DUST Search - how to remove/fix jihadd jeeping.

Benjamin Ciscko wrote:

Atiim wrote:

Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:

See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions.

He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsh*t that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic.

The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep.

Don't field what you can't afford to lose.

You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that.

They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting).

2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK
3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK
4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK
5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK

I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt.

As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No?

Then HTFU.

Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:

Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping.

So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? Roll

2 words Faction Warfare
BPO LAV's they exist and then again don't suck
Come on really using that bullsh!t in a proto suit I can take on at least 3 starter fits at once and it's usually dumb luck or me being stupid that I die to one. In a tank theirs no way your taking 3 on at once and a tank + your suit costs 5 times as much as one proto suit in general and killing a tank with a jihad is stupid easy killing a proto suit with an infantry suit is not.
Even the best tankers die to this tactic.


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lithkul devant Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 269	Posted - 2014.07.04 14:18:00 - [1] - Quote Jihad Jeeps are a legitmate tactic, this sort of thing has been done since ancient times, and yes they often use the least valuable ship or vehicle they can in order to do this. This would be similar to setting one of your own ships on fire in a naval encounter and having it ram into several other ships or even explode right next to the other ships. This was meant to cause fear and major damage to the enemy, this tactic also was not used typically unless it was obvious that the enemy was going to win or was to powerful to fight conventenially. For in real life, we have mines specifically designed to tank out tanks, these cost roughly 100-200 dollars per mine, now I can assure you a tank costs plenty more then that even a very bad tank, but the point of the matter is in warfare you find ways to supplement your weaknesses. Russia does this all the time against its enemies, Russia used the weather to destroy the armies of Naploean and ****** and that was just them using the environment, no man power involved at all.
lithkul devant Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 269	Posted - 2014.07.04 14:27:00 - [2] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions. He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsht that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic. The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep. Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting). 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:* Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping. So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? 2 words Faction Warfare BPO LAV's they exist and then again don't suck Come on really using that bullsh!t in a proto suit I can take on at least 3 starter fits at once and it's usually dumb luck or me being stupid that I die to one. In a tank theirs no way your taking 3 on at once and a tank + your suit costs 5 times as much as one proto suit in general and killing a tank with a jihad is stupid easy killing a proto suit with an infantry suit is not. Even the best tankers die to this tactic. Really? Let me pick 2 people of my choice to be in starter fits and see if you can kill all 3 of us, I guarentee you, you will be slaughtered each and every time. Let me just get in a scout suit sneak up on you while I am cloaked and blow your head off with a shotgun, in fact the other day I shotgunned a proto scout in the face while he was cloaked, instant death for him, followed by a flux to make sure that isk was gone for good. I could also kill you using an RE real fast, how about I jump down from above you with a dren HMG pointed at your chest you won't survive for 3 seconds. My point being is that infantry is more about skill and luck then it is about equipment, yes equipment can play a huge role, but it is not the sole determnant within infantry combat. Also, so you know I hunt people using proto suits using starter or under 5k suits all the time, and my K/D is in the positive.
lithkul devant Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 269	Posted - 2014.07.06 03:43:00 - [3] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Harpyja wrote: lithkul devant wrote: Jihad Jeeps are a legitmate tactic, this sort of thing has been done since ancient times, and yes they often use the least valuable ship or vehicle they can in order to do this. This would be similar to setting one of your own ships on fire in a naval encounter and having it ram into several other ships or even explode right next to the other ships. This was meant to cause fear and major damage to the enemy, this tactic also was not used typically unless it was obvious that the enemy was going to win or was to powerful to fight conventenially. For in real life, we have mines specifically designed to tank out tanks, these cost roughly 100-200 dollars per mine, now I can assure you a tank costs plenty more then that even a very bad tank, but the point of the matter is in warfare you find ways to supplement your weaknesses. Russia does this all the time against its enemies, Russia used the weather to destroy the armies of Naploean and ****** and that was just them using the environment, no man power involved at all. Murder taxis were also a "legitimate tactic." But infantry cried and cried that it was killing them unfairly so they had CCP "fix" vehicle-infantry collision damage, AKA a nerf. Either give me back my old Charybdis or remove JLAVs. the real problem with murder taxis was everyone had a free lav they could use with no sp or isk investment, now at least buying the lav puts an isk investment on it and the remotes for JLAV have an sp investment. the other major issue was how low the level of speed for kill on impact was, they fixed that, but you can still murder taxi... I do it all the time in my JLAV on my way to blow your tank up....and in order to blow up your tank I also must travel at a high rate of velocity or hit the tanks sweetspot. the bottom line here is that if you remove the ability to stick remotes on your own lav you kill other types of creative gameplay as well... JLAVs are only one way to use them and not even the most effective. the community has already told you tankers over and over again all the ways to counter this, this includes other tankers... I honestly see little to no problem with bringing back the specialty LAV's, since the damage from vehicle impact has been taken down significantly. Though, I would want a few changes to be put upon them, for the added armor/shield protection, each needs to have reduced max speed and/or acceleration, along with them being more geared for a supporting role as has been emphasized in many other threads.