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[Long Detailed Post] CALDARI SCOUT IS OP

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Unlucky Fluke The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 4	Posted - 2014.07.22 05:49:00 - [1] - Quote And I thought a proto ferroscale plate cost less to fit and gave more HP than proto Shields??? isn't it 75 hp for the plate and 66 hp for the Shields? costing 23/8 for fitting a ferroscale plate and 57(?)/11 to fit the Shields? As I've had both the Gallente and Caldari suits at proto I dissagree, a lot. On my Gallente suit I get 233 Shields and 496 armor using 4 proto ferroscale plates. Yes it only has a 3 base armor rep speed but that doesn't matter, I can easily fit a triage hive, a normal hive (that can be swapped for allotek hives and a proto scaner) while still being able to fit a proto gun enhanced and even better sidearm in some cases and proto nades off course. No, Your entire OP is BS. I've mostly stopped using my Gal scout, its way too OP and still lots better than the Caldari. Come at me bro, hit me too hard and I'll toss Down 2 hives and rep 140 armor per impulse while still moving at max speed, 5.45 in move speed. Hit my Caldari scout hard and it takes almost 5 Seconds until I start getting 50 HP back, that stops as soon as I get hit by anything. Maxing my Caldari scout in a similar way, using all Shields and 1 proto ferroscale plate and 1 proto repping plate I get less HP, are slightly slower and I can in most cases only fit a basic sidearm and 2 compact hives.... EDIT: I don't disagree at all that scouts are in general way too good. But I certainly dissagree that for some reason the Caldari Scout is supposed to be better than the Gallente scout in any way, (Well except for it being more fun to use IMO), fit a Gal scout in a tryhardy way like the Gal logis of old and you become a very powerfull slayer indeed....
Unlucky Fluke The Rainbow Effect 11	Posted - 2014.07.24 06:42:00 - [2] - Quote I think the most valuable input here comes from the guys and girls having both the Caldari and the Gallente scout at proto Level, and have been using both for some time. Like myself. IMO the Gallente scout is superior in almost every way compared to the Caldari scout. As a tanked option I can get: 233 Shields 496 Armor (4x ferroscale) - And thats with full moment speed! - I can still fit either an allotek hive and a proto scanner or a triage + a normal hive. Aswell as a proto weapon and nades and a decent sidearm. Yes I only have an armor rep speed of 3 - but in most cases the 233 Shields + a little armor is enough, when hard pressed or severaly damaged I simply put Down a triage hive. As a tanked Caldari scout I can get: 453 Shields (not the 493 that some claim in this thread) 236 Armor With a rep speed of 2 (1 Ferro and 1 reactive making it a whopping 1% slower...) But With a proto gun, proto nades and a decent sidearm I can only fit 2 compact nanohives, so the suit is "Filled up in a way". As opposed to the Galente suit where I can fit proto uplinks on it and a compact hive or whatever I want really... I find it disturbing that the OP has a proto Gallente scout and claims that the Caldari is so much better and should be nerfed. I call total BS on it. I'd very much like to know how OP fits the Gallente scout, it will perhaps lead me to understand why the OP makes these moronic claims.... My main is famous!
Unlucky Fluke The Rainbow Effect 12	Posted - 2014.07.24 10:51:00 - [3] - Quote You don't say what Equipment you will typically use. Also: A shotgun fit is something of a "specialised role IMO" - typically using kin kats, dampeners etc. I hear no mention of the use of repping hives, they might be an abomination used on a scout suit, but extremely effective non the less. - With the same sort of Logic as you use, the Caldari scouts currently need to use 1 high slot for a Precision enhancer to take advantage of their role bonus, 2 after the upcoming hotfix. That is sacrificing primary tank is it not? Anyways: I thought the main issue here was the brick tanked slayer scouts roamng the battlefield, not the "scouty scout"... This is a fitting which is so good and OP using a Gallente scout as a pure slayer scout that I've mostly stopped using it, it has everything it needs to fight frontline style vs anything: (Note the use of a Scrambler pistol, both for fitting reasons and for the very effective "tap them 3-4 times With a pistol and switch to Your CR when they start to move about strategy", that weapon combo is insanely good.... Scout gk.0 57,690 Complex Shield Extender 4,275 Complex Shield Extender 4,275 Complex Ferroscale Plates 3,945 Complex Ferroscale Plates 3,945 Complex Ferroscale Plates 3,945 Complex Ferroscale Plates 3,945 Boundless Combat Rifle 47,220 Scrambler Pistol 675 Core Locus Grenade 14,160 CreoDron Flux Active Scanner 18,885 Allotek Nanohive (R) 28,335 ISK Estimated Cost: ~ 191,295 - The main thing to notice here is the versatility the Equipment gives, very good scan, good reps and plenty of ammo. - It also has no speed penalty while still having insane amounts of HP = 725. Good forbid you should have 6 of these in a Squad With 3 of them swapping scanners for repairkits.... CPU 431 / 433.125 gF PG 92.5 / 97.125 kW Shield 87.5 [232.7] HP Armor 162.5 [492.5] HP No icon eHP 250 [725.2] HP Shield Recharge Rate 30 HP/s Shield Recharge Delay 4 s Shield Dep. Rec. Delay 6 [6.87] s Armor Repair Rate 3 HP/s Movement Speed 5.45 m/s Strafe Speed 4.91 m/s Sprint Speed 8.01 m/s Stamina 210 Stamina Recovery Rate 31.5 /s Scan Profile 22.76 dB Scan Precision 32.4 dB Scan Radius 31.5 m Challenge for IzayzI: - Go into protofits and set up a Caldari slayer scout fitting as best you can, see for yourselves how it copares to this one. As I've mentioned before, you get roughly the same HP, With the same weaponry, but you can just forget about fitting stuff like a proto scanner, or indeed that and something else as expensive to fit as these Allotek hives which cost what? Is it 88/16? Well unless you fit other armor plates than the proto ferroscale / repping plate combo making it slower... My main is famous!
Unlucky Fluke The Rainbow Effect 13	Posted - 2014.07.24 11:13:00 - [4] - Quote Wel, I'll make it easy for you: - Using the same fitting as far as its possible/relevant I get these numbers for the Caldari scout: Scout ck.0 57,690 Complex Shield Extender 4,275 Complex Shield Extender 4,275 Complex Shield Extender 4,275 Complex Shield Extender 4,275 Complex Ferroscale Plates 3,945 Complex Reactive Plates 3,945 Boundless Combat Rifle 47,220 Scrambler Pistol 675 Core Locus Grenade 14,160 Compact Nanohive 900 CreoDron Flux Active Scanner 18,885 The compact hive can in theory be swapped for a nanohive, but that's hardly worthwhile since it needs the PG uppgrade skills to be maxed at both the CR and the pistol, the fitting above is only possible if you have maxed out the PG skill of the CR- and lets be realistic- Who would spend that many SP for a 2 point reduction? CPU 436.5 / 456.75 gF PG 84.5 / 86.625 kW Shield 162.5 [452.9] HP Armor 87.5 [236] HP No icon eHP 250 [688.9] HP Shield Recharge Rate 50 HP/s Shield Recharge Delay 3 s Shield Dep. Rec. Delay 4 [5.24] s Armor Repair Rate 0 [3] HP/s Movement Speed 5.45 [5.4] m/s Strafe Speed 4.91 [4.86] m/s Sprint Speed 8.01 [7.93] m/s Stamina 210 Stamina Recovery Rate 31.5 /s Scan Profile 26.78 dB Scan Precision 27 dB Scan Radius 34.5 m Negative qualities for the Caldari scout: Slightly less HP (37) Slightly slower (1%) There is no point in having a teammate using a repair kit. Very hard to fit - I mean: This fiting is barely doable With maxed out skills, it has the same scanner but here I use a compact hive cmpared to the Allotek hive of the Gallente scout, think what this does in terms of other fits possible, proto uplinks cost a lot to fit, so does the cloak etc.... Negative Qualities for the Gallente scout: Not self repping - this is not really a point IMO due to the use of rephives. 40 HP or indeed 80 per impulse in a pinch With the allotek hive - or why not 70 HP or indeed 140 hp per impulse With the use of Triage hives, you can still fit enhanced ammo giving hives without sacrificing anything else. They will eventually run out but then you're not doing it right IMO... OR - why you can go down to 1 or 2 enhanced extenders and fit both the triage hive and the allotek hive, giving you 6 repping hives 3 of which gives ammo...(I run the proto (gives you 4 ammo giving hives) and the triage on my MD fitting) - I might be missing some vast truth in all of this, my experience with running these 2 suits since the suit respec is that the Caldari is the most fun, but in a any sort of competitive game or indeed in PC, the Gallente scout is superior. My main is famous!
Unlucky Fluke The Rainbow Effect 14	Posted - 2014.07.24 11:29:00 - [5] - Quote And lastly: (Well since you have a long serious OP I will give a long serious answer...) - That all scouts should be reduces from their slayer roles might be true, I'm only here to highlight the wrongfulness of the claim that the Caldari is superior to the Gallente scout... - Fitting max tank on a Caldari scout and a Kin Kat, do that in Protofits and see how much you're left with, do the same with the Gallente scout and you'll still have more HP, and more room to fit guns and equiment - this argument is not valid at all IMO and is the sort of argument typically coming from people not owning the suit which aren't used to fitting it... And I have tried to run the Caldari suit with no armor on it and it just doesn't work, I've gotten better results all over the line whith using ferroscale plate + repper or now recently a repping plate due to the fiting cost change. - That the Caldari is harder to hit (I have seen no evidence of that, I slay them just as easy (or hard) as any other suit) is strictly a Programming issue or bug of some kind, its not the stats of the suit thats the reason and its therefore hardly a valid argument for its nerf.... - Find me someone that has used both suits extensively that agrees with you, I doubt such a person excist.... My main is famous!
Unlucky Fluke The Rainbow Effect 14	Posted - 2014.07.24 12:20:00 - [6] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Who the **** puts alloteks on their scout? What is this? That was the stupid Gal Logi strategy that never worked well. Again the Cal Scout wins because they don't need a scanner to scan or a nanohive to rep back their pool of HP. You didn't ask me what I thought a "competitive" fit was, you just asked me wwhat my own fit was and for the record I use a cloak and a compact hive If I wanted to build a "slayer" scout (which I wowuldn't ever do because I have two different proto assaults, commandos, and sentinels which are the ones who should be slaying anyways), it would look something like this: ACR/CR SMG if possible Grenade? 2x complex extender 3x enhanced plates (possibly basic if too much speed penalty) 1x complex armor repair Relying on equipment to keep you alive is silly if you're a scout. You need the extra armor repair, possibly two modules. I guess the number of plates is really all dependant on how much of a crazy strafer you are. Look at those stats, they are directly copy pasted from Protofits FFS. the Caldari scout has: Scan Profile 26.78 dB Scan Precision 27 dB Scan Radius 34.5 m The Gallente has: Scan Profile 22.76 dB Scan Precision 32.4 dB Scan Radius 31.5 m So by Your Logic the 3 extra M of scanning range of the Caldari suit warrants the negation of a scanner that can scan 200 M at 90 degree angle? That was just an example, well the one I use, same equipment due to equal fitting cost for easier comparison. Should I come here and claim that the Caldari suit needs a profile dampener to compensate for the Gallente's role bonus - so that it leads to my fitting losing another 80+ HP compared to the Gallente, making the Galente suit having roughly 20% more total HP in this case... Well my ingame performance with that setup says otherwise. Its the setup I've been having the most success With, as I mentioned, it was OP to the point where I've stopped using it. "Not on a scout" LOL - try thinking outside the Box. Come at me With anything (LOL other than a flux...) When I have a super fast strafing almost 500 armor scout who gets 140 HP back per impulse. I've had situations where I've taken on multiple fatties that way, just hide the hives on a corner, og back there for 5 Seconds and you're good to go... You say: Who the *** puts alloteks on their scout?* (ETC) Armor tanking is IMO not very effective when exclusively used with self repping, its way too slow and you sacrifice way too much tank if you want it to be fast. So either: Use some hives or play in a squad with a repair tool or two. Just ROFL at the armor tanker - no matter what suit you use - complaining and claiming the shield tanked suits should be nerfed due to high rep speed while you yourself use armor the "wrong way" or at least - the less effective way. I don't use my suit properly - please nerf the other suit..... So go into protofits please - make me a Caldari scout fit and present the stats here - its much more useful than blurting out this and that without even checking whats even possible to fit on the damn suit.... Make me a fitting that is OP - I don't think you can. Edit: At the end I found out that the most effective Caldari Assault setup I could make was With a CPU uppgrade and 2 basic plates in low slots - and With an Allotek hive.... My main is famous!
Unlucky Fluke The Rainbow Effect 14	Posted - 2014.07.24 15:33:00 - [7] - Quote I've seen plenty of Gal scout clubs owning everything with dampeners and cloaks, maybe less as of late. I have not on the other hand seen so many Cal scouts, but I do believe you are right on that point. All I'm really trying to state here is that the Cal scout isn't any better than the Gal scout, only different. On another point, I do disagree on the Cal scout you suggest, being able to only restock ammo once is far too little IMO, but that can easily be avoided by swapping the Kin kat for a ferro plate. Going from 8 to a 9 run speed is not worth sacrificing 82.5 hp and beter hives for, but then I am a sort of player that easily runs out of ammo. I can also set up a similar fitting with the Gal scout and I get: 233 shields 30 rep speed after 4 sec 311 armor and thats with 2 ferro plates - no penalty 24.75 armor rep - no movement penalty - no kin kat but who cares about 8 vs 9 m per sec with a gun like that???? and I have 18 PG and 45 CPU left over.... I'd love to keep at it but I'm of for a concert, I'll be back toorrow :) My main is famous!

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