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Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
1659
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Posted - 2014.07.08 00:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
The python is almost there, a few changes could be made to make it truly balanced.
First do away with the assault dropship, and racial assault dropship skill stacking. I think everyone is in agreement there.
I put forward an idea to curve the engagement length by increasing clip size of the small missile turret and decreasing damage per missile to keep the same damage per clip as it is now. Nothing drastic, say 4 missile increase with damage reduction as needed to keep the damage potential.
This would lengthen the engagement time needed of the dropship and reward accurate shot placement as well as making the pythons speed and ROF bonuses more prevalent. This would also encourage teamwork and fitting turrets for gunners rather than fitting max tank and soloing, which would in turn lower a pythons tank. My python has 2508 shields with 3 xt-1s, I have max fitting skills.
I agree that dropships shouldn't be as powerful as they are with a solo pilot and I feel this small change could limit what a solo pilot could do without making it unviable to run. I do feel that you should be able to play as you want, but dropships are team vehicles and should be heavily emphasized as such.
What do you think? |
Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
1659
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Posted - 2014.07.08 00:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
ratamaq doc wrote:Beld Errmon wrote:Its about the skill of the pilot vs the skill of the av, the equipment its self isnt the issue, ive had games where 3 or more forge have failed to down me, and other games where a pro fg has landed every shot and killed me before i could retreat, as for the python, they arent that good my incubus rips them to bits. Yes, like I said, the incubus isn't the issue, and it can be a counter to the Python because it can keep up with it (at least better than and other unit other than another Python).
The incubus is the most deadly threat to a python, bar none. |
Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
1665
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Posted - 2014.07.08 03:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:The python is almost there, a few changes could be made to make it truly balanced.
First do away with the assault dropship, and racial assault dropship skill stacking. I think everyone is in agreement there.
I put forward an idea to curve the engagement length by increasing clip size of the small missile turret and decreasing damage per missile to keep the same damage per clip as it is now. Nothing drastic, say 4 missile increase with damage reduction as needed to keep the damage potential.
This would lengthen the engagement time needed of the dropship and reward accurate shot placement as well as making the pythons speed and ROF bonuses more prevalent. This would also encourage teamwork and fitting turrets for gunners rather than fitting max tank and soloing, which would in turn lower a pythons tank. My python has 2508 shields with 3 xt-1s, I have max fitting skills.
I agree that dropships shouldn't be as powerful as they are with a solo pilot and I feel this small change could limit what a solo pilot could do without making it unviable to run. I do feel that you should be able to play as you want, but dropships are team vehicles and should be heavily emphasized as such.
What do you think? I dont like where you are going with this, i think that if you want a crewed dropship you must ask for the normal drop ships to be made stronger and more suited to that role,, the ads imo should be a solo craft filling the role of attack helicopter, i would not be upset if it had no extra seats at all, but i am biased and but hurt about being rendered impotent against skill stacked crews.
An assault dropship is not a fighter, nor is it a gunship, it is a specialized dropship rigged for assaulting. It gives up two seats for more dakka and maneuverability and is ideal for transporting a small but skilled crew of shock troops into and out of hostile territory in lighting raids. If you don't like the transport/crew based element of the dropship then you aren't a dropship pilot. Not that that's a bad thing, but your trying to make the dropship something it isn't.
As I said in my op, assault dropship skill stacking needs to be removed. I don't want to make solo dropships completely unviable but it should be emphasized that the dropship is a crew based vehicle and there should be considerable benefits to having gunners/shock troopers along. |
Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
1666
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Posted - 2014.07.08 16:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:medomai grey wrote:Why focus exclusively on pythons? I have a theory. Because incubus pilots had their crutch nerfed, their lack of skills as a ADS pilot became... obvious. Python pilots who have always had it rougher honed their skills. The result would be pythons would appear to be harder to kill than incubus, when in reality aren't. Armored vehicles actually have more base EHP than shield vehicles. Python: 1,548 Shields / 960 Armor / 2,508 EHP
Incubus: 950 Shields / 2,362 Armor / 3,312 EHP
So if you don't have trouble downing incubus, then you shouldn't have trouble downing pythons. Of course python pilots tend to be more experienced than incubus pilots. 
Special thanks to protofits for the numbers.@ Atiim: We do get a bonus to rate of fire, but not damage. speaking of crutches I hope you actually fly pythons cause i look forward to showing you the crutch of my incubi's landing gear after I down that one trick pony, you're quick to quote numbers in your argument but don't actually know the skills that apply to the dropships, which imo makes your opinion completely worthless.
Only a solo pilot would think the python a one trick pony.
I think what grey was saying is that the av weapons only just recently got their proficiency bonus to armor applied. So the damage for forge and swarms was the same for both incubi and pythons. Since the incubus has more tank and is more resistant to collisions the pilots didn't have to be as careful as python pilots who had to disengage and dodge shots a lot more often. Rather than tank most of the shots, or just rep through them with the broken repers. Now that reppers have been fixed and prof damage us applied incubi pilots have to think more about their engagements than before.
@ medomai grey: we do get a damage bonus, assault dropship skill gives 2% dmg/lvl racial ads skill gives ROF/ammo |
Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
1669
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Posted - 2014.07.09 01:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:
I am glad it is just not me. I played against Numbnutz the other night and I just couldn't bring him down or even really hurt him, on the other hand he went 4-0 with 3 of those kills against me so I was able to limit his effectiveness. Pythons are too powerful and too expensive. The price should drop way down and they should be a little less durable, but the changes should be small and incremental in nerfing. Its not only the ship that makes them powerful, but also that you have to be a good pilot to risk a Python. I am impressed with the way these pilots can maneuver, use cover and so quickly identify a threat. That's why I couldn't kill Numbnutz, I'd get one shot but then he was on me, or he would loop around and wait for me to expose myself.
Thank you for the kind words. Assault dropships are touchy, the price is really grueling so I fit the most expensive mods and guns I can so I can get in quick, kill or suppress take a hit and leave fast. I still believe the best way to change pythons is to make it take longer in their engagements. If they have to be on an area longer then it gives av more of an opportunity to down them, or if the av is keeping them off their squad/teams back then the python won't be nearly as effective and will risk getting killed if too greedy.
I usually average 3 kills a game, but my gunners do much better usually scoring in the teens. If there is no av I average about 7. I have over a years experience piloting, so I have many hours fighting av and I have flown through some of the worst conditions dropship pilots have faced. This has hardened my crew and I to react swiftly to threats and communicate effectively. The reason I can respond to threats so quickly is because I have two other sets of eyes with me that can see where I can't.
Were you forge gunning? Sorry bad memory, I smoke a lot of weed  also no b in my name, unless your talking about another numnutz  |
Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
1669
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Posted - 2014.07.09 02:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Jack Galen wrote:
All that I'd ask for is *slightly* less swarm damage (just as MLT swarms PWN dropships now)
You can eat my pro5 clip then get away as I reload. That's plenty of warning. You can also OHK me with your missile launcher. I'm gonna go with ... no.
Not saying I agree but dropships can't eat a clip of prof5 proto swarms and happily fly away. |
Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
1672
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Posted - 2014.07.09 14:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Jack Galen wrote:
All that I'd ask for is *slightly* less swarm damage (just as MLT swarms PWN dropships now)
You can eat my pro5 clip then get away as I reload. That's plenty of warning. You can also OHK me with your missile launcher. I'm gonna go with ... no. Not saying I agree but dropships can't eat a clip of prof5 proto swarms and happily fly away. I said "get away". I never said "happily". And Pythons do it to me all the time (pro swarms, pro5, +2 cmp dmg). Easy cheesy to replicate. Though I'm a Scout; I haven't tried it as a Commando. (Do note that I'm not complaining; I think an ADS should be able to get away while I reload. I'm objecting to the earlier 'nerf swarms' request on the grounds that you guys already have a good chance to get away from a single swarmer).
I realize that, I was making the distinction that its not a happy situation taking 3 vollys of proto swarms. You end up limping away in a very vulnerable situation, its quite scary.
It confuses me that people run scouts for swarms, why do you do this? Is it for the damps? Because yeah my prototype missiles will one shot you. Minmandos can solo a python with prof 5 swarms and a DMG mod or two in one clip plus have a cr to defend themselves with and have more HP.
I do agree that there is no reason to Nerf swarms, tho I also don't see a reason to buff them.
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Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
1675
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Posted - 2014.07.09 15:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
ratamaq doc wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:
It confuses me that people run scouts for swarms, why do you do this? Is it for the damps? Because yeah my prototype missiles will one shot you. Minmandos can solo a python with prof 5 swarms and a DMG mod or two in one clip plus have a cr to defend themselves with and have more HP.
I do agree that there is no reason to Nerf swarms, tho I also don't see a reason to buff them.
I touched on this a few times in the video in the OP. While the pro minmando with pro 5 swarm may be the best infantry DS killing platform, it's lack of a grenade slot and only 1 equipment slot make it kind of a 1 trick pony. For all around AV and survivability when vehicle hunting you need to be fast, aware, and carry a multitude of tools. As a scout with swarms, good sidearm, REs, AV grenades, and Hives, even without an LAV I can get around relatively unmolested due to a low profile. I can avoid or assassinate stray Reds that as a mando I would have no choice to engage, Remember as much as every DS in the air is a prime target for anyone with a swarm launcher, a merc using a swarm launcher is damn near EVERYONE'S primary target. You got a big ass smoke trail giving away your location Everytime you fire. I've skilled minmando to 4, and it will be my next proto suit, but my Gal Scout will still be my primary platform.
Ah yes I should have specified running scouts with swarms to down a dropship. I understand the perks of running a scout when dealting with ground vehicles. My bad.
It would make sense to me that if a dedicated aver wanted a dropship gone he would switch out to his minmando and get to a good position. |
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