Actually you can lose alot of money if your running a proto suit and you have boundless re's. So we sacrifice alot doing this.

This is false JLAV drivers simply put the re's on the vehicle then switch to a free/cheap suit to avoid a majority of expenses.

Well when CCP releases a Soma or Sica BPO I'd be happy to keep having JLAV's exist.

I do wish to point out that dealing with JLAVs when we had no dispersion was fine since a good tanker could pick off the remotes if they had the piece of mind....... now that the dispersion is atroscious...... half your shots will miss the LAV, 45% will miss your intended target on the LAV, and odds are even after a solid 3-4 seconds of firing your enemy will drive with impunity into the side of your vastly more expensive and SP invested vehicle......

when did I say vehicles spent most of their time in rough terrain? I said when they are.....

I am not going to deign to respond to you anymore.... you are a scrub and I'm tired of arguing with you... if it wasn't obvious already to your pea brain ratati doesn't care about the tank QQ and jlavs are here to stay...

I have made valid counters to all jlav QQ and my likes on this thread are proof of this... you and lorhak have run out of anything sensible to say and have strayed into the realm of ridiculousness and desperation....

tell me why jlavs break the game, until you can come up with a sensible reason... which you cant, cause they don't, I'm done entertaining your moronic perceptions of this dead game...

This is false JLAV drivers simply put the re's on the vehicle then switch to a free/cheap suit to avoid a majority of expenses.

I stay in my remote suit, incase I have to manually detonate... 10.5k isk in my dren suit.

Fail

Fail

hardly... I have great success with it, and I live this way

+1 for creating a perfect synopsis of this thread, and the pilots inside.

How much do your fittings cost?


I'll tell you what, next time I see you running infantry I'll pull a BPO LAV with a nitrous and an HMG and I'll murder-taxi you.
Deal?

Or if you're flying I'll pull out a Gorgon and ram you. Sound fun?

its not ok to JLAV, but its ok to be a tank scrub with a heavy and HMG to jump out the tank and mow down AV players if their loosing?

JLAV is at least a realistic tactic.......instant poping in and out of tanks is not!

its not ok to JLAV, but its ok to be a tank scrub with a heavy and HMG to jump out the tank and mow down AV players if their loosing?

JLAV is at least a realistic tactic.......instant poping in and out of tanks is not!

hardly... I have great success with it, and I live this way

The only thing that I want in a game is balance of which that requires skill, and not a bunch of winers who can't deal with it themselves or a small group of people. I can not believe people who speak of encounters of a single tank that is impervious with more than two players targeting it. To me that simply implies just how incompetent they are. When tanks were 'OP' all you had to do was ignore them or get two AV guys to get it to screw off... yet nearly every AV player I saw thought it was a great idea to stand in front of the damn tank... and it's the same thing with an ADS when some idiot thinks that standing out in the open to get a clear shot is absolutely brilliant, and then complains when they die to missiles. The other thing I don't understand is why AV players think that proto tier weapons and equipment are needed to take down one vehicle. I find adv gear more than sufficient, and it only costs around 32,000 isk, compared to a 250,000 isk fitting.

Driving a LAV with remotes strapped to the front and ramming into a tank (a rather large target) requires no skill whatsoever, if you're a decent player that is...

Also, kamikazi dropships ramming into other dropships requires no skill, nor investment, which is the exact opposite of what a balanced and invested game suggests. The current damage that dropships suffer from colliding into structures/vehicles is ridiculous, and should toned down to the point where it's simply not viable, but still inflicts damage on a scale that makes the process utterly worthless.

If I wanted everything in this game to be cheap, then I'd have proxies detonate not only by vehicles, but infantry as well, and be free of all concerns of an actual fight.

It just surprises me how many people simply don't want a fight, or a challenge at that, in this game, or any game for that matter. The fact is that when people are given a simple and exploitable tactic to use, they will abuse it to no end, and not give a damn about the consequence that arises from it.

JLAVs were introduced in 1.7 as an apparently unintended byproduct of the change to REs. At the time the vehicle armour hardeners all but prevented dangerous damage being dealt to HAVs; this left the JLAV, usually stacked with prototype level equipment (because otherwise there just wasn't enough damage for success), as the only real viable means for AVing outside a tank.
For that reason I, and many other members of the HAV community, accepted them as necessary for some form of balance.
Time passed and hardeners were nerfed. Forge guns were now somewhat viable, but the power of the rep-tanked Madrugar meant that JLAVs were still the most effective tactic for dealing with those tanks, and so we bit our tongues.
Now the armour repairers have been nerfed; as well as Large Blasters being less effective for attacking infantry, infantry AV is, as a general rule, in a very good place at the moment.

Consequently, I think the time has come to formally request that they be removed.
The JLAV is a low-ISK high-reward tactic; indeed, for much of the community it entails zero risk. It is difficult to counter short of hiding in the redline at the peak of a hill, owing to the speed and manoeuvrability of the LAV, and should it strike you there is no possible way to survive, short of a max-tank hardened Gunnlogi (the fittings being 2x Complex Heavy Extenders and 1x Hardener, and 1x Complex Heavy Extender and 2x Hardeners).

It is akin to the much-reviled 'bumper dropship' in its near-zero investment reward, and is actually much higher reward owing to the enormous number of vehicle damage points it brings.

It is also alike to the old 'murder taxi' of early Uprising, particularly considering the near-free reward those had, and to the current 'LAV Heavy', which is similarly low-investment, low-skill high reward.

I hope you'll make the right decision.

but you're not being one shot... it takes at least 6 remotes to blow up a tank.... that's 6 shots.

EDIT: oh and 1 remote kills all but proto amar heavies so....

Proto Amarr Heavies are 3-4 shot at the least depending on they're configuration. Never one shotted.

I never said jlav is my style of av... I use nades, swarms (proto) and forge too (at 3 atm)

the point is to give another option, both effective and fun... and seriously... whats the point???? then I could say the same of rifles, why have more than one type... that's just a ridiculous thing to ask....

and it does take skill... its all about dodging fire sneaking into position maneuvering well and hitting the tank the right way and compensating afterward for a second try if it doesn't pan out... and yes HAV is sp intensive... but that doesn't mean it takes a lot of player effort... whether tanking does or doesn't take skil isn't even the point...

the point is to respect the way other people play even if it is different than yours, so long as they aren't using exploits or other cheats....

in this whole thread you still haven't told me how jlavs break the game.... because you cant.... because they don't.

put some small rail turrets on that tank and get a buddy to shoot for you, problem solved... also it literally takes one shot from the big turret to connect to make a jlav go poof...

JLAVs aren't ideal for every situation, because the terrain may be ridiculously bumpy, and you may be facing a tanker who's actually competent and destroys the JLAV every time.

The point of Forge Guns and Swarm Launchers, would be long range AV Weaponry.


Swarm Launchers require that you have situational awareness, as you -typically- cannot see around you during engagements because your too focused on the vehicle.

They also require that you make every shot count (resource management) due to the awful ammunition reserves, and they require patience in the sense that firing at the wrong time guarantees that your target escapes (the only other AV weapon actively requiring this skill is the Plasma Cannon).

HAV Piloting is not as skill intensive as Forging. The FGer puts themselves at risk to far more items, and has a TTK far lower than that of an HAV. When you also consider the fact that an HAV can easily escape danger in most situations, they're quite literally the easiest item to use in DUST 514.

Since JLAV needs to go i think we should introduce seat switch delay. Say 4 seconds to prevent you from using your same coward like tactics. How about that. Hello Pot, meet Kettle...

put some small rail turrets on that tank and get a buddy to shoot for you, problem solved... also it literally takes one shot from the big turret to connect to make a jlav go poof...

you have never jlaved or kamikaze derpshipped...so you don't know what you're talking about....

and personally I do want a fight... I want a bloody, dirty fight...

your the type of carebear who wants everything clean and fair.... pfffft!

you are playing the wrong game....

It is not.

It is about nothing more than sticking REs somewhere they won't get shot (I mean really, this should be obvious), driving somewhere you can see the tank, hitting nitrous and exploding.

I tried it about ten-fifteen times, and I was exploded by infantry twice. My ram failed once.

It is really not hard to JLAV, and you suggesting they are is ridiculous.


And I have at no point suggested JLAVs are 'game-breaking'. Don't you be putting words in my mouth.
At every point I have stated they are a BS, no-skill tactic and they should be removed.







People defended SLs from outside render distance too.



EDIT: so would you be okay with me having a BPO suit that suicide/insta kills on contact, is faster than a scout and tanky enough to survive more than two seconds' DPS?

I'll just go running into heavies all day erry day for luls. 1KDR and infinite ISK destroyed/zero lost seems pretty legit, right?

Why is it that you arrogantly assume that I myself have not partaken in this stupid act of suicide? Also, there is a difference between 'clean and fair' and following the rules of which this game was based on... investment... not exploitation, but CCP always leave so many holes in their work that questions their intelligence...

See, I JLAVed a little, I AV a lot, but clearly you don't ever tank.