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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3939
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Posted - 2014.07.03 16:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Working as intended.
Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky.
It's a free kill essentially.
What you're saying is very much like me saying 'fit an afterburner. Only the worst of the worst get knocked out of the sky by Gorgons/RDVs with those fitted'. Which is clearly not the case.
It is incredibly easy to be killed by a Jihad Jeep.
Frequently it's because multiple persons use them, or because I'm dealing with an AV threat, or because I'm fighting a tank, or whatever.
I have zero issues with being killed. I have a serious problem with being killed by a zero-skill zero-ISK 'tactic' such as this, in a similar vein to my being practically insta-killed by tower swarms outside render range back in 1.6 and prior.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3939
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 16:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
pa ck wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Why remove Jihadd Jeeps? I ran tanks for over a month (as in I did nothing but tanking in that time) and I only got taken out by Jihadd Jeeps 3 or 4 times. I probably killed 15 to 20 of them in that time, but only 3 or 4 of them managed to get me. The splash damage from one hit will set off the Remotes and detonate the LAV before it gets to you. Besides, getting taken out by a Jehadd Jeep always seemed to make me laugh.  See this guy gets it now stop crying
See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions.
He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsh*t that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic.
The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3941
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 17:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mauren NOON wrote:So tankers are now Q_Qing about the only legit AV....good lord. Sadly it's the best anti-tank because it stops all the I win button tankers like Duna from going 50-0 every match....just because it kills you, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed.
The only legit AV?
Are you joking?
Do you own a swarm or a forge?
If not, GTFO. If so, I hate to say it but go right on and git gud.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3978
|
Posted - 2014.07.04 12:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions.
He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsh*t that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic.
The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep.
Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting).
- 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK
- 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK
- 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK
- 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK
I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping.
So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? 
Missed this last time through the thread.
Don't see why you'd have to fit a fuel injector, and it seems to me that you're trying to fit a complex mod to the LAV for some reason?
Protofits tells me that I can make a Baloch fitting for 21k. A far cry from your 53k figure.
Were a veteran player to do it (as a good half the JLAVs are) it'd cost about 2700 ISK.
You once showed off an Assault mk.0 SL fitting, and I've done the same for a Sentinel ak.0 AFG fitting. For a seventh of the cost of my suit, and a tenth of yours, I can buy from the MLT store an 'AV' method with a higher success rate (i.e. Most of the time. I frequently see Sicas and Somas destroyed by these fitting, as well as more expensive fittings.)
You cannot seriously tell me this is appropriate 'risk+reward'?
Feel free, though. I'd be happy to copy-paste your words into every MLT HAV balance thread you ever post in ever.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3978
|
Posted - 2014.07.04 12:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Luther Mandrix wrote:How about this bug you drive lav turret always faces forward.You switch to the turret now its facing another direction
Not a bug. The turret is always facing the same cardinal direction. If your turret is facing the northern edge of the map, if you switch seats it'll appear as if it's in line with your LAV, but then if you switch back it returns to the angle you had it at before. It's a nice feature and it helps with pre-aiming the slowly-rotating turrets.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
4032
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 11:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
danie braz wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Atiim wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
See, I have a lot of respect for Fox's opinions.
He's never invested more than 500k in a fitting. It is absolutely bullsh*t that my enormous investment (often including a full-proto AFG fitting inside for continued AV) can be instantly destroyed by a zero investment tactic.
The terror involved in combating JJ is vast, far higher than the fear involved with fighting even multiple AFGs, simply because of the fact that the JJ by definition does not care about dying. They lose nothing upon death. Their investment is not lost. There is no incentive to give up. At no point is a Jihad Jeep better off quitting, because there is no investment in a Jihad Jeep.
Don't field what you can't afford to lose. You still need to reasonably invest into the Remote Explosives to use Jihad Jeeps, as the STD ones have a Max. Active of 3 and only deal 1250HP. That's 3000HP against a Shield Tank, so any well-fitted Gunnlogi will survive that. They have to pay for the LAV every time, and assuming you've got a Fuel Injector on it (like most JLAVs), your looking at a grand total of 53,610 ISK each attempt (the price of an ADV Dropsuit Fitting).
- 2 Attempts = 107,220 ISK
- 3 Attempts = 160,830 ISK
- 4 Attempts = 214,440 ISK
- 5 Attempts = 268,050 ISK
I'd say that with JLAVs, your better off quitting at around the 2nd-3rd attempt. As for you being killed by something with 0 SP investment, do you see Infantry complaining every time someone in a BPO or Starter Fit kills them? No? Then HTFU. Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:
Our complaints are specifically about the zero-ISK, high-success rate, zero-skill strategy that is Jihad Jeeping.
So basically your complaints are about something non-existent? Missed this last time through the thread. Don't see why you'd have to fit a fuel injector, and it seems to me that you're trying to fit a complex mod to the LAV for some reason? Protofits tells me that I can make a Baloch fitting for 21k. A far cry from your 53k figure. Were a veteran player to do it (as a good half the JLAVs are) it'd cost about 2700 ISK. You once showed off an Assault mk.0 SL fitting, and I've done the same for a Sentinel ak.0 AFG fitting. For a seventh of the cost of my suit, and a tenth of yours, I can buy from the MLT store an 'AV' method with a higher success rate (i.e. Most of the time. I frequently see Sicas and Somas destroyed by these fitting, as well as more expensive fittings.) You cannot seriously tell me this is appropriate 'risk+reward'? Feel free, though. I'd be happy to copy-paste your words into every MLT HAV balance thread you ever post in ever. Incorrect. Dropsuit bpo + exile ar bpo + lav bpo + RE = cost of REs only
We're assuming this person has no BPOs. So presumably they fit a suit and switch at the supply depot - a Basic Light would do the trick.
Basically the only thing they're paying for is the car, and a fuel inj. if they're so inclined.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
4032
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 11:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Working as intended.
Just fix the damn bug on the large turret rotation skill. If that were applying properly, only the worst of the worst would die to this outside of just getting unlucky. It's a free kill essentially. What you're saying is very much like me saying 'fit an afterburner. Only the worst of the worst get knocked out of the sky by Gorgons/RDVs with those fitted'. Which is clearly not the case. It is incredibly easy to be killed by a Jihad Jeep. Frequently it's because multiple persons use them, or because I'm dealing with an AV threat, or because I'm fighting a tank, or whatever. I have zero issues with being killed. I have a serious problem with being killed by a zero-skill zero-ISK 'tactic' such as this, in a similar vein to my being practically insta-killed by tower swarms outside render range back in 1.6 and prior. Didn't they nerf damage on remotes? It should take a full set of F/45 remotes to kill one. Or, fit a Plate on thst Soma.
It still takes a full set of F/45s (which weren't nerfed).
I have no problem with them being placed - I've advocated increased damage when placed on the hull, in fact. I have no issues with REs as AV, strictly speaking. I have no issues with REs as AI, not anymore (though it still makes me mad when I see people using them as their primary weapon.)
All my issues with REs stem directly from them being placed on LAVs.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
4032
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 11:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mauren NOON wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Mauren NOON wrote:So tankers are now Q_Qing about the only legit AV....good lord. Sadly it's the best anti-tank because it stops all the I win button tankers like Duna from going 50-0 every match....just because it kills you, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. The only legit AV? Are you joking? Do you own a swarm or a forge? If not, GTFO. If so, I hate to say it but go right on and git gud. Actually, I have prof. 2 in forges and most tankers get hit once and run off....then come back to kill you and if they fail they do it over again. And the "giting Gud" needs to be said to tankers. "Oh no! My K/D is in danger! Time to run."tankers are the true scrubs. How is playing a role with the most health, DPS, and speed fair in anyway?and why does it take 2+ people to take out a tank? If its only 1 AVer, then tanks high tail it to the red line....I'm the scrub, indeed........
Congrats, you've invested SP! Now do the other half.
Not hard to kill a tank with a forge.
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