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Jonny D Buelle
Mors Effera
180
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Posted - 2014.07.03 22:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
I don't think JLAVs should be removed at all.
This is a sandbox (with very little sand) game thats involves risk and reward. I have myself done this type of strategy myself for sh*ts and giggles and I found it to be fun. Yes it CAN be inexpensive to grab a milita suit, throw on some REs get a militia LAV and ram a proto fit tank. But as I stated before, this is a risk and reward game. You risked your 500k+ tank and you lost it.
Yes I am aware that it is the way you lost it that is causing so much QQ over this. But you would be QQing just as hard if I was to use my forge gun to blow you up. "No! Because that is legit AV!" Well so is using REs! And if people want to attach them to an LAV and ram you let them or let them try.
This argument just reminds me too much of a few new players in EVE QQing because their miners got suicide ganked in High-Sec. This **** happens in sandbox games. Much like how someone will come along and tear down your house in Minecraft because they wanted too. Yeah it pissed people off, but it is allowed.
TL;DR Harden up bro and let us keep a little more sand in the sandbox.
Legionhares Unite!
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
3506
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Posted - 2014.07.04 06:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Working as intended.
Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky.
Can you please clarify this rotation bug.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1106
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Posted - 2014.07.04 07:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Working as intended.
Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. Can you please clarify this rotation bug.
There's uncertainty whether the (large) turret specialization skill works or not.
I've been told that it has absolutely zero effect. Personally I don't know.
Today I upped one of my small turret skills and it felt that the rotation got faster.
But that's so hard to measure.
:-S
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MINA Longstrike
964
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Posted - 2014.07.04 09:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Working as intended.
Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. Can you please clarify this rotation bug.
The turret rotation skills literally do not apply to turrets. While we're on the topic of turrets as well, are you aware that *everyone* inside an assault dropship, applies whatever skills they have in said assault dropship to *all* of the turrets? This means that with 3 people who have caldari assault dropships 5 on xt missile turrets, you can spray missiles at a rate of 4 per second.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
977
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Posted - 2014.07.04 10:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:
The turret rotation skills literally do not apply to turrets. While we're on the topic of turrets as well, are you aware that *everyone* inside an assault dropship, applies whatever skills they have in said assault dropship to *all* of the turrets? This means that with 3 people who have caldari assault dropships 5 on xt missile turrets, you can spray missiles at a rate of 4 per second.
That's incorrect. It's actually only the pilot and the person using each individual turret.
For example.
Pilot with python 5. 50% RoF increase.
Gunner 1 with python 3. 80% RoF increase.
Gunner 2 with python 0. 50% RoF increase.
The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
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AmlSeb
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
100
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Posted - 2014.07.04 11:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Get a good gunner to watch out for you
First day veteran
EVE Design Law §1: Either Range or DPS
AmlSeb on Twitter
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AmlSeb
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
100
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Posted - 2014.07.04 11:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
Seriously, If collision damage is fixed no LAV explodes and thus no REs explode = fixed
First day veteran
EVE Design Law §1: Either Range or DPS
AmlSeb on Twitter
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Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
282
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Posted - 2014.07.04 11:14:00 -
[38] - Quote
How about this bug you drive lac turret always faces forward.You switch to the turret now its facing another direction |
Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3978
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Posted - 2014.07.04 12:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions.
He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsh*t that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic.
The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep.
Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting).
- 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK
- 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK
- 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK
- 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK
I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping.
So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? 
Missed this last time through the thread.
Don't see why you'd have to fit a fuel injector, and it seems to me that you're trying to fit a complex mod to the LAV for some reason?
Protofits tells me that I can make a Baloch fitting for 21k. A far cry from your 53k figure.
Were a veteran player to do it (as a good half the JLAVs are) it'd cost about 2700 ISK.
You once showed off an Assault mk.0 SL fitting, and I've done the same for a Sentinel ak.0 AFG fitting. For a seventh of the cost of my suit, and a tenth of yours, I can buy from the MLT store an 'AV' method with a higher success rate (i.e. Most of the time. I frequently see Sicas and Somas destroyed by these fitting, as well as more expensive fittings.)
You cannot seriously tell me this is appropriate 'risk+reward'?
Feel free, though. I'd be happy to copy-paste your words into every MLT HAV balance thread you ever post in ever.
CCP Rattati Best Dev
AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
CalLogi, you're next!
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3978
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Posted - 2014.07.04 12:09:00 -
[40] - Quote
Luther Mandrix wrote:How about this bug you drive lav turret always faces forward.You switch to the turret now its facing another direction
Not a bug. The turret is always facing the same cardinal direction. If your turret is facing the northern edge of the map, if you switch seats it'll appear as if it's in line with your LAV, but then if you switch back it returns to the angle you had it at before. It's a nice feature and it helps with pre-aiming the slowly-rotating turrets.
CCP Rattati Best Dev
AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
CalLogi, you're next!
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TechMechMeds
Inner.Hell
3769
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Posted - 2014.07.04 13:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
Luther Mandrix wrote:How about this bug you drive lav turret always faces forward.You switch to the turret now its facing another direction
That is so annoying.
Just like every other Englishmen, I bath in tea, have no teeth and live in a castle.
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lithkul devant
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
269
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Posted - 2014.07.04 14:18:00 -
[42] - Quote
Jihad Jeeps are a legitmate tactic, this sort of thing has been done since ancient times, and yes they often use the least valuable ship or vehicle they can in order to do this. This would be similar to setting one of your own ships on fire in a naval encounter and having it ram into several other ships or even explode right next to the other ships. This was meant to cause fear and major damage to the enemy, this tactic also was not used typically unless it was obvious that the enemy was going to win or was to powerful to fight conventenially.
For in real life, we have mines specifically designed to tank out tanks, these cost roughly 100-200 dollars per mine, now I can assure you a tank costs plenty more then that even a very bad tank, but the point of the matter is in warfare you find ways to supplement your weaknesses. Russia does this all the time against its enemies, Russia used the weather to destroy the armies of Naploean and ****** and that was just them using the environment, no man power involved at all. |
lithkul devant
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
269
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Posted - 2014.07.04 14:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Atiim wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions.
He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsh*t that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic.
The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep.
Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting).
- 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK
- 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK
- 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK
- 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK
I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping.
So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? 2 words Faction Warfare BPO LAV's they exist and then again don't suck Come on really using that bullsh!t in a proto suit I can take on at least 3 starter fits at once and it's usually dumb luck or me being stupid that I die to one. In a tank theirs no way your taking 3 on at once and a tank + your suit costs 5 times as much as one proto suit in general and killing a tank with a jihad is stupid easy killing a proto suit with an infantry suit is not. Even the best tankers die to this tactic.
Really? Let me pick 2 people of my choice to be in starter fits and see if you can kill all 3 of us, I guarentee you, you will be slaughtered each and every time. Let me just get in a scout suit sneak up on you while I am cloaked and blow your head off with a shotgun, in fact the other day I shotgunned a proto scout in the face while he was cloaked, instant death for him, followed by a flux to make sure that isk was gone for good. I could also kill you using an RE real fast, how about I jump down from above you with a dren HMG pointed at your chest you won't survive for 3 seconds. My point being is that infantry is more about skill and luck then it is about equipment, yes equipment can play a huge role, but it is not the sole determnant within infantry combat. Also, so you know I hunt people using proto suits using starter or under 5k suits all the time, and my K/D is in the positive. |
trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
173
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Posted - 2014.07.04 15:25:00 -
[44] - Quote
lithkul devant wrote:[quote=Benjamin Ciscko][quote=Atiim][quote=Lorhak Gannarsein]Also, so you know I hunt people using proto suits using starter or under 5k suits all the time, and my K/D is in the positive.
You also tank. Point negated.
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
188
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Posted - 2014.07.04 17:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ratattati:
Large turret speed rotation bug:
Skill: turret operation - large turret operation - (blaster missile railgun) operation - *(blaster missile railgun) proficiency*
proficiency description:
Advanced sill at operating large (any) turrets.
+10% to large (any) rotation speed per level
in reality you get 0% bonus to rotation speed per level making an sp sink and makes proto turrets rotate at the same speed as militia |
Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
189
|
Posted - 2014.07.04 17:45:00 -
[46] - Quote
ps. The militia railguns' overheat mechanic is broken as it gets off 2 more shots without overheat than all the other railguns. |
danie braz
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
52
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Posted - 2014.07.04 18:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Atiim wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions.
He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsh*t that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic.
The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep.
Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting).
- 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK
- 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK
- 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK
- 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK
I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping.
So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? Missed this last time through the thread. Don't see why you'd have to fit a fuel injector, and it seems to me that you're trying to fit a complex mod to the LAV for some reason? Protofits tells me that I can make a Baloch fitting for 21k. A far cry from your 53k figure. Were a veteran player to do it (as a good half the JLAVs are) it'd cost about 2700 ISK. You once showed off an Assault mk.0 SL fitting, and I've done the same for a Sentinel ak.0 AFG fitting. For a seventh of the cost of my suit, and a tenth of yours, I can buy from the MLT store an 'AV' method with a higher success rate (i.e. Most of the time. I frequently see Sicas and Somas destroyed by these fitting, as well as more expensive fittings.) You cannot seriously tell me this is appropriate 'risk+reward'? Feel free, though. I'd be happy to copy-paste your words into every MLT HAV balance thread you ever post in ever.
Incorrect. Dropsuit bpo + exile ar bpo + lav bpo + RE = cost of REs only
Fluoride uranium carbon potassium bismuth technetium helium sulfur germanium thulium Molybdenum neon yttrium
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Mauren NOON
The Exemplars
Top Men.
340
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Posted - 2014.07.04 18:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Mauren NOON wrote:So tankers are now Q_Qing about the only legit AV....good lord. Sadly it's the best anti-tank because it stops all the I win button tankers like Duna from going 50-0 every match....just because it kills you, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. The only legit AV? Are you joking? Do you own a swarm or a forge? If not, GTFO. If so, I hate to say it but go right on and git gud.
Actually, I have prof. 2 in forges and most tankers get hit once and run off....then come back to kill you and if they fail they do it over again. And the "giting Gud" needs to be said to tankers. "Oh no! My K/D is in danger! Time to run."tankers are the true scrubs. How is playing a role with the most health, DPS, and speed fair in anyway?and why does it take 2+ people to take out a tank? If its only 1 AVer, then tanks high tail it to the red line....I'm the scrub, indeed........
Scr and commando enthusiast.
A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life...
"The only thing to fear is fear itself"
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Seymour KrelbornX
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
295
|
Posted - 2014.07.04 19:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Working as intended.
Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. Can you please clarify this rotation bug.
lol it never ceases to amaze me how random ccp's interest is in bugs... had the sprint bug since forever, but no fix, but omg! turret rotation!.....meh.... |
Zindorak
CaUsE-4-CoNcErN
40
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Posted - 2014.07.04 19:43:00 -
[50] - Quote
Mauren NOON wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Mauren NOON wrote:So tankers are now Q_Qing about the only legit AV....good lord. Sadly it's the best anti-tank because it stops all the I win button tankers like Duna from going 50-0 every match....just because it kills you, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. The only legit AV? Are you joking? Do you own a swarm or a forge? If not, GTFO. If so, I hate to say it but go right on and git gud. Actually, I have prof. 2 in forges and most tankers get hit once and run off....then come back to kill you and if they fail they do it over again. And the "giting Gud" needs to be said to tankers. "Oh no! My K/D is in danger! Time to run."tankers are the true scrubs. How is playing a role with the most health, DPS, and speed fair in anyway?and why does it take 2+ people to take out a tank? If its only 1 AVer, then tanks high tail it to the red line....I'm the scrub, indeed........
This is true tankers are the true scrubs except for some tankers. They just run off and spam hardeners once they are hit and come back with full hp. you tankers just want to have the easieast possible time in a match. Deal with JLAV just like we did with tanks |
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Lynn Beck
Fooly Cooly.
Anime Empire.
1999
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Posted - 2014.07.04 21:13:00 -
[51] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Working as intended.
Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. It's a free kill essentially. What you're saying is very much like me saying 'fit an afterburner. Only the worst of the worst get knocked out of the sky by Gorgons/RDVs with those fitted'. Which is clearly not the case. It is incredibly easy to be killed by a Jihad Jeep. Frequently it's because multiple persons use them, or because I'm dealing with an AV threat, or because I'm fighting a tank, or whatever. I have zero issues with being killed. I have a serious problem with being killed by a zero-skill zero-ISK 'tactic' such as this, in a similar vein to my being practically insta-killed by tower swarms outside render range back in 1.6 and prior.
Didn't they nerf damage on remotes?
It should take a full set of F/45 remotes to kill one.
Or, fit a Plate on thst Soma.
General John Ripper
-BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse.
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
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jaksol exendent
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.07.05 05:33:00 -
[52] - Quote
Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:remove the abillty for remote explosives to be fitted to friendly/allied controlled vehicles.
however they should still be allowed to be attached to enemy vehicles via placement.
sure they can steal a red lav and put the explosives on it but then they run the risk of them being destroyed by the opssosing team. so that team loses a vehicle asset that the owner had while the ''stealer'' dies in the process
aditinally swaping out of the explosive suit causes the current placed explsovies to cease function and not be detonated when destroyed by the enemy.
any other ideas or thoughts to AT least make jihadding have risk/isk investment and loss or gain.
its a valade tactic and this is coming from tanker i just think is should cost more to do
ps i havent been jihaded in weeks players seem to have goten tired of them |
jaksol exendent
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.07.05 05:34:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Working as intended.
Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. Can you please clarify this rotation bug.
do you also know about the turning bug were you pull the turning joystick to the right and you turn to the left instead and vice versa? |
Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
4032
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 11:21:00 -
[54] - Quote
danie braz wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Atiim wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions.
He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsh*t that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic.
The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep.
Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting).
- 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK
- 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK
- 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK
- 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK
I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping.
So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? Missed this last time through the thread. Don't see why you'd have to fit a fuel injector, and it seems to me that you're trying to fit a complex mod to the LAV for some reason? Protofits tells me that I can make a Baloch fitting for 21k. A far cry from your 53k figure. Were a veteran player to do it (as a good half the JLAVs are) it'd cost about 2700 ISK. You once showed off an Assault mk.0 SL fitting, and I've done the same for a Sentinel ak.0 AFG fitting. For a seventh of the cost of my suit, and a tenth of yours, I can buy from the MLT store an 'AV' method with a higher success rate (i.e. Most of the time. I frequently see Sicas and Somas destroyed by these fitting, as well as more expensive fittings.) You cannot seriously tell me this is appropriate 'risk+reward'? Feel free, though. I'd be happy to copy-paste your words into every MLT HAV balance thread you ever post in ever. Incorrect. Dropsuit bpo + exile ar bpo + lav bpo + RE = cost of REs only
We're assuming this person has no BPOs. So presumably they fit a suit and switch at the supply depot - a Basic Light would do the trick.
Basically the only thing they're paying for is the car, and a fuel inj. if they're so inclined.
CCP Rattati Best Dev
AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
CalLogi, you're next!
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
4032
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 11:23:00 -
[55] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Working as intended.
Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. It's a free kill essentially. What you're saying is very much like me saying 'fit an afterburner. Only the worst of the worst get knocked out of the sky by Gorgons/RDVs with those fitted'. Which is clearly not the case. It is incredibly easy to be killed by a Jihad Jeep. Frequently it's because multiple persons use them, or because I'm dealing with an AV threat, or because I'm fighting a tank, or whatever. I have zero issues with being killed. I have a serious problem with being killed by a zero-skill zero-ISK 'tactic' such as this, in a similar vein to my being practically insta-killed by tower swarms outside render range back in 1.6 and prior. Didn't they nerf damage on remotes? It should take a full set of F/45 remotes to kill one. Or, fit a Plate on thst Soma.
It still takes a full set of F/45s (which weren't nerfed).
I have no problem with them being placed - I've advocated increased damage when placed on the hull, in fact. I have no issues with REs as AV, strictly speaking. I have no issues with REs as AI, not anymore (though it still makes me mad when I see people using them as their primary weapon.)
All my issues with REs stem directly from them being placed on LAVs.
CCP Rattati Best Dev
AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
CalLogi, you're next!
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
4032
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 11:24:00 -
[56] - Quote
Mauren NOON wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Mauren NOON wrote:So tankers are now Q_Qing about the only legit AV....good lord. Sadly it's the best anti-tank because it stops all the I win button tankers like Duna from going 50-0 every match....just because it kills you, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. The only legit AV? Are you joking? Do you own a swarm or a forge? If not, GTFO. If so, I hate to say it but go right on and git gud. Actually, I have prof. 2 in forges and most tankers get hit once and run off....then come back to kill you and if they fail they do it over again. And the "giting Gud" needs to be said to tankers. "Oh no! My K/D is in danger! Time to run."tankers are the true scrubs. How is playing a role with the most health, DPS, and speed fair in anyway?and why does it take 2+ people to take out a tank? If its only 1 AVer, then tanks high tail it to the red line....I'm the scrub, indeed........
Congrats, you've invested SP! Now do the other half.
Not hard to kill a tank with a forge.
CCP Rattati Best Dev
AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
CalLogi, you're next!
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1998
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Posted - 2014.07.05 13:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
lithkul devant wrote:Jihad Jeeps are a legitmate tactic, this sort of thing has been done since ancient times, and yes they often use the least valuable ship or vehicle they can in order to do this. This would be similar to setting one of your own ships on fire in a naval encounter and having it ram into several other ships or even explode right next to the other ships. This was meant to cause fear and major damage to the enemy, this tactic also was not used typically unless it was obvious that the enemy was going to win or was to powerful to fight conventenially.
For in real life, we have mines specifically designed to tank out tanks, these cost roughly 100-200 dollars per mine, now I can assure you a tank costs plenty more then that even a very bad tank, but the point of the matter is in warfare you find ways to supplement your weaknesses. Russia does this all the time against its enemies, Russia used the weather to destroy the armies of Naploean and ****** and that was just them using the environment, no man power involved at all.
Murder taxis were also a "legitimate tactic." But infantry cried and cried that it was killing them unfairly so they had CCP "fix" vehicle-infantry collision damage, AKA a nerf.
Either give me back my old Charybdis or remove JLAVs.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
--
"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Seymour KrelbornX
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
308
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Posted - 2014.07.05 13:26:00 -
[58] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:lithkul devant wrote:Jihad Jeeps are a legitmate tactic, this sort of thing has been done since ancient times, and yes they often use the least valuable ship or vehicle they can in order to do this. This would be similar to setting one of your own ships on fire in a naval encounter and having it ram into several other ships or even explode right next to the other ships. This was meant to cause fear and major damage to the enemy, this tactic also was not used typically unless it was obvious that the enemy was going to win or was to powerful to fight conventenially.
For in real life, we have mines specifically designed to tank out tanks, these cost roughly 100-200 dollars per mine, now I can assure you a tank costs plenty more then that even a very bad tank, but the point of the matter is in warfare you find ways to supplement your weaknesses. Russia does this all the time against its enemies, Russia used the weather to destroy the armies of Naploean and ****** and that was just them using the environment, no man power involved at all. Murder taxis were also a "legitimate tactic." But infantry cried and cried that it was killing them unfairly so they had CCP "fix" vehicle-infantry collision damage, AKA a nerf. Either give me back my old Charybdis or remove JLAVs.
the real problem with murder taxis was everyone had a free lav they could use with no sp or isk investment, now at least buying the lav puts an isk investment on it and the remotes for JLAV have an sp investment.
the other major issue was how low the level of speed for kill on impact was, they fixed that, but you can still murder taxi...
I do it all the time in my JLAV on my way to blow your tank up....and in order to blow up your tank I also must travel at a high rate of velocity or hit the tanks sweetspot.
the bottom line here is that if you remove the ability to stick remotes on your own lav you kill other types of creative gameplay as well... JLAVs are only one way to use them and not even the most effective.
the community has already told you tankers over and over again all the ways to counter this, this includes other tankers...
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3398
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Posted - 2014.07.05 14:25:00 -
[59] - Quote
Whats the problem here? You have to sacrifice your vehicle+clone to destroy a tank. And i barely see this happening in public matches. Stop complaining about a legit tactic. At least they are not sitting on top of a tower with a forgegun. |
Seymour KrelbornX
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
315
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Posted - 2014.07.05 18:15:00 -
[60] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Seymour KrelbornX wrote:Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:jihad jeeping is ledgit.. costs isk for the loadout and the jeep so its fair.. if you dotn want to be jihad jeeped, fit a buffer tank no, some people have bpocars and can do it for free not even buying the explosives or suit aswell lies... you have to buy the explosives... sure you could put them on and then switch out to a starter fit or bpo suit, but then you cant detonate them in instances where ramming doesn't blow you up... many times I have had to get out of my lav to manually detonate on a tank. as far as lav bpo's go... if everyone had them you may have the beginings of an argument, but most who play dust now don't have them... even still for, what? 30k isk? I can get a jeep and still blow up a 350k tank....bpo lav's are not that much of an advantage here... I can still make more isk than risk most of the time.... either way I'm still almost sure to die, costing my team a clone. So you admit low risk high reward which goes completwely against the dust way of high risk high reward. How often do games come down to clones? Once every 5... 6 maybe 7 matches.
except that isn't the dust way.... a bpo fit can take out a proto fit that's low risk high reward
a mlt dropship can ram an ads again low/high
fw has no earned isk there you have a situation of high risk low reward...
sorry but your ideals of what dust is are imaginary.... |
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