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how to remove/fix jihadd jeeping.

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Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 359	Posted - 2014.06.20 16:36:00 - [1] - Quote remove the abillty for remote explosives to be fitted to friendly/allied controlled vehicles. however they should still be allowed to be attached to enemy vehicles via placement. sure they can steal a red lav and put the explosives on it but then they run the risk of them being destroyed by the opssosing team. so that team loses a vehicle asset that the owner had while the ''stealer'' dies in the process aditinally swaping out of the explosive suit causes the current placed explsovies to cease function and not be detonated when destroyed by the enemy. any other ideas or thoughts to AT least make jihadding have risk/isk investment and loss or gain. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
The-DON of-DOT-MAFIA The DOT MAFIA 26	Posted - 2014.06.20 16:45:00 - [2] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: remove the abillty for remote explosives to be fitted to friendly/allied controlled vehicles. however they should still be allowed to be attached to enemy vehicles via placement. sure they can steal a red lav and put the explosives on it but then they run the risk of them being destroyed by the opssosing team. so that team loses a vehicle asset that the owner had while the ''stealer'' dies in the process aditinally swaping out of the explosive suit causes the current placed explsovies to cease function and not be detonated when destroyed by the enemy. any other ideas or thoughts to AT least make jihadding have risk/isk investment and loss or gain. jihading is hilarious, and to be honest after 26,540 reclones, I'd be a **** faced DUI with an empty bourbon bottle riding shotgun!
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14453	Posted - 2014.06.20 17:09:00 - [3] - Quote Working as intended. Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky.
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 678	Posted - 2014.06.20 17:24:00 - [4] - Quote kamakazi cars are awesome they dont need fixing
Khulmach Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 21	Posted - 2014.06.20 18:08:00 - [5] - Quote No leave it as it is.I like it and only tankers should hate it. Now you see me,now you die(Nova knife slash)
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 681	Posted - 2014.06.20 18:13:00 - [6] - Quote Khulmach wrote: No leave it as it is.I like it and only tankers should hate it. lo with me its a love hate relationship with the kamakazi cars, i love seeing them fail but i hate getting killed by them
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 105	Posted - 2014.06.20 18:45:00 - [7] - Quote jihad jeeping is ledgit.. costs isk for the loadout and the jeep so its fair.. if you dotn want to be jihad jeeped, fit a buffer tank Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone? No Mic and no time for "Squeekers" Nerf scout cloak+shotgun
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3793	Posted - 2014.06.20 18:52:00 - [8] - Quote Why remove Jihadd Jeeps? I ran tanks for over a month (as in I did nothing but tanking in that time) and I only got taken out by Jihadd Jeeps 3 or 4 times. I probably killed 15 to 20 of them in that time, but only 3 or 4 of them managed to get me. The splash damage from one hit will set off the Remotes and detonate the LAV before it gets to you. Besides, getting taken out by a Jehadd Jeep always seemed to make me laugh. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 683	Posted - 2014.06.20 18:57:00 - [9] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: jihad jeeping is ledgit.. costs isk for the loadout and the jeep so its fair.. if you dotn want to be jihad jeeped, fit a buffer tank no, some people have bpocars and can do it for free not even buying the explosives or suit aswell
Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1569	Posted - 2014.06.20 19:24:00 - [10] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: jihad jeeping is ledgit.. costs isk for the loadout and the jeep so its fair.. if you dotn want to be jihad jeeped, fit a buffer tank no, some people have bpocars and can do it for free not even buying the explosives or suit aswell and that you think you can make any tank survive a fully loaded jihad speaks to your insanity

Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 103	Posted - 2014.06.20 19:28:00 - [11] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: remove the abillty for remote explosives to be fitted to friendly/allied controlled vehicles. however they should still be allowed to be attached to enemy vehicles via placement. sure they can steal a red lav and put the explosives on it but then they run the risk of them being destroyed by the opssosing team. so that team loses a vehicle asset that the owner had while the ''stealer'' dies in the process aditinally swaping out of the explosive suit causes the current placed explsovies to cease function and not be detonated when destroyed by the enemy. any other ideas or thoughts to AT least make jihadding have risk/isk investment and loss or gain. jihad jeeps aren't a problem.... they are a creative style of play... there's nothing OP about them, and 99% of the time the driver dies as well... instead of trying to tell us how to fix what you see as a problem, tell us first why you think its a problem. I would be happy to engage you in this argument if you actually have one that amounts to more than you simply don't like the tactic.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 103	Posted - 2014.06.20 19:36:00 - [12] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: jihad jeeping is ledgit.. costs isk for the loadout and the jeep so its fair.. if you dotn want to be jihad jeeped, fit a buffer tank no, some people have bpocars and can do it for free not even buying the explosives or suit aswell lies... you have to buy the explosives... sure you could put them on and then switch out to a starter fit or bpo suit, but then you cant detonate them in instances where ramming doesn't blow you up... many times I have had to get out of my lav to manually detonate on a tank. as far as lav bpo's go... if everyone had them you may have the beginings of an argument, but most who play dust now don't have them... even still for, what? 30k isk? I can get a jeep and still blow up a 350k tank....bpo lav's are not that much of an advantage here... I can still make more isk than risk most of the time.... either way I'm still almost sure to die, costing my team a clone.
pa ck G.L.O.R.Y Dark Taboo 45	Posted - 2014.07.03 14:59:00 - [13] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Why remove Jihadd Jeeps? I ran tanks for over a month (as in I did nothing but tanking in that time) and I only got taken out by Jihadd Jeeps 3 or 4 times. I probably killed 15 to 20 of them in that time, but only 3 or 4 of them managed to get me. The splash damage from one hit will set off the Remotes and detonate the LAV before it gets to you. Besides, getting taken out by a Jehadd Jeep always seemed to make me laugh. See this guy gets it now stop crying Lone Wolf -Assault CK.0 Scout CK.0
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2420	Posted - 2014.07.03 15:58:00 - [14] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: jihad jeeping is ledgit.. costs isk for the loadout and the jeep so its fair.. if you dotn want to be jihad jeeped, fit a buffer tank costs 0 isk, unfair as the jeep has greater speed and maneuverability no risk and is much easier to do then blowing up a jihad jeep. Buffer tanking does not do anything the 20,000 damage will still kill you. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2420	Posted - 2014.07.03 16:02:00 - [15] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: jihad jeeping is ledgit.. costs isk for the loadout and the jeep so its fair.. if you dotn want to be jihad jeeped, fit a buffer tank no, some people have bpocars and can do it for free not even buying the explosives or suit aswell lies... you have to buy the explosives... sure you could put them on and then switch out to a starter fit or bpo suit, but then you cant detonate them in instances where ramming doesn't blow you up... many times I have had to get out of my lav to manually detonate on a tank. as far as lav bpo's go... if everyone had them you may have the beginings of an argument, but most who play dust now don't have them... even still for, what? 30k isk? I can get a jeep and still blow up a 350k tank....bpo lav's are not that much of an advantage here... I can still make more isk than risk most of the time.... either way I'm still almost sure to die, costing my team a clone. So you admit low risk high reward which goes completwely against the dust way of high risk high reward. How often do games come down to clones? Once every 5... 6 maybe 7 matches. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3939	Posted - 2014.07.03 16:33:00 - [16] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Working as intended. Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. It's a free kill essentially. What you're saying is very much like me saying 'fit an afterburner. Only the worst of the worst get knocked out of the sky by Gorgons/RDVs with those fitted'. Which is clearly not the case. It is incredibly easy to be killed by a Jihad Jeep. Frequently it's because multiple persons use them, or because I'm dealing with an AV threat, or because I'm fighting a tank, or whatever. I have zero issues with being killed. I have a serious problem with being killed by a zero-skill zero-ISK 'tactic' such as this, in a similar vein to my being practically insta-killed by tower swarms outside render range back in 1.6 and prior. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3939	Posted - 2014.07.03 16:36:00 - [17] - Quote pa ck wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Why remove Jihadd Jeeps? I ran tanks for over a month (as in I did nothing but tanking in that time) and I only got taken out by Jihadd Jeeps 3 or 4 times. I probably killed 15 to 20 of them in that time, but only 3 or 4 of them managed to get me. The splash damage from one hit will set off the Remotes and detonate the LAV before it gets to you. Besides, getting taken out by a Jehadd Jeep always seemed to make me laugh. See this guy gets it now stop crying See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions. He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsh*t that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic. The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 336	Posted - 2014.07.03 16:40:00 - [18] - Quote So tankers are now Q_Qing about the only legit AV....good lord. Sadly it's the best anti-tank because it stops all the I win button tankers like Duna from going 50-0 every match....just because it kills you, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3941	Posted - 2014.07.03 17:27:00 - [19] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: So tankers are now Q_Qing about the only legit AV....good lord. Sadly it's the best anti-tank because it stops all the I win button tankers like Duna from going 50-0 every match....just because it kills you, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. The only legit AV? Are you joking? Do you own a swarm or a forge? If not, GTFO. If so, I hate to say it but go right on and git gud. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Atiim Fooly Cooly. 10155	Posted - 2014.07.03 17:44:00 - [20] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: jihad jeeping is ledgit.. costs isk for the loadout and the jeep so its fair.. if you dotn want to be jihad jeeped, fit a buffer tank costs 0 isk, unfair as the jeep has greater speed and maneuverability no risk and is much easier to do then blowing up a jihad jeep. Buffer tanking does not do anything the 20,000 damage will still kill you. ISK cost is irrelevant. As for Jihad Jeep being "0 risk", the driver puts themselves at rather large amounts of risk, because at any point in time the LAV can be instantly killed, due to the remotes being exposed. Not to mention that the terrain usually causes the LAV to hit a bump or other obstacle, causing the LAV to miss the target. Any shot (and I quite literally mean any) to the REs will cause the LAV to instantly explode. Couple that with the fact that you can hear the LAV coming from a mile away, and there's no excuse as to why you should be dying to a Jihad Jeep. Either stop AFKing inside your HAV, or Get Good. Long Live The Anime Empire -HAND

Atiim Fooly Cooly. 10155	Posted - 2014.07.03 18:04:00 - [21] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions. He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsht that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic. The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep. Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting). 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:* Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping. So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? Long Live The Anime Empire -HAND
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2420	Posted - 2014.07.03 18:08:00 - [22] - Quote Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: jihad jeeping is ledgit.. costs isk for the loadout and the jeep so its fair.. if you dotn want to be jihad jeeped, fit a buffer tank costs 0 isk, unfair as the jeep has greater speed and maneuverability no risk and is much easier to do then blowing up a jihad jeep. Buffer tanking does not do anything the 20,000 damage will still kill you. ISK cost is irrelevant. As for Jihad Jeep being "0 risk", the driver puts themselves at rather large amounts of risk, because at any point in time the LAV can be instantly killed, due to the remotes being exposed. Not to mention that the terrain usually causes the LAV to hit a bump or other obstacle, causing the LAV to miss the target. Any shot (and I quite literally mean any) to the REs will cause the LAV to instantly explode. Couple that with the fact that you can hear the LAV coming from a mile away, and there's no excuse as to why you should be dying to a Jihad Jeep. Either stop AFKing inside your HAV, or Get Good. Theirs an economy so yes it is relevant 0 risk to assets oh you lose a clone or K/D boo hoo. False, Sure I can hear an LAV coming but when multiple LAVs are in different angles and throwing off my gauge of direction how my supposed to know what's jihad and what's not. So it's my fault I die brawling a tank because I get hit by a jihad my thought process should be "let's focus on the LAV that might not even be a threat as opposed to the definite threat being the tank or AV" it's all on my for reloading at just the wrong time. Stop being such scrub that you can't beat a tank using AV when the tank can barely fight back and get good actually AFKing in my tank might be beneficial I've actually saved some tanks by simply not moving. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2420	Posted - 2014.07.03 18:23:00 - [23] - Quote Atiim wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions. He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsht that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic. The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep. Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting). 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:* Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping. So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? 2 words Faction Warfare BPO LAV's they exist and then again don't suck Come on really using that bullsh!t in a proto suit I can take on at least 3 starter fits at once and it's usually dumb luck or me being stupid that I die to one. In a tank theirs no way your taking 3 on at once and a tank + your suit costs 5 times as much as one proto suit in general and killing a tank with a jihad is stupid easy killing a proto suit with an infantry suit is not. Even the best tankers die to this tactic. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
Will Driver Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 100	Posted - 2014.07.03 18:46:00 - [24] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: jihad jeeping is ledgit.. costs isk for the loadout and the jeep so its fair.. if you dotn want to be jihad jeeped, fit a buffer tank no, some people have bpocars and can do it for free not even buying the explosives or suit aswell What you say is a problem with legacy BPOs in the game, not with the tactic. We should get rid of BPOs all together, or make them available to all to purchase again. Having some n the game but not have them accessible to all is a broken mechanic. GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥ GÇò Albert Einstein
Atiim Fooly Cooly. 10155	Posted - 2014.07.03 20:28:00 - [25] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Theirs an economy so yes it is relevant 0 risk to assets oh you lose a clone or K/D boo hoo. JLAVs do cause a risk (and guaranteed loss) to my assets. Benjamin Ciscko wrote: False, Sure I can hear an LAV coming but when multiple LAVs are in different angles and throwing off my gauge of direction how my supposed to know what's jihad and what's not. So basically you just admitted that you can hear the LAV coming. GG Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So it's my fault I die brawling a tank because I get hit by a jihad my thought process should be "let's focus on the LAV that might not even be a threat as opposed to the definite threat being the tank or AV" it's all on my for reloading at just the wrong time. No, but there's nothing wrong with this. When was the last time someone complained about dieing to a tank while brawling an Infantry player? If you can't handle the fact that you have to focus on multiple enemies from different directions, then you have no business playing a video game. Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Stop being such scrub that you can't beat a tank using AV when the tank can barely fight back and get good I don't even use JLAVs anymore, but keep making baseless assumptions. Though I do find the scrub comment funny considering how you couldn't even survive my Swarms in a Gunnlogi when they still had the 80% "god mode" hardeners" Long Live The Anime Empire -HAND
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2424	Posted - 2014.07.03 20:44:00 - [26] - Quote Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Theirs an economy so yes it is relevant 0 risk to assets oh you lose a clone or K/D boo hoo. JLAVs do cause a risk (and guaranteed loss) to my assets. Benjamin Ciscko wrote: False, Sure I can hear an LAV coming but when multiple LAVs are in different angles and throwing off my gauge of direction how my supposed to know what's jihad and what's not. So basically you just admitted that you can hear the LAV coming. GG I bet half the shot gunners you hear kill you anyway Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So it's my fault I die brawling a tank because I get hit by a jihad my thought process should be "let's focus on the LAV that might not even be a threat as opposed to the definite threat being the tank or AV" it's all on my for reloading at just the wrong time. No, but there's nothing wrong with this. When was the last time someone complained about dieing to a tank while brawling an Infantry player? Quite a lot it might not have been out right stated but I've sure heard it and it's definitely happened a ton If you can't handle the fact that you have to focus on multiple enemies from different directions, then you have no business playing a video game. lol you were the one that phrased it in manner saying that I should never die to one Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Stop being such scrub that you can't beat a tank using AV when the tank can barely fight back and get good I don't even use JLAVs anymore, but keep making baseless assumptions. And you assume Jihad LAVs have killed me more than 5 times ever Though I do find the scrub comment funny considering how you couldn't even survive my Swarms in a Gunnlogi when they still had the 80% "god mode" hardeners" When were hardeners ever 80% not that you actually killed my shield tank. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
Atiim Fooly Cooly. 10155	Posted - 2014.07.03 20:54:00 - [27] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: 2 words Faction Warfare BPO LAV's they exist and then again don't suck The problem with your "BPO LAVs and LP REs" assertion is that it implies that not everyone can use and/or obtain those items, which means that you'd be conforming to "selective balance" (where an item is balanced around the actions/status/intent of some players, but not all; leading to a situation where the item is broken for others). That's bad for gameplay. Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Come on really using that bullsh!t in a proto suit I can take on at least 3 starter fits at once and it's usually dumb luck or me being stupid that I die to one. If the player in a Starter Fit has a good aim, then they can "solo" you. Personally, I've downed tons of PRO suits with my 'Medic' and a MLT Rail Rifle. Benjamin Ciscko wrote: In a tank theirs no way your taking 3 on at once and a tank + your suit costs 5 times as much as one proto suit in general and killing a tank with a jihad is stupid easy killing a proto suit with an infantry suit is not. The only way an HAV costs 5x as much as a PRO suit is if you fit it that way, which is idiotic considering how most modules are techicided and yield the same results/benefits across all tiers. Operating an HAV is also stupid easy, so your point is moot. Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Even the best tankers die to this tactic. I'm not surprised, considering how most tankers aren't really good at DUST 514 anyways. Long Live The Anime Empire -HAND
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1887	Posted - 2014.07.03 21:21:00 - [28] - Quote This is silly. A prof 5 proto assault forge on a fully bpo'd out skinweave heavy can 3 shot a fully fitted, fully specced, massively expensive ADS out of the sky for under 80k..... and you guys are pissy that a 30k car loaded up with RE's by a guy who specced into them for that purpose and who can navigate close enough to you to RAM you without you noticing is blowing up your tank? Um... situational awareness much? Teamwork? Isn't that the drivel AV players have been hearing for the last 6-8 months? "Use Teamwork!" Well, have your squad let you know when there's a LAV in your vicinity. You're not with your squad? Well, you're not using teamwork. Sad day. Player ingenuity. It's a beautiful thing. Rail tankers could (and on some maps, do) camp the redline all match. They thought it up as an effective tactic. The only issue I have with it is that there's no effective way to counter it since OB's can't really drop decent tanks anymore. jLAV's ARE easy to counter. You can have teammates set up proxy's which will detonate the RE's on the LAV when they go off. You can have a teammate with a swarm on standby to hit the LAV's and either scare them off, kill them or tag their RE's with missiles, detonating them (along with the driver). Or you can have teammates spot LAV's for you. Or you can have situational awareness since you can hear LAV's from a long ways off. OR you can combine some of these ideas and do pretty well avoiding/killing 99% of them. Happy tanking, jLAV's are the least of your worries. ;) PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 284	Posted - 2014.07.03 22:09:00 - [29] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: This is silly. A prof 5 proto assault forge on a fully bpo'd out skinweave heavy can 3 shot a fully fitted, fully specced, massively expensive ADS out of the sky for under 80k..... and you guys are pissy that a 30k car loaded up with RE's by a guy who specced into them for that purpose and who can navigate close enough to you to RAM you without you noticing is blowing up your tank? Um... situational awareness much? Teamwork? Isn't that the drivel AV players have been hearing for the last 6-8 months? "Use Teamwork!" Well, have your squad let you know when there's a LAV in your vicinity. You're not with your squad? Well, you're not using teamwork. Sad day. Player ingenuity. It's a beautiful thing. Rail tankers could (and on some maps, do) camp the redline all match. They thought it up as an effective tactic. The only issue I have with it is that there's no effective way to counter it since OB's can't really drop decent tanks anymore. jLAV's ARE easy to counter. You can have teammates set up proxy's which will detonate the RE's on the LAV when they go off. You can have a teammate with a swarm on standby to hit the LAV's and either scare them off, kill them or tag their RE's with missiles, detonating them (along with the driver). Or you can have teammates spot LAV's for you. Or you can have situational awareness since you can hear LAV's from a long ways off. OR you can combine some of these ideas and do pretty well avoiding/killing 99% of them. Happy tanking, jLAV's are the least of your worries. ;) I have banned accounts waiting to like this post. bravo! bravo!
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2426	Posted - 2014.07.03 22:14:00 - [30] - Quote Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Even the best tankers die to this tactic. I'm not surprised, considering how most tankers aren't really good at DUST 514 anyways. The only tanker who really isn't that great is Spkr and you should take a look at your K/D some time. This person was probably the best blaster tanker in uprising and he got jihad jeeped http://youtu.be/ChfNcUsgGfo?t=2m21s...... Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given

Jonny D Buelle Mors Effera 180	Posted - 2014.07.03 22:14:00 - [31] - Quote I don't think JLAVs should be removed at all. This is a sandbox (with very little sand) game thats involves risk and reward. I have myself done this type of strategy myself for shts and giggles and I found it to be fun. Yes it CAN be inexpensive to grab a milita suit, throw on some REs get a militia LAV and ram a proto fit tank. But as I stated before, this is a risk and reward game. You risked your 500k+ tank and you lost it. Yes I am aware that it is the way you lost it that is causing so much QQ over this. But you would be QQing just as hard if I was to use my forge gun to blow you up. "No! Because that is legit AV!" Well so is using REs! And if people want to attach them to an LAV and ram you let them or let them try. This argument just reminds me too much of a few new players in EVE QQing because their miners got suicide ganked in High-Sec. This *** happens in sandbox games. Much like how someone will come along and tear down your house in Minecraft because they wanted too. Yeah it pissed people off, but it is allowed. TL;DR Harden up bro and let us keep a little more sand in the sandbox. Legionhares Unite!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3506	Posted - 2014.07.04 06:52:00 - [32] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Working as intended. Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. Can you please clarify this rotation bug. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1106	Posted - 2014.07.04 07:12:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Working as intended. Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. Can you please clarify this rotation bug. There's uncertainty whether the (large) turret specialization skill works or not. I've been told that it has absolutely zero effect. Personally I don't know. Today I upped one of my small turret skills and it felt that the rotation got faster. But that's so hard to measure. :-S
MINA Longstrike 964	Posted - 2014.07.04 09:24:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Working as intended. Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. Can you please clarify this rotation bug. The turret rotation skills literally do not apply to turrets. While we're on the topic of turrets as well, are you aware that everyone inside an assault dropship, applies whatever skills they have in said assault dropship to all of the turrets? This means that with 3 people who have caldari assault dropships 5 on xt missile turrets, you can spray missiles at a rate of 4 per second. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 977	Posted - 2014.07.04 10:13:00 - [35] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: The turret rotation skills literally do not apply to turrets. While we're on the topic of turrets as well, are you aware that everyone inside an assault dropship, applies whatever skills they have in said assault dropship to all of the turrets? This means that with 3 people who have caldari assault dropships 5 on xt missile turrets, you can spray missiles at a rate of 4 per second. That's incorrect. It's actually only the pilot and the person using each individual turret. For example. Pilot with python 5. 50% RoF increase. Gunner 1 with python 3. 80% RoF increase. Gunner 2 with python 0. 50% RoF increase. The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
AmlSeb Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 100	Posted - 2014.07.04 11:08:00 - [36] - Quote Get a good gunner to watch out for you First day veteran EVE Design Law §1: Either Range or DPS AmlSeb on Twitter
AmlSeb Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 100	Posted - 2014.07.04 11:11:00 - [37] - Quote Seriously, If collision damage is fixed no LAV explodes and thus no REs explode = fixed First day veteran EVE Design Law §1: Either Range or DPS AmlSeb on Twitter
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 282	Posted - 2014.07.04 11:14:00 - [38] - Quote How about this bug you drive lac turret always faces forward.You switch to the turret now its facing another direction
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3978	Posted - 2014.07.04 12:07:00 - [39] - Quote Atiim wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions. He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsht that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic. The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep. Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting). 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:* Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping. So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? Missed this last time through the thread. Don't see why you'd have to fit a fuel injector, and it seems to me that you're trying to fit a complex mod to the LAV for some reason? Protofits tells me that I can make a Baloch fitting for 21k. A far cry from your 53k figure. Were a veteran player to do it (as a good half the JLAVs are) it'd cost about 2700 ISK. You once showed off an Assault mk.0 SL fitting, and I've done the same for a Sentinel ak.0 AFG fitting. For a seventh of the cost of my suit, and a tenth of yours, I can buy from the MLT store an 'AV' method with a higher success rate (i.e. Most of the time. I frequently see Sicas and Somas destroyed by these fitting, as well as more expensive fittings.) You cannot seriously tell me this is appropriate 'risk+reward'? Feel free, though. I'd be happy to copy-paste your words into every MLT HAV balance thread you ever post in ever. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3978	Posted - 2014.07.04 12:09:00 - [40] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: How about this bug you drive lav turret always faces forward.You switch to the turret now its facing another direction Not a bug. The turret is always facing the same cardinal direction. If your turret is facing the northern edge of the map, if you switch seats it'll appear as if it's in line with your LAV, but then if you switch back it returns to the angle you had it at before. It's a nice feature and it helps with pre-aiming the slowly-rotating turrets. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!

TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3769	Posted - 2014.07.04 13:49:00 - [41] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: How about this bug you drive lav turret always faces forward.You switch to the turret now its facing another direction That is so annoying. Just like every other Englishmen, I bath in tea, have no teeth and live in a castle.
lithkul devant Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 269	Posted - 2014.07.04 14:18:00 - [42] - Quote Jihad Jeeps are a legitmate tactic, this sort of thing has been done since ancient times, and yes they often use the least valuable ship or vehicle they can in order to do this. This would be similar to setting one of your own ships on fire in a naval encounter and having it ram into several other ships or even explode right next to the other ships. This was meant to cause fear and major damage to the enemy, this tactic also was not used typically unless it was obvious that the enemy was going to win or was to powerful to fight conventenially. For in real life, we have mines specifically designed to tank out tanks, these cost roughly 100-200 dollars per mine, now I can assure you a tank costs plenty more then that even a very bad tank, but the point of the matter is in warfare you find ways to supplement your weaknesses. Russia does this all the time against its enemies, Russia used the weather to destroy the armies of Naploean and ****** and that was just them using the environment, no man power involved at all.
lithkul devant Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 269	Posted - 2014.07.04 14:27:00 - [43] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions. He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsht that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic. The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep. Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting). 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:* Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping. So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? 2 words Faction Warfare BPO LAV's they exist and then again don't suck Come on really using that bullsh!t in a proto suit I can take on at least 3 starter fits at once and it's usually dumb luck or me being stupid that I die to one. In a tank theirs no way your taking 3 on at once and a tank + your suit costs 5 times as much as one proto suit in general and killing a tank with a jihad is stupid easy killing a proto suit with an infantry suit is not. Even the best tankers die to this tactic. Really? Let me pick 2 people of my choice to be in starter fits and see if you can kill all 3 of us, I guarentee you, you will be slaughtered each and every time. Let me just get in a scout suit sneak up on you while I am cloaked and blow your head off with a shotgun, in fact the other day I shotgunned a proto scout in the face while he was cloaked, instant death for him, followed by a flux to make sure that isk was gone for good. I could also kill you using an RE real fast, how about I jump down from above you with a dren HMG pointed at your chest you won't survive for 3 seconds. My point being is that infantry is more about skill and luck then it is about equipment, yes equipment can play a huge role, but it is not the sole determnant within infantry combat. Also, so you know I hunt people using proto suits using starter or under 5k suits all the time, and my K/D is in the positive.
trollface dot jpg The Bacon Corporation 173	Posted - 2014.07.04 15:25:00 - [44] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: [quote=Benjamin Ciscko][quote=Atiim][quote=Lorhak Gannarsein]Also, so you know I hunt people using proto suits using starter or under 5k suits all the time, and my K/D is in the positive. You also tank. Point negated. RIP MAG, you will be missed. MAG Vet ~ Raven
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 188	Posted - 2014.07.04 17:12:00 - [45] - Quote Ratattati: Large turret speed rotation bug: Skill: turret operation - large turret operation - (blaster missile railgun) operation - (blaster missile railgun) proficiency proficiency description: Advanced sill at operating large (any) turrets. +10% to large (any) rotation speed per level in reality you get 0% bonus to rotation speed per level making an sp sink and makes proto turrets rotate at the same speed as militia
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 189	Posted - 2014.07.04 17:45:00 - [46] - Quote ps. The militia railguns' overheat mechanic is broken as it gets off 2 more shots without overheat than all the other railguns.
danie braz Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 52	Posted - 2014.07.04 18:39:00 - [47] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Atiim wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions. He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsht that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic. The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep. Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting). 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:* Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping. So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? Missed this last time through the thread. Don't see why you'd have to fit a fuel injector, and it seems to me that you're trying to fit a complex mod to the LAV for some reason? Protofits tells me that I can make a Baloch fitting for 21k. A far cry from your 53k figure. Were a veteran player to do it (as a good half the JLAVs are) it'd cost about 2700 ISK. You once showed off an Assault mk.0 SL fitting, and I've done the same for a Sentinel ak.0 AFG fitting. For a seventh of the cost of my suit, and a tenth of yours, I can buy from the MLT store an 'AV' method with a higher success rate (i.e. Most of the time. I frequently see Sicas and Somas destroyed by these fitting, as well as more expensive fittings.) You cannot seriously tell me this is appropriate 'risk+reward'? Feel free, though. I'd be happy to copy-paste your words into every MLT HAV balance thread you ever post in ever. Incorrect. Dropsuit bpo + exile ar bpo + lav bpo + RE = cost of REs only Fluoride uranium carbon potassium bismuth technetium helium sulfur germanium thulium Molybdenum neon yttrium
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 340	Posted - 2014.07.04 18:54:00 - [48] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: So tankers are now Q_Qing about the only legit AV....good lord. Sadly it's the best anti-tank because it stops all the I win button tankers like Duna from going 50-0 every match....just because it kills you, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. The only legit AV? Are you joking? Do you own a swarm or a forge? If not, GTFO. If so, I hate to say it but go right on and git gud. Actually, I have prof. 2 in forges and most tankers get hit once and run off....then come back to kill you and if they fail they do it over again. And the "giting Gud" needs to be said to tankers. "Oh no! My K/D is in danger! Time to run."tankers are the true scrubs. How is playing a role with the most health, DPS, and speed fair in anyway?and why does it take 2+ people to take out a tank? If its only 1 AVer, then tanks high tail it to the red line....I'm the scrub, indeed........ Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 295	Posted - 2014.07.04 19:07:00 - [49] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Working as intended. Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. Can you please clarify this rotation bug. lol it never ceases to amaze me how random ccp's interest is in bugs... had the sprint bug since forever, but no fix, but omg! turret rotation!.....meh....
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 40	Posted - 2014.07.04 19:43:00 - [50] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: So tankers are now Q_Qing about the only legit AV....good lord. Sadly it's the best anti-tank because it stops all the I win button tankers like Duna from going 50-0 every match....just because it kills you, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. The only legit AV? Are you joking? Do you own a swarm or a forge? If not, GTFO. If so, I hate to say it but go right on and git gud. Actually, I have prof. 2 in forges and most tankers get hit once and run off....then come back to kill you and if they fail they do it over again. And the "giting Gud" needs to be said to tankers. "Oh no! My K/D is in danger! Time to run."tankers are the true scrubs. How is playing a role with the most health, DPS, and speed fair in anyway?and why does it take 2+ people to take out a tank? If its only 1 AVer, then tanks high tail it to the red line....I'm the scrub, indeed........ This is true tankers are the true scrubs except for some tankers. They just run off and spam hardeners once they are hit and come back with full hp. you tankers just want to have the easieast possible time in a match. Deal with JLAV just like we did with tanks

Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 1999	Posted - 2014.07.04 21:13:00 - [51] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Working as intended. Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. It's a free kill essentially. What you're saying is very much like me saying 'fit an afterburner. Only the worst of the worst get knocked out of the sky by Gorgons/RDVs with those fitted'. Which is clearly not the case. It is incredibly easy to be killed by a Jihad Jeep. Frequently it's because multiple persons use them, or because I'm dealing with an AV threat, or because I'm fighting a tank, or whatever. I have zero issues with being killed. I have a serious problem with being killed by a zero-skill zero-ISK 'tactic' such as this, in a similar vein to my being practically insta-killed by tower swarms outside render range back in 1.6 and prior. Didn't they nerf damage on remotes? It should take a full set of F/45 remotes to kill one. Or, fit a Plate on thst Soma. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
jaksol exendent Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.07.05 05:33:00 - [52] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: remove the abillty for remote explosives to be fitted to friendly/allied controlled vehicles. however they should still be allowed to be attached to enemy vehicles via placement. sure they can steal a red lav and put the explosives on it but then they run the risk of them being destroyed by the opssosing team. so that team loses a vehicle asset that the owner had while the ''stealer'' dies in the process aditinally swaping out of the explosive suit causes the current placed explsovies to cease function and not be detonated when destroyed by the enemy. any other ideas or thoughts to AT least make jihadding have risk/isk investment and loss or gain. its a valade tactic and this is coming from tanker i just think is should cost more to do ps i havent been jihaded in weeks players seem to have goten tired of them
jaksol exendent Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.07.05 05:34:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Working as intended. Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. Can you please clarify this rotation bug. do you also know about the turning bug were you pull the turning joystick to the right and you turn to the left instead and vice versa?
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 4032	Posted - 2014.07.05 11:21:00 - [54] - Quote danie braz wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Atiim wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions. He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsht that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic. The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep. Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting). 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:* Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping. So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? Missed this last time through the thread. Don't see why you'd have to fit a fuel injector, and it seems to me that you're trying to fit a complex mod to the LAV for some reason? Protofits tells me that I can make a Baloch fitting for 21k. A far cry from your 53k figure. Were a veteran player to do it (as a good half the JLAVs are) it'd cost about 2700 ISK. You once showed off an Assault mk.0 SL fitting, and I've done the same for a Sentinel ak.0 AFG fitting. For a seventh of the cost of my suit, and a tenth of yours, I can buy from the MLT store an 'AV' method with a higher success rate (i.e. Most of the time. I frequently see Sicas and Somas destroyed by these fitting, as well as more expensive fittings.) You cannot seriously tell me this is appropriate 'risk+reward'? Feel free, though. I'd be happy to copy-paste your words into every MLT HAV balance thread you ever post in ever. Incorrect. Dropsuit bpo + exile ar bpo + lav bpo + RE = cost of REs only We're assuming this person has no BPOs. So presumably they fit a suit and switch at the supply depot - a Basic Light would do the trick. Basically the only thing they're paying for is the car, and a fuel inj. if they're so inclined. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 4032	Posted - 2014.07.05 11:23:00 - [55] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Working as intended. Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. It's a free kill essentially. What you're saying is very much like me saying 'fit an afterburner. Only the worst of the worst get knocked out of the sky by Gorgons/RDVs with those fitted'. Which is clearly not the case. It is incredibly easy to be killed by a Jihad Jeep. Frequently it's because multiple persons use them, or because I'm dealing with an AV threat, or because I'm fighting a tank, or whatever. I have zero issues with being killed. I have a serious problem with being killed by a zero-skill zero-ISK 'tactic' such as this, in a similar vein to my being practically insta-killed by tower swarms outside render range back in 1.6 and prior. Didn't they nerf damage on remotes? It should take a full set of F/45 remotes to kill one. Or, fit a Plate on thst Soma. It still takes a full set of F/45s (which weren't nerfed). I have no problem with them being placed - I've advocated increased damage when placed on the hull, in fact. I have no issues with REs as AV, strictly speaking. I have no issues with REs as AI, not anymore (though it still makes me mad when I see people using them as their primary weapon.) All my issues with REs stem directly from them being placed on LAVs. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 4032	Posted - 2014.07.05 11:24:00 - [56] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: So tankers are now Q_Qing about the only legit AV....good lord. Sadly it's the best anti-tank because it stops all the I win button tankers like Duna from going 50-0 every match....just because it kills you, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. The only legit AV? Are you joking? Do you own a swarm or a forge? If not, GTFO. If so, I hate to say it but go right on and git gud. Actually, I have prof. 2 in forges and most tankers get hit once and run off....then come back to kill you and if they fail they do it over again. And the "giting Gud" needs to be said to tankers. "Oh no! My K/D is in danger! Time to run."tankers are the true scrubs. How is playing a role with the most health, DPS, and speed fair in anyway?and why does it take 2+ people to take out a tank? If its only 1 AVer, then tanks high tail it to the red line....I'm the scrub, indeed........ Congrats, you've invested SP! Now do the other half. Not hard to kill a tank with a forge. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Harpyja Legio DXIV 1998	Posted - 2014.07.05 13:08:00 - [57] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: Jihad Jeeps are a legitmate tactic, this sort of thing has been done since ancient times, and yes they often use the least valuable ship or vehicle they can in order to do this. This would be similar to setting one of your own ships on fire in a naval encounter and having it ram into several other ships or even explode right next to the other ships. This was meant to cause fear and major damage to the enemy, this tactic also was not used typically unless it was obvious that the enemy was going to win or was to powerful to fight conventenially. For in real life, we have mines specifically designed to tank out tanks, these cost roughly 100-200 dollars per mine, now I can assure you a tank costs plenty more then that even a very bad tank, but the point of the matter is in warfare you find ways to supplement your weaknesses. Russia does this all the time against its enemies, Russia used the weather to destroy the armies of Naploean and ****** and that was just them using the environment, no man power involved at all. Murder taxis were also a "legitimate tactic." But infantry cried and cried that it was killing them unfairly so they had CCP "fix" vehicle-infantry collision damage, AKA a nerf. Either give me back my old Charybdis or remove JLAVs. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 308	Posted - 2014.07.05 13:26:00 - [58] - Quote Harpyja wrote: lithkul devant wrote: Jihad Jeeps are a legitmate tactic, this sort of thing has been done since ancient times, and yes they often use the least valuable ship or vehicle they can in order to do this. This would be similar to setting one of your own ships on fire in a naval encounter and having it ram into several other ships or even explode right next to the other ships. This was meant to cause fear and major damage to the enemy, this tactic also was not used typically unless it was obvious that the enemy was going to win or was to powerful to fight conventenially. For in real life, we have mines specifically designed to tank out tanks, these cost roughly 100-200 dollars per mine, now I can assure you a tank costs plenty more then that even a very bad tank, but the point of the matter is in warfare you find ways to supplement your weaknesses. Russia does this all the time against its enemies, Russia used the weather to destroy the armies of Naploean and ****** and that was just them using the environment, no man power involved at all. Murder taxis were also a "legitimate tactic." But infantry cried and cried that it was killing them unfairly so they had CCP "fix" vehicle-infantry collision damage, AKA a nerf. Either give me back my old Charybdis or remove JLAVs. the real problem with murder taxis was everyone had a free lav they could use with no sp or isk investment, now at least buying the lav puts an isk investment on it and the remotes for JLAV have an sp investment. the other major issue was how low the level of speed for kill on impact was, they fixed that, but you can still murder taxi... I do it all the time in my JLAV on my way to blow your tank up....and in order to blow up your tank I also must travel at a high rate of velocity or hit the tanks sweetspot. the bottom line here is that if you remove the ability to stick remotes on your own lav you kill other types of creative gameplay as well... JLAVs are only one way to use them and not even the most effective. the community has already told you tankers over and over again all the ways to counter this, this includes other tankers...
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3398	Posted - 2014.07.05 14:25:00 - [59] - Quote Whats the problem here? You have to sacrifice your vehicle+clone to destroy a tank. And i barely see this happening in public matches. Stop complaining about a legit tactic. At least they are not sitting on top of a tower with a forgegun.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 315	Posted - 2014.07.05 18:15:00 - [60] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: jihad jeeping is ledgit.. costs isk for the loadout and the jeep so its fair.. if you dotn want to be jihad jeeped, fit a buffer tank no, some people have bpocars and can do it for free not even buying the explosives or suit aswell lies... you have to buy the explosives... sure you could put them on and then switch out to a starter fit or bpo suit, but then you cant detonate them in instances where ramming doesn't blow you up... many times I have had to get out of my lav to manually detonate on a tank. as far as lav bpo's go... if everyone had them you may have the beginings of an argument, but most who play dust now don't have them... even still for, what? 30k isk? I can get a jeep and still blow up a 350k tank....bpo lav's are not that much of an advantage here... I can still make more isk than risk most of the time.... either way I'm still almost sure to die, costing my team a clone. So you admit low risk high reward which goes completwely against the dust way of high risk high reward. How often do games come down to clones? Once every 5... 6 maybe 7 matches. except that isn't the dust way.... a bpo fit can take out a proto fit that's low risk high reward a mlt dropship can ram an ads again low/high fw has no earned isk there you have a situation of high risk low reward... sorry but your ideals of what dust is are imaginary....

Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10196	Posted - 2014.07.05 19:22:00 - [61] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Missed this last time through the thread. Don't see why you'd have to fit a fuel injector, and it seems to me that you're trying to fit a complex mod to the LAV for some reason? Protofits tells me that I can make a Baloch fitting for 21k. A far cry from your 53k figure. Were a veteran player to do it (as a good half the JLAVs are) it'd cost about 2700 ISK. My fit is a Saga-II with a NOS Module. You need the Fuel Injector because it allows you to pick up enough speed to detonate the REs, as opposed to simply "dinging" the HAV. As for why I use the Saga-II, it has a built in Shield Hardener to make it harder to kill from the back. Also, Armored LAVs move far too slow to kill a good tanker. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: You once showed off an Assault mk.0 SL fitting, and I've done the same for a Sentinel ak.0 AFG fitting. For a seventh of the cost of my suit, and a tenth of yours, I can buy from the MLT store an 'AV' method with a higher success rate (i.e. Most of the time. I frequently see Sicas and Somas destroyed by these fitting, as well as more expensive fittings.) You cannot seriously tell me this is appropriate 'risk+reward'? Feel free, though. I'd be happy to copy-paste your words into every MLT HAV balance thread you ever post in ever. So you've made a list of all the times multiple HAV Pilots have died to JLAVs, and then another of all the times multiple HAV Pilots have died to conventional AV Weapons? May I have a look at this data? Do I need to remind you that anecdotal evidence is not valid in balance discussions? Long Live The Anime* Empire* -HAND
4th Lieutenant Tiberius 7	Posted - 2014.07.05 19:34:00 - [62] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: So tankers are now Q_Qing about the only legit AV....good lord. Sadly it's the best anti-tank because it stops all the I win button tankers like Duna from going 50-0 every match....just because it kills you, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. The only legit AV? Are you joking? Do you own a swarm or a forge? If not, GTFO. If so, I hate to say it but go right on and git gud. Actually, I have prof. 2 in forges and most tankers get hit once and run off....then come back to kill you and if they fail they do it over again. And the "giting Gud" needs to be said to tankers. "Oh no! My K/D is in danger! Time to run."tankers are the true scrubs. How is playing a role with the most health, DPS, and speed fair in anyway?and why does it take 2+ people to take out a tank? If its only 1 AVer, then tanks high tail it to the red line....I'm the scrub, indeed........ Considering the second shot kills me running away is generally a good idea. The one and only Lieutenant Tiberius
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2433	Posted - 2014.07.05 19:35:00 - [63] - Quote 4th Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: So tankers are now Q_Qing about the only legit AV....good lord. Sadly it's the best anti-tank because it stops all the I win button tankers like Duna from going 50-0 every match....just because it kills you, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. The only legit AV? Are you joking? Do you own a swarm or a forge? If not, GTFO. If so, I hate to say it but go right on and git gud. Actually, I have prof. 2 in forges and most tankers get hit once and run off....then come back to kill you and if they fail they do it over again. And the "giting Gud" needs to be said to tankers. "Oh no! My K/D is in danger! Time to run."tankers are the true scrubs. How is playing a role with the most health, DPS, and speed fair in anyway?and why does it take 2+ people to take out a tank? If its only 1 AVer, then tanks high tail it to the red line....I'm the scrub, indeed........ Considering the second shot kills me running away is generally a good idea. That moment when you forget your still on an alt. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
lithkul devant Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 269	Posted - 2014.07.06 03:43:00 - [64] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Harpyja wrote: lithkul devant wrote: Jihad Jeeps are a legitmate tactic, this sort of thing has been done since ancient times, and yes they often use the least valuable ship or vehicle they can in order to do this. This would be similar to setting one of your own ships on fire in a naval encounter and having it ram into several other ships or even explode right next to the other ships. This was meant to cause fear and major damage to the enemy, this tactic also was not used typically unless it was obvious that the enemy was going to win or was to powerful to fight conventenially. For in real life, we have mines specifically designed to tank out tanks, these cost roughly 100-200 dollars per mine, now I can assure you a tank costs plenty more then that even a very bad tank, but the point of the matter is in warfare you find ways to supplement your weaknesses. Russia does this all the time against its enemies, Russia used the weather to destroy the armies of Naploean and ****** and that was just them using the environment, no man power involved at all. Murder taxis were also a "legitimate tactic." But infantry cried and cried that it was killing them unfairly so they had CCP "fix" vehicle-infantry collision damage, AKA a nerf. Either give me back my old Charybdis or remove JLAVs. the real problem with murder taxis was everyone had a free lav they could use with no sp or isk investment, now at least buying the lav puts an isk investment on it and the remotes for JLAV have an sp investment. the other major issue was how low the level of speed for kill on impact was, they fixed that, but you can still murder taxi... I do it all the time in my JLAV on my way to blow your tank up....and in order to blow up your tank I also must travel at a high rate of velocity or hit the tanks sweetspot. the bottom line here is that if you remove the ability to stick remotes on your own lav you kill other types of creative gameplay as well... JLAVs are only one way to use them and not even the most effective. the community has already told you tankers over and over again all the ways to counter this, this includes other tankers... I honestly see little to no problem with bringing back the specialty LAV's, since the damage from vehicle impact has been taken down significantly. Though, I would want a few changes to be put upon them, for the added armor/shield protection, each needs to have reduced max speed and/or acceleration, along with them being more geared for a supporting role as has been emphasized in many other threads.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1427	Posted - 2014.07.06 07:15:00 - [65] - Quote danie braz wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Atiim wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions. He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsht that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic. The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep. Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting). 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:* Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping. So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? Missed this last time through the thread. Don't see why you'd have to fit a fuel injector, and it seems to me that you're trying to fit a complex mod to the LAV for some reason? Protofits tells me that I can make a Baloch fitting for 21k. A far cry from your 53k figure. Were a veteran player to do it (as a good half the JLAVs are) it'd cost about 2700 ISK. You once showed off an Assault mk.0 SL fitting, and I've done the same for a Sentinel ak.0 AFG fitting. For a seventh of the cost of my suit, and a tenth of yours, I can buy from the MLT store an 'AV' method with a higher success rate (i.e. Most of the time. I frequently see Sicas and Somas destroyed by these fitting, as well as more expensive fittings.) You cannot seriously tell me this is appropriate 'risk+reward'? Feel free, though. I'd be happy to copy-paste your words into every MLT HAV balance thread you ever post in ever. Incorrect. Dropsuit bpo + exile ar bpo + lav bpo + RE = cost of REs only + switching to starter fit after setting them. I am starting to doubt that there can be a limit to the amount of remotes that can stick to a vehicle so I would just make remotes unable to stick to friendly vehicles. Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 339	Posted - 2014.07.06 13:24:00 - [66] - Quote danie braz wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Atiim wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions. He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsht that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic. The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep. Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting). 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:* Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping. So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? Missed this last time through the thread. Don't see why you'd have to fit a fuel injector, and it seems to me that you're trying to fit a complex mod to the LAV for some reason? Protofits tells me that I can make a Baloch fitting for 21k. A far cry from your 53k figure. Were a veteran player to do it (as a good half the JLAVs are) it'd cost about 2700 ISK. You once showed off an Assault mk.0 SL fitting, and I've done the same for a Sentinel ak.0 AFG fitting. For a seventh of the cost of my suit, and a tenth of yours, I can buy from the MLT store an 'AV' method with a higher success rate (i.e. Most of the time. I frequently see Sicas and Somas destroyed by these fitting, as well as more expensive fittings.) You cannot seriously tell me this is appropriate 'risk+reward'? Feel free, though. I'd be happy to copy-paste your words into every MLT HAV balance thread you ever post in ever. Incorrect. Dropsuit bpo + exile ar bpo + lav bpo + RE = cost of REs only + switching to starter fit after setting them. I am starting to doubt that there can be a limit to the amount of remotes that can stick to a vehicle so I would just make remotes unable to stick to friendly vehicles.[/quote] so I cant put them on my own lav to kill a red that hacks it? no thanks!


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