getting removed. Everyone keeps saying this is a nerf Yet all this does is make it so that Gallente scouts are more effective against sneaking up on these suits. They still have the 50 hp/s regen yes? They can still tank 450 shield yes? They can still do everything better than an assault with base stats yes? oh stfu every match i see you play you go 20+/5-, your trying to nerf cal scout into non existence. If your suggestions were implemented there be no specialty left to the cal scouts name. To tell the truth i think your a butthurt little bltch thats only competition is cal scout, get guud or go play cod Lol there is so much idiocy in that statement. But I'm only bringing up a couple points. - Shayz needs to get good? You even told him he gets "20+/5-" a match. - Caldari Scout is the best scout because of the Shield (which is ridiculously high (493? wtf)). - Shayz is right. Caldari is OP. Let's face it. Again the game was FINE without the Caldari Scout. i have never seen anyone who has ever ran a FOTM suit or gun ever sit down and be able to admit the suit they run is OP. so they have a hard time with a discussion and most times just say get good for there fear of being nerfed. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4278	Posted - 2014.07.24 08:52:00 - [93] - Quote Unlucky Fluke wrote: I find it disturbing that the OP has a proto Gallente scout and claims that the Caldari is so much better and should be nerfed. I call total BS on it. I'd very much like to know how OP fits the Gallente scout, it will perhaps lead me to understand why the OP makes these moronic claims.... I still think all scouts should be reduced from their slayer roles, but the Caldari one just has way too much of an advantage against the suits in this game compared to the other scouts. The Gallente scout might be able to stack the same HP, but it can't recover it as fast. Not only that but if it tries to tank armor it must sacrifice both speed (kin cats) and dampening...as they are both in the lows where the gallente can tank HP Caldari on the other hand doesn't need to sacrifice tank to sneak up on enemies. They also don't get any penalty from running more HP on their suit (the shield delay penalty doesn't affect the scout as much as medium or heavy frames, and they don't lose speed either). Gallente also need to sacrifice tank in order to gain a very fast recovery while the Caldari do not. Then as an added bonus the Caldari are harder to hit compared to gallente. I can hit maybe 80-90% of all scrambler shots against a gallente, minmatar, or amarr scout. The caldari is more like 50% of shots actually landing or being detected. At least I have a chance at killing gallente scouts. If I couldn't kill them either or if they had 30 base armor regen I'd probably have a problem with them too. ____________________________________________________________________________________ I don't usually run a Gallente scout against the Caldari scout. In fact I believe that the gallente scout is actually pretty even against the caldari scout when it comes to a SINGLE encounter. But when the Caldari scout runs away for a few seconds and comes back they immediately have the advantage. I understand that shields should have that advantage, but a recovery speed that great should require the use of an energizer, sacrificing tank. Okay, time for my fitting: http://youtu.be/JS8LAlWrKEE Actually that was a joke. My AV fitting is pretty badass though huh? I skilled into the gallente scout primarily for AV and the Plasma Cannon But I do run a shotgun fitting occasionally when I'm bored, or when I want to mess with people. Shotgun SMG 2x Complex Extenders 1x basic/enhanced armor plate 1x enhanced range extender 1x complex kin cat 1x complex profile damp Sometimes I'll exchange the range extender or dampener for an extra plate if I'm going up against lots of heavies. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Unlucky Fluke The Rainbow Effect 12	Posted - 2014.07.24 10:51:00 - [94] - Quote You don't say what Equipment you will typically use. Also: A shotgun fit is something of a "specialised role IMO" - typically using kin kats, dampeners etc. I hear no mention of the use of repping hives, they might be an abomination used on a scout suit, but extremely effective non the less. - With the same sort of Logic as you use, the Caldari scouts currently need to use 1 high slot for a Precision enhancer to take advantage of their role bonus, 2 after the upcoming hotfix. That is sacrificing primary tank is it not? Anyways: I thought the main issue here was the brick tanked slayer scouts roamng the battlefield, not the "scouty scout"... This is a fitting which is so good and OP using a Gallente scout as a pure slayer scout that I've mostly stopped using it, it has everything it needs to fight frontline style vs anything: (Note the use of a Scrambler pistol, both for fitting reasons and for the very effective "tap them 3-4 times With a pistol and switch to Your CR when they start to move about strategy", that weapon combo is insanely good.... Scout gk.0 57,690 Complex Shield Extender 4,275 Complex Shield Extender 4,275 Complex Ferroscale Plates 3,945 Complex Ferroscale Plates 3,945 Complex Ferroscale Plates 3,945 Complex Ferroscale Plates 3,945 Boundless Combat Rifle 47,220 Scrambler Pistol 675 Core Locus Grenade 14,160 CreoDron Flux Active Scanner 18,885 Allotek Nanohive (R) 28,335 ISK Estimated Cost: ~ 191,295 - The main thing to notice here is the versatility the Equipment gives, very good scan, good reps and plenty of ammo. - It also has no speed penalty while still having insane amounts of HP = 725. Good forbid you should have 6 of these in a Squad With 3 of them swapping scanners for repairkits.... CPU 431 / 433.125 gF PG 92.5 / 97.125 kW Shield 87.5 [232.7] HP Armor 162.5 [492.5] HP No icon eHP 250 [725.2] HP Shield Recharge Rate 30 HP/s Shield Recharge Delay 4 s Shield Dep. Rec. Delay 6 [6.87] s Armor Repair Rate 3 HP/s Movement Speed 5.45 m/s Strafe Speed 4.91 m/s Sprint Speed 8.01 m/s Stamina 210 Stamina Recovery Rate 31.5 /s Scan Profile 22.76 dB Scan Precision 32.4 dB Scan Radius 31.5 m Challenge for IzayzI: - Go into protofits and set up a Caldari slayer scout fitting as best you can, see for yourselves how it copares to this one. As I've mentioned before, you get roughly the same HP, With the same weaponry, but you can just forget about fitting stuff like a proto scanner, or indeed that and something else as expensive to fit as these Allotek hives which cost what? Is it 88/16? Well unless you fit other armor plates than the proto ferroscale / repping plate combo making it slower... My main is famous!
Unlucky Fluke The Rainbow Effect 13	Posted - 2014.07.24 11:13:00 - [95] - Quote Wel, I'll make it easy for you: - Using the same fitting as far as its possible/relevant I get these numbers for the Caldari scout: Scout ck.0 57,690 Complex Shield Extender 4,275 Complex Shield Extender 4,275 Complex Shield Extender 4,275 Complex Shield Extender 4,275 Complex Ferroscale Plates 3,945 Complex Reactive Plates 3,945 Boundless Combat Rifle 47,220 Scrambler Pistol 675 Core Locus Grenade 14,160 Compact Nanohive 900 CreoDron Flux Active Scanner 18,885 The compact hive can in theory be swapped for a nanohive, but that's hardly worthwhile since it needs the PG uppgrade skills to be maxed at both the CR and the pistol, the fitting above is only possible if you have maxed out the PG skill of the CR- and lets be realistic- Who would spend that many SP for a 2 point reduction? CPU 436.5 / 456.75 gF PG 84.5 / 86.625 kW Shield 162.5 [452.9] HP Armor 87.5 [236] HP No icon eHP 250 [688.9] HP Shield Recharge Rate 50 HP/s Shield Recharge Delay 3 s Shield Dep. Rec. Delay 4 [5.24] s Armor Repair Rate 0 [3] HP/s Movement Speed 5.45 [5.4] m/s Strafe Speed 4.91 [4.86] m/s Sprint Speed 8.01 [7.93] m/s Stamina 210 Stamina Recovery Rate 31.5 /s Scan Profile 26.78 dB Scan Precision 27 dB Scan Radius 34.5 m Negative qualities for the Caldari scout: Slightly less HP (37) Slightly slower (1%) There is no point in having a teammate using a repair kit. Very hard to fit - I mean: This fiting is barely doable With maxed out skills, it has the same scanner but here I use a compact hive cmpared to the Allotek hive of the Gallente scout, think what this does in terms of other fits possible, proto uplinks cost a lot to fit, so does the cloak etc.... Negative Qualities for the Gallente scout: Not self repping - this is not really a point IMO due to the use of rephives. 40 HP or indeed 80 per impulse in a pinch With the allotek hive - or why not 70 HP or indeed 140 hp per impulse With the use of Triage hives, you can still fit enhanced ammo giving hives without sacrificing anything else. They will eventually run out but then you're not doing it right IMO... OR - why you can go down to 1 or 2 enhanced extenders and fit both the triage hive and the allotek hive, giving you 6 repping hives 3 of which gives ammo...(I run the proto (gives you 4 ammo giving hives) and the triage on my MD fitting) - I might be missing some vast truth in all of this, my experience with running these 2 suits since the suit respec is that the Caldari is the most fun, but in a any sort of competitive game or indeed in PC, the Gallente scout is superior. My main is famous!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4278	Posted - 2014.07.24 11:14:00 - [96] - Quote Who the ** puts alloteks on their scout? What is this? That was the stupid Gal Logi strategy that never worked well. Again the Cal Scout wins because they don't need a scanner to scan or a nanohive to rep back their pool of HP. You didn't ask me what I thought a "competitive" fit was, you just asked me wwhat my own fit was and for the record I use a cloak and a compact hive If I wanted to build a "slayer" scout (which I wowuldn't ever do because I have two different proto assaults, commandos, and sentinels which are the ones who should be slaying anyways), it would look something like this: ACR/CR SMG if possible Grenade? 2x complex extender 3x enhanced plates (possibly basic if too much speed penalty) 1x complex armor repair Relying on equipment to keep you alive is silly if you're a scout. You need the extra armor repair, possibly two modules. I guess the number of plates is really all dependant on how much of a crazy strafer you are. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!**
Unlucky Fluke The Rainbow Effect 14	Posted - 2014.07.24 11:29:00 - [97] - Quote And lastly: (Well since you have a long serious OP I will give a long serious answer...) - That all scouts should be reduces from their slayer roles might be true, I'm only here to highlight the wrongfulness of the claim that the Caldari is superior to the Gallente scout... - Fitting max tank on a Caldari scout and a Kin Kat, do that in Protofits and see how much you're left with, do the same with the Gallente scout and you'll still have more HP, and more room to fit guns and equiment - this argument is not valid at all IMO and is the sort of argument typically coming from people not owning the suit which aren't used to fitting it... And I have tried to run the Caldari suit with no armor on it and it just doesn't work, I've gotten better results all over the line whith using ferroscale plate + repper or now recently a repping plate due to the fiting cost change. - That the Caldari is harder to hit (I have seen no evidence of that, I slay them just as easy (or hard) as any other suit) is strictly a Programming issue or bug of some kind, its not the stats of the suit thats the reason and its therefore hardly a valid argument for its nerf.... - Find me someone that has used both suits extensively that agrees with you, I doubt such a person excist.... My main is famous!
Unlucky Fluke The Rainbow Effect 14	Posted - 2014.07.24 12:20:00 - [98] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Who the **** puts alloteks on their scout? What is this? That was the stupid Gal Logi strategy that never worked well. Again the Cal Scout wins because they don't need a scanner to scan or a nanohive to rep back their pool of HP. You didn't ask me what I thought a "competitive" fit was, you just asked me wwhat my own fit was and for the record I use a cloak and a compact hive If I wanted to build a "slayer" scout (which I wowuldn't ever do because I have two different proto assaults, commandos, and sentinels which are the ones who should be slaying anyways), it would look something like this: ACR/CR SMG if possible Grenade? 2x complex extender 3x enhanced plates (possibly basic if too much speed penalty) 1x complex armor repair Relying on equipment to keep you alive is silly if you're a scout. You need the extra armor repair, possibly two modules. I guess the number of plates is really all dependant on how much of a crazy strafer you are. Look at those stats, they are directly copy pasted from Protofits FFS. the Caldari scout has: Scan Profile 26.78 dB Scan Precision 27 dB Scan Radius 34.5 m The Gallente has: Scan Profile 22.76 dB Scan Precision 32.4 dB Scan Radius 31.5 m So by Your Logic the 3 extra M of scanning range of the Caldari suit warrants the negation of a scanner that can scan 200 M at 90 degree angle? That was just an example, well the one I use, same equipment due to equal fitting cost for easier comparison. Should I come here and claim that the Caldari suit needs a profile dampener to compensate for the Gallente's role bonus - so that it leads to my fitting losing another 80+ HP compared to the Gallente, making the Galente suit having roughly 20% more total HP in this case... Well my ingame performance with that setup says otherwise. Its the setup I've been having the most success With, as I mentioned, it was OP to the point where I've stopped using it. "Not on a scout" LOL - try thinking outside the Box. Come at me With anything (LOL other than a flux...) When I have a super fast strafing almost 500 armor scout who gets 140 HP back per impulse. I've had situations where I've taken on multiple fatties that way, just hide the hives on a corner, og back there for 5 Seconds and you're good to go... You say: Who the *** puts alloteks on their scout?* (ETC) Armor tanking is IMO not very effective when exclusively used with self repping, its way too slow and you sacrifice way too much tank if you want it to be fast. So either: Use some hives or play in a squad with a repair tool or two. Just ROFL at the armor tanker - no matter what suit you use - complaining and claiming the shield tanked suits should be nerfed due to high rep speed while you yourself use armor the "wrong way" or at least - the less effective way. I don't use my suit properly - please nerf the other suit..... So go into protofits please - make me a Caldari scout fit and present the stats here - its much more useful than blurting out this and that without even checking whats even possible to fit on the damn suit.... Make me a fitting that is OP - I don't think you can. Edit: At the end I found out that the most effective Caldari Assault setup I could make was With a CPU uppgrade and 2 basic plates in low slots - and With an Allotek hive.... My main is famous!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4278	Posted - 2014.07.24 14:02:00 - [99] - Quote Unlucky Fluke wrote: Make me a fitting that is OP - I don't think you can. Six Kin ACR SMG 3x Complex extenders 1x Enhanced extender 1x Complex Reactive plate 1x Complex Kin Cat Adv Cloak Compact nanohive (quick recovery of ammo for ACR bullethose) 435 Shields 153 armor 50 hp/s shield recharge 2 hp/s armor repair 9 m/s sprint ___________________________________________________ You're just not getting it. Why do all of the "best" players run the Cal scout? Why are players able to run full squads of Cal Scouts and stomp the enemy team easily? Why do people choose it over every other suit in the game? The Cal Scout is OP not because it's better than other scouts, not because I can't kill it, not because it is some magical suit that can dodge rounds flying at it It is the suit in the game right now with the most advantages and the least disadvantages. Do you not see that? Do you not understand that a single playstyle cannot have a huge amount of HP for the role, the fastest recovery in the game, the best speed in the game, the smallest hitbox in the game, suit bonuses which remove the need for modules, base stats that remove the need for modules... Yes the Gal scout has a lot of these same advantages, which makes it somewhat OP in its own right... but what does it NOT have? -Passive recovery built into the suit so you don't need to use equipment or modules to get that recovery -A low shield delay -The ability to max tank the suit with barely a penalty ____________________________________________________________ In other words Stop trying to argue that the Cal Scout ISN'T OP just because the Gallente one still somewhat is. I honestly don't care about the Gallente scout because in order for them to get an insane recovery speed they have to either reduce their tank or rely on equipment/reps Would it make you happier if I just changed my post to include all scouts? Cal and Gal Scouts? Seriously. Or how about I make an entirely new post about how the Gal Scout is OP just to see how much of the community disagrees with me...telling me that the Gal Scout is fine but that the Cal scout is the one that's OP >.> You don't see Gal scouts running around with 600-800 armor because it would punish them too much and they can't regen it reliably, yet Cal scouts can run around with fully tanked shields and actually find it more beneficial. You also don't see full squads of tanked Gal scouts stomping players in 4 out of every 5 matches...do you? 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Unlucky Fluke The Rainbow Effect 14	Posted - 2014.07.24 15:33:00 - [100] - Quote I've seen plenty of Gal scout clubs owning everything with dampeners and cloaks, maybe less as of late. I have not on the other hand seen so many Cal scouts, but I do believe you are right on that point. All I'm really trying to state here is that the Cal scout isn't any better than the Gal scout, only different. On another point, I do disagree on the Cal scout you suggest, being able to only restock ammo once is far too little IMO, but that can easily be avoided by swapping the Kin kat for a ferro plate. Going from 8 to a 9 run speed is not worth sacrificing 82.5 hp and beter hives for, but then I am a sort of player that easily runs out of ammo. I can also set up a similar fitting with the Gal scout and I get: 233 shields 30 rep speed after 4 sec 311 armor and thats with 2 ferro plates - no penalty 24.75 armor rep - no movement penalty - no kin kat but who cares about 8 vs 9 m per sec with a gun like that???? and I have 18 PG and 45 CPU left over.... I'd love to keep at it but I'm of for a concert, I'll be back toorrow :) My main is famous!

D4GG3R Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 409	Posted - 2014.07.24 16:18:00 - [101] - Quote Scouts were a barely used specialist role before 1.8?!?! I'm appalled.. great scouts were a gift from god pre-1.8! They were gsme changers:) I'm pretty plain. I watch anime for the boobs
Luis rules 1st Valor Coalition Red Whines. 37	Posted - 2014.07.24 17:25:00 - [102] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: I don't usually run a Gallente scout against the Caldari scout. In fact I believe that the gallente scout is actually pretty even against the caldari scout when it comes to a SINGLE encounter. But when the Caldari scout runs away for a few seconds and comes back they immediately have the advantage. I understand that shields should have that advantage, but a recovery speed that great should require the use of an energizer, sacrificing tank. LOL! OK, lets say the Caldari scout run and he has an average of 450 shield and 250 armor, and that he will come back after he's full at shield, which will take about 13~14 secs. (Note that his armor will only be repaired about 28 HP) First of all, since he ran away, he cannot be shooting while running away. Now, supposing a Gallente scout with 2 complex shield extenders, 2 complex armor plates and 2 complex armor repairer, it has a armor rep of about 22, and a shield delay of 7s for depleted, at the most. In 13~14 secs, the Gall scout replenished about 180~210 shield + 282~304. Which is equal to 462~514 total HP. Oh, hang a sec, isn't that more HP than the Caldari? Plus, remember the Caldari began to run before and ergo no shooting, ergo more HP for the Gallente. But to begin with, if you let him run to come back at full health, it is your fault and you deserve to die. IMO, Gallente with the advantage that while their shield last, he will recover more armor in an effective way. Meanwhile, Caldari scout.... not so good in armor repairing department. Also, Gallente HP is more balanced and Caldari will be based on Shield only, depending on the weapons they are both yielding, could be good or bad. At the end, they are close to be the same. Stop whining, and instead being here complaining about what you can't kill, practice your skills. About EVERYONE going for the Caldari scout, that's a lie. Caldari has the lead, but by about 1%. Gallente and Caldari are almost equally used. There are many skilled players using Gallente scouts out there. About scouts not being able to be slayers.... what do you wan't for scouts then? Only to go behind enemy lines and hide the rest of the game? Whenever you wanna take me one on one, lemme know. I'll hit ya with my Gallente scout, while you use your so called Caldari OP. We'll see if the suit is OP or not. L8er!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4283	Posted - 2014.07.24 21:20:00 - [103] - Quote Luis rules 1st wrote: Now, supposing a Gallente scout with 2 complex shield extenders, 2 complex armor plates and 2 complex armor repairer, it has a armor rep of about 22, and a shield delay of 7s for depleted, at the most. In 13~14 secs, the Gall scout replenished about 180~210 shield + 282~304. Which is equal to 462~514 total HP. Oh, hang a sec, isn't that more HP than the Caldari? Plus, remember the Caldari began to run before and ergo no shooting, ergo more HP for the Gallente At the end, they are close to be the same. About scouts not being able to be slayers.... what do you wan't for scouts then? Only to go behind enemy lines and hide the rest of the game? First of all, I'd love to take your Gallente scout on against my Proto Amarr Commando with Scrambler + Mass Driver :P If you used the gallente scout I could hit you with a few shots of the scrambler and then finish you off with mass driver splash. If you used Caldari though, I'd die because my damage wouldn't apply properly and you'd be able to rep through the mass driver rounds. Oh wait, you want me to use a scout? I don't main the scout, I use the suit primarily for AV Video: http://youtu.be/JS8LAlWrKEE That said, I do run a shotgun fit on occasion, and don't have a problem taking out caldari scouts with a shotgun. Any other weapon seems to do minimal damage against Cal scouts though, even scramblers, as it's almost impossible to hit a Cal scout with a scrambler compared to a gallente. _________________________________________________________________________________________ To actually reply to your post though, do you not see what you're doing here? The Caldari doesn't need to use a single recharger/energizer to get that insane recharge speeed, so they can freely fit shield extenders... Yet in your example the gallente needs to use two plates that PENALIZE the scout's movement speed, and two complex armor repair modules...just to even compete with the regen of the caldari. This is why the Gallente scout is NOT OP, because you have to at least sacrifice some of your tank in order to get that recovery. Caldari doesn't need to do that. Caldari also doesn't lose speed by doing so, and is only penalized by adding a whole 1.3ish seconds onto their already super fast shield depleted delay. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
MythTanker Haus of Triage 131	Posted - 2014.07.24 22:27:00 - [104] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: They're already getting nerfed next hotfix, the precision bonus is getting removed. Everyone keeps saying this is a nerf Yet all this does is make it so that Gallente scouts are more effective against sneaking up on these suits. They still have the 50 hp/s regen yes? They can still tank 450 shield yes? They can still do everything better than an assault with base stats yes? oh stfu every match i see you play you go 20+/5-, your trying to nerf cal scout into non existence. If your suggestions were implemented there be no specialty left to the cal scouts name. To tell the truth i think your a butthurt little bltch thats only competition is cal scout, get guud or go play cod kill it before it lays eggs The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his -George S. Patton
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 5485	Posted - 2014.07.25 00:38:00 - [105] - Quote Unidentified Caldarian wrote: Look at the Light Weapon Rifles: AR = Armor CR = Armor RR = Armor LR = Shield ScR = Shield Sniper R = Armor The above are used the most as light weapons (besides Sniper Rifle). The reason Caldari Scouts are OP to the rest and must be nerfed/docked the High-Slot because 493 shield? WTF? That's a little less equal to the Caldari Assault. This is roughly correct against a Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle: A Caldari Scout Ck.0 with A Boundless CR is squirming like a little girl from left and right and you're shooting at him and you hit him every time. He will go down quickly, yes. But If it was a 80 Shielded and 493 Armored Gallente Scout gk.0, There would be almost NO hesitation and the gk.0 would be almost INSTANTLY taken out against a CR. Yes the CR is against Armor but still. It should be about equal elimination. So therefore the Caldari Scout must be NERF'd for beginning shield and/or a high slot must be docked. Look it's just not fair. Shayz is right. The Caldari Scout is OP. If CCP won't nerf the Caldari Scout, then they must boost the Gallente scout somehow (and maybe the Amarr/Minmatar). P.S. My wording and understanding may be incorrect but the game was FINE with the Caldari Scout. 1st AR has +10% vs shield. Second, people are butthurt vs the Tanked Cal scout because they want to use their CR-RR and win against everything...heh I take Proto CAl scouts with an ADV BREACH freakn AR (me being an above average player) and you are telling me you people cant kill them even with proto weaponry... This is not Cal scout Opness, this is lack of skill. Get a freakn Mouse and keyboard to make it easymode for you , dont nerf the freakn suit because Butthurtness. '' then they must boost the Gallente scout somehow'' *WT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?** The Gal scout is at the moment the best scout with more diversity of fits end everything. I can run under CAl scouts radar all day with my Gk.0 while making holes in their Face with AR's and SCR's. as easy as taking out my BREACH SCR PISTOL and 1HKO them in the watermelon... Stealth Storm
aaaasdff ertgfdd 167	Posted - 2014.07.25 01:26:00 - [106] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Unidentified Caldarian wrote: Look at the Light Weapon Rifles: AR = Armor CR = Armor RR = Armor LR = Shield ScR = Shield Sniper R = Armor The above are used the most as light weapons (besides Sniper Rifle). The reason Caldari Scouts are OP to the rest and must be nerfed/docked the High-Slot because 493 shield? WTF? That's a little less equal to the Caldari Assault. This is roughly correct against a Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle: A Caldari Scout Ck.0 with A Boundless CR is squirming like a little girl from left and right and you're shooting at him and you hit him every time. He will go down quickly, yes. But If it was a 80 Shielded and 493 Armored Gallente Scout gk.0, There would be almost NO hesitation and the gk.0 would be almost INSTANTLY taken out against a CR. Yes the CR is against Armor but still. It should be about equal elimination. So therefore the Caldari Scout must be NERF'd for beginning shield and/or a high slot must be docked. Look it's just not fair. Shayz is right. The Caldari Scout is OP. If CCP won't nerf the Caldari Scout, then they must boost the Gallente scout somehow (and maybe the Amarr/Minmatar). P.S. My wording and understanding may be incorrect but the game was FINE with the Caldari Scout. 1st AR has +10% vs shield. Second, people are butthurt vs the Tanked Cal scout because they want to use their CR-RR and win against everything...heh I take Proto CAl scouts with an ADV BREACH freakn AR (me being an above average player) and you are telling me you people cant kill them even with proto weaponry... This is not Cal scout Opness, this is lack of skill. Get a freakn Mouse and keyboard to make it easymode for you , dont nerf the freakn suit because Butthurtness. '' then they must boost the Gallente scout somehow'' *WT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?** The Gal scout is at the moment the best scout with more diversity of fits end everything. I can run under CAl scouts radar all day with my Gk.0 while making holes in their Face with AR's and SCR's. as easy as taking out my BREACH SCR PISTOL and 1HKO them in the watermelon... I agree, cal scouts are easy, but if you are having trouble pull out a crd9 and I PROMISE you will melt cal scouts. INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
Luis rules 1st Valor Coalition 39	Posted - 2014.07.25 16:23:00 - [107] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: No, scouts shouldn't be slayers. Scouts should never be able to get 40-50 kills in a match easily just because they can track the enemy better and have a huge HP buffer to prevent them from dying in face to face confrontation. If a scout doesn't play tactically, the scout should die. By playing a scout suit, you should be weak enough that if you are detected you will die instantly...but scouts already have the natural ability to hide from radar and see their enemy 24/7 without even using modules. Lol Usually, scouts strike first and that's why they win 1 vs 1 encounters. Most of the time hitting in the back, so that's playing tactically for a scout. Or kinda ****, if you want, but that's what they usually do. Stab ya in the back and run. Also, didn't you see the pictures? I have scored that with scout, logis, assaults, heavies.... maybe all suits are OP and they all should be nerfed... Because they just can kill a lot of people. Isn't this contradicting? I-Shayz-I wrote: By increasing your e-war strength with modules, the scout will then be more survivable. I want to see e-war modules me more effective on a scout suit than tanking it with HP. I-Shayz-I wrote: Yet in your example the gallente needs to use two plates that PENALIZE the scout's movement speed, and two complex armor repair modules...just to even compete with the regen of the caldari. This is why the Gallente scout is NOT OP, because you have to at least sacrifice some of your tank in order to get that recovery. Well, looks like finally you realize that HP regen is not as much as you thought. Now, if by the given example clearly the gal scout has the advantage, and it has a good profile, you want the Caldari one to be slower, with less health and also to be able to see nothing? & that's supposed to be fair? I-Shayz-I wrote:** First of all, I'd love to take your Gallente scout on against my Proto Amarr Commando with Scrambler + Mass Driver :P If you used the gallente scout I could hit you with a few shots of the scrambler and then finish you off with mass driver splash. If you used Caldari though, I'd die because my damage wouldn't apply properly and you'd be able to rep through the mass driver rounds. Come and get me! If you don't wanna use the scout, I won't restrict to the scout as well. I'll kill ya with whichever suit I like and then I hope you make another thread that X suit is OP because it killed ya countless times.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 64	Posted - 2014.07.25 16:40:00 - [108] - Quote People still use the hitbox arguement when talking about the cal scout... Sad actually. I know people bash other races but the lies must stop. Hitbox is fine. Gal scout can get both armor and shield repair at high level where only the Cal can get high shield regen, without sacrificing EWAR. Not to mention shield recharge delay that comes into effect AGAIN when some random shoots you from 100m away with militia gear. Armor has not. It's a matter of choice and sacrifice. Both have advantages and disadvantages I know OP clearly has a problem with the cal scout and that's fine but please do not use arguments like hitbox because it's simply not true. I kill them plenty often. Shield regen is a poor argument too because delay kicks in AGAIN when some random shoots you from 100m away with a militia AR. Armor repairs instantly. It all has to do with suit set up and i'm sick and tired of people who claim something is OP on a game that is still riddled with lag and environment glitches that affect "bulletsponging". This gives a false perspective of the problem. When this game is lag and glitch free then you can talk about hitbox detection. I've seen heavies take no dmg.


Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.