As judge has said, when you're facing an ADS it's not the same as facing a protosuit. It's facing a proto suit with one of the best players in the game behind it.

Ever ran into 1st lieutenant Tiberius or frost kitty in a pub? I have, I've seen them get 70-100 kills between the two of them while rarely dying. That's what it's like to face a really good dropship pilot. Furthermore any 'really good' infantry player will consistently perform a *lot* better than said ADS.

I personally don't like people feeling helpless (as it very much can feel when facing vehicle players either without AV skills yourself, or with really good infantry support that prevents you from AV), but what you're commenting on is balancing for skill. If you make weapons more powerful the less skilled die all the time, and the more skilled might die marginally more often, but they'll still probably get away more often than not.

Its about the skill of the pilot vs the skill of the av, the equipment its self isnt the issue, ive had games where 3 or more forge have failed to down me, and other games where a pro fg has landed every shot and killed me before i could retreat, as for the python, they arent that good my incubus rips them to bits.

Yes, like I said, the incubus isn't the issue, and it can be a counter to the Python because it can keep up with it (at least better than and other unit other than another Python).

An ADS pilot is one of the best people in the game and have a lot going against them from the start of the match which you have mostly listed but don't forget other DS ship ramming tactics also makes it harder.

The ADS in itself is an underpowered price of machine that needs to get a slight buff and hit detection rework but it is the player behind it, coupled with a lot of experience and knowledge on what to do in almost situations that make it 'feel' like it is overpowered.

Also remember they also need to invest a lot of skill points and isk into their roll verses infantry too... I'm both ADS and an infantry and learnt valuable lessons on what to do and what not to do while flying around in an ADS.

The python is almost there, a few changes could be made to make it truly balanced.

First do away with the assault dropship, and racial assault dropship skill stacking. I think everyone is in agreement there.

I put forward an idea to curve the engagement length by increasing clip size of the small missile turret and decreasing damage per missile to keep the same damage per clip as it is now. Nothing drastic, say 4 missile increase with damage reduction as needed to keep the damage potential.
This would lengthen the engagement time needed of the dropship and reward accurate shot placement as well as making the pythons speed and ROF bonuses more prevalent. This would also encourage teamwork and fitting turrets for gunners rather than fitting max tank and soloing, which would in turn lower a pythons tank. My python has 2508 shields with 3 xt-1s, I have max fitting skills.
I agree that dropships shouldn't be as powerful as they are with a solo pilot and I feel this small change could limit what a solo pilot could do without making it unviable to run. I do feel that you should be able to play as you want, but dropships are team vehicles and should be heavily emphasized as such.

What do you think?

Yes I have played and killed at least Kitty. Proto Gal SG scout right? She/he did get close or over 50 kills in that match, but I downed her/him once, and got a kill assist on a second. It was memorable enough that, well, I remember it.

Your point about making the weapons more power is why I ask for discussion. I know that AV is in a relatively good place co paired to both pre and post 1.7.

I think I'm a decent AV'r. So what does it mean when I cannot take something down? What was my mistake in that video. Remove the one time where all three volleys hit him. Had I been rolling a second 5% mod, or been a minmando, he probably would've fallen. Take for the sake of argument that this guy wasn't that good of a pilot (anyone ever heard of him?) and my description of the Dom match to be factual, what is the answer to that level of skill matched with that level of potential. In the case of Kitty, her weakness was my Cal Scout and SCR. I was able to stalk her and deal enough damage quickly to neutralizer her at least once. But at least there was a readily available method. What is the true counter to a Python with a high skilled pilot in the cockpit other than luck or an equally skilled ADS/Pilot combo?

I know it's asking a lot, but I'd like a good discussion on this with real pilots and real AV guys. I don't want an IWIN button any more than the good pilots of Dust should. So Atiim, Numbnutz, Judge? Care to weigh in?

Proficiency V Swarms, 48M SP (Scout)

It is incredibly frustrating (and often risky) to volley swarms at a bird for an entire match. That said, birds are incredibly expensive, pose less threat than tanks, and require significant skill to pilot. Its a good thing that they're hard to kill, and I don't think I should be able to solo a decent pilot in a 500k+ aircraft.

Pythons from a Swarmer's Perspective
* Frustrating? Absolutely.
* Broken? Unlikely.

They can't outright ignore me anymore; I am satisfied.

Swarmers instantly go to #1 on my kill list when I fly. You should be honored to be considered such a threat by me.

(unlike tanks) require skill and effort to pilot.

I am sad that you think tanks require no skill.

I would love to weigh in. I wonder If we might talk in game first. So much to type I don't want to repeat a wall of text if you are up to speed.

Ill just add for info here I have Proto swarms, Proto Minnmando, max swarm prof. I have done both sides.

The python is almost there, a few changes could be made to make it truly balanced.

First do away with the assault dropship, and racial assault dropship skill stacking. I think everyone is in agreement there.

I put forward an idea to curve the engagement length by increasing clip size of the small missile turret and decreasing damage per missile to keep the same damage per clip as it is now. Nothing drastic, say 4 missile increase with damage reduction as needed to keep the damage potential.
This would lengthen the engagement time needed of the dropship and reward accurate shot placement as well as making the pythons speed and ROF bonuses more prevalent. This would also encourage teamwork and fitting turrets for gunners rather than fitting max tank and soloing, which would in turn lower a pythons tank. My python has 2508 shields with 3 xt-1s, I have max fitting skills.
I agree that dropships shouldn't be as powerful as they are with a solo pilot and I feel this small change could limit what a solo pilot could do without making it unviable to run. I do feel that you should be able to play as you want, but dropships are team vehicles and should be heavily emphasized as such.

What do you think?

I am sad that you think tanks require no skill.

The worst part has to be the fact that I can't disagree anymore.


As for pythons, I don't find them as frustrating as Incubi, tbh. I'm only prof 3 FG but the sheer durability means I can't really kill them, thanks to my low speeds.

Last Incubus I killed (or had a hand in killing, rather) was Beld, actually. Took three of us. I had a Gastun's.

I dont like where you are going with this, i think that if you want a crewed dropship you must ask for the normal drop ships to be made stronger and more suited to that role,, the ads imo should be a solo craft filling the role of attack helicopter, i would not be upset if it had no extra seats at all, but i am biased and but hurt about being rendered impotent against skill stacked crews.

@ Atiim: We do get a bonus to rate of fire, but not damage.

Are you sure?

I could've sworn ADS Operation gave a 2% Damage bonus per level.

Why focus exclusively on pythons?

I have a theory. Because incubus pilots had their crutch nerfed, their lack of skills as a ADS pilot became... obvious. Python pilots who have always had it rougher honed their skills. The result would be pythons would appear to be harder to kill than incubus, when in reality aren't. Armored vehicles actually have more base EHP than shield vehicles.



So if you don't have trouble downing incubus, then you shouldn't have trouble downing pythons. Of course python pilots tend to be more experienced than incubus pilots.

Special thanks to protofits for the numbers.

@ Atiim: We do get a bonus to rate of fire, but not damage.

Why focus exclusively on pythons?

I have a theory. Because incubus pilots had their crutch nerfed, their lack of skills as a ADS pilot became... obvious. Python pilots who have always had it rougher honed their skills. The result would be pythons would appear to be harder to kill than incubus, when in reality aren't. Armored vehicles actually have more base EHP than shield vehicles.



So if you don't have trouble downing incubus, then you shouldn't have trouble downing pythons. Of course python pilots tend to be more experienced than incubus pilots.

Special thanks to protofits for the numbers.

@ Atiim: We do get a bonus to rate of fire, but not damage.

As a player who almost exclusively pilots Pythons when he plays now, I can say without a doubt that the Python is only about as powerful, maybe less so, than an above-average infantry player in a slayer role. I actually still consistently outscore myself when I go back to ground. It's definitely superior in a solo AV role, however, as it can actually stick to the land bound HAVs unless they fully retreat into the redline and can solo kill with a good amount of skill (player and SP) investment. But this applies to the Incubus as well, so this point is kind of moot.

I think people's problems with the Python lie in its excellent versatility even among the dropship class. It can stick to a target easily with its superior agility and the splash radius of missiles is much more forgiving for attacking smaller targets than the pinpoint railgun with its tiny reticule. It also, y'know, flies, so it can take out improperly defended high ground targets and easily destroys uplinks by being able to avoid all the land-based obstacles. Small missiles are also the best weapon for a bird to use for just general purposes, equally capable of fighting infantry and vehicles alike, making the Python something of a flying omnisoldier with a very strong bonus to said weapon with 2+ million SP invested in a single skill capable of attacking almost any high-value target at almost any time. Additionally, with its high regen, no single minor threat can make it back off for long.

All that said, however, the Python falls easily to alpha damage with its lower max HP but higher regen shield tank (as it should), and its lighter frame seems to be a bit more susceptible to being knocked into buildings, which is problematic for me with the increased collision damage. All it takes to keep me away is one or two good forge gunners in a good firing position, possibly with backup from a swarmer or two to keep me off target. With good players AVing, I can't even get in close enough to land more than one or two accurate missiles, if that. If the alpha is high enough, I die. If not, I still have to back off for a pretty long time, praying I don't eat a second or third hit as I retreat, and you still have a major threat in the area to continue keeping me at bay.

AV versus a Python is a bit delicately balanced in my opinion. Swarms are an actual legitimate threat again, especially in numbers, and Forge Guns make me back off unless the user can't aim. They're certainly doing their jobs well, but they are indeed nudging a little close to 1.6 lethality, and with the addition of WP for AVers, I've seen more of them than ever before in just the few times I've played since. They're not at broken levels, but they do pack just a smidge more punch than I'm comfortable with. I can see why swarmers would be frustrated though, with the inferior damage profile versus shields and the Python's ability to outrun them when in danger.

Overall, Pythons are in a good place, yes, but they are not overpowered. They do have quite a bit going for them, but they're no more powerful than some of the stuff on the ground. The only time they really shine is when there is little to no competent AV threatening them, and they are by no means unbeatable.

One last thing. If you put an AB on a Python, you're sacrificing one of three tank slots, Atiim. With how expensive a single bird is, I much prefer having higher HP and just using unpredictable dodging maneuvers. I can't speak for other Python pilots, but I imagine many of them feel the same way.

tl;dr Pythons are strong in the right hands, but not OP.

Why focus exclusively on pythons?

I have a theory. Because incubus pilots had their crutch nerfed, their lack of skills as a ADS pilot became... obvious. Python pilots who have always had it rougher honed their skills. The result would be pythons would appear to be harder to kill than incubus, when in reality aren't. Armored vehicles actually have more base EHP than shield vehicles.



So if you don't have trouble downing incubus, then you shouldn't have trouble downing pythons. Of course python pilots tend to be more experienced than incubus pilots.

Special thanks to protofits for the numbers.

@ Atiim: We do get a bonus to rate of fire, but not damage.

Your point about the difference in pilots comes off arrogant but does have validity. The changes to reps, resistance, and swarm prof probably did have a lot to do with my success vs them this weekend, and in time they may adjust and cause me to change my tune about them.

Pythons are OP as ****, it's why they're the preferred ship of most ADS pilots.

Any idiot that mentions Incubus having more HP as some kind of balancing factor is just that; an idiot. Almost all forms of AV do massive bonus damage to armor, and are much easier to hit the significantly slower, larger, and less agile Incubus.

Pythons are scrub tubs

It doesn't really matter.

Cause at the end of the day, any dropship will be taken out by decent dual forgers

I played a Dom match on Fracture Road where there was a Full Skilled ADS (could tell by the ROF of his cannon) who was up against myself, another swarm, and 2 forge at one point. Dudes name was one I'd not seen before, Jack something I think, went 24/0 that match despite the AV Aass he was up against.

So the question I have is despite skill and cost, should anything be that powerful?

Let's take this from the standpoint that holding back (not killing) is enough. My video shows that even though I could kill that ADS, at least I was able to prevent him from doing much damage. In the case of the Dom match (which unfortunately I deleted the footage in rate) 4 of us couldn't neutralize. A quick boost around the map and it's back to full health, unlike an Incubus that has to lick its wounds for a bit.

Well, firstly, thanks for the kudos; I wonder if that was me (that match sounds familiar)!

Anyways.

With the python, the things that it has going for it are:
+ Free HP regen
+ Resistance to swarms
+ Missile bonuses (wow)
+ Above average agility

Sounds OP right? Well, the issues it still has are these, which is why I often fly incubus instead:
- Like glass against collisions
- Unpredictable collisions
- Vulnerable to shield stripping by rails and forges (think of the range here)
- Both of which throw its light frame all over the place
- Causing collisions

What I'm trying to say is, as a pilot of both Cal and Gal ships, they are situational beasts. In the right hands, operating them properly, they can each survive where the other cannot, and also destroy targets that the others cannot. Pilots who ***** all the time are generally using very ineffective fits - after much experimenting I now know my ships' limits.

All that I'd ask for is *slightly* less swarm damage (just as MLT swarms PWN dropships now), and the cost of the ADS to be toned down a bit. I'd like to see more dropships flown for infantry support again. But hey, it's DUST!

Wait, so the issues you named were collision damage, forge and rails. Going for it you list resistance to swarms, yet you would like less swarm damage?

speaking of crutches I hope you actually fly pythons cause i look forward to showing you the crutch of my incubi's landing gear after I down that one trick pony, you're quick to quote numbers in your argument but don't actually know the skills that apply to the dropships, which imo makes your opinion completely worthless.

Ah, my bad.

I meant to say that I don't like the power of MLT swarms. I didn't mention collisions as I have given up on them being fixed!

Swarms have needed a buff for ages, and it's nice to see that they are finally useful.
However, I feel a little cheated that an MLT weapon can easily solo my very much Proto ship. Even if they don't kill me, they jump above everything else to the top of my threat list. At MLT level.

So, redacting my original statement, I would ask for more scaling of swarm damage. Proto and advanced are great, but MLT and standard are a bit much right now I think.

But that's just my opinion!

So I spent this past weekend in full AV mode. Had a lot of fun. There wasn't a single vehicle type that I didn't down except the Python.

I'm torn because to me the Python is similar to the SCR. It is a massively powerful weapon, but balanced with massive drawbacks, however, in the right hands, it can become God mode.

I made an AV commentary this weekend. I chose this game more for the variety of things an AV player has to keep in mind that was contained in one game, but it was hard for me to not turn it into a Python ***** fest.

Let me say this. I have GREAT respect for DS and ADS pilots. I thing you guys have had to put up with plenty of **** like redline rails, RDVs, grazing impact damage, invisible swarms and such, not to mention the ludicrous cost of those things that justifiably puts you guys on a different level. Your craft has never been an IWIN button. But this video I think does a good job of showing that there wasn't much more I could bring to the table short of a second body to bring this guy down. And this wasn't the worst.

I played a Dom match on Fracture Road where there was a Full Skilled ADS (could tell by the ROF of his cannon) who was up against myself, another swarm, and 2 forge at one point. Dudes name was one I'd not seen before, Jack something I think, went 24/0 that match despite the AV Aass he was up against.

So the question I have is despite skill and cost, should anything be that powerful?

Let's take this from the standpoint that holding back (not killing) is enough. My video shows that even though I could kill that ADS, at least I was able to prevent him from doing much damage. In the case of the Dom match (which unfortunately I deleted the footage in rate) 4 of us couldn't neutralize. A quick boost around the map and it's back to full health, unlike an Incubus that has to lick its wounds for a bit.

I know it's asking a lot, but I'd like a good discussion on this with real pilots and real AV guys. I don't want an IWIN button any more than the good pilots of Dust should. So Atiim, Numbnutz, Judge? Care to weigh in?

http://youtu.be/dMyyBYpaQ7E

If a player with AV manages to out-smart you, then they deserve to "solo" you, regardless of tier. I (nor anyone) should be able to purchase an advantage by simply spending ISK. That not only creates a terrible NPE, but removes the skill aspect from the engagements as well.

The scaling of Swarm Launchers is already by 25% per tier, which is higher than any Item (including Vehicle Items), in DUST 514. And because of this, they are garbage at any other tier below PRO (maybe ADV if the Pilot's a scrub). I'd say they need less of a damage scaling to allow for players to be successful without having to spend large amounts of ISK on PRO gear.

Not to mention that the MLT Swarm Launcher is already hindered in terms of DPS (and Applied DPS), due to it's lower clip size than the other variants.

My advice to you, would be to become better at flying your aircraft, and use a Shield Hardener. MLT SLs already deal 704HP against Shields, and using a Hardener would bring that down to a low 422HP. That requires over 6 volleys of concentrated fire, which makes it impossible for MLT Swarms to "solo" without depleting it's ammo reserves.

Which may seem trivial, but most players with MLT Swarms are in Starter Fits and don't equip Nanohives.

If this is the same guy who I described in the OP from that Dom match then I would classify him as a really good pilot. Like I said 24/0 in a dom with me and a few others pinging him for most of the match, and he wasn't engaging the outskirts, he spent most of the game protecting the single objective on that map. However, I think he is mistaken on what swarm if hurting him. MLT and even ADV is so garbage compaired to Proto that I as an AV guy have no suits equipped with them. It is the only Proto weapon I use regularly. I think he is just mistaken on what he is getting hit by.

In a Python I agree, but with an Incubus even MLT swarms are incredibly threatening. The damage profile is insane right now. Proto swarms are just off the charts.

In a Python I agree, but with an Incubus even MLT swarms are incredibly threatening. The damage profile is insane right now. Proto swarms are just off the charts.

to be honest i think av vs vehicles is now fine. Not too powerfull but aswell not a nonfactor like it was in the past. And to be honest if you are using the LAV why not use a forgegun? instant damage application and if you woulda have gotten 2 hits on that python he woulda have fall like a brick.

So I spent this past weekend in full AV mode. Had a lot of fun. There wasn't a single vehicle type that I didn't down except the Python.

I'm torn because to me the Python is similar to the SCR. It is a massively powerful weapon, but balanced with massive drawbacks, however, in the right hands, it can become God mode.

I made an AV commentary this weekend. I chose this game more for the variety of things an AV player has to keep in mind that was contained in one game, but it was hard for me to not turn it into a Python ***** fest.

Let me say this. I have GREAT respect for DS and ADS pilots. I thing you guys have had to put up with plenty of **** like redline rails, RDVs, grazing impact damage, invisible swarms and such, not to mention the ludicrous cost of those things that justifiably puts you guys on a different level. Your craft has never been an IWIN button. But this video I think does a good job of showing that there wasn't much more I could bring to the table short of a second body to bring this guy down. And this wasn't the worst.

I played a Dom match on Fracture Road where there was a Full Skilled ADS (could tell by the ROF of his cannon) who was up against myself, another swarm, and 2 forge at one point. Dudes name was one I'd not seen before, Jack something I think, went 24/0 that match despite the AV Aass he was up against.

So the question I have is despite skill and cost, should anything be that powerful?

Let's take this from the standpoint that holding back (not killing) is enough. My video shows that even though I could kill that ADS, at least I was able to prevent him from doing much damage. In the case of the Dom match (which unfortunately I deleted the footage in rate) 4 of us couldn't neutralize. A quick boost around the map and it's back to full health, unlike an Incubus that has to lick its wounds for a bit.

I know it's asking a lot, but I'd like a good discussion on this with real pilots and real AV guys. I don't want an IWIN button any more than the good pilots of Dust should. So Atiim, Numbnutz, Judge? Care to weigh in?

http://youtu.be/dMyyBYpaQ7E

The only reason the python is good is because it can "Strafe" in air. Evading shots is it's strong point and the main reason it can't be killed.

But to be honest, it all really depends on the pilot. If the pilot stands still I can kill the python in two shots with my proto dusl plasma cannon commando. I did so twice to the same guy who just wanted to stand still to kill people with his python.

I personally am both a dedicated AVer and Incubus pilot, I do both roles regularly, sometimes I even AV in my Incubus.

Firstly in that specific video (rather enjoyed it by the way) , the Python pilot in question should have been brought to rites on multiple occassions, he overstretched the abilities of his craft and you caught him in compromising positions on more than one occasion.

Secondly as an Incubus pilot, I sometimes have gotten away with the closest of shaves, I've come by to do an attack run on what I thought to be a single swarmer, only to find 3-5 waiting for me. In such cases I've reached the safety of my redline and the protection of the MCC's motherly figure with less than 50 EHP remaining. Not because I got out in time, I stuck around too long and pushed my luck on almost every occasion, the reason I survived was because I could simply 'turn 'n' burn".

I could travel fast enough to either stagger the volley enough to allow for my armour reppers to undo the damage, or just out distance them and laugh as 3 whole volleys explode harmlessly behind me. Now as pilot this is nice, after all I don't loose my expensive dropship, I can recall it until the skies are a little safer again.

However as an AVer I can't count the amount of times a Dropship has just plain outrun my swarms, sometimes on the smallest sliver off health I have launched entire mags in their direction, yet hit nothing but air. As an AVer it's just damn annoying, especially when I know he will back again soon for more.

That said though I don't believe any of it is down to Damage per Volley or DPS or even anything under either players control. It is simply down to the speed of swarm launchers, the acceleration is sluggish at best and the top speed makes my grandmothers mobility scooter look like a drag racer. All you need to do is increase the
Gùå Acceleration
Gùå Top Speed
Gùå Maximum Travel Distance
Gùå Unguided Travel Distance
While decreasing turning circle and the time to fire the volley. No changes to damage, or DPS just make it harder for a Dropship to outrun his killing blow. Now a lot of you may say It takes skill to outrun swarms, to which I respectfully request that you shut your festering pie hole you t*t (Monty Python, if you don't understand my sudden outburst of profanity), it takes skill to outmanoeuvre a swarm volley, causing them to hit terrain as opposed to your craft, but there is no skill to
Gùå Blasting to the flight ceiling, like a lightning ||
Gùå Flying really really fast in a straight line

Yet these are currently the 2 best ways to avoid an incoming volley, which in my opinion should not happen.

I am glad it is just not me. I played against Numbnutz the other night and I just couldn't bring him down or even really hurt him, on the other hand he went 4-0 with 3 of those kills against me so I was able to limit his effectiveness. Pythons are too powerful and too expensive. The price should drop way down and they should be a little less durable, but the changes should be small and incremental in nerfing. Its not only the ship that makes them powerful, but also that you have to be a good pilot to risk a Python. I am impressed with the way these pilots can maneuver, use cover and so quickly identify a threat. That's why I couldn't kill Numbnutz, I'd get one shot but then he was on me, or he would loop around and wait for me to expose myself.

Gùå Flying really really fast in a straight line

Yet these are currently the 2 best ways to avoid an incoming volley, which in my opinion should not happen.

*eye twitches* you have no idea.
Besides, the changes to av that you suggested are rediculous.
Nobody should EVER be able to take down a 500k dropship singlehandedly. ever.
These range increases are reversing what happend in 1.6, the fixing of paper airplanes.

All that I'd ask for is *slightly* less swarm damage (just as MLT swarms PWN dropships now)

You can eat my pro5 clip then get away as I reload. That's plenty of warning.
You can also OHK me with your missile launcher.

I'm gonna go with ... no.

Not saying I agree but dropships can't eat a clip of prof5 proto swarms and happily fly away.

I'm actually really glad to hear that. Btw, love your work and good luck with the naming. So as an AV weapon in general can you describe the improvements of the PLC? How much success have you had bringing down vehicles with it since the change compaired to before? I'm thinking of making it my next weapon.

Ah, my bad.

I meant to say that I don't like the power of MLT swarms. I didn't mention collisions as I have given up on them being fixed!

Swarms have needed a buff for ages, and it's nice to see that they are finally useful.
However, I feel a little cheated that an MLT weapon can easily solo my very much Proto ship. Even if they don't kill me, they jump above everything else to the top of my threat list. At MLT level.

So, redacting my original statement, I would ask for more scaling of swarm damage. Proto and advanced are great, but MLT and standard are a bit much right now I think.

But that's just my opinion!

Not saying I agree but dropships can't eat a clip of prof5 proto swarms and happily fly away.

*eye twitches* you have no idea.
Besides, the changes to av that you suggested are rediculous.
Nobody should EVER be able to take down a 500k dropship singlehandedly. ever.
These range increases are reversing what happend in 1.6, the fixing of paper airplanes.

Are you worried what those changes would mean to the rest of the Dropships out there? While I completely agree that swarms are WAY to slow. I mean I can throw a football faster than those things travel, and I was in marching band. I'm worried that a buff to them would be devastating to the rest of the Dropships.

Edit: however I have said in the past, if we are going to talk realism, swarms should travel faster yes, but pilots should also have RAW gear so when they get painted, Bitchin Betty lets them know. I once suggested counter measures, but in reality, that is what a shield booster already is.

I said "get away". I never said "happily".

And Pythons do it to me all the time (pro swarms, pro5, +2 cmp dmg).
Easy cheesy to replicate.

Though I'm a Scout; I haven't tried it as a Commando.

(Do note that I'm not complaining; I think an ADS should be able to get away while I reload. I'm objecting to the earlier 'nerf swarms' request on the grounds that you guys already have a good chance to get away from a single swarmer).

It confuses me that people run scouts for swarms, why do you do this? Is it for the damps? Because yeah my prototype missiles will one shot you. Minmandos can solo a python with prof 5 swarms and a DMG mod or two in one clip plus have a cr to defend themselves with and have more HP.

I do agree that there is no reason to Nerf swarms, tho I also don't see a reason to buff them.

I touched on this a few times in the video in the OP. While the pro minmando with pro 5 swarm may be the best infantry DS killing platform, it's lack of a grenade slot and only 1 equipment slot make it kind of a 1 trick pony. For all around AV and survivability when vehicle hunting you need to be fast, aware, and carry a multitude of tools. As a scout with swarms, good sidearm, REs, AV grenades, and Hives, even without an LAV I can get around relatively unmolested due to a low profile. I can avoid or assassinate stray Reds that as a mando I would have no choice to engage,

Remember as much as every DS in the air is a prime target for anyone with a swarm launcher, a merc using a swarm launcher is damn near EVERYONE'S primary target. You got a big ass smoke trail giving away your location Everytime you fire.

I've skilled minmando to 4, and it will be my next proto suit, but my Gal Scout will still be my primary platform.

Ah yes I should have specified running scouts with swarms to down a dropship. I understand the perks of running a scout when dealting with ground vehicles. My bad.
It would make sense to me that if a dedicated aver wanted a dropship gone he would switch out to his minmando and get to a good position.

I realize that, I was making the distinction that its not a happy situation taking 3 vollys of proto swarms. You end up limping away in a very vulnerable situation, its quite scary.

It confuses me that people run scouts for swarms, why do you do this? Is it for the damps? Because yeah my prototype missiles will one shot you. Minmandos can solo a python with prof 5 swarms and a DMG mod or two in one clip plus have a cr to defend themselves with and have more HP.

I do agree that there is no reason to Nerf swarms, tho I also don't see a reason to buff them.

so many people that argue from the pov that AV is underpowered talk about it from a solo perspective, you should see it from ours, you kill some loud mouthed slayer in a squad, the next thing you know you've got said loud mouth and his entire squad packing protoAV chasing a dropship all over the map in LAVs.

Every second guy you kill in this game respawns with some form of AV and some of those will spend the entire match trying to nail you, but people here want to see ADS regularly solo'd by 1 player.... every second game i've got 3 or 4 players baying for my blood, can't you see just how terribly unbalanced things would become if you got what you want?

I have every idea, I'm a regular pilot, I love doing it, did you skipover the part where I mentioned that prehaps.
How are they ridiculous? I have not buffed their damge, DPS, ROF, lock-on range or any other attributes that means a dropship will be killed any faster by a single person.

Meanwhile I have nerfed their tracking and 'fire and forget' capabilities.
By making the rockets travel further before they begin to track the user must keep the target closer to the center of the screen, even causing them to require leading a faster target, by nerfing the turning circle, a pilot is rewarded more if he successfully doges the missiles, since the can no longer pull out a 180 turn in less than 5m.

Everyone should ALWAYS be ABLE to take down any vehicle so long as 1 man uses it, wether they will or not is down to both players skill. ISK, SP should never be a factor I balance, you should take care t0in what you say youmare beginning to sound like a tanker.

These range increases are changing nothing from 1.6, the lock-on rane is still 150m the difference is that I order to outrun a set of missiles that have been launched within this range will require you flying faster and further or more skillfully in order to complete negate the damage.

Once again there are no changes to
1) Lock-On Range
2) Damage per volley
3) DPS
4) Amount of people required to combat a dropship
What has changed is
1) Distance swarms will chase you before exploding
2) Acceleration of Swarms once quidance kicks in
3) Top speed of Swarms under guidance
In positive to the AVer
4) Time for guidance to kick in
5) Turning circle of guided swarms
In positive to the pilot.

*eye twitches* you have no idea.
Besides, the changes to av that you suggested are rediculous.
Nobody should EVER be able to take down a 500k dropship singlehandedly. ever.
These range increases are reversing what happend in 1.6, the fixing of paper airplanes.