Poor CalScouts, getting nerfed.

Now they will only be able to scan everything within 100 meters 24/7 and give everyone in their squad(and themselves) a super advantage. Not to mention they are gaining damps.

This is stupid...
As simple as that.

Everything that's decent in the game gets nerfed or crippled close to non usable. A lot of people skilled into the suit because of the passive scan, and it seems they'll remove it...
Yet, people keeps complaining.

Can't base your decision on who kills who, btw. I kill heavies...? yeah, but at the right distance with any suit. Engaging at the right range is the key here and you cannot say any scout or suit is OP due that.

Because it has too high total HP!? WTF!!!?? So stupid.
First of all, you are complaining that the Caldari Scout has too much HP, but the truth is that Galente Scout could have even more. Armor plates cost less and gives a huge buff.

Don't they have to stack precision enhancers to that know. There losing the precision bonus right, so how can they scan everything within 100 meters. I'm confused. The dampening bonus however is just random. That just saying the gallente scout has no role as a scout since caldari is given dampening.

The Amarr could do it as well.

Gallente got nerfed worst, But now that Caldari is on the chopping block everybody gives a damn about not nerfing this and that.

Either turn everything back to 1.8 numbers and let everything be(while buffing everything that is useless)

Or continue with balancing we have going on now.

Or just skill Amarr because they keep getting buffed when not needed(getting extra slots while not giving up anything in return)

I still have no idea what they were thinking with the damps. I guess it's so they can hide and run range amps.

As for the precision mods, with 2 of them they will be able to scan nearly everything. With 3-4 they will be able to scan everything except max triple damp Gallente/Caldari scouts.

That just saying the gallente scout has no role as a scout since caldari is given dampening.

Yep, my triple damp CalScout will be super OP.

Wait! What!!??
How exactly are you gonna fit 3 (Three) dampeners in 2 (TWO) slots?
Dampeners were low slots the last time I checked and Caldari scout has two, unless I missed something...
Otherwise... I need to know that!!

Prob means the bonus plus the actual mod usage .

The way you written it is one dampener.
At the best could be double dampener.
Triple.... still waiting for that sort of bug and make a cal ghost loadout :P

Wait! What!!??
How exactly are you gonna fit 3 (Three) dampeners in 2 (TWO) slots?
Dampeners were low slots the last time I checked and Caldari scout has two, unless I missed something...
Otherwise... I need to know that!!

Don't they have to stack precision enhancers to that know. There losing the precision bonus right, so how can they scan everything within 100 meters. I'm confused. The dampening bonus however is just random. That just saying the gallente scout has no role as a scout since caldari is given dampening.

IF YOU ARE SKIMMING AT THIS POINT, STOP HERE AND READ THIS PART

3. Yes Scouts have advantages, but they also have some really key disadvantages that make them less effective at some things than others right?

Of course! Today I played 5 matches, 4 of them were against full squads using all Caldari scouts. I ran my Proto Amarr Assault with a prof 5 Viziam to show them the pain.
http://imgur.com/0XDBHw5

Oh wait, out of their entire squad only one of them had a single death?
That's strange, when I spawned in I thought that Caldari scouts could easily be taken out with a few shots from a scrambler.
huh

IF YOU ARE SKIMMING AT THIS POINT, STOP HERE AND READ THIS PART

3. Yes Scouts have advantages, but they also have some really key disadvantages that make them less effective at some things than others right?

Of course! Today I played 5 matches, 4 of them were against full squads using all Caldari scouts. I ran my Proto Amarr Assault with a prof 5 Viziam to show them the pain.
http://imgur.com/0XDBHw5

Oh wait, out of their entire squad only one of them had a single death?
That's strange, when I spawned in I thought that Caldari scouts could easily be taken out with a few shots from a scrambler.
huh
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The main disadvantages of the scout:

Lower average HP values (The Caldari Assault can get 100 more shield compared to the scout)

Only 6 H/L slots at proto (One more than the Sentinels, one less than assaults, but they do have two equipment)

Alpha damage can be brutal (Can't take a sniper shot / PLC / Mass Driver easily like other suits)

I just sat here for 30 minutes trying to figure out more but that's about it right there unfortunately.
However, I started thinking about Destiny and how they balance the classes between 3 stats...let's do that for Dust really quick

Armor: To put it simply, your total HP
Recovery: How fast you can recover your HP after you have been hit
Agility: Movement, strafe, air control, hump height...things like that.

In Dust, Scouts have the best Recovery and Agility while having decent HP values
Assaults have about medium everything
Heavies are best in HP, medium recovery, and low agility
Logistics have medium HP values, a bit higher recovery, but slightly low agility.

To put simply, Scouts have two things they are best at, which is bad for balance.
This is even more true of the Caldari Scout, which has even more things it is best at, as described in the first post.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

4. What are our solutions then?

A. Swap recovery values for Scouts and Assaults.
-Caldari Assaults have the best shield regen, Gallente Assaults have the best base armor regeneration.
-Possibly reduce them a bit so that we don't have Amarr and Gallente shield recharge so high.
-Scouts now have recovery values slightly higher than Logistics, but NEED to sacrifice HP modules if they want to have a fast recovery
-Shield delay values should stay the same. Assaults are long delay fast recovery; scouts are short delay slow recovery.

B. Reduce Base HP
-If Scouts get max recovery and agility, they should be insanely easy to take out.
-Still allows scouts to tank their suits if they want to, but reduces the effect
-The best scouts will then become those that can flank and hide,
-Discourages head to head engagements and encourages the use of e-war

C. Decrease fitting capacity drastically, increase skill fitting reduction of cloaks, decrease fitting cost of e-war and hacking mods
-Makes it more worth it to run a damp, range amp, or hack mod than a plate, also easier to fit.
-Possible to fit 4 complex extenders and a proto weapon if you fit nothing else (or use cpu/pg mods in lows)
-Cloaks will still be easy to fit, but you won't have a huge excess of fitting space if you don't use one.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Final Thoughts/TLDR:

I want scouts to be competitive but I don't want them to be the best slayers in the game because their base stats tell them they are. I want scouts to be the best ones at being sneaky and getting kills while the player isn't paying attention rather than being able to dance with a heavy and win.

I want it to be punishing for a scout to be detected. If I see a scout charging right at me, they should die quickly. If they decloak right in front of me it shouldn't take 10 seconds of direct hits to strip away their HP. They shouldn't be able to hide behind cover for 5 seconds and have their 450 shields back up.

I want scouts to use e-war mods rather than HP mods, to be punished more (not less) for stacking shield extenders, to have a reason to use armor repairers and shield rechargers/energizers rather than relying on insanely high base recovery values built into the suit. To still have to use modules that relate to their skill bonuses...

I want to be killed by high HP/fast regen slayer assaults, which I can dampen my suit against, that can't see me sneaking up on them, which I can destroy in my heavy if they get out of hand, which can't cloak and tank their suit at the same time.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Discussion time!

What do YOU want scouts to be?
I eagerly await your posts :D

Dude, to be completely fair, V-E-X is a total stomping kizzunt. 1.U.P (like Slayers Unite., before it) is a corp for tryhards.

This turd tried recruiting me one time, even though I told him I didn't measure up to his corp's 4.5 weekly KDR requirement. Told me to join his "training" corp with a 20% tax!!!. XD ROFLOLOLOL!!!! He was in a corp channel telling everyone they should run proto--pretty easy for him to say when he's taking 30K - 60K/match from the noobs he's "training"!

After stanking up the battlefield with his tryhard mangina, V-E-X gets together with duna and jenza to reenact scenes from Brokeback Mountain.

Because it has too high total HP!? WTF!!!?? So stupid.
First of all, you are complaining that the Caldari Scout has too much HP, but the truth is that Galente Scout could have even more. Armor plates cost less and gives a huge buff. Anything that is armor based can get higher numbers.
And don't start complaining about the move penalty, shields have a delay penalty and are harder to fit than armor stuff.

4. What are our solutions then?

A. Swap recovery values for Scouts and Assaults.
-Caldari Assaults have the best shield regen, Gallente Assaults have the best base armor regeneration.
-Possibly reduce them a bit so that we don't have Amarr and Gallente shield recharge so high.
-Scouts now have recovery values slightly higher than Logistics, but NEED to sacrifice HP modules if they want to have a fast recovery
-Shield delay values should stay the same. Assaults are long delay fast recovery; scouts are short delay slow recovery

So here's the first question we need to ask:

1. Why did no one use the Scout role in the first place? Why were all the other roles a better choice?

To quickly answer that, cloaks never existed for a long time. This made it easy to pick off scouts from a long distance away. They also had less HP than every other role and could be quickly eliminated. This was mainly due to their slot layout. It was almost impossible to tank a scout suit, making it very hard for a scout to survive head to head against any role.

As for the other roles, speed and dampening was just a few modules on an assault or logi suit, and scanners could provide all the e-war info that medium frames needed with even bigger ranges than scouts.

It was tough to sort through all the BS responses in this thread but, OP, you are right about at least one thing. Scouts have too high of base regen. I believe this is the issue and it won't be fixed in Charlie, which I am upset about. I am truly tired of being out 1v1 in my assault suit by some douche in a cal scout. Sometimes I manage to kill them, other times they get me, but most of the time they use their stupidly high regen to recover absurd amounts of HP while wearing me down, eventually killing me. I have no problem being killed by a sneaky scout, but the scouts who think they are assaults (you know who you are) are just annoying and unfair.

Question for all you scouts who argue you NEED high base regen. Why?

1. You are supposed to have lower hp so why do you need super regen stats?
2. You aren't supposed to take much damage, remember like eWar and speed and stealth etc.
3. If you still want high regen, fit modules like everyone else!

Because it has too high total HP!? WTF!!!?? So stupid.
First of all, you are complaining that the Caldari Scout has too much HP, but the truth is that Galente Scout could have even more. Armor plates cost less and gives a huge buff. Anything that is armor based can get higher numbers.
And don't start complaining about the move penalty, shields have a delay penalty and are harder to fit than armor stuff.

How is that NOT ******* OP?
Please tell me how having THAT many advantages isn't breaking the game.

@ Shayz

Read the entire post; agreed with many of your points. As Broker pointed out earlier, we've reached out to the Devs in hopes of seeing some of these issues resolved.

The central theme of our proposal is efficacy bonuses. We believe that "slayer" Scouts should leave behind their scout-perks when they tank up and pretend to be Assaults. By replacing base bonuses with their equivalent in efficacy bonuses, we believe we'd see an increase in ewar module usage (and a decrease in hp tank).

600+ HP Scouts are a joke; they should be the exception, not the norm. We hope to see fewer of these abominations come Charlie; with luck, the ham-fisted slayer crowd will migrate to the Assault frame. Should they linger, we look forward to implementation of efficacy bonuses come Delta.

All that to say, the Scout Community agrees with a number of your assessments and has been working collectively toward seeing these issues resolved. Yatta yatta.

---

While I'm here .... aren't you an uber-logi?

Seeing as Scouts are doing their part, perhaps you can talk sense to some of your Heavy friends? They're a 'bit spam-sandwiched these days, and they are quite sensitive about it. At least when we bring up the issue.

Maybe you'll have better luck :-)

IMPORTANT:

To quickly answer that, cloaks never existed for a long time. This made it easy to pick off scouts from a long distance away. They also had less HP than every other role and could be quickly eliminated.

IMPORTANT:

Why are scouts now fulfilling a slayer class?

IMPORTANT:
The buff to scouts was a good thing. It made the class playable after so long and we immediately saw more players using scouts. It also diversified the fittings of a scout. Before, the slot layouts really limited the Minmatar and Gallente scouts as to what they could do.

IMPORTANT:
The Caldari Scout was introduced with huge advantages in its base stats. All other suits in the game need to use modules to get to these sorts of stats, whereas the Caldari Scout was essentially given free modules BUILT INTO the suit.